Woj: Hollinger was behind the Jackie Buttler signing

[Bruno]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--rudy-gay-trade-shows-lebron-james-the-future--super-team-era-ending--065716242.html


The San Antonio Spurs once used him [John Hollinger] as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign a free agent named Jackie Butler. It was such a disaster, the Spurs had to attach Luis Scola to a trade to get Butler out of town.

[lefty]

I knew it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







RC Buford :lmao

[lefty]

Spurstalk just crashed

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:wow holy sh*t

[lefty]

what happened to the link

[Spursfanfromafar]

But wasn't this known information already?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61110

Buck Harvey reporting about Hollinger's sale pitch (and consulting idea) of Butler for the Spurs.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thought it was coach Brown who recommended Butler to Pop.

[baseline bum]

I can't blame him. Butler looked like a good player in New York, Larry Brown fucking loved him, and the Spurs needed some more low post scoring. The bad move wasn't signing Butler, as he didn't cost that much. The stupid move was salary dumping him when his contract was 1/4 of Bonner's and costing the team a fucking starting power forward.

[Bruno]

But wasn't this known information already?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61110

Buck Harvey reporting about Hollinger's sale pitch (and consulting idea) of Butler for the Spurs.

:wow
Great memory. :tu

[irishock]

lmao Scola for De Colo

[baseline bum]

lmao Scola for De Colo

It was Scola for VSpan

[Spursfanfromafar]

:wow
Great memory. :tu

:)

This article by Woj seems a bit below-the-belt. All things considered, I think if Hollinger is responsible for the Grizzlies' deals, then I suppose he has done a good job. There was no way a small market team was going to hobble itself by having to play three near max contracts and one high paying contract and expect to win, when one of those - Rudy Gay no way deserves such a contract.

Prince, Daye, Davis & Leuer for Gay, Speights, Ellington, Selby & a complicated first round pick is not just a pennies-for-the-dollar deal. I suspect that the Grizzlies have actually improved this season and have secured a strong status for the future as well.

And the roundabout talk about Lebron going back to Cleveland (quoting x,y,z sources) also seemed too much over the top, considering he is still locked in with the Heat for some more years (that Woj himself acknowledges) and has more to go with them before considering a future with any other team.

It all seemed to set up a barb at Hollinger ("statistician with a cable sports company" - lol).

[capek]

But wasn't this known information already?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61110

Buck Harvey reporting about Hollinger's sale pitch (and consulting idea) of Butler for the Spurs.

It was definitely known information. Back from 12/13/12 when this buffoon first got the job:


Am I misremembering this, or wasn't the Spurs signing of Butler attributed to Hollinger's analysis/some kind of recommendation? If that's correct, I'll continue to be skeptical about any kind of positive influence Hollinger will have on actual basketball decisions until he proves me wrong.

[jesterbobman]

Even in retrospect, I don't mind the Jackie Butler signing. Obviously it didn't work out, but you are playing the odds with a low contract guy like that and Butler was a decent bet. He was a productive low post player at a young age(expect improvement), and looking at adjusted +/- estimates had him only slightly negative
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html as a -0.1 player. Signing him for that small contract is a really good bet that we lost on, but that happens in a world of imperfect information, and the thinking process is the thing that carries on.

[Uriel]

Scola thread!

[Uriel]

And yeah, this article by Woj is definitely below the belt. But then again, he wrote an article like this about the Spurs in the 07 series against the Suns too, and I don't think people remember that anyway.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-67524.html

[elemento]

I can't blame him. Butler looked like a good player in New York, Larry Brown fucking loved him, and the Spurs needed some more low post scoring. The bad move wasn't signing Butler, as he didn't cost that much. The stupid move was salary dumping him when his contract was 1/4 of Bonner's and costing the team a fucking starting power forward.

This

Butler signing was not reason SA could not bring Scola over. They tried it several times.

The buyout problems and Holt's desire to remain under the lux tax were way big factors.

[iManu]

Scola thread.http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2011/07/hp7-pt2-trl-1153.jpg

[Hemotivo]

Butler looked like a good player in New York

:lmao

[Maddog]

This

Butler signing was not reason SA could not bring Scola over. They tried it several times.

The buyout problems and Holt's desire to remain under the lux tax were way big factors.
In part-
The Spurs have done a great job in staying competitive on a tight budget. I still think the summer of 06 and 07 where perhaps there biggest mistakes. Butler was the first, although they where lauded for it. Everybody blasted the Mavs for blowing up there title team, but the Spurs could have done it on a smaller scale in 07 and been better positioned for future runs. They where headed further over the cap with progressive salaries of Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce. Oberto opted out and a promising bench player by the name of Matt Bonner needed to be re-signed (before injury Matt was considered a promising asset that year). So to stay cap friendly and keep the team intact they shipped out Beno and Butler utilizing Scola as an enticement. It also has to be kept in mind most in the NBA did not think Scolas game would translate well into the NBA. In retrospect it was a mistake- although the team still made the WC finals with a one legged Manu.

[TDMVPDPOY]

u guys blame management

how come u guys havnt blame duncan yet, who didnt want a big like scola cause will play in duncans hot spots.....

[CubanMustGo]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--rudy-gay-trade-shows-lebron-james-the-future--super-team-era-ending--065716242.html

It just goes to show what happens when you blindly use formulaic methods rather than incorporate common sense and intangibles when making decisions.

[Obstructed_View]

u guys blame management

how come u guys havnt blame duncan yet, who didnt want a big like scola cause will play in duncans hot spots.....

That's it.

Plonk.

[manufan10]

u guys blame management

how come u guys havnt blame duncan yet, who didnt want a big like scola cause will play in duncans hot spots.....

:lol How are you even considered a Spurs fan? Is there a player/coach/etc. on the team that you don't hate?

[Mel_13]

:lol How are you even considered a Spurs fan? Is there a player/coach/etc. on the team that you don't hate?

If ST is a village, then he's the village idiot. I presume that management lets him hang around to provide comic relief.

[CubanMustGo]

If ST is a village, then he's the village idiot. I presume that management lets him hang around to provide comic relief.

More like facepalm relief. I put it on ignore long ago.

[manufan10]

If ST is a village, then he's the village idiot. I presume that management lets him hang around to provide comic relief.

:lol

[Mark in Austin]

The bad move wasn't signing Butler, as he didn't cost that much. The stupid move was salary dumping him when his contract was 1/4 of Bonner's and costing the team a fucking starting power forward.

^^^ This. The Spurs told Ron Mercer to just stay the fuck away, and they paid him 2.5x what they were paying Butler. They could have just as easily told Butler to stay home & collect a check. The stupidest decisions in that mess weren't made by Hollinger.

[ElNono]

Woj going HAM on Pera

[Mr. Body]

Butler had flashes with the NYK. It surprised most everybody he was a complete turd.

But blaming the decision on the loss of Scola doesn't cut it. That's completely on the doorstep of Owner and Buford. That's a separate decision. Butler wasn't even making that much.

[ace3g]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/adrian-wojnarowski-rips-john-hollinger/

[timvp]

I thought Butler was a very good gamble at the time and I still think so in retrospect. Butler was a 20-year-old center who was about league average by every stat (even stats invented since 2006). Finding centers that young who already produce at league average rates outside of the draft is extremely rare. One that played that well under Larry Brown, who typically hates young players, is even rarer. The Spurs signing him for $5 million over two seasons made it an even better gamble.

As we now know, it didn't work out. Butler basically retired from basketball after he got that contract. He showed up to camp fat and wasn't interested in practicing hard. After his contract expired, he was never heard from again. Like I said, Butler got that contract and retired. That's why it was a gamble in the first place. Not much a team can do if a player has no interest in succeeding.

The real mistake, as others have mentioned, was using Scola to salary dump Butler after the gamble failed. The Spurs should have just held on to Butler. He wasn't making much money and that team didn't face a roster crunch. The Spurs panicked in an attempt to clean their books and made a stupid trade. Give credit to the Rockets, but it should also be noted that they basically cheated the salary cap to get Scola (Yao got Scola a lucrative shoe deal in China that was able to afford him the ability to pay for his buyout in Spain ... the Spurs obviously didn't have such a connection to maneuver around the salary cap like that).

The next time a young league average center becomes available, I hope the Spurs are in on it. Butler was a miss but the payoff is worthwhile if you strike gold.

[Maddog]

Give credit to the Rockets, but it should also be noted that they basically cheated the salary cap to get Scola (Yao got Scola a lucrative shoe deal in China that was able to afford him the ability to pay for his buyout in Spain ... the Spurs obviously didn't have such a connection to maneuver around the salary cap like that)
.

That I didn't know nor had ever heard of before. But makes sense
Explains why no other team expressed even a hint of interest in him

[hater]

so what? Hollinger was no part of signing Dick Jeff and that was a great move :rolleyes

Hollinger will be just another average to poor GM. Cant' believe ppl think his numbers and bullshit formulas give him an extra advantage in real life :lol

[callo1]

Thought it was coach Brown who recommended Butler to Pop.

It was. People actually think Pop or RC would listen to Hollinger?

[wildbill2u]

yeah, I thought that was supposed to be the crucial connection to Butler.

[slick'81]

please no more spurs fucked up. god what a waste of scola lol


but it bought us many more years of bonner

[mosdef17]

The best thing about having Jackie Butler was in the old blurry footage on YouTube it kind of looks like we've just had DeJuan since 2007 haha. Let's just go with that story and forget the whole thing ever happened... The number 45 must only be available in 4XL.

[lefty]

so what? Hollinger was no part of signing Dick Jeff and that was a great move :rolleyes

Hollinger will be just another average to poor GM. Cant' believe ppl think his numbers and bullshit formulas give him an extra advantage in real life :lol

:lol Raptors and Gay are destroying the Clippers
:lol Grizz are looking like shit vs the... Wizards

:lmao Hollinger