Bryant takes blame

[irishock]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225693/Kobe_Takes_Blame_For_Lakers_Disappointing_Season

After Sunday's loss to the Toronto Raptors, the Los Angeles Lakers fell to 17-23, three games out of the eighth seed in the Western Conference. The season has been a colossal disappointment so far, and Kobe Bryant was willing to shoulder the blame not only for Sunday's defeat, but also for the entire season.
"That's on me," Bryant said. "I'll take this loss on me, gladly. It was a lot of easy shots -- a lot of them -- that I should put down. I will, I will. That's just on me.
"Everybody wants to know what's the reason, whose fault it is and this, that and the other. I just made it more easy. You should just point the finger at me. Let me take all that. This way, we won't have to worry about that as a team. It's part of my responsibility. I'll take [the criticism] and we can just focus on what we do best, which is playing together and trying to figure out how to get out of this losing."
Even so, Bryant indirectly brought Lakers management in the discussion.
"Unless they're going to do something roster-wise, I got to continue to push through it," Bryant said. "If this is what we're rolling with, then I can't make excuses. I got to go out there and do my job."

[Reck]

You know you could have posted this on the "Kobe wants roster changes" thread right?

[irishock]

Better thread title honestly. The other one was cherry picking. this has a non-biased approach with the entire article.

[freetiago]

poor kobe
management only brought those scrubs dwight nash and jamison in the offseason
how will he win without any help

[DPG21920]

"If this is what we are rolling with, then I can't make excuses" :lol Mind blown

[Ghazi]

There is no realistic trade that can propel the Lakers.

[Ghazi]

They made additions last year that didn't work out, now they've added Nash/Howard and it looks like a mediocre product through 40 games.

Sometimes a teams window passes it by and there's not much it can really do about it.

Lakers remind me of the Mavs from 2008-2010 right now tbh... a team trying everything to get over the hump and failing (Kidd trade, Marion, Butler/Haywood), until big daddy Chandler came to the rescue.

[Brunodf]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225693/Kobe_Takes_Blame_For_Lakers_Disappointing_Season


"Everybody wants to know what's the reason, whose fault it is and this, that and the other.I just made it more easy. You should just point the finger at me. Let me take all that. This way, we won't have to worry about that as a team.It's part of my responsibility. I'll take [the criticism] and we can just focus on what we do best, which is playing together and trying to figure out how to get out of this losing."


Wut?

[NRHector]

Stern has turned his back on his protege Kobe becuase he's old, now his new NBA protege is Durant, is obvious afte watching a few Thunderefs game

[Clipper Nation]

"If this is what we are rolling with, then I can't make excuses" :lol Mind blown
THAT'S Kobe's idea of "taking blame"? :lmao

[irishock]

Stern has turned his back on his protege Kobe becuase he's old, now his new NBA protege is Durant, is obvious afte watching a few Thunderefs game

Same goes with Wade. After yelling at Stern during the CBA negotiations, he didn't get a single call after that :lmao

[StrengthAndHonor]

Stern has turned his back on his protege Kobe becuase he's old, now his new NBA protege is Durant, is obvious afte watching a few Thunderefs game

I was going to agree but Lebron also doesn't get as much call as Durant and Bron is the face of the league. KD seems like a good guy, but because of the amount of calls he gets, I always find myself rooting against the ProActive kid.

[Reck]

I was going to agree but Lebron also doesn't get as much call as Durant and Bron is the face of the league. KD seems like a good guy, but because of the amount of calls he gets, I always find myself rooting against the ProActive kid.

Lebron used to get calls when he wasn't confident enough. Now that he has gotten over the 4th quarter choke jobs he mastered all those years prior Stern and his troops are kind of letting him be his own man now.

One thing I dont understand is that Durant still gets bailed out even when he's clutch enough in the 4th and in a good team but somehow still needs the refs to be there when things dont look so good.

At least with Lebron you coul said he had absolutely no one to count on in Cleveland. Durant, not so much.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Lebron used to get calls when he wasn't confident enough. Now that he has gotten over the 4th quarter choke jobs he mastered all those years prior Stern and his troops are kind of letting him be his own man now.

One thing I dont understand is that Durant still gets bailed out even when he's clutch enough in the 4th and in a good team but somehow still needs the refs to be there when things dont look so good.

At least with Lebron you coul said he had absolutely no one to count on in Cleveland. Durant, not so much.

Word. Don't understand the need to proctect a guy whose so efficient in the first place. It seems like when teams are making a small comeback, refs would absolutely call any contact against Durant on the 4th to put the game away.

[rayjayjohnson]

That's like saying "That's on me. It's everyone else's fault, so blame me because I'm such a leader."

Kobe, king of the It's my fault, but... excuses.

[StrengthAndHonor]

I like his twit though. He said no excuses then immediately after that he said his shots are off because his legs are dead tired playing 42 mins a game :lol

[NRHector]

Lebron used to get calls when he wasn't confident enough. Now that he has gotten over the 4th quarter choke jobs he mastered all those years prior Stern and his troops are kind of letting him be his own man now.

One thing I dont understand is that Durant still gets bailed out even when he's clutch enough in the 4th and in a good team but somehow still needs the refs to be there when things dont look so good.

At least with Lebron you coul said he had absolutely no one to count on in Cleveland. Durant, not so much.

that's because he's still taking baby steps just like Lebron when he was in Cleveland. And like you said, once Durant starts getting his confidence then he'll be on his own

[Koolaid_Man]

THAT'S Kobe's idea of "taking blame"? :lmao

hey Puto...you're seriously entering Mavs>Spurs territory...just a straight fag, punk and a bitch....I'd give anything to fucking bitch slap your ass into next week. I can deal with the faggott ass Spur fans talking shit they got some rings and credibility you know....even the dick riding Heat fans got a little bit...the Thunder fans at least try to show some respect for the great Kobe...but Mav and Clipper fan shit talk is totally unacceptable..I mean totally unacceptable...especially Clipper fan...your team hasn't never been relevant... and all of a sudden you pop up like a jack in the box...you come on this bitch talking shit like you're royalty...I want to take my belt off and fucking beat the shit outta your ass...

fuck you Puto fuck you....

[Koolaid_Man]

Better thread title honestly. The other one was cherry picking. this has a non-biased approach with the entire article.

thank you

[KL2]

Stern has no use for the Lakers, he tossed them aside like a cheap ass crack whore, there's a new bitch in town, the Clippers.

[Koolaid_Man]

"If this is what we are rolling with, then I can't make excuses" :lol Mind blown

I piss in White Russians...literally :hat go head the next one is on tha house

[ambchang]

I will take the blame. But it's actually everybody else's fault. :(.

[dunkman]

iKoMe strikes again tbh . . .

[Raven]

so if he was so tired and he saw his shot was short, why didn't he pass the ball and let others shoot?

[Killakobe81]

Kobe deserves at LEAST 50% of the blame for the last 2 losses...as for the roster ...those that say this team should be better than this current record are absolutely correct. But anyone that thinks this roster is not flawed dont know ish about ball. Sure their chemistry sucks and you can take Kobe, D'antoni to task for poor leadership ...but this roster is no where chapionship caliber and Phil Jackson, Riley or Pop could not change that.

I dont get why you guys are making a big deal out of him wanting a change. Dirk said the same thing more or less a few weeks back ... These guys are winners and want to win. Sure maybe they are somewhat throwing their current team/team-mates under the bus ...but who cares? Their time (career) is running short ...I admire that.

Also a small change can help immensely if the goal is making the playoffs and maybe "scaring" someone. No this team is not winning a championship I said that all off-season. I did think it would make WCF but lose to OKC but now even making the playoffs looks precarious at best.

Lakers biggest flaws are:
1. an atheltic SF that can defend 1-3 and can hit an occasional 3 pointer
2. A more mobile 4 (Pau is mobile for a center slow for a PF)
3. A reliable bench scorer (Meeks has been a disappointment)

Fixing those 3 spots even if it cost PAU at 75 cents or 50 cents on the dollar whould help or half-court defense with rotating after help onthe penetration allowed by or old back-court and with getting back in transition after our many turnovers.. I get that his cap hold may be more valuable than that ...I also dont think he is done .... but I think on the right team he is still capable of 15 and 8 ... but this team is not going anywhere past the first round (if that) if they stand pat.

Sure you guys will crucify Kobe if they miss the playoffs and rightfully so if they do ... but keep in mind Hakeem, Kareem (IIRC), Shaq and Nash are other HOF players that have missed them. And does making the playoffs and getting curb-stomped in the first round take any of the stink off this season for Kobe/Lakers?
Just saying missing playoffs is comical but in the big picture who cares? Season is a failure by any definition and sneaking in teh playoffs wont change that for me.

[Mal]

Sure you guys will crucify Kobe if they miss the playoffs and rightfully so if they do ... but keep in mind Hakeem, Kareem (IIRC), Shaq and Nash are other HOF players that have missed them. And does making the playoffs and getting curb-stomped in the first round take any of the stink off this season for Kobe/Lakers?
Just saying missing playoffs is comical but in the big picture who cares? Season is a failure by any definition and sneaking in teh playoffs wont change that for me.

I dont recall, but did Hakkem Kareem etc did it with 3 other HOF in team, which cost 100 mln annually and being league scoring leader ?

[Leetonidas]

Even when he admits it's his fault he still comes off as a narcissistic douche

[Killakobe81]

I dont recall, but did Hakeem Kareem etc did it with 3 other HOF in team, which cost 100 mln annually and being league scoring leader ?

Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs. Shaq had Nash and Amare ... Pau is only a HOF based on international play ...and NAsh is old. What does that sound like ... excuses? Exactly. Lakers dont deserve excuses and the other guys that missed it don't either ...

[Killakobe81]

Even when he admits it's his fault he still comes off as a narcissistic douche

And that is a surprise? he always has been ...what is your point? Was he less of one when he was winning?

[Leetonidas]

:cry stop talking shit about kobe :cry

[Killakobe81]

:cry stop talking shit about kobe :cry

I dont mind I came here for that ... I was just pointing out how is taht a newsflash? The guy is an asshole ...

You guys bashing Kobe is why I cam here and chose the username I did ...If I wanted to see more Kobe knob polishing would of logged on to LG ...

[whitemamba]

I dont mind I came here for that ... I was just pointing out how is taht a newsflash? The guy is an asshole ...

You guys bashing Kobe is why I cam here and chose the username I did ...If I wanted to see more Kobe knob polishing would of logged on to LG ...

actually hes really nice tbh

[Killakobe81]

actually hes really nice tbh

Doubt it. Cool maybe. Generous...sure (money not with passing LOL)

But the guys has called himself an asshole and I have watched him since day one ...I agree. But of course, I dont know him, so just basing it off interviews etc. So it is specualtive ...

He reminds of the Eminem song "whatever I say I am" ...

[whitemamba]

Doubt it. Cool maybe. Generous...sure (money not with passing LOL)

But guys has called himself an asshole and I have watched him since day one ...I agree.

he lives right by me, every person that sees him which is alot says hes really cool. never heard one bad thing from any other locals. but i think he means in term of basketball, like if you suck hes going to be an a hole. sounds like he says that to motivate imho

[Leetonidas]

I dont mind I came here for that ... I was just pointing out how is taht a newsflash? The guy is an asshole ...

You guys bashing Kobe is why I cam here and chose the username I did ...If I wanted to see more Kobe knob polishing would of logged on to LG ...

I'm just pointing out that even when he's admitting it's his fault and attempting to be "humble," he still makes a lot of backhanded comments and it basically reads like "yeah we suck, I'll take the blame cus it's MY team, I eat first, I'm the leader etc, but really these niggas need to play harder or Mitch needs to make a trade"

[whitemamba]

I'm just pointing out that even when he's admitting it's his fault and attempting to be "humble," he still makes a lot of backhanded comments and it basically reads like "yeah we suck, I'll take the blame cus it's MY team, I eat first, I'm the leader etc, but really these niggas need to play harder or Mitch needs to make a trade"

kind of sounds like ur making it up in your head tbh. lol even he takes blame you find a way to :downspin:it.. i dont understand why your so obsessed with what he says all the time.

[Killakobe81]

I'm just pointing out that even when he's admitting it's his fault and attempting to be "humble," he still makes a lot of backhanded comments and it basically reads like "yeah we suck, I'll take the blame cus it's MY team, I eat first, I'm the leader etc, but really these niggas need to play harder or Mitch needs to make a trade"

I think you are right. But I did not read it as he was being humble. I think he was frustrated with continued questions on what is wrong and he took the blame. I think part of it was definitely ego driven ... but his ego has been out of control since day 1. .. But Lee look at this forum. Very few are blaming Dwight or Mike d so he is right ... if you look at the posters here it is HIS team because most of the blame is being placed directly on him and rightfully so.

I just laugh because when rings are discussed in regards to legacy it's a "team accompishment" but when the Lakers suck it's a Kobe failure ...

But Hey I blame him too but the hypocrisy of some of the posters here is hilarious ... let me say it again Im placing the majority of the blame here on Kobe for Toronto and the Miami game. But also so give him a lot of the praise for the rings too ...

[DPG21920]

I dont get why you guys are making a big deal out of him wanting a change. Dirk said the same thing more or less a few weeks back ... These guys are winners and want to win. Sure maybe they are somewhat throwing their current team/team-mates under the bus ...but who cares? Their time (career) is running short ...I admire that.

.

There is a world of difference in Dirk saying that and Kobe. Again, if this was the Smush Parker Lakers, I fully understand complaining. But when you have HOF/Still Healthy/2 time MVP Nash, Dwight Howard, MVP Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol you look like a spoiled can't cut it hack who needs the deck so unbelievably stacked in your favor to win that you aren't considered an all time great.

Dirk is playing with a bunch of 1 year deal, non-superstar players with 1/100th of the basketball talent or pedigree that Kobe's teammates have.

[Killakobe81]

There is a world of difference in Dirk saying that and Kobe. Again, if this was the Smush Parker Lakers, I fully understand complaining. But when you have HOF/Still Healthy/2 time MVP Nash, Dwight Howard, MVP Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol you look like a spoiled can't cut it hack who needs the deck so unbelievably stacked in your favor to win that you aren't considered an all time great.

Dirk is playing with a bunch of 1 year deal, non-superstar players with 1/100th of the basketball talent or pedigree that Kobe's teammates have.

Vince and Marion are borderline HOF candidates (especially VC) both are former all-stars .. Which is all Nash and Pau are at this point as well. I agree they have under-achieved and Kobe deserves some of the blame ...

But a star not happy with his team that is under-performing makes sense to me ... my point is Mavs have played better since so maybe Kobe is grasping at straws ... not sure why.

Just find the uproar on here about it "amusing". LOL at Calling Kobe a "hack" ...

DPG you know you my boy but you better than that ...

How is losing in the first round with HCA much diffrent than missing the playoffs? And does Kobe help his legacy by sneaking them in as an 8th seed?

Look not saying this to flame duncan ...but aren't both Kobe and duncan past their primes? ALL im saying is fans here make excuses for who they want to. I get it ...but just calling out those that do (not speaking of you DPG)

[DPG21920]

If you complain about your teammates and say things like "if this is all management can do, I'll just have to roll with it"when you have one of the most stacked teams talent wise (regardless of fit) - IMO you are a front running coattailer.

Have you ever heard Duncan say something like that? He's been dealing with Bonner/Blair/Diaw front court mates for a while now..Kobe has never, and I mean never taken a team that wasn't a pretty unanimous clear cut favorite from a talent standpoint to a finals.

[Killakobe81]

If you complain about your teammates and say things like "if this is all management can do, I'll just have to roll with it"when you have one of the most stacked teams talent wise (regardless of fit) - IMO you are a front running coattailer.

Have you ever heard Duncan say something like that? He's been dealing with Bonner/Blair/Diaw front court mates for a while now..Kobe has never, and I mean never taken a team that wasn't a pretty unanimous clear cut favorite from a talent standpoint to a finals.

I dont think Lakers were clear-cut favorites in 2008 but whatever that is debatable. We all know Tim and Kobe have little in common ... how is this team stacked? They are way top heavy but the top heavy pieces are old or coming off back injury ... I agree they are playing worse than their talent but this team is not great. To me Kobe deserves more blame for losing in 2004 than he would for this season but that is just me ...he was in his prime And Shaq was closer to his.

I actually agree Kobe's legacy should take a hit for this season, I just think it is a small one ... and you guys are actling like it should take him out of top 10 consideration which is silly. The fact is most of you never had him in it in the first place ...and are just using this as a leg to stand on in that argument or to further Duncan over Kobe debates.

[Leetonidas]

Once the Lakeshow got Gasol, they were definitely the favorite in 2008 (in the West, I assume DPG means that since he's talking about Kobe taking a team to the finals) and a lot of people thought they would beat the Celtics that year. But as far as the WC goes, the Lakers had a good record before Gasol came, and once he was there, it was over. Everyone knew they would be representing the West that year (outside of Spurs fans who didn't foresee Manu hurting his ankle that postseason)

[Leetonidas]

And by the way, I'm not discrediting Kobe's game or anything, just his attitude. Dude is balling this year, although recently his numbers are falling back to Earth, but with the talent he has maybe he shouldn't be taking 25+ shots a game like he's playing with Smush Parker and Chris Mihm next to him instead of Steve Nash and Dwight Howard.

Also for the most part, his defense has been pretty atrocious this year

[ambchang]

Kobe deserves at LEAST 50% of the blame for the last 2 losses...as for the roster ...those that say this team should be better than this current record are absolutely correct. But anyone that thinks this roster is not flawed dont know ish about ball. Sure their chemistry sucks and you can take Kobe, D'antoni to task for poor leadership ...but this roster is no where chapionship caliber and Phil Jackson, Riley or Pop could not change that.

So a superstar requires good teammates to win games? Really? Whatever happens to the ranking players by # of championships arguments?

And you make it sound like a franchise player not having great leadership is a forgivable flaw. It’s not. It’s a major part of being a franchise player.


I dont get why you guys are making a big deal out of him wanting a change. Dirk said the same thing more or less a few weeks back ... These guys are winners and want to win. Sure maybe they are somewhat throwing their current team/team-mates under the bus ...but who cares? Their time (career) is running short ...I admire that.

Because management made a huge change and mortgage their entire future and flexibility already. And also because this is pretty much the best roster money can buy. Dirk did that because everybody can see the Mavs roster is horrible, and Dirk didn’t have a history of throwing his teammates under the bus.


Also a small change can help immensely if the goal is making the playoffs and maybe "scaring" someone. No this team is not winning a championship I said that all off-season. I did think it would make WCF but lose to OKC but now even making the playoffs looks precarious at best.

Lakers biggest flaws are:
1. an atheltic SF that can defend 1-3 and can hit an occasional 3 pointer
2. A more mobile 4 (Pau is mobile for a center slow for a PF)
3. A reliable bench scorer (Meeks has been a disappointment)

The best big in the league is not enough.
A HoF PG designed to run an efficient offense is not enough
A turn back the clock year by one of the best defensive SF in league history is not enough.
Kobe has to have perfection in the roster, because he deserves it, right? We are not talking about winning a championship, we are talking about making the playoffs, or at least have a respectable run.


Fixing those 3 spots even if it cost PAU at 75 cents or 50 cents on the dollar whould help or half-court defense with rotating after help onthe penetration allowed by or old back-court and with getting back in transition after our many turnovers.. I get that his cap hold may be more valuable than that ...I also dont think he is done .... but I think on the right team he is still capable of 15 and 8 ... but this team is not going anywhere past the first round (if that) if they stand pat.

So after saying Kobe is 50% responsible for the last two losses (not the season, just the two losses), you are saying Pau is the problem, and getting rid of him and him alone will make the Lakers a better team. I can see why you are such a big fan of Kobe, because both of you think the universe revolves around Kobe.


Sure you guys will crucify Kobe if they miss the playoffs and rightfully so if they do ... but keep in mind Hakeem, Kareem (IIRC), Shaq and Nash are other HOF players that have missed them. And does making the playoffs and getting curb-stomped in the first round take any of the stink off this season for Kobe/Lakers?
Just saying missing playoffs is comical but in the big picture who cares? Season is a failure by any definition and sneaking in teh playoffs wont change that for me.
Hmmm, Hakeem missed the playoffs after half his team was kicked out of the league for drug abuse, and he missed 12 games due to an eye socket injury (if I remember correctly).
Kareem missed the playoffs because his team went 3-13 when he missed games due to an injured wrist, and would have made the playoffs easily if his team had the same winning percentage in those 16 games as they had with him in the other games. Missed another playoffs because of divisions-based playoff rosters, and finishing with a better record than 3 other playoff teams in the same conference that year.
Shaq missed the playoffs in his rookie year, hardly his prime
Nash has never been, and will never be in the conversation of top 10 ever, probably not even top 20 or 30 ever in any reasonable discussions.
Looking forward to the day when you mentioned how the Spurs missed the playoffs during Robinson’s prime (when he played 6 games), or how Jordan missed the playoffs when he was playing with the Wizards.

[timvp]

Kobe with that passive-aggressive gibberish tbh.

[ambchang]

Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs. Shaq had Nash and Amare ... Pau is only a HOF based on international play ...and NAsh is old. What does that sound like ... excuses? Exactly. Lakers dont deserve excuses and the other guys that missed it don't either ...

You can't be serious. You are talking about a washed-up ring chasing shaq on a phoenix team that didn't have Amare for 30 games, no JRich for 25, and no Bell for 60 games, that Suns team?

[silverblk mystix]

hey Puto...you're seriously entering Mavs>Spurs territory...just a straight fag, punk and a bitch....I'd give anything to fucking bitch slap your ass into next week. I can deal with the faggott ass Spur fans talking shit they got some rings and credibility you know....even the dick riding Heat fans got a little bit...the Thunder fans at least try to show some respect for the great Kobe...but Mav and Clipper fan shit talk is totally unacceptable..I mean totally unacceptable...especially Clipper fan...your team hasn't never been relevant... and all of a sudden you pop up like a jack in the box...you come on this bitch talking shit like you're royalty...I want to take my belt off and fucking beat the shit outta your ass...

fuck you Puto fuck you....



:lmao



A butt-hurt pissed off troll...

[Killakobe81]

So a superstar requires good teammates to win games? Really? Whatever happens to the ranking players by # of championships arguments?

And you make it sound like a franchise player not having great leadership is a forgivable flaw. It’s not. It’s a major part of being a franchise player.



Because management made a huge change and mortgage their entire future and flexibility already. And also because this is pretty much the best roster money can buy. Dirk did that because everybody can see the Mavs roster is horrible, and Dirk didn’t have a history of throwing his teammates under the bus.



The best big in the league is not enough.
A HoF PG designed to run an efficient offense is not enough
A turn back the clock year by one of the best defensive SF in league history is not enough.
Kobe has to have perfection in the roster, because he deserves it, right? We are not talking about winning a championship, we are talking about making the playoffs, or at least have a respectable run.



So after saying Kobe is 50% responsible for the last two losses (not the season, just the two losses), you are saying Pau is the problem, and getting rid of him and him alone will make the Lakers a better team. I can see why you are such a big fan of Kobe, because both of you think the universe revolves around Kobe.


Hmmm, Hakeem missed the playoffs after half his team was kicked out of the league for drug abuse, and he missed 12 games due to an eye socket injury (if I remember correctly).
Kareem missed the playoffs because his team went 3-13 when he missed games due to an injured wrist, and would have made the playoffs easily if his team had the same winning percentage in those 16 games as they had with him in the other games. Missed another playoffs because of divisions-based playoff rosters, and finishing with a better record than 3 other playoff teams in the same conference that year.
Shaq missed the playoffs in his rookie year, hardly his prime
Nash has never been, and will never be in the conversation of top 10 ever, probably not even top 20 or 30 ever in any reasonable discussions.
Looking forward to the day when you mentioned how the Spurs missed the playoffs during Robinson’s prime (when he played 6 games), or how Jordan missed the playoffs when he was playing with the Wizards.

So much failure and assumptions in your response:

1. Where did I say that he lacked leadership? OR did I say that if he did it was forgiveable? Also I read the whole quote ....Kobe never asked for more help. I trusted the dumbasses on this forum and ran with that but the full quote did not even say that ...in fact he said no ... here is the full quote Does Bryant believe the Lakers' front office needs to make a move? "No," he said. "Listen, if this is what we're rolling with, I can't make excuses. I have to go out there and do my job."

2. Please don't misquote me I said when two player are close (Bird and Magic or duncan/Shaq/Kobe) rings should be the decidor. I never said it is flat rings means you are better. But nice try.

3. I dont care who has what on their team ... I have no issue with any star player especially a proven champion ... making a complaint if the end resut is wanting to win. Kobe gripes about management helped spur the Gasol trade.

4. Thanks for spinning another fine example of the hypocrisy on this thread. Shaq misses the playoffs twice and you excuse both. With the he is not in in his prime and or other injury excuses. I am making none for Kobe ... or this version of the Lakers but plenty can make similar BS excuses. Let me ask you this is Kobe, Nash or Pau in their primes? Have the Lakers had injuries. So let's go ahead excuse this one for Kobe ... No. So get out of there with that hypocritical bull-shit. Or how about using the Smush or Kwame excuse for 2005? He MISSED the playoffs period. You have made that case so why does Hakeem. Kareem or Shaq get a pass remember bigs ALSO have more impact on the game ...remember?

5. Please define at LEAST for me ...I never said only 50% ...and the reason I used the last 2 games because they have been two of his least efficient efforts all season and I think that (his performance) is what sparked his comments you guys have taken out of context. Of course he deserves blame for this season ... go back and read what I said earlier his legacy deserves a hit if he misses but it should not be a huge one because how is squeaking in to the playoffs make this season any better? I never once bought in to this team as legit title contenders in fact I have not argued that since we got swept by the Mavs. My respect for Kobe doesnt blind me to the fact he is past his prime and the HOF help he has is not being utilized properly by the coach or Kobe. But even before this season started one of the biggest Laker fans anyone could ever know (me) picked the Lakers to lose in the WCF. So for me failure is not making it to the WCF ANYTHING short of the second round of the palyoffs was a failure based on my assessment of the team's ceiling of the WCF and a success if they made it that far. A first round loss to avoid the didnt miss playoffs stigma does little for me.

6. I never said it was all on Pau, or he is the reason for us losing. I said he still has value and they could addreess to other needs ... please show me where I said it was all on Pau.


Look I know amb you are enjoying the Lakers (and Kobe's struggles) but no need to make-up shit or make assumptions on things I post. I have not played the injury card or the "not in prime" card but if you can play that for duncan losing 1 to 8 or shaq missing the playoffs with a Nash 3 years younger than this one or for Hakeem ... I dont get why you act so obtuse here. Are you arguing Kobe is in his prime? Are you arguing that this version of Nash is better than the one Shaq played with?

Thing is you can be a great poster but your hate blinds you here. Of course I have some Kobe bias, to a degree, Im a Laker fan ...but your hate clouds your posting ability mightily. You make some good points but your disdain for Kobe makes you take such wild leaps to where you take something i said and infer all kinds of crap behind it. I think I would enjoy you discussing something non Kobe or Duncan related. Like Maybe Isiah vs. Cp3 vs. stockton. Or GP vs. Kidd

But duncan and Kobe? your posts are shite :lol

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao ambchang going in on killakobe, who's still making excuses for Kobe.


Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs.

:lmao

Yes. Missing the PO with 3 HOF teammates and $100,000,000 in salary is the same as missing the playoffs as a rookie, or with shit for a roster. :lmao

Kobe = most overrated player in NBA history.

[Koolaid_Man]

If you complain about your teammates and say things like "if this is all management can do, I'll just have to roll with it"when you have one of the most stacked teams talent wise (regardless of fit) - IMO you are a front running coattailer.

Have you ever heard Duncan say something like that? He's been dealing with Bonner/Blair/Diaw front court mates for a while now..Kobe has never, and I mean never taken a team that wasn't a pretty unanimous clear cut favorite from a talent standpoint to a finals.

I guess once a bitch always a bitch...news flash asshole..Duncan hasn't had to deal with the attrition and constant change in teammates that Kobe has...he's basically played with the same core of Manu and TP for at least 10 yrs maybe more? Kobe's had to deal with constant change...so there's a major fucking difference...Duncan has always basically had the same core...which btw are both HOF players.

hard as it may be for your midget ass try to at least be intellectually honest here...

[Koolaid_Man]

again Duncan has played for the same coach his whole career...Kobe's had like 7 or 8 different coaches....I could go on and on why Duncan's had it easy compared to Kobe

[Koolaid_Man]

:lmao ambchang going in on killakobe, who's still making excuses for Kobe.



:lmao

Yes. Missing the PO with 3 HOF teammates and $100,000,000 in salary is the same as missing the playoffs as a rookie, or with shit for a roster. :lmao

Kobe = most overrated player in NBA history.

when did they do what they did to attain HOF status? You guys are truly intellectual light weights and don't even realize it...nothing like being a fool and not being aware I guess...

[Koolaid_Man]

Pau will not get into the HOF...Nash will but not based on what his 40yr old self is doing right now...and at this point Dwight only has potential to get there...so enlighten me again please..you cats don't know basketball...

[DMC]

You guys need to understand that both Kobe and Kobe nut huggers don't consider what will make the Lakers better. They consider what will get Kobe his 6th ring. So, the conversation can never devolve into Kobe being the focal point of the criticism. Regardless what Kobe does, he's never the reason they lose. It's got to be someone else. That mindset is a major difference between a team fan and a player fan, what's best for the player, not for the team.

[DMC]

again Duncan has played for the same coach his whole career...Kobe's had like 7 or 8 different coaches....I could go on and on why Duncan's had it easy compared to Kobe

Tired shtick, but that's how careers go when you don't throw your coach under the Buss.

[ambchang]

So much failure and assumptions in your response:

1. Where did I say that he lacked leadership? OR did I say that if he did it was forgiveable? Also I read the whole quote ....Kobe never asked for more help. I trusted the dumbasses on this forum and ran with that but the full quote did not even say that ...in fact he said no ... here is the full quote Does Bryant believe the Lakers' front office needs to make a move? "No," he said. "Listen, if this is what we're rolling with, I can't make excuses. I have to go out there and do my job."

Here:

Sure their chemistry sucks and you can take Kobe, D'antoni to task for poor leadership ... but
I never said you said it, I said it make it sound like, huge difference. Coupling that with the at least 50% quote sounds like a huge Teflon attempt for Kobe.


2. Please don't misquote me I said when two player are close (Bird and Magic or duncan/Shaq/Kobe) rings should be the decidor. I never said it is flat rings means you are better. But nice try.

So when two players are close, the decider should be the quality of their teams? What the hell does that qualifier has anything to do with anything? Why would you ever use a team qualifier for personal rankings? And no, Duncan/Shaq/Kobe were not close, Duncan and Shaq were clearly a strung above.


3. I dont care who has what on their team ... I have no issue with any star player especially a proven champion ... making a complaint if the end resut is wanting to win. Kobe gripes about management helped spur the Gasol trade.

4. Thanks for spinning another fine example of the hypocrisy on this thread. Shaq misses the playoffs twice and you excuse both. With the he is not in in his prime and or other injury excuses. I am making none for Kobe ... or this version of the Lakers but plenty can make similar BS excuses. Let me ask you this is Kobe, Nash or Pau in their primes? Have the Lakers had injuries. So let's go ahead excuse this one for Kobe ... No. So get out of there with that hypocritical bull-shit. Or how about using the Smush or Kwame excuse for 2005? He MISSED the playoffs period. You have made that case so why does Hakeem. Kareem or Shaq get a pass remember bigs ALSO have more impact on the game ...remember?

Bigs have more impact on the game pre 2002, Stern made sure he can sell his perimeter players with rule changes, and don’t act like you don’t know it.

And no, Shaq was way out of his prime in 08, Kobe’s still in it, or within range of it. This is like saying Hakeem missed the playoffs with the Raptors or Ewing with the Sonics. Any reasonable person would not count those years as a negative to those players hanging on.

I would never count Kobe’s 96 to 99 numbers against him, you will never hear me say “Kobe averaged 7.6 points in one season, and no top 10 player would average 7.6 points a game, because everyone and their nephews know that it’s not anywhere within Kobe’s prime in those years. To top it off, the Lakers’ general suckitude was due to Kobe not being able to get along with Shaq, with all the I will sign with the Clippers bullshit.


5. Please define at LEAST for me ...I never said only 50% ...and the reason I used the last 2 games because they have been two of his least efficient efforts all season and I think that (his performance) is what sparked his comments you guys have taken out of context. Of course he deserves blame for this season ... go back and read what I said earlier his legacy deserves a hit if he misses but it should not be a huge one because how is squeaking in to the playoffs make this season any better? I never once bought in to this team as legit title contenders in fact I have not argued that since we got swept by the Mavs. My respect for Kobe doesnt blind me to the fact he is past his prime and the HOF help he has is not being utilized properly by the coach or Kobe. But even before this season started one of the biggest Laker fans anyone could ever know (me) picked the Lakers to lose in the WCF. So for me failure is not making it to the WCF ANYTHING short of the second round of the palyoffs was a failure based on my assessment of the team's ceiling of the WCF and a success if they made it that far. A first round loss to avoid the didnt miss playoffs stigma does little for me.

Is he really past his prime? Didn’t he just said this is one of his best seasons? Did he miss his prime because his team is sucking, or because he is leading the league in scoring by shooting uncharacteristically well from the field? I think you lost me in there by labelling this is an off-prime year for Kobe.
See link http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207476
And you will view missing the playoffs and not making the WCF as the same kind of failure? Aren’t their degrees of failure? As in getting a 5% on a test is worse than getting a 49% on a test?


6. I never said it was all on Pau, or he is the reason for us losing. I said he still has value and they could addreess to other needs ... please show me where I said it was all on Pau.
And you show me where I said you said the entire fault is on Pau. What I did say is that after talking about how Kobe deserves at least 50% of the blame in two losses out of a so-far very disappointing season, your solution is trading Pau to solve 3 Lakers problem that has nothing to do with Kobe.



Look I know amb you are enjoying the Lakers (and Kobe's struggles) but no need to make-up shit or make assumptions on things I post. I have not played the injury card or the "not in prime" card but if you can play that for duncan losing 1 to 8 or shaq missing the playoffs with a Nash 3 years younger than this one or for Hakeem ... I dont get why you act so obtuse here. Are you arguing Kobe is in his prime? Are you arguing that this version of Nash is better than the one Shaq played with?

A player being and not being in his prime has no bearing? Which planet are you on? Oh, Jordan sucks, look at his Wizard years, he missed the playoffs! Look at Magic in 95 in his comeback, let’s take those 15 games and pick apart his legacy. Being in his prime or not has a huge impact on a player.
And yes, Kobe is still playing in his prime, he is, in his own words, playing the best he has played in a long while, I am not sure how else you can dismiss this as not being his prime, unless you are ready to say that 09 and 10 is either not his prime, or that it was more than a long while.


Thing is you can be a great poster but your hate blinds you here. Of course I have some Kobe bias, to a degree, Im a Laker fan ...but your hate clouds your posting ability mightily. You make some good points but your disdain for Kobe makes you take such wild leaps to where you take something i said and infer all kinds of crap behind it. I think I would enjoy you discussing something non Kobe or Duncan related. Like Maybe Isiah vs. Cp3 vs. stockton. Or GP vs. Kidd

But duncan and Kobe? your posts are shite :lol
I have to disagree with you on this one as well. I have said time and time again how overrated Kobe is, and this season is showing why. He requires an extremely tough to assemble team for him to be successful. His contributions to the 00-02 Laker teams were wildly exaggerated, and his need for dominant frontlines to succeed has been ignored for two long. Without those, he is a highly flawed player who can barely take his team to any kind of success.

Outside of Hakeem, there isn’t one single top 10 player who is even remotely this teammate dependent, and Hakeem was successful with his 86 and mid 90s rosters, two very different types of teams. Not to mention his 94/95 teams were incredibly easier to assemble that those 09./10 Lakers (those Lakers team would not have been possibly assembled if it wasn’t LA or some insane stroke of luck).

[Koolaid_Man]

Tired shtick, but that's how careers go when you don't throw your coach under the Buss.




1st off Hi DMC
2ndly - Blow Me
3rd - It's not about careers but rather markets, SA and LA are no comparisons...Kobe's stats as a "2nd option" in LA are far more impressive than Duncan's a "1st option" in SA...those are facts.
SA ran the Spurs like a mom and pop shop and it worked for them..I know in your quest to prop Duncan up you're prone to ignore the obvious but don't kid yourself on how hard it is to win titles through multiple coaching and teammate changes...

[Koolaid_Man]

hey ambchang got dam homie what's up with writing a fucking novel...your opinion ain't that gotdam important...shit!!!

[Spur_Fanatic]

Kobe says that he will keep overshooting, cause there is always a chance the baskets will go in eventually.

What a hero. What a player.

[KL2]

Man I swear some of you Spur fans are closet Laker fans. Here the Lakers are, 6 games under 0.500 - in other words lottery bound (at the moment but time will tell) - yet at least 80% of all NBA forum threads has something to do directly with the Lakers. This thread is no different which is funny considering the Spurs are perched atop the WC (or damn close to it) or Miami is atop the EC and are defending champs.

Look at game threads. You can just look at the length of it and tell whether the Lakers are losing or about to lose (multiple page threads usually are a tell tell sign). No other non-playoff teams get the attention the Lakers get.

Could it be that Kobe has more rings than Duncan ever will have? Or could it be that he trumps Duncan head to head in RS and playoff series victories? Or is it that the Lakers have 4xs the rangs as the Spurs? Whatever it is, this obsession with the Lakers is not healthy. Some of you need to get laid or get a hobby or something. Spending 10 hours of your waking days talking about the Lakers can't be good. To each his own I guess.

Non Laker fans that hate lines up Dr. Buss' pockets just as much as avid Laker fans. I guess this obsession in a way is kind of good tbh. :lol

[Killakobe81]

LOL Amb,

1. Kobe is in his prime ... Dude wasnt even in his prime in 2010 but whatever. He was good but prime?! :wakeup

2. So we gonna trade Kobe instead with his bloated contract and no trade clause?! How about Dwight are only all-star caliber player under 30? Trading Pau (for me) isnt about blaming Pau it's about making my favorite team better. I would trade Kobe if it helped us win a title but who is gonna take on that contract and offer us assets?

3. So because Kobe says he is playing near his prime ... that means he is? Yet he is an egotistical jerk with poor leadership skills but you taking his word as gospel?! :nope

4. LOL Using the 40 year old Magic and MJ examples .... rings dont' matter and Duncan is above Kobe because I said so ...great arguments :toast

5. I agree Amb you have some good points but you keep qualifying about primes or making injury excuses where you see fit. Im not saying that stuff shouldnt matter in the grand scheme but those are excuses. When Kobe is retired I think the whole picture and story should be factored in missing the playoffs in 2005 etc. But over-reacting to a poor half a season and judging a players career behind it is foolish. And shit, if Kobe is near his prime all these years in doesnt that stregthen his overall career ranking? :wow

6. LOL Cryhavoc's reading comprehension I said repeatedly in this thread injuries and team-mates were no excuse. Show me where I am making an excuse for Kobe. Also weak ass posters always have to dyck ride other posters arguments ...just saying. In fact amb who you slobbin just took me to task for NOT allowing in those BS excuses ... make up your mind fellas am I excusing Kobe or not? :bang

[ambchang]

hey ambchang got dam homie what's up with writing a fucking novel...your opinion ain't that gotdam important...shit!!!

Hey unkool got dam what's with writing pointless thread? Your general pointlessness needs no more confirmation.

[Killakobe81]

Oh my bad I forgot ....according to Amb ... Kobe is near his prime ... so we can trade Kobe for a SG and a SF ...

[anonoftheinternets]

Oh my bad I forgot ....according to Amb ... Kobe is near his prime ... so we can trade Kobe for a SG and a SF ...

lol tosb kobe per killa ...

[Killakobe81]

lol tosb kobe per killa ...

Not saying that, but he is much closer to TOSB than his prime ... Only the most blind Kobe fanbois or Kobe himself would disagree ...

[Koolaid_Man]

Oh my bad I forgot ....according to Amb ... Kobe is near his prime ... so we can trade Kobe for a SG and a SF ...

Kobe is far from perfect but let's be real...if Kobe was in his prime he would have likely dropped 60 on Wade and Lebron...dude was pretty much unstoppable in his prime. Lebron would have fouled out trying to guard him (and perhaps vice versa) but Wade would have gotten torched like it was nobody's business...I will let Shaq answer the question since he played with all 3...



“People ask me all the time: If you had to choose between DWade and LeBron, which would you take? Which one would you make the CEO? It’s really a tough question. LeBron is a better decision maker. DWade will hit more last-second shots. Lots of superstars in their position want and need to take the last shot. LeBron is more of an ‘opportunity’ CEO. He’s not afraid to take the last shot, but he won’t hesitate to pass it to an open Mike Miller either. So where do these two guys measure up against Kobe? Kobe is a scientific dawg. He works out every day, practices every day. Most of the other stars are just dawgs, not scientific dawgs. Me, I’m a freak-of-nature dawg because of my size. LeBron could be a scientific dawg like Kobe, but he’s got a lot going on like I did, so that’s preventing him from being one.” - Shaq



I know we disagree here but I watched these cats closely in their primes and a Prime Kobe would have straight up embarrassed Lebron..Shaq was just trying to be nice about it :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Not saying that, but he is much closer to TOSB than his prime ... Only the most blind Kobe fanbois or Kobe himself would disagree ...

I would agree with that...if he was close to his prime we wouldn't be even having this discussion

[TDMVPDPOY]

kobe was never in his prime

those 2 years after shaq era, was mainly a ball hog volume statpadding meaningless stats...it is what it is

[Juggity]

I know we disagree here but I watched these cats closely in their primes and a Prime Kobe would have straight up missed the playoffs

fify

[DMC]

1st off Hi DMC
2ndly - Blow Me
3rd - It's not about careers but rather markets, SA and LA are no comparisons...Kobe's stats as a "2nd option" in LA are far more impressive than Duncan's a "1st option" in SA...those are facts.
SA ran the Spurs like a mom and pop shop and it worked for them..I know in your quest to prop Duncan up you're prone to ignore the obvious but don't kid yourself on how hard it is to win titles through multiple coaching and teammate changes...



Start thinking about ping pong balls.

[DMC]

I know we disagree here but I watched these cats closely in their primes and a Prime Kobe would have straight up embarrassed Lebron..Shaq was just trying to be nice about it :lol

Only if they were sharing a hotel room.

[DMC]

Funny that you few are the same legriders that said this team was stacked. Kool sucked Howard's dick all Summer. Now you are lottery bound, you all act like it was obvious all along, that you were sold a bum steer.

[ambchang]

Not saying that, but he is much closer to TOSB than his prime ... Only the most blind Kobe fanbois or Kobe himself would disagree ...

Saying a player is not tosb is being a hater? How's the living condition on nebula k-231? Because there is no way you are from this galaxy.

[Koolaid_Man]

Funny that you few are the same legriders that said this team was stacked. Kool sucked Howard's dick all Summer. Now you are lottery bound, you all act like it was obvious all along, that you were sold a bum steer.

hey I didn't suck no dick...but I was sold a bum steer...right up my ass...and that shit don't feel good :lol I had no idea Howard's game was this fucking lame....I mean seriously I think Duncan is a TOSB but tbh he's better than Dwight right now...I mean Shaq couldn't make his freebies but gotdam that nigga was at least dominate to where he'd foul your whole team out or he'd fucking dominate the paint...even with Kobe "not passing" to him...so Howard has no excuses...the reality is Howard is playing to not get hurt in a contract year and it shows...

other thing is Nash is done..deep inside :lol my conscience told me this all along but I was hoping against hope he still had something left...Kobe is covering for Nash and trying to help to much to cover his man and Nash's....that's why it looks as if Kobe has bad defense. :lol Nash and Gasol are both horrible...Mitch over played his hand with the Nash signing...Calderon or even Sessions would look good in this line-up right about now...and Gasol is pure garbage..but tbh it's Kobe's fault that Gasol is still on this team...every time Mitch attempted to trade his ass Kobe would come out in the media and say that Gasol better not get traded...Now Kobe has to live with this particular issue he's caused...his boy his a Pussy Ass Shit Bag

[Latarian Milton]

overtaken by them mavs :lol

[Stalin]

So much failure and assumptions in your response:

1. Where did I say that he lacked leadership? OR did I say that if he did it was forgiveable? Also I read the whole quote ....Kobe never asked for more help. I trusted the dumbasses on this forum and ran with that but the full quote did not even say that ...in fact he said no ... here is the full quote Does Bryant believe the Lakers' front office needs to make a move? "No," he said. "Listen, if this is what we're rolling with, I can't make excuses. I have to go out there and do my job."

2. Please don't misquote me I said when two player are close (Bird and Magic or duncan/Shaq/Kobe) rings should be the decidor. I never said it is flat rings means you are better. But nice try.

3. I dont care who has what on their team ... I have no issue with any star player especially a proven champion ... making a complaint if the end resut is wanting to win. Kobe gripes about management helped spur the Gasol trade.

4. Thanks for spinning another fine example of the hypocrisy on this thread. Shaq misses the playoffs twice and you excuse both. With the he is not in in his prime and or other injury excuses. I am making none for Kobe ... or this version of the Lakers but plenty can make similar BS excuses. Let me ask you this is Kobe, Nash or Pau in their primes? Have the Lakers had injuries. So let's go ahead excuse this one for Kobe ... No. So get out of there with that hypocritical bull-shit. Or how about using the Smush or Kwame excuse for 2005? He MISSED the playoffs period. You have made that case so why does Hakeem. Kareem or Shaq get a pass remember bigs ALSO have more impact on the game ...remember?

5. Please define at LEAST for me ...I never said only 50% ...and the reason I used the last 2 games because they have been two of his least efficient efforts all season and I think that (his performance) is what sparked his comments you guys have taken out of context. Of course he deserves blame for this season ... go back and read what I said earlier his legacy deserves a hit if he misses but it should not be a huge one because how is squeaking in to the playoffs make this season any better? I never once bought in to this team as legit title contenders in fact I have not argued that since we got swept by the Mavs. My respect for Kobe doesnt blind me to the fact he is past his prime and the HOF help he has is not being utilized properly by the coach or Kobe. But even before this season started one of the biggest Laker fans anyone could ever know (me) picked the Lakers to lose in the WCF. So for me failure is not making it to the WCF ANYTHING short of the second round of the palyoffs was a failure based on my assessment of the team's ceiling of the WCF and a success if they made it that far. A first round loss to avoid the didnt miss playoffs stigma does little for me.

6. I never said it was all on Pau, or he is the reason for us losing. I said he still has value and they could addreess to other needs ... please show me where I said it was all on Pau.


Look I know amb you are enjoying the Lakers (and Kobe's struggles) but no need to make-up shit or make assumptions on things I post. I have not played the injury card or the "not in prime" card but if you can play that for duncan losing 1 to 8 or shaq missing the playoffs with a Nash 3 years younger than this one or for Hakeem ... I dont get why you act so obtuse here. Are you arguing Kobe is in his prime? Are you arguing that this version of Nash is better than the one Shaq played with?

Thing is you can be a great poster but your hate blinds you here. Of course I have some Kobe bias, to a degree, Im a Laker fan ...but your hate clouds your posting ability mightily. You make some good points but your disdain for Kobe makes you take such wild leaps to where you take something i said and infer all kinds of crap behind it. I think I would enjoy you discussing something non Kobe or Duncan related. Like Maybe Isiah vs. Cp3 vs. stockton. Or GP vs. Kidd

But duncan and Kobe? your posts are shite :lol




Fascinating essay, but didn't read, if thats not damage control of butthurt lakerfan, I dont know what is, IMO TBH.

[ambchang]

LOL Amb,

1. Kobe is in his prime ... Dude wasnt even in his prime in 2010 but whatever. He was good but prime?! :wakeup
So when was his prime?


2. So we gonna trade Kobe instead with his bloated contract and no trade clause?! How about Dwight are only all-star caliber player under 30? Trading Pau (for me) isnt about blaming Pau it's about making my favorite team better. I would trade Kobe if it helped us win a title but who is gonna take on that contract and offer us assets?
You heard me say that? I heard you say Kobe is 50% to blame for two losses in a disappointing season after Kobe came out and used a passive aggressive way to take the blame for the season, then go on and try to “solve” a problem with a Pau trade. Ie. It’s an excuse to divert the blame from Kobe to Pau.

3. So because Kobe says he is playing near his prime ... that means he is? Yet he is an egotistical jerk with poor leadership skills but you taking his word as gospel?! :nope
If he was an egoistic jerk with poor leadership skills and his team sucked, wouldn’t it be better for him not to say that this is the best he has played in a while? Also, feel free to ignore about the leading the league in scoring (third highest in his career, in per game and in per 36 minutes), and his 2nd best shooting year since his post Shaq days, as well as his 3rd best TS% in his career. Yes, just ignore those.


4. LOL Using the 40 year old Magic and MJ examples .... rings dont' matter and Duncan is above Kobe because I said so ...great arguments :toast
You already forgot all those arguments you and I had over the years, the essays after essays of arguments? No wonder you forgot that Kobe was a coattail rider in the early 00s, and is trying to twist it as him and Shaq having 2nd billing.
And those 40 year old Magic and MJ examples? Those are YOUR examples. You explicitly said missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs, and whether being in his prime or not does not matter. Well, Jordan missed the playoffs with the Wizards, do those count? They do using your logic.


5. I agree Amb you have some good points but you keep qualifying about primes or making injury excuses where you see fit. Im not saying that stuff shouldnt matter in the grand scheme but those are excuses. When Kobe is retired I think the whole picture and story should be factored in missing the playoffs in 2005 etc. But over-reacting to a poor half a season and judging a players career behind it is foolish. And shit, if Kobe is near his prime all these years in doesnt that stregthen his overall career ranking? :wow

Hakeem not playing in games leading to his team missing the playoffs is the same as Kobe playing games, scoring 35+ ppg and missing the playoffs? Shaq sucking and ring chasing while he was averaging 18/8 was the same when he was averaging 30/12? They should count they same, he missed the playoffs when he started sucking. Kareem missing 16 games, directly leading to his team missing the playoffs is the same as Kobe leading the league in scoring with the best big in the league, a top 10 PG (still, maybe top 15), a rejuvenated Ron Artest, along with Antawn Jamison?


6. LOL Cryhavoc's reading comprehension I said repeatedly in this thread injuries and team-mates were no excuse. Show me where I am making an excuse for Kobe. Also weak ass posters always have to dyck ride other posters arguments ...just saying. In fact amb who you slobbin just took me to task for NOT allowing in those BS excuses ... make up your mind fellas am I excusing Kobe or not? :bang
The thing is, Kobe doesn’t have any excuses, and yet you are creating it for him.
Trading Pau will make the Lakers better.
Kobe is at least 50% responsible for the two recent losses (WTH was that supposed to mean anyways?).
I just said you can blame Kobe for poor leadership skills, but he doesn’t actually have poor leadership skills.
It’s OK for Kobe to miss the playoffs, Hakeem, Kareem, Nash and Shaq did it as well. Oh, and Phoenix Shaq is the same as Lakers Shaq. Hakeem and Kareem not playing is the same as Hakeem and Kareem playing.

[ambchang]

Not saying that, but he is much closer to TOSB than his prime ... Only the most blind Kobe fanbois or Kobe himself would disagree ...

So I am now either a Kobe fanboi or Kobe himself? What the hell am I? I thought I was Kobe's Lucifer.

[ambchang]

Kobe is far from perfect but let's be real...if Kobe was in his prime he would have likely dropped 60 on Wade and Lebron...dude was pretty much unstoppable in his prime. Lebron would have fouled out trying to guard him (and perhaps vice versa) but Wade would have gotten torched like it was nobody's business...I will let Shaq answer the question since he played with all 3...

Only he never did in his prime against Wade and Lebron when they were youngins, playing in separate teams, with much worse teams.



I know we disagree here but I watched these cats closely in their primes and a Prime Kobe would have straight up embarrassed Lebron..Shaq was just trying to be nice about it :lol
So Lebron doesn't work out every day and practice every day, preventing him from being a "scientific dawg"? It actually sounds more like a diss from Shaq, essentially saying Kobe is a basketball nerd, and the only reason he is even in the conversation of being compared to Wade, Lebron, and Shaq is because he HAS to practice everyday. Otherwise, he wouldn't be in the conversation.

[ambchang]

I would agree with that...if he was close to his prime we wouldn't be even having this discussion

Well, KK81, KM just disproved you, him being the wildest Kobe fanboi agreed that Kobe is closer to TOSB than his prime.