Quick Grades: Spurs @ Mavericks - Jan. 25

[timvp]

Tony Parker A
Sidelined early with cut eyelid but returned with a vengeance. Played inspired after return. Another fine performance.

Manu Ginobili C
Limited to only eight minutes. His play was nondescript. Let’s hope he’s healthy.

Kawhi Leonard B
Struggled on two-pointers; O was ragged outside of threes. D was strong; rebounded and played passing lanes.

Danny Green B+
Staunch perimeter D. Made many plays on that end. He shot threes straight but finishes in lane were unsightly.

Tiago Splitter A-
Strong on the boards. Held position well in the paint. Finished fantastically. Lane protection iffy and a bit sloppy.

Boris Diaw B+
Aggression on O up and down – either really aggressive or really passive. Boarded well enough. Passing a plus.

Gary Neal A
Broke his slump in impressive fashion. Filled in beautifully for Parker early. Passing excellent and hit big shots.

DeJuan Blair A+
Wow. Where did that come from? Had first dunk of the season during his explosion. Athleticism much improved.

Nando De Colo C+
Didn’t do much wrong but also didn’t really help. Hit a shot and made a few nice passes – that’s about it.

Matt Bonner C
Good effort on D but not very effective. No rebounding. Only 1-for-8 on threes in last three games.

Stephen Jackson D-
Ugh. Looked like he was about 87 years old. Had nothing on offense. D not much better.

Aron Baynes Inc.
The only thing he did in his debut was record a turnover on an inbounds pass. Hopefully Pop wasn’t watching.

Bud B+
Winning without anyone playing more than 30 minutes? Job well done. Management of fourth was dodgy.

[Brunodf]

Refs f

[chapnis]

No F for Baynes? I guess it is his debut

[HeroSquad]

Gary Neal played much better this game. Barring a trade, he'll likely be running the point come playoffs. Nando was serviceable, but didn't really do anything to gain the confidence of the coaching staff.

[therealtruth]

Didn't Blair have a 20-20 game against the Mavs in his rookie year?

[bigfan]

Wonder why we didnt see any Mills tonight? Maybe tommorrow v. the Suns I guess.

[chapnis]

Hopefully Manu was just rested to allow him to play 20 tomorrow

[ace3g]

Refs f
http://l.yimg.com/iu/api/res/1.2/hYeTRmJ7duCvbtjCJV33bw--/YXBwaWQ9eXZpZGVvO2NoPTM3MTtjcj0xO2N3PTUxMjtkeD0xO2 R5PTE7Zmk9dWxjcm9wO2g9MzcyO3E9NzA7dz01MTI-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/Sports/ap/201301252016729953449-p2.jpeg

[Bruno]

Great win. It's strange that Pop's 1000th win will be a game he didn't coached.

Spurs will need to have a practice/video session on how not to turn over the ball when the other team is doing a full court press. That's the second game in a row where Spurs struggle with that at the end of games.

And I hope Manu is fine.

[Strategic]

Stephen Jackson :pimpslap, as far as Baynes' stat, I'm not sure why his teammates let him get his hands on the ball. Hot potato SOB's. Neal gets an assist with that error. Always great to dog the mavs tbh.

[urunobili]

Manu was itching to get in. Ruff told me that cause he wasn't needed they gave him extra rest

[Samr.]

Refs with a +/- with +22

Easily one of the worst officiated games I've seen in a long time.

You know it's bad when your team wins and you're still pissed about the refs

[Blackjack]

Love Kawhi, have since he was drafted.

Was thinkin to myself tonight, watchin the game: is he the next Tayshaun Prince?

Not comparin their games on a one-to-one basis, but he's got that kind of feel to me, impact.

Definitely got the potential to be more, but a Tayshaun impact wouldn't be bad at all.

[Blackjack]

Oh, and is it the ultimate sign of respect or disrespect that Tony doesn't get to the line more?

Refs either think he's that good at gettin to the rim and finishin with contact that he doesn't need the help or; that little French bastard doesn't even belong there, fuck him.

[freetiago]

4 steals 8 boards in 20 minutes isnt bad for leonard, he was ignored wide open underneath the basket and you could see his frustation
he rushed a few shots he normally doesnt do because of it and most were long 2s

and the interior defense was horrible in the second half
they just let the mavs layup/dunk whatever they wanted
mostly splitter not doing much
but the rest of the team didnt put up any resistance either

[DesertSpur50]

Wait, why did Blair get an A+ even though his defense was bad, only had 4 boards in 19 minutes (well I guess that's decent for Blair) and spoon-fed most, if not all, his shots? I understand this is based on exceptions but even still he shouldn't get an "A+" when Tiago last game got an "A" with a better showing. Anyway, keep up the good work TIMVP and thanks for the grades!

[HI-FI]

Love Kawhi, have since he was drafted.

Was thinkin to myself tonight, watchin the game: is he the next Tayshaun Prince?

Not comparin their games on a one-to-one basis, but he's got that kind of feel to me, impact.

Definitely got the potential to be more, but a Tayshaun impact wouldn't be bad at all.
Love Kawhi as well, given me a shot of adrenaline for the team. I'm a fan of Tayshaun as well, I wouldn't mind him being like that but I think he is capable of much more.

[Darkwaters]

Perhaps the discussions of Blair's demise were premature? That was a very nice game from him. Hopefully this moves the meter on his trade value, because I really hope hes very another uniform after the deadline regardless.

[Blackjack]

Blair's an extremely gifted player. You can't do what he's done in college or in the League with his physical limitations and not be.

He's not the scrub he's been made to be, he's just not the quintessential role-player on a winning team.

He's almost too talented to be a role-player, and not talented and gifted enough to be anything more.

[exstatic]

Refs f

No shit. Salvatore needs to be put out to pasture with the rest of his contemporaries so he can run that shitty steakhouse he owns in Connecticut.

[Brunodf]

the interior defense was horrible in the second half
they just let the mavs layup/dunk whatever they wanted
mostly splitter not doing much
but the rest of the team didnt put up any resistance either

Our guards easily getting beat of the dribble may have something to do with it too.

[Capt Bringdown]

Perhaps the discussions of Blair's demise were premature? That was a very nice game from him. Hopefully this moves the meter on his trade value, because I really hope hes very another uniform after the deadline regardless.

Strange game. It was as if the Mavericks had orders not to guard Blair. Nice to see the rare beast game from him, but we're talking about spoon-fed baskets that you could see a mile away.

[Blackjack]

One can hope he's the future face of the franchise. But I don't want the future face of the Spurs to be a borderline All-Star, which is what seems to be a reasonable expectation for Kawhi.

Once you get used to winning and contendin for championships, you kind of hope for more from the face of the franchise.

[Hoops Czar]

Patty Mills- DNP Coaches decision. Must be some kind of undisclosed injury.

[Mel_13]

Manu Ginobili C
Limited to only eight minutes. His play was nondescript. Let’s hope he’s healthy.

Budenholzer said there weren't any health problems with Ginobili, who didn't play in the second half and was scoreless on 0-of-2 shooting in just 8 minutes. "We just decided to keep him out and keep him healthy," Budenholzer said.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278359

[Blake]

Manu was running pick and roll great.

The in between the legs pass to Blair should give him a B.

All other grades on target, imo

[racm]

Budenholzer said there weren't any health problems with Ginobili, who didn't play in the second half and was scoreless on 0-of-2 shooting in just 8 minutes. "We just decided to keep him out and keep him healthy," Budenholzer said.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278359

I think he'll see more minutes with tomorrow being a SEGABABA

[Pauleta14]

Great win. It's strange that Pop's 1000th win will be a game he didn't coached.


Maybe you 're trolling, but...

If he didn't coached those games, it shouldn't count...?

[Brox6]

is that how the Spurs are? without TD and Pop then Manu playing only 8mins..

or Mavs just sucks big time this season..

[Bruno]

Maybe you 're trolling, but...

If he didn't coached those games, it shouldn't count...?

I'm not trolling. Pop will be credited with the win even if he didn't coached it and that will be his 1000th win (882 in the regular season and 118 in the playoffs). That's just how the NBA counts wins for head coaches.

[99 Problems]

Patty Mills- DNP Coaches decision. Must be some kind of undisclosed injury.


Baynes got Millsy minutes today. :rollinDid I say minutes. :rollin

ESPN Red Mamba interview loved it. Go the Red Mamba. Bonner is a champion.

[Slutter McGee]

Were the refs really that bad? I was drunk for the entire game so I didn't notice.

Slutter McGee

[PingPong]

Baynes got Millsy minutes today. :rollinDid I say minutes. :rollin

ESPN Red Mamba interview loved it. Go the Red Mamba. Bonner is a champion.

Bonner is the Spur's Scalabrine...

:lol

[chapnis]

Except Bonner is actually funny.

[Obstructed_View]

Somebody deserves a bad grade for letting half-rotting-corpse-half-amazing go Air Canada on them.

[elemento]

Funny that most players outside the BIG 3 get trashed after a slump (see Neal, Green, Splitter), but when it comes to Jack he always gets a pass because he will deliver in the playoffs supposedly. Jack has been absolutely atrocious the last games to the point that I think he might have an injury or something. If he plays like that in the playoffs, he will struggle to make a team getting the MIN next season.

[urunobili]

Why I have the sensation that Mills is a better option for backup PG than Nando when he's not :depressed

[dunkman]

Funny that most players outside the BIG 3 get trashed after a slump (see Neal, Green, Splitter), but when it comes to Jack he always gets a pass because he will deliver in the playoffs supposedly. Jack has been absolutely atrocious the last games to the point that I think he might have an injury or something. If he plays like that in the playoffs, he will struggle to make a team getting the MIN next season.

Horry used to coast during the RS, while Jack isn't in the same league as a playoffs player, he delivered many times in the past, including the 2012 playoffs.

[elemento]

Horry used to coast during the RS, while Jack isn't in the same league as a playoffs player, he delivered many times in the past, including the 2012 playoffs.Yeah I know and I don't disagree with you. But nobody can deny that Jack looks terrible and it has been like that for some time now. I wonder if he has a small injury bothering him or something because it doesn't look like the normal Jack, even knowing that he might coast a bit in the RS (not as much as Horry though).

[Pauleta14]

I'm not trolling. Pop will be credited with the win even if he didn't coached it and that will be his 1000th win (882 in the regular season and 118 in the playoffs). That's just how the NBA counts wins for head coaches.

:toast

strange though...

[racm]

Yeah I know and I don't disagree with you. But nobody can deny that Jack looks terrible and it has been like that for some time now. I wonder if he has a small injury bothering him or something because it doesn't look like the normal Jack, even knowing that he might coast a bit in the RS (not as much as Horry though).

He's recovering from a broken pinky and a sprained ankle, no thanks to Mayor Bloomberg.

[cd021]

Refs f

Anyone else pissed that Vince Carter tip counted?

[foodie2]

is that how the Spurs are? without TD and Pop then Manu playing only 8mins..

or Mavs just sucks big time this season..

The Mavs looked pretty sucky to me. Basically it's _irk and a bunch of scrubs/old guys.

[racm]

The Mavs looked pretty sucky to me. Basically it's _irk and a bunch of scrubs/old guys.

When your second option is O.J. Mayo...

[Strategic]

Anyone else pissed that Vince Carter tip counted?

Yep, I remember the day that when you tangled up the net it was a violation. That call was a micronism of the entire game concerning the refs. :wtf

[cd021]

Baynes got Millsy minutes today. :rollinDid I say minutes. :rollin

ESPN Red Mamba interview loved it. Go the Red Mamba. Bonner is a champion.

Kobe Byant-Black Mamba
Brain Scalabrine-White Mamba
Matt Bonner-Red Mamba

[cd021]

Yep, I remember the day that when you tangled up the net it was a violation. That call was a micronism of the entire game concerning the refs. :wtf

Yeah, you can't touch the ball while your hand is in the net. That is 101

[cd021]

The Mavs looked pretty sucky to me. Basically it's _irk and a bunch of scrubs/old guys.

I actually thought their D was good, just we were carving them up.

[Strategic]

He's recovering from a broken pinky and a sprained ankle, no thanks to Mayor Bloomberg.

I agree with you, but Jax launched three point daggers against the Hornicans and looked fine, then he looked lost on the same court. The kind of inconsistent play he is producing is more like a broken hearted teen, or maybe he caught a glimpse of something fine in the crowd?

[TwoHandJam]

Yeah, you can't touch the ball while your hand is in the net. That is 101

Exactly. There was no grey area on that play whatsoever. What about Parker's lack of foul calls getting to the rim? The state of officiating in the league is as bad as it's ever been.

[Darkwaters]

Yeah I know and I don't disagree with you. But nobody can deny that Jack looks terrible and it has been like that for some time now. I wonder if he has a small injury bothering him or something because it doesn't look like the normal Jack, even knowing that he might coast a bit in the RS (not as much as Horry though).

Thats a pretty good point. You'd think that Neal would get a pass from time to time considering he has a decent resume of late game heroics (including some playoff ones, notably against the Grizzlies a couple seasons back). I guess that ring, and a favorable memory of days past, buys Jax a lot of leniency.

[Brazil]

Manu was running pick and roll great.

The in between the legs pass to Blair should give him a B.

All other grades on target, imo

One pass gives a player a B ? :lol

[Blake]

One pass gives a player a B ? :lol

should it be an A?

[ElNono]

Agree with Blake, tbh... didn't want to say it because then I get called a homer :rolleyes

Manu did good in limited minutes. Not great, but he didn't play bad or anything like that. He ran the point well, especially while Tony was down.

C looks like he had a bad night. I didn't think he did, tbh. Looks like he's being penalized for not playing much and that wasn't his call.

[EVAY]

Agree with Blake, tbh... didn't want to say it because then I get called a homer :rolleyes

Manu did good in limited minutes. Not great, but he didn't play bad or anything like that. He ran the point well, especially while Tony was down.

C looks like he had a bad night. I didn't think he did, tbh. Looks like he's being penalized for not playing much and that wasn't his call.

I was about to say the same kind of thing. Manu should have been given an INC., imo, because you can't tell anything in 8 minutes. It wasn't his decision to sit himself for the balance of the game, and it wasn't because of anything he did wrong. I don't think he deserved a C, but then I also thought that Tony deserved an A+.

[cd021]

Thats a pretty good point. You'd think that Neal would get a pass from time to time considering he has a decent resume of late game heroics (including some playoff ones, notably against the Grizzlies a couple seasons back). I guess that ring, and a favorable memory of days past, buys Jax a lot of leniency.

He'll be fine. He seems to get bored from time to time in a supporting role. He still looks more comfortable than RJ was in yearly 3 seasons In S.A. Neal shouldn't get any pass, not only because his late game heroics are greatly exaggerated. But he is the most 1-D player on the Spurs. He has to score, and do it semi-efficiently. He has been wildly sporadic this season in that role.

[Darkwaters]

He'll be fine. He seems to get bored from time to time in a supporting role. He still looks more comfortable than RJ was in yearly 3 seasons In S.A. Neal shouldn't get any pass, not only because his late game heroics are greatly exaggerated. But he is the most 1-D player on the Spurs. He has to score, and do it semi-efficiently. He has been wildly sporadic this season in that role.

I'm not really a Neal appologist, but what you're saying just isn't true. For a guy thats struggled recently, hes definitely got a good resume of late game heroics. See below for two nice examples.

jGnJ0uUgJIw

V4wuQ_gp4yY

I'm just saying. Shit talk him all you want, hes definitely deserved it of late, but the guy has some seriously clutch moments. Against good teams, in the playoffs, and when it matters.

[Brazil]

should it be an A?

Yeah probably. This pass is so sick it should give Manu an automatic spot in the asg.

joke aside I agree with nono and u, Manu was fine in 8 mn

[jestersmash]

Yeah, you can't touch the ball while your hand is in the net. That is 101

I don't see anything about touching the net while tipping in a ball in the official NBA rulebook. According to NBA.com's official policy on basket interference, that Vince Carter tip in was legitimate and not offensive interference, assuming the ball was outside the cylinder.

There's nothing in the rules that prevents you from touching the ball while touching the net in the way Carter did. The rules prevent you from "reaching up through the basket from below and touching the ball," but that's not what Carter did. He simply touched the net on the way up (outside of the rim) and touched the ball while touching the net at the same time. There's no rule saying you can't simultaneously touch the ball and net in this manner.

[cd021]

I don't see anything about touching the net while tipping in a ball in the official NBA rulebook. According to NBA.com's official policy on basket interference, that Vince Carter tip in was legitimate and not offensive interference, assuming the ball was outside the cylinder.

There's nothing in the rules that prevents you from touching the ball while touching the net in the way Carter did. The rules prevent you from "reaching up through the basket from below and touching the ball," but that's not what Carter did. He simply touched the net on the way up (outside of the rim) and touched the ball while touching the net at the same time. There's no rule saying you can't simultaneously touch the ball and net in this manner.

So he can reach through the net as long as he makes contact with the ball outside of the cylinder? They actually stated that specifically?

[cd021]

I'm not really a Neal appologist, but what you're saying just isn't true. For a guy thats struggled recently, hes definitely got a good resume of late game heroics. See below for two nice examples.

jGnJ0uUgJIw

V4wuQ_gp4yY

I'm just saying. Shit talk him all you want, hes definitely deserved it of late, but the guy has some seriously clutch moments. Against good teams, in the playoffs, and when it matters.

I talked about this at length, That Clippers game, Neal had a turnover with the spurs down only 1pts with 7 seconds left. Foye threw a terrible pass that CP3 bobbled into the back court where Neal happened to be and he hit an 3. In OT the spurs where up 3 with less than 15 seconds left and Neal missed both free throws to ice the game The Clippers lipped a 3 at the buzzer.

At Dallas (the comeback game) Neal had got fouled after making a layup in OT and the Spurs were down 1 point Neal missed the free throw and we lost the game by that deposit 100-101.

Neal had a horrid series vs the grizzles, He had -22 for the series He shot 34% FG 26% 3pt (down 14% from the regular season) and we lost the series by a net loss of -19. Neal hit a 3 to take it into the Overtime but Parker won the game in OT. Your putting too much stock in one shot. If You take that shot out of the equation people would be crushing him for that performance.

Both of those examples don't really prove anything of his "clutchness".

Pop usually goes Green over Neal late in games even if Green is struggling. Green still provides more rather it be defense, or rebounding. Neal can shoot, no doubt about it but he's isn't clutch to say the least.

I like neal but I think he really has become delusional about his role on the team. He is 3rd on the team in Per 36 FGA (despite the fact that he is tied for 5th in points per 36 minutes) after Tony, & Tim & ahead of Ginobili, Green, & Splitter who are all more valuable to the team.

[jestersmash]

So he can reach through the net as long as he makes contact with the ball outside of the cylinder? They actually stated that specifically?

Uh, no?

The rules don't specify everything you're allowed to do. The rules ban everything you're not allowed to do, and any extraneous situation that arises that isn't specifically banned within the context of a rule is implied to be legitimate.

This notion of "touching the net = interference" is not correct. Maybe this was the case 10 or 20 years ago (I don't know), but it's certainly not true today under the current rules.

Basket interference occurs if one of the following four things happen:

(a) touching the ball or any part of the basket while the ball is on the rim of the basket

(b) touching the ball when it's within the cylinder extending upwards from the rim (This is the only argument one could make for basket interference on that Carter play. I don't know if the ball was still in the cylinder or not. It looked like it was out of the cylinder from certain perspectives and in the cylinder on others)

(c) reaching up through the basket from below and touching the ball, be it inside or outside the cylinder (Carter did not do this; he simply touched the net while reaching for the ball, but his reaching occurred outside the basket)

(d) pulling down on the rim of the basket so that it contacts the ball before returning to its original position. (When Carter got tangled up with the net on his way up he did not change the position of the rim in any way)

[cd021]

Uh, no?

The rules don't specify everything you're allowed to do. The rules ban everything you're not allowed to do, and any extraneous situation that arises that isn't specifically banned within the context of a rule is implied to be legitimate.

This notion of "touching the net = interference" is not correct. Maybe this was the case 10 or 20 years ago (I don't know), but it's certainly not true today under the current rules.

Basket interference occurs if one of the following four things happen:

(a) touching the ball or any part of the basket while the ball is on the rim of the basket

(b) touching the ball when it's within the cylinder extending upwards from the rim (This is the only argument one could make for basket interference on that Carter play. I don't know if the ball was still in the cylinder or not. It looked like it was out of the cylinder from certain perspectives and in the cylinder on others)

(c) reaching up through the basket from below and touching the ball, be it inside or outside the cylinder (Carter did not do this; he simply touched the net while reaching for the ball, but his reaching occurred outside the basket)

(d) pulling down on the rim of the basket so that it contacts the ball before returning to its original position. (When Carter got tangled up with the net on his way up he did not change the position of the rim in any way)

Interesting...

[TheSkeptic]

I like neal but I think he really has become delusional about his role on the team. He is 3rd on the team in Per 36 FGA (despite the fact that he is tied for 5th in points per 36 minutes) after Tony, & Tim & ahead of Ginobili, Green, & Splitter who are all more valuable to the team.

See this is becoming my position as well. I love that Neal's not afraid to shoot the basketball. I appreciate his quick release and his being...not like Bonner. I do have a problem with his shot selection and the fact that he's 3rd on the team in FGA/36. That's ridiculous. I noticed this as well when I was going through the stats a couple of days ago, and I honestly think that Neal's part of the reason why the Spurs have the 5th best ranked offense in the league instead of the 3rd or 4th.

He shoots too much without making enough shots and with Splitter growing into a viable offensive option and Manu being Manu Ginobili, he should really be no higher than 6th or 7th on the FGA/36 list. The same goes for his usage percentage. In spite of the fact that the stats suggest that he hasn't been efficient or particularly adept at distributing the ball, excluding Baynes, Neal is 4th on the team in usage percentage in spite of his production not matching up to that. Meanwhile Splitter is 9th or so in usage percentage and Kawhi is sitting at around 13th.

I don't know if he's trying too hard for a contract and I do want him to keep shooting, but he has to pick his spots better and Pop needs to put a lid on his minutes if he's not hot. Green's streaky but he's not usually chucking so much as just missing the shots he's been given. Neal is chucking at times when he's out there and that's just not a productive habit.

[jestersmash]

Regarding Neal, I think it's interesting that Popovich has slowly been pulling the reigns in on his "dribble up to the 3 point line in transition and shoot a semi-contested 3 pointer" attempts. He used to take 2 or 3 of those per game freely like he had the ultimate green light. After a timeout and talk with Pop a couple of games ago (I don't remember which one), he only seems to take maybe 1 per game max unless he makes the first one.

The major problem is we're still forcing Neal to play back up point guard when his dribbling skills are atrocious.

[cd021]

See this is becoming my position as well. I love that Neal's not afraid to shoot the basketball. I appreciate his quick release and his being...not like Bonner. I do have a problem with his shot selection and the fact that he's 3rd on the team in FGA/36. That's ridiculous. I noticed this as well when I was going through the stats a couple of days ago, and I honestly think that Neal's part of the reason why the Spurs have the 5th best ranked offense in the league instead of the 3rd or 4th.

He shoots too much without making enough shots and with Splitter growing into a viable offensive option and Manu being Manu Ginobili, he should really be no higher than 6th or 7th on the FGA/36 list. The same goes for his usage percentage. In spite of the fact that the stats suggest that he hasn't been efficient or particularly adept at distributing the ball, excluding Baynes, Neal is 4th on the team in usage percentage in spite of his production not matching up to that. Meanwhile Splitter is 9th or so in usage percentage and Kawhi is sitting at around 13th.

I don't know if he's trying too hard for a contract and I do want him to keep shooting, but he has to pick his spots better and Pop needs to put a lid on his minutes if he's not hot. Green's streaky but he's not usually chucking so much as just missing the shots he's been given. Neal is chucking at times when he's out there and that's just not a productive habit.

I agree with literally everything you said. The thing that worries me, is that he is both unathletic and undersized. He is also rather slow at driving to the rim. Simply put, he really can't finish on a consistent basis inside the paint. That leads to him to try and fill it up from the perimeter. As a point guard he remind me of a running QB. They try to throw/pass and when they can't find their first option the resort to running/shooting. As a shooting guard theres the problem of not having enough minutes with Green logging about 25 mpg ( higher because he had to play SF early in the season) and Manu logging about 23 mpg.

The only option that seems viable, to me at least, is play Manu at point guard with Jackson (or even Diaw) occasionally bringing the ball up the court both are great at finding cutters for easy shots at the rim. Keeping Neal strictly off ball running off screens for open looks from distance would cut his overall attempts and get him back to basics. 15-18 minutes per game is really all you really can justify for Neal unless he's hot (like the 1st Portland game).