Bobby Knight on drafting Michael Jordan

[scanry]

In 1984, Coach Bobby Knight was coming off a gold-medal Olympic run with Michael Jordan. Knight was friends with then Portland Trailblazer GM, Stu Inman, and called to sell him on Jordan as their first pick in the upcoming NBA draft. With Clyde Drexler already on the team, Inman had other plans.

Inman: We need a center.

Bobby Knight: Then draft Jordan, and play him at center.

[timvp]

In 1984, Coach Bobby Knight was coming off a gold-medal Olympic run with Michael Jordan. Knight was friends with then Portland Trailblazer GM, Stu Inman, and called to sell him on Jordan as their first pick in the upcoming NBA draft. With Clyde Drexler already on the team, Inman had other plans.

Inman: We need a center.

Bobby Knight: Then draft Jordan, and play him at center.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif

[DMC]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif

Dude are all them rich white boys related? They all look like the same person.

oh and LOL Tlong

[whitemamba]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif



:lmao

[lefty]

Lmao Tlong

[LakerHater]

That black guy is lovin it!


.... the only one in the Gif!

[LkrFan]

tl:lolng

[whitemamba]

Lmao Tlong

[ColinB]

So many great things going on in that gif.

[SpursIndonesia]

Oops, sorry, can you guys give me a clue regarding the context of that gif ? Totally out of whack here. :D

[Latarian Milton]

drafting oden instead of durant in 07 ain't the worst mistake they've made in their history imho, almost forgot they could've picked jordan in 84

[Ashy Larry]

damn, when did Justin Beiber go to Auburn ....... dude in the front row with the double middle fingers

[baseline bum]

Meanwhile in bizarro world the Blazers have one of the richest championship pedigrees in NBA history

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_zmIZxs0kRs/UBhF5JiNInI/AAAAAAAAAXo/NMwrAICv2Eo/s1600/Jordan-Blazers.jpg

They're also the defending champs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Shorty333/Switches/KevinDurantSWITCH.png

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif

So awesome

[BUMP]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif

:lmao

wtf was that thing that flew in from the right?

[baseline bum]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif

OK, Saturday was certainly a crazy day of basketball. Two top-five teams fell, NC State sent a message, La Salle made moves, Wisconsin won on a last-second shot -- we'll get to all of that. What was everyone talking about at the end of the day? The GIF above, of course.

It's of Ole Miss guard Marshall Henderson taunting the Auburn student section, shortly after hitting two game-winning free throws in the final seconds. Watch it about 30 times, then you can truly dive into the analysis. Here are several observations, cycling through all the MVPs of the GIF:


Obviously, we kick things off with the older gentleman standing up in defiance right in front of Henderson. Not sure what he said to Henderson, but that guy wasn't having anymore of the tomfoolery.
The guy in the white polo is big-time, just smiling the entire time. He loves it.
Jerry Garcia-looking guy on press row. He's clapping, smiling, really enjoying the scene.
The crew of double-middle finger guys. They're forever best friends.
The guy who rips his hat off. He was so heated he just couldn't take it anymore.
Now we get to the sleepers: To kick things off, check out my man next to Auburn pajamas girl. He's got the creepy sideways grin, like he digs Marshall Henderson's attitude, but can't have his friends find out.
Speaking of Auburn pajamas girl, she looks out of place. And is also terrified by the flying object to her left.
What is that flying object? No one really knows. Could be a Fathead, could be a cardboard cutout, could be an umbrella. But the blonde girl reacts like it's a head. A real one.
White hat fellow. Waving his hands, yelling "Come on, come on, come on!" to Henderson. His flailing hands and sideways shuffle steals the show for a bit.
The guy right in the middle who emphatically sticks a middle finger at Henderson -- and then tears it right back down. Everything he did was 100 percent.
The curly-haired kid in the orange shirt. He gives the fingers, claps two times (as if to get loose) -- and then goes back with the fingers.
Kid in the gray hoodie to the left. It kind of looks like he sneezes as the GIF starts -- but bounces back extraordinarily quickly to join in the ballyhoo.
What about the girl in the upper right corner? She yells some profanity, and then goes tumbling forward, either getting pushed or falling from the momentum of her yelling.
And yes, the older, older gentleman in the front row just seems dismayed by the entire scene. And probably this analysis of it.

[SpursIndonesia]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif

OK, Saturday was certainly a crazy day of basketball. Two top-five teams fell, NC State sent a message, La Salle made moves, Wisconsin won on a last-second shot -- we'll get to all of that. What was everyone talking about at the end of the day? The GIF above, of course.

It's of Ole Miss guard Marshall Henderson taunting the Auburn student section, shortly after hitting two game-winning free throws in the final seconds. Watch it about 30 times, then you can truly dive into the analysis. Here are several observations, cycling through all the MVPs of the GIF:


Obviously, we kick things off with the older gentleman standing up in defiance right in front of Henderson. Not sure what he said to Henderson, but that guy wasn't having anymore of the tomfoolery.
The guy in the white polo is big-time, just smiling the entire time. He loves it.
Jerry Garcia-looking guy on press row. He's clapping, smiling, really enjoying the scene.
The crew of double-middle finger guys. They're forever best friends.
The guy who rips his hat off. He was so heated he just couldn't take it anymore.
Now we get to the sleepers: To kick things off, check out my man next to Auburn pajamas girl. He's got the creepy sideways grin, like he digs Marshall Henderson's attitude, but can't have his friends find out.
Speaking of Auburn pajamas girl, she looks out of place. And is also terrified by the flying object to her left.
What is that flying object? No one really knows. Could be a Fathead, could be a cardboard cutout, could be an umbrella. But the blonde girl reacts like it's a head. A real one.
White hat fellow. Waving his hands, yelling "Come on, come on, come on!" to Henderson. His flailing hands and sideways shuffle steals the show for a bit.
The guy right in the middle who emphatically sticks a middle finger at Henderson -- and then tears it right back down. Everything he did was 100 percent.
The curly-haired kid in the orange shirt. He gives the fingers, claps two times (as if to get loose) -- and then goes back with the fingers.
Kid in the gray hoodie to the left. It kind of looks like he sneezes as the GIF starts -- but bounces back extraordinarily quickly to join in the ballyhoo.
What about the girl in the upper right corner? She yells some profanity, and then goes tumbling forward, either getting pushed or falling from the momentum of her yelling.
And yes, the older, older gentleman in the front row just seems dismayed by the entire scene. And probably this analysis of it.


Thx for the info, though i still don't really get it, the connection with Portland TBlazers team. Is Auburn Univ in Oregon state ? :)

[Killakobe81]

Drafting need over talent is usually a mistake. Injuries can always derail best laid plans. Get the best player available, develop them and trade them for what you need. Unless you are one rookie away from a title ...but even then that is dumb look at what the Pistons did passing on Melo, Bosh and Wade ...

I know everyone saw some type of David robinson 2.0 in Oden but I never saw it at least not in college. Maybe if I feel in love with his you tube footage I would of thought they made the right choice. But I saw both Durant (a bunch cuz I livein in DFW) and Oden (big 10 games are featured on ABC and ESPN) and Durant just seemed like the far better player in college and projected better to the NBA.
SImmons may be a hack at times, but he captured my sentiments exactly in his draft preview. Durant has a star quality. Funny thing is ESPN the Mag in their NEXT issue (that draft year) focused on Oden's personality etc. but ignored his labored gait, and his inury history. Although impressive in size and athleticism ...Oden lacked the fluidity and grace of Robinson or a young Shaq ... I just never saw that type of game offensively. He was more like Alonzo was at G-town. An elite defender ... but not much of an offensive threat. Maybe Oden, if healthy would of developed the touch that Zo did from mid -range in the pros ...but I doubt it. I just never bought the hype ...

LOL Portland ...

[Killakobe81]

As for Drexler and MJ to me it was not so much choosing keeping clyde over MJ draft Bowie. IMHO Blazers could of dealt Kiki Vandeweghe and moved MJ to SF ... until they sorted things out. Again I saw BOwie play in college ... he was more of an athlete (grace) than ODen but his injury history should of scared them in a loaded draft. He couldnt stay healthy in the SEC (not a huge bbal power at the time) how was he gonna hold up with a loaded big man NBA?

[Captivus]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18cx5x2192zyqgif/original.gif




Obviously, we kick things off with the older gentleman standing up in defiance right in front of Henderson. Not sure what he said to Henderson, but that guy wasn't having anymore of the tomfoolery.



Could it be something like: What a jackass!!

[DMC]

Anyhow, everyone knows Phil is the reason the Bulls were successful.

[Banzai]

http://youtu.be/zAruOdZo0oE for those who want to watch as it happened.

[admiralfats]

is this from "Tip Off"? Pretty cool book about the 84 draft. Apparently Knight hated barkley during the tryouts for the olympics, but wouldn't boot him off the team because he didn't think he could beat USSR without barkley. then, when the ussr boycotted the olympics, he cut barkley.

but knight loved jordan. supposedly after a really bad game, jordan was crying in the locker room at how badly he performed. knight might've chewed him out for it, too, saying he needed to be the leader.

really interesting book. barkley also talks about how he just went out there trying to dunk on everyone and use the olympic tryouts as a way to boost his draft stock. that's the way i remember it anyway

[ambchang]

It works in retrospect, but at the time, medicine wasn't close to what it is today. Sure, Blazers should have done their homework, and that is all on them, but Bowie was as close to can't miss back then as anyone.

Jordan was very much a wild card, and Dean Smith's system kept Jordan's skills in relative wraps. Also, Jordan didn't have great range back then, and building a team around a SG never led to a championship up to that point. It was a big man's game, and you build teams around centers.

That said, even if Bowie was healthy his entire career, he would not be anywhere close to Jordan or Hakeem was, but he potentially could be a 20/12/3 guy, or at least a Brad Daugherty guy, not outstanding, but good enough.

[Killakobe81]

It works in retrospect, but at the time, medicine wasn't close to what it is today. Sure, Blazers should have done their homework, and that is all on them, but Bowie was as close to can't miss back then as anyone.

Jordan was very much a wild card, and Dean Smith's system kept Jordan's skills in relative wraps. Also, Jordan didn't have great range back then, and building a team around a SG never led to a championship up to that point. It was a big man's game, and you build teams around centers.

That said, even if Bowie was healthy his entire career, he would not be anywhere close to Jordan or Hakeem was, but he potentially could be a 20/12/3 guy, or at least a Brad Daugherty guy, not outstanding, but good enough.

Like I said ... I think sam was a true, graceful athlete when healthy. But as much as dean smith kept MJ under wraps he was still POTY in one of the better conferences in all of MAjor CBB. Sure NO ONE not even MJ knew he would be GOAT but if you were gonna bet on someone why not on the best player in college ball in one of the strongest confernces?!

Funny thing is I think Bowie and MJ got hurt their rookie years, or close to it (IIRC) ...

My guess is like most you feel a buig man is more valuable and traditionally that has been correct. My point is when a player is special that should trump size and Portland is not the only ones that have done this OLowokandi, Benoit Benjamin, Olden Polynice were all chosen or traded for special players by franchises chasing big men.

[Seventyniner]

Like I said ... I think sam was a true, graceful athlete when healthy. But as much as dean smith kept MJ under wraps he was still POTY in one of the better conferences in all of MAjor CBB. Sure NO ONE not even MJ knew he would be GOAT but if you were gonna bet on someone why not on the best player in college ball in one of the strongest confernces?!

Funny thing is I think Bowie and MJ got hurt their rookie years, or close to it (IIRC) ...

My guess is like most you feel a buig man is more valuable and traditionally that has been correct. My point is when a player is special that should trump size and Portland is not the only ones that have done this OLowokandi, Benoit Benjamin, Olden Polynice were all chosen or traded for special players by franchises chasing big men.

DeJuan Blair says hi.

[Killakobe81]

DeJuan Blair says hi.

Blair was very good but he was not MJ or Durant as POTY ... not special imho. But Spurs were wise to spend a 2nd rounder for the same reasons ... plus dude has knee issues I dont see how he applies ...

[Seventyniner]

Blair was very good but he was not MJ or Durant as POTY ... not special imho. But Spurs were wise to spend a 2nd rounder for the same reasons ... plus dude has knee issues I dont see how he applies ...

Not saying Blair = MJ or whatever, but that he should've gone higher than 37th for the same reason MJ should've gone 2nd.

[ambchang]

Well, point is that MJ wasn't ridiculously special back then, sure he was good, but he wasn't goat special. If he was, he would have been taken #1 by Houston. If you can find scouting reports on that guy, he had quite a few flaws in his game. People were still using tape for crying out loud. They do not have the access of information that we do. Honestly, we were transported back in time to the 80s along with our technology, we would have been super scouts, because we can break down a player's strengths in weaknesses in relative ease.

The data that we can easily crunch through now with simple tools like excel and access would have taken about 200 interns a thousand years to crunch through with their slide rulers and calculators.

[scanry]

Tip Off - How the 1984 NBA Draft Changed Basketball Forever by Filip Bondy is a great read. Great Insight on how well respected Dean Smith was back in the days.

[scanry]

Well, point is that MJ wasn't ridiculously special back then, sure he was good, but he wasn't goat special. If he was, he would have been taken #1 by Houston. If you can find scouting reports on that guy, he had quite a few flaws in his game. People were still using tape for crying out loud. They do not have the access of information that we do. Honestly, we were transported back in time to the 80s along with our technology, we would have been super scouts, because we can break down a player's strengths in weaknesses in relative ease.

The data that we can easily crunch through now with simple tools like excel and access would have taken about 200 interns a thousand years to crunch through with their slide rulers and calculators.

The draft was big man dominated back in those days. Houston would've taken Jordan had Portland won the lottery.

[Killakobe81]

Well, point is that MJ wasn't ridiculously special back then, sure he was good, but he wasn't goat special. If he was, he would have been taken #1 by Houston. If you can find scouting reports on that guy, he had quite a few flaws in his game. People were still using tape for crying out loud. They do not have the access of information that we do. Honestly, we were transported back in time to the 80s along with our technology, we would have been super scouts, because we can break down a player's strengths in weaknesses in relative ease.

The data that we can easily crunch through now with simple tools like excel and access would have taken about 200 interns a thousand years to crunch through with their slide rulers and calculators.

Go back to the Op post ...Bobby Knight tried to convince Portland. Bobby knight though a great coach but was no NBA scout. Point being if choice is a potentially speacial poty or a big with injury history I take the great small. Name me all the special bigs that led team to titles almost all sans Duncan and Hakeem had a special wing to complement them. (Modern era) look at all the bust bigs the past 30 years plus others like Malone Ewing and Robinson that were not able to rang as number one option.

[ambchang]

Like I said. Portland made a mistake, but it was no where close to how modern revised i story made it out to be. Newspaper sells stories, and how Jordan was shafted for a bust is a great story that writes itself. It's part lazy journalism, and part salesmanship.

You are right, knight wasn't a scout, therefore Portland didn't listen. Knight had the benefit of spending an entire summer with Jordan was something special, the rest of the league didn't and went with conventional wisdom, which was drafting a big.

Were there many busts bigs? Of course, because teams are still drafting size. Ironically, one of the biggest draft bust was drafted by Jordan. But having a franchise big and putting complimentary wings for a championship is much easier than getting a franchise wing and getting complimentary bigs around them. Outside of Jordan, there hasn't been one wing who led the team to a championship w/o an absolutely dominant frontline, one that is clearly better than the best of the league. Otoh, Malone, bird, Hakeem, and Duncan all led teams with average backcourts to championships.

[Killakobe81]

Like I said. Portland made a mistake, but it was no where close to how modern revised i story made it out to be. Newspaper sells stories, and how Jordan was shafted for a bust is a great story that writes itself. It's part lazy journalism, and part salesmanship.

You are right, knight wasn't a scout, therefore Portland didn't listen. Knight had the benefit of spending an entire summer with Jordan was something special, the rest of the league didn't and went with conventional wisdom, which was drafting a big.

Were there many busts bigs? Of course, because teams are still drafting size. Ironically, one of the biggest draft bust was drafted by Jordan. But having a franchise big and putting complimentary wings for a championship is much easier than getting a franchise wing and getting complimentary bigs around them. Outside of Jordan, there hasn't been one wing who led the team to a championship w/o an absolutely dominant frontline, one that is clearly better than the best of the league. Otoh, Malone, bird, Hakeem, and Duncan all led teams with average backcourts to championships.

Some good points but Bird is essentially a wing a point forward so to speak who was actually (in photos) smaller than Magic. Malone had Mo cheeks and Andrew Toney so I would say to call that backcourt average is suspect. Hakeem had Cassell, elie, Kenny smith Maxwell and Drexler (repeat). Only drexler was a star but I would say teh rest were above average starters and really great at their defined roles. I get your point that teh media loves to bash Bowie but my point still stands on Sam's injury history. If I remember correctly Sam had a great SEC tournament that year which I think inflated his stock. HE flashed amazing potential but what good does that do on a suit on the sideline? I realize teams historically draft big ... but reaching for an oft-injured big was the mistake ... not going big ...even BEFORE hakeem rang no one bitched about taking Hakeem over MJ because the dream wasnt inury prone and improved every year in college and the pros ... Sam was a reach based on height. MJ wasnt the only player they passed to get Bowie only the best and most famous.

Barkley, Stockton were all in that very same draft. Other solid players include Alvin robertson, Otis thorpe and Kevin Willis ...

SO in a draft with 4 first ballot HOF'ers and players that made a few ASG appearances they took Bowie with the 2nd choice ...

Last how else would it be considered a mistake amb, except using historical context? Some folks (Im guessing ACC fans, Knight myself and Im sure some others thought it was a mistake in 1984) not only me ...thought it was a mistake in 1984. I knew far little about hoops. I only watched/noticed MJ/UNC because JAmes worthy had played there and he was talking to Chick Hearn in a interview about how good MJ would be (he went back to play with him at NC in the summer after he left) and even he underestimated MJ ...

Also my Mom used to buy me Street & smiths college magazine and they also thought MJ was the 2nd best player coming out that year. Im not saying I knew MJ would be GOAT i did not know for sure BOwie would bust. Just saying it was a poor decision then and it's silly that GM's keep making. Almost every big you pointed to as winning had great college careers (sans Moses) and limited no injury history. Even without stats and moderne medicine Blazers should of seen the red flags that a kid like me could see ... of course I would rather have a dominant big. But on every level of ball a special wing is better than a mediocre to decent big.

[scanry]

Houston were really lucky to have rang twice in the 1990's otherwise they would have been in the same boat as Portland are for life.

As a big man, Hakeem was such a finesse player though. It's still a mystery how such a talented player couldn't beat teams like Portland, Phoenix and to an extent, the Lakers in the Western Conference.

[DMC]

Houston were really lucky to have rang twice in the 1990's otherwise they would have been in the same boat as Portland are for life.

As a big man, Hakeem was such a finesse player though. It's still a mystery how such a talented player couldn't beat teams like Portland, Phoenix and to an extent, the Lakers in the Western Conference.

No mystery. Players don't beat teams, other teams do.

[scanry]

No mystery. Players don't beat teams, other teams do.

Stephon Marbury on MJ "How can one person have so much game?"

No really, that Houston squad in the mid 80's had a great team.

[ambchang]

lSome good points but Bird is essentially a wing a point forward so to speak who was actually (in photos) smaller than Magic. Malone had Mo cheeks and Andrew Toney so I would say to call that backcourt average is suspect. Hakeem had Cassell, elie, Kenny smith Maxwell and Drexler (repeat). Only drexler was a star but I would say teh rest were above average starters and really great at their defined roles. I get your point that teh media loves to bash Bowie but my point still stands on Sam's injury history. If I remember correctly Sam had a great SEC tournament that year which I think inflated his stock. HE flashed amazing potential but what good does that do on a suit on the sideline? I realize teams historically draft big ... but reaching for an oft-injured big was the mistake ... not going big ...even BEFORE hakeem rang no one bitched about taking Hakeem over MJ because the dream wasnt inury prone and improved every year in college and the pros ... Sam was a reach based on height. MJ wasnt the only player they passed to get Bowie only the best and most famous.

Barkley, Stockton were all in that very same draft. Other solid players include Alvin robertson, Otis thorpe and Kevin Willis ...

SO in a draft with 4 first ballot HOF'ers and players that made a few ASG appearances they took Bowie with the 2nd choice ...

Last how else would it be considered a mistake amb, except using historical context? Some folks (Im guessing ACC fans, Knight myself and Im sure some others thought it was a mistake in 1984) not only me ...thought it was a mistake in 1984. I knew far little about hoops. I only watched/noticed MJ/UNC because JAmes worthy had played there and he was talking to Chick Hearn in a interview about how good MJ would be (he went back to play with him at NC in the summer after he left) and even he underestimated MJ ...

Also my Mom used to buy me Street & smiths college magazine and they also thought MJ was the 2nd best player coming out that year. Im not saying I knew MJ would be GOAT i did not know for sure BOwie would bust. Just saying it was a poor decision then and it's silly that GM's keep making. Almost every big you pointed to as winning had great college careers (sans Moses) and limited no injury history. Even without stats and moderne medicine Blazers should of seen the red flags that a kid like me could see ... of course I would rather have a dominant big. But on every level of ball a special wing is better than a mediocre to decent big.[/QUOTE]
I think we agree more than disagree on this. Portland, no question, made a mistake, even without the benefit of hindsight. Your point, as far as I can get it, is that the magnitude of that mistake is as big as people make it out to be in recent times, while my stance is that it was a mistake, but it was a mistake that many teams have made, and is not as bad as people drafting Kwame Brown and Olowakandi #1 in drafts, and made by Portland again with the drafting of Oden over Durant.

Bowie was a very skilled big man, one who can defend and pass like a young Bill Walton, he wasn’t just some tall guy who happened to play basketball.

[tlongII]

Non-issue.

[Ashy Larry]

Non-issue.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


Sam Bowie reveals that he lied to Portland about feeling leg pain before the infamous 1984 NBA draft

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/sam-bowie-reveals-lied-portland-feeling-leg-pain-212349458--nba.html


http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/jgi2p.i_PlFLvvLJ11Yabw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnbaexperts/Bowiemid121112.jpg

[baseline bum]

Like I said. Portland made a mistake, but it was no where close to how modern revised i story made it out to be. Newspaper sells stories, and how Jordan was shafted for a bust is a great story that writes itself. It's part lazy journalism, and part salesmanship.

You are right, knight wasn't a scout, therefore Portland didn't listen. Knight had the benefit of spending an entire summer with Jordan was something special, the rest of the league didn't and went with conventional wisdom, which was drafting a big.

Were there many busts bigs? Of course, because teams are still drafting size. Ironically, one of the biggest draft bust was drafted by Jordan. But having a franchise big and putting complimentary wings for a championship is much easier than getting a franchise wing and getting complimentary bigs around them. Outside of Jordan, there hasn't been one wing who led the team to a championship w/o an absolutely dominant frontline, one that is clearly better than the best of the league. Otoh, Malone, bird, Hakeem, and Duncan all led teams with average backcourts to championships.

Are you calling Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks an average backcourt? Toney was a bad man before his injury problems in the mid 80s, and then Dr J at the three? Moses had some incredible perimeter help when he rang.

[ambchang]

Yeah, maybe average was a mistake, but not far and away the best backcourt in the league is probably the better term in case of Malone.

[Killakobe81]

lSome good points but Bird is essentially a wing a point forward so to speak who was actually (in photos) smaller than Magic. Malone had Mo cheeks and Andrew Toney so I would say to call that backcourt average is suspect. Hakeem had Cassell, elie, Kenny smith Maxwell and Drexler (repeat). Only drexler was a star but I would say teh rest were above average starters and really great at their defined roles. I get your point that teh media loves to bash Bowie but my point still stands on Sam's injury history. If I remember correctly Sam had a great SEC tournament that year which I think inflated his stock. HE flashed amazing potential but what good does that do on a suit on the sideline? I realize teams historically draft big ... but reaching for an oft-injured big was the mistake ... not going big ...even BEFORE hakeem rang no one bitched about taking Hakeem over MJ because the dream wasnt inury prone and improved every year in college and the pros ... Sam was a reach based on height. MJ wasnt the only player they passed to get Bowie only the best and most famous.

Barkley, Stockton were all in that very same draft. Other solid players include Alvin robertson, Otis thorpe and Kevin Willis ...

SO in a draft with 4 first ballot HOF'ers and players that made a few ASG appearances they took Bowie with the 2nd choice ...

Last how else would it be considered a mistake amb, except using historical context? Some folks (Im guessing ACC fans, Knight myself and Im sure some others thought it was a mistake in 1984) not only me ...thought it was a mistake in 1984. I knew far little about hoops. I only watched/noticed MJ/UNC because JAmes worthy had played there and he was talking to Chick Hearn in a interview about how good MJ would be (he went back to play with him at NC in the summer after he left) and even he underestimated MJ ...

Also my Mom used to buy me Street & smiths college magazine and they also thought MJ was the 2nd best player coming out that year. Im not saying I knew MJ would be GOAT i did not know for sure BOwie would bust. Just saying it was a poor decision then and it's silly that GM's keep making. Almost every big you pointed to as winning had great college careers (sans Moses) and limited no injury history. Even without stats and moderne medicine Blazers should of seen the red flags that a kid like me could see ... of course I would rather have a dominant big. But on every level of ball a special wing is better than a mediocre to decent big.
I think we agree more than disagree on this. Portland, no question, made a mistake, even without the benefit of hindsight. Your point, as far as I can get it, is that the magnitude of that mistake is as big as people make it out to be in recent times, while my stance is that it was a mistake, but it was a mistake that many teams have made, and is not as bad as people drafting Kwame Brown and Olowakandi #1 in drafts, and made by Portland again with the drafting of Oden over Durant.

Bowie was a very skilled big man, one who can defend and pass like a young Bill Walton, he wasn’t just some tall guy who happened to play basketball.[/QUOTE]

Walton was not injury prone in college, Amb.

[ambchang]

Never said he was.

[baseline bum]

I think we agree more than disagree on this. Portland, no question, made a mistake, even without the benefit of hindsight. Your point, as far as I can get it, is that the magnitude of that mistake is as big as people make it out to be in recent times, while my stance is that it was a mistake, but it was a mistake that many teams have made, and is not as bad as people drafting Kwame Brown and Olowakandi #1 in drafts, and made by Portland again with the drafting of Oden over Durant.

Bowie was a very skilled big man, one who can defend and pass like a young Bill Walton, he wasn’t just some tall guy who happened to play basketball.

Walton was not injury prone in college, Amb.[/QUOTE]

Drafting Bowie was way worse than drafting Oden, as Bowie had stress fractures in college that kept him out of two seasons while Oden's only injury was a broken wrist.

2nERNj0afyY

[JRHernandez88]

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/6302/mjchokehand.png

[ambchang]

The video posted speaks more to why Bowie pick wasn't as bad as it looked now. The announcers were praising Bowie throughout, talked about how he came back with vengeance, and that his skills were phenomenal.

[Killakobe81]

Walton was not injury prone in college, Amb.

Drafting Bowie was way worse than drafting Oden, as Bowie had stress fractures in college that kept him out of two seasons while Oden's only injury was a broken wrist.

2nERNj0afyY[/QUOTE]

my point exactly ...

[Killakobe81]

Oden not only had the wrist but had some HS issues (IIRC) plus he has a problem with his legs being ... one longer than the other by quite a bit ...

Not trying to extend this debate just saying they were signs in both cases ... and the Blazers chose to ignore them, based on the build around a big theory. I am not even arguing that they were wrong to do so ...I just dont like it. to me unless the big is special I would rather have the special wing. Sam had the chance to be special ... but his injuries for me seemd to make him a bust candidate.

Again dint know MJ would be GOAT ... I also thought durant would be good but he exceeded my expactations as well. Im just arguing that with a wing of high caliber (which both were considered out of college) the quality of big does not need to be Moses or Shaq ...just liek you pointed out that some bigs won without supertsar wings. I only have been watching ball since 1980 but Magic, Bird, Isiah Kobe and Mj have been the stars of almost as many titles as Shaq, Duncan etc. I think the common thread is having one of the best players regardless of size.

Note: I do think the PG theory is interesting ... but rarely has a PG been a top 3 NBA player since I have been watching the NBA ... and when they have been Kidd, Magic Isiah, Stockton, GP (debateable) they win or make the Finals ...

[Killakobe81]

I also realize because of Kareem/Magic and Shaq/Kobe the numbers are hard to sort out ...

[Ashy Larry]

Drafting Bowie was way worse than drafting Oden, as Bowie had stress fractures in college that kept him out of two seasons while Oden's only injury was a broken wrist.

2nERNj0afyY

my point exactly ...[/QUOTE]


gotta love the porn music in the background ......