Kirby surpasses MJ on assists list

[racm]

30. Mookie Blaylock 5972
31. Sam Cassell 5939
32. Avery Johnson 5846
33. Nick Van Exel 5777
34. Larry Bird 5695
35. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 5660
36. Kobe Bryant 5643
37. Michael Jordan 5633

No wonder he wanted those assists

[dunkman]

MJ didn't pass that much either tbh . . .

[JingleJangleJingle]

glad he got that out of his system...time to chuck.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Now it all makes sense.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

glad he got that out of his system...time to chuck.

:lol

[whitemamba]

Now it all makes sense.

:lol

[spurraider21]

MJ didn't pass that much either tbh . . .
While its true MJ wasn't exactly the most willing passer ever, I think its also important to note how efficient he was. Was better than a career 50% shooter before the Wizards years. Kobe a more pedestrian 45.5% career shooter. So when efficient shooter takes a lot of shots, its much better than inefficient shooter taking a lot of shots.

[whitemamba]

While its true MJ wasn't exactly the most willing passer ever, I think its also important to note how efficient he was. Was better than a career 50% shooter before the Wizards years. Kobe a more pedestrian 45.5% career shooter. So when efficient shooter takes a lot of shots, its much better than inefficient shooter taking a lot of shots.

news flash.. in the NBA its about winning championships.. and kobe got it done 5 fucking times.. spin it how u want, the only team that could of possibly won it without him was the 2000 team.. which was one of his least effective years in the playoffs...
and just to show how retarded you are... jordan was a willing passer, actually he put 6.7 in the playoffs as apposed to 5.4 in his career. so when it counted and it came down to WINNING jordan looked to pass more. to where kobes assist decreased, looking to score him self. and in those championship years he MADE the big shots when needed

[Mal]

:lmao

[spurraider21]

news flash.. in the NBA its about winning championships.. and kobe got it done 5 fucking times.. spin it how u want, the only team that could of possibly won it without him was the 2000 team.. which was one of his least effective years in the playoffs...
and just to show how retarded you are... jordan was a willing passer, actually he put 6.7 in the playoffs as apposed to 5.4 in his career. so when it counted and it came down to WINNING jordan looked to pass more. to where kobes assist decreased, looking to score him self. and in those championship years he MADE the big shots when needed
i never said jordan didn't pass. his numbers speak for themselves. i was responding to a comment that said something along the lines of "Jordan shot the ball a lot too" which he did. in fact, he averaged more shot attempts per game than kobe did, as well as more assists. the point i made was that jordan's high volume of shooting was actually beneficial to his team due to his efficiency, whereas kobe's lack of efficiency is what plagues the lakers. their best wins of the season have come where kobe has had more assists than field goal attempts.

[irishock]

Jordan's a selfish ball hog

[Clipper Nation]

news flash.. in the NBA its about winning championships.. and kobe got it done 5 fucking times..
Sam Jones "got it done" 10 fucking times, so by your logic, he's way better than Food Stamps Bryant :downspin:

[whitemamba]

Sam Jones "got it done" 10 fucking times, so by your logic, he's way better than Food Stamps Bryant :downspin:

thats a solid comparison.. what logic would you have about winning.. o yeah the clippers are historically knows as one of the shittiest teams ever.

[ambchang]

Sam Jones "got it done" 10 fucking times, so by your logic, he's way better than Food Stamps Bryant :downspin:

Reminds me of the good old Air Judden days. Man, miss that guy.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Sam Jones never won any MVP. ClippersNationForlife with the bads.

[whitemamba]

i never said jordan didn't pass. his numbers speak for themselves. i was responding to a comment that said something along the lines of "Jordan shot the ball a lot too" which he did. in fact, he averaged more shot attempts per game than kobe did, as well as more assists. the point i made was that jordan's high volume of shooting was actually beneficial to his team due to his efficiency, whereas kobe's lack of efficiency is what plagues the lakers. their best wins of the season have come where kobe has had more assists than field goal attempts.

lol plagues, sure there are some nights he is not very efficient. but you fail to recognize the rest of the years he and his team succeeded. classic, obviously they cant win every single year. and there is no way you can criticize him now, because at his age, and the amount of basketball played.. olympics, playoffs, regular season, hes played something like 55K minutes of pro ball. hes still playing very high level basketball.

[ambchang]

Lakers won a few times when Kobe was efficient, it was 2000, 2001 and 2002.

[whitemamba]

Lakers won a few times when Kobe was efficient, it was 2000, 2001 and 2002.


Year
Team
Lg
G
Min
Pts
PPG
FGM
FGA
FGP
FTM
FTA
FTP
3PM
3PA
3PP
ORB
DRB
TRB
RPG
AST
APG
STL
BLK
TO





























1999-00
LAL (http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=LAL&lg=N&yr=1999)
NBA (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=1999)
22
857
465
21.1
174
394
.442
95
126
.754
22
64
.344
26
72
98
4.5
97
4.4
32
32
55


2000-01
LAL (http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=LAL&lg=N&yr=2000)
NBA (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=2000)
16
694
471
29.4
168
358
.469
124
151
.821
11
34
.324
29
87
116
7.3
97
6.1
25
12
51


2001-02
LAL (http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=LAL&lg=N&yr=2001)
NBA (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=2001)
19
833
506
26.6
187
431
.434
110
145
.759
22
58
.379
28
83
111
5.8
87
4.6
27
17
54




if your talking from a numbers point of view, i dont see those as being really efficient. 2001 was his best year by far during that run. he had better percentages in everything in 2009 an 2010.. how come he is not efficient then?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Props to the OP for going one post without swallowing Manu's load.

[spurraider21]

lol plagues, sure there are some nights he is not very efficient. but you fail to recognize the rest of the years he and his team succeeded. classic, obviously they cant win every single year. and there is no way you can criticize him now, because at his age, and the amount of basketball played.. olympics, playoffs, regular season, hes played something like 55K minutes of pro ball. hes still playing very high level basketball.
i'm looking at recent seasons bud. high volume shooting is usually not a good thing, especially for guys that aren't shooting a particularly high percentage. lets not forget who won finals MVP from 2000-2002, for good reason too. and 2010 finals mvp award was a joke. kobe shot 40.5% for the whole series while averaging 23 shot attempts per game. his 163 shots were the most taken by any player in that series by a mile. 2nd was pierce with 98 attempts. Pau averaged 18.6 points, 11.6 rebounds, and 2.6 blocks per game for that series. and lets not forget the all important game 7 where kobe shot 6-24... the lakers won that series despite kobe's volume shooting. in that series kobe averaged 3.9 assists and 3.9 turnovers a game. and he won mvp rofl.

i'll give kobe the 09 finals though. he balled there. only shot 43% but he averaged over 7 assists in those finals.

[whitemamba]

tbh, ron artest won game 7

[Spur_Fanatic]

This explains a lot.

[ambchang]

Year
Team
Lg
G
Min
Pts
PPG
FGM
FGA
FGP
FTM
FTA
FTP
3PM
3PA
3PP
ORB
DRB
TRB
RPG
AST
APG
STL
BLK
TO





























1999-00
LAL (http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=LAL&lg=N&yr=1999)
NBA (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=1999)
22
857
465
21.1
174
394
.442
95
126
.754
22
64
.344
26
72
98
4.5
97
4.4
32
32
55


2000-01
LAL (http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=LAL&lg=N&yr=2000)
NBA (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=2000)
16
694
471
29.4
168
358
.469
124
151
.821
11
34
.324
29
87
116
7.3
97
6.1
25
12
51


2001-02
LAL (http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=LAL&lg=N&yr=2001)
NBA (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=2001)
19
833
506
26.6
187
431
.434
110
145
.759
22
58
.379
28
83
111
5.8
87
4.6
27
17
54




if your talking from a numbers point of view, i dont see those as being really efficient. 2001 was his best year by far during that run. he had better percentages in everything in 2009 an 2010.. how come he is not efficient then?

My mistake, Kobe was never efficient while the Lakers won the championship.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[LkrFan]

He'll pass Bird this year too. Not bad for an eat first chucker.

[whitemamba]

My mistake, Kobe was never efficient while the Lakers won the championship.

Thank you for pointing that out.

your an idiot.

[admiralfats]

also worth noting kobe took 130 more games played to pass jordan in assists. obviously both guys are more known for their scoring which, as noted, jordan was better at. again, kobe already 130 more games played than jordan, still 1500 points behind him. even if he averages 30/game all the way there, it will have taken him 180 games which is more than 2 more seasons than jordan played.

of course, steals is where things get really fun. kobe a mere 800 steals behind jordan. :rollin jordan was a terrific defender in the midst of his way more efficient career.

Jordan
year fg% ft% reb ast stl blk TO pts
1986-87 .482 .857 5.2 4.6 2.9 1.5 3.3 37.1
1987-88 .535 .841 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 3.1 35.0
1988-89 .538 .850 8.0 8.0 2.9 0.8 3.6 32.5

[irishock]

Kobe wasn't on par with Shaq's ridiculousness in the Finals because Shaq was guarded by soft Eastern conf. big men. Bryant did a shit load of work during the earlier rounds when Shaq wasn't nearly as dominant against the tougher West teams.

[Seventyniner]

And Kobe is also #1 all time in Kobe assists!

[ambchang]

your an idiot.

My what now?

You mean the idiot to which I own? I do not really own any idiots per se.

Perhaps you meant to say "you're an idiot" to which I find it harsh, and yet quite fair, given that I just agreed with you.

[whitemamba]

My what now?

You mean the idiot to which I own? I do not really own any idiots per se.

Perhaps you meant to say "you're an idiot" to which I find it harsh, and yet quite fair, given that I just agreed with you.

touche idk what to say to that.

[DMC]

On all of MJ's assists, the person he passed to actually scored.

[Spur_Fanatic]

also worth noting kobe took 130 more games played to pass jordan in assists. obviously both guys are more known for their scoring which, as noted, jordan was better at. again, kobe already 130 more games played than jordan, still 1500 points behind him. even if he averages 30/game all the way there, it will have taken him 180 games which is more than 2 more seasons than jordan played.

of course, steals is where things get really fun. kobe a mere 800 steals behind jordan. :rollin jordan was a terrific defender in the midst of his way more efficient career.

Jordan
year fg% ft% reb ast stl blk TO pts
1986-87 .482 .857 5.2 4.6 2.9 1.5 3.3 37.1
1987-88 .535 .841 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 3.1 35.0
1988-89 .538 .850 8.0 8.0 2.9 0.8 3.6 32.5

Cool data. But it's not like anyone was saying something stupid, like Kobe being better than MJ or something.

[DMC]

your an idiot.

It's "you're".

[DMC]

So when Kobe was shooting 42 percent, the opposition held the Lakers to 42 percent shooting.

It doesn't matter how great Kobe shot the ball, it's not uncommon for a good team to shoot in the high 50% range for a game. Trying to get one player to score all the team's points and shoot that percentage with the opposition draped all over him is just asking for a ping pong ball. Expecting all stars to stand around rebounding for him like they are playing HORSE, then get back and have energy on defense so Kobe can chuck another is asking for a LOL.

[admiralfats]

Cool data. But it's not like anyone was saying something stupid, like Kobe being better than MJ or something.

yeah, sorry if overkill, but i just realized/decided recently that not enough actual data is included in most discussions comparing kobe and mj. so i probably got carried away on my mission to keep mj's greatness clear and tangible.

[Deuce Bigalow]

My mistake, Kobe was never efficient while the Lakers won the championship.

Thank you for pointing that out.
Kobe
'00-52 TS%
'01-56 TS%
'02-51 TS%
'09-56 TS%
'10-57 TS%

Duncan
'99-57 TS%
'03-58 TS%
'05-53 TS%
'07-56 TS%

[Deuce Bigalow]

On all of MJ's assists, the person he passed to actually scored.
No shit.

[Clipper Nation]

Damn, I just realized Jordan's stunt double got more assists than the real MJ :lol

http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/mookie-blaylock-totally-looks-like-michael-jordan.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m18kirTPcm1r9w3wwo1_500.jpg

[LkrFan]

On all of MJ's assists, the person he passed to actually scored.

It's not an assist if your teammate doesn't score. I'm not sure where you are going with det revelation. :lol

[LkrFan]

No shit.

He's dropping truth bombs, huh? :rollin

[Jodelo]

Oh look, Lakerfans are back...

[Clipper Nation]

It's not an assist if your teammate doesn't score.

Crazily enough, that's not always true - NBA scorekeepers are notorious for artificially inflating assist counts, tbh...


(http://deadspin.com/5336974/how-an-nba-scorekeeper-cooked-the-books)I think that's what DMC was hinting at...

[StrengthAndHonor]

On all of MJ's assists, the person he passed to actually scored.

WTH? :lol

[DMC]

It's not an assist if your teammate doesn't score. I'm not sure where you are going with det revelation. :lol:p:

[DMC]

Crazily enough, that's not always true - NBA scorekeepers are notorious for artificially inflating assist counts, tbh...


(http://deadspin.com/5336974/how-an-nba-scorekeeper-cooked-the-books)I think that's what DMC was hinting at...
No, I was just trolling for S&G.

[ambchang]

Kobe
'00-52 TS%
'01-56 TS%
'02-51 TS%
'09-56 TS%
'10-57 TS%

Duncan
'99-57 TS%
'03-58 TS%
'05-53 TS%
'07-56 TS%

Another Laker fan not understanding the use of statistics.

TS% strongly favours player who shoot threes and lots of FTs, so comparing SG to C/PF is not a 1 to 1 comparison, like saying Duncan is better than Kobe by looking at blocks and rebounds, or looking strictly at FG%.

A better comparison is to those of other SGs. For example, a low efficiency chucker like Monta Ellis has a career shooting % of 52.8%, with a high of 58% in one season, numbers very similar to Kobe(54/59) or Allen Iverson (52/57). Whereas a player like Manu Ginobili, who is a relatively efficient player had numbers of 59/61, or a Stephen Curry with 58/61, or Reggie Miller with 61/65. You can see, immediately, that Kobe is on the side of inefficient SG/chucker category more than efficient type player.

Duncan, on the other hand, should be compared to other PF/C. Duncan is a 55/58 player, where a player like Shaq, who is extremely efficient, was 59/60 (threw away his Boston numbers). Another extremely efficient player, though in played in a totally different era, is McHale, he had TS% of 60/65, but no one in their right minds will say that Reggie Miller was a slightly more efficient player, or even on the same level, as that of McHale.

On the other hand, an inefficient PF, like Antoine Walker, has numbers in the 48/52 area, or someone who is right around the middle, like Cwebb with numbers of 51/58 (the 58 is more an abnormally, where he usually hovers around 55 or below). Duncan, while not overly efficient like Shaq or McHale, is middle of the road efficient.

The league has made no secret that it wants to move the game from inside to outside, and made the necessary rules to make the league a more perimeter offense friendly league. Heavy use of 3 pters, iffy fouls on the perimeter, and zero hand check rules to encourage penetration all but adds to this. It is no surprise that SG, or even PGs have had higher, or similar TS% than big man.