Is it just me or has Kawhi's defense fallen off a little bit?

[SupremeGuy]

I'm guessing I just got used to him making a couple steals every game, so it seems like he doesn't have the same defensive presence that he had pre-injury. Maybe rust? Or am I being too hard a critic? As my girlfriend could attest to you, he's my favorite Spur(non-Big 3) so don't think I'm just hating on him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

his not the only one of the team that allows their assign player blow past them in transition, where the help defense is fkn slow on the switch....

blame the other 2 perimeter players on the court thats been living on a reputation that they play some sort of defense.....lol parker, green

[SupremeGuy]

That's true for some situations, but even when he's taking someone one on one, he doesn't look as dominant(don't crucify my hyperbole) as before.

[SupremeGuy]

I know this is his second year, but dammit I was drunk and talking mad shit to some friend's of mine about how he was our elite perimeter defender and blah blah... and it just hasn't seemed that way in the past few games.

Damn my jinx. :(

edit- Splits has seemed like a better defender to me lately. :drunk

[Brunodf]

Offense too

[SupremeGuy]

I really didn't want to bring up his o cause Pop really doesn't let him do anything other than shoot corner 3s. lol

[Floyd Pacquiao]

His defense is fine tbh just a few games ago we were praising him for his D on kobe...he also played pretty damn good D on Rudy Gay last game...He just had a bad game today tbh it happens

[timvp]

He got plenty of steals post-injury too, so I don't think it's injury related.

Spurs fans have overhyped his defense a bit but he's progressing well. Still makes mistakes but he has good focus, the requisite skills and the dedications ... so he'll eventually get there. But it takes a lot of seasoning to become an elite perimeter defender in the NBA.

[freetiago]

Popovich is turning him into a turd tbh
favorite moment this game was when Kawhi picked up a foul on a pumpfake and pop immediately subbed him in for that TOSB Jackson

great teaching lesson for Kawhi
watching Jackson go hero from the bench while he stands in the corner on offense

[SupremeGuy]

Holy hell, I hate when Pop pulls that crap. He makes a simple mistake and pulls him... lame. I mean, who am I? Pop is the man, but damn that annoys me.

edit- Please excuse my drunken grammar. :toast

[Brunodf]

I really didn't want to bring up his o cause Pop really doesn't let him do anything other than shoot corner 3s. lol

Remember Kawhi in his rookie season he used to drive to the rim, take jumpers and we were saying "ohh even Kawhi drives and RJ doesn't, isn't Pop who is making RJ just a corner shooter..."

[TDMVPDPOY]

KL is too good to be given a limited role, while some heroes on the team love to chuck up shots where there stats are misleading due to the volume shots they are allowed to take....

[freetiago]

Pop let Kawhi dominate in summer league and we saw what hes capable of
even if it isnt the same competition he had the moves
dont know why he lets Jack go iso/post up and never once draws that up for Leonard
we have no idea what hes capable of doing in the nba because he never lets him
ive seen kawhi pull off a few post moves but it happens once every 5ish games and we all know hes automatic in the paint
also has the best mid range percentages on the team

[SupremeGuy]

I'd love to see Kawhi take more control in offensive sets. He seemed more fluid in the offense pre-injury. Something just seems a little off right now.

[SupremeGuy]

KL is too good to be given a limited role, while some heroes on the team love to chuck up shots where there stats are misleading due to the volume shots they are allowed to take....

Leave Gary Neal alone... lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

Remember Kawhi in his rookie season he used to drive to the rim, take jumpers and we were saying "ohh even Kawhi drives and RJ doesn't, isn't Pop who is making RJ just a corner shooter..."

seems like he has regressed from his rookie season...looks familiar with the correlation with blairs career path...

[Dunc n Dave]

Holy hell, I hate when Pop pulls that crap. He makes a simple mistake and pulls him... lame. I mean, who am I? Pop is the man, but damn that annoys me.

edit- Please excuse my drunken grammar. :toast

The simple mistake you refer to is a cardinal rule that Pop has been preaching for YEARS defensively: "NEVER foul a jump shooter." I remember a few years back reading that Pop makes the players run wind sprints in the next practice if they fouled a jump shooter in the previous game.

If Pop preaches it as a cardinal rule, you better listen, or there's consequences.

I'm sure the fact that David Lee has suckered the Spurs into the air with about 3 shot fakes earlier in the half didn't help the matter. Whatcha wanna bet that Pop addressed not going for pump fakes during a timeout, only to see Kawai get suckered right away.

[MR-Clutch]

Does anyone else wonder why he never chases a fast break down from behind to block it lbj style? Dating back to last year this has bothered me, and the only thing I can think of is kawhi not wanting to risk the and 1. He seems to also get beat on the opponents first step pretty often, but usually is able to regain position and contest the shot. Overall, his defense has been a plus. His offense is what is starting to bother me. He doesn't seem to believe he can beat his man off the dribble, and he has a bad tendency of botching layups. This guy needs more touches. Run some pin downs or post ups for Christ sake, it seems like we're unbeatable when kawhi brings the O.

[TDMVPDPOY]

seriously the touches that green and diaw gets areas on the court...should be KL touches and would probably not goto waste from chuckn hesitation or more stupid penetration with the extra past that leads to a turnover or not shooting at all....

out of all the players on the roster, skillset wise he is probably top4 but his not given the green light to fulfill his real potential besides spot up shooter...give him the amount of touches and sort iso plays that green and diaw gets everytime they run into lane with some lame ass layup or turnover, with KL he at leasts he give you something....

[TDMVPDPOY]

Does anyone else wonder why he never chases a fast break down from behind to block it lbj style? Dating back to last year this has bothered me, and the only thing I can think of is kawhi not wanting to risk the and 1. He seems to also get beat on the opponents first step pretty often, but usually is able to regain position and contest the shot. Overall, his defense has been a plus. His offense is what is starting to bother me. He doesn't seem to believe he can beat his man off the dribble, and he has a bad tendency of botching layups. This guy needs more touches. Run some pin downs or post ups for Christ sake, it seems like we're unbeatable when kawhi brings the O.

i think that sort of defensive play is outlawed by the spurs since the ginoboli fiasco in 06 WCF that costs the spurs the series and next round into the finals...

[SupremeGuy]

The simple mistake you refer to is a cardinal rule that Pop has been preaching for YEARS defensively: "NEVER foul a jump shooter." I remember a few years back reading that Pop makes the players run wind sprints in the next practice if they fouled a jump shooter in the previous game.

If Pop preaches it as a cardinal rule, you better listen, or there's consequences.

I'm sure the fact that David Lee has suckered the Spurs into the air with about 3 shot fakes earlier in the half didn't help the matter. Whatcha wanna bet that Pop addressed not going for pump fakes during a timeout, only to see Kawai get suckered right away.

Every starter has fallen for a fake. Pop doesn't pull everyone. I understand he's trying to make a point but a part of me believes he might be stifling what makes Kawhi such a great defender. Every good defender has great base defense, but what separates the greats is their ability to make a defensive play when one might not be feasible; or what typical base defense would not dictate.

[SupremeGuy]

i think that sort of defensive play is outlawed by the spurs since the ginoboli fiasco in 06 WCF that costs the spurs the series and next round into the finals...

Ugghhh... let's not talk about that play

[TDMVPDPOY]

Every starter has fallen for a fake. Pop doesn't pull everyone. I understand he's trying to make a point but a part of me believes he might be stifling what makes Kawhi such a great defender. Every good defender has great base defense, but what separates the greats is their ability to make a defensive play when one might not be feasible; or what typical base defense would not dictate.

his doing that shit on purpose man cause this might be pops last year and he wants to make someone his bitch b4 he goes out with another regular season championship playoff fodder exit team...

[TDMVPDPOY]

I agree, I have seen in several games where he will start to attack the rim and his man will move towards him and he will stop and pass the ball back out. Seems like he don't know what to do once his man comes towards him. So pop leaves him on the 3 point line. I think all the offensive charging calls he was getting before he got hurt may have something to do with it.

its not what he doesnt know what to do, his more afraid of blowing up a play and gettin bench to have his ass dig in and eaten by pop.....out of all the wankers on this team he gets treated differently for no apparent reason

[HarlemHeat37]

Kawhi is one of the most overrated defenders in the NBA IMO..

He's an above average defensive player and as timvp said, he's progressing nicely, but Spurs fans have unfair expectations for him..the media has the perception that he's Pop's lockdown guy(casual media doesn't watch many games and reports based on team sources, obviously)..his frame also gives the indication that he has lockdown potential, with his long arms, impressive hands, etc..

I don't believe Kawhi has figured out his niche in the NBA, and that includes defense..

[TDMVPDPOY]

Kawhi is one of the most overrated defenders in the NBA IMO..

He's an above average defensive player and as timvp said, he's progressing nicely, but Spurs fans have unfair expectations for him..the media has the perception that he's Pop's lockdown guy(casual media doesn't watch many games and reports based on team sources, obviously)..his frame also gives the indication that he has lockdown potential, with his long arms, impressive hands, etc..

I don't believe Kawhi has figured out his niche in the NBA, and that includes defense..

him and danny green gives there player too much spacing to operate...while guys like jax just bodies them up and wears them down, due to his size and age is limited also, but i wish KL and green would decrease the amount of spacing they allow the assigned players to operate or just take a gamble and body man to man....also chasing down a player b4 or after a screen is also a problem on this team

ever since pop started to play the twin tower linep and no more turd towers, the defensive rating has improve alot...

[jiggy_55]

It does piss me off when Pop pulls Kawhi after any simple mistake, he doesn't do that to Danny Green or anyone else on the team.. He does it to Kawhi almost every other game

[Old School 44]

I think Kawhi still has all the tools to be a top caliber starter...more than just a role player. He's only 21. The Spurs still have a veteran core, and right now I think he's still defers to that core.

[swaggerjackson]

Not hating on him, but I have always found his defense a little opportunistic if you will. I mean he gets a lot of deflections and steals, but I would rather have him consistently shut down his man a la Bowen. It is great when he gets four steals in a game, but I am not sure that opponents are worried about being checked by him. When Bowen was playing you knew that other players were not looking forward to going against him. I don't think Kawhi has that effect yet.

[Cane]

According to Engelman's new RAPM, Kawhi has fallen off defensively but got better offensively in this small sample size compared to last season:

Per 100 Possessions: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

12 Kawhi Offense -0.5 Defense +0.6 Overall 0.0
13 Kawhi Offense +0.2 Defense -0.7 Overall -0.5

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think Kawhi still has all the tools to be a top caliber starter...more than just a role player. He's only 21. The Spurs still have a veteran core, and right now I think he's still defers to that core.

I agree. :tu

Btw, Old School, who is that on far right in your old school photos? :smokin

[Cry Havoc]

Kawhi is one of the most overrated defenders in the NBA IMO..

He's an above average defensive player and as timvp said, he's progressing nicely, but Spurs fans have unfair expectations for him..the media has the perception that he's Pop's lockdown guy(casual media doesn't watch many games and reports based on team sources, obviously)..his frame also gives the indication that he has lockdown potential, with his long arms, impressive hands, etc..

I don't believe Kawhi has figured out his niche in the NBA, and that includes defense..

Meh. Defense, especially at the NBA level, is a constant learning process. Kawhi has periods where he is in the zone on D, much like a shooter gets into the zone from deep, and he just shuts his guy down. Other times, he's a step slow and still clearly figuring out how to guard the best athletes in the world at this sport. It's not an easy thing to do regardless of his physical gifts.

The best thing about Kawhi is that he has the potential to play lockdown D in the near/semi-near future. I hope he gets there. I'm puzzled as to why the Spurs don't bring Bowen onboard to have him teach KL the ropes, because even Bowen seems to admire the tools Kawhi has.

[MR-Clutch]

Meh. Defense, especially at the NBA level, is a constant learning process. Kawhi has periods where he is in the zone on D, much like a shooter gets into the zone from deep, and he just shuts his guy down. Other times, he's a step slow and still clearly figuring out how to guard the best athletes in the world at this sport. It's not an easy thing to do regardless of his physical gifts.

The best thing about Kawhi is that he has the potential to play lockdown D in the near/semi-near future. I hope he gets there. I'm puzzled as to why the Spurs don't bring Bowen onboard to have him teach KL the ropes, because even Bowen seems to admire the tools Kawhi has.

Well said my man.

[Leetonidas]

this thread proves that TDMVPDPOY is the worst poster in the history of ST

[Cry Havoc]

Also it should be noted that 2.5+ steals per game guys in the NBA who don't gamble all the time are rare. If for no other reason, that's a great indication that Kawhi has a bright future. He is pretty decent on offense as well.

[AaronY]

it takes a lot of seasoning to become an elite perimeter defender in the NBA.
Avery Bradley
Iman Shumpert

[Wildcat67]

Avery Bradley
Iman Shumpert

Do you watch those guys every game and critique their every move as you do with Kawhi?

I think the problem, as is with most fans, is when someone makes a mistake you are much more likely to remember that then when someone play good solid defense. Not enough people pay attention to all the little things he does that don't show up in the stat sheet. Usually a couple times a game he will force a turnover, but not get credit for a steal or get a hand on the ball of a player going up for a layup throwing off the timing and making him miss.

He does not get blown by often, less often then most, but everyone remembers the times it does happen. Sometimes players make shots despite great defense as well.

I'll tell you what when Kawhi is on the floor I only watch him on the defensive end and take note of all the little things he does. Teams avoid him more this year, which is why it may seem like he has fallen off. He doesn't get the opportunities, and it's why he shines versus guys like Kobe cause he get's his chance to show what he can do, your average NBA player will just see Kawhi in front of him and pass the ball.

As for offensively I think the problem is he is almost always on the court with Tony and Tim. He needs to get more opportunities with the backups to show his offense.

[HarlemHeat37]

Shumpert is an overrated defensive player, he's not a legit stopper..

Avery Bradley is a legit stopper and a special defender, but he's fragile and constantly injured..

[TDMVPDPOY]

no defensive assignment and being passive out there on the court both ends of the court, his just another player on the court making up the numbers....

it helps to overshadow his shitty games, when u have other clowns on the team who are just pure shit for the night that stands out from the rest of the roster - guys like parker, duncan, ginoboli, green, neal, blair, de colo, mills, jax, diaw, pops....

[cd98]

...he looked solid tonight.