If Tim Duncan had Kobe's foodstamps, How Many Rings does he get??

[TrainOfThought5]

not less than 8, IMHO. as many as 10. Those champion Celtic and Heat teams were out for blood, tbh.

[LkrFan]

-1/100 thread tbqh fwiw.

[irishock]

-10^10/10

[NRHector]

not less than 8, IMHO. as many as 10. Those champion Celtic and Heat teams were out for blood, tbh.

you're being too modest tbh

[TrainOfThought5]

:lol Kobe losing to Basketball powerhouse Raptors with 2, possibly 3 Hall of famers on team.

Get back to stalking the .500 thread, faggot.

[Jelloisjigglin]

20 rings.

[Reck]

Probably about the same as Kobe has now. Maybe one more.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan with a franchise that was willing to spend money and make aggressive moves would probably have around 6 rings IMO..

[JohnnyMax]

Duncan could've easily had 6 rings with Spurs if not for injuries to him and his teammates

with the Lakers, he would be the new Bill Russel. Easily 10+ rings. Players would be forced to create super teams.

[scanry]

If Duncan had Kobe's food stamps (Shaq), he'd have atleast 7 if not 9 rings. :lol

1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2005
2007

2004*
2006*

On a more serious note, he'd probably have 5 or 6 by now.

[Brunodf]

8-15

[Fabbs]

including the rigged calls as part of the total "Food Stamps" pachage? :lol
8-10 easily.

[Raven]

7-10 tbh

[JamStone]

If Duncan had Shaq from say 1997-2005, they'd probably win like 5-6 titles in that time. Not that I think Shaq and Duncan necessarily would fit that great together, but I don't think any teams would be good enough up front to beat them. And Duncan would have 0 League MVPs and 0 Finals MVPs. And if he were able to win other titles post Shaq, he'd probably still get criticized for not being able to be "the man" on championship teams when he played with Shaq. Then if he played alongside Pau, maybe win a couple more. And people would discredit any Finals MVPs Duncan would get. So maybe end up with 7-8.

[Mugen]

Jam standing by his Mamba through thick and thin.

[Mugen]

Replace Tim with Bryant in San Antonio, and Kobe is probably playing in China today lamenting how he never got past the first round tbh.

[JamStone]

Is that what that was? I was answering pretty sincerely and honestly.

Duncan doesn't have the personality to be ego driven enough to try to be "the man" with Shaq. Plus he's a team player. He's let guys like Manu and Tony be the dominant players on the way to titles. He'd have stepped back the same way, even more so, with the type of dominance Shaq displayed. I don't think there's anyway that Shaq isn't "the man" every single year he'd have played with Duncan. And since I believe that to be the case, I don't see Duncan winning any type of MVP honors. Duncan would play Pippen.

And like I said, Duncan would probably end up with 7-8 rings.

[DPG21920]

Duncan has won 3 out of 4 finals MVP's - it's not like he sat back and let TP and Manu take over...

[Fabbs]

Duncan has won 3 out of 4 finals MVP's - it's not like he sat back and let TP and Manu take over...
:lol have another cup Jammie.

[JamStone]

Do you believe Duncan wins any MVPs, league or Finals, playing next to Shaq?

If you do, more power to you. I don't.

[JamStone]

Duncan has won 3 out of 4 finals MVP's - it's not like he sat back and let TP and Manu take over...

TP and Manu aren't the type of dominant player Shaq was. And he has let TP and Manu take over. TP won one of the Finals MVPs, and there is a strong congregation of Spurs fans who even believe Manu deserved the 2005 Finals MVP over Duncan.

[Killakobe81]

The premise of this thread is beyond shitty

How many titles does Duncan win if he plays with Kobe? Pretty sure he wins a few more as well ..

[Jumi]

Tim gets about 7. To be honest, Kobe's taking a serious blow to his legacy with this crappy season! C'mon son, Steve Nash was fighting for a playoff spot with the Suns last year in the final week of the season. Dwight was an All Star!! If you're the greatest SG after MJ, you should at least be playing .500 basketball! Hell, a high basketball IQ would get you that much with the roster he has! And this cat said he took a "back seat" to Shaq when they three-peated! More like Shaq told him if he didn't pass him the ball he was gonna beat that ass!! Barbeque Chicken!!!

[DPG21920]

TP and Manu aren't the type of dominant player Shaq was. And he has let TP and Manu take over. TP won one of the Finals MVPs, and there is a strong congregation of Spurs fans who even believe Manu deserved the 2005 Finals MVP over Duncan.

You said Tim has let TP and Manu take over based on the assumption he doesn't have the ego to be the man. All excuses aside, I simply pointed out he has 3 out of 4 MVP's in the finals. If you look at the entire playoff run vs just the finals as well, Tim was clearly the man.

[SpursRock20]

Do you believe Duncan wins any MVPs, league or Finals, playing next to Shaq?

If you do, more power to you. I don't.

Depends on who had the better series in the Finals, tbh. To me, it would be a coinflip for one main reason...Shaq has always respected Duncan way more than he has ever respected Kobe. He wouldn't mind sharing the workload with Duncan.

[JamStone]

You said Tim has let TP and Manu take over based on the assumption he doesn't have the ego to be the man. All excuses aside, I simply pointed out he has 3 out of 4 MVP's in the finals. If you look at the entire playoff run vs just the finals as well, Tim was clearly the man.

Fair enough.

My question still remains. If Duncan played with Shaq for 8 seasons, and assuming they win several titles together say 5-6, do you believe Duncan wins any league MVPs or Finals MVPs?

I don't think he takes any. I don't see how Shaq doesn't put up next to 30-12 basically every year and doesn't dominate in the the playoffs as well. And that's probably even more especially because of Duncan. Can't always double team Shaq aggressively and leave Duncan. Shaq probably puts up even bigger monster numbers playing next to Duncan because double teams would have to come from the perimeter, not from Duncan's man. And because Shaq can't play the high post on offense, Duncan become more relegated to a high post, jump shooting big when he's on the court alongside Shaq. That limits his low post touches and shots. And unless you believe Shaq simply magically becomes less interested in getting his bulk share of touches or being a second banana to Duncan, Shaq will pretty much always put up the more dominant numbers between the two.

So the question remains, does Duncan win any MVPs if he had played next to Shaq for an 8 year stretch?

[JamStone]

Depends on who had the better series in the Finals, tbh. To me, it would be a coinflip for one main reason...Shaq has always respected Duncan way more than he has ever respected Kobe. He wouldn't mind sharing the workload with Duncan.

I don't think respect would have much to do with it. Shaq knew he was unstoppable in the post. He's not concede many of touches and shots when he knows he can score at will. Maybe he concedes some rebounds. I don't see him conceding being the primary focus of the offense. To me, Shaq would still always be around 30 PPG while Duncan would probably closer to around 20 PPG, especially because Duncan would have much fewer low post touches and shots playing next to Shaq. What, are they going to have Duncan in the post and put Shaq at the free throw line waiting for a kick out to hit a midrange jumper?

[SpursRock20]

I don't think respect would have much to do with it. Shaq knew he was unstoppable in the post. He's not concede many of touches and shots when he knows he can score at will. Maybe he concedes some rebounds. I don't see him conceding being the primary focus of the offense. To me, Shaq would still always be around 30 PPG while Duncan would probably closer to around 20 PPG, especially because Duncan would have much fewer low post touches and shots playing next to Shaq. What, are they going to have Duncan in the post and put Shaq at the free throw line waiting for a kick out to hit a midrange jumper?

I said a coinflip in the finals, as the series is a much smaller sample size compared to a regular season. Who knows? Maybe teams would double and triple team Shaq forcing him to pass it to the younger Duncan who would have the weight on his shoulders to get it done. But yeah, in the regular season Shaq would get almost all of the accolades. And Duncan wouldn't mind, as long as he's getting those rings, everything's good. They would have co-existed very well.

[DPG21920]

Fair enough.

My question still remains. If Duncan played with Shaq for 8 seasons, and assuming they win several titles together say 5-6, do you believe Duncan wins any league MVPs or Finals MVPs?

I don't think he takes any. I don't see how Shaq doesn't put up next to 30-12 basically every year and doesn't dominate in the the playoffs as well. And that's probably even more especially because of Duncan. Can't always double team Shaq aggressively and leave Duncan. Shaq probably puts up even bigger monster numbers playing next to Duncan because double teams would have to come from the perimeter, not from Duncan's man. And because Shaq can't play the high post on offense, Duncan become more relegated to a high post, jump shooting big when he's on the court alongside Shaq. That limits his low post touches and shots. And unless you believe Shaq simply magically becomes less interested in getting his bulk share of touches or being a second banana to Duncan, Shaq will pretty much always put up the more dominant numbers between the two.

So the question remains, does Duncan win any MVPs if he had played next to Shaq for an 8 year stretch?

I think he at least gets a couple because he is & would have been so dominant defensively. He would have been the anchor defensively on multiple title teams and his offensive numbers would still probably be good enough to warrant the consideration. He probably would have averaged a fair amount of assists too because you know he would have no problem dumping it into Shaq early and often. It's tough, but I think he would probably sneak one or two finals MVP's in there.

[ambchang]

Fair enough.

My question still remains. If Duncan played with Shaq for 8 seasons, and assuming they win several titles together say 5-6, do you believe Duncan wins any league MVPs or Finals MVPs?

I don't think he takes any. I don't see how Shaq doesn't put up next to 30-12 basically every year and doesn't dominate in the the playoffs as well. And that's probably even more especially because of Duncan. Can't always double team Shaq aggressively and leave Duncan. Shaq probably puts up even bigger monster numbers playing next to Duncan because double teams would have to come from the perimeter, not from Duncan's man. And because Shaq can't play the high post on offense, Duncan become more relegated to a high post, jump shooting big when he's on the court alongside Shaq. That limits his low post touches and shots. And unless you believe Shaq simply magically becomes less interested in getting his bulk share of touches or being a second banana to Duncan, Shaq will pretty much always put up the more dominant numbers between the two.

So the question remains, does Duncan win any MVPs if he had played next to Shaq for an 8 year stretch?
Between 97 and 05, the MVP votes Duncan and Shaq got are as follows:
98 – Shaq #4, Duncan #5
99 – Shaq #6, Duncan #3
00 – Shaq #1, Duncan #5
01 – Shaq #2, Duncan #3
02 – Shaq #3, Duncan #1
03 – Shaq #5, Duncan #1
04 – Shaq #6, Duncan #2
05 – Shaq #2, Duncan #4
Assuming that your 5-6 titles estimation was sincere, you are talking about the pair winning about 75% of the available championships together between 98 to 05. Duncan was better in MVP voting in 4 of those 8 years, and it would hard pressed to say that Duncan will not be able to win at least one regular season MVP in those 8 years.
Also, Duncan not being ego-driven doesn’t mean he is not competitive. If the team structure requires Duncan to step up, he will, and I believe Phil Jackson, or any other coach would have ran the offense through both Duncan and Shaq, with Duncan manning the defensive area on those teams.
That said, I don’t think the team would have won that many championships, a big man needs a guard, not another big man. Kobe was playing his second fiddle role very well in the 97 to 03 time frame, unless the Lakers got a decent PG, and a couple of shooters, I don’t see the Duncan Shaq combo going past the Kings and Jazz with regularity.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that with Duncan in the middle, Shaq will probably go company time more in the regular season, further undermining his chances, and boosting Duncan's chances, at the regular season MVP.

As for finals MVP, tough to say, who would have thought Worthy would ever win a finals MVP, or Cedric Maxwell?

[DPG21920]

But back in that time, having two dominant bigs was really, really important. Today things have shifted some, but I refuse to believe a Prime Shaq/Duncan would not win at least 6 titles. Even with similar role players to the Spurs (let alone guys like Horry, Fisher...), they would have been too dominant.

[ambchang]

Nah, the league changed in 02, when they opened up perimeter offense by making things easy for perimeter offensive players like Kobe, AI, Carter and TMac. You can no longer guard a perimeter player like you could with post players, you can't touch them, you can't hold them, and the offense becomes much more one-on-one based since that time.

Sold a lot more jerseys and created a lot of superstars as well. Helped the league revenue-wise.

[JamStone]

I think he at least gets a couple because he is & would have been so dominant defensively. He would have been the anchor defensively on multiple title teams and his offensive numbers would still probably be good enough to warrant the consideration. He probably would have averaged a fair amount of assists too because you know he would have no problem dumping it into Shaq early and often. It's tough, but I think he would probably sneak one or two finals MVP's in there.

Warranting consideration is very different from actually winning. I still think Shaq ends up with considerable more points, even in the playoffs. And I'm sorry, but that would end up mattering in a Finals MVP vote. If Shaq averages 28-30 PPG versus Duncan averaging 20-22 PPG in the Finals, I don't think anchoring the defense would sway the vote the other way.

[JamStone]

Between 97 and 05, the MVP votes Duncan and Shaq got are as follows:
98 – Shaq #4, Duncan #5
99 – Shaq #6, Duncan #3
00 – Shaq #1, Duncan #5
01 – Shaq #2, Duncan #3
02 – Shaq #3, Duncan #1
03 – Shaq #5, Duncan #1
04 – Shaq #6, Duncan #2
05 – Shaq #2, Duncan #4
Assuming that your 5-6 titles estimation was sincere, you are talking about the pair winning about 75% of the available championships together between 98 to 05. Duncan was better in MVP voting in 4 of those 8 years, and it would hard pressed to say that Duncan will not be able to win at least one regular season MVP in those 8 years.
Also, Duncan not being ego-driven doesn’t mean he is not competitive. If the team structure requires Duncan to step up, he will, and I believe Phil Jackson, or any other coach would have ran the offense through both Duncan and Shaq, with Duncan manning the defensive area on those teams.
That said, I don’t think the team would have won that many championships, a big man needs a guard, not another big man. Kobe was playing his second fiddle role very well in the 97 to 03 time frame, unless the Lakers got a decent PG, and a couple of shooters, I don’t see the Duncan Shaq combo going past the Kings and Jazz with regularity.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that with Duncan in the middle, Shaq will probably go company time more in the regular season, further undermining his chances, and boosting Duncan's chances, at the regular season MVP.

As for finals MVP, tough to say, who would have thought Worthy would ever win a finals MVP, or Cedric Maxwell?

MVP ranks during those years are irrelevant in application to this hypothetical scenario. If the two play together, it's obvious that at least one of them will end up sacrificing production, and don't get the same type of MVP consideration. Duncan becomes a more of a jump shooting PF and his FG% probably declines. While Shaq still probably puts up around 30/10. Their respective MVP ranks would not be the same. It's more than a stretch to believe they would, especially when you're talking about two dominant big guys who do similar things on the same team. One will sacrifice their game for the other.

It's possible Duncan could sneak a Finals MVP somewhere, just like Worthy or Maxwell or Tony Parker. But if Shaq is who Shaq was and is putting up 30/10 in the Finals, I think it's unlikely. Perhaps when he's older in the 2003 season and beyond and can't log as many minutes. Maybe that's a chance for Duncan, I guess. But I'm still not convinced.

[ambchang]

So your assumption is that Duncan will sacrifice, while Shaq won't, and I am not quite sure that will be the case. Shaq sacrificed for Kobe from 2002 onwards, and deferred to Wade. Sure his mouth kept yapping, but it's clear he deferred to his perimeter players as long as they publicly admit to the Lakers/Heat being Shaq's team.

Also, it will be stupid for Phil not to at least run the offense through Duncan half the time, especially in the regular season. A high post based offense, taking advantage of Duncan's height, range, and relatively good outside shooting will decrease wear-and-tear on Shaq, while allowing the offensive flow to be more liquid and hard to predict.

[Leetonidas]

People said LeBron wouldn't win an MVP with Bosh/Wade on his team either...

[Koolaid_Man]

not less than 8, IMHO. as many as 10. Those champion Celtic and Heat teams were out for blood, tbh.

If Kobe had Duncan's trampstamp how Popular would he be?

Fact is the most important ring is that dude's tongue ring..it's the single most important reason his phaggot ass couldn't get more...

[Latarian Milton]

spurs whole share of foodstamps were taken by the same bald fag so duncan as well as the rest of his team has already benefited from foodstamps. he might have collected more points but i dont believe he would've won any more rings had he taken the foodstamps himself tbh