Terahertz Imaging Detection scanner

[mouse]

This can "unzip" DNA according to studies, but last month, NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly told CBS New York that his department is looking to deploy these Terahertz Imaging Detection scanners on the street in the war on “illegal guns.” Never mind that it BLATANTLY violates your 4th Amendment right.

An engineer now files a law suit against these New York Body Scanners.

Read the whole story: http://www.prisonplanet.com/engineer-files-law-suit-against-ny-street-body-scanners.html

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/MAllen-Documentaries-007_zpsa78c9c33.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

What I didn't see is....

Are these active or passive scanners.

[Wild Cobra]

A passive scan should be able to pick up ambiant THZ frequencies just fine.


http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/science/spectralcalc/THZ_zps16a8a780.jpg

[Agloco]

A passive scan should be able to pick up ambiant THZ frequencies just fine.


http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/science/spectralcalc/THZ_zps16a8a780.jpg

Quick question: Does the temp make a difference here?

[Wild Cobra]

Quick question: Does the temp make a difference here?
Absolutely. That is just a standard response curve for 1.00 emissivity and a perfect black body source. That's why such passive scans can work. Each material weather it be skin, cloth, metal, etc... have a different response curve. now I won't pretend to know that such resolution and technology of seeing such spectra at such fine resolutions actually exist, but I find the OP as just a "fear-mongering" story, since such levels of terahertz radiation is available.

Care to either support or dismiss my words, or are you going to continue to be a "peanut gallery" voice in these forums?

[Expert]

^ This fucking guy

[mouse]

Quick question: Does the temp make a difference here?

^ legit question

I have not done any research so I can say much about this devise but if WC or Agloco can find out if the hazards are legit I would appreciate any input.

[Wild Cobra]

^ legit question

I have not done any research so I can say much about this devise but if WC or Agloco can find out if the hazards are legit I would appreciate any input.
THZ wavelengths have been studies. I did some reading before making my second post in this thread. At certain frequencies resonate with genetic base pairs. They have been deemed as dangerous by some, and I would say that is probably so. Still, it depends of the intensity of exposure, and probably total exposure time.

I ask again, are these active or passive scans. A passive system would not be dangerous at all. An active system probably would be, at least past certain power outputs.

If these systems being talked about use passive scanning, then the OP has no merit, other than the concerns of privacy. But we already have public cameras.

[DMC]

^ legit question

I have not done any research so I can say much about this devise but if WC or Agloco can find out if the hazards are legit I would appreciate any input.

Agloco knows already. WC will have to go fish.

[mouse]

Agloco knows already. WC will have to go fish.

You would surprised how much WC knows in fact his research is in the top 5 of people online these days

[DMC]

You would surprised how much WC knows in fact his research is in the top 5 of people online these days

Research sure, results, not so much.

[mouse]

Try debating him on 9/11 evolution or Apollo he is the lance Armstrong of debaters

[DMC]

Try debating him on 9/11 evolution or Apollo he is the lance Armstrong of debaters

So he's EPO doping and lying about it?

[TDMVPDPOY]

oi @wildcobra

if u have nothing to hide, why would u care how these clowns use the equipment?

[Wild Cobra]

Agloco knows already. WC will have to go fish.
Why?

I understand all I wish to. I have better things to learn more about than this.

[DMC]

Why?

I understand all I wish to. I have better things to learn more about than this.

Are these active or passive scanners? (suggests you know the difference and the ramifications of each)

You post like you're the forum guru on any technology related topic. How can you say, with a straight face, that you have better things to learn more about?

[Wild Cobra]

Are these active or passive scanners? (suggests you know the difference and the ramifications of each)

I do know the difference. I saw no where in my search, and design specs indicating which way it was. I pointed out that passive scanning, where no THZ signal is emitted, is not dangerous.


You post like you're the forum guru on any technology related topic.
I do know more than most people, but I'm no guru.

How can you say, with a straight face, that you have better things to learn more about?

I'm not wasting my time looking everything. The OP claims these are dangerous. I pointed out that they might not be.

Think of it as a camera, simply looking at these frequencies instead of visible light frequencies. Now in a low light situation, we would use a flash. We are now supplying source energy. This would be like the active scan.

Did you understand the reason I supplied the image from spectralcalc?

Ever use a camera made by Flir? I have.

http://www.flir.com/uploadedImages/Thermography_USA/Products/T-Series/solar-cells-picture-in-picture.jpg (http://www.flir.com/thermography/americas/us/)

[DMC]

I do know the difference. I saw no where in my search, and design specs indicating which way it was. I pointed out that passive scanning, where no THZ signal is emitted, is not dangerous.

After you Googled it


I do know more than most people, but I'm no guru.

lol no, you're just the one who opens his flapper about it. There are experts here, you aren't one of them. You think that, because they don't address Mouse's trolls, it's your calling to flex.


I'm not wasting my time looking everything. The OP claims these are dangerous. I pointed out that they might not be.

After Googling. Do you really need to point out a "might"?


Think of it as a camera, simply looking at these frequencies instead of visible light frequencies. Now in a low light situation, we would use a flash. We are now supplying source energy. This would be like the active scan.

Thanks for the lesson, prof.


Did you understand the reason I supplied the image from spectralcalc?

Yes, your misguided ego made it a requirement.


Ever use a camera made by Flir? I have.

lol


http://www.flir.com/uploadedImages/Thermography_USA/Products/T-Series/solar-cells-picture-in-picture.jpg (http://www.flir.com/thermography/americas/us/)


All that even the pic.

Are you suggesting you knew about this prior to this thread? Because I would bet that you Googled it just to respond to this thread.

Are you suggesting that using the camera makes you educated in the physics behind it? Do you know how charge coupled devices work? If you've used a CCD camera, you should.

[Wild Cobra]

Are you suggesting you knew about this prior to this thread? Because I would bet that you Googled it just to respond to this thread.

Yes, I already knew these things. I knew to go to spectralcalc for the response curve. I know about various frequency spectra. What I don't know is precisely how their system works. Probably no information out there on it. It's probably proprietary.

How about instead of being an insulting shithead, that you tell us what I am wrong about.

[mavs>spurs]

i don't want the policing hitting me with shit, that is assault

[DMC]

Yes, I already knew these things. I knew to go to spectralcalc for the response curve. I know about various frequency spectra. What I don't know is precisely how their system works. Probably no information out there on it. It's probably proprietary.

How about instead of being an insulting shithead, that you tell us what I am wrong about.

Think laser, mirrors, detector, blah blah blah. Basically a stepper with a higher frequency.

[Wild Cobra]

Think laser, mirrors, detector, blah blah blah. Basically a stepper with a higher frequency.
What are you making up?

[Wild Cobra]

^ legit question

I have not done any research so I can say much about this devise but if WC or Agloco can find out if the hazards are legit I would appreciate any input.
There are no health hazards to what they are proposing. They are simply looking at the energy already radiating from the human body, and looking for the silhouette of what blocks the body heat. They are likely going to a lower frequency than the typical IR that a thermal camera would see, that is what allows them to see through clothing.

Being able to see through clothing though...

I would consider this a serious 4th amendment issue.

[RandomGuy]

This can "unzip" DNA according to studies,

Why does my bullshit detector start going off when you talk about scientific studies?



A study published in 2010 and conducted by Boian S. Alexandrov and colleagues at the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico[18][19] created mathematical models predicting how terahertz radiation would interact with double-stranded DNA, showing that, even though involved forces seem to be tiny, nonlinear resonances (although much less likely to form than less-powerful common resonances) could allow terahertz waves to "unzip double-stranded DNA, creating bubbles in the double strand that could significantly interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication".[20] Experimental verification of this simulation was not done. A recent analysis of this work concludes that the DNA bubbles do not occur under reasonable physical assumptions or if the effects of temperature are taken into account.[21]


One study, speculative, and not verified by actual subsequent experimentation.

21.^ Swanson, Eric S. (2010). "Modelling DNA Response to THz Radiation". arXiv:1012.4153 [physics.bio-ph].


Modelling DNA Response to THz Radiation

[RandomGuy]

Terahertz radiation is, essentially, emitted by every bit of matter with a temperature over 10 Kelvins, FWIW.

[Expert]

There are no health hazards to what they are proposing. They are simply looking at the energy already radiating from the human body, and looking for the silhouette of what blocks the body heat. They are likely going to a lower frequency than the typical IR that a thermal camera would see, that is what allows them to see through clothing.

Being able to see through clothing though...

I would consider this a serious 4th amendment issue.

The THz signal is normally created by beating the outputs of two diode lasers phase locked to a reference and then rectifying that signal with a high bandwidth photodiode. The receiving photodiode mixes the signal with the local oscillator to generate an IF in a range where standard electronic components operate.

[Agloco]

Expert is Expert.

[Wild Cobra]

Expert is Expert.
Must be your troll...

[Wild Cobra]

Terahertz radiation is, essentially, emitted by every bit of matter with a temperature over 10 Kelvins, FWIW.
Very true, but the levels are pretty small, and peak at 0.587805 THz. Total enery is 0.000567052 W/m2

I wonder if the best of our equipment could measure such levels? I seriously doubt it. Signal to noise ratios must really suck. Then to try to focus to an image at those levels I say would be impossible with our technology.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/science/spectralcalc/spetralcalc10kthz_zps9b1b5ef3.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

oi @wildcobra

if u have nothing to hide, why would u care how these clowns use the equipment?
It's a matter of principle, and 4th amendment rights. Some could claim 5th amendment rights, but probably not well.

I can just see it. They start using this system, then send a swat team after a person walking down the street with a conceal carry permit. Are you OK with such a possibility?

[Agloco]

Must be your troll...

This after you stated that I don't contribute anything to the forum outside of nuclear science. :lol

Swing and a miss x2.

[Agloco]

Terahertz radiation is, essentially, emitted by every bit of matter with a temperature over 10 Kelvins, FWIW.

This ,on the other hand, is my troll. :lol

[Wild Cobra]

This ,on the other hand, is my troll. :lol
No, he's too smart to be you. Fuzzy has to be your troll.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, he's too smart to be you. Fuzzy has to be your troll.

He's not but keep guessing like you always do rather than speak with knowledge. Reading this thread I wonder who is whose troll but one thing that pervades is your typical Google posture. It's one thing to read about a topic and research it when you don't understand it. It's another when you then act like you have any fucking clue about what you are talking about.

There is a reason why wikipedia is not a valid reference but that doesn't stop you now does it?

We do this every day it seems: wade through WC Google inspired ignorance and grade school level mathematics. Now talk about assumptions some more. It's got to be a pretty lonely world when everyone else in the world is wrong but you.

[Wild Cobra]

He's not but keep guessing like you always do rather than speak with knowledge. Reading this thread I wonder who is whose troll but one thing that pervades is your typical Google posture. It's one thing to read about a topic and research it when you don't understand it. It's another when you then act like you have any fucking clue about what you are talking about.

There is a reason why wikipedia is not a valid reference but that doesn't stop you now does it?

We do this every day it seems: wade through WC Google inspired ignorance and grade school level mathematics. Now talk about assumptions some more. It's got to be a pretty lonely world when everyone else in the world is wrong but you.
What you say is exactly what your posts look like.

In many threads, i have pointed out that wiki is not a good source. Are you really dumb enough to think people already haven't seen my take on that?

Yes, I search at times. But I don't rely on searches to claim it as my knowledge. I use it as a resource. You are the one that will search and find something, then misapply it to an argument, and be too dumb to understand your failing.

All this stupidity you spout, yet you cannot tell us what I have said that is in error, in this or other threads.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol at times

Oh now it's "you have never proven me wrong." That goes with:

"The biblical flood was caused by a solar burp and explosions in the thermosphere."
"Flywheels do not store energy."
"There is no such thing as 1F capacitors."
"They don't consider deep ocean currents in their models."
"I have never made racist comments."
"Soot is the biggest contributor to global warming."
"The ocean is like a big soda going flat."

or any other of the thousands of insipid and plain stupid comments that we get from you day after day after day.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol at times

Oh now it's "you have never proven me wrong." That goes with:

"The biblical flood was caused by a solar burp and explosions in the thermosphere."

Liar, I never said that.

"Flywheels do not store energy."

Liar, I never said that.


"There is no such thing as 1F capacitors."
Yes, but I owned up to that mistake.

I'm not a car stereo installer like you. I didn't know there were advances to them. In the 70's such a rated capacitor would take up a room.

"They don't consider deep ocean currents in their models."
Not in the material you were quoting at the time.


"I have never made racist comments."

I see you need to look up the difference between racist and racial.


"Soot is the biggest contributor to global warming."
Liar, I never said that.
"The ocean is like a big soda going flat."

Not like you make it sound. I was explaining the effect of CO2 in a fluid, so other can understand the solubility changes.


or any other of the thousands of insipid and plain stupid comments that we get from you day after day after day.

I'm sorry you are too stupid to understand what I am doing.

You found one mistake...


So...

What have I said that is in error in this thread?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol


In the 70's such a rated capacitor would take up a room.

:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

:lol



:lmao
Have you seen the sizes of capacitors of the time?

OK, make it a small closet. Capacitors were rated in uF at the time, and a 2,200 uF capacitor was huge. Now take 545 of these, and you have several cubit feet.

Good luck searching them, this was 20 years before the internet. Since the internet is the only knowledge you know, I don't expect you to know about old technology.

[Wild Cobra]

Again, what have I said regarding the OP of this thread that is in error?

Can't answer that, can you?

[DMC]

Very true, but the levels are pretty small, and peak at 0.587805 THz. Total enery is 0.000567052 W/m2

I wonder if the best of our equipment could measure such levels? I seriously doubt it. Signal to noise ratios must really suck. Then to try to focus to an image at those levels I say would be impossible with our technology.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/science/spectralcalc/spetralcalc10kthz_zps9b1b5ef3.jpg

I don't get how you know how much radiation the body emits then you wonder if we can detect it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Have you seen the sizes of capacitors of the time?

OK, make it a small closet. Capacitors were rated in uF at the time, and a 2,200 uF capacitor was huge. Now take 545 of these, and you have several cubit feet.

Good luck searching them, this was 20 years before the internet. Since the internet is the only knowledge you know, I don't expect you to know about old technology.

Just because the parts you used were like that does not mean that they have to be that size. Caps for starters are even now are slightly larger than D batteries at around the same order of magnitude. OTOH ceramic capacitors have been around since WW2 and were common in most electronics. When you went to DeVry or wherever in the 1980's LSI tech was in existence and the caps were tiny. You just have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about.

Last time we discussed this I tried explaining the mechanics behind it. You didn't understand back then and started babbling about voltage in series from yet another google inspired blather. I am not going to bother wasting my time again.

I still think it's hilarious that you do not understand the properties of the parts you change every day.

As for what's wrong, I don't bother paying attention to your google regurgitation. I use this quote for a reason:


A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.

It's the story of your life in one sentence.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't get how you know how much radiation the body emits then you wonder if we can detect it.
I din't know how much the body emits for certain. However, I know thermal imaging works at these temperatures with low emissivity. I did look up for this discussion, what sources say on the human body emissivity. Three places have it listed at 97%, 98%, and 99%. That's higher than I would have expected.

Not knowing if we could detect it with just passive systems is because I didn't know what frequencies they are looking for. As you can see, the power vs. frequency changes dramatically. Because of my experience with thermal imaging, I knew the THZ they were using would be a lower frequency than typical IR, and the power drops more and more as the frequency gets lower and lower.

Now I did find an article that state a bandwidth of frequencies, but I now forget what it was. Still, I missed this in the OP:

The technology measures energy radiating from the body up to 16 feet away and can detect anything blocking it.
This right here tells us it is just a passive system.

I missed it in the OP, because I blew off the Prison Planet article. My bad there, but I did verify that was what they were doing.

Humidity is probably the biggest hindrance for these systems. When using a Flir camera to calculate temperature at a distance, you not only have to know the material you are looking at, but the humidity too. Afterall, H2O is the strongest greenhouse gas, and is translucent to these frequencies close up, and becomes opaque farther away.

[Wild Cobra]

Just because the parts you used were like that does not mean that they have to be that size. Caps for starters are even now are slightly larger than D batteries at around the same order of magnitude. OTOH ceramic capacitors have been around since WW2 and were common in most electronics. When you went to DeVry or wherever in the 1980's LSI tech was in existence and the caps were tiny. You just have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about.

Last time we discussed this I tried explaining the mechanics behind it. You didn't understand back then and started babbling about voltage in series from yet another google inspired blather. I am not going to bother wasting my time again.

I still think it's hilarious that you do not understand the properties of the parts you change every day.

As for what's wrong, I don't bother paying attention to your google regurgitation. I use this quote for a reason:



It's the story of your life in one sentence.
LOL...

I'm not going to waste my time explaining just how wrong you are. I'm just going to start to ignore you, and get a good laugh every time you spout your stupidity.

[Wild Cobra]

We use so much power with our automation equipment, that we use Thermal Imaging with regular inspections, for making sure we don't have bad connections:

http://www.afestlouis.org/FLIR-Systems.jpg

The above is a typical image of a bad connection or contact. If it was unbalanced power loading, the one wire would stay the hotter color through its length. See that too sometimes.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

DERP! I am going to use my typical posturing of acting like I am dismissing you when in reality I have no idea what I am talking about. I failed at Googling something to counter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracapacitor#History


Standard Oil did not commercialize their invention, licensing the technology to NEC, who finally marketed the results as “supercapacitors” in 1978, to provide backup power for maintaining computer memory.[7] The market expanded slowly for a time, but starting around the mid-1990s various advances in materials science and refinement of the existing systems led to rapidly improving performance and an equally rapid reduction in cost.

I pulled a you and Googled this to demonstrate a point. This is about capacitors greater than 1F. Now look at the date of initial discovery, nearly 60 years ago. Now think about what was happening in computing in 1978.

You don't understand the parts you change on a daily basis. They came out commercially with these around the time you were at vocational school. You have been behind the curve from the very beginning.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL..

Fuzzy, the web search and google queen, and it still doesn't say the capacity of supercapciters in 1978.

Commercial availability before that... None. Locked down research probably.

LOL...

Fuzzy Wuzzy...

You are so funny...

LOL...

[Wild Cobra]

Fuzzy...

While you go Google Crazy, looking to argue your invalid point, ask yourself this. What was the likely percentage of technical advances on capacitor design for this 1978 commercial capacitor over existing design. What was the improvement till another advancement in 1996, and from then till today. Capacitors today likely have around 10,000 times more capacity per volume than before 1978. I will make the guess that in 1978, there was about a 4000% improvement, and again about that in 1996. It's not like these supercapacitors in 1978 are going to be the same as those available today.

One more very important thing to look at in your exhaustive searches in your effort of a false win.

How big (physical volume) would a 1 farad 15 volt capacitor be before 1978, and how big would it be for these computer memory capacitors?

Oh...

How expensive might they be too? I'll bet they were very, very expensive in 1978 for that computer memory backup.

[mouse]

^Rack!

[DMC]

^You must have a sad existence.

[mouse]

^ wishes he existed,