Phoenix + Thomas - Q = Championship???? What?

[Spurologist]

Ok the deal is done and finalized. The gist of the trade is Q for Thomas. Suns ship Nate Robinson to knicks for the deal etc etc. Now the aftermath. Media people are talking about how this trade could lead them to the title.

My thoughts.

Come on. I mean seriously. I think too many people are making a big deal out of this guy. Yes he's a solid player with a good outside shot but the guy is not getting any younger at 32. I thought he was decent at best in New York. He wasn't a difference maker. Nash won't hurt his play, but I'm not sold.

Mike D'antoni about Thomas: "Defensively we're better, at rebounding we're better"

"Thomas' presence will allow Amare Stoudemire to slide more often into his natural power forward role and have Thomas defend the opponent's best offensive inside player"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/basketball/nba/06/29/bc.bkn.knicks.sunstrade.ap/index.html (Link)

Laughable. He's 6'7. Maybe in the regular season. Duncan will run practice drills against this guy in the playoffs.

I haven't even talked about the absence of Q on the suns' team even though he choked big time in the playoffs.

I could be completely wrong, but.....
Thoughts???

[ObiwanGinobili]

so this one move improves the defense of the whole team enough to win a ring?
:lmao

I want ot know what D'Antoni has been smokin casue thats some gooood sheeeeiiiiit.:smokin

[Marcus Bryant]

The talking heads are assuming that the Spurs beat the Suns solely because of Duncan.

[batman2883]

This dude is a moron, Kurt Thomas will not bring a championship to the Suns, i doubt very highly they even make it back to the Western Conference finals this year. Q was the best three point threat they had, and the boy has some skills, why get rid of him. All they really had to do was hit the gym really hard this summer and practice on Defensive drills, learn not to abandon the offensive/defensive boards. The Suns will never win a championship with run and gun sorry.

[TheTruth]

The biggest thing is that it moves Marion off of Duncan, which is huge for the Suns. Not that KT has ever had any success in stopping Timmy, but he should be an improvement over Marion. BUT they hurt their perimeter game which really plays into the Spurs hands.

[Extra Stout]

The Suns struggled because they had no lineup that could match up effectively against the Spurs' Big 3. Q was a huge liability, and since he went Clipper on them on offense anyway in the WCF, he was expendable.

Now what you'll see is Marion on Ginobili, and Johnson on Parker, while Thomas, Stoudemire, and Hunter take turns on Duncan.

The Suns are making roster moves solely with the Spurs in mind. Whether they will be effective is another question.

[CosmicCowboy]

Q has always been a streaky player but when he is hot he is SMOKIN hot...he just went cold on them in the wrong series...PHX could thank Q for some of those regular season wins...if the PHX philosophy is still gonna be to outscore the opposition then Q > KT

[boutons]

"Marion on Ginobili, and Johnson on Parker, while Thomas, Stoudemire, and Hunter take turns on Duncan."

But they haven't played team defense under Mike, and the absence was so dramatic that it was probably Mike's life-long approach to coaching. I don't care what the personel changes are, if the the Suns continue as last year, they ain't gonna make past the Spurs.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Thomas will get exploited out West. He was effective in the East where only 3 teams actually have a true center. He'll get SPowned out West.

[Extra Stout]

Thomas wasn't exactly effective guarding Duncan in the Finals back in 1999.

[ShoogarBear]

Wake up, Q sucked.

[constantstate]

they made a good move. kurt thomas will help down low with the dirty stuff... and anyway, Q was being wasted there and was one dimensional in their offense. but he's still a forward and will probably not be as effective playing along side someone getting the ball as much as amare. they still have no bench. and if they made this move strictly for a rematch somewhere down the line, its not nearly enough.

[clubalien]

why did the sons go after Q from clips if they were going to trade him for thomas?

[pjjrfan]

He will make them better and Thomas helps them with one of the several areas where they fell short against the Spurs. The other area was their bench and they still have to do something there, but this move is a start, and I wouldn't be to quick to dismiss these guys. I don't think thier confidence was shaken in any way by thier defeat, but they surely learned a valuable lesson, they weren't ready to contend for a tiltle. Colangelo is a smart guy who will do his best to get D'Antoni all the help he needs.

[101A]

Thomas '05 = LaFrentz '03.

The similarities (and talk) are eerie.

[boutons]

"get D'Antoni all the help he needs."

They had and have plenty of talent.

Mike is the problem, not playing defense.

[clubalien]

hmm i think rasho > thomas
why would we want to trade rasho

[constantstate]

how old is nash... and thomas is 32... play them 40+ mins again this next season, and lets see what happens come playoff time. im not saying thats what killed them, but the window to learn valuable playoff lessons is really short for them. plus, thomas hated playing center in ny... hey... guess what... and now, you dont even get the ball that much.

[Spurologist]

why did the sons go after Q from clips if they were going to trade him for thomas?

Suns were trying to recovering from a horrible season. They just wanted to get better, so they got Q.

The big picture is that D'antonie wants to run like magic's lakers and jordan's bulls. Problem is jordan and pipen were leading the league in steals and were on all defense teams. And the lakers had that kareem guy.

Who do the suns have?
statues on defense who would rather let an oppenent score so they run the other way. Not quite gonna cut it.

[strangeweather]

Thomas isn't a bad guy to have. I'm not sure if he can keep up with the Suns running game, though. Obviously, the Suns must think he can, but if they're wrong, he's useless to them.

The killer move for Phoenix this offseason will be if they can sign Finley. I don't think he can put them over the top by himself, but he'd a major upgrade on both offense and defense over Q. The only downside would be that they would need to watch his minutes.

[nkdlunch]

The first and biggest adjustment Suns need to do is with the coach. He is taking the Suns in the wrong direction and is wasting away precious talent.

[Extra Stout]

Thomas isn't a bad guy to have. I'm not sure if he can keep up with the Suns running game, though. Obviously, the Suns must think he can, but if they're wrong, he's useless to them.

The killer move for Phoenix this offseason will be if they can sign Finley. I don't think he can put them over the top by himself, but he'd a major upgrade on both offense and defense over Q. The only downside would be that they would need to watch his minutes.Finley? Defense? Eh? Offense? Finley's a stop-and-pop guy. Give him the ball in the middle of the court in transition and watch him dribble it off his foot.

[Spursdaone]

First off this trade gives the suns more than a good chance to defeat the spurs due to getting bigger and sustaining their shooting. Kurt Thomas will get the ball alot for the mid range because they would rather him shoot than Amare dunking or killing them with a 3. Q. Richardson was the weakest link in the suns offense and he shot only 33% from 3 pointers while Joe Johnson shot like 45%. I predict suns beat the spurs if healthy. Kurt Thomas doesn't have to worry about any Centers except Shaq and Yao who they could take him out and go small to wear them out.

[benjirh]

Thomas will get exploited out West. He was effective in the East where only 3 teams actually have a true center. He'll get SPowned out West.

This was a week accusation 3 years ago and is weeker today. Yes the west has better big men overall, but to say that he will suck because he is now playing in a different conference is an uneducated claim. His averages in pts, rbs, and blks were almost identical between his games vs. east teams and his games vs. west teams. Will he make the suns champs, no, will he make them stronger up front, yes.

[tophy7]

First off this trade gives the suns more than a good chance to defeat the spurs due to getting bigger and sustaining their shooting. Kurt Thomas will get the ball alot for the mid range because they would rather him shoot than Amare dunking or killing them with a 3. Q. Richardson was the weakest link in the suns offense and he shot only 33% from 3 pointers while Joe Johnson shot like 45%. I predict suns beat the spurs if healthy. Kurt Thomas doesn't have to worry about any Centers except Shaq and Yao who they could take him out and go small to wear them out.

Another brilliant post by the "spurs" fan, got anymore great trade ideas? How about manu for shandon anderson.

[Spursdaone]

I still feel the Suns will shoot lights out except now they can rebound and now they can matchup with Duncan. Kurt Thomas is way better on defense than Amare Stoudemire and now Amare doesn't have to guard any superstar.

[benjirh]

Another brilliant post by the "spurs" fan, got anymore great trade ideas? How about manu for shandon anderson.

what are you talking about?

[tophy7]

Just exposing that fraud who calls himself a spurs fan that's all. As for Amare not having to guard Duncan, he never did in the first place, Marion did.

[Spursdaone]

Just exposing that fraud who calls himself a spurs fan that's all. As for Amare not having to guard Duncan, he never did in the first place, Marion did.
Marion is too small to guard Duncan and Amare is just a bad defender from some reason.

[BillsCarnage]

First off this trade gives the suns more than a good chance to defeat the spurs due to getting bigger and sustaining their shooting. Kurt Thomas will get the ball alot for the mid range because they would rather him shoot than Amare dunking or killing them with a 3. Q. Richardson was the weakest link in the suns offense and he shot only 33% from 3 pointers while Joe Johnson shot like 45%. I predict suns beat the spurs if healthy. Kurt Thomas doesn't have to worry about any Centers except Shaq and Yao who they could take him out and go small to wear them out.

Excellent analysis. And to add to it, the Suns will now be doubling players like Timmeh and Yao with Amare and KT. That's a much better double team than Amare and Marion, and Amare still has the quickness to jump out when the ball is dished. This team isn't going to have to worry about scoring; Marion, JoJo, Nash, and the soon to be newest addition...... RAJA BELL.... can all shot the 3.

Phoenix Suns- Utah Jazz: The team struck the first deal of the free-agency period on Friday, coming to an agreement in principle with free agent Raja Bell.

"Raja Bell intends to sign a contract with the Suns when the moratorium ends," his agent, Herb Rudoy, told ESPN Insider Chad Ford. "Raja really wanted to play with Steve Nash and saw a great opportunity to do just that."

The Suns will sign Bell with part of their mid-level exception. Last year the exception was for $4.9 million and is expected to go up slightly this year.

Suns GM Bryan Colangelo declined comment on the story, citing league policy that prohibits NBA teams from commenting on free-agent negotiations during the moratorium.

Bell and the Suns can make things official on July 22, when the moratorium is lifted.

I don't like the amount of $$ they're spending on him though. Oh, and for those of you who swear D'Antoni won't coach defense? That's their primary goal this offseason is to build a better defense. They don't need to play it for 48min, but they will be able to tighten up the D and get stops when they need next season.

[tophy7]

If you're a spurs fan you would know that in the playoffs marion guarded duncan.

[nkdlunch]

First off this trade gives the suns more than a good chance to defeat the spurs due to getting bigger and sustaining their shooting. Kurt Thomas will get the ball alot for the mid range because they would rather him shoot than Amare dunking or killing them with a 3. Q. Richardson was the weakest link in the suns offense and he shot only 33% from 3 pointers while Joe Johnson shot like 45%. I predict suns beat the spurs if healthy. Kurt Thomas doesn't have to worry about any Centers except Shaq and Yao who they could take him out and go small to wear them out.

this guy's posts are classic :lol

You're saying Suns would rather have Thomas shooting than Amare dunking??

[Spursdaone]

this guy's posts are classic :lol

You're saying Suns would rather have Thomas shooting than Amare dunking??
You couldn't figure out I was talking about the spurs. :lol

[BillsCarnage]

this guy's posts are classic :lol

You're saying Suns would rather have Thomas shooting than Amare dunking??

I think he's referring to the opponents, not the Suns. The odds of KT missing a mid range are much higher than Amare missing a dunk.

:fro

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Oh, and for those of you who swear D'Antoni won't coach defense? That's their primary goal this offseason is to build a better defense. They don't need to play it for 48min, but they will be able to tighten up the D and get stops when they need next season.

There's a difference between coaching defense and signing defenders. The Suns could get Bruce Bowen and still botch that one because _'Antoni would tell him to not guard guys so much so that he doesn't foul and slow the game down and to make sure that he's leading the break.

[nkdlunch]

You couldn't figure out I was talking about the spurs. :lol

sorry I stopped reading 6th grade essays a long time ago. :lol

[Spursdaone]

The biggest weakness of defense for Phoenix was their defensive rebounding and not matching up with big men. Now Kurt will take away both weaknesses.

[BillsCarnage]

There's a difference between coaching defense and signing defenders. The Suns could get Bruce Bowen and still botch that one because _'Antoni would tell him to not guard guys so much so that he doesn't foul and slow the game down and to make sure that he's leading the break.

The Suns have talked a lot about getting a better defensive scheme in place. D'Antoni can and will coach defense next year. It won't be Spurs quality for 48min, but like i said, they will be much better at getting stops when they need.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

The Suns have talked a lot about getting a better defensive scheme in place. D'Antoni can and will coach defense next year. It won't be Spurs quality for 48min, but like i said, they will be much better at getting stops when they need.

Well, when I see it I'll believe it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[bigzak25]

i'll be pretty dissappointed if the suns sign raja.

and i'm glad they didn't get malik to be honest....

[Supergirl]

Thomas for Q was a no-brainer for the Suns, because they gave up a guy who was useless and gave them nothing for a semi-decent center in the East. I think Thomas will look a lot worse now that he'll be playing in the West, but he's still an upgrade from Steven Hunter, and will free up Amare more. I'm not sure this will be good enough to get them over hte "mountain that is the Spurs" (a quote I read a couple days ago from D'Antoni) but it is an upgrade.

Raja Bell would make them much deeper and give them a 2nd player who can be a defensive stopper. Bell and Johnson together would be tough cover for Parker and Manu.

I'm still not sure the Suns will be able to learn defense well enough - that kind of thing isn't learned top-down. You can't just decide to learn defense in the off-season. Nash is never going to play defense. I think there is a good chance that the Suns will peak, and drop, and never make it to the Finals, much like the Mavs and the Kings before them.

(the Mavs, of course, are rebuilding, and with AJ at the helm they may have a chance again - my money would be on them rather than the Suns at this point, but hey. We'll have to see)

Once you have the trophy, everyone's gunning for you...

[Spursdaone]

The mavs are soft and don't attack the rim like the suns and adding K. Thomas and Bell would be at worst 2nd best. They have so many different lineups they can do now and Barbosa will continue to get better. The spurs got to find a way now to counter Phoenix.

[Spurologist]

The biggest weakness of defense for Phoenix was their defensive rebounding and not matching up with big men. Now Kurt will take away both weaknesses.

Trust me there are a lot more weaknesses than you think. Yes Kurt Thomas' stats might show that he's a good rebounder but let us check his height, shall we? He's 6'7. Point is he offers no shot blocking. Suns need size. Hunter gave them virtually nothing. With the suns' defenders getting out of the way of drivers like tp and manu, do u expect little Kurt to get in their way. Detroit had a hard time doing this on occasion.

His type of game is suited for the reg season. Here's a stat for everyone. Kurt has averaged 6.5 points and 5.8 rebounds in his playoff career (48 games).

[Extra Stout]

Excellent analysis. And to add to it, the Suns will now be doubling players like Timmeh and Yao with Amare and KT. That's a much better double team than Amare and Marion, and Amare still has the quickness to jump out when the ball is dished. This team isn't going to have to worry about scoring; Marion, JoJo, Nash, and the soon to be newest addition...... RAJA BELL.... can all shot the 3.Doubling Tim Duncan with two big men is the wrong strategy. The Suns had it right doubling with Joe Johnson. If you double Tim with two bigs, Nazr/Horry gets a putback.

The Suns have given up a little scoring. No big deal. They're tuning their scheme to beat the Spurs, such as it is. But do not expect Kurt Thomas to be the Duncan Stoppah.

Raja Bell may or may not pan out. He's a very good perimeter defender, but his offensive game is pretty limited, even though he's an OK 3-point shooter, and scored 12 ppg on a bad team, sort of a poor man's Bruce Bowen. Well, OK, he has more offense than Bruce.

Can these new additions run the floor the way the Suns did in 2004-05, or are the Suns going to look more to pick their spots to run like a conventional team?


Oh, and for those of you who swear D'Antoni won't coach defense? That's their primary goal this offseason is to build a better defense. They don't need to play it for 48min, but they will be able to tighten up the D and get stops when they need next season.Well, you hope as much. They weren't a bad defensive team this season, but they had horrible matchup problems against the Spurs. We'll see how things pan out with the more conventional lineup in 2005-06.

[benjirh]

Trust me there are a lot more weaknesses than you think. Yes Kurt Thomas' stats might show that he's a good rebounder but let us check his height, shall we? He's 6'7. Point is he offers no shot blocking. Suns need size. Hunter gave them virtually nothing. With the suns' defenders getting out of the way of drivers like tp and manu, do u expect little Kurt to get in their way. Detroit had a hard time doing this on occasion.

His type of game is suited for the reg season. Here's a stat for everyone. Kurt has averaged 6.5 points and 5.8 rebounds in his playoff career (48 games).

First of all, what site has him listed at 6'7", or did you measure him yourself.

Second. Way to include his entire playoff career. What about his last two playoffs, when he was getting major minutes and starting. 13.7ppg and 11.3rpg. Don't just randomly throw out stats please.

[Horry For 3!]

There is no way that in just getting Kurt Thomas that they will win a Championship or even get to the Western Conference Finals. Q kept them in many games with his 3 in the regular season. They don't have that outside shot anymore.

[Spursdaone]

There is no way that in just getting Kurt Thomas that they will win a Championship or even get to the Western Conference Finals. Q kept them in many games with his 3 in the regular season. They don't have that outside shot anymore.
Joe Johnson, Jim Jackson, Shawn Marion, and Raja Bell. What people don't seem to realize is how effective Phoenix is in the half court. They are even better running but Kurt Thomas will be hitting midrange shots instead of Q. Richardson bricking 3 pointers. Kurt Thomas averages over 8 defensive rebounds per game at 6'9. That was by far Phoenix's weakest area and should improve their running game due to improvement in rebounding.

[Extra Stout]

Joe Johnson, Jim Jackson, Shawn Marion, and Raja Bell. What people don't seem to realize is how effective Phoenix is in the half court. They are even better running but Kurt Thomas will be hitting midrange shots instead of Q. Richardson bricking 3 pointers. Kurt Thomas averages over 8 defensive rebounds per game at 6'9. That was by far Phoenix's weakest area and should improve their running game due to improvement in rebounding.

It creates some new holes, however. Thomas is not a runner, having him in the game neutralizes some of the offensive matchup advantages the Suns had with their Marion/Stoudemire frontline, and he's not much of a help defender and is like Shaq on the pick-and-roll. You know what happens when a big man leaves Tony Parker alone on the pick-and-roll.

[Extra Stout]

There is no way that in just getting Kurt Thomas that they will win a Championship or even get to the Western Conference Finals. Q kept them in many games with his 3 in the regular season. They don't have that outside shot anymore.Q was overrated. 39% from the field doesn't get it done in this day and age. And, it's not likehe was giving that team anything else.

[Spurologist]

When tim dunks on him, the first thing that will pop in his head is "I wish I was two inches taller, I would have blocked that shot.

[benjirh]

you still didn't answer my question, where did you see that he is 6'7"?

[Spursdaone]

He is 2 inches off because Kurt Thomas is 6'9.

[Spurologist]

alright he's 6'9. I misread. Phoenix got Dijon thomson as part of the deal with NY. He's 6'7". I don't see how 2 inches makes much difference, but there you go. Happy now.

[benjirh]

yeah

[constantstate]

Joe Johnson, Jim Jackson, Shawn Marion, and Raja Bell. What people don't seem to realize is how effective Phoenix is in the half court. They are even better running but Kurt Thomas will be hitting midrange shots instead of Q. Richardson bricking 3 pointers. Kurt Thomas averages over 8 defensive rebounds per game at 6'9. That was by far Phoenix's weakest area and should improve their running game due to improvement in rebounding.

they are not effective in a half court game because they're undersized... and kurt thomas is not a center, he's a natural power forward. the only thing they had/have going for them is the run and gun. when they tried going halfcourt things would break down... when they took nash out... everyone looked lost.

[Marcus Bryant]

These moves make the Suns better suited for playoff basketball. Unfortunately, the Champs are getting better themselves this summer.

[Spursdaone]

they are not effective in a half court game because they're undersized... and kurt thomas is not a center, he's a natural power forward. the only thing they had/have going for them is the run and gun. when they tried going halfcourt things would break down... when they took nash out... everyone looked lost.
The suns have no trouble scoring in the halfcourt because of the chemistry between Nash and Stoudemire. Pic n roll is half court by the way and the spurs and every other team did not have an answer for that. So much for the idea of the suns not good in the half court because they're too small.

[Spursdaone]

I wonder why Phoenix tried to run so badly against San Antonio since San Antonio was running better on them than Phoenix was on San Antonio. I thought Phoenix had the better half court offense and they aren't going to wear San Antonio down.

[spur4life]

"Marion on Ginobili, and Johnson on Parker, while Thomas, Stoudemire, and Hunter take turns on Duncan."

But they haven't played team defense under Mike, and the absence was so dramatic that it was probably Mike's life-long approach to coaching. I don't care what the personel changes are, if the the Suns continue as last year, they ain't gonna make past the Spurs.


that means bruce bowen will be free to take steve nash out of the game...then what is the point of all those match up for the suns if nash can't feed them? :lol

[BillsCarnage]

There is no way that in just getting Kurt Thomas that they will win a Championship or even get to the Western Conference Finals. Q kept them in many games with his 3 in the regular season. They don't have that outside shot anymore.

Q kept them in some games, but only actually won a hand full. They have plenty of 3pt shooters left. Don't forget Q shot 600-some 3's. JoJo was second in the NBA in 3pt percentage. JJax, Marion, barbosa, etc.

KT aslo adds another pic-n-pop option with his midrange.

[Spursdaone]

that means bruce bowen will be free to take steve nash out of the game...then what is the point of all those match up for the suns if nash can't feed them? :lol
That is one player of a few that Bowen can't guard. Wade and Iverson are the other 2 that are too quick for Bowen.

[atlfan25]

Phoenix + Thomas - Q = Championship???? What? No.

[Spursdaone]

That is one player of a few that Bowen can't guard. Wade and Iverson are the other 2 that are too quick for Bowen.
And Bowen will be a year older which doesn't help his chances of guarding these players.

[CalsonicKansei]

The talking heads are assuming that the Spurs beat the Suns solely because of Duncan.
They are absolutely correct.

[Spursdaone]

Did anyone forget how much better Stoudemire will be next year and he will he keep getting better because he is very young. He is not at Duncan's level yet but is not that far off. This team has the most upside in the nba.

[BillsCarnage]

Did anyone forget how much better Stoudemire will be next year and he will he keep getting better because he is very young. He is not at Duncan's level yet but is not that far off. This team has the most upside in the nba.

That's right. And many people are acting like the Suns are changing their style. Let's not forget that this was a 29 win team prior to Nash & Q. It's the first year they were all together. This past season was just the beginning.

The Cavs, with a good off season, will have a tremendous upside too.

[exstatic]

Thomas will get the ball alot for the mid range because they would rather him shoot than Amare dunking or killing them with a 3.
Your mileage may vary. Me? I'd rather have Amare dunking. Higher percentage. Kurt Thomas also can't defend Tim. Never could, never will.

I like the Bell signing, but I can just see Nash running the break in November, and looking around like WTF? where is everybody? Shouldn't there be 5 of us?

Going and getting some good role players isn't going to make up the three games that Phoenix was short last year in the SA series. I think a healthy Tim also offsets these transactions.

[BillsCarnage]

Going and getting some good role players isn't going to make up the three games that Phoenix was short last year in the SA series. I think a healthy Tim also offsets these transactions.

It sucks that we have 11 months to wait and see.
:fro

[constantstate]

oh man... all of a sudden a pick and a dunk is halfcourt offense. all of a sudden a power forward/center who isnt exactly known for his defense, means defensive stops when it counts... all of a sudden nash is going to get younger and play all 48mins so that everyone doesnt bobble the ball out there.

that being said... like i said before good pickup, q wasnt being used right anyway.

[Spursdaone]

oh man... all of a sudden a pick and a dunk is halfcourt offense. all of a sudden a power forward/center who isnt exactly known for his defense, means defensive stops when it counts... all of a sudden nash is going to get younger and play all 48mins so that everyone doesnt bobble the ball out there.

that being said... like i said before good pickup, q wasnt being used right anyway.
It worked most of the time Phoenix used it on the pick and roll. Phoenix wasn't as bad defensively as they were defensive rebounding. Nash might not get younger but with the continuing improvement of Stoudemire will cancel out that .

[tophy7]

Can you tell me why you like the spurs, because I haven't seen 1 positive comment about the spurs from you yet.

[Spursdaone]

The spurs won the championship but can't be satisfied with the same group. They still need improvement to beat the suns who will be much tougher. I hope Pop realizes this and still looks for improvement.

[TheTruth]

Q kept them in some games, but only actually won a hand full. They have plenty of 3pt shooters left. Don't forget Q shot 600-some 3's. JoJo was second in the NBA in 3pt percentage. JJax, Marion, barbosa, etc.

KT aslo adds another pic-n-pop option with his midrange.
Barbosa???? I wouldn't count on him to put my groceries away properly.

[TheTruth]

The spurs won the championship but can't be satisfied with the same group. They still need improvement to beat the suns who will be much tougher. I hope Pop realizes this and still looks for improvement.
The Suns have gotten a little better, but do you honestly believe that what they have done thus far is enough to match up with the spurs? I hope the Suns think that Kurt Thomas is the answer on Duncan, Duncan has owned him since day one.

[constantstate]

It worked most of the time Phoenix used it on the pick and roll. Phoenix wasn't as bad defensively as they were defensive rebounding. Nash might not get younger but with the continuing improvement of Stoudemire will cancel out that .
and nash had nothing to do with that "continuing improvement of stoudemire" this last season? without nash, that team dont go. i like/love the way he plays... and he makes everyone better... but you cant play him 48mins a game and not expect injury or fatigue.

you know, last year wasnt the first time nash had been in the western conference finals with a team known for its offensive firepower and lack of defense and defensive rebounding. i dont think thomas is the magical cure, but i think getting him is better than sticking with q.

maybe they can use him right, because dallas has always tried "plugging in" bigmen to get rebounding/defense... most recently dampier.

[Spursdaone]

The difference between Dallas and Phoenix is Phoenix has an inside game in Amare. Their defense and rebounding was bad last year but if they improve their defense a little and their rebounding alot that might be enough to upset the spurs. Have any ideas on how the spurs can counter the suns moves?

[constantstate]

The difference between Dallas and Phoenix is Phoenix has an inside game in Amare. Their defense and rebounding was bad last year but if they improve their defense a little and their rebounding alot that might be enough to upset the spurs. Have any ideas on how the spurs can counter the suns moves?

the spurs dont need to counter moves made by the suns in order to just keep up with the spurs. the spurs dont really need to add anything right now, but they are... its pretty sweet.

[TheTruth]

What moves do the Spurs have to counter? The only move the Suns have made is trading away a perimeter threat for a PF that can't do the one thing he is being brought in to do.

[Spursdaone]

What was that? Hitting mid range shots and rebounding? 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[BillsCarnage]

Can you tell me why you like the spurs, because I haven't seen 1 positive comment about the spurs from you yet.

Just because someone is objective (negative from you point of view?) doesn't mean they have to be positive.

[constantstate]

if he gets 10 or 11 shots a game, and can co-exsist with amare, hes going to be a good addition. but he's a power forward that hated playing center and was basically made the focus of the offense late in the season by his former team. he wont get a ton of touches in phoenix, and he's not a defensive stopper.

[Spursdaone]

Nash gets everyone involved.

[Spursdaone]

He will keep Amare out of foul trouble which is key. I agree he is not a defensive stopper.

[BillsCarnage]

lets not forget that Amare may still stay at center on either end of the court. KT might be the PF.

[TheTruth]

What was that? Hitting mid range shots and rebounding? 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
If having KT at the 4 means moving Marion to the Perimeter that is going to hurt the Team rebounding. I don't see how KT is going to get open for a lot of those open mid range shots, the Spurs weren't exactly doubling off any Suns this past season. They let Amare get his, and they'll do the same next year.

[constantstate]

Nash gets everyone involved.
marion looked pretty involved in the WCF.

[tophy7]

Just because someone is objective (negative from you point of view?) doesn't mean they have to be positive.

Calling Duncan soft and a choker, wanting horry to go to miami and wanting bowen to be traded for mike james is not being objective. Everything he says about spurs he's being negative. Really I wouldn't care if he was a fan of a different team saying all this because it would make more sense. No spurs fan, homer or not, would say all those things plus say that spurs beat detroit "because you had horry".

[Spursdaone]

The suns offense will be the same but they will not give up 110 points because of their big improvement in defensive rebounding because Kurt Thomas averages over 10 rebounds.

[atlfan25]

The suns offense will be the same but they will not give up 110 points because of their big improvement in defensive rebounding because Kurt Thomas averages over 10 rebounds.
how can it be the same w/o the same offensive componants

[constantstate]

If having KT at the 4 means moving Marion to the Perimeter that is going to hurt the Team rebounding. I don't see how KT is going to get open for a lot of those open mid range shots, the Spurs weren't exactly doubling off any Suns this past season. They let Amare get his, and they'll do the same next year.
yup. i thought marion was a killer (especially on the offensive boards) this is going to pull him away a little from that too. he'll have to get back on defense and not crash the boards as much.

[Spursdaone]

marion looked pretty involved in the WCF.
Yeah Bruce Bowen owned him. How about Joe Johnson when healthy? Bruce Bowen will have to guard him now since he is a big threat.

[Spursdaone]

how can it be the same w/o the same offensive componants
So you think Q. Richardson was a big part of that offense? I was thinking how good Phoenix would be if they replace Richardson with a reliable shooter. That would be scary.

[TheTruth]

The offense WON'T be the same. The scariest part of their fast break was jj and q stopping behind the 3 point line and popping the wide open trey's nash amare and marion created. Instead of teams having to account for 2 players behind the 3 point line, they have to worry about one. That is going to make a difference. MAYBE, KT will help on the boards and MAYBE he hits a few midrange jumpers a game, but he will not average anywhere near the 14 pts a game Q averaged.

[constantstate]

Yeah Bruce Bowen owned him. How about Joe Johnson when healthy? Bruce Bowen will have to guard him now since he is a big threat.
i like joe johnson... but they switch bruce bowen around alot. if he got hot, they'd probably put him on him. joe johnson isnt why the suns lost that series.

[SequSpur]

Why is this even a topic?

Wgaf about the Suns?

The world saw the gameplan to destroy them.

The rest of the NBA will catch on and they will be in the middle to the bottom of the pack.

Lock this motha.

[Spursdaone]

You are underestimating the half court offense of Phoenix which couldn't be much better with Kurt Thomas. He shoots 47% to Q.'s 39%. Nash will still have room to do the pick and roll with Stoudemire without Hunter clogging up the middle.

[constantstate]

Why is this even a topic?

Wgaf about the Suns?

The world saw the gameplan to destroy them.

The rest of the NBA will catch on and they will be in the middle to the bottom of the pack.

Lock this motha.

:lol

theres nothing else going on. and this dude is rattling off gems like. nash involves everyone! (its kinda cool)

[constantstate]

i liked the other thread better... about duncan needing a 3pt shot to be better than kg! but this one is pretty cool.

[Spursdaone]

You are underestimating the half court offense of Phoenix which couldn't be much better with Kurt Thomas. He shoots 47% to Q.'s 39%. Nash will still have room to do the pick and roll with Stoudemire without Hunter clogging up the middle.
I can't wait til the season starts to prove my point.

[constantstate]

I can't wait til the season starts to prove my point.
if duncan starts lofting up halfcourt shots... you owe me money. :)

btw amare was 3-16 behind the 3pt line.

[atlfan25]

So you think Q. Richardson was a big part of that offense? I was thinking how good Phoenix would be if they replace Richardson with a reliable shooter. That would be scary.
answer the question son.

[Spursdaone]

i liked the other thread better... about duncan needing a 3pt shot to be better than kg! but this one is pretty cool.
that is pretty minor and more of an afterthought of another reason Garnett is better. I didn't even think about it until someone started a thread about it.

[constantstate]

that is pretty minor and more of an afterthought of another reason Garnett is better. I didn't even think about it until someone started a thread about it.
amare better start jacking up 3's... otherwise dirk is better. they do have the same defensive style...

[Spursdaone]

answer the question son.
ok. Kurt Thomas takes long range shots like Q does except a couple feet closer. He won't be the threat on fast breaks but he will be when he gets there. As long as Nash, Stoudemire, and Marion are on the court this team will be a great offensive team and maybe one of the best of all time. I don't know how else to answer it.

[constantstate]

oh and dirk is taller than amare... that makes him a better rebounder. he's also german... that makes him more efficient.

[Spursdaone]

You are hilarious. I am not a Dirk fan so you can be happy. He is soft and a bad teammate. He disappears in big games. Stoudemire is a much more reliable offensive threat.

[constantstate]

You are hilarious. I am not a Dirk fan so you can be happy. He is soft and a bad teammate. He disappears in big games. Stoudemire is a much more reliable offensive threat.
using your logic...he's better than amare. so i guess we'll have to wait til the season starts to see who's right!!!

:rolleyes

[Spursdaone]

What logic of mine was so crazy? Name it and I'll explain it.

[duncan_21]

I think this makes pho a better team. It's gotta help movin amare to the 4, marion to the 3. Really Q ain't that good. He shot less then 40% from the field last year. For a run and gun team like pho, that's pretty bad, especially with nash runnin the point.

I'm still not sold on nash being healthy all of next season. This season was a fluke injury wise for him. The suns will be a better team but will probly struggle to beat the spurs.

[Spursdaone]

I think this makes pho a better team. It's gotta help movin amare to the 4, marion to the 3. Really Q ain't that good. He shot less then 40% from the field last year. For a run and gun team like pho, that's pretty bad, especially with nash runnin the point.

I'm still not sold on nash being healthy all of next season. This season was a fluke injury wise for him. The suns will be a better team but will probly struggle to beat the spurs.
rack him. I don't know about the suns vs. spurs but I know the suns will be better and it will be pretty evenly matched.

[constantstate]

What logic of mine was so crazy? Name it and I'll explain it.
thats ok swami... when duncan adds a 3pt shot he'll be better than kg... and when amare grows 3 inches AND jacks up 3s... he'll be better than dirk. (i got it) but i still like the thomas move... i still dont think it answers anything for them though. i just like it because it'll slow down the suns a little more... and i liked q and thought he was becoming too one dimensional in phoenix. maybe he'll grow more where he's asked to do more?

[Spursdaone]

Ok Duncan is better without the 3 point shot. Does that make sense? I would rather have Duncan be capable of hitting that shot. Even than I would still give Garnett the edge because of rebounding and passing.

[constantstate]

Ok Duncan is better without the 3 point shot. Does that make sense? I would rather have Duncan be capable of hitting that shot. Even than I would still give Garnett the edge because of rebounding and passing.
duncan is a post player. a classic post player. garnett is 3 trapped in a 4's body... and even with his great and wonderful "passing" skills... he still doesnt make his team better. (how does that make sense?)

when magic called him out that season to stop thumping his chest and just play and make his team better... could you ever imagine that being said of duncan? (anywhere at anytime?)

[Spursdaone]

Offensively he does but the problem with Minnesota is defense. No one on that roster except maybe Hassell can play defense. Sprewell used to be able to play defense but got old. Garnett can only do so much on defense.

[Spursdaone]

I'll give the edge to Duncan on defense.

[constantstate]

no team he's ever been on... any of the one's they've given him in tpup-land has he ever made better. none.

give him a second all-star and he fights with him... stops his progress... where's wally?

[Spursdaone]

As you've seen with Dallas. Teams can't win with offense alone and Minnesota is the same way. They average about the same amount of points as San Antonio and last year they had more but Garnett has an old team and is suffering because of it. Wally is not athletic enough to be good defensively.

[constantstate]

As you've seen with Dallas. Teams can't win with offense alone and Minnesota is the same way. They average about the same amount of points as San Antonio and last year they had more but Garnett has an old team and is suffering because of it. Wally is not athletic enough to be good defensively.
you didnt answer my question about him not making anyone else better on any of the teams they've had since he's been there.

steve nash said in the WCF, if there was one reason they were getting beat "it was no. 21. he makes everyone better." and that was funny only because they say that about him too. has anyone ever said that about garnett?

[constantstate]

im just saying... i think steve nash would probably see whats going on, on the court, better than anyone else. and if he said something like that... i'd believe it. (and not think it was just smoke being blown up someone's etc)

i think kg is a great player... but to say duncan needs a 3pt shot to be better than him... thats crazy. (of course thats probably your point in this whole thing)

[Spursdaone]

Of course he makes them better. He is their player and with Cassell hurt and Hudson as a starter who wasn't right either because of his ankle. He makes them better and so does Duncan. It is hard to explain how he makes them better but the offense is set up around him which is pretty good.

[constantstate]

wow

[Spursdaone]

im just saying... i think steve nash would probably see whats going on, on the court, better than anyone else. and if he said something like that... i'd believe it. (and not think it was just smoke being blown up someone's etc)

i think kg is a great player... but to say duncan needs a 3pt shot to be better than him... thats crazy. (of course thats probably your point in this whole thing)
What? I brought it up pretty late and you must have missed the first few days of this debate on who's better. I don't think the 3 point shot matters that much if at all.

[constantstate]

i meant saying crazy stuff. like kg ROCKS! and duncan needs a 3pt shot to be better than a guy without a championship! and phoenix just won the championship cause they got rid of Q and added another undersized center! (things like that)

but ok.

[Spursdaone]

I never said KG rocks and he can be a jerk at times when they are losing. I also see that even though Kurt Thomas is undersized he brings alot to the table for Phoenix like the mid range shot, rebounding, and the outlet pass. I have no idea what will happen but it sounds good for Phoenix.

[Spursdaone]

bump

[mavsfan1000]

I have a feeling Nash's age will catch up to him this year. He could not play any better than last year and that is why San Antonio I feel are still the favorites.