PolitiFact's 'Lie of the Year' Turns Out to Be True

[spursncowboys]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/whoops-politifacts-lie-year-turns-out-be-true_696223.html

Jeep production would leave America

Romney said it

BHO and Politifact said it was a lie and called it the Lie of the Year

[boutons_deux]

The Bishop Gecko LIE was that Jeep was closing factory in USA to move it to China.

The Fiat/Chrysler is not moving US jobs to China, but building new factories in China (Europe vehicle demand is WAY down, their instance of the Banksters Great Depression) to supply the Chinese market, not to export them to USA.

So Bishop Gecko's LIE is STILL A LIE, and you're still a slapped bitch.

inherited-wealth 1%-er Billy Kristol is WRONG AGAIN, just like he is on EVERY MAJOR ISSUE.

[ElNono]

Still a lie... 'moving' implies closing US production... no such thing is happening. They're simply opening a factory in China to sell to the Chinese market. Chrysler already does this on other nations. For example, they have a factory in Brazil for that market.

[boutons_deux]

btw, CEO Marchionne was interviewed by NPR. Sounded like serious, authentic guy, with none of the bullshit and buzz words American CEOs spew.

CEO Marchionne Drives Chrysler's Dramatic Turnaround
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/18/169684984/ceo-marchionne-drives-chryslers-dramatic-turnaround

btw, you xenophobes who hate listening to accented English, Marchionne speaks a much better English than the average tongue-tied American.

[ChumpDumper]

Seems it's a frontrunner for Lie of the Year 2013 as well.

SnC, read this very closely and tell me who is full of shit -- Kristol or Politifact:
When Fiat got Chrysler, it got Jeep. Right before the ad came out, Romney told a crowd in Defiance, Ohio, that plans were afoot to shift the Jeep jobs in Ohio to China.

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China," Romney said.
By expanding Jeep production to China, instead of increasing Jeep production in the U.S., it's safe to say Jeep (or more properly, Fiat, which now owns Chrysler) is choosing to create more jobs overseas instead of in America where taxpayers bailed the company out.See what he did there?

He made a straw man for you to beat up. He's being completely disingenuous. You are either being completely disingenuous or completely incurious and gullible. Neither the original lie nor the new one survive an even cursory examination. It's sad that this is what Republicans have been reduced to. I can't wait to see the next "No AR-15 was used at Sandy Hook" post.

[spursncowboys]

Yeah that's what I thought El nono. But that is what Romney said. Then in Ohio, he stated that they would move jobs. It would be naive to think that once the Govt. stops subsidizing companies like Chrystler or Fiat for that matter, that they wouldn't close more expensive plants (US) and maintain them in cheaper ones (China)- especially if they have a larger growth for sales in the cheaper plant's country.

My point wasn't that it has come true. Just how Politifact was wrong in their 'Lie of the Year' to be that. I think Romney, Obama, GOP, and the Dems made far greater lies than that one.
Middle class taxes not going up comes to mind

[spursncowboys]

Do you think in the next four years that Chrystler won't slash jobs in pre existing US plants?

[ElNono]

Yeah that's what I thought El nono. But that is what Romney said. Then in Ohio, he stated that they would move jobs. It would be naive to think that once the Govt. stops subsidizing companies like Chrystler or Fiat for that matter, that they wouldn't close more expensive plants (US) and maintain them in cheaper ones (China)- especially if they have a larger growth for sales in the cheaper plant's country.

My point wasn't that it has come true. Just how Politifact was wrong in their 'Lie of the Year' to be that. I think Romney, Obama, GOP, and the Dems made far greater lies than that one.
Middle class taxes not going up comes to mind


Do you think in the next four years that Chrystler won't slash jobs in pre existing US plants?

I don't discount anything, simply because we've all seen first hand that bottom line trumps country almost every time. I would note that corporate welfare isn't isolated to Chrysler. A lot of companies get subsidized through different means and that seem to be the only way the US has been able to retain a semblance of competitiveness.

I still think the bailout for some of these auto companies go well beyond the companies themselves, but also their surrounding ecosystem (dealers, parts stores, etc).

All that said, this will stop being a lie the day Chrysler does indeed closes US plants and starts importing their vehicles to the US market. That has not happened yet.

[boutons_deux]

Do you think in the next four years that Chrystler won't slash jobs in pre existing US plants?

If the Repugs get their severe austerity measures passed, there will layoffs in every sector.

[spursncowboys]

I don't discount anything, simply because we've all seen first hand that bottom line trumps country almost every time. I would note that corporate welfare isn't isolated to Chrysler. A lot of companies get subsidized through different means and that seem to be the only way the US has been able to retain a semblance of competitiveness.

I still think the bailout for some of these auto companies go well beyond the companies themselves, but also their surrounding ecosystem (dealers, parts stores, etc).

All that said, this will stop being a lie the day Chrysler does indeed closes US plants and starts importing their vehicles to the US market. That has not happened yet.


Wednesday, January 9, 2013
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/honda-motor-ford-motor-general-105210484.html
Many global automakers, including Ford Motor Co. (F (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=f)) and General Motors Company (GM (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=gm)), and many European automakers such as PSA Peugeot (PEUGY (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=peugy)) andFiat SpA (FIATY (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=fiaty)) are resorting to job cuts and plant closures, as it became no longer feasible for them to undertake full-fledged operations in the continent. Honda is no exception. Demand for cars continues to slump in Europe’s major markets, including France and Germany.
Tuesday, January 15, 2013http://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-agree-build-jeeps-china-185155132.html

Automakers agree to build Jeeps for China market


Hope I'm wrong assuming this but the writing seems to be on the wall.
I always wondered why jeeps didn't try and open their market share up to all the markets with smaller roads. Seemed like a no brainer 20 years ago

[ElNono]

Wednesday, January 9, 2013
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/honda-motor-ford-motor-general-105210484.html
[/FONT][/COLOR]Tuesday, January 15, 2013http://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-agree-build-jeeps-china-185155132.html

Automakers agree to build Jeeps for China market

Hope I'm wrong assuming this but the writing seems to be on the wall.
I always wondered why jeeps didn't try and open their market share up to all the markets with smaller roads. Seemed like a no brainer 20 years ago

That's in Europe. According to the article linked to the OP story, demand is still strong in the US:

Since Fiat helped rescue Chrysler from bankruptcy in 2009, the U.S. No.3 automaker has turned into the main profit driver for the combined group thanks to strong U.S. demand.

[ElNono]

The other issue is what passes for having a 'factory' in the US... companies like Toyota only assemble in their San Antonio plant. The vast majority of the actual parts are made elsewhere.

[boutons_deux]

The other issue is what passes for having a 'factory' in the US... companies like Toyota only assemble in their San Antonio plant. The vast majority of the actual parts are made elsewhere.

if the parts are sourced in USA, who cares?

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah that's what I thought El nono. But that is what Romney said. Then in Ohio, he stated that they would move jobs. It would be naive to think that once the Govt. stops subsidizing companies like Chrystler or Fiat for that matter, that they wouldn't close more expensive plants (US) and maintain them in cheaper ones (China)- especially if they have a larger growth for sales in the cheaper plant's country.

My point wasn't that it has come true. Just how Politifact was wrong in their 'Lie of the Year' to be that. I think Romney, Obama, GOP, and the Dems made far greater lies than that one.
Middle class taxes not going up comes to mindNope.Romney took a bloggers lie and repeated it.

It was the biggest lie of the year and there's nothing he or Kristol or you can do about it.

Thanks for moving the goalposts again though. Maybe you'll be right someday and try bumping the thread again.

[ElNono]

if the parts are sourced in USA, who cares?

People that used to make the parts and no longer do care...

[Borat Sagyidev]

China buys more cars than the US. We should sell to them

end discussion.

[spursncowboys]

That's in Europe. According to the article linked to the OP story, demand is still strong in the US:


Europe-where Fiat is located.

[ElNono]

Europe-where Fiat is located.

Fiat is headquartered there, but they're everywhere. As the article says, they make the most money on the American market now.

Growing up in South America, most cars sold there are European too... Fiat, Renault, Peugeot, etc.

It makes sense they want to tap the Asian market, for obvious reasons.

[spursncowboys]

I completely agree. They should want to open up markets. I feel like I'm sounding like a negative nelly. FTR I hope it isn't coming true...


It was confirmed that at least some Jeeps will be manufactured outside the US in the near future. The plan is to produce a new, smaller Jeep in Italy that will be sold in Europe and also exported to America. The question now is, how many more American-made Chrysler products are at risk of being outsourced? Marchionne's answers to analysts' questions give insight into the mindset of Fiat's management regarding where the company's loyalties lie.Marchionne announced that he wants full "unification" of Fiat and Chrysler by 2015 and made clear that Italian manufacturing facilities are going to have priority as European problems continue to plague Fiat's operations. Italian plants are operating at only 45% capacity, according to the call. In spite of that, there are no plans to make cuts at the plants, rather a focus on utilizing the plants for new models and vehicles to be exported to an already competitive American market. One can not rule out the possibility that American jobs will be put at risk as vehicles that would otherwise be made in the US will end up being produced in Italy or elsewhere. One of Marchionne's answers during the Q&A session may be the most telling.
The question asked was, "Could we see Chrysler funding some of the CAPEX (capital expenditure) for the Jeep vehicles to be produced out of Italy or will that all come from the Fiat side?" Marchionne gave the following logical answer that may have been a warning to the US that, if manufacturing costs are not kept in check, Fiat stands ready to produce the cars elsewhere.

http://nlpc.org/stories/2012/10/30/fiat%E2%80%99s-benchmark-outsource-chrysler-jeep-%E2%80%93-1-savings

[spursncowboys]

The reason why this is political is that Obama sought out Fiat and then convinced Fiat to buy out the US Treasury's and Canada's cut.

[Wild Cobra]

What matters now is if they close the Us production or not.

[spursncowboys]

What matters now is if they close the Us production or not.
Which the president pretty much said he would.

"At the end of the day, if any brand belongs to the other organization and to the extent that, in the case of Jeep for example, which is owned by Chrysler; if Fiat is manufacturing a car for them, the only requirement that it should really worry about is that the alternative production that is being provided by Fiat is available at at least one dollar cheaper than Jeep can do it on its own. And so, as long as that benchmark standard is met than the financing has to follow, right? I mean if you are willing to fund it on your own terms then you should be able to fund it for somebody else. So the possibility of that happening is undoubtedly part of the plan and I think it's something we need to continue to develop."

[spursncowboys]

Fiat Says [all]Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Riseshttp://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html

[ElNono]

Well, that's what I pointed out earlier. I don't discount anything and for 'market purists', Fiat does have a fiduciary duty to maximize revenue for their shareholders.

But, again, until Chrysler factories are closed in the US and cars are imported in, it's still a lie.

America just isn't competitive. States like Texas do mammoth corporate welfare to keep plants like Samsung and Toyota in town, and it's the only way to keep those jobs there.

[boutons_deux]

"America just isn't competitive"

It competes very well in quality of life for employees, against Asian and South Asian peasants.