Quick Grades: Spurs @ Grizzlies - Jan. 11

[timvp]

Tim Duncan C
Defended well for the most part. Great rebounding-wise and guarding rim. Struggled shooting. Too sloppy.

Manu Ginobili B-
Shot well from deep. Fantastic on the boards. Needs to be a bit more precise. Invisible down the stretch.

Tony Parker B
Poor job running the show in the first half. Bounced back after halftime. Pouring in points kept the Spurs afloat.

Kawhi Leonard C-
The effort was there but results lacking against Gay. Offensively, he was totally out of whack.

Danny Green C
Played decently enough early -- even made plays below the three-point line -- but missed crucial shots.

Tiago Splitter A-
Exhibited great physicality. Post defense was wonderful. Very efficient offensively; passed well. Lacked boards.

Boris Diaw B-
D was average. Rebounding was poor. Too spastic on offense; passing was good but he has to limit mistakes.

Stephen Jackson B-
Quiet during his 19 minutes -- not much good or bad. Hit a big shot late. Passing on the move remains an issue.

Gary Neal C
Inattentive defense. Poor ballhandling. Didn't get the team into its offense. That said, his opportunity was limited.

Patrick Mills B+
Very good energy, especially on D. Hit the ground running and played hard.

Matt Bonner D+
Extremely hesitant on O; even passed up an open layup. Nothing too special on D and his boxing out was iffy.

Pop C+
Backup point guard is a mess. Consistency of rotation is lacking. Team responded to whatever he said at half.

[Sean Cagney]

Backup PG a MESS! I agree it is a MESS....... Rotation is lacking too, wtf he has had the same guys coming back from last year VP! Lets hope he gets it together soon and figures some rotations out! Green should not have been in there late or in OT, PERIOD.

[polandprzem]

Spurs playing worse and worse, soon hey will b e 5th in the conference and that really not a good position to go into the playoffs

[Richie]

I still don't understand why Tiago doesn't get more touches.

It's the same with Timmy but to a lesser extent. Even when they are having great games offensively, the ballhandler stops going to them, especially Tiago in the pick and roll

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dont give a shit if gary neals minutes were limited this game, but a fkn C? dude deserves a F

[TDMVPDPOY]

[QUOTE=Richie;6293444]I still don't understand why Tiago doesn't get more touches.

/QUOTE]

touches as in PNR? then i approve of this

but when he starts to go low posts is the problem, usually ends up with some lame hookshot or too many pumpfakes with the missed up and under

[crc21209]

I don't know if Neal's calf is really, really affecting his play, but I've seen enough from him. Defenders crowd him and teams bring double teams because they know he can't dribble worth a damn. I wouldn't mind seeing Mills take his minutes for now....

[TJastal]

[QUOTE=Richie;6293444]I still don't understand why Tiago doesn't get more touches.

/QUOTE]

touches as in PNR? then i approve of this

but when he starts to go low posts is the problem, usually ends up with some lame hookshot or too many pumpfakes with the missed up and under

Splitter is way too passive and unsure of himself in the post, which I believe is his main problem. So many times I've seen him recieve an entry pass with room to get off a quick shot or make a quick step/move where the only outcomes would be a made basket at best or contact and a possible/probable foul at worst. He literally sometimes will recieve a pass and actually wait to feel a defender come to his hip before initiating any move.. he has a total lack of confidence in himself. I'm sure it has a little to do with his skillset being somewhat inadequate for the nba level, but part of it is also on Pop IMHO.

[HI-FI]

the biggest culprits, imo, would be Duncan's shitty game, the homecooking, and Parker going heroball during a few key possessions, but that's per par with him. I'm not even mad at Timmy, I never can get angry with him. I just hope he's alright physically. The game was close enough despite this that a few bad calls tilted the balance.

I'm not too pissed, and normally I'm not even super invested at this point in the season. I think the biggest issue is the ongoing one about backup PGs, issues with bigs. Hopefully the organization has something brewing in the background. I imagine the logjam at PG has created some unrest over whose going to be on the chopping block.

[freetiago]

If splitter tries to dunk it he gets blocked 90% of the time
but you wankers still think he should finish palms down or whatever the fuk you say
even got blocked by rudy gay going for a open dunk but powered it threw

splitter is top 15 in the nba in field goal percentage and only 4 guys score about 10 pts or more at 58% from the field
chandler howard and deandre jordan
his finishing is fine but he does blow some layups
if what he did was so easy then every big in the nba would do it

the past few loses have been on timmy d
been throwing a lot of careless passes and has trouble finishing at the rim as well as midrange
he is the true key to the offense
without his versatility the spurs offense would be an average one
SA could still function without parker but Tim no

[TJastal]

If splitter tries to dunk it he gets blocked 90% of the time
but you wankers still think he should finish palms down or whatever the fuk you say
even got blocked by rudy gay going for a open dunk but powered it threw

splitter is top 15 in the nba in field goal percentage and only 4 guys score about 10 pts or more at 58% from the field
chandler howard and deandre jordan
his finishing is fine but he does blow some layups
if what he did was so easy then every big in the nba would do it

One thing I've noticed and I'll give Splitter credit for is he seems to have compensated for the nba's length and shotblocking by becoming more lethal at using the basket as a shield and always going to the opposite side for dink shots off the glass, that seems to be his preferred move nowadays. The thing I would like him start doing more of however is taking any opening given and going strong to the rim and in the process forcing contact even if he gets blocked occassionally. I wouldn't have said this last year when his FT shooting was abysmal, but now that he's adequate he should try to take advantage.

[freetiago]

He still doesnt get much respect from the refs where hes comfortable taking contact when he knows there will be no foul tbh
he shouldnt have fouled out of todays game
randolph was the one pushing him and he was picking up fouls

ive watched the lakers play and howard gets a lot of weakass fouls that splitter can never dream of getting

[crc21209]

Even though tonight's loss really stings, the other Top 3 teams in the West besides the Spurs have some pretty tough games coming up this month:

OKC FINALLY goes on a long road trip of 6 games and have 8 of their next 10 on the road. They have some pretty tough games including 1 against the Clippers, 1 against the Warriors, 2 against the Nuggets, and 1 against Memphis.

The Clippers also have a tough schedule with the exception of playing games against Orlando and Washington. They have a 3 game road trip @ Memphis, Houston, and Minnesota. They also play @ Golden State and then the next night at home against OKC. Then they have Portland twice as well...

The Grizzlies play Dallas tomorrow night, then home against the Clippers on Monday night before the re-match with the Spurs on Wednesday. Then they play Chicago, Indiana, the Lakers, Nets, Hornets, 76ers, and @ the Thunder. Not an easy schedule that's for sure...

[TJastal]

He still doesnt get much respect from the refs where hes comfortable taking contact when he knows there will be no foul tbh
he shouldnt have fouled out of todays game
randolph was the one pushing him and he was picking up fouls

ive watched the lakers play and howard gets a lot of weakass fouls that splitter can never dream of getting

I didn't see last night's game but I saw the box and the 6 fouls and I suspected some shenanigans from the nba's PC crew.

[polandprzem]

If splitter tries to dunk it he gets blocked 90% of the time
but you wankers still think he should finish palms down or whatever the fuk you say
even got blocked by rudy gay going for a open dunk but powered it threw

splitter is top 15 in the nba in field goal percentage and only 4 guys score about 10 pts or more at 58% from the field
chandler howard and deandre jordan
his finishing is fine but he does blow some layups
if what he did was so easy then every big in the nba would do it

the past few loses have been on timmy d
been throwing a lot of careless passes and has trouble finishing at the rim as well as midrange
he is the true key to the offense
without his versatility the spurs offense would be an average one
SA could still function without parker but Tim no

:clap

[biskvito]

I still don't understand why Tiago doesn't get more touches.
Tiago's offense relies a lot on playmaking. In this game his offense really shined when Boris Diaw was actively seeking Tiago with great passes. Parker and Ginobili are better scorers than passers. That's why I think the Spurs is not the best place for Splitter and he should definitely consider teams with natural playmakers.

[TJastal]

Tiago's offense relies a lot on playmaking. In this game his offense really shined when Boris Diaw was actively seeking Tiago with great passes. Parker and Ginobili are better scorers than passers. That's why I think the Spurs is not the best place for Splitter and he should definitely consider teams with natural playmakers..

Manu not a playmaker? Umm.... don't think I'm quite agreeing. Aren't the spurs leading the entire league in assists right now with Parker and Ginobili as the two main playmakers?

[biskvito]

[QUOTE=TJastal;6293496]

they are able to create, but it's not their main thing, that's what I meant for natural playmakers...

Parker is 9th and Ginobili is 40th in assists:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Assists.jsp

[Mouth is Bleeding]

With no spacing, forced to pass where it's packed (which is the adjustment teams are making now and will continue to do against the Spurs) turnovers keep piling up and the offense overall is getting worse and worse. Spurs NEEDS to be a top 3 offense. At this rate we won't even be top 5 for much longer. Spurs are slowly but surely going away from what made the team most dangerous.

Then throw in that Timmy looks like he is ailing some and this is the worst level this team has been at for a long time.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

they are able to create, but it's not their main thing, that's what I meant for natural playmerkers...

Parker is 9th and Ginobili is 40th in assists:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Assists.jsp

That doesn't say anything. Manu is still the top playmaking SG and the biggest strength of the team is the overall passing/playmaking combined with outside shooting. Not many teams can fill the floor with better combos at that.

Only Spurs are now shooting themselves in the foot by slowly but surely going away from their strengths.

Luckily the pieces are still there and I almost expect Pop to find the best adjustments.

[Paranoid Pop]

With no spacing, forced to pass where it's packed (which is the adjustment teams are making now and will continue to do against the Spurs) turnovers keep piling up and the offense overall is getting worse and worse. Spurs NEEDS to be a top 3 offense. At this rate we won't even be top 5 for much longer. Spurs are slowly but surely going away from what made the team most dangerous.

Then throw in that Timmy looks like he is ailing some and this is the worst level this team has been at for a long time.

I agree with that too, the team lost its edge with Tiago at PF, I'd trade Green+Tiago for an Ilyasova that could restore the offensive flow. Also gimp Timmy playing 38 min is retarded...

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Even though tonight's loss really stings, the other Top 3 teams in the West besides the Spurs have some pretty tough games coming up this month:

OKC FINALLY goes on a long road trip of 6 games and have 8 of their next 10 on the road. They have some pretty tough games including 1 against the Clippers, 1 against the Warriors, 2 against the Nuggets, and 1 against Memphis.

The Clippers also have a tough schedule with the exception of playing games against Orlando and Washington. They have a 3 game road trip @ Memphis, Houston, and Minnesota. They also play @ Golden State and then the next night at home against OKC. Then they have Portland twice as well...

The Grizzlies play Dallas tomorrow night, then home against the Clippers on Monday night before the re-match with the Spurs on Wednesday. Then they play Chicago, Indiana, the Lakers, Nets, Hornets, 76ers, and @ the Thunder. Not an easy schedule that's for sure...

:tu

[hater]

only saw OT and spurs were looking good. Kawhi did fuckup and probably cost us the game.

Memphis is a great fucking team and contender. and they played well.

Spurs will be competitive come playoffs. that's all spursfan can hope for.

regardless the Heat will win it all so don't feel so bad

[biskvito]

That doesn't say anything. Manu is still the top playmaking SG and the biggest strength of the team is the overall passing/playmaking combined with outside shooting. Not many teams can fill the floor with better combos at that.

Only Spurs are now shooting themselves in the foot by slowly but surely going away from their strengths.

Luckily the pieces are still there and I almost expect Pop to find the best adjustments.

There's only 1 ball to be handled, a natural playmaker finds the open guy and the easy bucket, which was were this whole dumb discussion began, Tiago offense on NBA relies on easy buckets, but the good thing is he moves well without the ball and Diaw was finding him better than anyone else.

[TDMVPDPOY]

amazing when haters all come out for the common cause, i approve of this....

lol timvp debolding the haters

[TJastal]

I agree with that too, the team lost its edge with Tiago at PF, I'd trade Green+Tiago for an Ilyasova that could restore the offensive flow. Also gimp Timmy playing 38 min is retarded...

Ryan Anderson for Splitter, Neal, & Bonner. That's banking on this new guy from Australia to step in and contribute immediately however.

[TJastal]

amazing when haters all come out for the common cause, i approve of this....

lol timvp debolding the haters

I'd much rather be plain ol' grey myself. ;)

[Boomersgold]

amazing when haters all come out for the common cause, i approve of this....

lol timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) debolding the haters

What does having your name in bold actually mean?

[TDMVPDPOY]

seems like the spurs have a weak mentality approach to games, yes its 82 games long season u cant go into every game winning everything,

but why do they continue to allow pathetic teams rock up every match against the spurs like its winnable, whatever happen to putting the fear into the other team that they cant hang around with the spurs...

this team seems like they dont have another gear to goto.....

[DrSteffo]

Splitter is just so tough and so good and we are lucky to have him.

[quentin_compson]

Memphis could easily beat the Spurs again in the Playoffs. Still, it wasn't an all bad game for our guys. The last couple of games haven't been that smooth, however.

[Brunodf]

Memphis could easily beat the Spurs again in the Playoffs. Still, it wasn't an all bad game for our guys. The last couple of games haven't been that smooth, however.

:lmao Good one

[Horse]

Splitter is also like the reggie miller of big men as far as moving without the ball. He does that as well as anyone.

[quentin_compson]

:lmao Good one

I guess I got the wording wrong. What I meant was that the Grizz definitely have the weapons to beat the Spurs in the Playoffs.

[therealtruth]

I think Manu needs to start. Let Green come of the bench and defend the top scoring threat of the bench. Manu fixes the offense and Green helps the defense. Play Neal/De Colo/Mills based on whether you need shot making, playmaking, or speed.

[Manufan909]

I think Manu needs to start. Let Green come of the bench and defend the top scoring threat of the bench. Manu fixes the offense and Green helps the defense. Play Neal/De Colo/Mills based on whether you need shot making, playmaking, or speed.

Pop already fails miserably way too often at having a playmaker on the court at all times, why would you want the 2 best playmakers to start? If NDC clearly wins the backup PG spot a la Splitter winning the starting C spot, then I'd be cool with Manu starting. NDC and Boris are enough passing on the bench unit, imo.

[spurraider21]

Splitters play was really encouraging, and Tim did fantastic on defense. Marc's numbers should show that to be true. That said, with Tiago in the starting 5 we are goin to need a big from the bench to contribute more. Diaw personifies the French lazy stereotype. All he needs is a cigarette and a scarf and boom. Either he needs to step up, Blair needs to remember how he played year 2, or Baynes is going to have to contribute this season ( quite unlikely)

[capek]

Splitters play was really encouraging, and Tim did fantastic on defense. Marc's numbers should show that to be true. That said, with Tiago in the starting 5 we are goin to need a big from the bench to contribute more. Diaw personifies the French lazy stereotype. All he needs is a cigarette and a scarf and boom. Either he needs to step up, Blair needs to remember how he played year 2, or Baynes is going to have to contribute this season ( quite unlikely)

I'm sure that's why the brain trust decided it was worth the investment to bring Baynes over. They tried to go the 'cheap' route by only having two centers on the team for 2 years. The whole "Duncan or Splitter but not both" period. Now that they're both starting, that lack of a true center off the bench has become a glaring weakness. A lot of ST posters have been whinging about Pop's 'mad scientist' lineups, midget ball etc, but what the fuck do they expect with a glaring hole in our personnel like that.

Naw, because he fills a need, I expect Baynes to get thrown in the fire pretty fast once he's here. Like Nazr in '05. In some ways it'll be easier, since Baynes has some familiarity with the Spurs system via the Oz national team. But in the big way it'll be harder, seeing as he has no NBA experience. But with all the talent we have coming off the bench, it should make things easier on him. Baynes comes in at the 5, Diaw at the 4, and we have a normal backup lineup that doesn't include Bonner, which should be addition by subtraction if nothing else.

[spurraider21]

I'm sure that's why the brain trust decided it was worth the investment to bring Baynes over. They tried to go the 'cheap' route by only having two centers on the team for 2 years. The whole "Duncan or Splitter but not both" period. Now that they're both starting, that lack of a true center off the bench has become a glaring weakness. A lot of ST posters have been whinging about Pop's 'mad scientist' lineups, midget ball etc, but what the fuck do they expect with a glaring hole in our personnel like that.

Naw, because he fills a need, I expect Baynes to get thrown in the fire pretty fast once he's here. Like Nazr in '05. In some ways it'll be easier, since Baynes has some familiarity with the Spurs system via the Oz national team. But in the big way it'll be harder, seeing as he has no NBA experience. But with all the talent we have coming off the bench, it should make things easier on him. Baynes comes in at the 5, Diaw at the 4, and we have a normal backup lineup that doesn't include Bonner, which should be addition by subtraction if nothing else.
Naz had been in the NBA for years and was averaging somethin like 11-8 at the point we traded for him. I like Baynes but to expect a rotation spot off the bat is going to leave people disappointed, unless he really establishes himself in garbage time minutes

[capek]

Naz had been in the NBA for years and was averaging somethin like 11-8 at the point we traded for him. I like Baynes but to expect a rotation spot off the bat is going to leave people disappointed, unless he really establishes himself in garbage time minutes

Hence the "no NBA experience" remark.

Anyways, we'll see. He was doing *pretty well* in Euroleague play, and he has no competition. And all he he'll have to do to get minutes at the back up 5 is rebound, which is the easiest skill to translate from Euro to the NBA. I guess it remains to be seen how foul prone he'll be, but all things considered he has a pretty easy road to the back up spot. Like Nazr had with the starting spot in '05...hence the comparison...

[cd021]

Spurs playing worse and worse, soon hey will b e 5th in the conference and that really not a good position to go into the playoffs

No way Memphis catches the Spurs, thats not going to happen. They are a mediocre road team and already have the same amount losses losses than the Spurs but have played 5 fewer games. They are 3 1/2 games back and the Spurs are just now playing with a full roster.

[polandprzem]

No way Memphis catches the Spurs, thats not going to happen. They are a mediocre road team and already have the same amount losses losses than the Spurs but have played 5 fewer games. They are 3 1/2 games back and the Spurs are just now playing with a full roster.
not

[cd021]

not

Yes indeed, The spurs could be tied for 2nd (tie breaker not included ) by 2nite if The Clippers lose.

[polandprzem]

But they are not in full roster - that what I meant