Manu Ginobili Injury: Hamstring vs Wolves (Update: Strained Left Hamstring Confirmed)

[timvp]

Manu Ginobili went down after trying to make a move on the offensive end. Ginobili immediately grabbed his hamstring. There wasn't an obvious strain or anything so let's hope it's a cramp. Unfortunately, though, it's probably a pulled hamstring.

If that's the case, the timing is horrible since he was just starting to look GREAT physically. He had that flurry of dunks in recent games and tonight specifically he was getting to the rim with ease.

Please be okay, Manu.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eyZj3LrNbFY/S_wU4HCqA4I/AAAAAAAAApA/n8duDyvqFek/s1600/boy-dog-praying2.gif

[Spurs Brazil]

Monroe_SA @manuginobili went down after drive to bucket; he's limping to locker room with athletic trainer Will Sevening; bruised hip maybe?

WTF??????????????????????

Monroe needs new glasses

[Raven]

didn't look anything special, but you never know..

[timtonymanu]

Yeah, let's just hope it was just a cramp. With Manu though, it tends to be worse than we think.

[timvp]

Bruised hip would be a optimal outcome but it was clearly a hamstring injury in my eyes ........

[Libri]

No need to panic. Icy Hot will do the trick. Shaq said in the commercial.

[td4mvp2k]

Ya you can put this on the Grizzlies and the OT.

[DPG21920]

Please stop bumping old threads, k, thx.

[polandprzem]

Elliott and Monroe are morons tbh

[Bill_Brasky]

As soon as I turned on the TV. Fuckin Manu.

[Spurs Brazil]

spurs Manu Ginobili has a strained left hamstring. He will not return to tonight's game.

[Brunodf]

Its a strain hamstring, won't return

[Spurs Brazil]

I think he'll miss 2 weeks

[ElNono]

Non-Issue

[MaineSpursFan]

Strained hammy - will not return to game.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

yep strained left hammy SMFH

[hater]

that poor kid's knees must be busted, everytime Argiedoll goes down him and his dog are subjected to this

[timtonymanu]

Damn and he was really the only bright spot in the Spurs' recent slumps.

Hopefully Green, Leonard, and Neal get their heads out of their asses and step up.

[Drew2354]

Thats alright! Danny Green will pick up his slack...wait he only has a REB tonight and no points...ya were screwed

[Southwest Texas Fan]

:bang:bang:bang:pctoss

[timvp]

Strained hamstring will keep Ginobili out for a while, unfortunately. Pop will take extra time since it's Manu so ... yeah ... bad news :depressed

[DesignatedT]

Could have been a lot worse.

[ElNono]

Hope he travels with the team, tbh

[Mugen]

i hope it's only a strained hammy and not anything worse tbh.

[hater]

LOL injuring yourself while taking a step back

retire already please

[phxspurfan]

NDC called up in 5...4...

edit: more minutes for NDC

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Any idea how long he will be out, what's the usual on an injury like that?

[DPG21920]

Manu health - aka Groundhog Day.

[ElNono]

Any idea how long he will be out, what's the usual on an injury like that?

1-4 weeks, depending on severity

[DPG21920]

Just one injury after another. I know he looks like he has game left (and he does when he's healthy) but how can you manage this guys minutes any more than you already do? There is nothing left to do you just can't count on him to stay healthy over the long haul any more.

[ffadicted]

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[polandprzem]

1-4 weeks, depending on severity
closer to 4 of course although it was not looking that bad

[TMTTRIO]

that's why you need to stop relying on him so much as one of the Big 3 and allow him to become more of a bench role player. I know he has said he wants to continue to play after this season but if he continues to get these nagging injuries it would probably be best for him to retire. There's a reason that he's been really breaking down this year.

[ElNono]

At least it's nothing chronic... that's important to the Spurs looking to renew him at the end of the season...

[DPG21920]

The issue is he does just enough to make you think "he's got plenty left" because his per minute numbers look great. But he can't play long minutes, can't stay healthy and can't sustain his production if you actually play him 36 minutes like you need for a championship contender.

If he is going to be re-signed, he needs to take a massive pay cut and I mean massive. If not, IMO, it's best for the Spurs to move on and sign someone who you can count on to play minutes. If the Spurs are pushing for a title, they need someone who can produce and take up more minutes without having to be babied (to no avail).

[hater]

Just one injury after another. I know he looks like he has game left (and he does when he's healthy) but how can you manage this guys minutes any more than you already do? There is nothing left to do you just can't count on him to stay healthy over the long haul any more.

you advise him to retire. At this point he's impeding the progress of guys like Neal, Patty, De Colo and Green

[ElNono]

Luckily, the Spurs have a 4x champion front office that understands Manu's value to the team inside and outside the court...

[DPG21920]

you advise him to retire. At this point he's impeding the progress of guys like Neal, Patty, De Colo and Green

He's not doing anything to those guys. They all get plenty of minutes. Spurs need a legit 2nd/3rd option that can play 35 minutes consistently and produce well.

[DPG21920]

Luckily, the Spurs have a 4x champion front office that understands Manu's value to the team inside and outside the court...

If they re-sign him for a decent contract it will be more because of his business impact more than his basketball abilities at this point. That's not a terrible thing and it's understandable, but hopefully he can change what has plagued him for a long time as he continues to age (injuries).

He just can't stay healthy and that is with being completely micro-managed and babied minutes wise. He's still ultra talented when healthy but it's so rare and Spurs need someone they can count on consistently.

[hater]

He's not doing anything to those guys. They all get plenty of minutes. Spurs need a legit 2nd/3rd option that can play 35 minutes consistently and produce well.

let's see those guys #s a few games after Manu is out...

[ElNono]

Good to see other posters recognize Manu has plenty game left... I'm sure the Spurs FO see it too...

[ElNono]

Ultimately, Manu has just been unlucky.... a new injury in a different place... just when he was saying how healthy he was feeling... as seen with Jax, at that age injuries happen more often...

Luckily, I think there's enough time for him to get back in shape looking into the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

IMO, 2 years, 10M. That is fair value for a guy who can likely only play 20-23 minutes (even then you will have injuries) and for a guy that will likely only play in about 72 games (seemingly at best).

I hope Manu stays, I just hope the contract is reasonable. Manu can still play, but a contender needs to know you can count on your top 3 to play the vast majority of the minutes and games.

[Brazil]

El contusion strikagainagain

[DPG21920]

Ultimately, Manu has just been unlucky.... a new injury in a different place... just when he was saying how healthy he was feeling... as seen with Jax, at that age injuries happen more often...

Luckily, I think there's enough time for him to get back in shape looking into the playoffs.

I agree it's bad luck, but it is just him. He's injury prone in a major way and it's hurt the Spurs playoff runs before and it's not getting better. He's playing only 24 minutes a game. That's one half of basketball a night and he still can't stay healthy. Do you just play him only 20 minutes from here on out?

[DPG21920]

timvp what are your thoughts on this? I know you don't want him to retire (neither do I), but what about his ability to play consistently without getting hurt? Do you cut his minutes down to 20 per game only (he's at 24 now and can't stay healthy)? What about his contract and what his inability to stay healthy/log minutes does to the Spurs title hopes?

[ElNono]

I agree it's bad luck, but it is just him. He's injury prone in a major way and it's hurt the Spurs playoff runs before and it's not getting better. He's playing only 24 minutes a game. That's one half of basketball a night and he still can't stay healthy. Do you just play him only 20 minutes from here on out?

Nah... I actually never understood Pop limiting his minutes as much... most of his injuries have been mid-game, freak kind... broken hand, broken nose, this hamstring injury... they weren't typical injuries because he was 'tired' (ie: sprained ankles).

He always played 30+ mins for Argentina and only had one injury which was really a re-aggravation of a previous injury that required surgery (which he had).

He's old tough, there's no dodging that. He's more prone to these dings, and it takes longer for him to get back in shape.

[hater]

Manu stopped taking Spurs to the next level long ago.

Not to mention he hasn't been 100% throughout a playoff run in half a decade. If anyone believes he will be 100% come this playoffs and throughout, I got some land to sell you in Fukushima, Japan.

Retire already and let the young guys progress

[Fabbs]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eyZj3LrNbFY/S_wU4HCqA4I/AAAAAAAAApA/n8duDyvqFek/s1600/boy-dog-praying2.gif
Please help ST Spurfan to have a realistic view of this season.

[TMTTRIO]

I do think if Manu continues to get little nagging injuries that he'll retire at the end of the season. Do you think he likes being injury prone and everytime he turns around he's injured again and has to work hard at getting his game back just to get injured again? I think it'll come down to how he feels at the end of the season.

[Brunodf]

He's not doing anything to those guys. They all get plenty of minutes. Spurs need a legit 2nd/3rd option that can play 35 minutes consistently and produce well.

Pop is the one who choses not play him more than 25 minutes/game.

[DPG21920]

Pop is the one who choses not play him more than 25 minutes/game.

Do you know why?

[Juggity]

Manu stopped taking Spurs to the next level long ago.

Not to mention he hasn't been 100% throughout a playoff run in half a decade. If anyone believes he will be 100% come this playoffs and throughout, I got some land to sell you in Fukushima, Japan.

Retire already and let the young guys progress

He was 100% last season for the playoffs, wasn't he? The only injury I remember was the one sustained in early January 2012, which kept him out until mid-February.

[Sean Cagney]

I have called him Fraginobili the last few years, damn he is hurt again. He can't stay healthy for any length to get his game back :(

[timvp]

timvp what are your thoughts on this? I know you don't want him to retire (neither do I), but what about his ability to play consistently without getting hurt?
A combination of bad luck and old age. The good news is that none of his injuries seem to be the nagging kind. Those are the injuries that send players to an early retirement.


Do you cut his minutes down to 20 per game only (he's at 24 now and can't stay healthy)?
No, you can't cut his minutes any further. Keep him at ~24-25 once he comes back. In March and April, that probably needs to get bumped up closer to 30 to build his stamina.


What about his contract and what his inability to stay healthy/log minutes does to the Spurs title hopes?
It's part of the package with Ginobili. If he could play 32+ minutes per night, we'd be talking about a player who might get thrown a near max deal in the offseason. Given his minutes limitation and his injury history, the Spurs should be able to get him to come back for something like $8 million per year.

[Brunodf]

Do you know why?

No idea

[Sean Cagney]

He was 100% last season for the playoffs, wasn't he? The only injury I remember was the one sustained in early January 2012, which kept him out until mid-February.

Yes he was last year, one out of the last 4 or 5 years he was not hurt. I don't like that ratio :( Last year the Spurs had health for once late, which is the main reason for the run and how they managed to get that far (First time in years).

[DPG21920]

So knowing he's getting older, still has injury issues (regardless of how they are classified) and that he's unable to log minutes beyond 24 without getting hurt (and his injuries have derailed playoff runs) you are still good with giving him 8M per year?

To me, while his "value" may technically be there, the fact you know he is injury prone and have seen his injuries build and build, giving him that much money doesn't make sense basketball wise. Yes,his per minute numbers are good but we all know he can't actually play 35 minutes like you need. So his per minute stats don't mean all that much and I don't know very many players that get injured and can only play 24 MPG that get paid like that.

[DPG21920]

No idea

Because if you play him more, he will get injured.

[Leetonidas]

Better for him to sustain minor injuries now rather than later, even though he was finally rounding into form. Hopefully he'll be healthy for the playoffs

[Brunodf]

Because if you play him more, he will get injured.

Maybe, or if you play Ginobili more minutes he wouldn't try to do too much like he usually does in limited minutes...

And limited minutes didn't help him in the previous seasons...

[Reck]

Manu should just retire.

Multiple injuries per year, unrealiable as fuck, TO machine. Yeah this guy should call it a career.

[Texas_Ranger]

I love Manu, but I would not give him 8 millions.

[timvp]

So knowing he's getting older, still has injury issues (regardless of how they are classified) and that he's unable to log minutes beyond 24 without getting hurt (and his injuries have derailed playoff runs) you are still good with giving him 8M per year?

To me, while his "value" may technically be there, the fact you know he is injury prone and have seen his injuries build and build, giving him that much money doesn't make sense basketball wise. Yes,his per minute numbers are good but we all know he can't actually play 35 minutes like you need. So his per minute stats don't mean all that much and I don't know very many players that get injured and can only play 24 MPG that get paid like that.

Ginobili is still damn good per minute. It is what it is. You gotta hope that Ginobili is healthy come the playoffs and hope that he can push it more and give you ~30 strong minutes per game in April and May. Ginobili is a high risk, high reward player right now in his career. But his ceiling remains high enough that he's still extremely valuable.










Anyways, TJ Ford missed seven weeks with a torn hamstring last year. Let's hope it's not THAT bad.

[DPG21920]

Maybe, or if you play Ginobili more he wouldn't try to do too much like he usually does...

And limited minutes didn't help him in the previous seasons...

:lol So a guy who gets injured a lot, is aging, you think playing him more minutes decreases his odds of getting hurt? That literally makes no sense and there is a very obvious reason Manu plays a measly 24 minutes. He has to be damn near the highest paid guy in the MPG range.

[ElNono]

I would not give him $8 millions either.... more like $9-$11 million, tbh

[TheSkeptic]

Ginobili is still damn good per minute. It is what it is. You gotta hope that Ginobili is healthy come the playoffs and hope that he can push it more and give you ~30 strong minutes per game in April and May. Ginobili is a high risk, high reward player right now in his career. But his ceiling remains high enough that he's still extremely valuable.










Anyways, TJ Ford missed seven weeks with a torn hamstring last year. Let's hope it's not THAT bad.

I think a strain is different from a tear. Manu shouldn't be out 7 weeks but I'd think somewhere in the 1-5 week range depending on how bad it is.

[ElNono]

Gasol is probably the highest paid in the MPG range this season, tbh

[Brunodf]

:lol So a guy who gets injured a lot, is aging, you think playing him more minutes decreases his odds of getting hurt? That literally makes no sense and there is a very obvious reason Manu plays a measly 24 minutes. He has to be damn near the highest paid guy in the MPG range.

Like i said maybe, i think that a car running at full speed for 2 hours is more likely to break than one running at regular speed for 4.

[DPG21920]

You honestly think he deserves more than Tim and the about the same as TP?

[DPG21920]

Like i said maybe, i think that a car running at full speed for 2 hours is more likely to crash than one running at regular speed for 4.

What?

[hater]

tbh he should be downgraded to a Steve Kerr, Brent Barry role no more. come in shoot a few shots and sit down at the 2nd or 3rd error.

But no, stubborn Pop still thinks Manu can take the team on his back. That is history.

[Leetonidas]

Maybe, or if you play Ginobili more minutes he wouldn't try to do too much like he usually does in limited minutes...

And limited minutes didn't help him in the previous seasons...

Manu is going to play like Manu no matter how many minutes he plays, he always plays balls to the wall. That's who he is. But it's not like he sustained this injury doing some crazy shit. His body is just older and this happens to older wing players much more frequently, unfortunately

[ElNono]

I was kidding, but Tony is making $12.5... $8 is probably about right, but the question is how much the Spurs will have to pay Tiago. Although if Diaw wants to bolt, there's another $4 million available

[DPG21920]

Gasol is probably the highest paid in the MPG range this season, tbh

Pau is playing 34 minutes a game. That is a ton more than Manu. If you look at the guys who only play 24 minutes or so, Manu has to be a top paid player in that bracket. To me, you can't pay a guy a lot of money that can only play those minutes (especially when that doesn't curb the injury risk very much).

Just my two cents. Hopefully he can avoid the consistent bad luck he's had and stay healthy. He'll produce at a high level if healthy for 25 minutes and the Spurs really need that.

[ElNono]

Pau is playing 34 minutes a game. That is a ton more than Manu.

Gasol missed 10 more games than Manu. He also makes an extra $5 million more than Manu. Per minute, this season, it's Gasol.

So far anyways.

[DPG21920]

Gasol missed 10 more games than Manu. He also makes an extra $5 million more than Manu. Per minute, this season, it's Gasol.

So far anyways.

You missed the point of what I said. I was only comparing guys who play the minutes Manu does and how much guys who play 24 minutes get paid in this league.

I never said per minute played he's the most expensive in the league. I was trying to show the value guys who can play 24 minutes have in the NBA money-wise.

[spurtech09]

Won't be surprised if manu returns sooner....manu will be alright

[Mugen]

I think a strain is different from a tear. Manu shouldn't be out 7 weeks but I'd think somewhere in the 1-5 week range depending on how bad it is.

They'll be able to determine if there was a tear after the MRI tomorrow. Usually aren't able to diagnose a tear that quickly after the injury occurs.

He was able to walk off under his own strength so hopefully it's just a strain in which case i'd say he's out 2-3 weeks. If it's a tear, then Manu will probably be out a couple of months.

This is around the same time when he had his hand injury last year as well. oh well, nobody should be surprised by a Ginobili injury. Luckily the Spurs are deepest at the 2 and they have guys capable of stepping up.

[ElNono]

You missed the point of what I said. I was only comparing guys who play the minutes Manu does and how much guys who play 24 minutes get paid in this league.

I didn't miss your point. It's just such 'imaginary brackets' don't exist, simply because no other team rests stars like Pop does.

Now looking at paid-per-minute-played it's Gasol. Manu will probably be there at some point depending on how long it takes to recover.

[DPG21920]

I didn't miss your point. It's just such 'imaginary brackets' don't exist, simply because no other team rests stars like Pop does.

Now looking at paid-per-minute-played it's Gasol. Manu will probably be there at some point depending on how long it takes to recover.

It's no more imaginary than "per minute" brackets tbh. It's about establishing value. Guys who can only give you 24 MPG don't really make that kind of money. Guys that only give you 24MPG and still represent a major injury risk certainly don't. The one's that do all have horrific contracts by all subjective measures.

Other teams don't rest their stars because they don't have injury prone guys like Manu tbh. BTW Tim and TP both play at least 30 MPG..

[DPG21920]

Point being, making 8-10M per year, most of those guys log pretty big minutes. The ones that don't are injury prone guys on what are viewed as awful contracts or guys that got contracts late and fell off a cliff (RJ, Ben Gordon..)

[ElNono]

It's no more imaginary than "per minute" brackets tbh. It's about establishing value. Guys who can only give you 24 MPG don't really make that kind of money. Guys that only give you 24MPG and still represent a major injury risk certainly don't. The one's that do all have horrific contracts by all subjective measures.

Other teams don't rest their stars because they don't have injury prone guys like Manu tbh. BTW Tim and TP both play at least 30 MPG..

Per minute brackets are simply all inclusive. You can compare against anybody else in the league. Imaginary brackets, not that much.

Manu is expected to give the Spurs more than 24 mpg come April, so saying he can only give you 24 mpg is a bit disingenuous. At least, I'm pretty sure the Spurs expect him to play more than that. Wouldn't you agree?

BTW, good to see you talking basketball.

[chazley]

All of you idiots saying Manu should retire are mind-numbingly dumb. Every team in this league would take him in a heartbeat.

[ElNono]

Point being, making 8-10M per year, most of those guys log pretty big minutes. The ones that don't are injury prone guys on what are viewed as awful contracts or guys that got contracts late and fell off a cliff (RJ, Ben Gordon..)

I would agree except none of those guys produce per minute what Manu does, thus why they're viewed as awful contracts.

[timvp]

I think a strain is different from a tear. Manu shouldn't be out 7 weeks but I'd think somewhere in the 1-5 week range depending on how bad it is.

The strain diagnosis is preliminary. They won't know more until the MRI tomorrow. Let's hope it's a typical pulled hamstring and nothing more.

[DPG21920]

Per minute brackets are simply all inclusive. You can compare against anybody else in the league. Imaginary brackets, not that much.

Manu is expected to give the Spurs more than 24 mpg come April, so saying he can only give you 24 mpg is a bit disingenuous. At least, I'm pretty sure the Spurs expect him to play more than that. Wouldn't you agree?

BTW, good to see you talking basketball.

Oh, I fully agree that for the money they are paying him and more importantly for their basketball aspirations they expect him to play more - the issue is I don't know if he can. I also think you see his per minute productivity dip when you actually expand his minutes. That is my point.

I love Manu, trust him more than just about anyone in big moments and I hope you are right. It's just that history tells us it doesn't seem likely he will be able to log big minutes or stay healthy over the long run. Hopefully all this bad luck goes away and he can up those minutes to the 35 you need in the playoffs and that he can keep his per minute productivity up with the increased minutes. To me though, giving someone with all that risk 8-10M is a dicey proposition. I guess you could argue someone that's not as proven is dicey too at that amount, however, to me they are very different risks.

[Fabbs]

12 points and 5 assists in 12 minutes.
In on 22 points in his 1st 12 minutes.
What a smokin start. :toast

Wonder if Stats Guy could confirm that's the most smoking pts/assists combo 1st qtr - 1st 12 minutes in SuperManus career?

[hater]

All of you idiots saying Manu should retire are mind-numbingly dumb. Every team in this league would take him in a heartbeat.

for free? sure. in the same way teams would take an old Mike Finley. that's not saying much tbh

[ElNono]

Oh, I fully agree that for the money they are paying him and more importantly for their basketball aspirations they expect him to play more - the issue is I don't know if he can. I also think you see his per minute productivity dip when you actually expand his minutes. That is my point.

If he is suited to play around that time in the year and didn't play more than 24 mpg, that would be the first time in his career, or the Spurs are simply cruising. I haven't seen any indication why this season might be different.


I love Manu, trust him more than just about anyone in big moments and I hope you are right. It's just that history tells us it doesn't seem likely he will be able to log big minutes or stay healthy over the long run. Hopefully all this bad luck goes away and he can up those minutes to the 35 you need in the playoffs and that he can keep his per minute productivity up with the increased minutes. To me though, giving someone with all that risk 8-10M is a dicey proposition. I guess you could argue someone that's not as proven is dicey too at that amount, however, to me they are very different risks.

I know you love Manu, no need to tell me.

History actually tells us he'll be there when we need him, minute-wise. He's obviously on the decline, and like Tim, you can't expect him to be the Manu from 3-4 seasons ago. That's just not realistic.

[DPG21920]

An aging Tim however is playing about 25% more MPG than Manu. To me that's a little bit of a red flag.

[hater]

History actually tells us he'll be there when we need him, minute-wise. He's obviously on the decline, and like Tim, you can't expect him to be the Manu from 3-4 seasons ago. That's just not realistic.

that's really a terrible comparison given Duncan is one of the most durable and consistent old bigmen in the game.

[TheSkeptic]

They'll be able to determine if there was a tear after the MRI tomorrow. Usually aren't able to diagnose a tear that quickly after the injury occurs.

He was able to walk off under his own strength so hopefully it's just a strain in which case i'd say he's out 2-3 weeks. If it's a tear, then Manu will probably be out a couple of months.

This is around the same time when he had his hand injury last year as well. oh well, nobody should be surprised by a Ginobili injury. Luckily the Spurs are deepest at the 2 and they have guys capable of stepping up.


The strain diagnosis is preliminary. They won't know more until the MRI tomorrow. Let's hope it's a typical pulled hamstring and nothing more.

Ah thanks. I'm still leaning towards a strain since he walked out on his own but obviously we won't know until tomorrow then.

[Fabbs]

:lol So a guy who gets injured a lot, is aging, you think playing him more minutes decreases his odds of getting hurt? That literally makes no sense and there is a very obvious reason Manu plays a measly 24 minutes. He has to be damn near the highest paid guy in the MPG range.
Yep. Wonder if giving him games off would help too.
Lord Dipstick won't do that I'm just sayin wonder if more rest days off would help.
Like the playoffs, ya know?

[ElNono]

An aging Tim however is playing about 25% more MPG than Manu. To me that's a little bit of a red flag.

Manu makes his minutes count... again, not comparing Manu to Tim minutes-wise, just simply stating production-wise they're both veterans on the decline and expecting them to produce the way they did 2-3 seasons ago is unrealistic.

[ElNono]

that's really a terrible comparison given Duncan is one of the most durable and consistent old bigmen in the game.

It really isn't if you learn to read. I didn't say anything about durable.

[hater]

It really isn't if you learn to read. I didn't say anything about durable.

we are talking about return value at their age and minute management are we not?

Gidollbly should never EVER be mentioned in same sentence as Duncan when it comes to those factors.

[ElNono]

we are talking about return value at their age and minute management are we not?

Nope. Read what you quoted. We were talking about production expectations from veterans.

[Dr. Robert Lee]

LOL at Manu "holding back" the "development" of Gary Neal. What the hell is he "developing?" He seems quite capable of taking the whole game on his shoulders and hero balling it up right now. He's a fucking pro at that shit. He's got nothing to learn. He's a motherfucking simple superstar. Holy shit, pass the butter!

[hater]

Nope. Read what you quoted. We were talking about production expectations from veterans.

even worse. Seems to me Duncan is producing similar #s at similar MPG.

what about Chinobili?

[ElNono]

even worse. Seems to me Duncan is producing similar #s at similar MPG.

Nobody compared Duncan to Ginobili numbers. Again, apparently you have problems reading or your momma dropped you on your head when you were a kid.

Now read what you quoted again, and try to make a cogent argument.

[hater]

Nobody compared Duncan to Ginobili numbers. Again, apparently you have problems reading or your momma dropped you on your head when you were a kid.

Now read what you quoted again, and try to make a cogent argument.

LOL getting emotional.

I meant Duncan #s n minutes 2-3 years ago similar to this years.

Dollys?

[weebo]

you advise him to retire. At this point he's impeding the progress of guys like Neal, Patty, De Colo and Green

:lmao

[ElNono]

I meant Duncan #s n minutes 2-3 years ago similar to this years.

19 ppg is similar to 13 ppg? Okay.

[hater]

19 ppg is similar to 13 ppg? Okay.

:lol what?

Duncan averaged 18 3 years ago and 17 this year. Same # of minutes.

[ElNono]

:lol what?

Duncan averaged 18 3 years ago and 17 this year. Same # of minutes.

Nu uh. He averaged 12.7 ppg against a stacked Memphis frontcourt that kicked us out of the playoffs, and averaged 19.0 ppg two playoffs before then (and averaged even better before).

Tim just isn't the dominant force that could carry this team through the playoffs, and neither is Manu. There's nothing wrong with that, father time catches up to everybody, and that's why the Spurs rely on other players now.

[mingus]

The positive thing about Manu being sidelined with this hamstring injury is that now we won't have to worry about him suffering an another, worse injury in the time that he is out.

[chazley]

for free? sure. in the same way teams would take an old Mike Finley. that's not saying much tbh

Yea, all 32 teams are rushing to add Mike Finley to their team right now :rolleyes

Manu is 4th in the league in PER among SG, has the best assist ratio, is one of the best rebounders for the position, and has been on fire as a playmaker recently. Yet, because the guy is injury-prone, everyone wants him to retire. At this point, you squeeze everything you can out of Manu Ginobili and whatever juice you get out of it, be thankful and don't instead insist he should retire.

[Sean Cagney]

Nu uh. He averaged 12.7 ppg against a stacked Memphis frontcourt that kicked us out of the playoffs, and averaged 19.0 ppg two playoffs before then (and averaged even better before).

Tim just isn't the dominant force that could carry this team through the playoffs, and neither is Manu. There's nothing wrong with that, father time catches up to everybody, and that's why the Spurs rely on other players now.

I agree, this is why they won't win a title because father time beats all and the factors that got us the titles are older now (Which is a true superstar in his prime which can take over a game or series). We rely on other players now, they are not good enough to beat an elite team though.

[ElNono]

Don't get me wrong Tim is a phenomenal player, and he has had a terrific career. It's just been a while since you would expect him to drop 20-10 as a matter of course, which for us spoiled Spurs fans was automatic not that long ago.

[SpurPadre]

All of you idiots saying Manu should retire are mind-numbingly dumb. Every team in this league would take him in a heartbeat

Thank you. Especially the guy saying he's stunting the growth of Gary "master chucker and horrible at the point" Neal, LOL. Unbelievably dumb takes. If you want Manu to retire, then you just don't want the Spurs to win another title in the TD era again. And as every team wanting to take Manu in a heartbeat is definitely true, only lottery bound teams would take Neal as a regular starter while the playoff contenders would only take Neal for the role player that he is (some teams would get pissed at him for some of the mind-numbingly stupid shots he takes, too).

[ElNono]

You don't have to hate Neal to appreciate Manu. Neal and De Colo time will come, eventually.

[HI-FI]

You don't have to hate Neal to appreciate Manu. Neal and De Colo time will come, eventually.
Hopefully Neal and DeColo can learn from each other's deficiencies. If Neal improves his handling and passing, if DeColo can improve his shooting (which I have more confidence in), that would be pretty cool.

As for Manu, I love what he brings and next to Jax are my crunch time guys, but I hope he's willing to take a serious pay cut. He shouldn't make more than Duncan imo.

[dunkman]

This injury isn't a big deal, however its an absurd that Manu is the best paid Spur. Fortunately, his deal and Jack's will expire after the season, the Spurs should re-sign them to reasonable contracts, bring Splitter and Neal back and add someone like David West.

Injuries are part of the game and is sure to be healthy for the playoffs. The problem is that he lacks endurance at this point, its max 2 good games in a series. Still valuable, but the Spurs need other players to step up. Last season, the Spurs didn't need much out of Manu the first two rounds, tbh I expected him to play better vs OKC.

This injury comes at an unfortunate moment, because he was playing well after struggling earlier in the season.

[Ice009]

What is it with all the people saying that Manu should fucking retire? He's probably been our best player during this slump the Spurs have been on. If he was a free agent, every contender in the league would be calling him up to play for them.

[hater]

Nu uh. He averaged 12.7 ppg against a stacked Memphis frontcourt that kicked us out of the playoffs, and averaged 19.0 ppg two playoffs before then (and averaged even better before).

Tim just isn't the dominant force that could carry this team through the playoffs, and neither is Manu. There's nothing wrong with that, father time catches up to everybody, and that's why the Spurs rely on other players now.

even much worse if you comparing the production of both players in the last few playoffs. Manudoll was out game 1 of that same series Grizz kicked our ass and his arm was broken for the rest. He was also hurt 3 out of the last 4 playoffs.

Duncan at least was in uniform all playoff games last 4 years.

[ElNono]

even much worse if you comparing the production of both players in the last few playoffs.

But I never did. I never compared Tim and Manu, not sure why you want to steer the conversation that way.

[hater]

I never compared Tim and Manu,


He's obviously on the decline, and like Tim,

[ElNono]

Why do you paste a partial quote? Is the full quote not clear enough?

Here's the entire quote:


He's obviously on the decline, and like Tim, you can't expect him to be the Manu from 3-4 seasons ago. That's just not realistic.

So I'm comparing Manu to Manu 3-4 seasons ago and Tim to Tim 3-4 seasons ago...

Now that we established you were wrong, do you have any other questions?

[hater]

"like Tim" = comparison. you are alluding their rate of decline is somewhat similar.

it's ok. I forgive.

My point is that it's a bad comparison. Duncan is probably best case scenario(knock on wood) when it comes to aging NBA star. Manu is not worst case, but close to worst case scenario when it comes to aging NBA star. Facts are facts.

[ElNono]

"like Tim" = comparison. you are alluding their rate of decline is somewhat similar.

Was the entire quote not clear enough?

I mean, you're not the first poster to misread a post and jump the gun only to notice you misread. It's not that big of a deal, tbh.

I'm just not going to defend a comparison I never made.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Considering the Spurs have been fantastic in the regular season for the past couple (or more) seasons despite a gimpy Manu now and then and an ageing Duncan, I would not be too concerned about Manu's injury prone-ness, as long as he avoids it close to the playoffs and stays healthy in the playoffs.

[Bruno]

Manu has only missed 3 games this year because of injuries. Complaining right now about him never being healthy seems a little odd. Jack said after the game it was "only" a strained and not a pulled hammy, so, hopefully, Manu will be back soon.

[NickiRasgo]

Manu has only missed 3 games this year because of injuries. Complaining right now about him never being healthy seems a little odd. Jack said after the game it was "only" a strained and not a pulled hammy, so, hopefully, Manu will be back soon.

And it's the 40th game of the Spurs, most in the league so far this season.

[jermaine]

Maaan if you watched the game you know he needs to retire. He just steppped back an dropped to the floor. Almost didnt give a shit about the pass either. Manu is a great champion an he needs to go out that way. I say he push it to the limit this season an retire championship or not afterwards. He's to great of a player to be looked at as a player where they say he's a TO machine an just cant stay healthy. Then he would be taking away from younger group. An Tiago is gonna take whatever the spurs give him. The way he most times cant even finish around the rim. Please, all they gotta do is show that fucka film at signing time.

[NickiRasgo]

Maaan if you watched the game you know he needs to retire. He just steppped back an dropped to the floor. Almost didnt give a shit about the pass either. Manu is a great champion an he needs to go out that way. I say he push it to the limit this season an retire championship or not afterwards. He's to great of a player to be looked at as a player where they say he's a TO machine an just cant stay healthy. Then he would be taking away from younger group. An Tiago is gonna take whatever the spurs give him. The way he most times cant even finish around the rim. Please, all they gotta do is show that fucka film at signing time.

You must have forgot how Manu steps up in Game 5 against OKC Thunder last Playoffs.

[jag]

Glass. Man.

[temujin]

1) So much for the "trade Neal" threads.
2) Ginobili has the same number of games played of Nash and Gasol combined (before last night).
3) Manu will be fine.

[maverick1948]

Timvp, could you put a springboard on the edge of the cliff, so the ones jumping off can getting a little higher. Of course, some of them are already high. Depends on what they are smoking. Most have no idea how bad Manu is, but want to retire him or trade him. If he was a race horse, they would want to put him down. I figured with the schedule like it is Manu or Timmy or both would miss the Atlanta game as it is on the road and second night of back to back. Tony might sit a game also. I for one will wait to see how bad it is before I say much. Dont think we will call on CJ to come and sit on the bench unless we have major trouble handling the ball.

[timvp]

We should find out today how long Manu will be out. Let's hope one to two weeks. The Rodeo Road Trip is three weeks away, so it'd be nice if he's back for that.

The All-Star Break ends in five weeks. Let us hope that is the worst case scenario.

[Kuestmaster]

RT manuginobili Just finished with the MRI. Grade 1 strained left hamstring. 10/14 days out. Will be back shortly. Thanks 4 ur support!!

Could have been worse.

[Mugen]

We should find out today how long Manu will be out. Let's hope one to two weeks. The Rodeo Road Trip is three weeks away, so it'd be nice if he's back for that.

The All-Star Break ends in five weeks. Let us hope that is the worst case scenario.

My guess is 3-4 weeks when factoring in that Manu is a pretty slow healer and that Pop will hold him until he's absolutely 100%. Hopefully nothing longer than that.

[Mugen]

RT manuginobili (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17669) Just finished with the MRI. Grade 1 strained left hamstring. 10/14 days out. Will be back shortly. Thanks 4 ur support!!

Could have been worse.

:lol Nevermind on my previous post. Great news tbh. Thanks for the update.

[dylankerouac]

Good to hear. Get well soon Manu.

[timvp]

RT manuginobili Just finished with the MRI. Grade 1 strained left hamstring. 10/14 days out. Will be back shortly. Thanks 4 ur support!!

Could have been worse.

Awesome news. :tu

[ElNono]

Tentatively coming back against Charlotte on the 30th?

[Mel_13]

Good news.

Looks like he'll miss 6-8 games and come back sometime during the 3 game homestand before the RRT:

Wed, Jan 16, 2013 Memphis Grizzlies
Fri, Jan 18, 2013 Golden State Warriors
Sat, Jan 19, 2013 @ Atlanta Hawks
Mon, Jan 21, 2013 @ Philadelphia 76ers
Wed, Jan 23, 2013 New Orleans Hornets
Fri, Jan 25, 2013 @ Dallas Mavericks
Sat, Jan 26, 2013 Phoenix Suns (13 days off)
Wed, Jan 30, 2013 Charlotte Bobcats (17 days off)
Sat, Feb 2, 2013 Washington Wizards (20 days off)
Wed, Feb 6, 2013 @ Minnesota Timberwolves (first game of RRT)

[Kuestmaster]

Good news.

Looks like he'll miss 6-8 games and come back sometime during the 3 game homestand before the RRT:

Wed, Jan 16, 2013 Memphis Grizzlies
Fri, Jan 18, 2013 Golden State Warriors
Sat, Jan 19, 2013 @ Atlanta Hawks
Mon, Jan 21, 2013 @ Philadelphia 76ers
Wed, Jan 23, 2013 New Orleans Hornets
Fri, Jan 25, 2013 @ Dallas Mavericks
Sat, Jan 26, 2013 Phoenix Suns (13 days off)
Wed, Jan 30, 2013 Charlotte Bobcats (17 days off)
Sat, Feb 2, 2013 Washington Wizards (20 days off)
Wed, Feb 6, 2013 @ Minnesota Timberwolves (first game of RRT)

we should win all of those except maybe the grizzlies one. But I think we'll win too tbh.

[hater]

You must have forgot how Manu steps up in Game 5 against OKC Thunder last Playoffs.

did we win?

[NickiRasgo]

did we win?

Nope but the point is, how he plays, battle on that game.

[MI21]

RT manuginobili Just finished with the MRI. Grade 1 strained left hamstring. 10/14 days out. Will be back shortly. Thanks 4 ur support!!

Could have been worse.

Fantastic. 2 weeks with a hamstring is not long so it's definitely not a pull of the hamstring, just a strain like he said.

:tu

[Sean Cagney]

we should win all of those all of those except maybe the grizzlies one. But I think we'll win too tbh.

LOL I wish we would win those games, all of them!

[chapnis]

I hate all this 'manu should retire' b.s. He is still awesome and my third favourite spur ever. I want him to play until he no longer has the ability to contribute. He's still got it l, so all the haters should stfu.

[BackHome]

What young guys on this team can take his place..Neal/Green? We will never be able to replace Manu he is right up there with David and Sean...

[hater]

What young guys on this team can take his place..Neal/Green? We will never be able to replace Manu he is right up there with David and Sean...

and he should be up there with David and Sean, watching the game from the stands.

don't get me wrong, I loved prime Manu. But this Manu got the same syndrome as Kobe. He still thinks he's 25 out ther :lol and these days most often than not, ends up sending the ball it to the 2nd row or missing a layup