Update: Gay to Raptors, Prince to Grizzlies, Calderon to Pistons

[cd021]

The Memphis Grizzlies and Toronto Raptors are in “active trade discussions” about forward Rudy Gay, according to Mark Stein.

[Toronto] continue to pursue Gay and also covet Grizzlies forward Darrell Arthur. Toronto, sources said, has made veteran point guard Jose Calderon and blossoming young forward Ed Davis available as the two cornerstones of its offer.

[Boston Celtics] has registered exploratory interest in Gay. But making a trade for Gay would require Boston to part with Paul Pierce – a step that Celtics management may not be ready to take.

Entire Article at http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/29/rudy-gay-trade-rumors-raptors-grizzles-celtics/?sct=uk_t2_a3




The Grizzles are looking more and more like a bottom half seed 5 or 6th. They're offense is in free fall (for the 1st 15-20 games was top 5) they are currently ranked 19th. Their defense keeps gives them an outside shot of of doing some series damage in the post season though.

Moving Gay or Arthur could be seen as a benefit to the Spurs, especially with Arthur as a pick and pop shooter at the four. The Spurs have had problems defending or allowing to many uncontested jumpers to bigs (that may be by design at times though)

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Toronto should not get rid of Ed Davis, that is ridiculous. He's one of the few bright spots for the Raptors. The Raps have enough chuckers (henderson, derozan) I don't know how much more Rudy Gay would help.

[AFBlue]

Toronto should not get rid of Ed Davis, that is ridiculous. He's one of the few bright spots for the Raptors. The Raps have enough chuckers (henderson, derozan) I don't know how much more Rudy Gay would help.

When is the last time the Raptors made a good decision?

[freetiago]

anything that gets rid of darrel arthur is good for SA

[Em-City]

Toronto should not get rid of Ed Davis, that is ridiculous. He's one of the few bright spots for the Raptors. The Raps have enough chuckers (henderson, derozan) I don't know how much more Rudy Gay would help.

Who?

[AFBlue]

Who?

I think he meant Alan Anderson.

Terrence Ross is another young wing on their roster, which makes this even more puzzling.

And then there's the fact that they shelled out $20M for Landry Fields.

[lefty]

If Colangelol makes this move .......

























:lmao

[Brunodf]

:lolRaptors trading Ed Davis:bang

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Whatever they do, TOR has to move Calderon for the sake of my fantasy team. Once Lowry takes over the reigns again and goes off I'll be in a prime position. :D

Hey, Amuseddaysleeper, you contribute to Bawful huh? I haven't read that in a while but was addicted to it for a couple of years. Please tell everyone there that I love their work. I'll start reading it agin now that you've reminded me. :)

[exstatic]

When is the last time the Raptors made a good decision?

Never. They sent a lottery pick to Houston for Lowry, and now he's supposedly not fitting in and a locker room problem. They're looking to move him months after overpaying Houston for him with a lottery pick. smh.

[blkroadrunners]

Never. They sent a lottery pick to Houston for Lowry, and now he's supposedly not fitting in and a locker room problem. They're looking to move him months after overpaying Houston for him with a lottery pick. smh.

Wasn't really fond of the Derozan extension neither. 4-years for $42M for a player who produces like a role player isn't gonna cut it.

[racm]

Wasn't really fond of the Derozan extension neither. 4-years for $42M for a player who produces like a role player isn't gonna cut it.

Meanwhile Curry's 4 yrs 38 m looks like a steal barring health concerns.

[chazley]

Colangelo gets zero credit. He clearly is one of the worst GM's in basketball.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Whatever they do, TOR has to move Calderon for the sake of my fantasy team. Once Lowry takes over the reigns again and goes off I'll be in a prime position. :D

Hey, Amuseddaysleeper, you contribute to Bawful huh? I haven't read that in a while but was addicted to it for a couple of years. Please tell everyone there that I love their work. I'll start reading it agin now that you've reminded me. :)

Hey buddy, I myself haven't contributed in some time as work has been crazy these past few months but the site is still going strong! Will pass the word along my friend, thanks for the support :toast

[look_at_g_shred]

Meanwhile Curry's 4 yrs 38 m looks like a steal barring health concerns.

Sprained his ankle last night.

[Grit and Grind]

"Raptors looking to get Gay in a three way" - GAY SHIT

[TheSkeptic]

:lolRaptors trading Ed Davis:bang

Ed Davis is a little bit overrated in my opinion, but I don't believe it'd be a good idea to package him in this trade. Though I can understand the reasoning somewhat since Gay>than either Calderon or Davis from both a basketball and a marketing standpoint. But what can I say? The Raptors are the worst on so many levels.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

"Raptors looking to get Gay in a three way" - GAY SHIT

:rollin

[Hoops Czar]

Ed Davis is a monster on the offensive glass. For a team that doesn't shoot the ball particularly well, that's huge. He destroyed the Spurs on the offensive glass so hopefully the trade doesn't go through. Hollinger's doing work, tbh.

[Sean Cagney]

Ed Davis is a monster on the offensive glass. For a team that doesn't shoot the ball particularly well, that's huge. He destroyed the Spurs on the offensive glass so hopefully the trade doesn't go through. Hollinger's doing work, tbh.

I HOPE that trade does not go through, that would suck.

[Spurs_Be_Beastin']

"Raptors looking to get Gay in a three way" - GAY SHIT



:rollin ^^^

[Jordanobili2320]

:rollin ^^^

how is it that funny?

[cd021]

When is the last time the Raptors made a good decision?

They did draft "that surefire hall of famer" Chris Bosh.

[cd021]

"Raptors looking to get Gay in a three way" - GAY SHIT

Pause...No Homo.

[cd021]

Sprained his ankle last night.

For literally the 9th time in the last two seasons, this is past scary for one player to have this many injuries in such a short span. Anyone ever heard of someone rolling an ankle 9 times in a dozen seasons let alone 2?

[TheSkeptic]

They did draft "that surefire hall of famer" Chris Bosh.

...And then failed to construct a decent team.

For myself, I actually thought Wade was a better prospect at the time. But Bosh at least panned out so I'm not nearly as bitter over that as I am the drafting Rafael Araujo for example.

[cd021]

...And then failed to construct a decent team.

For myself, I actually thought Wade was a better prospect at the time. But Bosh at least panned out so I'm not nearly as bitter over that as I am the drafting Rafael Araujo for example.

For the record I don't exactly thing Bosh is an HOF. I was referencing that article from earlier this week. Bosh really didn't pan out he lead the team to 1 playoff spot and didn't play (If i remember right) He was just an high scorer on a bad team, great players have impacts bigger than that. Lebron lead his team to the finals with Andy being the second best player. A.I lead his team to the Finals as well, with similarly talent lacking teammates around him . Granted he is playing well as a 3rd option now, but still leaves alot to be desired.

[look_at_g_shred]

So it seems raptors and grizzlies are looking for a third team to get involved to take Calderon..

[TheSkeptic]

For the record I don't exactly thing Bosh is an HOF. I was referencing that article from earlier this week. Bosh really didn't pan out he lead the team to 1 playoff spot and didn't play (If i remember right) He was just an high scorer on a bad team, great players have impacts bigger than that. Lebron lead his team to the finals with Andy being the second best player. A.I lead his team to the Finals as well, with similarly talent lacking teammates around him . Granted he is playing well as a 3rd option now, but still leaves alot to be desired.

Oh I've followed the Raptors for years and you remember right. I completely agree with what you. The problem with Bosh is that, well, he's smart and pretty good but a little bit delusional. Has been for a while.

He's clearly not on the level of guys like Lebron, Dirk, Duncan, Manu, etc. I actually don't think he should get in but if he keeps playing with Lebron I can see him getting in (unfortunately) but not as a first ballot HOF talent. Standards for the hall are slipping imo.

[racm]

Memphis is scarier when they trade Gay away IMO

Imagine them starting Arthur, Randolph, and Gasol with Davis as their first big off the bench.

[spurraider21]

Memphis is scarier when they trade Gay away IMO

Imagine them starting Arthur, Randolph, and Gasol with Davis as their first big off the bench.
Heck no. Arthur thrives as a 4 because of his pick and pop ability, since bigs aren't likely to follow him out that far. If he plays the 3, wing defenders are much more likely to close out on him. Gay gives the Grizz a legit perimeter scoring threat, who can pull up off the dribble and nail jumpers. Plus he's pretty clutch and gives them easy buckets in transition... which they desperately need as a team with offensive deficiencies.

[look_at_g_shred]

Heck no. Arthur thrives as a 4 because of his pick and pop ability, since bigs aren't likely to follow him out that far. If he plays the 3, wing defenders are much more likely to close out on him. Gay gives the Grizz a legit perimeter scoring threat, who can pull up off the dribble and nail jumpers. Plus he's pretty clutch and gives them easy buckets in transition... which they desperately need as a team with offensive deficiencies.

I thought the trade invovled Arthur to Toronto as well...

[Mel_13]

Latest from Woj:

The final hurdle for the salary dump of Memphis Grizzlies forward Rudy Gay to the Toronto Raptors hinges on finding a third team to absorb the expiring contract of Raptors guard Jose Calderon, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--grizzlies--raptors-looking-for-third-team-to-facilitate-rudy-gay-trade-033758281.html

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Memphis and Toronto pushing closer on deal to send Rudy Gay to the Raptors, sources tell Y! Sports. Raps would part with Calderon and Davis.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
There have been scenarios today that include third teams, and also where Grizzlies and Raptors could do deal straight up, sources tell Y!

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
Raptors and Grizzlies are discussing framework of trade with respective ownership groups now, sources tell Y! Deal could be done tonight.

[elemento]

A few things

The Grizz has to take a starting SF from a 3rd team, otherwise this trade doesn't make sense for them. I doubt they will start Pondexter.

Davis is a good prospect, but behind Z-Bo and Arthur? They're thinking ahead way too early or they have another move in mind.

I wonder which team will be the 3rd team. Maybe the Mavs getting Calderon and sending Marion + stuff to Memphis.

[Spurs da champs]

Memphis is stupid.

[LittleCriminal]

Could the Spurs be that 3rd team... I mean, Lamont is sitting out tonight's game (sand in VAgina) and playblair is M.I.A.

[Chinook]

I'd be surprised if the Grizzlies give up Gay without at least getting back Ross. Ed Davis is nice, but they really lack wing scoring.

[Mel_13]

A few things

The Grizz has to take a starting SF from a 3rd team, otherwise this trade doesn't make sense for them. I doubt they will start Pondexter.

Davis is a good prospect, but behind Z-Bo and Arthur? They're thinking ahead way too early or they have another move in mind.

I wonder which team will be the 3rd team. Maybe the Mavs getting Calderon and sending Marion + stuff to Memphis.

Ot they've concluded that their team isn't a real contender and getting their financial house in order trumps any adverse effects on this year's prospects.

[TD 21]

They'll probably be getting Kleiza and Anderson back as well and they could be getting an SF back for Calderon, too.

Even if they're getting a 1st on top of that and get decent value for Calderon, without Ross, it's not enough. People can criticize Gay all they want, but they'll be hard pressed to find a better wing player, because they're too good to get a quality draft pick, few of that caliber are available in free agency and when they are, Memphis is not exactly known to be a prime destination. Davis is a nice prospect, but with Arthur in tow, I don't see how he get's more than 12-15 mpg max.

On the flip side, because Ross is not in the trade, Johnson and Davis are somewhat redundant and Toronto is also not exactly known to be a prime destination for free agents either, it's a worthwhile gamble for the Raptors. Because it's them and Colangelo, it'll probably blow up in their face though.

[Mel_13]

They'll probably be getting Kleiza and Anderson back as well and they could be getting an SF back for Calderon, too.

Even if they're getting a 1st on top of that and get decent value for Calderon, without Ross, it's not enough. People can criticize Gay all they want, but they'll be hard pressed to find a better wing player, because they're too good to get a quality draft pick, few of that caliber are available in free agency and when they are, Memphis is not exactly known to be a prime destination. Davis is a nice prospect, but with Arthur in tow, I don't see how he get's more than 12-15 mpg max.

On the flip side, because Ross is not in the trade, Johnson and Davis are somewhat redundant and Toronto is also not exactly known to be a prime destination for free agents either, it's a worthwhile gamble for the Raptors. Because it's them and Colangelo, it'll probably blow up in their face though.

:lol

[LakerHater]

@ESPNSteinLine (http://www.spurstalk.com/ESPNSteinLine): Pistons have had interest in Calderon all season & have two SFs to help MEM fill Gay void: Prince & Maggette

[ace3g]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine) Going online now: ESPN sources say Grizzlies and Raps have deal in place to swap Rudy Gay and Hamed Haddadi for Ed Davis and Jose Calderon

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)
Sources say deal will morph to include third team to take Calderon, w/Detroit at front of line to land Spaniard after chasing him all season

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)
Third team not yet in stone but Pistons have had interest in Calderon all season & have two SFs to help MEM fill Gay void: Prince & Maggette

[Maddog]

Hmm, the Spurs need a backup point
Too bad nothing of interest to give up....
(Oops just realized Calderon makes 10 Mill Yikes)

[LakerHater]

ESPN link to Grizz/Raps Rudy Gay trade in principle ... with Detroit or Dallas looming as possible third team in: http://es.pn/XT6HzE (http://t.co/zcXX83Hz)

[swaggerjackson]

Not doubting that it is going to happen, but they still need a team to accept Calderon. I hope it does happen, but why is everyone up in arms right now. I mean breaking news on ESPN.com/nba seems premature imo. Atleast until the trade is set in stone, I am not getting excited.

[TD 21]

Even if it's Prince they're getting, him and Davis is not enough for Gay and essentially Calderon. He's an overzealous chucker, but why they're not at least getting Anderson thrown him (with Gay, Fields, who they're stuck with, DeRozan and Ross, the Raptors no longer need him anyway), I don't understand.

It doesn't make sense to trade for Davis and play him 12-15 minutes, so I'm thinking they might just trade Randolph and basically completely re-build, which is stupid given their lack of picks and them not being a prime free agent destination. And I seriously doubt Gasol and Conley have enough cache around the league for a big name free agent to be attracted to their situation.

[Blake]

When is the last time the Raptors made a good decision?

in before an lol Bonner gets posted

[LakerHater]

The Raptors, sources said, are expected to take on Grizzlies reserve center Hamed Haddadi (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3478/hamed-haddadi) in addition to Gay. The Dallas Mavericks (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks) are the other most likely landing spot for Calderon, but sources said Dallas is resistant to parting with Vince Carter (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/136/vince-carter), Memphis' prime target on the Mavs' roster

[EJFischer]

Bad news for the Spurs. Davis has similar per-minute stats to Randolph. What I don't understand is why MEM isn't just keeping Calderon too, unless there are cap reasons. Calderon is way better than any of the players they're rumored to be flipping him for. But hey, if it means they give Tayshaun Prince minutes over Ed Davis, I'm all for it.

[LakerHater]

@sam_amick (http://www.spurstalk.com/sam_amick) said Boston may be in the mix for Jose Calderon but unsure who is being made available (Paul Pierce / others)

[ace3g]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine) ESPN sources say Pistons poised to send both Tayshaun Prince and Austin Daye to Grizzlies to acquire Jose Calderon as part of Rudy Gay deal

[LakerHater]

ESPN sources say Dallas is other prime landing spot for Calderon, but I'm told Mavs reluctant to part with SF that Grizz want: Vince Carter

[DPG21920]

What a shrewd move by MEM. Gay, even with his flaws still is talented. And while not a perfect fit, I can't believe they really don't believe this team has a shot in the playoffs? Even if you somewhat think that, you rarely see shrewd moves such as this - especially when it's not perfectly clear cut you aren't a contender.

With regards to Calderon sticking with MEM - MEM won't do that because they have Conley and they seem to like Bayless who is on a much cheaper deal. While I think Calderon's shooting would be a great addition, I can see why not wanting the extra money and how having a solid vet PG like Calderon confined to a for sure back up role might cause issues.

[DPG21920]

Sucks for Ed Davis too. He was really starting to learn/break out and now he is stuck behind Gasol/Randolph/Authur in a stacked rotation. He will likely have pretty limited opportunity and minutes now which is unfortunate.

[DPG21920]

Looks like it's Calderon to DET for just Prince+2nd round pick. Interesting since they have Knight.

[Mugen]

My first reaction is that this is a pretty good haul for the Grizz. Ed Davis is a very good prospect. Not too crazy about Daye but he's got some potential I guess. Tayshaun is a pretty good and cheap replacement as well that should fit in seamlessly. I've liked Hollinger's moves so far tbh.

Colangelo is still a f'n retard tho.

[Mel_13]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine) ESPN sources say Pistons poised to send both Tayshaun Prince and Austin Daye to Grizzlies to acquire Jose Calderon as part of Rudy Gay deal

Gay for Prince, Daye, Davis and about 5M lopped off of this year's payroll. Another 15M or so in future savings. Not bad.

[Mel_13]

Sucks for Ed Davis too. He was really starting to learn/break out and now he is stuck behind Gasol/Randolph/Authur in a stacked rotation. He will likely have pretty limited opportunity and minutes now which is unfortunate.

Until they trade Randolph this summer.

[TheSkeptic]

Bad news for the Spurs. Davis has similar per-minute stats to Randolph. What I don't understand is why MEM isn't just keeping Calderon too, unless there are cap reasons. Calderon is way better than any of the players they're rumored to be flipping him for. But hey, if it means they give Tayshaun Prince minutes over Ed Davis, I'm all for it.

Spurs might have more problems with them now but not necessarily because Davis will be playing. Davis is a good player but he's nowhere near Randolph's level. Not even close actually. I don't know how much you watched the Raptors but Davis is a similar player to Amir Johnson. Probably his main skill is rebounding and getting easy baskets. He's a so-so defender. That's great (he is a good player) but it's safe to say that the Grizzlies won't be riding Davis to wins or anything like that. When SA plays Memphis, I'm pretty confident that Diaw will be able to outplay Davis if he doesn't coast.

What will probably hurt the Spurs is Memphis going more through guys like Gasol and Randolph with Gay out of the line-up. So far KL has been able to lock him down. And of course every shot Gay took was one that their bigs weren't. TD and Splitter will have their work cut out for them with this frontcourt if the Grizzlies are going back to being big-oriented again. But the power balance should more or less stay the same. Even after they trade Randolph tbh.

[Raven]

wow man if that's true, that's a really really terrible trade for the grizzlies.. getting raped by the raptors, that's quite somthing.. still, i'm not sure what kind of game could gay-derozan-lowry play toghether, they don't seem to fit.

[DPG21920]

Pretty sure Daye is not involved....Nevermind - it's final - Daye is involved.


Prince has 2 years 15M so not exactly cheap either. Overall, I still can't believe their mindset (MEM) is that they aren't contenders. Have to believe they can stay the same/slightly improve while losing Gay (which very well may be true). Depends on how much Prince has left (haven't watched him much this year). Ed Davis certainly gives them great depth (4 pretty damn good bigs).

TOR, I have no idea what you are thinking. I get you want some star power and you are weak at SF. But you aren't really in the playoff race & Bargs isn't good and is still an issue. Yes, this opens up time for the better player in Lowry and pairs him with some athletes to run (which is Lowry's game) in DeRozan and Gay, but their still lacking outside shooting (Bargs is ok there) and a good C. Lots of holes but you might argue they are slightly more talented overall (but is it worth it)

[DPG21920]

Until they trade Randolph this summer.

They might, but to me that is not a given especially with Gay gone and the money they have saved. I really struggle to believe they think they are far off from contending vs them just thinking they don't take a hit to their contender status by losing Gay.

[elemento]

There we go

A deal for the Memphis Grizzlies to send Rudy Gay to the Toronto Raptors has been agreed upon, according to sources.


The Raptors will send out Jose Calderon and Ed Davis for Gay and Hamed Haddadi.


The Pistons will acquire Calderon, with the Grizzlies receiving Tayshaun Prince and Austin Daye.

They had to take a SF back, so it's not a surprise. With Holinger working for the MEM office, it's not a surprise they moved Gay for a "meh"package. Gay's advanced stats were horrible for a guy paid like a star.

I agree with Mel. With a move like that, I am damn sure they will move Z-Bo after this season.

[4Dwin!]

3-Team trade agreed in principle:Raptors get: Rudy Gay and Hammed HadadiGrizzlied get: Tayshaun Prince, Austin Daye, Ed Davis, and 2nd round pick (from Detroit)Pistons get: Jose Calderon

[Mel_13]

They might, but to me that is not a given especially with Gay gone and the money they have saved. I really struggle to believe they think they are far off from contending vs them just thinking they don't take a hit to their contender status by losing Gay.

We'll see, but these two trades have Hollinger written all over them. Trading Randolph while his value is high for younger, cheaper players is the next logical step.

[Mel_13]

And Hollins won't be back next season.

[TheSkeptic]

The Raptors will send out Jose Calderon and Ed Davis for Gay and Hamed Haddadi.


Yeah I'm not sure what Toronto stands to gain with this move honestly. But on the flipside at least Calderon and Davis are probably headed to less dysfunctional teams.

Completely agree about moving Randolph after this season. They shouldn't see a noticeable dip in production with Davis starting full-time or anything, but they'll have to find a guard or someone who can replace Randolph's clutch scoring ability. Hollinger's earning his money tbh. Colangelo on the other hand...

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Grizzlies
:lmao Get ready for Tayshaun Isolayshauns

[DPG21920]

I am absolutely shocked at how much power Hollinger has in this FO. This is some serious stuff and it's happened fast as hell. I mean, I guess you don't bring him in just to hamstring him, but damn :wow

I personally think MEM will be every bit as dangerous overall so in that regard, great deal. They have by far the best big man rotation in the league, stout defense and the only real thing they lack is shooting from 3. Still a pretty dangerous team and there are always cheap serviceable shooters they can sign.

It will be interesting to see how Gay fares in TOR. Lowry/DeRozan/Gay is a crazy athletic 1/2/3, but if Bargnani is still Bargnani, they are going to have some serious issues. Maybe a change of scenery will revive Gay some though but I'm not paying that price on that kind of gamble. Luckily it's just two years left on the contract, but 37M :wow

[ace3g]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bk8sf3m lol

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Incredibly shitty take from Kendrick P:lolrkins...

296757137638567936

[DPG21920]

Perkins wtf :lol Stick to underperforming with OKC

[DPG21920]

Love the move for DET. They might be able to make a little push for the 8th seed now (especially if Monroe snaps out of it) and Calderon is an expiring contract. So he definitely helps their guard play, might help them make the playoffs (still a bit of a stretch) and he's off the books where TP was still 2yrs/15M + Daye 1yr/2M. Smart move.

[DPG21920]

Also, am I just being a dummy, but was TOR under the cap? I thought they were over the cap and if so how did they take on more salary?

[MaNu4Tres]

Sucks for Ed Davis too. He was really starting to learn/break out and now he is stuck behind Gasol/Randolph/Authur in a stacked rotation. He will likely have pretty limited opportunity and minutes now which is unfortunate.

I don't think Hollinger is done, tbh. Randolph may be next to go. Freeing up time for Davis to start at PF for 1/8th of their previous starting PF's salary.

[DPG21920]

Maybe, but that would mean he likely does not believe they are contenders and I can't believe that. This move makes sense, but because even though Gay is gone, this likely doesn't hurt their chances. Randolph on the other hand has a good PER (second highest on the team) and even Hollinger knows you need some decent contracts on the books (which Zbo and Marc are living up to their contracts, Gay was not).

[MaNu4Tres]

They just gutted their bench (Speights/Ellington trade to Cavs) and got rid of their best perimeter player (even though he's vastly overpaid for his terrible decision making/efficiency; he was still their best weapon on the perimeter). If he thought they had a real chance at a championship, I don't think he makes these deals. These moves weren't made to win now, imo.

[TD 21]

Spurs might have more problems with them now but not necessarily because Davis will be playing. Davis is a good player but he's nowhere near Randolph's level. Not even close actually. I don't know how much you watched the Raptors but Davis is a similar player to Amir Johnson. Probably his main skill is rebounding and getting easy baskets. He's a so-so defender. That's great (he is a good player) but it's safe to say that the Grizzlies won't be riding Davis to wins or anything like that. When SA plays Memphis, I'm pretty confident that Diaw will be able to outplay Davis if he doesn't coast.

What will probably hurt the Spurs is Memphis going more through guys like Gasol and Randolph with Gay out of the line-up. So far KL has been able to lock him down. And of course every shot Gay took was one that their bigs weren't. TD and Splitter will have their work cut out for them with this frontcourt if the Grizzlies are going back to being big-oriented again. But the power balance should more or less stay the same. Even after they trade Randolph tbh.

Exactly. I like advanced stats too, but this is a perfect example of why they're not everything. Spurs fans adhere to that when it's a player they're nostalgic about, like Jackson, but when it's a player they don't care about on a team they don't care about, suddenly advanced stats are the be all end all. The difference between Randolph and Davis is, Randolph can be an offensive centerpiece type. Davis, on the other hand, is and always will be an ancillary scorer. You're bang on with your assessment of him.

They can have all the financial flexibility they want, the bottom line is, for the reasons I've already stated, they'll be hard pressed to build a team as good as the one they had, let alone better. A Gasol, Conley, Davis core isn't great and I don't think they'll get a massive piece for Randolph, either.

As for the Pistons, this is an outstanding move. They clear long term salary, get a quality, play making PG and a guy who could make Drummond an even more serious threat in the pick-and-roll, while eliminating their logjam at SF.

[timvp]

Meh, I don't LOVE this trade for any of the teams. It's especially stupid for Toronto ... but that's to be expected. They are, IMO, the worst run team in the NBA. Everything they do is just dumb.

Rudy Gay isn't that good. He's a scorer who is inefficient, doesn't fit well in a system and requires a ton of touches. When your other two players on the perimeter are Lowry and DeRozan -- both of who also require a lot of touches -- it's just a damn bad fit. Add in Bargnani and they'll have the market cornered on players who look decent in the box score but who don't actually help win much.

For Gay to be utilized the best, he'd need to be in a system that uses his length on defense and is desperate enough offensively to live with his inefficiency. Like, say, I don't know, the Grizzlies, for example.

As for the Grizzlies, getting Davis back is a good get. He's not a great fit for their roster but any time you can get a competent big with potential, you're happy. Tayshaun Prince is the consummate pro who is basically the opposite of Gay. He takes good shots, never turns it over and plays to win. He's also a plus defender ... even though he's a long ways from his prime in that category. Daye doesn't really move the needle; he's still painfully raw.

I'm not sure what the Pistons are doing, tbh. They desperate need a point guard (Knight, Stuckey, Bynum, etc. are all shooting guards in reality) and Calderon should really help Monroe and Drummond. Calderon might help Detroit slip into the 8th seed ... but what's the point? A lottery pick would help the team better long-term ... and Calderon is a rental who will probably make too much money this offseason, especially considering he's probably going to fall off a cliff soon.




Going back to Memphis, this trade will make them better defensively ... but they were already elite. It will give them better bigman depth ... but they already had elite bigman depth. They can run more through their bigs offensively ... but they really don't have the shooters to space the court it order for their bigs to carry the complete load. Losing Gay probably raises their floor on a night to night basis but it also lowers their ceiling. Gay can become unguardable and carry their offense. Prince nor Davis is going to provide that. For an already offensively inept team, taking a step backwards on O is risky ... especially when you do it in order to strengthen what already were strengths to begin with.

[Paranoid Pop]

Made the Grizz strength stronger while freeing up some shots for their big 3, can't say it's a bad trade for them.

The DeRozan Gay combination of volume scorers is gonna suck balls imo, but since Collangelo is a retard, is there any way we can talk him into sending Ross our way...

[Mel_13]

Also, am I just being a dummy, but was TOR under the cap? I thought they were over the cap and if so how did they take on more salary?

Due to Memphis and Toronto being over the cap, the 50% trade rule is invoked. Memphis and Toronto had to be no more than 150% plus $100,000 of the salary given out, or no more than $5,000,000 (whichever is lesser), for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6221252

[T Park]

freed up more shots for the other players! Great, now when teams double whos going to kill them? Tony Allen? Tayshaun Prince?

Dont understand this trade.

[Mel_13]

freed up more shots for the other players! Great, now when teams double whos going to kill them? Tony Allen? Tayshaun Prince?

Dont understand this trade.

Follow the money.

[T Park]

Follow the money.

Freed up money doesnt win rings.

ask the Spurs with the Scola trade.

[cd98]

Going back to Memphis, this trade will make them better defensively ... but they were already elite. It will give them better bigman depth ... but they already had elite bigman depth. They can run more through their bigs offensively ... but they really don't have the shooters to space the court it order for their bigs to carry the complete load. Losing Gay probably raises their floor on a night to night basis but it also lowers their ceiling. Gay can become unguardable and carry their offense. Prince nor Davis is going to provide that. For an already offensively inept team, taking a step backwards on O is risky ... especially when you do it in order to strengthen what already were strengths to begin with.


Right. Memphis is going to struggle to score, especially if Randolph gets injured or in foul trouble. They will be great on defense. But their games will be unwatchable. Even the defense-heavy Spurs of the 2000s at least had Ginoboli and Parker, and for the more refined basketball afficionado, Tim Duncan, perhaps the all-time best at his position as a reward for watching. This Memphis team will give new meaning to the phrase "win ugly."

[DPG21920]

They just gutted their bench (Speights/Ellington trade to Cavs) and got rid of their best perimeter player (even though he's vastly overpaid for his terrible decision making/efficiency; he was still their best weapon on the perimeter). If he thought they had a real chance at a championship, I don't think he makes these deals. These moves weren't made to win now, imo.

None of the moves really dampen their chances now. Speights is easily replaced by Authur/Davis. Actually, big improvement now basketball wise. Ellignton is not an NBA player IMO. And if they bring in a guy like Delonte West, they are better their too. Losing Gay does hurt their scoring some, but overall, that doesn't really make them any less of a contender in reality. Losing Zbo would most definitely do that if they went the moneyball route there. To me, that is the difference.

[Paranoid Pop]

freed up more shots for the other players! Great, now when teams double whos going to kill them? Tony Allen? Tayshaun Prince?

Dont understand this trade.

Darrell Arthur at SF, Prince and Conley.

Doesn't exactly suck. Besides with a three big man rotation of Gasol Zbo and Davis and a SF like Arthur, won't be exactly easy to grab a fucking rebound against them.

[objective]

I think Memphis just got better. Prince is fine as half-price, less demanding Gay replacement and Davis really makes the big line-up solid. Spurs won't get any breaks when the Grizzlies to their bench. Luckily Pop isn't burying his best frontcourt players as much as he used to because of idiotic fairness issues.

And Toronto is epically dumb. Forget about how Gay fits into their schemes and alongside Lowry and DeRozan, just look at the salaries for their small forwards:

Gay - 17.9 million in 2013-14
Fields - 6.25 million in 2013-14
Kleiza - 4.6 million in 2013-14

28.75 million on small forwards? LOL.

They can amnesty Kleiza, but they are still screwed. Fields can't shoot so he's garbage at SG. They just spent a lotto pick on Ross. Where does he play now? Scrub back up minutes behind DeRozan? Way to waste a lotto pick. They could have had Drummond to step in after a Davis trade, but no, Colangelo is a buffoon.

Colangelo might not be the worst GM in the league, but he makes a good case. He has stiff competition from guys like Petrie and Blanks though.

[DPG21920]

Freed up money doesnt win rings.

ask the Spurs with the Scola trade.

They weren't favorites to win a ring & this keeps them likely at the same level with an equal chance of being a better overall team due to fit as they are at being worse due to losing Gay's potential scoring ability and it saves them loads of money.

[DPG21920]

I think Memphis just got better. Prince is fine as half-price, less demanding Gay replacement and Davis really makes the big line-up solid. Spurs won't get any breaks when the Grizzlies to their bench. Luckily Pop isn't burying his best frontcourt players as much as he used to because of idiotic fairness issues.

And Toronto is epically dumb. Forget about how Gay fits into their schemes and alongside Lowry and DeRozan, just look at the salaries for their small forwards:

Gay - 17.9 million in 2013-14
Fields - 6.25 million in 2013-14
Kleiza - 4.6 million in 2013-14

28.75 million on small forwards? LOL.

They can amnesty Kleiza, but they are still screwed. Fields can't shoot so he's garbage at SG. They just spent a lotto pick on Ross. Where does he play now? Scrub back up minutes behind DeRozan? Way to waste a lotto pick. They could have had Drummond to step in after a Davis trade, but no, Colangelo is a buffoon.

Colangelo might not be the worst GM in the league, but he makes a good case. He has stiff competition from guys like Petrie and Blanks though.

They could very well move DeRozan if they believe Ross is the guy. He has value and would lessen the financial load. Plus, I have to imagine they are still looking to move Bargs if they can.

[DesignatedT]

I like this for Memphis. Davis is a good prospect and Prince can fill in for Gay. As for this season, this is probably a good thing if the Spurs were to matchup vs Memphis. Randolph isn't the player he was a couple years ago and Memphis is going to have a tough time scoring against anyone without Gay.

[Mel_13]

Freed up money doesnt win rings.

ask the Spurs with the Scola trade.

You said you didn't understand trade. I explained it to you. Memphis placed a higher priority on financial health than on maximizing their title chances this season. The two trades that they've made over the last week or so have taken them out of the tax, saved about 12M in salary this season, and shaved at least 15M off of future obligations. Follow the money to understand what Memphis has been doing since the new owner hired Hollinger.

[elemento]

One thing about the DET 1st round pick timvp. It belongs to the Bobcats now. DET used it to dump Ben Gordon and his massive contract.

It's lottery protected for the 2013 draft, so It makes sense for DET to lose the pick right now in this weak draft instead of losing it in a better draft, like the 2014.

[objective]

They could very well move DeRozan if they believe Ross is the guy. He has value and would lessen the financial load. Plus, I have to imagine they are still looking to move Bargs if they can.

Hard to move DeRozan when they just gave him a 4 year, 38 million dollar extension. Which hasn't even started yet. There has to be some base year compensation issues there with the new CBA which could hinder a trade for awhile. And this ignores how much Colangelo has gushed about how special DeRozan is.

[objective]

Prince shoots 43.4% from three this year. And should be good getting set up from Gasol.

[DPG21920]

I like this for Memphis. Davis is a good prospect and Prince can fill in for Gay. As for this season, this is probably a good thing if the Spurs were to matchup vs Memphis. Randolph isn't the player he was a couple years ago and Memphis is going to have a tough time scoring against anyone without Gay.

They already did and they might actually net a win with their improvement defensively.

[DPG21920]

Hard to move DeRozan when they just gave him a 4 year, 38 million dollar extension. Which hasn't even started yet. There has to be some base year compensation issues there with the new CBA which could hinder a trade for awhile. And this ignores how much Colangelo has gushed about how special DeRozan is.

Not saying it's likely, or even will happen this year, but might make sense if Ross they believe to be the future and want to open up time.

[Chinook]

I agree with TD21 . There's no way the Grizzlies should have moved Gay without getting back at least one strong scoring wing. Toronto had two in Derozan and Ross. If you replace Davis with Ross, I think this trade is an obvious win for Memphis. I don't think they got good value. Advanced stats be damned.

I'll wait to see what Detroit does after this. There is talk that they may move Stuckey. If they can get back a player like Sullinger from Boston, then that could be good. They probably could make use of Courtney Lee right now. Maybe they try to trick the Jazz into giving up some talent for one of their guards.

I actually like the deal for Toronto. In my opinion, they got Gay for a steal. They still have some pieces if they want to try to get another good player.

[exstatic]

And Hollins won't be back next season.

It's funny that he won't play his best lineups late. He has no belief in advanced stats. Tony Allen should absolutely be on the floor for defense late in games, but he insists on playing other wings. Hollinger is playing Billy Bean to his Art Howe by trading his "crutch" players. :lol

[exstatic]

freed up more shots for the other players! Great, now when teams double whos going to kill them? Tony Allen? Tayshaun Prince?

Dont understand this trade.
Their best playoff run was without Rudy Gay. If they can flip Randolph for a scorer on a rookie deal and an expiring, it's a win.

The Grizzlies, as constituted, had topped out. They were sliding into the second tier of playoff teams in the West. They were done as contenders.

[DPG21920]

I'm not sure what the Pistons are doing, tbh. They desperate need a point guard (Knight, Stuckey, Bynum, etc. are all shooting guards in reality) and Calderon should really help Monroe and Drummond. Calderon might help Detroit slip into the 8th seed ... but what's the point? A lottery pick would help the team better long-term ... and Calderon is a rental who will probably make too much money this offseason, especially considering he's probably going to fall off a cliff soon.




You don't like this for DET - taking what they do this season out of consideration (might not hurt their draft status too much at all and it's slated to be a very weak draft) = Calderon's expiring contract opens up quite a bit of cap space. Makes sense to me at least.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Good trade for both the Grizz and the Pistons. Grizz add a grizzled veteran in Prince who can still contribute as a role player and will finally be motivated to play well for a contender. He would be an adequate replacement for Gay and will also add three point shooting. The Grizzlies will also use up the space vacated by Gay for a decent FA next season or perhaps use it to retain Tony Allen.

For the Pistons, Prince was a consistent performer but a coach killer and a malcontent in some sense. Losing his contract opens up a lot of salary cap space for next season while still keeping them under contention with Jose Calderon going to be a useful contributor for them in the race for the 8th spot in the Least competitive of the Leastern Conference spots.

For the Raptors, the buffoons continue to add more heavy contracts and a collection of individuals without any philosophy. Got to be stuck in irrelevance for another 3-4 years under perhaps the worst GM in the NBA now.

[DPG21920]

I agree with TD21 . There's no way the Grizzlies should have moved Gay without getting back at least one strong scoring wing. Toronto had two in Derozan and Ross. If you replace Davis with Ross, I think this trade is an obvious win for Memphis. I don't think they got good value. Advanced stats be damned.

I'll wait to see what Detroit does after this. There is talk that they may move Stuckey. If they can get back a player like Sullinger from Boston, then that could be good. They probably could make use of Courtney Lee right now. Maybe they try to trick the Jazz into giving up some talent for one of their guards.

I actually like the deal for Toronto. In my opinion, they got Gay for a steal. They still have some pieces if they want to try to get another good player.

Keep in mind this is about money just as much as basketball. Also, no team was going to let them get rid of Gay's large contract (even though it's only 2 years long after this year) and give them top young prospects in return. I agree that in a bubble Gay is probably being undervalued a little too much, but in the real world this was likely the best total package they could get. Not many teams are jumping at taking on big contracts right now for underperforming stars. Let along giving up talented cheap young big men to boot.

I agree that in a perfect world they get a good wing scorer back (which is why the half hearted Pierce talks were amazing to me), but they still have some options to address that.

[Chinook]

Not saying it's likely, or even will happen this year, but might make sense if Ross they believe to be the future and want to open up time.

Yeah, BYC isn't as big of a deal with the 150-percent rule added in. This makes it easier to take back bigger salaries.

For example: In a trade Derozan's out-going salary is $3.3 Million. So the Raptors can take back no more than $5.05 Million for him in a one-on-one deal. To the receiving team, his incoming salary is $8.26 Million, so they have to send out at least $6.25 Million. That $1.478 Million gap isn't very hard to bridge by sending a couple of cheap players to other teams, and it doesn't even account for a team like Phoenix just using their cap room.

[Chinook]

Keep in mind this is about money just as much as basketball. Also, no team was going to let them get rid of Gay's large contract (even though it's only 2 years long after this year) and give them top young prospects in return. I agree that in a bubble Gay is probably being undervalued a little too much, but in the real world this was likely the best total package they could get. Not many teams are jumping at taking on big contracts right now for underperforming stars. Let along giving up talented cheap young big men to boot.

I agree that in a perfect world they get a good wing scorer back (which is why the half hearted Pierce talks were amazing to me), but they still have some options to address that.

I refuse to believe the Raptors front office was smart enough to lowball the Grizzlies out of getting back Ross. If I were Toronto, I'd rather give up Ross than Davis any day. Really, I just don't think Memphis wanted him, which boggles my mind. I agree they weren't going to get good value for Gay, but they had better leverage after getting under the tax last trade. They weren't supposed to be as desperate this time around.

[szkorhetz]

Their best playoff run was without Rudy Gay. If they can flip Randolph for a scorer on a rookie deal and an expiring, it's a win.

The Grizzlies, as constituted, had topped out. They were sliding into the second tier of playoff teams in the West. They were done as contenders.

What about trading Jax+De Colo+Neal for Randolph?

[Spursfanfromafar]

The bottom line for the Grizz -

They swap Rudy Gay, Marreese Speights, Wayne Ellington, Josh Selby and future (most likely late and complicated) First round pick for

Tayshaun Prince, Ed Davis, Jon Leuer, Austin Daye.

They secure their financial future, dump a borderline but underwhelming and overpaid All Star in Rudy Gay, a defenseless offense only big in Speights and some roster fillers to get a defensive minded veteran with championship nous, a young and talented big in Davis, and two floor spacing bigs who could possibly by resuscitated in Leuer and Daye.

John Hollinger. Impressive!

[DPG21920]

I refuse to believe the Raptors front office was smart enough to lowball the Grizzlies out of getting back Ross. If I were Toronto, I'd rather give up Ross than Davis any day. Really, I just don't think Memphis wanted him, which boggles my mind. I agree they weren't going to get good value for Gay, but they had better leverage after getting under the tax last trade. They weren't supposed to be as desperate this time around.

I am fairly confident this is wrong. I know I read that TOR made Ross untouchable in this trade.

[DPG21920]

Raptors in active trade discussions for Rudy Gay
Canada.com-Jan 29, 2013
According to Adrian Wojnarowski, the Rudy Gay to Toronto deal is ... draft pick, however the Raptors have made Terrence Ross untouchable.

[crc21209]

Like timvp said, all the Grizzlies did was add to their strengths on defense and rebounding, but they didn't do anything to help their offense. As a matter of fact, they've probably taken a stepback. I think the Spurs may match up even better with them now without Gay. Yeah the Grizzlies are HUGE on the frontline and may beast on the boards, but they have no legit offensive perimeter threat now. Tony checks Conley, and Green/Manu and Kawhi can dig down and help out against Randolph and Gasol now. Tony Allen and Tayshaun Prince won't provide even half the scoring threat that Rudy Gay provided. Good move for the Pistons to clear Prince and Daye off their pocket books. They'll have some pretty good change to spend in the off-season now. Stupid move for Toronto, but that's to be expected like everybody else here has said.

[elemento]

I refuse to believe the Raptors front office was smart enough to lowball the Grizzlies out of getting back Ross. If I were Toronto, I'd rather give up Ross than Davis any day. Really, I just don't think Memphis wanted him, which boggles my mind. I agree they weren't going to get good value for Gay, but they had better leverage after getting under the tax last trade. They weren't supposed to be as desperate this time around.

That's what i don't get as well. Memphis was low-balled when they tried to trade Gay at first because teams knew they were desperate to dump salary in order to avoid the lux tax. Still, even after that shit move giving a future 1st round pick + decent role players for Leuer (essentially a salary dump), they still got a crap offer for Gay anyways.
Memphis did not want Ross and the reason is Hollinger. He made the Gay move happen (high salary with below average PER) and he obviously prefers Davis over Ross (look at their PERs).

[Captivus]

You can like the MEM trade or not, but theres something clear from my point of view: They have a plan and they are following it. Thats not minor, thats a lot. It can work or not, thats another issue.
I dont know if I can say the same thing about Toronto.

[lefty]

They traded Ed Davis ???????????????????????????????



Colangelo :lmao

[DPG21920]

That's what i don't get as well. Memphis was low-balled when they tried to trade Gay at first because teams knew they were desperate to dump salary in order to avoid the lux tax. Still, even after that shit move giving a future 1st round pick + decent role players for Leuer (essentially a salary dump), they still got a crap offer for Gay anyways.
Memphis did not want Ross and the reason is Hollinger. He made the Gay move happen (high salary with below average PER) and he obviously prefers Davis over Ross (look at their PERs).

That is not true. They asked for Ross, and he was deemed untouchable.

[Captivus]

Raptorsforum quotes:

my only real worry about Gay is that by coming here he will be relied on more heavily than in memphis and we don't know if he's that type of player
it was like when the Nets lost a bunch of their guys after that championship run and Richard Jefferson became the star player on the team and we found out he wasn't that type of player, he got about 10-15 more touches a game but was missing about 70% of them


that's not what the team really needs. As was mentioned twice yesterday, the Raps are 10th in points per 100 possessions. We were already able to score the ball. The problem is getting stops. We give up leads because we don't stop teams, not because we can't score.

We're going to be destroyed in the paint by every team that plays us now, and we're going to be a perimeter team that shoots about 41%. This is going to be so ugly.
Even Amir won't be the same without Calderon, and dollars to donuts the soft one goes back in the starting line-up. We're 28th on defense and fully capable of being last.

Not many are happy...

[Chinook]

That is not true. They asked for Ross, and he was deemed untouchable.

Not really challenging you, but where'd you see that? I guess I could believe it, but that seems like a poor move on their part.

With Gay and Derozan locked up for a couple more years, I don't see where Ross fits in (meaning why he'd be untouchable). Maybe Derozan is on the move?

[TheSkeptic]

Exactly. I like advanced stats too, but this is a perfect example of why they're not everything. Spurs fans adhere to that when it's a player they're nostalgic about, like Jackson, but when it's a player they don't care about on a team they don't care about, suddenly advanced stats are the be all end all. The difference between Randolph and Davis is, Randolph can be an offensive centerpiece type. Davis, on the other hand, is and always will be an ancillary scorer. You're bang on with your assessment of him.

They can have all the financial flexibility they want, the bottom line is, for the reasons I've already stated, they'll be hard pressed to build a team as good as the one they had, let alone better. A Gasol, Conley, Davis core isn't great and I don't think they'll get a massive piece for Randolph, either.

As for the Pistons, this is an outstanding move. They clear long term salary, get a quality, play making PG and a guy who could make Drummond an even more serious threat in the pick-and-roll, while eliminating their logjam at SF.

Exactly. The deal-breaker to me is that Davis isn't an especially good off the ball player. Hamilton, Reggie, and Ray Allen are all examples of guys who could move really well without the basketball and who you could tailor your offense around somewhat. Splitter, Noah, and maybe Howard would probably be the bigs who are better at scoring off the ball (although Noah's touch is debatable ..). I'm with you in that I love advanced stats but I try to temper my expectations with the eye test as well. Because Davis has been playing on a bottom-feeder, scoring efficiently, and rebounding on a team that can't be bothered to do anything well, I think people have an unrealistic idea of what he's capable of.

But he is a solid player who will most likely produce stat-wise. If the plan is to move Z-Bo as well, however, the Grizzlies will have to upgrade their wings/backcourt to stay in contention. People who think Gasol, Conley, and Davis will be enough to make it in the West are going to be disappointed.

Detroit definitely came out well on this one. Calderon's a PG who's really good at getting guys the ball exactly where they like it. He's also got a really calm and steady game management style which I think is good for the young guys they have over there. He's not an all-star but he's a fabulous player who will win you games if you give him quality pick and roll players as well as a more aggressive backcourt running mate. I would've loved to have him in San Antonio.

[Paranoid Pop]

Not really challenging you, but where'd you see that? I guess I could believe it, but that seems like a poor move on their part.

With Gay and Derozan locked up for a couple more years, I don't see where Ross fits in (meaning why he'd be untouchable). Maybe Derozan is on the move?

Not including Ross kinda redeems the Raptors and yeah they need to get rid of some of their big salaries now because their situation is pretty bad cap wise, especially when it'll come to resigning Lowry.

Colangelo is in love with Bargnani and they are way deeper at SG-SF than at PF so yeah Derozan is probably the logical choice if they are gonna trade someone.

[Chinook]

Not including Ross kinda redeems the Raptors and yeah they need to get rid of some of their big salaries now because their situation is pretty bad cap wise, especially when it'll come to resigning Lowry.

Colangelo is in love with Bargnani and they are way deeper at SG-SF than at PF so yeah Derozan is probably the logical choice if they are gonna trade someone.

Just a hunch here, but I don't think Colangelo's love for Bargnani is the reason why they haven't moved him. I think this contract is actually worse than Gay's.

[exstatic]

Not many are happy...

Sounds like here.

[DPG21920]

Not really challenging you, but where'd you see that? I guess I could believe it, but that seems like a poor move on their part.

With Gay and Derozan locked up for a couple more years, I don't see where Ross fits in (meaning why he'd be untouchable). Maybe Derozan is on the move?


Raptors in active trade discussions for Rudy Gay
Canada.com-Jan 29, 2013
According to Adrian Wojnarowski, the Rudy Gay to Toronto deal is ... draft pick, however the Raptors have made Terrence Ross untouchable.

[Brazil]

It's a good trade for Pistons tbh. The 2 young bigs need more touches and a pg to play with them...knight and co sucks...

i saw Detroit a lot and even if he is past his prime a long time ago, Prince is a very nice player to have. He is humble, play for the team, shoot the 3 and long 2s very well, I actually believe he is going to be great for the Grizz. Motivation can be an issue for him, he loves Detroit so at his age I m not sure he will be 100%.

[lefty]

Sucks that Prince has been traded

They should have allowed him to end his career in Detroit

He is great with young players

[rascal]

freed up more shots for the other players! Great, now when teams double whos going to kill them? Tony Allen? Tayshaun Prince?

Dont understand this trade.

Memphis already beat the Spurs without Gay.

[Brazil]

Sucks that Prince has been traded

They should have allowed him to end his career in Detroit

He is great with young players

+1 tbh

humblest athlete I met

[Chinook]

Woj is about as reliable of a source as you can get for these types of things. Thanks, DPG21920

[cd021]

Oh I've followed the Raptors for years and you remember right. I completely agree with what you. The problem with Bosh is that, well, he's smart and pretty good but a little bit delusional. Has been for a while.

He's clearly not on the level of guys like Lebron, Dirk, Duncan, Manu, etc. I actually don't think he should get in but if he keeps playing with Lebron I can see him getting in (unfortunately) but not as a first ballot HOF talent. Standards for the hall are slipping imo.

I admire your belief that the basketball HOF has standards. The HOF is kind a joke, to me at least. Feels like they allow 4 all-stars (multi all stars) and a couple of no name high school coaches a year.

There are all stars players ,who are exactly that, all-stars. Just because someone is 5X + doesn't guarantee a spot. If you have to question rather they deserve to get in then its probably a no. imo

Just a mini rant, it annoys me.

[cd021]

Their best playoff run was without Rudy Gay. If they can flip Randolph for a scorer on a rookie deal and an expiring, it's a win.

The Grizzlies, as constituted, had topped out. They were sliding into the second tier of playoff teams in the West. They were done as contenders.

Agree with the ceiling part. they may not finish in the top half of the west and could slide to 6th with Denver heating up and GSW dominating +500 competition.

I was wandering if you had someone in mind with the scorer on rookie deal, Tyreke Evans maybe?

[cd021]

Memphis already beat the Spurs without Gay.

They weren't gonna beat us in the post season with or without Gay.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Colangelo is just all over the place, not sure if they have some sort of a plan at all.

For Detroit, it's an OK trade, it makes sense if they try to make a late push for the playoffs. They free up some money in the summer too.

I like this trade for Memphis. Prince is just like Shane Battier from 2011. I don't think it'd hurt their offense, alright it's not going to be great but the more they run through their bigs and slow the pace down the better. I see it as similar to the previosly discussed Jared Dudley for Gay trade. Ed Davis is very impressive too. I'm not sure if him and Arthur would click together off the bench, but if they do, that's as good a reserve big pairing as you'd get. Impressed with Hollinger.

[spurraider21]

as if the Grizz weren't offensively challenged enough. they are 28th in pace and 21st in offensive rating. now they dump gay off. its also hard to believe that at this point in their careers prince is a better defender than gay

[exstatic]

Colangelo is just all over the place, not sure if they have some sort of a plan at all.

His plan is to collect every bad MAX NBA contract given to a B- to B+ player

[Mugen]

Would have been better for the Spurs had they unloaded Darrell Arthur instead of Gay tbh.

[Spurs_Be_Beastin']

as if the Grizz weren't offensively challenged enough. they are 28th in pace and 21st in offensive rating. now they dump gay off. its also hard to believe that at this point in their careers prince is a better defender than gay

this.
gay was there best scorer.
none of the 3 they traded for can get buckets like gay.
not worried here imo....

[TheCultOfPersonality]

The Grizz got the best offer that they could get for Rudy Gay. I didn't think the Grizzlies were going to get anything of value for him considering that he's making max money and having his worst season since his rookie season and the only thing that he's above average at he's not elite at.

Tayshaun is a respectable replacement for Rudy. Davis is a good young player, but with Z-Bo, Gasol, and Arthur still on the team he'll probably just get around 14 minutes a game. Not sure if Austin Daye will get playing time on the Grizzlies that's not garbage time, but whatever.

All and all don't have a problem with the trade. I mean what's the worst that can happen. The Grizzlies being one of the lowest scoring teams in the NBA?

[hater]

Gay Prince Cauldron

there's a Tolkien story there somewhere

[TheCultOfPersonality]

:lol Incredibly shitty take from Kendrick P:lolrkins...

296757137638567936
:lmao @ Rudy being up their with KD, Kobe, LeBron, and Melo.

He's not even up there with Russell Westbrook. Heck Prime Pau Gasol is better than Rudy.

[therealtruth]

Perkins should know bad trades. He was part of a bad trade.

[lefty]

:lmao

This fan wasnt aware of the trade
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2098077/sadprincefan.gif

[freetiago]

Really good move for memphis
once pondexter gets back their bench will be lethal

they just need to get rid of randolph now and find a way to make gasol take 15+ shots min a game
arthur is an elite pick and roll defender and a very good mid range shooter
ed davis can get offensive boards like randolph and hes also extremely mobile
run offense primarily through m.gasol postups/high screen and roll and surround the team with defnders and spot up shooters

[urunobili]

Does this mean that we'll put Kawhi on Conley?

[look_at_g_shred]

:lmao

This fan wasnt aware of the trade
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2098077/sadprincefan.gif

:lmao

[Mel_13]

Among 151 guys w/ 1000+ minutes, Ed Davis is 12th most valuable contract by PER/dollars this season. Rudy Gay is 148th of 151.

https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh

[Mark in Austin]

I think this makes Memphis a tougher match up for the Spurs. Gay just wasn't the defensive presence that Battier was when Memphis beat SA in the playoffs, plus he pulled touches away from Randolph & Gasol, Memphis' true strengths on offense. Prince is closer to Battier - needs less touches offensively, plays good defense. I don't always agree with Hollinger, but this move is one I agree with. Gay should have been moved before now TBH.

[Chinook]

I imagine the Raptors are hoping Gay is more efficient when he doesn't have to share with dominant post players. It's possible, I supposed, but I don't see any way Derozan and Gay will work together unless one or both becomes a team-oriented player.

[BlackSilver]

Really good move for memphis
once pondexter gets back their bench will be lethal

they just need to get rid of randolph now and find a way to make gasol take 15+ shots min a game
arthur is an elite pick and roll defender and a very good mid range shooter
ed davis can get offensive boards like randolph and hes also extremely mobile
run offense primarily through m.gasol postups/high screen and roll and surround the team with defnders and spot up shooters

Ok, it would be dumb to get rid of Z-Bo.

Overall a strange trade for during the season. Seems better suited to an off-season trade where you give Coach Hollins time to build a team.

[freetiago]

I think randolph is overrated
hes the weaklink defensively and if he has length put on him hes not that good in the post
hes elite at rebounding but nothing else really
some teams out there would be willing to give up some really good pieces for him
i know houston was linked in trade talks for randolph

if it wasnt for bonner guarding him in the 2011 playoffs then everyone would think randolph is a garbage stat padder like they have for his entire career

[therealtruth]

I think this makes Memphis a tougher match up for the Spurs. Gay just wasn't the defensive presence that Battier was when Memphis beat SA in the playoffs, plus he pulled touches away from Randolph & Gasol, Memphis' true strengths on offense. Prince is closer to Battier - needs less touches offensively, plays good defense. I don't always agree with Hollinger, but this move is one I agree with. Gay should have been moved before now TBH.

Really the Grizzlies need outside shooters to surround Gasol and Randolph yet they have been one of the worst 3pt shooting teams. If they can add 3pt shooting and defense it really helps them.

[ace3g]

Gay with 10 pts at halftime off the bench: Raptors up 46-30 on Clippers:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2013020128

[ace3g]

sucks for the Pistons, Calderon can't play tonight because of visa issues: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pistons-calderon-still-working-visa-221143256--nba.html

updates on Prince, Daye, and Davis in their first game:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2013020129

[Cry Havoc]

Raptors currently tapping det Clipper azz

[Sean Cagney]

Really good move for memphis
once pondexter gets back their bench will be lethal

they just need to get rid of randolph now and find a way to make gasol take 15+ shots min a game
arthur is an elite pick and roll defender and a very good mid range shooter
ed davis can get offensive boards like randolph and hes also extremely mobile
run offense primarily through m.gasol postups/high screen and roll and surround the team with defnders and spot up shooters
I wish they would get rid of Randolph now lol, are you serious? They would be alot worse without Randolph out there.

[ace3g]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539178_571497456211389_1046877153_n.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/df896bbffdf14ff69ebdfc28b407adad/940x.jpg