Spurs being sued by fan at Heat game

[Creation88]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8847216/san-antonio-spurs-sued-lawyer-resting-top-players

The San Antonio Spurs are being sued by a lawyer who is alleging that the team violated the state's deceptive and fair trade practices law.

On Monday, Larry McGuinness filed a class action suit in Miami-Dade County, stating that the team's head coach, Gregg Popovich, "intentionally and surrepticiously" sent their best players home without the knowledge of the league, the team and the fans attending the Nov. 29 game against the Heat. McGuinness contends that he, as well as other fans, "suffered economic damages" as a result of paying a premium price for a ticket that shouldn't cost more.

[Spurs9]

:cry: I spent $30k for a seat and I want to see Tim :cry

[TrainOfThought5]

if this isnt the absolute biggest load of crap ive ever seen.....

lemme get this straight, Heatfan is upset they didnt see Duncan play... and was forced to sit through a matchup of their favorite team winning a close game with Lebron Wade amd Bosh??

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I bet most of the people who went couldn't tell you who was sent home.

[DapDaGenius]

Let me guess, he is a Jew? J/K

But this is pathetic. ""It was like going to Morton's Steakhouse and paying $63 for porterhouse and they bring out cube steak" :lol

[Manu-20]

Must be David Sterns nephew tbh.

[timvp]

I don't even know what to say other than to state lawyers have hit a new low.

[Chinook]

They got treated to a great game. I don't know why seeing the Spurs beat the Heat down would have made it more worth it.

[lefty]

:lmao

[Andthentherewas21]

If I remember correctly, this is the same guy that goes around to businesses and sues them for not having all the properly installed Americans with Disabilities Act alterations. http://www.browardbar.org/articles/93.html

The guy is literally worse than an ambulance chaser, at least they go after someone whose been injured.

[Andthentherewas21]

On a more serious note, the fact that Stern made such a big fuss about it and actually "fined" the Spurs, could give this lawsuit more credence than it would have otherwise. Stern may have screwed the Spurs and the league in generally, more than he actually wanted to with his little pity-party.

[Seventyniner]

It's like buying a brand new $50,000 car, totaling it on the way home, and finding out the insurance company will only give you $30,000 for it because it wasn't new anymore. It sucks, but that doesn't mean you should win a lawsuit over it.

[Joseph Kony]

dudes team almost got beat by the Spurs' 3rd string he has no room to claim that his ticket was overpriced

[Creation88]

the guy is just an evil opportunist. scum.

[Mel_13]

Brings new meaning to the words 'frivolous lawsuit".

Were suits filed in Massachusetts and D.C. for these games?:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201204240BOS.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201204260WAS.html

[Libri]

I've been wanting to sue Stern for a long time, tbh.

[Strategic]

Considering that less than three weeks later a well rested short handed Spurs squad lost at OKC by 14, I'm stiil not convinced that the Spurs didn't put their best foot forward.

[spurraider21]

For years they've called the Spurs boring. Duncan is boring. Parker is boring. Manu is (wtf, how?) boring. And now they complain that they paid big money to see the Spurs play? :lol

[CGD]

No merit.

[lefty]

http://i.minus.com/ibtTN4N5Vjqcfv.gif

[Sean Cagney]

the guy is just an evil opportunist. scum.

Yep. He saw the league sue and a month later thought I need some money and stoops to this crap. Watch fans from yesteryear now try to sue or idiots in the future when POP sits his guys. My guess would be to sit one or two one night and then one or two the other night.

[timvp]

The Spurs are obviously not going to lose this lawsuit. It's ridiculous, tbh.

The only concerns I have are:

1) The Spurs will probably have to waste some money in "fighting" it.

2) It could make Pop even less likely to coach how he wants to coach, which could manifest itself in tired and/or injured players come the playoffs.

[ffadicted]

Next thing you know people are gonna start suing movie studios when they don't like the movies they paid to see in theaters because "the trailer looked like a masterpiece but the movie was bad"

[ElNono]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33432371.jpg

[Drom John]

1) Stern made this suit plausible.

2) The Heat sold the ticket.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Jack's gonna settle this out of court. :makemyday

[spurspokesman]

I don't even know what to say other than to state lawyers have hit a new low.

Money is the root to all types of evil. Some people are pure walking scum i tell you. SMH

[spursfan09]

On a more serious note, the fact that Stern made such a big fuss about it and actually "fined" the Spurs, could give this lawsuit more credence than it would have otherwise. Stern may have screwed the Spurs and the league in generally, more than he actually wanted to with his little pity-party.

This was my first thought exactly. What has Stern done? Gave fuel to this fire.

Also, isn't there something in the fine print, that players may or may not play and it's not a guarentee your favorite player will play...

[Mister Sinister]

Wat.

[DarrinS]

This would set a terrible precedent.

[Strategic]

I think the owners will have to defend this one because of what will happen in the last week of the season when teams are trying to rest players? What is the difference in what Pop did in Miami as opposed to players suiting up but not playing?

[maverick1948]

I would award the man 10 million dollars, if he can show me anywhere on the ticket that Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili would be guaranteed to play. You dont even get that when you go to the AT&T Center.

The man is an idiot, no other word for it.

[LakerHater]

This dude should sue the Marlins for all the shit thats goin on there!!
Also, sue Heat front office for raisin the value of the ticket for Spurs games!!

[Arc]

i know violence isn't the answer, but i really want to punch this guy in the face.

[hater]

don't forget it was Stern who opened the door to these lawsuits.

If this amounts to anything, all gates of hell can break lose and it will all be because of the fat comishioner.

don't forget that.

[Shastafarian]

Let me guess, he is a Jew? J/K



On Monday, Larry McGuinness filed a class action suit in Miami-Dade County,

Sounds pretty jewish to me. I heard his son is named Moishe.

[look_at_g_shred]

And what happens when a player is suspended and the fans have already paid money to see them?? This is just fucking bullshit!

[widowmaker]

Can I sue lakers for not playing Howard, gasol, and hill last week?

[BillMc]

Sometimes you go to a play and the understudy performs...

Sometimes, you go to a restaurant and they're out of your favorite wine...

If it bothers you a lot, you don't go back a second time. You don't sue. This country is litigation nuts!

[spurraider21]

Sounds pretty jewish to me. I heard his son is named Moishe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b9F2mGLqKo

[Darius Bieber]

I am in the Aerospace Business and when you buy your airplane tickets, you normally see what type of plane you will be taking. However, many times schedules get shuffled and you might get put on a different, available airplane. You paid for the ticket, you get the trip, and you arrive at the destination. Nobody is suing airlines for flying in a different airplane.

Same deal here. You buy a ticket for the game. It states CLEARLY on the ticket: Spurs vs. Heat. Your ticket doesn't say: Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Danny Green, Tiago Splitter vs. Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, Chris Bosh, etc. The Judge will simply laugh and no case will even be made.

[falconqb1234]

http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/0/8AEA40664792CE1D85256A84001E89FD?OpenDocument sent him a nice email

[HI-FI]

don't forget it was Stern who opened the door to these lawsuits.

If this amounts to anything, all gates of hell can break lose and it will all be because of the fat comishioner.

don't forget that.
true. I wonder if I can sue for game 6 of last year's WCF, or perhaps the 2002 WCF. That caused mental and physical damage.

Stern is such a POS, he's created shit like this with his disregard for objectivity.

[FromWayDowntown]

http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/0/8AEA40664792CE1D85256A84001E89FD?OpenDocument sent him a nice email

That seems like a really, really bad idea.

[Blake]

They should be suing the Marlins instead.

[DDUBB1770]

Shouldn't take Stern long to come to bat for the spurs, bringing in the leagues big time lawyers to squash this crap, after all he makes fair and rational decisions with every team under the NBA banner right? Yeah this case may see the light of day in state court, costing spurs money, but if it makes it far enough thrown out in federal for sure.

[timvp]

That seems like a really, really bad idea.

:lol No kidding. Emailing anything to a lawsuit happy lawyer is not a good way to spend your free time. . .

[Hoops Czar]

Brings new meaning to the words 'frivolous lawsuit".

Were suits filed in Massachusetts and D.C. for these games?:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201204240BOS.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201204260WAS.html

Interesting how you chose two games in late April where players were rested to prevent injuries before the playoffs (every team does it) as opposed to a game in November. Surely, you can do better than that.

[swaggerjackson]

No way he wins this. For once the NBA will have the Spurs back. Because if he did win it would bring a host of other similar lawsuits against other teams. It would set a terribly unfavorable precedent against the NBA. The NBA front office, which is full of lawyers, should be coming full force to make this sure this guy loses.

[Bill_Brasky]

Interesting how you chose two games in late April where players were rested to prevent injuries before the playoffs (every team does it) as opposed to a game in November. Surely, you can do better than that.

Quit being a deliberately obtuse faggot.

[silverblk mystix]

Since I am a Contrarian at heart I have to agree with this guy!

Pop and the Spurs should field the best possible team - no fuckin' exceptions.

If these guys are paid millions they should play 82 games if healthy. Why the fuck should they rest when healthy? These athletes are pampered too much.

Hope this guy wins this case, seriously.

[diego]

Isnt he opening up for fans to then question the disclaimer on your ticket that says no players are guaranteed to play? I mean, if he admits that it is detrimental to fans for players no to play unless injured, there are enough occurrences of that to "get in on" the compensation. Nothing indicates he is going to refund the people who went to that game with the money, again demonstrating how full of shit the league is. This was way more obvious than crawford trying to fight duncan. I'm so mad we lost last night, because nothing would have exposed stern better. At least its blatant enough where most everyone can see and agree this is bullshit.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206115&p=6219292&viewfull=1#post6219292

stern did this by himself. and like i said way back then, if he had any concern for the fans he would have used the fine money to give them severance. human stupidity is infinite!

[Reck]

timvp looks like your services are needed again here.

[Hoops Czar]

Quit being a deliberately obtuse faggot.This coming from a poster with a geek Lebron James in his avator. Yeah, you're to be taken seriously. As long as Lebron plays, right?

[Snaq O'Meal]

Since I am a Contrarian at heart I have to agree with this guy!

Pop and the Spurs should field the best possible team - no fuckin' exceptions.

If these guys are paid millions they should play 82 games if healthy. Why the fuck should they rest when healthy? These athletes are pampered too much.

Hope this guy wins this case, seriously.

Pop did field the best possible team, one with guys who were not overly fatigued from the retarded scheduling. And that team almost beat the defending champions.

[Hoops Czar]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206115&p=6219292&viewfull=1#post6219292

stern did this by himself. and like i said way back then, if he had any concern for the fans he would have used the fine money to give them severance. human stupidity is infinite!

Yes, and since this is the case, the NBA or the teams there within should be liable for raising the ticket prices for certain games because of higher demand for each ticket. It should be set at a constant price throughout because afterall, no player is guaranteed to play and no fan is going to games to watch team logos.

[silverblk mystix]

Pop did field the best possible team, one with guys who were not overly fatigued from the retarded scheduling. And that team almost beat the defending champions.


Nope. Where was Tim? Tony? Manu?

Pop pussied out and enabled his overpaid stars in cheating the NBA fan. Truth.

[Reck]

Nope. Where was Tim? Tony? Manu?

Pop pussied out and enabled his overpaid stars in cheating the NBA fan. Truth.

Get the fuck back to the Club.

[TampaDude]

What do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean?




A good start.

[silverblk mystix]

People hate truth even when it is staring you right in the face.

Anyone with facts can present them- otherwise- this guy should win this case. Not saying he should be paid much but - he is solid on the "principle" part.

[Hoops Czar]

Pop did field the best possible team, one with guys who were not overly fatigued from the retarded scheduling. And that team almost beat the defending champions.

Pop had plenty of time to rest his players during the four games in 5 nights. There wasn't a need to rest all 4 in one game. And if the players weren't going to play, they should have at least been present on the bench cheering on the team. Pop went under fire for strategically planning this and Spurs fans are going off on a tangent about rest.

[pgardn]

Since I am a Contrarian at heart I have to agree with this guy!

Pop and the Spurs should field the best possible team - no fuckin' exceptions.

If these guys are paid millions they should play 82 games if healthy. Why the fuck should they rest when healthy? These athletes are pampered too much.

Hope this guy wins this case, seriously.


Its more likely you are just stupid-at-heart.

This will die a well deserved death if it ever happened to go federal. It would open the door to so much intense frivolity in the entertainment industry... Do you not see this is basically free advertising for this clown? That is all it will result in.

Good God...

[KaiRMD1]

Was anyone raped?

[Hoops Czar]

Its more likely you are just stupid-at-heart.

This will die a well deserved death if it ever happened to go federal. It would open the door to so much intense frivolity in the entertainment industry... Do you not see this is basically free advertising for this clown? That is all it will result in.

Good God...

free advertising? Did he write in to ESPN telling them to write an article about how he's suing the Spurs? He's an angry fan who feels cheated.

[pgardn]

free advertising? Did he write in to ESPN telling them to write an article about how he's suing the Spurs? He's an angry fan who feels cheated.

He has already done an interview with WOAI!

He did NOT have to give his name out!

Please the naiveity is endearing and at the same time nauseating.

[Russ]

I suggest a class action anti-trust case against the Heat for monopolizing talent in an anticompetitive manner. A horizontal retraint of trade to the detriment of each other NBA team and its fans and ancillary participants (e.g., vendors). Damages in the millions (and that's before trebling). :toast

[pgardn]

I suggest a class action anti-trust case against the Heat for monopolizing talent in an anticompetitive manner. A horizontal retraint of trade to the detriment of each other NBA team and its fans and ancillary participants (e.g., vendors). Damages in the millions (and that's before trebling). :toast


Heck yes!

This leads down so many pathways...

[Mel_13]

Interesting how you chose two games in late April where players were rested to prevent injuries before the playoffs (every team does it) as opposed to a game in November. Surely, you can do better than that.

This thread is about a fan bringing a case to court because he bought a ticket to a basketball game and several of the best players were rested, thus harming him economically as he did not get see the performers he paid to see. The date of the game is irrelevant to this discussion. To the extent that the fan in this case was harmed, so were those fans in Boston and Washington.

You and a few others are using this case to beat the dead horses from restgate. You really should bump one of the old threads if you want to reopen that discussion. This thread is about entirely different issues. Surely, you can do better.

[Reck]

free advertising? Did he write in to ESPN telling them to write an article about how he's suing the Spurs? He's an angry fan who feels cheated.

It is free advertisement.

By getting all this attention he's making himself known out there and in doing so making his "services" as a lawyer available.

He doesn't feel "cheated" for shit. He's simply trying to make a buck out of this oportunity.

Dont be so naive to think he cares about the NBA let alone that he's an angry fan.

[silverblk mystix]

It is free advertisement.

By getting all this attention he's making himself known out there and in doing so making his "services" as a lawyer available.

He doesn't feel "cheated" for shit. He's simply trying to make a buck out of this oportunity.

Dont be so naive to think he cares about the NBA let alone that he's an angry fan.


A lot of assumptions there...based on...caca.

[KaiRMD1]

Hmmmmm, this all points to the fact that the NBA doesn't encourage a simple love for the game in general. There are usually twelve active players on a team, fans should technically want to see all twelve (realistically eight) but yet the NBA, especially in this age where super teams have become the norm, has constantly advertised "superstars" as the reason to watch or attend games. Neither Baseball nor Football suffer from this shameless advertising as much which is why they are doing fine financially. Just sayin....

[Reck]

A lot of assumptions there...based on...caca.

Its all about business. This is NOT because he feels cheated or angry.

Have yu any idea of how this world works? What does a prison guard knows anyway? Other than sticking a finger up immates assholes that is.

[silverblk mystix]

Its all about business. This is NOT because he feels cheated or angry.

Have yu any idea of how this world works? What does a prison guard knows anyway? Other than sticking a finger up immates assholes that is.


When there are no facts- go with insults. Excellent.

[Hoops Czar]

This thread is about a fan bringing a case to court because he bought a ticket to a basketball game and several of the best players were rested, thus harming him economically as he did not get see the performers he paid to see. The date of the game is irrelevant to this discussion. To the extent that the fan in this case was harmed, so were those fans in Boston and Washington.

You and a few others are using this case to beat the dead horses from restgate. You really should bump one of the old threads if you want to reopen that discussion. This thread is about entirely different issues. Surely, you can do better.

If its irrelevant to the discussion, why did you post it? Most realistic fans know the starters will be pulled in late April games with the playoffs approaching and nothing on the line. If those fans pissed away thousands of dollars most likely knowing the starters wouldn't play, then they really don't have a lawsuit. Most of the attending were probably season ticket holders. The NBA has been doing this for years but rarely, if ever, dd a team intentionally hold out healthy players in a nationally televised, high profile November game just to send Stern and the NBA a message. And like I said earlier, if resting healthy players is an option for teams, don't jack up the ticket prices when a contender comes to town. That's extortion.

[Reck]

When there are no facts- go with insults. Excellent.

And of course you do have the facts right. Uh huh.

Your idiocy is astounding. Good bye

[Mel_13]

If its irrelevant to the discussion, why did you post it?

You really are being obtuse, aren't you? You suggested that the games I linked were not relevant because of when they occurred during the season. The games I posted are every bit as relevant as the game under discussion, to the extent that there is anything worthy of litigation in this instance. Your suggestion that caveat emptor applies to certain basketball ticket purchases more than others is bizarre, to say the least.

[Hoops Czar]

Its all about business. This is NOT because he feels cheated or angry.

Have yu any idea of how this world works? What does a prison guard knows anyway? Other than sticking a finger up immates assholes that is.

Right, no such thing as NBA fans. They're all entrepreneur's trying to make a buck. I'm sure that same fan would have sued the Heat had the Spur's starters played and blown them out because he didn't get his money's worth. He isn't going to get more money than the worth of his ticket + traveling expenses.

[FireMicoHalili]

Isn't forcing players to play involuntary servitude? Tired, aging players at that..

[silverblk mystix]

And of course you do have the facts right. Uh huh.

Your idiocy is astounding. Good bye


On Monday, Larry McGuinness filed a class action suit in Miami-Dade County, stating that the team's head coach, Gregg Popovich, "intentionally and surrepticiously" sent their best players home without the knowledge of the league, the team and the fans attending the Nov. 29 game against the Heat. McGuinness contends that he, as well as other fans, "suffered economic damages" as a result of paying a premium price for a ticket that shouldn't cost more.

Please point out which part of the above is inaccurate?

He has a valid point. Pop did send the players home w/out the knowledge of the league, the team and the fans attending the game. The fans did pay a premium price for a ticket that shouldn't cost more.
He has a valid argument. People pay good money to see the best players in the world. When a coach decides his players are not going to play even though said players are healthy - then it is a ripoff. If I had paid for a ticket and a coach sat out his best players - I would also feel ripped off.

Truth.

Why are you so emotional about this and resorting to insults? Are you paying for this suit? Spurs fans take this too personal. I am just stating the truth.

[The_Worlds_finest]

The dumbass lawyer is referring to the dumbass fans who purchased scalped tickets at premium...good luck proving damages

[Hoops Czar]

You really are being obtuse, aren't you? You suggested that the games I linked were not relevant because of when they occurred during the season. The games I posted are every bit as relevant as the game under discussion, to the extent that there is anything worthy of litigation in this instance. Your suggestion that caveat emptor applies to certain basketball ticket purchases more than others is bizarre, to say the least.

Continue on with the strawman act if you like but meaningless games in April aren't subject to litigation because its fact that teams rest players at season's end to rest up for the playoffs and prevent injuries This has been going on for years. It's unprecedented that a team would strategically hold out healthy players in a nationally televised November game when they're were many other alternatives available. And none of those teams including the Spurs in late April were fined $250,000 for resting players either.

[Hoops Czar]

Isn't forcing players to play involuntary servitude? Tired, aging players at that..

Tony Parker and Danny Green would dissagree.

[DapDaGenius]

Isn't forcing players to play involuntary servitude? Tired, aging players at that..

Exactly, I don't see how they could bitch so much when they should know that the older players need a rest every now and then.

I could understand them complaining about Danny Green leaving but most people don't know that he suffers from chronic jock itch. He even stated that his CJI flared up as being the reason he got to leave with TP, TD and Manu. The reasoning for his CJI is because he simply doesn't wash down there...EVER. Go figure.

[Mel_13]

On Monday, Larry McGuinness filed a class action suit in Miami-Dade County, stating that the team's head coach, Gregg Popovich, "intentionally and surrepticiously" sent their best players home without the knowledge of the league, the team and the fans attending the Nov. 29 game against the Heat. McGuinness contends that he, as well as other fans, "suffered economic damages" as a result of paying a premium price for a ticket that shouldn't cost more.

Please point out which part of the above is inaccurate?


The portion in bold is inaccurate. He purchased a ticket to see the Spurs play the Heat at a certain date and time. He went to the arena on that date at that time and saw the Spurs play the Heat. As a bonus, he saw a close game that went down to wire and was won by the home team.

As to the premium price bit, the article states that lawyer bought the ticket on the resale market, not directly from the team.

[DapDaGenius]

Tony Parker and Danny Green would dissagree.

So they can't tired? :rolleyes

[Reck]

The portion in bold is inaccurate. He purchased a ticket to see the Spurs play the Heat at a certain date and time. He went to the arena on that date at that time and saw the Spurs play the Heat. As a bonus, he saw a close game that went down to wire and was won by the home team.

As to the premium price bit, the article states that lawyer bought the ticket on the resale market, not directly from the team.

That mystix fag just doesn't get it. He'll spin what you just said and make some other idiotic shit up.

I'd not waste my time with him if I were you.

[Mel_13]

Continue on with the strawman act if you like but meaningless games in April aren't subject to litigation because its fact that teams rest players at season's end to rest up for the playoffs and prevent injuries This has been going on for years. It's unprecedented that a team would strategically hold out healthy players in a nationally televised November game when they're were many other alternatives available. And none of those teams including the Spurs in late April were fined $250,000 for resting players either.

If you believe that a individual fan has a legal case for damages for a game played in November, but not for a game played in April, then there is no point in the continuing the discussion. It's a bizarre point of view and you're entitled to hold it, but I assure you that it is not a legally supportable position.

Oh, and if you don't know what a strawman is, you probably shouldn't use the term.

[Brunodf]

:troll

[TrainOfThought5]

that was either was some sublime trolling.. or that guy is a complete retard.

[ace3g]

Max Sports talked to the guy:

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_187.shtml

[SayTown]

My name is Gregg. I coach the San Antonio Cube Steaks.
Gregory Popovich ‏@FakeCoachPop (https://twitter.com/FakeCoachPop)

[Samr.]

See this is EXACTLY the type of reason why I quit law school after the first year. In fact, this will now be by go-to example for why I did.

Forgive my over-generalization of this because I'm going to lay out the legal ramifications of all this in "layman's terms" here....

Issue 1: Spurs' Contractual Obligations:

Coaches are contracted by the teams to COACH, by definition meaning to use their discretion regarding gameplay strategy for the betterment of the team. Pop satisfied this contractual obligation ("coaching") by resting his players.

Thus, Issue 2: Breach of Contract and Spurs' Affirmative Defense:

By Stern fining the the Spurs for their coach doing what he was contractually obligated to do, Stern is in effect fining the Spurs for their employee NOT BREACHING his contract. (This fine would most likely fall under "unconscionability," and it would absolutely shock me if the Spurs/players association had not filed suit against the league for the Spurs' fine on that basis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability)

Issue 3: Stern Gives Lawyer Standing but Still Improper Venue:

In order to successfully file suit court, you have to have two things:

1) "Standing," which means you need to have a 'rational' (in as much as one can objectify what it means to be 'rational') basis for the suit. Plaintiff DOES have this element, because $tern fining the Spurs "shows" that they did something wrong, thus someone must have been 'injured,' and thus their is a rational basis to bring the suit. Plaintiff does not have to show that there was a rational basis for $tern's actions (the fine); merely that there was a rational basis for plaintiff's actions (the suit). IF $tern had not fined the Spurs, there would be no standing and thus the case would be thrown out immediately. However, the case still fails because of...

2) You must file the suit in the proper venue. Spurs Sports and Entertainment would be the proper company (holding company) to sue. Due to various taxation legalities, more than likely they're incorporated in a state other than Texas. So this lawyer needs to file in FEDERAL court, not state court. If he files in STATE court, the suit will be thrown out for lack standing, improper venue, and being a frivolous lawsuit. In that event, plaintiff will have to pay SS&E's legal fees. UNLESS this lawyer took the case on a contingent fee basis, which means the attorney will only get paid if the plaintiff wins; if not, his legal fees might as well be pro bono work.... Basically, for this lawyer, filing in a FL state court, he's essentially going to pay a hefty price for some advertising for his firm.

Issue 3: DTPA (deceptive trade practices act) Does NOT Govern Case at Hand as claimed by plaintiff's lawyer; HOWEVER, ESPN et. al. MIGHT be at Fault:


Again over-simplifying here, but NBA games are listed on the tickets (legal jargon: "consideration") as "Spurs vs. Heat," NOT "Duncan, Parker, Ginobili vs. Heat." IF tickets did read that, then a suit under the DTPA might succeed. However, anyone who has ever attended any law school class ever even while hungover and under the influence of boredom can still tell you that DTPA does not govern the case at hand. HOWEVER, the plaintiff might have a DTPA or detrimental reliance/breach of contract case against a company such as ESPN if the plaintiff can show that they purchased the game tickets after an ESPN et. al. broadcast advertising "Come see Tim Duncan and the San Antonio Spurs take on a group of the three stooges of public relations and their supporting cast of has-beens looking for rings!"

(Black and) Silver Lining:

This suit is gonna bring a Robert Tractor Traylor load of free press to the Spurs, and thus more revenue for one Peter Holt.

So you can thank that lawyer who took his frivilous lawsuits to south beach when the Spurs "all of the sudden" have a little more financial flexibility from Holt -- all of that lawyer's hard work is going to earn the Spurs enough free press to cover luxury tax payments for at least a season or two.

[Hoops Czar]

If you believe that a individual fan has a legal case for damages for a game played in November, but not for a game played in April, then there is no point in the continuing the discussion. It's a bizarre point of view and you're entitled to hold it, but I assure you that it is not a legally supportable position.

Oh, and if you don't know what a strawman is, you probably shouldn't use the term.

Mel_13 is a strawman. Where did I say the man had the "legal" right to sue for damages? The man has no more legal right to sue than the woman who sued Mcdonalds for $1 million dollars for spilling hot coffee on her leg, but alas, we live in a sue happy society. However, if a man feels robbed of cash and he wants to try to recoup some of his losses by hiring a lawyer, that's on him. But don't act like all regular season games are one in the same. It's a fact and understood league-wide that teams rest players at the end of the season when there is nothing left to play for, not so much in late November games and hours before tip-off of a nationally televised game. I can't believe this is your argument.

oh, and, and I love how you take a snipet of my post and take a stand. I'll say one last time before I end this, If heathy players can be rested at anytime, any game for any reason without league notification, then don't jack up the ticket prices when a contender comes to town.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how about fans that paid good money to go watch dancing bear, but pop rarely plays him, should they start sueing...

[Hoops Czar]

Max Sports talked to the guy:

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_187.shtml

Most negative feedback coming from the San Antonio area. Go figure.

[cd98]

Fails for two reasons. First, Heat made the rep that Spurs stars would play. If there is a lawsuit it would be against the team that made the representation.

Two, your damages are what you paid for the ticket. No money there. This is a way to her your name out there, nothing more.

[Libri]

Can I sue the guy? Reading about his lawsuit is causing me emotional distress.

[cd98]

Looked it up. He's a personal injury lawyer. This is all about free press. It's cheaper than advertising in a phone book and gets more attention. He knows his lawsuit is garbage. But the free press is worth $$$$.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Looked it up. He's a personal injury lawyer. This is all about free press. It's cheaper than advertising in a phone book and gets more attention. He knows his lawsuit is garbage. But the free press is worth $$$$.

All that free press just to let the world know what a fucking incompetent lawyer he really is? Not a very smart move tbh.

[ploto]

Two, your damages are what you paid for the ticket. No money there.

Class action suit -- He is looking to sue on behalf of anyone and everyone who purchased a ticket to the game. He gets to collect his large fees and they all get a few bucks.

[BadOne]

The state is butt hurt over blowing the Casey Anthony case perhaps. What an epic FAIL. I hope this lawyer becomes the laughing stock among his peers.

[Old School 44]

Lawyers...gotta love them. If anybody should be sued it should be the Heat and anybody who sells "premium" tickets. What does that mean? The Heat can't guarantee who plays for the opposition. If row 10, seat 20, cost $500 dollars at American Airlines Arena for the Spurs, then that should be the price for that seat for the Bobcats game and any other game. If the Heat charge a "premium $500 dollars for the Spurs, do I get to pay $5 dollars for the same seat when the crappy Bobcats are in town?

[Mel_13]

Lawyers...gotta love them. If anybody should be sued it should be the Heat and anybody who sells "premium" tickets. What does that mean? The Heat can't guarantee who plays for the opposition. If row 10, seat 20, cost $500 dollars at American Airlines Arena for the Spurs, then that should be the price for that seat for the Bobcats game and any other game. If the Heat charge a "premium $500 dollars for the Spurs, do I get to pay $5 dollars for the same seat when the crappy Bobcats are in town?

The article said that the lawyer bought his ticket on the resale market, so I'm not sure how he has a gripe personally with the premium pricing.

As to the practice of dynamic pricing, where the same seat is priced differently depending on expected and actual demand, it's become a fairly common practice. The Spurs do it for their home games. Tickets for the Lakers, Thunder, and Heat are priced higher than tickets for the Bucks, Kings, and Bobcats. Furthermore, the prices can go up or down as the day of the game approaches based on actual sales. To be clear, I'm not talking about secondary markets like Stubhub, I'm talking about buying the tickets directly from the Spurs. It's simply a business practice to maximize ticket revenue.

[Man In Black]

What cracks me up about this is that America's largest organization of sports journalists and fact-checkers totally missed the fact that this word, surrepticiously is incorrectly spelled,

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surreptitiously?s=t

Losers...it's spelled surreptitiously. Which means done in secret.

Hey 4 letter...learn how to spell you big market pansies.

[xellos88330]

If people like him weren't trying to take money from the Spurs then perhaps the Spurs could have more money to hire players that don't need rest during the season. Perhaps we should sue him and the lawyers for it. Hell, sue the entire friggin NBA for marketing superstars and not the team thereby making San Antonio a less than desireable place to play basketball professionally.

[silverblk mystix]

That mystix fag just doesn't get it. He'll spin what you just said and make some other idiotic shit up.

I'd not waste my time with him if I were you.


Listen, you are upset that I re-buffed your homo advances via PM - so don't project your little fantasies here. Sorry - I don't swing that way - but nice try, creepy -though. :lmao

[silverblk mystix]

Mel_13 is a strawman. Where did I say the man had the "legal" right to sue for damages? The man has no more legal right to sue than the woman who sued Mcdonalds for $1 million dollars for spilling hot coffee on her leg, but alas, we live in a sue happy society. However, if a man feels robbed of cash and he wants to try to recoup some of his losses by hiring a lawyer, that's on him. But don't act like all regular season games are one in the same. It's a fact and understood league-wide that teams rest players at the end of the season when there is nothing left to play for, not so much in late November games and hours before tip-off of a nationally televised game. I can't believe this is your argument.

oh, and, and I love how you take a snipet of my post and take a stand. I'll say one last time before I end this, If heathy players can be rested at anytime, any game for any reason without league notification, then don't jack up the ticket prices when a contender comes to town.

You sound like someone who speaks before knowing the facts.

A lot of people throw out that case by the woman & mcdonalds and you don't know anything about the case.

[Reck]

Listen, you are upset that I re-buffed your homo advances via PM - so don't project your little fantasies here. Sorry - I don't swing that way - but nice try, creepy -though. :lmao

LOL wtf.

You're retarded and a faggot to boot. rofl

[Hoops Czar]

You sound like someone who speaks before knowing the facts.

A lot of people throw out that case by the woman & mcdonalds and you don't know anything about the case.You sound like someone who doesn't know the facts at all. And while we're on the subject of 'pot meet kettle', I was actually refering to frivilous lawsuits such as the case against the Spurs. I don't know what you mean by a lot of people threw out the case, but it went to trial and she was originally rewarded 160,000 from a jury for compensatory damages and 2.7 million in punitive damages. The judge reduced the punitive damages to $480,00 after negotiations. In the end, she walked away with $640,000. Does that sound like a case that was thrown out of court? You're right about one thing, I buttered it up a bit. It wasn't her leg, but her 79 year old crotch that received third degree burns. Mcdonalds shouldn't have been liable for anything unless you're in the minority that likes to drink coffee cold. Cars have cupholders for a reason. You don't need to put a hot cup of coffee between your legs to remove the lid.

[Mel_13]

Mel_13 is a strawman. Where did I say the man had the "legal" right to sue for damages? The man has no more legal right to sue than the woman who sued Mcdonalds for $1 million dollars for spilling hot coffee on her leg, but alas, we live in a sue happy society. However, if a man feels robbed of cash and he wants to try to recoup some of his losses by hiring a lawyer, that's on him. But don't act like all regular season games are one in the same. It's a fact and understood league-wide that teams rest players at the end of the season when there is nothing left to play for, not so much in late November games and hours before tip-off of a nationally televised game. I can't believe this is your argument.

oh, and, and I love how you take a snipet of my post and take a stand. I'll say one last time before I end this, If heathy players can be rested at anytime, any game for any reason without league notification, then don't jack up the ticket prices when a contender comes to town.

You're still quite confused by what a strawman is, by what is at issue in this thread, and now you apparently are also confused by the bizarre reasoning you have attempted to apply here. As I suggested earlier, you can bump one of the restgate threads if want to beat that dead horse.

[Hoops Czar]

You're still quite confused by what a strawman is, by what is at issue in this thread, and now you apparently are also confused by the bizarre reasoning you have attempted to apply here. As I suggested earlier, you can bump one of the restgate threads if want to beat that dead horse.

I'm not the one confused. If I'm speaking too fast, I'll sloooooow it down for you. I was attacking your frivolous post about resting players in late April games as opposed to resting them in November which is complete poppycock. Whether or not you care to believe it, this lawsuit falls right onto the shoulders of restgate. Had Pop played his starters, they're wouldn't have been a $250,000 fine levied against the Spurs and a frivolous class action lawsuit. The two actually go hand in hand. And I'll tell you what, I'm going to use my phsychic abilities to let you know that once again, playoff teams will rest players at the end of the season like they do every year prior to the playoffs and nothing will come of it. This way Mel, it won't come as a complete surprise to you. And you still haven't answered my original post. Find me a November or December game where a coach intentionally sat out his original starting five. This lawsuit exists because of INTENT.

[silverblk mystix]

You sound like someone who doesn't know the facts at all. And while we're on the subject of 'pot meet kettle', I was actually refering to frivilous lawsuits such as the case against the Spurs. I don't know what you mean by a lot of people threw out the case, but it went to trial and she was originally rewarded 160,000 from a jury for compensatory damages and 2.7 million in punitive damages. The judge reduced the punitive damages to $480,00 after negotiations. In the end, she walked away with $640,000. Does that sound like a case that was thrown out of court? You're right about one thing, I buttered it up a bit. It wasn't her leg, but her 79 year old crotch that received third degree burns. Mcdonalds shouldn't have been liable for anything unless you're in the minority that likes to drink coffee cold. Cars have cupholders for a reason. You don't need to put a hot cup of coffee between your legs to remove the lid.


Here is what you threw out;

The man has no more legal right to sue than the woman who sued Mcdonalds for $1 million dollars for spilling hot coffee on her leg, but alas, we live in a sue happy society.


Means you don't know what you are saying. The woman had every right to sue and she had a legitimate case - but you said basically the opposite.

And what's up with the personal attacks?

Stick to the facts if you have any or don't try if you need to resort to insults and attacks - it makes you look pretty desperate.

[Mel_13]

I'm not the one confused. If I'm speaking too fast, I'll sloooooow it down for you. I was attacking your frivolous post about resting players in late April games as opposed to resting them in November which is complete poppycock. Whether or not you care to believe it, this lawsuit falls right onto the shoulders of restgate. Had Pop played his starters, they're wouldn't have been a $250,000 fine levied against the Spurs and a frivolous class action lawsuit. The two actually go hand in hand. And I'll tell you what, I'm going to use my phsychic abilities to let you know that once again, playoff teams will rest players at the end of the season like they do every year prior to the playoffs and nothing will come of it. This way Mel, it won't come as a complete surprise to you. And you still haven't answered my original post. Find me a November or December game where a coach intentionally sat out his original starting five. This lawsuit exists because of INTENT.

I said what I wanted to say about restgate in November. Bump one of those threads if you would like to take issue with anything I said there. It is, however, good to see that you agree with my very first, and primary, point in this thread. That the case discussed in this thread is a frivolous lawsuit. Glad to have you on board.

[Seventyniner]

Mel_13 is a strawman.

:rollin:rollin:rollin
That just made my day.

[carina_gino20]

This is the can of worms David Stern opened when he fined the Spurs for failing to take their talents to South Beach and doing a great "disservice to the fans."

[Hoops Czar]

Here is what you threw out;

The man has no more legal right to sue than the woman who sued Mcdonalds for $1 million dollars for spilling hot coffee on her leg, but alas, we live in a sue happy society.

Means you don't know what you are saying. The woman had every right to sue and she had a legitimate case - but you said basically the opposite.

And what's up with the personal attacks?

Stick to the facts if you have any or don't try if you need to resort to insults and attacks - it makes you look pretty desperate.

The lady spilled hot coffee on her crotch sitting in a parked car in the passenger seat. She had the coffee between her legs as she attempted remove the lid. Did she not realize the coffee would be hot? Cars have cupholders for a reason. The incicident should have never taken place had she used better judgement. This is the true definition of a frivolous lawsuit. I'm not sure what you mean by personal attacks. Though not my intention, my bad if you misinterpreted part of my post.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

a lot of bullshit

So, which side do you think will win this lawsuit?

[Russo21]

Hah that is so unbelievably fucked. I'm gonna sue this guy for making me sad. :(

[Russo21]

You know i don't remember back in the day veteran's taking games off to rest.

Jordan played 82 games in his last years in 96, 97, 98 (not accounting his stupid wizards days)
Malone played 82, 81, 80, 81 games in his last 4 years (not accounting his ring chasing laker season)
Stockton played 82 games in each of his last 4 years

Is this resting thing a new fad or have teams star players been doing it for years and guys like that were just freaks of nature? I just can't recall stars of yesteryear taking games off to chill.

[silverblk mystix]

The lady spilled hot coffee on her crotch sitting in a parked car in the passenger seat. She had the coffee between her legs as she attempted remove the lid. Did she not realize the coffee would be hot? Cars have cupholders for a reason. The incicident should have never taken place had she used better judgement. This is the true definition of a frivolous lawsuit. I'm not sure what you mean by personal attacks. Though not my intention, my bad if you misinterpreted part of my post.



McDonalds had been cited numerous times for keeping their coffee over a certain temperature-way over a certain temperature. They refused to change it. They were repeatedly warned that -that temperature could cause severe 3rd degree burns -they refused to change.

McD's was also offered a smaller settlement option to keep from going to trial. They refused several offers.

The plaintiff spent several days in the hospital and was charged a ton of hospital charges and she suffered severe burns to her crotch area.

What is frivolous about all this?

[therealtruth]

You know i don't remember back in the day veteran's taking games off to rest.

Jordan played 82 games in his last years in 96, 97, 98 (not accounting his stupid wizards days)
Malone played 82, 81, 80, 81 games in his last 4 years (not accounting his ring chasing laker season)
Stockton played 82 games in each of his last 4 years

Is this resting thing a new fad or have teams star players been doing it for years and guys like that were just freaks of nature? I just can't recall stars of yesteryear taking games off to chill.

It's a something that Pop started because he believes it helps him win a championship.

[Mel_13]

It's a something that Pop started because he believes it helps him win a championship.

Pop invented resting veteran players? Ok.

[ambchang]

Actually fans. It's class action.

[ambchang]

Can season ticket holders sue after a star player is traded mid-season?

[ThaBigFundamental21]

How much money did he actually lose? The Spurs ought to cover his tickets and fuel costs and tell him to fuck himself. Make him look bad lol. But let me guess, the pain of not watching the "boring Spurs" scarred him and his daughter and they are now suffering emotional damage and have to seek counseling?

[Creation88]

i'm a Cowboys fan...i should get refunded for the last 16 years

[JingleJangleJingle]

i'm a Cowboys fan...i should get refunded for the last 16 years

it's been shitty but entertaining

[timvp]

Czar's confusion and the forced contrarianism by mystix ruined this thread, thb.

[buttsR4rebounding]

We should get together and file a class action suit against Stern for interferring with the Spurs chance to win a championship and reducing our enjoyment as Spurs fans.

[silverblk mystix]

Czar's confusion and the forced contrarianism by mystix ruined this thread, thb.


Nothing forced. Playing devil's advocate.

Does anyone remember college 101 debates?

C'mon. There are two sides. Pick one and make a reasonable argument and see what happens. In here, you say something and ten posters jump in and call you stupid, faggot, blah-blah....


Just try to have a decent debate. Is that so difficult?

These guys get paid way too much to be tired.

Pop is wrong.Period.

[spurs10]

Nothing forced. Playing devil's advocate.

Does anyone remember college 101 debates?

C'mon. There are two sides. Pick one and make a reasonable argument and see what happens. In here, you say something and ten posters jump in and call you stupid, faggot, blah-blah....


Just try to have a decent debate. Is that so difficult?

These guys get paid way too much to be tired.

Pop is wrong.Period.
Being tired and getting well paid are not mutually exclusive:lol
Surely, you are not advocating playing your guys until they collapse. If so, we should eliminate time-outs and just play 5 players until one of them is removed on a stretcher. Couldn't you just rent a Russell Crowe or Kirk Douglas film or something??

[FromWayDowntown]

From a legal standpoint, I struggle to see how this notion has a leg to stand upon. By purchasing the ticket in the secondary market, the lead plaintiff doesn't have a direct contractual or quasi-contractual relationship with the Spurs, the Heat, or the NBA. He's a third party beneficiary (perhaps) of the original ticket purchaser and could prevail on his claim only if the deceptive trade practices law of Florida or Texas (or perhaps New York, if the NBA is ever formally made a party to this action) allows someone with an attenuated relationship to the original transaction to sue on that theory. I'm not inclined to go looking for the specific answer to that question, but it's not a sure thing that any of those jurisdictions would recognize the sort of recovery this guy seeks.

Beyond that, it seems highly likely to me that the Heat (not the Spurs) set the higher price for the tickets to the Spurs/Heat game in Miami; the Spurs can't be said (I don't think) to have induced any sort of reliance that would support a claim for deceptive trade practices. If his theory is valid, if a prestigious team trades a star player at the deadline before its only visit to a particular city, the purchasers of tickets with inflated prices (based presumably upon the involvement of that star player) to that game would presumably have a basis to pursue and action against the visiting team for having deprived the purchaser of the value of the tickets. (for what it's worth, he's trying to narrowly define the circumstances in which his theory would apply by claiming that there was, effectively, no notice to ticket holders that the Spurs' stars would not appear for that game; my guess is that he would argue that had he known some reasonable time in advance, he would have been able to sell the tickets or something along those lines).

And, of course, as others have noted, there is the issue of the disclaimers that accompany NBA tickets and do away with any representation that particular players will perform in particular games.

There are other facets to the legal dispute, but those are pretty fundamental reasons why I think this claim is ultimately a loser from a purely legal standpoint.

I'd note, however, that from a practical standpoint, the effort to assemble a class is (potentially) more problematic. Ultimately, his goal -- I suspect -- is to identify a class of individuals who bought tickets to that game; suggest to the Spurs and any other defendant parties that while they might prevail in the litigation, it will be a bloody battle to do so; convince the defendants to settle for some relatively nominal compensation; and then convince the court to award him (as class counsel) substantial attorneys fees for his work. There are 4 basic requirements in most jurisdictions for certifying a class and I'd think that he can surmount that hurdle pretty easily because the class members will have common claims, he or someone else who purchased tickets at an inflated price can adequately represent those claims (assuming there were actually sales from the Heat to the public at higher rates), those claims will likely be typical of those of the other class members, and there would be more than 19,000 potential claimants who could comprise the class (or at least there would be however many claimants paid more than the usual price directly to the Heat for those tickets). He could have just enough there to make this a nuisance that requires a settlement.

[silverblk mystix]

Being tired and getting well paid are not mutually exclusive:lol
Surely, you are not advocating playing your guys until they collapse. If so, we should eliminate time-outs and just play 5 players until one of them is removed on a stretcher. Couldn't you just rent a Russell Crowe or Kirk Douglas film or something??


Well, it doesn't have to be the extreme either does it?

What about just play them if they are not injured?

Simple.

They were not injured and Pop just tried to be sneaky and it bit him in the ass. Pop is also pussifying the team and has been for years. No wonder then- that all the "superstars" are always getting injured.

Pop used to be about "no excuses" and "every team plays 82 games" and the results were 4 titles.

Suddenly Pop starts getting careful and protective and now he is too scared to just coach normally - he thinks he also has to babysit,coddle and protect too.

Fail.

[timvp]

^Pop started "coddling" players back in 2005. Remember the Robert Sarver "chicken" game? Those two championships after that game were kinda cool, IMO.

Anyways, this thread isn't about whether Pop is right or wrong to manage minutes. It's about the laughable lawsuit. Re-bump an older threat to whine about how Pop coaches, thanks.

[silverblk mystix]

^Pop started "coddling" players back in 2005. Remember the Robert Sarver "chicken" game? Those two championships after that game were kinda cool, IMO.

Anyways, this thread isn't about whether Pop is right or wrong to manage minutes. It's about the laughable lawsuit. Re-bump an older threat to whine about how Pop coaches, thanks.


The lawsuit is legit. Not talking big money or something exaggerated - but it is a legit suit in principle. Just say you want yes-men- in here then if you can't stand someone with a different view.

[silverblk mystix]

...and/or go look at the Miami/Spurs game thread and you will see I had the same view when it went down.

[timvp]

The lawsuit is legit. Not talking big money or something exaggerated - but it is a legit suit in principle. Just say you want yes-men- in here then if you can't stand someone with a different view.

I just asked if this thread could remain on topic. And your first two sentences complied with that request. Thanks; no need to get emotional.

[timvp]

...and/or go look at the Miami/Spurs game thread and you will see I had the same view when it went down.

Sounds like a good threat to bump if you want to travel down the tangent regarding whether Pop's coaching move is a positive managerial tactic. :tu

[silverblk mystix]

I just asked if this thread could remain on topic. And your first two sentences complied with that request. Thanks; no need to get emotional.

Not getting emotional at all. Just trying to have a debate on the lawsuit and its merits or lack therof. Thanks.

[vy65]

See this is EXACTLY the type of reason why I quit law school after the first year. In fact, this will now be by go-to example for why I did.

Forgive my over-generalization of this because I'm going to lay out the legal ramifications of all this in "layman's terms" here....

Issue 1: Spurs' Contractual Obligations:

Coaches are contracted by the teams to COACH, by definition meaning to use their discretion regarding gameplay strategy for the betterment of the team. Pop satisfied this contractual obligation ("coaching") by resting his players.

Thus, Issue 2: Breach of Contract and Spurs' Affirmative Defense:

By Stern fining the the Spurs for their coach doing what he was contractually obligated to do, Stern is in effect fining the Spurs for their employee NOT BREACHING his contract. (This fine would most likely fall under "unconscionability," and it would absolutely shock me if the Spurs/players association had not filed suit against the league for the Spurs' fine on that basis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability)

Issue 3: Stern Gives Lawyer Standing but Still Improper Venue:

In order to successfully file suit court, you have to have two things:

1) "Standing," which means you need to have a 'rational' (in as much as one can objectify what it means to be 'rational') basis for the suit. Plaintiff DOES have this element, because $tern fining the Spurs "shows" that they did something wrong, thus someone must have been 'injured,' and thus their is a rational basis to bring the suit. Plaintiff does not have to show that there was a rational basis for $tern's actions (the fine); merely that there was a rational basis for plaintiff's actions (the suit). IF $tern had not fined the Spurs, there would be no standing and thus the case would be thrown out immediately. However, the case still fails because of...

2) You must file the suit in the proper venue. Spurs Sports and Entertainment would be the proper company (holding company) to sue. Due to various taxation legalities, more than likely they're incorporated in a state other than Texas. So this lawyer needs to file in FEDERAL court, not state court. If he files in STATE court, the suit will be thrown out for lack standing, improper venue, and being a frivolous lawsuit. In that event, plaintiff will have to pay SS&E's legal fees. UNLESS this lawyer took the case on a contingent fee basis, which means the attorney will only get paid if the plaintiff wins; if not, his legal fees might as well be pro bono work.... Basically, for this lawyer, filing in a FL state court, he's essentially going to pay a hefty price for some advertising for his firm.

Issue 3: DTPA (deceptive trade practices act) Does NOT Govern Case at Hand as claimed by plaintiff's lawyer; HOWEVER, ESPN et. al. MIGHT be at Fault:


Again over-simplifying here, but NBA games are listed on the tickets (legal jargon: "consideration") as "Spurs vs. Heat," NOT "Duncan, Parker, Ginobili vs. Heat." IF tickets did read that, then a suit under the DTPA might succeed. However, anyone who has ever attended any law school class ever even while hungover and under the influence of boredom can still tell you that DTPA does not govern the case at hand. HOWEVER, the plaintiff might have a DTPA or detrimental reliance/breach of contract case against a company such as ESPN if the plaintiff can show that they purchased the game tickets after an ESPN et. al. broadcast advertising "Come see Tim Duncan and the San Antonio Spurs take on a group of the three stooges of public relations and their supporting cast of has-beens looking for rings!"

(Black and) Silver Lining:

This suit is gonna bring a Robert Tractor Traylor load of free press to the Spurs, and thus more revenue for one Peter Holt.

So you can thank that lawyer who took his frivilous lawsuits to south beach when the Spurs "all of the sudden" have a little more financial flexibility from Holt -- all of that lawyer's hard work is going to earn the Spurs enough free press to cover luxury tax payments for at least a season or two.

Did you "quit" law school because you just failed out?

[timvp]

Not getting emotional at all. Just trying to have a debate on the lawsuit and its merits or lack therof. Thanks.

Sounds like a plan. Thanks.

So, do you think he'll win?

[vy65]

From a legal standpoint, I struggle to see how this notion has a leg to stand upon. By purchasing the ticket in the secondary market, the lead plaintiff doesn't have a direct contractual or quasi-contractual relationship with the Spurs, the Heat, or the NBA. He's a third party beneficiary (perhaps) of the original ticket purchaser and could prevail on his claim only if the deceptive trade practices law of Florida or Texas (or perhaps New York, if the NBA is ever formally made a party to this action) allows someone with an attenuated relationship to the original transaction to sue on that theory. I'm not inclined to go looking for the specific answer to that question, but it's not a sure thing that any of those jurisdictions would recognize the sort of recovery this guy seeks.

Beyond that, it seems highly likely to me that the Heat (not the Spurs) set the higher price for the tickets to the Spurs/Heat game in Miami; the Spurs can't be said (I don't think) to have induced any sort of reliance that would support a claim for deceptive trade practices. If his theory is valid, if a prestigious team trades a star player at the deadline before its only visit to a particular city, the purchasers of tickets with inflated prices (based presumably upon the involvement of that star player) to that game would presumably have a basis to pursue and action against the visiting team for having deprived the purchaser of the value of the tickets. (for what it's worth, he's trying to narrowly define the circumstances in which his theory would apply by claiming that there was, effectively, no notice to ticket holders that the Spurs' stars would not appear for that game; my guess is that he would argue that had he known some reasonable time in advance, he would have been able to sell the tickets or something along those lines).

And, of course, as others have noted, there is the issue of the disclaimers that accompany NBA tickets and do away with any representation that particular players will perform in particular games.

There are other facets to the legal dispute, but those are pretty fundamental reasons why I think this claim is ultimately a loser from a purely legal standpoint.

I'd note, however, that from a practical standpoint, the effort to assemble a class is (potentially) more problematic. Ultimately, his goal -- I suspect -- is to identify a class of individuals who bought tickets to that game; suggest to the Spurs and any other defendant parties that while they might prevail in the litigation, it will be a bloody battle to do so; convince the defendants to settle for some relatively nominal compensation; and then convince the court to award him (as class counsel) substantial attorneys fees for his work. There are 4 basic requirements in most jurisdictions for certifying a class and I'd think that he can surmount that hurdle pretty easily because the class members will have common claims, he or someone else who purchased tickets at an inflated price can adequately represent those claims (assuming there were actually sales from the Heat to the public at higher rates), those claims will likely be typical of those of the other class members, and there would be more than 19,000 potential claimants who could comprise the class (or at least there would be however many claimants paid more than the usual price directly to the Heat for those tickets). He could have just enough there to make this a nuisance that requires a settlement.

I tend to agree that this will probably be summarily thrown out. Clearly there's no contractual or quasi-contractual relationship between ticket purchasers and the Spurs. But it seems like the basis for the suit is Florida's Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act. And unfortunately, from my 5 minute quick research, it looks like there's no need to prove reasonable reliance in connection with a class action claim brought under the Act:

[vy65]

We begin with the damages issue. If the plaintiffs' claims for damages under the Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act were like claims for fraud, as the trial court reasoned, we would agree that they could not be asserted on behalf of a class. Multiple claims of intrinsic fraud cannot meet the test of commonality under rule 1.220(a)(2), because the issue of reliance is unique to each person who is alleged to have been defrauded. See Osceola Groves, Inc. v. Wiley, 78 So.2d 700 (Fla.1955); Lance v. Wade, 457 So.2d 1008 (Fla.1984). However, we conclude that there is a critical difference between a deceptive trade practice claim and a claim of fraud. A party asserting a deceptive trade practice claim need not show actual reliance on the representation or omission at issue. Hence, the impediment to class litigation that exists for multiple intrinsic fraud claims does not exist in the present case.

974*974 The Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act provides that an aggrieved party may initiate a civil action against a party who has engaged in "unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce," but it does not define the elements of such an action. See § 501.204(1), Fla. Stat. (1999). Instead, the statute provides that the Florida courts must give "due consideration and great weight" to Federal Trade Commission and federal court interpretations of section 5(a)(1) of the Federal Trade Commission Act, 15 U.S.C § 45(a)(1). See § 501.204(2), Fla. Stat. (1999). According to the federal decisions, a deceptive practice is one that is "likely to mislead" consumers. See In re International Harvester Co., 104 F.T.C. 949 (1984); In the Matter of Cliffdale Assocs., Inc., 103 F.T.C. 110 (1984); Southwest Sunsites, Inc. v. Federal Trade Comm'n, 785 F.2d 1431 (9th Cir.1986). This standard does not require subjective evidence of reliance, as would be the case with a common law action for fraud.

The objective test adopted by the Federal Trade Commission and the federal courts applies, as well, in a suit in state court under the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act. See Millennium Communications & Fulfillment, Inc. v. Office of the Attorney General, 761 So.2d 1256 (Fla. 3d DCA 2000).[1] The plaintiff need not prove the elements of fraud to sustain an action under the statute. See W.S. Badcock Corp. v. Myers, 696 So.2d 776 (Fla. 1st DCA 1996); Urling v. Helms Exterminators, Inc., 468 So.2d 451 (Fla. 1st DCA 1985). That is so because the question is not whether the plaintiff actually relied on the alleged deceptive trade practice, but whether the practice was likely to deceive a consumer acting reasonably in the same circumstances.

The standard of proving that an act is deceptive and therefore a violation of the statute is the same in a class action as it is in an action initiated by an individual consumer. As the court explained in Latman v. Costa Cruise Lines, N.V., 758 So.2d 699 (Fla. 3d DCA 2000), members of a class proceeding under the Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act need not prove individual reliance on the alleged representation. The Latman decision has been adopted in the State of Washington, see Pickett v. Holland America Line Westours, Inc., 101 Wash.App. 901, 6 P.3d 63 (2000), and other states have also held that individual proof of reliance is not required in class actions under comparable consumer statutes. See Oliveira v. Amoco Oil Co., 311 Ill.App.3d 886, 244 Ill.Dec. 455, 726 N.E.2d 51 (2000); Dix v. American Bankers Life Assurance Co. of Florida, 429 Mich. 410, 415 N.W.2d 206 (1987); Weinberg v. Sun Co., Inc., 740 A.2d 1152 (Pa.Super.Ct.1999).

We recognize that the "likely to mislead" standard was developed for use with the Federal Trade Commission Act, which has no provision for a suit by a private citizen. Perhaps the need for an objective standard such as this is greater if the action is one that must be pursued by a governmental agency on behalf of the consuming public. A private citizen would have a greater ability to demonstrate the harmful effect of the alleged deceptive trade practice in a given case. Nevertheless, the courts in Florida and other states have adopted the objective standard for private actions under similar consumer protection statutes. In the absence of a more specific provision, therefore, we must assume that the instruction in section 501.204(2) to rely on federal interpretations applies to both public and private actions under Chapter 501.

Based on these principles, we conclude that the claims for damages in this case can be asserted on behalf of a class 975*975 under rule 1.220(b)(3). All of the claims share one essential common feature; that is, the alleged defective practice reduced the value of the telephones. Because proof of reliance is unnecessary, the plaintiffs' inability to show reliance in every case cannot be used to justify a finding that individual issues will predominate over the class claims. Issues pertaining to the proof of the alleged deceptive practice and issues relating to causation and damages will be common to all members of the class.

Davis v. Powertel, Inc., 776 So. 2d 971 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 1st Dist. 2000

I didn't read this with much scrutiny, so I could be very very wrong. But it looks like FWD's fears about this being a nuissance substantial enough to spur a settlement might be well founded. I'd be curious as to what the Spur's insurance coverage is and whether it'd cover something like this. I'd also imagine there'd be some kind of indemnity agreement between the league and the Spurs.

[silverblk mystix]

Did you "quit" law school because you just failed out?


It might be better if he quit if he gets/got disgusted with the practical application of the law. This is a good point with a lawsuit like this one by the Miami Heat fan/attorney...the fact that it seems frivolous or lacking in merit but it might turn out to be legit.

Sometimes some cases/suits appear to be ridiculous but when examined/debated/argued/judged - they actually turn out to be legit and/or warranted.

If you practice law you will have to let go of the outcomes and you will have to defend things you might not agree with...unless you don't want to get paid.

[cd98]

Too much legal briefing. At its core, any claim for fraud requires that the defendant make an actual representation that was not true. So if Pop or the Spurs organization told fans in Miami to come buy a ticket so they could see Ginoboli, Duncan, Parker, or Green play against the Heat on a particular date, then, in theory, this guy might have a claim against the Spurs. But the Spurs have not made that representation. Maybe the Heat did or the NBA did, but not the Spurs. So I'd say that this lawsuit is on weak ground to begin.

Even if you did find some tenuous connection between the Spurs and the Heat and who would play, I would not doubt for a minute that any agreement attached to purchasing tickets includes a waiver of representations about things like who will play. Honestly, that is pretty standard in contracts. Even if the ticket was purchased on a secondary market, the contractual agreement between the original parties would still be binding. A third party doesn't get a better deal than the original purchaser of the tickets. So I'd bet that this is an easy win for the NBA, the Heat, or the Spurs.

So why would this attorney file such a suit? And even more, why would he want a class action suit? Because he is a personal injury attorney and this is great exposure to his practice. He gets his name in the national news. Locally, he's probably a hero on sports radio. All it costs him is a hundred dollars to file the lawsuit. He'll be interviewed locally and nationally, on TV and radio. That's a bunch of free exposure. Even if his case is poured out, most people will just remember his name and that he filed suit. It's a great way to get business and more interesting and cheaper than advertising on TV, in the phone book, on the internet, or on the side of a bus.

This lawsuit will last about as long as the next Bobcat win streak.

[silverblk mystix]

Sounds like a plan. Thanks.

So, do you think he'll win?


Well Yes & No.

I mean he might prove that it is a legit gripe and he might get an exemplary ruling in his favor (like a ticket refund or a $1 judgement) so this would be a yes.

And...

He won't get big bucks and win a bunch of money for a bunch of disgruntled fans IMO - which would be the NO part.


I do think a couple of things make this a little interesting;

#1) Stern's fine against the Spurs can only help this guys case...

#2) The Spurs actually paying the fine - will also help his case.

[dunkman]

I think that Sterns comments and subsequent fine may make it easy to prove there was a wrong doing from part of the Spurs.

[pgardn]

All that free press just to let the world know what a fucking incompetent lawyer he really is? Not a very smart move tbh.

So The Texas Hammer should quit advertising because it does not work. Are you totally unaware of greed and how many idiots sign up with these personal injury scum? "The hammer got me 500 bucks after I got my eyelid caught under the leg of a chair. I also got someone to fight for me and respect my rights as a contortionist."

These advertisements and name recognition quite clearly work or said attorney (read parasite) would not pay for this crap. You will see one of these ads during almost every Spurs game.

Just because Shaqmeal would not use one of these shysters does not preclude others from doing so.

[hater]

I think that Sterns comments and subsequent fine may make it easy to prove there was a wrong doing from part of the Spurs.

that's what I been saying. This suit and the wave of next ones are all Stern's children.

Some analyst called the fine a "dangerous" precedent. This is why.

The interesting thing is why sue the Spurs and not the League? I am sure the lawyer considered both options. I mean, the tickets are actually printed by the league right? and the ticket $ goes to the league first?

another note, as Spurs were fined $1,000,000. SHouldn't that money go towards paying the suit? IMO the league took ownership of this when they fined the Spurs, at the same time they encouraged the suits. Good going fat motherfucker Stern

If this goes anywhere the sole culprit is Stern. He went away from ppl pay to see teams to ppl pay to see Stars. His head needs to roll.

[pgardn]

I think that Sterns comments and subsequent fine may make it easy to prove there was a wrong doing from part of the Spurs.

And if this thing gets through Florida it will get immediately tossed out on the Federal level. Then Stern will look like an even bigger fool. This frivolity goes absolutely nowhere.

[crc21209]

I :lol when I saw this article yesterday. I guess you can file a lawsuit for just about anything nowadays.....

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This should be laughed at by the judge and costs awarded against the plaintiff with extreme prejudice. Fucking BULLSHIT.

[Hoops Czar]

McDonalds had been cited numerous times for keeping their coffee over a certain temperature-way over a certain temperature. They refused to change it. They were repeatedly warned that -that temperature could cause severe 3rd degree burns -they refused to change.

McD's was also offered a smaller settlement option to keep from going to trial. They refused several offers.

The plaintiff spent several days in the hospital and was charged a ton of hospital charges and she suffered severe burns to her crotch area.

What is frivolous about all this?

Fyi, Star Bucks serves their coffee at 185°F and Tim Horton's ranges from 175°F- 185°F. What makes this case frivolous isn't the hardship she endured as a result, but the lack of common sense she applied to the situation such as the ill-advised practice of puting a hot cup of Joe between her legs instead of using a cup holder, and doing this despite the warning label on the side of the cup. Have we come to a point in time where people can sue for not using common sense?

[Hoops Czar]

I said what I wanted to say about restgate in November. Bump one of those threads if you would like to take issue with anything I said there. It is, however, good to see that you agree with my very first, and primary, point in this thread. That the case discussed in this thread is a frivolous lawsuit. Glad to have you on board.
Lol, just caught your reply. I agree with the frivolous lawsuit part, but that's not what I was arguing and you know that. Those two games you mentioned were end of the season games that had no bearing or implications on playoff positioning for that said team. The Heat were firmly locked into the second seed and didn't need to risk any unnecessary injuries to key players in meaningless games. And just for kicks, you threw in two games from last year's shortened and condensed season where Stern himself said he wasn't going to penalize teams for resting players. So, I'm not sure how much of a chance a lawyer would have of successfully filing a class action suit against any team for resting players in an atypical season. At the very most, fans should have been greatful there was a season played at all.

[exstatic]

Tony Parker and Danny Green would dissagree.


So they can't tired? :rolleyes

Green did, in fact, get shut down for 5 days with a hammy after only playing 17 minutes in the follow on game.

[exstatic]

My name is Gregg. I coach the San Antonio Cube Steaks.
Gregory Popovich ‏@FakeCoachPop (https://twitter.com/FakeCoachPop)

#winning :lol

[exstatic]

This is the can of worms David Stern opened when he fined the Spurs for failing to take their talents to South Beach and doing a great "disservice to the fans."

Yeah, the fucking NBA bridge troll really needs to donate that ridiculous $250K to the Spurs legal defense fund.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

This is the can of worms David Stern opened when he fined the Spurs for failing to take their talents to South Beach and doing a great "disservice to the fans."

A legal case on the matter in a democratic country that eventually ends with a win for the Spurs would only help display how totalitarian the NBA is.

[silverblk mystix]

Fyi, Star Bucks serves their coffee at 185°F and Tim Horton's ranges from 175°F- 185°F. What makes this case frivolous isn't the hardship she endured as a result, but the lack of common sense she applied to the situation such as the ill-advised practice of puting a hot cup of Joe between her legs instead of using a cup holder, and doing this despite the warning label on the side of the cup. Have we come to a point in time where people can sue for not using common sense?


Let's look at this from another side;

If mighty McD with their high price legal team could not win this case against a 72 y.o. lady - then McD's deserved to lose it. The plaintiff, apparently was more believable and convincing to a jury (who saw all the facts of the case - unlike the public who only saw the headlines) than the team of legal experts for McD.

I , for one , am not feeling bad for McD's.

[Embedded]

This frivolous suit is just for publicity. What would the actual monetary damages be?

[Drom John]

General numbers.
Just looking at November, best individual seats.
Suns $350
Spurs $425
November 29 attendance, 19703

A bit high since worse seats had a closer spread but, largest ballcourt figure:
19703*($425-$350)=$1,477,725
1/3 lawyer's class action fee = $492,575.

[ambchang]

Not all seats are $425, the difference in the nose bleeds can't be more than $5.

[CGD]

Here's the actual complaint: http://www.scribd.com/doc/120648664/Complaint-v-San-Antonio-Spurs

didnt see it posted

Looks like the claim is statutory; i can't see the Ps overcoming the causation stuff with the blanket statement: "players play down to competition, therefore the game being so close should be ignored" even if they establish the "knowingly deception" element. Unlikely as to the latter given the nba's tacit acceptance of the practice up until that game. Hell, if the Ps want to bring an action against someone, it should be against the nba as opposed to a single team for failing to set a framework for when resting players is/not appropriate. Not to mention the league probably has to indemnify teams when they are individually sued anyway...

Wrt to any common law stuff-- Agreed there is no on the contract claim. Can't imagine the licensing agreements one enters into when buying tickets to a game don't expressly disclaim representations about seeing certain players. The quasi-k claims or fraud (tort) would also seem weak in the presence of an express k. Hard to argue detrimental reliance or that you where duped when you have access to the license agmt.

[Reck]

So what happened to the douchebag fan who sued? :lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

So what happened to the douchebag fan who sued? :lol

He moved to Chicago...

[exstatic]

So what happened to the douchebag fan who sued? :lol
I don't know and I don't care. I hope we never find out because that means this d-bag got what he wanted: free publicity for his ambulance chasing law practice.

[Boomersgold]

"Lawsuit against Spurs is dropped"
http://www.projectspurs.com/2013-articles/march/lawsuit-against-spurs-is-dropped.html

[hooperflash]

Can we sue them for not maintaining the winning streak until they played us, I payed good money to see my favorite team snap that heat streak! :rolleyes

[skulls138]

Ok, now countersue for defamation of character.