Name your elite qbs

[Lincoln]

Rodgers
P manning
Brady
Rape
Flacco
Brees

On the fence about eli

[J.T.]

Rodgers
P manning
Brady
Rape
Flacco

On the fence about eli

tbh at this point you can't really say peyton is elite without also including eli. they're like the exact opposite qb. peyton is the master of the regular season, but goes one and done like he's getting paid by the other team. eli is an okay regular season qb but is clutch in the playoffs. if eli never wins another playoff game in his life his two super bowl wins over the pats are both epic enough (the first one more so) to qualify him tbh.


surprised brees didn't make your list, but maybe the whole "new orleans needed that sb win because of the hurricane" shit has worn off. or the bounty stuff changed peoples opinions.

[JingleJangleJingle]

lol Flacco and Ben being elite...jesus christ people did the same thing last year with Eli and he goes out and lays an egg during the season

[dbreiden83080]

Rogers
Brady
P Manning
Eli Manning
Brees
Flacco
Big Ben

[dbreiden83080]

lol Flacco and Ben being elite...jesus christ people did the same thing last year with Eli and he goes out and lays an egg during the season

Guess Eli just has to relax with his 2 rings.. That must suck..

[Lincoln]

Brees is supposed to be on there, forgot to add him.

I'm on the fence about rapetoo tho because he has always been unspectacular to me. Flacco after this run should be elite. His playoff record speaks for itself too

[Lincoln]

I want to say Matt Ryan too because he is essentially a Peyton in some ways. Great regular season, avg in the playoffs. Although he played pretty good this postseason

[Lincoln]

Dalton and luck will be elite within 2-4 years, griffin has a chance if he learns to slide and I think cam too if Carolina can build arous him and he grows the fuck up

[manufan10]

In no particular order:

Tom Brady
Joe Flacco
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees

[manufan10]

I think in a few seasons Russell Wilson, RGIII, Andrew Luck, Colin Kaepernick, and Matt Ryan have a chance to enter the elite category.

[Raven]

brady, brees, stafford, rodgers, flacco, big ben, both mannings. borderline matt ryan and cutler in different ways though..

[JingleJangleJingle]

most of you have like half the qbs in the league as elite...

[Clipper Nation]

Mannings
Brady
Flacco
Brees
Rodgers

RG3 and Wilson are thisclose to elite status... Rivers could get back into the discussion if McCoy and Whisenhunt can revive his career....

[DeadlyDynasty]

Big Ben is absolutely elite...you'd have to be a tard to think otherwise. He's played behind a perennially horrible/injured offensive line since 2006 and is one of the most clutch playoff performers of our generation.

[FkLA]

Flacco had an elite playoff run. I would like to see more consistency out of him before I put him in the same class as the others. I know he has that whole playoff win in his first five years stat going for him but he was never a game changer like he was this postseason. I need to see more tbh.

[TIMMYtoZO]

:lol if Matt Ryan is elite, you might as well put Tony Romo in that class as well since they are literally the same type of player. That word is thrown around like it is easy to achieve. Rodgers, Peyton/Eli, Big Ben, Brees and Brady are the only elite QB's in the league.

Luck will be soon and a Flacco will be if his motivation doesn't die after his new deal.

[JingleJangleJingle]

i wonder if Romo were to win a Super Bowl next season would everybody here list him as Elite?

[Chinook]

I hate the term elite. There are only two categories of quarterbacks that matter: those who can win in the playoffs, and those who can't. The media uses the elite moniker as a means of justifying rooting for certain teams. When "non-elite" quarterbacks like Eli, Rodgers and now Flacco end up out-dueling the golden boys (and Big Ben), the media has to scramble to build an extra pedestal so they can add to their elite collection instead of just admitting that status doesn't mean anything.

Newsflash: It doesn't matter if you have Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, or any 5,000-yard passer. You just need a team full of players who work well together and coaches who can establish a winning culture and sense of unity. Get a quarterback (and other players on all sides of the ball) who can step up in key moments, and you don't need to worry about position rankings.

[Chris]

i wonder if Romo were to win a Super Bowl next season would everybody here list him as Elite?

Yes, but nothing less than winning a Superbowl would put him in that class. Until then he is a joke.

[DeadlyDynasty]

The Ravens made the playoffs and won the SB on the arm of Joe Flacco. This team has morphed into an offense-first squad too, no longer riding their defense to wins. The 2 biggest wins of their regular season (Pats and Giants) were b/c of Flacco, their playoff wins were b/c of Flacco, and they are SB champs b/c of Flacco. He's elite. He's outplayed Brady in 2 of 3 playoff games (all 3 games were in NE), has outplayed Peyton Manning in another, and raped the 49ers defense in the SB. What QB has the playoff resume he has? I can think of 3 in today's game: Brady, E. Manning, and Rape. He has 4 more postseason wins than Rodgers and Brees with the same # of SB's. Look who he's lost to in the playoff's as well: Ben (x2), Brady, and Peyton. His team was never eliminated by Matt Hasselbeck, Colin Kaepernick, Tim Tebow, Jake Plummer, Mark Sanchez, Billy Volek, Alex Smith, David Garrard, or Rex Grossman either.

[Brunodf]

Brady
Brees
Rodgers

[JingleJangleJingle]

Yes, but nothing less than winning a Superbowl would put him in that class. Until then he is a joke.

it just seems a little weird to go from being a joke to elite in a season.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Dalton and luck will be elite within 2-4 years, griffin has a chance if he learns to slide and I think cam too if Carolina can build arous him and he grows the fuck up

Dalton was so bad in the playoffs I question if he'll ever be elite.

[HarlemHeat37]

Dalton is the most overrated QB in the NFL IMO..

I'd go:

Tier 1: Rodgers

Tier 2: Brady, Manning

Tier 3: Eli, Brees, Rothlisberger, Flacco

[Trill Clinton]

brady
rodgers
brees
p.manning

[Ghazi]

Elite should just be the top 5 QBs in the NFL. What is the definition of "elite" anyway?

1. Rodgers
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Brady
5. Big Ben

elite

[manufan10]

The Ravens made the playoffs and won the SB on the arm of Joe Flacco. This team has morphed into an offense-first squad too, no longer riding their defense to wins. The 2 biggest wins of their regular season (Pats and Giants) were b/c of Flacco, their playoff wins were b/c of Flacco, and they are SB champs b/c of Flacco. He's elite. He's outplayed Brady in 2 of 3 playoff games (all 3 games were in NE), has outplayed Peyton Manning in another, and raped the 49ers defense in the SB. What QB has the playoff resume he has? I can think of 3 in today's game: Brady, E. Manning, and Rape. He has 4 more postseason wins than Rodgers and Brees with the same # of SB's. Look who he's lost to in the playoff's as well: Ben (x2), Brady, and Peyton. His team was never eliminated by Matt Hasselbeck, Colin Kaepernick, Tim Tebow, Jake Plummer, Mark Sanchez, Billy Volek, Alex Smith, David Garrard, or Rex Grossman either.

DD with the goods.

[Shane27]

How the hell do so many of you have flacco as elite?

[Clipper Nation]

How the hell do so many of you have flacco as elite?

Because he is elite?

[Creepn]

How the hell do so many of you have flacco as elite?

Because DD says so.

Flacco got them fooled and he'll be laughing all the way to the bank. He's not going to another superbowl.

[Chinook]

Because DD says so.

Flacco got them fooled and he'll be laughing all the way to the bank. He's not ever going to a superbowl.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Because DD says so.

You're invited to prove otherwise--but you simply can't.

-Most road playoff wins in NFL history
-Not only beating elite QB's in the playoffs, but outplaying them as well
-Most wins as a starter since 2008 (when he came into the league)
-Tied the greatest playoff run by a QB in NFL history (Joe Montana, 1989)
-SB MVP

"{Teddy KGB Voice} It hurts, doesn't it?"

[FlaSpursFan]

Brady
Brees
Rodgers

Agreed except im boarderline willing to add in flacco depending on what I see next season.


I would like to add guys like peyton, eli, and ben but I would really just be lying to my self.

[irishock]

Gotta add Romo in there

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lolwe have another finfan. Gonna have fun toying with this new shitstain next season

[lefty]

For those who are more knowledgeable in Football than I am, which teams have won the SB with a shitty QB ?

[DeadlyDynasty]

2005 Steelers (Ben was not yet elite, and played like shit in that SB)
2002 Buccaneers
2000 Ravens
1990 Giants

[FlaSpursFan]

:lolwe have another finfan. Gonna have fun toying with this new shitstain next season
My team may suck... But at least they are better than the shitty bills :p:

[lefty]

2005 Steelers (Ben was not yet elite, and played like shit in that SB)
2002 Buccaneers
2000 Ravens
1990 Giants

Thanks

[DeadlyDynasty]

To amend my list, Brad Johnson wasn't a shitty QB--he was mediocre but had a couple good seasons. Ben had a bad SB but played well at Cincy, Indy, and Denver in that playoff run--he was a big reason they got there in the first place. Dilfer and Hostetler were scrubs, though.

[Bill_Brasky]

You're invited to prove otherwise--but you simply can't.

-Most road playoff wins in NFL history
-Not only beating elite QB's in the playoffs, but outplaying them as well
-Most wins as a starter since 2008 (when he came into the league)
-Tied the greatest playoff run by a QB in NFL history (Joe Montana, 1989)
-SB MVP

"{Teddy KGB Voice} It hurts, doesn't it?"

I just posted this in the club but I'm bored and it's appropriate here too.

GoU7J_-Zfks

[Creepn]

I just posted this in the club but I'm bored and it's appropriate here too.

GoU7J_-Zfks

Is that supposed to be me symbolically putting a beatdown on DD?

[Creepn]

You're invited to prove otherwise--but you simply can't.

-Most road playoff wins in NFL history
-Not only beating elite QB's in the playoffs, but outplaying them as well
-Most wins as a starter since 2008 (when he came into the league)
-Tied the greatest playoff run by a QB in NFL history (Joe Montana, 1989)
-SB MVP

"{Teddy KGB Voice} It hurts, doesn't it?"

He was carried to achieve those things, just as Ray Lewis got the team to the SB. He beat a choker (peyton), an aging pussy (brady) that even the rookies mopped the floor with, and a rookie qb with his 10th start.

Brad Johnson looked impressive on paper even with a superbowl and is still not considered elite. Mark Sanchez won all of his away playoff games. Even the butt fumbler can achieve that pfff.

How bout his passer rating? Is he consistently over 90? I think not. Flacco had A fluke season by the power of Lewis.

[Clipper Nation]

Damn, Creepn is salty mad that Kaepernick choked :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

He was carried to achieve those things, just as Ray Lewis got the team to the SB. He beat a choker (peyton), an aging pussy (brady) that even the rookies mopped the floor with, and a rookie qb with his 10th start.

Brad Johnson looked impressive on paper even with a superbowl and is still not considered elite. Mark Sanchez won all of his away playoff games. Even the butt fumbler can achieve that pfff.

How bout his passer rating? Is he consistently over 90? I think not. Flacco had A fluke season by the power of Lewis.

4 straight 100+ ratings in the playoffs is a fluke? What other QB's have done that?:lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao calling Kaepernick a rookie QB to help your argument
:lmao revisionist history

[Creepn]

:lmao calling Kaepernick a rookie QB to help your argument
:lmao revisionist history

You wanna make a bet that Joe Flacco doesn't win another superbowl?

Think about it now. Flacco's biggest threat is the deep ball. Think defenses aren't going to adjust to that?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You wanna make a bet that Joe Flacco doesn't win another superbowl?

Think about it now. Flacco's biggest threat is the deep ball. Think defenses aren't going to adjust to that?

Do you wanna make a bet Kaepernick wasn't a rookie this year?

That would also be a weird bet, seeing that Joe Flacco has probably 10 or so more years before he retires. I doubt this site will be around then :lol

Flacco's biggest threat is his deep ball, but he's gotten a lot better at intermediate and short routes. It's not like he's Mike Vick and only knows how to rifle the ball downfield. He's a dropped Lee Evans pass away from being in two straight superbowls, and his regular season numbers the last 4 years have all been decent to good. If his team lets him air it out more on 1st and 2nd down this year (which it's going to have to with the defense losing Ray and other key players), he'll put up 30+ touchdowns and 4000+ passing yards.

[jjktkk]

1. Rodgers
2. E. Manning
3. Brady
4. Flacco
5. Roethlisberger
6. P. Manning

[Creepn]

4 straight 100+ ratings in the playoffs is a fluke? What other QB's have done that?:lol

I bet you was one of those guys slobbing over Fitzpatrick and screaming "MVP!" when he had those 4 straight games with 100+ ratings huh? How are the bills?

[Trill Clinton]

i can name 5, maybe 7 qb's better than flacco.

the elite word is being tossed around too loosely.

he's good but not elite.

[Creepn]

It's like a record scratching at the end when you say, "Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Flacco..."

[Chinook]

I bet you was one of those guys slobbing over Fitzpatrick and screaming "MVP!" when he had those 4 straight games with 100+ ratings huh? How are the bills?

If Fitzpatrick had done that en route to winning the Super Bowl, I don't think any Bills fans have a problem with screaming "MVP!" especially if he had actually won an MVP.

[Chinook]

i can name 5, maybe 7 qb's better than flacco.

the elite word is being tossed around too loosely.

he's good but not elite.

Name them. I don't see a legitimate argument for any more than three or so. Since the NFL changes so much, I don't see the merit in QB rankings, anyway.

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lolthis wigga is still melting down from tbe Superbowl. "I bet you he doesnt win another one, thatll support my argument!!!". How many do Rodgers, Brees, Peyton Manning, and every black QB (combined)have? Way to go out on a limb there! I have a counterbet for you: i bet you 10 grand the sun comes up tomorrow. Deal?

[DeadlyDynasty]

I bet you was one of those guys slobbing over Fitzpatrick and screaming "MVP!" when he had those 4 straight games with 100+ ratings huh? How are the bills?

I've never called or considered Fitz elite, but nice try moving the goalposts

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

i can name 5, maybe 7 qb's better than flacco.

the elite word is being tossed around too loosely.

he's good but not elite.
I think the top 4 are easily Brady, Manning, Rogers and Brees, with Rodgers being the clearcut #1, Brady and Manning neck and neck, then Brees at #4. The following 4 are imo Flacco, E. Manning, Big Rape and Matt Ryan in that order, so I'd rank him 5th overall but not THAT much better than the #8 guy. Next season will basically say which side of this argument is right.

[Trill Clinton]

Name them. I don't see a legitimate argument for any more than three or so. Since the NFL changes so much, I don't see the merit in QB rankings, anyway.

IA with the bold but here is my list from earlier in the thread:


brady
rodgers
brees
p.manning

that's 4 who i think are elite, i would also put ruthlessburger, eli and matt ryan over flacco.

[Trill Clinton]

I think the top 4 are easily Brady, Manning, Rogers and Brees, with Rodgers being the clearcut #1, Brady and Manning neck and neck, then Brees at #4. The following 4 are imo Flacco, E. Manning, Big Rape and Matt Ryan in that order, so I'd rank him 5th overall but not THAT much better than the #8 guy. Next season will basically say which side of this argument is right.


i just read this after responding to chinook.

i agree that after the top 4, 5-10 are interchangable.

i'm not saying flacco is a scrub or he sucks, i just don't think he's elite, yet.

[DeadlyDynasty]

If you think Matt Ryan is better than Flacco then i don't know what to tell you. Nobody does less with more in the postseason

[Clipper Nation]

It's like a record scratching at the end when you say, "Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Flacco..."

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/932/289/hi-res-159801817_display_image.jpg?1359221888

http://i.imgur.com/YepxSID.jpg

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2013/01/12/manning-loss-x-large.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0203/nfl_u_flaccomvp_gb1_400.jpg

[Creepn]

I would take Andrew Luck over Flacco.

[Chinook]

IA with the bold but here is my list from earlier in the thread:



that's 4 who i think are elite, i would also put ruthlessburger, eli and matt ryan over flacco.

Thanks. Looking at that list makes me even more convinced that the word elite should be banned from sports talk. Those players are taking up about 16 percent of their teams' caps. And they all sat at home and watched an "inferior" player with a better overall team win it all. And now that inferior player wants to be paid even more than the others, at the cost of his team. Does he think he's win and make $20 Million a year?

Probably, and that's what's messed up about today's NFL. The only quarterback who's shown he can literally drag a terrible team to the playoffs consistently is Manning (my definition of elite). And now it's clear he's not elite anymore, either. These players are costing their teams the chance to win a ring, if you ask me.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Plenty of players have shown they can drag shitty teams to the playoffs if that's what you're saying, that's not exclusive to Manning at all. The Packers were a horrible team this year outside of Rodgers.

[O.J. Simpson]

Gotta add Romo in there
Hard to tell when you're being jokingly dumb or seriously dumb.

[Chinook]

Plenty of players have shown they can drag shitty teams to the playoffs if that's what you're saying, that's not exclusive to Manning at all. The Packers were a horrible team this year outside of Rodgers.

See, people say that kind of stuff all the time, and it's usually not true. Rodgers had plenty of good weapons to throw to, and there's no reason to think that another quarterback (like Flynn) could have stepped in and avoided a 1-15 season had they gotten the chance. That's not to say Rodgers isn't a top quarterback. It's just to say that his performance this season was not elite by the metric I laid out.

It's clear that Manning WAS the Colts during his final years there. That's why Polian got fired. The Packers aren't the same way at all. They have good players on both sides of the ball, and when they won their ring, their defense was one of the top units in the league at takeaways. We'll see what a bad Packers team really looks like when they have to start letting their players go so they can give Rodgers $20+ Million a year.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

when they won their ring, their defense was one of the top units in the league at takeaways.

When the Colts won a ring they had a top defensive unit during the playoffs, so idk why that's relevant. Both Rodgers and Manning have carried bad defenses to the playoffs and lost. So has Brady and Brees for that matter, it's something a handful of QBs are capable of doing, especially in the modern era NFL that's dominated by passing offenses.

There's plenty of reason to think Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky (since those were the starters for the 2011 Colts you're using to justify your argument) would have had a 3-13 or worse season if they stepped in for Rodgers. They had no running game to speak of and an offensive line that allowed more sacks than every team other than the Cardinals, while their top receivers were Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, and James Jones. Three solid receivers who run good routes, but none of which are play makers, and none of which sniff 1,000 yards with a mediocre QB. You're kidding yourself if you think the Packers' offense would not have been a league bottom feeder in every offensive category with Painter and Orlovsky at QB, or Matt Flynn for that matter.

[Chinook]

When the Colts won a ring they had a top defensive unit during the playoffs, so idk why that's relevant. Both Rodgers and Manning have carried bad defenses to the playoffs and lost. So has Brady and Brees for that matter, it's something a handful of QBs are capable of doing, especially in the modern era NFL that's dominated by passing offenses.

((This was a really long post that can be summarized in a few sentences.))

The Colts were mediocre outside of their edge-rushers. But the team came together that year, which is what I was saying about winning teams in general.

Manning had more responsibility than the other top QBs.

Painter and Orlovsky suck more than Flynn.

A good system can work just as well as having top players.

Teams that fail just because they don't have a certain quarterback were built poorly from the start.

Regular-season performance is a terrible thing to use to measure elite status.

[Chinook]

My main issue is this:

The whole point of having this elite label is so people can say that if you have a quarterback who fits the label, then you are a contender for a Super Bowl (and if you don't, you're not). For the last five years, supposed non-elite QBs have won championships, forcing people to expand their elite lists to the point that you have John Clayton putting 12 players in that category (more this year). In conjunction with this, we've seen quarterback salaries balloon because of brinkmanship among agents trying to get "elite" money. And the teams are letting them do it, because they want to keep their elite player so they can remain a contender. This has been causing huge talent drains for teams with top-dollar passers, hurting them against up-and-coming teams with more-even salary distributions.

Ironically, the idea that certain quarterbacks are needed to win Super Bowls is keeping the teams who have those quarterbacks from winning Super Bowls.

[LnGrrrR]

If Fitzpatrick had done that en route to winning the Super Bowl, I don't think any Bills fans have a problem with screaming "MVP!" especially if he had actually won an MVP.

:lmao

[Blake]

I think elite means playing at a hall of fame level for an extended amount of time.

Peyton
Brady
Brees
Rodgers

just when I'm ready to call Eli elite, he seems to fizzle. I think he needs an MVP to make him elite.

Joe Flacco is in a similar boat, but has farther to go than Eli.

Matt Ryan, Schaub even farther.

lol Romo's name in this thread

[TIMMYtoZO]

IA with the bold but here is my list from earlier in the thread:



that's 4 who i think are elite, i would also put ruthlessburger, eli and matt ryan over flacco.

:lmao Matt Ryan aka the other Tony Romo better than Flacco?

[Trill Clinton]

:lmao Matt Ryan aka the other Tony Romo better than Flacco?

yes, him.

[chunticakes]

lol you boys still mad at half breed losing the super bowl huh?

[Trill Clinton]

uhh no.

i think ya'll took that black qb shit far more serious than i did lol.

i just don't think he is elite.

[Halberto]

Why do people compare QB's by basing their head-to-head record? The QB's face the others defense.... it's not like a one on one basketball game.

[DAF86]

Rodgers
Manning
Brady
Brees

That's it.

[DeadlyDynasty]

yes, him.

Bad take, Trill. Really bad.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Also, the only argument that can be made against Flacco at this point (as evidenced by this thread) is that he's not a shameless stat-padder like Drew Brees.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Why do people compare QB's by basing their head-to-head record? The QB's face the others defense.... it's not like a one on one basketball game.

Because it's the most important and impactful position in all of sports by a country mile--and you're judged by how well you perform against your peers.

[DBryant88]

Peyton, A-rodgers

[Trill Clinton]

Bad take, Trill. Really bad.

*shrugs*

sorry fam, i think Ryan is better.

yes i know ryan is 1-4 in playoffs, but look at the 4 teams they lost to.

meanwhile, before this year, flacco beat scrub opponents and lost to the afc big dawgs.

flacco had a great defense, solid receivers and a good running back to help carry him.

i'd put him and matt ryan in the same class, neither is top tier yet.

i don't think its a reach choosing ryan over flacco at all. neither is that much better than the other.

[Pelicans78]

Matt Ryan is better than Flacco. Ryan plays with a strong collection of skilled players and a solid defense yet can't get it done. Flacco was the biggest for the Ravens success this postseason. Ryan isn't capable of doing what Flacco did.

[Chinook]

*shrugs*

sorry fam, i think Ryan is better.

yes i know ryan is 1-4 in playoffs, but look at the 4 teams they lost to.

meanwhile, before this year, flacco beat scrub opponents and lost to the afc big dawgs.

flacco had a great defense, solid receivers and a good running back to help carry him.

i'd put him and matt ryan in the same class, neither is top tier yet.

i don't think its a reach choosing ryan over flacco at all. neither is that much better than the other.

That's a dubious argument. Both Flacco and Ryan have been eliminated each year by the teams that have gone on to win their conference. You can't excuse Ryan for losing to good competition while arguing Flacco couldn't beat good teams. The fact that Ryan has missed the playoffs makes it even harder to see how his record can be excused. At best, you could say they were about even in the playoffs.

Until this year, where Flacco beat all the big dogs by having a historical performance while Ryan's team couldn't keep two leads in a row thanks in large part to his own turnovers. Flacco also accomplished this with Rice being so ineffective that his backup outplayed him, and the Ravens' defense setting a record for the most yards given up in a post-season. I don't know where you get the idea that Flacco was carried to anything.

In my opinion, the comparison between the two is not close and hasn't been since their sophomore years. If their draft ranks were switched, no one would be even trying to make this argument.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That's a dubious argument. Both Flacco and Ryan have been eliminated each year by the teams that have gone on to win their conference. You can't excuse Ryan for losing to good competition while arguing Flacco couldn't beat good teams.
When you're butthurt about a mulatto losing the superbowl and have an agenda to your argument, sure you can!

[Trill Clinton]

stop it.

when you say flacco is elite and equal to p manning and brady then i take your opinion with a grain of salt.

thats a reach.

not butthurt at all.

[Trill Clinton]

That's a dubious argument. Both Flacco and Ryan have been eliminated each year by the teams that have gone on to win their conference. You can't excuse Ryan for losing to good competition while arguing Flacco couldn't beat good teams. The fact that Ryan has missed the playoffs makes it even harder to see how his record can be excused. At best, you could say they were about even in the playoffs.

Until this year, where Flacco beat all the big dogs by having a historical performance while Ryan's team couldn't keep two leads in a row thanks in large part to his own turnovers. Flacco also accomplished this with Rice being so ineffective that his backup outplayed him, and the Ravens' defense setting a record for the most yards given up in a post-season. I don't know where you get the idea that Flacco was carried to anything.

In my opinion, the comparison between the two is not close and hasn't been since their sophomore years. If their draft ranks were switched, no one would be even trying to make this argument.

not to derail the thread by continuing this argument but i respect your opinion and i like i said, to me, i don't see a a huge difference in the two.

flacco has a better team and has always had a better team. people were going for flacco's neck every year for not getting to the superbowl with the teams and defenses he was blessed with.

but going back to the original question of the elite qb's, of course those who think flacco is elite would say he's better than ryan lol.

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lolFlacco's had better teams? NOBODY has the offensive toys that Ryan has to play with. Gonzo, JJ, Roddy White, etc. Up until the last year and a half Turner was killing it too (even though Jacquizz Rodgers has picked up the load nicely since then). Flacco has 4 playoff losses: Big Ben x2, Brady, and P. Manning--all on the road. 3 of Ryan's 4 playoff losses came at HOME. By saying Ryan is better than Flacco you fully admit to putting all your stock in stat-padding losers.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Matt Ryan also hasn't been cursed with Cam Cameron as the offensive coordinator for basically his entire career.

[Trill Clinton]

ryan has weapons but no defense.

i'd even say the ravens wr's are as good or better than the falcons.

again, lets not derail the thread.

flacco is not an elite qb. i think thats a bigger reach than me saying ryan is better to be quite honest with you.

[Pelicans78]

Also, the only argument that can be made against Flacco at this point (as evidenced by this thread) is that he's not a shameless stat-padder like Drew Brees.

I don't think Flacco could have led the Saints to the Super Bowl title like Brees did in 2009.

[DeadlyDynasty]

i'd even say the ravens wr's are as good or better than the falcons.


:lmaojust stop it, fam

[Pelicans78]

ryan has weapons but no defense.

i'd even say the ravens wr's are as good or better than the falcons.

again, lets not derail the thread.

flacco is not an elite qb. i think thats a bigger reach than me saying ryan is better to be quite honest with you.

Ryan has way more talent to work with compared to Flacco. The Falcons defense isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's not like the Ravens had a strong defense this season. Not like in years past. But the Falcons have way more skilled pieces. I do admit Flacco has a much better o-line, but the Falcons offense isn't as efficient as it should with the weapons they have and Ryan is a big reason why. He's not consistent in games. Has a great quarter or two and then will be erratic during certain parts of the game.

[Trill Clinton]

then why are we comparing flacco to ryan and not brees, p manning and rodgers?

there is no comparison.

flacco and ryan are compared because they're in the same boat.

non elite but good qb's.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

i'd even say the ravens wr's are as good or better than the falcons.
:lmao


flacco is not an elite qb. i think thats a bigger reach than me saying ryan is better to be quite honest with you.
So you're admitting that the opinion Ryan > Flacco was a reach?

[Trill Clinton]

:lmaojust stop it, fam

lol aye i fucks with bolden.

that nigga bailed flacco out quite a few times this year.

i'd take julio over him but not that roddy.

[Pelicans78]

But Flacco surpassed Ryan with what he's done in the playoffs. If Flacco is not elite, which I wouldn't rank him with the elites, he's at least very good and proven more than Ryan.

[Trill Clinton]

:lmao


So you're admitting that the opinion Ryan > Flacco was a reach?

nope.

you think its a reach but i don't.

i do think saying flacoo is elite is a reach. which is why he's being compared to ryan and there are no comparisons to the true elite qb's.

cuz he's not elite.

[Trill Clinton]

But Flacco surpassed Ryan with what he's done in the playoffs. If Flacco is not elite, which I wouldn't rank him with the elites, he's at least very good


i agree and so is ryan.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I don't think Flacco could have led the Saints to the Super Bowl title like Brees did in 2009.

Probably not (he was only an NFL soph at that point), but his playoff run is kind of overrated. Arizona=overmatched opponent, Warner KO'd. Minnesota=15 AP fumbles, Favre going Favre in the clutch. SB=2 biggest plays of the game were the onsides kick and TP's pick-6.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Ryan vs. Flacco is just as much about Ryan as it is Flacco. His first 3 career playoff games were complete abortions, and he choked away a significant lead in both the Seattle game and the San Fran game. A complete collapse by Seattle's defense the last 30 seconds of the game is the only reason why Matt Ryan isn't still considered a huge choker by the media.

Atlant'a defense was also 5th in the NFL in points allowed this season. It wasn't an "elite" defense, but it was easily a top 10 defense.

[Trill Clinton]

falcons also played in a poor division so the defensive numbers are inflated.

their defense is average at best.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lol aye i fucks with bolden.

that nigga bailed flacco out quite a few times this year.

i'd take julio over him but not that roddy.

Julio > Boldin
Roddy > Torrey Smith
Tony Gonzalez > Pitta and Dickson combined

It's not even a close call.

[Pelicans78]

i agree and so is ryan.

I've seen a lot of Ryan being a Saints fan and I don't think he's very good at all. He has alot of help with the WRs and Gonzales at TE and the Falcons defense isn't that bad at all and has been better than their offense in the regular season the past two seasons. Ryan can be really inconsistent during the game, mostly because he's so erratic in the pocket at times. He gets alot of help from his WRs and TE as they constantly bail him out. He really hasn't gotten better the last few seasons either. He's a good QB like Romo, but not very good and Romo's defense has been alot worse than what the Falcons have. The Ravens defense hasn't been that great since the 2010 season.

[Pelicans78]

falcons also played in a poor division so the defensive numbers are inflated.

their defense is average at best.

They only play 6 games in their division and two of those were against the Saints offense. Four out of the remaining 12 games were against divisional opponents.

[Trill Clinton]

Julio > Boldin
Roddy > Torrey Smith
Tony Gonzalez > Pitta and Dickson combined

It's not even a close call.

i'd take bolden in the playoffs over those roddy but not juilo.

and like i said, bolden saved flacco's ass and made some huge catches in the playoffs.

he is just a flat out beast and i admire that. which is why i hold him in such high regard.

ravens better find some way to keep him.

[Riddler]

Flacco is elite. He was a missed field goal from the super bowl or something like that the year before and beat Brady AND Manning on the road. Elite shit.

[DeadlyDynasty]

7/10 trolljob, trill:tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Flacco is elite. He was a missed field goal from the super bowl or something like that the year before and beat Brady AND Manning on the road. Elite shit.

he was a dropped Lee Evans pass away from winning and a missed FG away from OT. The Lee Evans touchdown was a perfectly thrown ball Evans had no excuses for dropping.

It's certainly not a pass Roddy White or Julio Jones would drop.

[Trill Clinton]

I've seen a lot of Ryan being a Saints fan and I don't think he's very good at all. He has alot of help with the WRs and Gonzales at TE and the Falcons defense isn't that bad at all and has been better than their offense in the regular season the past two seasons. Ryan can be really inconsistent during the game, mostly because he's so erratic in the pocket at times. He gets alot of help from his WRs and TE as they constantly bail him out. He really hasn't gotten better the last few seasons either. He's a good QB like Romo, but not very good and Romo's defense has been alot worse than what the Falcons have. The Ravens defense hasn't been that great since the 2010 season.


They only play 6 games in their division and two of those were against the Saints offense. Four out of the remaining 12 games were against divisional opponents.

you don't think he's that good at all?

well you do have brees as your qb so you have the bar set high as far what you expect from your qb.

i think ryan and flacco are very similar.

if ryan wins a superbowl then we'd be arguing whether or not he is elite when he isn't.

like i said earlier, the elite tag is clouding peoples judgements. they give a person that title and they have to defend it.

[Chinook]

i'd take bolden in the playoffs over those roddy but not juilo.

and like i said, bolden saved flacco's ass and made some huge catches in the playoffs.

he is just a flat out beast and i admire that. which is why i hold him in such high regard.

ravens better find some way to keep him.

Jones "saved Flacco's ass" not Boldin. Flacco's throws to Boldin were planned to be high so that only he could go up and get them. Some of the passes on which Boldin made those epic catches would have even been thrown to another player. In Jones' case, Flacco just threw the ball up there, and Jones managed to keep track of it when defenders couldn't.

Boldin's much better than people give him credit for. Some Ravens fans think he wouldn't even make (let alone start on) most teams in the league. He's definitely a great player, but Baltimore doesn't have the offense that Atlanta had, and their defense was worse in most situations.

[Trill Clinton]

7/10 trolljob, trill:tu

preciate it fam.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Boldin's much better than people give him credit for. Some Ravens fans think he wouldn't even make (let alone start on) most teams in the league.

That makes absolutely no sense when he's had 1,000+ yard seasons with Josh McCown/Matt Leinart throwing him the ball :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

if ryan wins a superbowl then we'd be arguing whether or not he is elite when he isn't.

yeah and if my aunt had a cock she'd be my uncle.

[Trill Clinton]

Jones "saved Flacco's ass" not Boldin. Flacco's throws to Boldin were planned to be high so that only he could go up and get them. Some of the passes on which Boldin made those epic catches would have even been thrown to another player. In Jones' case, Flacco just threw the ball up there, and Jones managed to keep track of it when defenders couldn't.

Boldin's much better than people give him credit for. Some Ravens fans think he wouldn't even make (let alone start on) most teams in the league. He's definitely a great player, but Baltimore doesn't have the offense that Atlanta had, and their defense was worse in most situations.

oh i think jones should have been mvp but thats another thread.

those passes to bolden could have gone to other players but they didn't for a reason.

bolden is that dude.

he is a bully on the field and strong as an ox.

when he caught that td pass in the back of the endzone and pointed and laughed at the db on the ground i stood up and applauded.

you guys need bolden.

i'd trade miles austin for him.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Why do you keep spelling Boldin's name wrong? If you wanna glorify someone and use him as part of your agenda spell his name right.

[Chinook]

That makes absolutely no sense when he's had 1,000+ yard seasons with Josh McCown/Matt Leinart throwing him the ball :lol

That's why I don't really talk to other Ravens fans. They think every one of Green Bay's wideouts would be a number one on 25 other teams.

[Bill_Brasky]

Is that supposed to be me symbolically putting a beatdown on DD?

No, he's the black guy. Quit being racist.

[Trill Clinton]

Why do you keep spelling Boldin's name wrong? If you wanna glorify someone and use him as part of your agenda spell his name right.

doing it on purpose

[Chinook]

oh i think jones should have been mvp but thats another thread.

those passes to bolden could have gone to other players but they didn't for a reason.

bolden is that dude.

he is a bully on the field and strong as an ox.

when he caught that td pass in the back of the endzone and pointed and laughed at the db on the ground i stood up and applauded.

you guys need bolden.

i'd trade miles austin for him.

I agree that Boldin is important. I'm just saying don't assume Flacco was throwing bad passes that Q happened to catch. Those were designed routes that the Ravens have been working on since their first playoff game against New England.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That's why I don't really talk to other Ravens fans. They think every one of Green Bay's wideouts would be a number one on 25 other teams.

Green Bay's group of wideouts last year were so overrated :lol. Without a healthy Greg Jennings that group is as average as it gets.

[Bill_Brasky]

then why are we comparing flacco to ryan and not brees, p manning and rodgers?

there is no comparison.

flacco and ryan are compared because they're in the same boat.

non elite but good qb's.

The only person making that comparison is you, and everyone destroyed it.

[FkLA]

Flacco was 25th in total QBR. 12th in passer rating. 14th in passing yards. 19th in completion percentage. 16th in yards per game. 22 TDs and 10 INTs. This is like when Dirk won the title in 2011 and people suddenly completely forgot his chokejobs and playoff failures. Flacco absolutely carried the Ravens to the Super Bowl, he had an elite postseason...but part of being an elite QB is consistency. Up until his last four games noone other than himself thought of him as an elite QB. If he keeps doing this then he deserves to be up there, but its dumb to hand him that distinction already imo.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Flacco was 25th in total QBR. 12th in passer rating. 14th in passing yards. 19th in completion percentage. 16th in yards per game. 22 TDs and 10 INTs. This is like when Dirk won the title in 2011 and people suddenly completely forgot his chokejobs and playoff failures. Flacco absolutely carried the Ravens to the Super Bowl, he had an elite postseason...but part of being an elite QB is consistency. Up until his last four games noone other than himself thought of him as an elite QB. If he keeps doing this then he deserves to be up there, but its dumb to hand him that distinction already imo.

He was great last postseason as well. The Ravens struggled this regular season, but he went HAM in their 2 biggest/most important games (NE, NYG). Last year in the regular season he beat every good team he faced (and outplayed his counterpart). Dude just wins. After the greatest postseason in NFL history, he's effectively shut everybody up. If he has another 22 and 10 season next year people won't be satisfied. Nature of the beast--people love stat whores

[FkLA]

He was great last postseason as well. The Ravens struggled this regular season, but he went HAM in their 2 biggest/most important games (NE, NYG). Last year in the regular season he beat every good team he faced (and outplayed his counterpart). Dude just wins. After the greatest postseason in NFL history, he's effectively shut everybody up. If he has another 22 and 10 season next year people won't be satisfied. Nature of the beast--people love stat whores

Exactly, the dude lacks consistency. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers who are widely considered the Top 4 bring it all season...alot of QBs can have good-great stretches but the best do it on a way more consistent basis. Thats not stat whoring, thats what separates them from everyone else. Flacco has the tools to be up there but he needs play at this years postseason level alot more often than he has in the past.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Exactly, the dude lacks consistency. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers who are widely considered the Top 4 bring it all season...alot of QBs can have good-great stretches but the best do it on a way more consistent basis. Thats not stat whoring

What does Drew Brees do on a consistent basis that doesn't consist of stat-whoring? His teams missed the playoffs in 3 of his years there, and he's lost to Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, and Matt Hasselbeck (2010 version, not 2005) in the playoffs. I'm not saying Flacco is better than Brees--I just want to know what he does on a consistent basis besides stat-whoring and losing to underwhelming QB's in the playoffs. Also, "good stretch" is disingenuous. It was (tied with 1989 Joe Montana) the GREATEST postseason in NFL history--beating the NFL's 3 best teams in the process. He also killed it last year in the PO too--so he's consistently good in the playoffs (which is all that matters)

[FkLA]

What does Drew Brees do on a consistent basis that doesn't consist of stat-whoring? His teams missed the playoffs in 3 of his years there, and he's lost to Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, and Matt Hasselbeck (2010 version, not 2005) in the playoffs. I'm not saying Flacco is better than Brees--I just want to know what he does on a consistent basis besides stat-whoring and losing to underwhelming QB's in the playoffs. Also, "good stretch" is disingenuous. It was (tied with 1989 Joe Montana) the GREATEST postseason in NFL history--beating the NFL's 3 best teams in the process. He also killed it last year in the PO too--so he's consistently good in the playoffs (which is all that matters)

Brees has had historically bad defenses tbh. Rodgers is near the top of pretty much all statistical categories and I dont think you or anyone would call him a stat whore. And Flacco was great, Im not trying to undersell what he did this postseason...but at the same time lets not act like the Flacco we saw this postseason is the Flacco we always see. Noone would question whether he belonged in the elite group if that was the case.

[BUMP]

This is like when Dirk won the title in 2011 and people suddenly completely forgot his chokejobs and playoff failures.

Can't really compare Flacco to Dirk. Flacco was mediocre-good before this season whereas Dirk had actually played well in previous playoffs, won an MVP, and was a 4 time NBA first teamer prior to winning a title.

[J.T.]

Flacco had a legit year. Even before the Colts playoff game, I thought the Colts would win it because of Flacco. In reality, what kept the Colts in the game was the Ravens defense. They gave up a ton of yards, the Colts just couldn't convert their drives into points. The Colts gained well over 400 yards of offense and lost. I actually thought the Ravens defense played really bad overall in the postseason. They came up with a few big plays (the Manning OT interception being the biggest) but for as much as the Ravens hang their hat on playing stout D, Joe Flacco won them this Super Bowl by himself. Remember the Manning OT pick doesn't happen because the Broncos win in regulation unless Flacco throws that bomb. He actually scored with less than 1:30 on the clock in BOTH halves of that game. It was a pretty clutch run and if you still hate on Flacco after that, all I can say is haters gonna hate.

Eli Manning does not light up the regular season the way his brother, Brady, Rodgers and Brees do but do you want to face him in the playoffs? Nope. The elite QB's make their money in the playoffs. A quarterback who is consistently elite in both the regular season and playoffs is extremely rare. What you want from your QB is someone who plays their best when the game is on the line.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Flacco had a legit year. Even before the Colts playoff game, I thought the Colts would win it because of Flacco. In reality, what kept the Colts in the game was the Ravens defense. They gave up a ton of yards, the Colts just couldn't convert their drives into points. The Colts gained well over 400 yards of offense and lost. I actually thought the Ravens defense played really bad overall in the postseason. They came up with a few big plays (the Manning OT interception being the biggest) but for as much as the Ravens hang their hat on playing stout D, Joe Flacco won them this Super Bowl by himself. Remember the Manning OT pick doesn't happen because the Broncos win in regulation unless Flacco throws that bomb. He actually scored with less than 1:30 on the clock in BOTH halves of that game. It was a pretty clutch run and if you still hate on Flacco after that, all I can say is haters gonna hate.

Eli Manning does not light up the regular season the way his brother, Brady, Rodgers and Brees do but do you want to face him in the playoffs? Nope. The elite QB's make their money in the playoffs. A quarterback who is consistently elite in both the regular season and playoffs is extremely rare. What you want from your QB is someone who plays their best when the game is on the line./thread

[TIMMYtoZO]

/thread

[Pelicans78]

What does Drew Brees do on a consistent basis that doesn't consist of stat-whoring? His teams missed the playoffs in 3 of his years there, and he's lost to Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, and Matt Hasselbeck (2010 version, not 2005) in the playoffs. I'm not saying Flacco is better than Brees--I just want to know what he does on a consistent basis besides stat-whoring and losing to underwhelming QB's in the playoffs. Also, "good stretch" is disingenuous. It was (tied with 1989 Joe Montana) the GREATEST postseason in NFL history--beating the NFL's 3 best teams in the process. He also killed it last year in the PO too--so he's consistently good in the playoffs (which is all that matters)

Pretty weak argument on your part especially when trying to compare Brees and Flacco.

Is it Brees' fault he plays with a historically bad defense? Last season Brees put up 32 points and almost 500 yards at the best defense in the league before the defense let the team down. If the defense holds on, the Saints probably go to the Super Bowl since they always have success against the Giants. The year before that, Brees puts up 36 at Seattle yet the shitty defense let up 41 points. The year before that, Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning while throwing 9 TDs and 0 picks. Brees isn't gifted with the height of most elite QBs, but he's still elite and he's much better than Flacco. Its not like he plays with an elite o-line, RBs, WRs or defense.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Pretty weak argument on your part especially when trying to compare Brees and Flacco.

Is it Brees' fault he plays with a historically bad defense? Last season Brees put up 32 points and almost 500 yards at the best defense in the league before the defense let the team down. If the defense holds on, the Saints probably go to the Super Bowl since they always have success against the Giants. The year before that, Brees puts up 36 at Seattle yet the shitty defense let up 41 points. The year before that, Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning while throwing 9 TDs and 0 picks. Brees isn't gifted with the height of most elite QBs, but he's still elite and he's much better than Flacco. Its not like he plays with an elite o-line, RBs, WRs or defense.

What was elite about Baltimore's defense, O-line, or receivers this year?

[2centsworth]

Elite = Add them to ANY TEAM (like the Jets or Dolphins) and that team instantly becomes a Super Bowl Contender.

With that definition in mind, my list would be and in no particular order:

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Peyton
4. Big Ben
5. Brees

That's it for now.

Potential Future Elite: Flacco, Ryan, Luck, RGIII, Kaepernick (I'm sure I'm missing a few names)

[Pelicans78]

What was elite about Baltimore's defense, O-line, or receivers this year?

Baltimore's o-line was very good especially with Mckinnie at LT and Oher at RT, two guys who would easily start on the Saints. Both Boldin and Smith are better than any WRs the Saints have even in the 2009 Super Bowl season. Rice is much better than any of the Saints RBs. I agree the Ravens defense wasn't great this year. Still, better pieces than what Brees has been dealt with the Saints. Brees had better talent around him in San Diego than he's had in NOLA. At least he had Payton who's a much better coach now than he was his first couple of years with the Saints.

[Blake]

Eli Manning does not light up the regular season the way his brother, Brady, Rodgers and Brees do but do you want to face him in the playoffs? Nope. The elite QB's make their money in the playoffs. A quarterback who is consistently elite in both the regular season and playoffs is extremely rare. What you want from your QB is someone who plays their best when the game is on the line.

That's an interesting take. I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd say Peyton made his money off the regular season.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Baltimore's o-line was very good especially with Mckinnie at LT and Oher at RT.

That was the combo they had for precisely 4 games this season--their playoff run. Imagine what Flacco's stats were had he played that o-line all season? Also, way to sell your entire team up the river to prop up Brees. You act like the Saints weapons are dogshit, when they have far and away the most talented player on either teams' offense: Jimmy Graham. Saints also had the #1 rushing attack last season iirc, with a bunch of Probowl lineman too. I know Nicks left, but lets try not to act like he's been saddled with crappy offensive personnel. Defense, yes no doubt--Brees has had no help outside of the TO-producing machine in 2009. Brees is better than Flacco, that's not what I'm arguing. I just have issues with idiots (not saying you) who just watched the greatest postseason run in playoff history sticking their noses up at it b/c he didn't throw enough garbage-time TD's in the regular season.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Another thing that's lost in all this is that he was offered 16 million/yr at the beginning of the season (very generous offer at the time), and he told his boss to go fuck himself, and that he'd be back for more.

[Lincoln]

Saints really had the number one running game last year? Damn

[DeadlyDynasty]

Saints really had the number one running game last year? Damn

By last year I mean the 2011-12 season.

[J.T.]

That's an interesting take. I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd say Peyton made his money off the regular season.

Peyton made most of his money off MasterCard. But yeah I see your point on him. I think the way NFL is in today's world... lots of media, Fantasy Football, gambling... fans kind of want those stat padding types of players regardless of whether they win championships, because ultimately there's still a shit load more NFL media for you to digest, and it's not like Peyton Manning losing in the playoffs eliminates you from being able to gamble on the next weekend's games. But my take's more from just a football fan point of view. You want the best out of your QB when the team absolutely has to win, and that's basically what any playoff game is when you boil it down. So, playoff dominance and rings = elite. You can throw 50 TDs and still lose the Super Bowl at 18-0. Stats don't mean shit.

[Lincoln]

By last year I mean the 2011-12 season.

I know, i figured the panthers were with newton deangelo williams and Stewart or some other team.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I know, i figured the panthers were with newton deangelo williams and Stewart or some other team.

Just checked, and you're right. New Orleans was leading the NFL through the first 10 weeks, then Tebow-time, Newton turning into a run-first QB halfway through the year, and others happened. They finished ahead of Baltimore though, and that was basically the point of contention between me and H78. Brees had a better rushing attack.

[FkLA]

Can't really compare Flacco to Dirk. Flacco was mediocre-good before this season whereas Dirk had actually played well in previous playoffs, won an MVP, and was a 4 time NBA first teamer prior to winning a title.

I dont disagree with that but I was referring more to the whole what have you done for me lately approach alot of people took for Dirk (and are now doing with Flacco). Dirk was suddenly the 2nd best PF of all-time and clearly better than KG even though for much of the 2000s it was all TD and KG as 1a and 1b when it came to the best PFs in the game.


Eli Manning does not light up the regular season the way his brother, Brady, Rodgers and Brees do but do you want to face him in the playoffs? Nope. The elite QB's make their money in the playoffs. A quarterback who is consistently elite in both the regular season and playoffs is extremely rare. What you want from your QB is someone who plays their best when the game is on the line.

Exactly, thats why those who do that are in a tier of their own. It makes no sense to give Flacco the same distinction as guys who put up monster numbers AND have won it all. Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, and Brees are at the top for me. Then its Big Ben and Eli because theyve won it all multiple times. Then its Flacco.

[8FOR!3]

Tony Romo, Jason Street, Johnny Football, and Matt Saracen.

[TIMMYtoZO]

Elite = Add them to ANY TEAM (like the Jets or Dolphins) and that team instantly becomes a Super Bowl Contender.

With that definition in mind, my list would be and in no particular order:

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Peyton
4. Big Ben
5. Brees

That's it for now.

Potential Future Elite: Flacco, Ryan, Luck, RGIII, Kaepernick (I'm sure I'm missing a few names)

:lol saying Matt "I am a playoff choker" Ryan could be elite and not even mentioning Eli Manning in any way

[Wes Welker]

I like Tom Braydy he mah best friend. He throws me lots of passes even whens i aint open! It sure is fun even if i drop a lot of em, except his high-falutin wife always be yellin at me when i drops sum.

[2centsworth]

:lol saying Matt "I am a playoff choker" Ryan could be elite and not even mentioning Eli Manning in any way

Eli doesn't meet my personal definition of elite. You can't add Eli to any team. Lots of QBs could have won with those Giants teams. Best D-Line I've ever seen.

Eli with the Jets would approach 50 ints.

Ryan is a potential elite, but not there yet. Lets see what his 4th year brings.

[monosylab1k]

Ryan is a potential elite, but not there yet. Lets see what his 4th year brings.

Matt Ryan is going into his sixth year.

[stretch]

Elite = Add them to ANY TEAM (like the Jets or Dolphins) and that team instantly becomes a Super Bowl Contender.

4. Big Ben



lol the steelers havent been a super bowl contender since they got raped by Green Bay

[Chinook]

Eli doesn't meet my personal definition of elite. You can't add Eli to any team. Lots of QBs could have won with those Giants teams. Best D-Line I've ever seen.

Eli with the Jets would approach 50 ints.

Ryan is a potential elite, but not there yet. Lets see what his 4th year brings.

I don't think there's a single quarterback you can add to any team to make them contenders. Brady on the Bucs is still a terrible team. Manning in Oakland probably doesn't make the playoffs. Brees and Rodgers wouldn't be favorites if they were on the Panthers or Jaguars. The quarterback position itself is getting overrated, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if none of the big four elites win another ring.

[monosylab1k]

I don't think there's a single quarterback you can add to any team to make them contenders. Brady on the Bucs is still a terrible team. Manning in Oakland probably doesn't make the playoffs. Brees and Rodgers wouldn't be favorites if they were on the Panthers or Jaguars. The quarterback position itself is getting overrated, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if none of the big four elites win another ring.

LOL this is idiotic. In the age of parity, with the talent so close, most of the time the only difference between a 6-10 team and a 10-6 team is quarterbacking and/or coaching. Replace Freeman with Brady/Manning/Rodgers and the Bucs win 10 games minimum. Very rarely do elite qb's play on bad teams because they're the one thing separating that team from being terrible. Meanwhile teams with average or weak qb's are the ones who lose every year or do the inconsistent 11-5 this year, 6-10 the next yoyo. 20-25 teams every year have playoff level talent, but only a few have the qb play to put them in the playoffs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

LOL this is idiotic. In the age of parity, with the talent so close, most of the time the only difference between a 6-10 team and a 10-6 team is quarterbacking and/or coaching. Replace Freeman with Brady/Manning/Rodgers and the Bucs win 10 games minimum. Very rarely do elite qb's play on bad teams because they're the one thing separating that team from being terrible. Meanwhile teams with average or weak qb's are the ones who lose every year or do the inconsistent 11-5 this year, 6-10 the next yoyo. 20-25 teams every year have playoff level talent, but only a few have the qb play to put them in the playoffs.
I do agree with him in the sense that teams with elite QBs have gotten totally complacent, New England and Green Bay being the two notable cases.

[stretch]

LOL this is idiotic. In the age of parity, with the talent so close, most of the time the only difference between a 6-10 team and a 10-6 team is quarterbacking and/or coaching. Replace Freeman with Brady/Manning/Rodgers and the Bucs win 10 games minimum. Very rarely do elite qb's play on bad teams because they're the one thing separating that team from being terrible. Meanwhile teams with average or weak qb's are the ones who lose every year or do the inconsistent 11-5 this year, 6-10 the next yoyo. 20-25 teams every year have playoff level talent, but only a few have the qb play to put them in the playoffs.

This.

Perfect example is the Broncos.

They went from 8-8 to 13-3. A 5 game difference. That's huge.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Or the Lions, where they go 11-5 the one season they get decent QB play but immediately fall apart if their QB doesn't throw for 5,000 yards and carry the offense.

[Creepn]

If you have to convince people that someone is elite then he's most likely not elite. Nobody has to convince me that Brady is elite. Nobody has to convince me that Rodgers is elite.

[Chinook]

LOL this is idiotic. In the age of parity, with the talent so close, most of the time the only difference between a 6-10 team and a 10-6 team is quarterbacking and/or coaching. Replace Freeman with Brady/Manning/Rodgers and the Bucs win 10 games minimum. Very rarely do elite qb's play on bad teams because they're the one thing separating that team from being terrible. Meanwhile teams with average or weak qb's are the ones who lose every year or do the inconsistent 11-5 this year, 6-10 the next yoyo. 20-25 teams every year have playoff level talent, but only a few have the qb play to put them in the playoffs.

First off, you don't even need a decent quarterback to make the playoffs. There's at least one team a year that makes it despite their quarterback. Is a team inconsistent with a bad quarterback? Often, yes, but that has a lot to do with other factors like coaching and general personnel inconsistency, too.

Decent quarterback play (and better, obviously) is a plus, for sure, and having a good quarterback CAN be the difference for some teams. The Vikings in 2009 were a great example of this, as well as the Titans of 2008. But I think that says more about the quality of the quarterbacks who were being replaced than it does about the need for elite talent. It's obvious that bad quarterback play can hold a team back, but a bad team is a bad team. The Broncos of 2011 were NOT a bad team, neither were the 2007 Titans nor the 2008 Vikings. They were ALL playoff teams the year before they got better quarterback play. I've yet to see an elite quarterback come in a take a truly subpar team anywhere.

And you bring up winning games in the regular season like that determines who's a contender. I'm of the mind that many playoff teams don't fit that description. It doesn't matter if the Brady Bucs make the playoffs. They wouldn't be able to beat more-complete teams like the 49ers or Packers of a couple of years ago. The Ravens were 13-3 in 2006, but I don't think they were really a contending team.

My stance is not that quarterback play doesn't matter. It's not that good quarterback play can't put a team over the top. It's that elite quarterback play doesn't trump all else. A team needs units that feed off each other well. That’s why the Ravens won this season. The offense could get needed scores when the defense got burned, while the defense prevented scores, especially after turnovers and gave the offense good field position.

[Chinook]

I do agree with him in the sense that teams with elite QBs have gotten totally complacent, New England and Green Bay being the two notable cases.

That's funny, because from my argument, I'd think those would be the two teams which could most withstand this elite craze right now. It's going to be terrible for the Packers when Rodgers' cap number doubles in a couple of years. And the Patriots should have the system to remain effective with cheap talent.

What do you mean by them getting complacent?

[Chinook]

This.

Perfect example is the Broncos.

They went from 8-8 to 13-3. A 5 game difference. That's huge.

It seems pretty clear that the 2011 Broncos were better than their record (and had the second-hardest SOS) while the 2012 Broncos were worse than theirs (easiest SOS). They both lost in the same round as well, so I'm not so sure that the example is that perfect. There are better ones, like the 2009 Vikings.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Who the fuck is this Chinook

Some chode with retarded ass takes who is lucky as hell that I broke my arm. If I ever see him I'll beat his ass at beer pong and then dominate him in shirtless wrestling for 9 hours.

[Chinook]

Some chode with retarded ass takes who is lucky as hell that I broke my arm. If I ever see him I'll beat his ass at beer pong and then dominate him in shirtless wrestling for 9 hours.

:lol

[2centsworth]

New Orleans was brutal before Brees. Omg Brady with Vjax, mwill and Dallas Clark.
elite QBs transform franchises.

[2centsworth]

If you have to convince people that someone is elite then he's most likely not elite. Nobody has to convince me that Brady is elite. Nobody has to convince me that Rodgers is elite.

This

[Chinook]

New Orleans was brutal before Brees. Omg Brady with Vjax, mwill and Dallas Clark.
elite QBs transform franchises.

Jackson was a nice addition. Him, Williams and Underwood/Benn have the potential to be a nice core (hell no on Clark, though). Brady probably would make that offense a lot better. But the rest of that team sucks too much for the Brady Bucs to be a big threat. Imagine the Patriots defense without Wilfork and Talib. That's pretty much Tampa's defense. They have some nice young pieces in McCoy, Clayborn, David, Barron and Foster. But they need elite talent on that side the ball in the worst way. Give them Julius Peppers and Alex Smith, and I think they win more games than they would if you just give them Brady. Hell, give them Pepper and Willis, and I think Freeman would be good enough.

[2centsworth]

Jackson was a nice addition. Him, Williams and Underwood/Benn have the potential to be a nice core (hell no on Clark, though). Brady probably would make that offense a lot better. But the rest of that team sucks too much for the Brady Bucs to be a big threat. Imagine the Patriots defense without Wilfork and Talib. That's pretty much Tampa's defense. They have some nice young pieces in McCoy, Clayborn, David, Barron and Foster. But they need elite talent on that side the ball in the worst way. Give them Julius Peppers and Alex Smith, and I think they win more games than they would if you just give them Brady. Hell, give them Pepper and Willis, and I think Freeman would be good enough.

wrong bro. Tampa had the #1 rush d in the league. It was there secondary that stunk. Brady took the Patriots to the super bowl last year with the worst secondary in the league. NE's D was ranked near if not at the bottom last year.

[Chinook]

wrong bro. Tampa had the #1 rush d in the league. It was there secondary that stunk. Brady took the Patriots to the super bowl last year with the worst secondary in the league. NE's D was ranked near if not at the bottom last year.

I understand the Bucs' ranking. I've watched every Tampa game this season (and pretty much every season for about a dozen years). They went from one of the worst to one of the best by changing their scheme to bring a safety up into the box (usually Barron). You're right that they are good front-seven talent (although they lack elite talent outside of maybe McCoy and David). I conceded as much. Their pass defense is truly horrid, and a lot of that had to do with having Barron and a 37-year-old, undersized Barber. They also have no corners of note after trading Talib. Wright was a bad signing.

The Patriots' offense has been something to behold for about six years now. It hasn't always been because of the players, though. Even Matt Cassel managed to keep New England #12 in 2008. You'll get no argument from me that "elite" offense can overcome bad defense (only to a point, though, as ring-winning defenses usually have SOMETHING to hang their hats on) or that great quarterbacks can make offenses great. I see quarterbacks the same way I see point-guards: They're great to have, and great point-guard play can make an offense look really great, but if that's all you have, you're not going to win anything. The 49ers barely lost to the same team last season as the Patriots did with Alex "decent, but in no way elite" Smith at the helm. I don't know how much of a difference the Patriots having a better quarterback made.

[Chinook]

I am mainly upset with this elite talk, because I don't think Flacco deserves to be paid a sixth of the cap.