An Oil Boom Takes a Toll on Health Care

[ElNono]

Uninsured laborers working dangerous jobs have flooded North Dakota health centers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/us/boom-in-north-dakota-weighs-heavily-on-health-care.html

[Wild Cobra]

Wasn't Obamacare suppose to fix all this?

[Wild Cobra]

What did I read now...

Workplace injuries...

Auto accident injuries...

Is it legal to drive in ND without liability insurance?

Why isn't the job related injury being charged to the employer?

[ElNono]

It appears ND was not ready for the big population boom... but you do bring good questions. You should look it up.

[Wild Cobra]

It appears ND was not ready for the big population boom... but you do bring good questions. You should look it up.
I don't care to look it up.

It just frosts me to see an article like that. It looks like it is trying to place blame where it doesn't belong. Just my initial impression. I don't know if that impression is right or wrong, but it appears to be a non-story to me as written.

[ElNono]

The surge in medical visits is real. That you don't care, that's a different story altogether.

[boutons_deux]

the "story" is health providers going into debt for not being paid by the patients and not being reimbursed by the state or fed.

my guess is the that fracking employers are not providing health insurance, and probably paying a lot of these desperate workers in cash, off the books.

A hard core public option for universal health insurance would be the solution, but of course, but the for-profit insurers extorted that off the table in order to allow ACA to exist.

btw, southern Louisiana is full of billboards by personal injury lawyers.

Employers and for-profit insurers are to blame, not the workers.

"In November 2012, Governor Jack Dalrymple (R) announced that North Dakota was not planning a state exchange.1 In the previous year, North Dakota had explored the possibility of a state-based exchange, spurred in part by enacted legislation stating North Dakota’s intent to create a health insurance exchange

The federal government will assume full responsibility for running a health insurance exchange in North Dakota beginning in 2014."

http://healthreform.kff.org/State-Exchange-Profiles/north-dakota

Dakota is a red-state, hasn't voted Dem pres since 1964.

[Wild Cobra]

The surge in medical visits is real. That you don't care, that's a different story altogether.
I'm not saying the surge isn't real. I don't understand the financial crisis, at least by how the article outlines it.

[Wild Cobra]

the "story" is health providers going into debt for not being paid by the patients and not being reimbursed by the state or fed.

ShazBot...

Do you not understand my point?

All the injuries listed in the article were traffic, or work place injuries.

The insured driver is responsible for the traffic injuries.

The employer is responsible for the work place injuries.

Therefore...

I see the story as barking up the wrong tree.

[ElNono]

All the injuries listed in the article were traffic, or work place injuries.

Apparently they're not insured...

swamped by uninsured laborers flocking to dangerous jobs

And the story is about medical centers struggling with the new high demand and large non-payment...

But you said you don't care, so I'm not here to convince you that you should care...

[Wild Cobra]

Apparently they're not insured...

swamped by uninsured laborers flocking to dangerous jobs

And the story is about medical centers struggling with the new high demand and large non-payment...

But you said you don't care, so I'm not here to convince you that you should care...
I think it is pretty much federally universal.

Any injury on the job must be covered by the employer. Am I wrong?

[boutons_deux]

"The insured driver is responsible for the traffic injuries."

If driving is part of your job, esp in the employer's vehicle, the employer covers the worker.

[Wild Cobra]

"The insured driver is responsible for the traffic injuries."

If driving is part of your job, esp in the employer's vehicle, the employer covers the worker.


So do you see my point? Why all these unpaid hospital visits?

[boutons_deux]

So do you see my point? Why all these unpaid hospital visits?

The wild west oil boom employers aren't paying for insurance. Rural, red state ND doesn't have the county/state apparatus to enforce the law.

[Wild Cobra]

The wild west oil boom employers aren't paying for insurance. Rural, red state ND doesn't have the county/state apparatus to enforce the law.
Sure they do. They just have to take it to court.

I see this as nothing but an agenda driven attack article. No merit. Typical for the New York Slimes.

[boutons_deux]

Sure they do. They just have to take it to court.


ND doesn't have a boom in govt lawyers and legal staff to match the fracking boom.

[Wild Cobra]

ND doesn't have a boom in govt lawyers and legal staff to match the fracking boom.
Still, there must be a case if there is any truth to the story.

[Wild Cobra]

Shazbot...

Before responding farther, I suggest you look at how many news agencies outside of the New York Slimes is reporting any similar story.

[boutons_deux]

so there's no problem, in your FUCKING BLIND IDEOLOGY, you believe the right-wing LIE that there is a widespread, dominant LIBERAL BIAS IN THE MEDIA, so Jew/liberal/East Cpst NYTimes is sliming your beloved oil corporations and employers.

search "uninsured workers north dakota oil boom". My version of google brings up TONS of hits from coast to coast, then GFY.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL.... ShazBot...

Yes...

I believe the media is dominantly liberal/progressive.

Still, who else, but the NY Slimes is carrying this story?

[Wild Cobra]

search "uninsured workers north dakota oil boom". My version of google brings up TONS of hits from coast to coast, then GFY.
Does that support the OP?

[Wild Cobra]

LOL...

Daily Yonder

Great Plains Examiner

Topsy

Lecclosette Blogspot

Pal-Item

etc.

etc...

Where is CBS? CNN? NBC? ABC? USA Today? etc. etc. etc...

[Wild Cobra]

Spurstalk is page 3 on Google...

Not much else going one.

The NY Slimes, and several liberal blog type shit before SpursTalk.

Doesn't say much, does it?

[Wild Cobra]

From a little digging around, it looks like the problems are supply of labor vs. jobs available.

Shit... Fast food is paying $20/hr!

Seems to me, it would be better if more states had such a problem.

[Drachen]

Wasn't Obamacare suppose to fix all this?

Uninformed per par.

The main part of the ACA doesn't go into effect until Jan 1 next year.

[Drachen]

The wild west oil boom employers aren't paying for insurance. Rural, red state ND doesn't have the county/state apparatus to enforce the law.

two things BD.
1. I just confirmed that my buddy who works in the oil field down in eagle ford gets health insurance through his employer.
2. He makes far more than enough money that, should they not offer it, he could buy his own personal plan.

[boutons_deux]

two things BD.
1. I just confirmed that my buddy who works in the oil field down in eagle ford gets health insurance through his employer.
2. He makes far more than enough money that, should they not offer it, he could buy his own personal plan.

anecdotes always trump statistics.

[Drachen]

anecdotes always trump statistics.

Fair point BD. Please direct me to the statistics which show that all oil field subcontractors do not offer insurance (or pay so poorly as to make it impossible for a man to buy health insurance on his own).

[TeyshaBlue]

Idiotic blanket statement:

The wild west oil boom employers aren't paying for insurance. Rural, red state ND doesn't have the county/state apparatus to enforce the law.

Destoryed:

two things BD.
1. I just confirmed that my buddy who works in the oil field down in eagle ford gets health insurance through his employer.
2. He makes far more than enough money that, should they not offer it, he could buy his own personal plan.

The Goal Post Move:

anecdotes always trump statistics.

[TeyshaBlue]

This is not unusual in extreme boom cases. Infrastructure always lags a boom environment.

This, apparently, is news to the NYT.

It's been common knowledge in my neck of the woods for bout, oh, 100 years or so.

[Drachen]

LOL...

Daily Yonder

Great Plains Examiner

Topsy

Lecclosette Blogspot

Pal-Item

etc.

etc...

Where is CBS? CNN? NBC? ABC? USA Today? etc. etc. etc...

You are kinda killing your own argument about the political bent of the US media. If they are so far left, why then AREN'T these others carrying this story about evil oil?

[TeyshaBlue]

Fair point BD. Please direct me to the statistics which show that all oil field subcontractors do not offer insurance (or pay so poorly as to make it impossible for a man to buy health insurance on his own).

Just as soon as thinkprogress .borg cooks some up.

[TeyshaBlue]

You are kinda killing your own argument about the political bent of the US media. If they are so far left, why then AREN'T these others carrying this story about evil oil?

Logic sucks, eh WC?

[Drachen]

I like having backup vocals!








I kid, TB. Better to have your support than your opposition.

[boutons_deux]

This is not unusual in extreme boom cases. Infrastructure always lags a boom environment.

This, apparently, is news to the NYT.

It's been common knowledge in my neck of the woods for bout, oh, 100 years or so.

I read where builders in Eagle Ford are having difficulty getting construction loans due to the lenders knowing that after the boom, the bust leaves the lenders with a bunch of foreclosed, underused buildings.

[coyotes_geek]

Fair point BD. Please direct me to the statistics which show that all oil field subcontractors do not offer insurance (or pay so poorly as to make it impossible for a man to buy health insurance on his own).

Why let facts get in the way of a good story? Let's just pretend they all make minimum wage and are being exploited.

[TeyshaBlue]

I read where builders in Eagle Ford are having difficulty getting construction loans due to the lenders knowing that after the boom, the bust leaves the lenders with a bunch of foreclosed, underused buildings.


anecdotes always trump statistics.

Delicious sauce is delicious.

[TeyshaBlue]

I like having backup vocals!







I kid, TB. Better to have your support than your opposition.



Doo-fucking-wop, baby.:lol

[Drachen]

I read where builders in Eagle Ford are having difficulty getting construction loans due to the lenders knowing that after the boom, the bust leaves the lenders with a bunch of foreclosed, underused buildings.

Doesn't this make business sense? Where are you going with this?

[TeyshaBlue]

Doesn't this make business sense? Where are you going with this?

It's actually not true Drach. Loans are quite plentiful in the yet to be tapped Cline Shale find. Builders within a proven reserve like Eagle Ford are not having problems attracting loan traffic.

[Drachen]

It's actually not true Drach. Loans are quite plentiful in the yet to be tapped Cline Shale find. Builders within a proven reserve like Eagle Ford are not having problems attracting loan traffic.

I was running under BDs assumptions that the banks' actuarial departments had determined that loans in a oil boom area are riskier. Even then, there is money to be made and it would stand to reason that they would make the money available, but at a risk premium that satisfies the concerns of the bank.

[TeyshaBlue]

I was running under BDs assumptions .....

Akin to intellectually running with scissors. Probably a real stupid idea.

[johnsmith]

I really enjoyed the first page of this thread when WC and Boutons were going back and forth. That shit is hilarious when those two argue.

[Drachen]

Akin to intellectually running with scissors. Probably a real stupid idea.

Well I had already gone against my stated decision not to engage BD due to its Anti-Icarus effect. Perhaps my running under his assumptions was the after-effect of mildly engaging him.

[coyotes_geek]

I really enjoyed the first page of this thread when WC and Boutons were going back and forth. That shit is hilarious when those two argue.

:tu

[ElNono]

This is not unusual in extreme boom cases. Infrastructure always lags a boom environment.

This, apparently, is news to the NYT.

It's been common knowledge in my neck of the woods for bout, oh, 100 years or so.

I thought the vast increase in debt is what the story is about, and frankly, I think it's alarming.

Extreme (economic) boom normally brings extreme prosperity...

[TeyshaBlue]

I thought the vast increase in debt is what the story is about, and frankly, I think it's alarming.

Extreme (economic) boom normally brings extreme prosperity...

Like I said, there's always a lag. When the local taxes get factored, support services improve. All of this doesn't happen at the same instant.

[ElNono]

Like I said, there's always a lag. When the local taxes get factored, support services improve. All of this doesn't happen at the same instant.

Fair enough






















:lol TB
:lol GFY

[TeyshaBlue]

When oil was found in my home town, population grew from 4,000 to 30,000 in less than one year. People lived in fucking tents and boxes not because they were poor, but because there was nothing else available.

[TeyshaBlue]

Fair enough






















:lol TB
:lol GFY

:lol:toast

[ElNono]

:lol

[boutons_deux]

all oil field subcontractors do not offer insurance

all?

The hospitals, clinics, docs in ND are suffering because at least some fracking boom companies of NO HEALTH INSURANCE.

[Drachen]

all?

The hospitals, clinics, docs in ND are suffering because at least some fracking boom companies of NO HEALTH INSURANCE.

I am not going to make a blanket statement like "they all offer/do not offer health insurance", but is it also possible that those people didn't take the insurance?

[boutons_deux]

I am not going to make a blanket statement like "they all offer/do not offer health insurance", but is it also possible that those people didn't take the insurance?

we don't know. I bet some of these employers are pretty small operators with NO BENEFITS.

[Drachen]

we don't know. I bet some of these employers are pretty small operators with NO BENEFITS.

So then what you are saying is that, at least in this case, it isn't an "evil oil co" thing, it is an "evil small business" thing.

[boutons_deux]

So then what you are saying is that, at least in this case, it isn't an "evil oil co" thing, it is an "evil small business" thing.

slice it any way you want

My assumption is than in a (job) seller's market with often desperate job seekers, the job sellers won't be delivering gold-plated, or any, benefits.

[Drachen]

slice it any way you want

My assumption is than in a (job) seller's market with often desperate job seekers, the job sellers won't be delivering gold-plated, or any, benefits.

well, its a good thing that they are paying so well that employees can still pay for all of their own benefits and come out ahead.

[boutons_deux]

well, its a good thing that they are paying so well that employees can still pay for all of their own benefits and come out ahead.

anecdotal, again.

[TeyshaBlue]

anecdotal, again.
:lmao

[TeyshaBlue]

slice it any way you want

My assumption is than in a (job) seller's market with often desperate job seekers, the job sellers won't be delivering gold-plated, or any, benefits.

An oil boom is a job seekers market. Every fucking time.

[boutons_deux]

An oil boom is a job seekers market. Every fucking time.

so there are more jobs than job seekers? and job seekers can negotiate for a higher salary, bonus?

[Th'Pusher]

so there are more jobs than job seekers? and job seekers can negotiate for a higher salary, bonus?
From everything I've read, roughnecks can make a pretty penny. 6 figures in a lot of cases. So, if their employers are not providing insurance and they can afford it, but are not buying it, these are the freeloaders ACA is supposed to penalize. What I don't get, is that of they are paid well, why are the hospitals not billing and collecting from them directly. Set up a payment plan. Bet these dumb motherfuckers by insurance the second time around.

[TeyshaBlue]

From everything I've read, roughnecks can make a pretty penny. 6 figures in a lot of cases. So, if their employers are not providing insurance and they can afford it, but are not buying it, these are the freeloaders ACA is supposed to penalize. What I don't get, is that of they are paid well, why are the hospitals not billing and collecting from them directly. Set up a payment plan. Bet these dumb motherfuckers by insurance the second time around.
According to the article, the hospitals are hostage to bad address info. Cant collect from someone you cant bill.

[ElNono]

What I don't get, is that of they are paid well, why are the hospitals not billing and collecting from them directly. Set up a payment plan. Bet these dumb motherfuckers by insurance the second time around.

According to the article, these people report false contact information. Once they left the building, good luck finding them. Some of that is apparently being addressed by updating to a new system. But bottom line is that if somebody wants to lie about it, the hospital can't deny care regardless.

EDIT: Teysha beat me to it

[TeyshaBlue]

so there are more jobs than job seekers? and job seekers can negotiate for a higher salary, bonus?

Just think for a second and you can answer your own question. Hint: Why the hell does bumfuck ND suddenly have a huge population of new peeps? Do they just like the scenery or are there suddenly a crap load of good paying jobs?

[boutons_deux]

Just think for a second and you can answer your own question. Hint: Why the hell does bumfuck ND suddenly have a huge population of new peeps? Do they just like the scenery or are there suddenly a crap load of good paying jobs?

answer the question: are there more jobs than job seekers, or vice-versa? Does everybody who goes to ND or Eagle Ford looking for a frack job get hired?

There was an article in the E-N a couple months back where guys were saying the "really good" jobs in Eagle Ford were available to people who knew somebody. And most jobs weren't "really good".

[DMC]

Sounds like an immigration issue to me.

[Th'Pusher]

According to the article, the hospitals are hostage to bad address info. Cant collect from someone you cant bill.
Well fuck me for pulling a WC and commenting before reading the full article.

[Wild Cobra]

Logic sucks, eh WC?
I guess my point of SpurstTalk with the suggested keywords being on page 3 didn't make a point with you? Only blog type material is running with it. The NY Slimes was the only large news to.

[Wild Cobra]

Bad billing addresses sounds like a viable reason. I winder if there is a penalty for false address information too?

[TeyshaBlue]

answer the question: are there more jobs than job seekers, or vice-versa? Does everybody who goes to ND or Eagle Ford looking for a frack job get hired?

There was an article in the E-N a couple months back where guys were saying the "really good" jobs in Eagle Ford were available to people who knew somebody. And most jobs weren't "really good".

Q#1: are there more jobs than job seekers, or vice-versa?
There doesn't appear to be much data that is splitting jobs out by industry for that area of ND that is anything approaching current. So, for question #1, I'll go with experiential data and answer "yes", there are more jobs than seekers. Although, that's fairly irrelevant. The jobs to seeker ratio just has to be better than the surrounding areas to draw workers. It doesn't have to be jobs 2x:seekers 1x.
Q#2: Does everybody who goes to ND or Eagle Ford looking for a frack job get hired? Poorly structured question that is irrelevant. All oil jobs =/= frack jobs. And common sense says, "No. Everybody who goes looking does not get hired." That is true for any job market.

[TeyshaBlue]

binary solution sets are stupid.

[TeyshaBlue]

Well boutons, I've given you a day to respond. Weird. Now answer my question. What are you trying to establish with the questions you asked me?

[boutons_deux]

binary solution sets are stupid.

"Look at the Big Brain on Blue" :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

Well boutons, I've given you a day to respond. Weird. Now answer my question. What are you trying to establish with the questions you asked me?

[boutons_deux]

Q#1: are there more jobs than job seekers, or vice-versa?
There doesn't appear to be much data that is splitting jobs out by industry for that area of ND that is anything approaching current. So, for question #1, I'll go with experiential data and answer "yes", there are more jobs than seekers. Although, that's fairly irrelevant. The jobs to seeker ratio just has to be better than the surrounding areas to draw workers. It doesn't have to be jobs 2x:seekers 1x.
Q#2: Does everybody who goes to ND or Eagle Ford looking for a frack job get hired? Poorly structured question that is irrelevant. All oil jobs =/= frack jobs. And common sense says, "No. Everybody who goes looking does not get hired." That is true for any job market.

Probably all job/economic growth in fracked-up regions, esp desolate regions like Eagle Ford and unpopulated, rural regions, is fracking driven, n'est-ce-pas?

[TeyshaBlue]

Well boutons, I've given you a day to respond. Weird. Now answer my question. What are you trying to establish with the questions you asked me?
.......

[TeyshaBlue]

Probably all job/economic growth in fracked-up regions, esp desolate regions like Eagle Ford and unpopulated, rural regions, is fracking driven, n'est-ce-pas?

No.

[TeyshaBlue]

Well boutons, I've given you a day to respond. Weird. Now answer my question. What are you trying to establish with the questions you asked me?

[TeyshaBlue]

Well boutons, I've given you 2 days to respond. Now answer my question. What are you trying to establish with the questions you asked me?

Coward.

[boutons_deux]

Coward.

kiss my ass, bitch

[TeyshaBlue]

lol coward

[Capt Bringdown]

http://www.truth-out.org/media/k2/items/cache/afaeba5faa192442fed48552e32bef08_L.jpg