The SBC Center

[Boo]

I hear that the city of San Antonio is the 9th largest city in the nation.

With a population that high, shouldn't the SBC Center be bigger?

I mean it only holds 18,700 at max (i think).

[gospursgojas]

I wish it were larger during playoff time...maybe rounds 2 through finals..... but I dont think they sell out enough during the reg season

[johndraegerhhs]

i wish it was bigger

[Kori Ellis]

but I dont think they sell out enough during the reg season

They sold out 99% this season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?sort=home_pct&year=2005&seasonType=2

[timvp]

Supply and demand.

[ZStomp]

I hear that the city of San Antonio is the 9th largest city in the nation.

With a population that high, shouldn't the SBC Center be bigger?

I mean it only holds 18,700 at max (i think).


So With that logic then the arenas at NYC and LA should be 8 times bigger?? Since their population is around 8 million peeps?

[xcoriate]

Well if it sold out 99% of the time theres obviously enough demand to warrant it being bigger. But I got no problem with it.... having never sat in it. :lol

[Solid D]

San Antonio has annexed a lot of suburbs and thus boosted it's population numbers. It is supposedly about to go in front of San Diego soon. The problem is San Antonio is not even in the top 20 in Business Index...therefore, you don't have the same number of corporations to attract as season ticket-holders as you would in a Houston or Dallas or even Detroit.

The size of SBC is about right.

[Solid D]

One good thing about the SBC Center is....it's the home of the NBA Champions :)

Another good thing about the SBC Center is it had the best home W-L record in the NBA and was a huge diference-maker in Game 7 of the Finals.

Another good thing is that the Spurs Practice Facility is specially designed to match SBC Center's baskets and floor design, to provide familiarity and an extra home court advantage for the Spurs.

[50 cent]

I love the SBC. Living in Dallas, I have gone to plenty of Mavs games. It's a nice arena outside and in the concourse area, but inside it feels like a gigantic church.

At SBC, it feels more cozy like a theatre. I was at game 7 and I have never experienced anything like it as far as crowd noise and intensity besides maybe at Kyle Field in College Station against OU or Texas. The SBC is the shit!

[T Park]

Nothing wrong with SBC what so ever.

It would be nice if the Jumbotrons had stats on them.

Nothin wrong with SBC what so ever.

Making it bigger, would lose some of its intimacy.

[Horry For 3!]

Yeah, I like the SBC how it is.

[shyne]

the jumbotrons do have stats on them.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

San Antonio has annexed a lot of suburbs and thus boosted it's population numbers. It is supposedly about to go in front of San Diego soon. The problem is San Antonio is not even in the top 20 in Business Index...therefore, you don't have the same number of corporations to attract as season ticket-holders as you would in a Houston or Dallas or even Detroit.

The size of SBC is about right.

San Antonio has a metro population of almost 2 million people plus a larger surrounding population.

Sure SA has annexed a lot of land throughout the years, that doesn't change the fact that the city and metro have enough people to warrent a 20,000+ seat arena. Plus, city/metro population have nothing to do with seat count.

If the SBC Center were bigger, it would sell out as well.

But newer arenas are going that way. Smaller. No longer are there 22,000 sat basketball arenas being built.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

The Jazz's Delta Center holds 20,000 people. Salt Lake is a much smaller city and metro than SA.

Houston's new Toyota Center holds 19,000 seats for basketball. Just 500 more than SA.

Your logic is not very solid, Solid.

[greywheel]

Remember the Spurs used to play in the Alamodome and felt that a smaller arena would give them more of a home court advantage.

[IX_Equilibrium]

The 200 level of the SBC Center sucks. Too steep, chairs are too compact with each other, etc. I like the Toyota Center better.

[Jelly]

Oh boy. I guess we gotta start talking about building a new arena again!

[Marcus Bryant]

Local business conditions will impact arena design when it comes to the number of suites and box seating available. The number of peasants allowed in is secondary.

Solid D is correct.

[Duncan21]

here is a list of all the nba arenas and their capacity
http://www.hoopscorner.com/links/team_arenas.html

[Jelly]

The 200 level of the SBC Center sucks. Too steep, chairs are too compact with each other, etc. I like the Toyota Center better.

Not very smart of the planners to make compact seats in a city also known as Fat Antonio.

[midgetonadonkey]

They should have all the playoff games at the Alamodome. More people would be able to go to the games.

[Solid D]

I wasn't very clear in what I was trying to say but if it was attendance the Spurs were looking for, they would have stayed in the Alamodome. They averaged over 22,000 per game in their last season before moving to the SBC Center. The reason they moved was to provide better seating for higher-dollar seats and better boxes for the corporate clients. In San Antonio, you have a finite number of corporate season ticket holders who can afford to pay for the seats/boxes that make the arena a profitable place for ownership.

San Antonio is one of the fastest growing cities, of which Tourism and Military are still the leading industries, but it's still got a ways to go from a business index standpoint compared with a lot of other cities.

Austin is still 80 miles away for the corporate ticket-buyer and therefore is still a tough sell over the Longhorns and the Round Rock Express.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=8D539460-6B0D-4F9D-99D9-05ED0536E5EA

San Antonio Seeing Explosive Population Growth
LAST UPDATE: 7/1/2005 7:43:49 AM
Posted By: Jim Forsyth
This story is available on your cell phone at mobile.woai.com.
Watch this story...


Charlie Pride once asked, 'is anybody goin' to San Antone?' Apparently, quite a few people are. New Census Bureau figures show San Antonio is the third fastest growing big city in the country, adding more than 22,000 residents in the past year.

State Demographer Steve Murdock, a professor at UTSA, cites economic development announcements like the one yesterday, that Washington Mutual is adding a regional headquarters, and 4200 new jobs, to the Alamo City's economy.

"The sources of this growth, I'm sure, in San Antonio are the result of a variety of economic development events as well as demographic phenomena," Murdock told 1200 WOAI news.

San Antonio's population now stands at 1,236,249, according to Census Bureau figures. San Antonio remains the eight largest city in the country, and Murdock said San Antonio is poised to pass San Diego to become number seven.

"This is not surprising, but certainly verification, that San Antonio is a very fast growing city. Not only has San Antonio grown rapidly over the past year, its growth over the past four years, from 2000 through 2004, is the fourth largest of any big city in the U.S.," Murdock said.

Murdock said traditionally, Bexar County's growth has been about evenly divided between people moving here from other places in the U.S., people moving here from other countries, mainly Mexico, and the natural surplus of births over deaths.

"If we continue this growth rate, and there's no reason to believe that will not happen, San Antonio could double its population in the coming forty years. It's a very rapid rate of growth, but I think generally a manageable rate," Murdock said.

The sort of growth San Antonio is seeing is not spread evenly across the state. Many parts of Texas, especially deep east Texas and far west Texas, continue to lose population, and the state's two largest cities, Houston and Dallas, barely grew at all in the past year.

"In those two areas, I think you're seeing areas that are quite mature metropolitan areas," Murdock said. "In addition, you have central cities that are more hemmed in by suburban areas than you see in San Antonio."

But many of those close in suburbs around Houston, and Dallas are also seeing population loss. Eight of the ten largest cities in the Dallas area, including Irving and Garland, actually lost population from 2003 to 2004.

The explosive growth continues to be in the northern suburbs of San Antonio. Boerne and New Braunfels continue their growth spurt, with New Braunfels population now nearly 45,000, and Boerne seeing its population rise to more than 7,000 for the first time ever.

[T Park]

the jumbotrons do have stats on them

The one with the color screen and that shows the players during the game???

Uh its got timeouts and fouls, thats it.

[jezemel]

Remember the Spurs used to play in the Alamodome and felt that a smaller arena would give them more of a home court advantage.

Exactly. That's why I thought the SBC center was built in the first place? Because the Spurs weren't happy with the size of the Alamodome.

BTW, I hated watching games at the Alamodome. I totally agreed with the Spurs.

[TheTruth]

hey, for a poor college student you couldn't beat the 9 dollar tickets at the dome.

[sickdsm]

Supply and demand.


People are blasting Piston fan for only showing up 20 at the airport and you acknowledge that for the population, not very many people are interested in the spurs?

Pathetic for that big of a base and the fact that theres only one major franchise.


BTW, bigger arena's are overated. Gotta love squinting at the court at the H.H.H. Metrodome trying to spot who had the ball during the early wolves era.

[strangeweather]

The 200 level of the SBC Center sucks. Too steep, chairs are too compact with each other, etc. I like the Toyota Center better.

Yeah, the seats are definitely too small, but the visibility is great all the way to the back wall. I like the 200 level.

[strangeweather]

People are blasting Piston fan for only showing up 20 at the airport and you acknowledge that for the population, not very many people are interested in the spurs?

Pathetic for that big of a base and the fact that theres only one major franchise.

It's not a lack of interest at all. San Antonio isn't really that big. It's one of the largest cities, but it's a small overall market because there aren't that many people in the burbs.

As of the 2000 census, SA was only the 38th-largest MSA, putting it in the same ballpark with Fort Lauderdale, Norfolk, VA, and Columbus, OH.

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/NumberPortability/msas.html

[shelshor]

They should have all the playoff games at the Alamodome. More people would be able to go to the games.

But wouldn't that, at least partially, negate the Spurs' homecourt advantage?

[boutons]

"that many people in the burbs."

There's NOBODY living downtown, and if they many aren't in the suburbs, where are the 1+ million San Antonians?

[jezemel]

I was under the impression that SA has experienced continuing urban sprawl. I remember when Clark Highschool was in the middle of nowhere.

[strangeweather]

"that many people in the burbs."

There's NOBODY living downtown, and if they many aren't in the suburbs, where are the 1+ million San Antonians?

All the places outside downtown that have been consolidated into the city. In northern cities, it would be pretty common for anything outside 410 to be a suburb outside city limits.

[CalsonicKansei]

San Antonio has annexed a lot of suburbs and thus boosted it's population numbers. It is supposedly about to go in front of San Diego soon. The problem is San Antonio is not even in the top 20 in Business Index...therefore, you don't have the same number of corporations to attract as season ticket-holders as you would in a Houston or Dallas or even Detroit.

The size of SBC is about right.

SA has not annexed A LOT of suburbs. The city size in square miles 263sqmi. has been the same since the 1970's. People build within the city limits. Yes the metropolitan area has grown but mostly the city. not like Detroit where everyone moves OUT of the city limits to live in the suburbs.

[Solid D]

SA has not annexed A LOT of suburbs. The city size in square miles 263sqmi. has been the same since the 1970's. People build within the city limits. Yes the metropolitan area has grown but mostly the city. not like Detroit where everyone moves OUT of the city limits to live in the suburbs.

I totally disagree. San Antonio has been annexing property in the South, NW, and North periodically for the past several years and more plans are in place. Example: Stone Oak was annexed in 1998. Stone Oak is substantial and continues to add people and homes. The Braun Rd, Shanefield Rd area outside of 1604 is bit by bit being annexed by The City of SA.

Check this out. As recently as 2002 in the south and small parts of north and nw for just one year.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/planning/study_areas_2002.pdf

[Solid D]

http://www.bexar.org/community/Plan2009/Map_Appendix.pdf

Here is a plan for Bexar County through 2009. Map 14 on page 18 shows City of SA annexation of Bexar County land 2000 through 2005.

A quote:
"In 2003, the city of San Antonio began annexation that may increase the size of the city by 64,027 acres and reduces the total number of acres in Bexar County to 476,236 acres."

[exstatic]

The Alamodome sucked ass for basketball. I'd never pay a dime to watch a playoff game there. Plus, can you imagine the indignation of season ticketholders who have seats feet from the action being pushed back tens of yards, with bad sightlines to boot.

If you want playoff tickets, you can get them, guaranteed, if you buy a ten game pack. Beats the shit out of wishing for an old, outdated barn with more seats.

[FromWayDowntown]

People are blasting Piston fan for only showing up 20 at the airport and you acknowledge that for the population, not very many people are interested in the spurs?

We agree.

Sincerely,

The 400,000 people who showed up for the Spurs championship parade and Dome celebration AND the 5,000 people who were at the airport after Game 5 of the Finals.

[exstatic]

What would T'Pup fan know about meeting winning teams at the airport?

[dknights411]

Yeah, the seats are definitely too small, but the visibility is great all the way to the back wall. I like the 200 level.

Me too, and those steps are not that steep. At Toronto's Rogers Centre (aka Skydome), you almost literally need rock climbing equipment and an oxygen tank when you got to the 500 level. (Go Raptors!)

[timvp]

People are blasting Piston fan for only showing up 20 at the airport and you acknowledge that for the population, not very many people are interested in the spurs?

Pathetic for that big of a base and the fact that theres only one major franchise.



WTF are you talking about?

Supply and demand as in if the supply is limited, the demand will increase and so can the ticket prices. The Spurs led the league in attendance when they were in the Alamodome.

Nice attempt at spinning my words.

[sickdsm]

Your words were "supply and demand"

That's it.

Nice attempt of being an ass after you state three words and then say, i meant it the other way.

[timvp]

Your words were "supply and demand"

That's it.

Nice attempt of being an ass after you state three words and then say, i meant it the other way.

Meant it the other way? The phrase is supply and demand. You wanted me to say demand and supply? :lol

With the smaller arena, the supply isn't as great which upped the demand for season tickets and also increased the money the Spurs could charge for the tickets. That means more $$$ for Holt and the Spurs.

The one thing people can't bash San Antonio about is fans that will come out and watch the team ... as was evident in the Alamodome.





P.S.

Was never trying to be an ass. What's up with Ndudi Ebi? Any chance of trading him to the Spurs?

:smokin

[sickdsm]

My point is that with the population san antonio has and the fact theres only one game in town, all your small market stuff doesn't fly.

Theres a reason why everyone in towns under a 500 pop. are at a fish fry every friday night. It doesn't mean there bigger supporters of fish than a Kansas City or a Memphis. There ain't as much to do.

As for Ebi, it doesn't sound good. I don't know much about the Howard Pulley tournaments but apparently he's stinking it up. At one point he just walked off the court and took his jersey off and left i guess.

[boutons]

I remember one article last season about a writer from up north came down to wretched SA to watch his team play the Spurs. It was a Wed night, his team was kinda crappy/insignificant, but SBC was at capacity. He was amazed how the fans, including kids and babies on school/work night, turned out in those circumstances.

[FromWayDowntown]

The simple truth is that NBA teams best guarantee their revenue streams by two things: (1) high priced lower-level seats and luxury boxes; and (2) a high percentage of season tickets in the building.

One issue the Spurs faced at the Alamodome was the fact that tickets were so readily available that there was little incentive for many to buy season tickets. Because the Spurs were good, they could sell lots of single-game tickets to games against good opponents (and games on preferrable occasions like weekends and holidays). But the Spurs wanted the assurance of season ticket revenue to make their business work. As timvp notes, the best way to get people to buy season tickets is to reduce the number of tickets, create scarcity, and put a premium on securing tickets early.

I don't know what the exact numbers are, but I recall reading somewhere that the Spurs, by moving to SBC Center, actually increased the sheer number of season tickets sold. At the same time, they managed to gain substantial revenue by incorporating desireable luxury boxes and courtside seating. In that sense, moving to the SBC Center was a great move for the franchise.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

"that many people in the burbs."

There's NOBODY living downtown, and if they many aren't in the suburbs, where are the 1+ million San Antonians?

San Antonio has one of the largest Downtown populations in the ountry. The largest in Texas. Over 25,000 downtown residents. Also, housing construction in downtown is at an all time high.

A 32 story condo tower is being built downtown. Just one of the many things going on.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

I totally disagree. San Antonio has been annexing property in the South, NW, and North periodically for the past several years and more plans are in place. Example: Stone Oak was annexed in 1998. Stone Oak is substantial and continues to add people and homes. The Braun Rd, Shanefield Rd area outside of 1604 is bit by bit being annexed by The City of SA.

Check this out. As recently as 2002 in the south and small parts of north and nw for just one year.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/planning/study_areas_2002.pdf

The land on the south side was annexed so many of the things that are going on could happen.

The city needs to own that land, not Bexar, iin order for Toyota and A&M to happen.

When that southside land was annexed, it gave the city about 400 people. All that land is is rural farming and ranch. Nothing more. That's all about to change though.

And the small piece of land annexed in far northwest Bexar is for expansion of a wild life rescue.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

When the city annexed all that southside land, this is the majority (98%) of the population they took in.

http://xs35.xs.to/pics/05265/southbexar.png

Yeah, that little neighborhood.

[GopherSA]

Nothing wrong with SBC what so ever.

It would be nice if the Jumbotrons had stats on them.

Nothin wrong with SBC what so ever.

Making it bigger, would lose some of its intimacy.

The seats are too small and the concessions are highway robbery...

...but that's what I get for being a big Scandinavian guy in SA...

[Solid D]

Got any pics of Stone Oak, BDB?

Meanwhile, the size of SBC Center is about right.

[NZHayden]

been to the sbc once and that was to see i think there called the rampage?(ice hockey). ITS FUCKEN HUGE. and that was with the upper levels shut off.
compared to new zealands biggest bball stadium which holds only 5000 i think.

[Spurologist]

Never been there, but it probably should be bigger. Wasn't it kind of embarassing when it was pointed out that in game 7 of the finals there was more pistons fans at their stadium than spurs fans at the SBC center.

[twincam]

I hear that the city of San Antonio is the 9th largest city in the nation.

With a population that high, shouldn't the SBC Center be bigger?

I mean it only holds 18,700 at max (i think).


Let me correct you on that.
This was released just last week.
San Antonio is officially the 8th largest city in the USA by population.
San Antonio is the 3rd largest growing city in the USA.
At the rate San Antonio is growing, San Antonio will pass San Diego as the 7th largest city in the USA.

impressive!

[ChumpDumper]

You can say 8th largest city all you want, but we're still in the 30s for tv market size -- not many sizeable surrounding communities.

[boutons]

"San Antonio will pass San Diego"

but it's all about $$$ and market size. Per-capita income for a metro area is as important as capita count. I've been to San Diego a few times, and Austin many times. Both those cities appear to be, truly superficially, much wealthier and more dynamic, bustling than San Antonio.