When did LeBron become the best player in the league?

[Ghazi]

I'm just curious what season it was exactly that LeBron became the best player in the league.

I don't know the answer!

Gun to my head I'd say 2007-2008.

[rayjayjohnson]

2003

[DeadlyDynasty]

Probably Game 5 of the 2007 ECF

[SpurSwag]

08-09 season was when he became the undisputed best player, but the year before there was still some debate imo

[Venti Quattro]

when he moved to Miami

[stretch]

IMO, he became arguably the best player when he took that shit team to the Finals and had that magnificent performance against the Pistons.

I think it became indisputable (except by Kobe knobslobbers/Lebron haters) the year he somehow won 66 games with another shit team.

It became indisputable by even the biggest of Kobe knobslobbers/Lebron haters this past year after winning the championship.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Probably Game 5 of the 2007 ECF

if he was that good as you claim him to be...why he lose the next 4 games in the finals?

[stretch]

Probably Game 5 of the 2007 ECF

This is what I have always felt. But many people will debate it because of his playoff "failures", without paying attention to just how awful his teams were.

[DeadlyDynasty]

if he was that good as you claim him to be...why he lose the next 4 games in the finals?

Walk into oncoming traffic.

[irishock]

Kobe was clearly the better player up until 2009.

[stretch]

if he was that good as you claim him to be...why he lose the next 4 games in the finals?

because his team was absolute garbage.

im not sure there is any player in NBA history that could have found a way to take a team that bad, to the finals. MJ might be the only one with a remote shot, but somehow Lebron's unselfish play and natural creativity is what had those guys playing out of their minds in that run, and allowed them to get as far as they did. MJ would have probably not had the patience that Lebron had, to continue being willing to trust his teammates. Magic is the only other guy that comes to mind (because of his creativity and teamwork), but he didn't have the ability to affect the game defensively like Lebron could, nor score like Lebron could.

[stretch]

Kobe was clearly the better player up until 2009.

you're an idiot

[mavs>spurs]

shaq from 00-04, duncan in 05, wade in 06, lebron 07-10, dirk in 11, lebron 12-present

[baseline bum]

Probably 2006-07.

[Stalin]

shaq from 00-04, duncan in 05, wade in 06, lebron 07-10, dirk in 11, lebron 12-present




:lmao:lmao:lmao

[irishock]

Duncan>Shaq after 2002

[Clipper Nation]

At approximately this moment....

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/269/392/lebron_display_image.jpg?1277308519

[spurraider21]

i think the debate started in that 07 playoff run. at that point i thought he was the best player, but there was still debate. considering i live in LA the debate still goes on (sad part is, its true. they still think bean > bron). in my head he was the best since 07, it became common knowledge everywhere except LA since about 2008 or 2009

[scanry]

1999, 2003 & 2005 - Duncan
2000 - 2002 - Shaq
2004 - KG
2006 - 2007 - Kobe
2008 - Present - Lebron

[midnightpulp]

Probably Game 5 of the 2007 ECF

[midnightpulp]

Although Dirk stole his best player in the league cookie in 2011 by having one of the more memorable playoff runs of the past decade and outperforming Lebron in the Finals.

[Clipper Nation]

Although Dirk stole his best player in the league cookie in 2011 by having one of the more memorable playoff runs of the past decade and outperforming Lebron in the Finals.
Absolutely not.... one bad series wasn't enough to put the Kang below Dirk, let's be real now...

[TDMVPDPOY]

Kobe was clearly the better player up until 2009.

pau cosign fagot

[TDMVPDPOY]

because his team was absolute garbage.

im not sure there is any player in NBA history that could have found a way to take a team that bad, to the finals. MJ might be the only one with a remote shot, but somehow Lebron's unselfish play and natural creativity is what had those guys playing out of their minds in that run, and allowed them to get as far as they did. MJ would have probably not had the patience that Lebron had, to continue being willing to trust his teammates. Magic is the only other guy that comes to mind (because of his creativity and teamwork), but he didn't have the ability to affect the game defensively like Lebron could, nor score like Lebron could.

easts competition was shit anyway, could care less what he or any fag out easts did anything worth mentioning...same with that clown rapists in 07

[Stalin]

Although Dirk stole his best player in the league cookie in 2011 by having one of the more memorable playoff runs of the past decade and outperforming Lebron in the Finals.


anyone can get hot for a stretch of games, lets not forget how nazi dirk came down to earth in the finals and shot a classic kobe stat line of 40%, if big daddy chandler wasn't there to save his ass and lebronze didn't choke in the final series, he wouldn't have his fluke championship...are you saying 2 years ago dirk was the best player in the league and now all of a sudden, he's a washed up shitbag, come on son, doesn't really add up, tbqh

[midnightpulp]

Absolutely not.... one bad series wasn't enough to put the Kang below Dirk, let's be real now...

Have to disagree, brother. The playoffs ultimately decide who the best player in the league is for that particular season. In 2011, James had his worst statistical playoff run since '06. Similarly, I thought James was on whole different level from everybody else in '09 despite not winning the championship.

I guess it depends on what your definition of best player is and how you evaluate the concept. Even though James was underwhelming by his standards in '11, he was still the league's best player as far as upside and talent are concerned, but he wasn't the best player for that playoff year.

I just can't grant James best player status for '11 when he laid an egg like this:

http://oi48.tinypic.com/1z1af07.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

Have to disagree, brother. The playoffs ultimately decide who the best player in the league is for that particular season. In 2011, James had his worst statistical playoff run since '06. Similarly, I thought James was on whole different level from everybody else in '09 despite not winning the championship.

I guess it depends on what your definition of best player is and how you evaluate the concept. Even though James was underwhelming by his standards in '11, he was still the league's best player as far as upside and talent are concerned, but he wasn't the best player for that playoff year.

I just can't grant James best player status for '11 when he laid an egg like this:

http://oi48.tinypic.com/1z1af07.jpg

this clown has 2 bad finals series, i dunno how some clowns can give him a pass ....
shit team he was exposed
good team still exposed...

[midnightpulp]

anyone can get hot for a stretch of games, lets not forget how nazi dirk came down to earth in the finals and shot a classic kobe stat line of 40%, if big daddy chandler wasn't there to save his ass and lebronze didn't choke in the final series, he wouldn't have his fluke championship...are you saying 2 years ago dirk was the best player in the league and now all of a sudden, he's a washed up shitbag, come on son, doesn't really add up, tbqh

On the same note, anybody can pad stats during the regular season (not saying James does that) and convince the masses he's the best player in the league until the playoffs expose him. '06 Kobe Bryant (held to 8 points below his average by the Suns :lol) and numerous David Robinson seasons come to mind.

[midnightpulp]

this clown has 2 bad finals series, i dunno how some clowns can give him a pass ....
shit team he was exposed
good team still exposed...

He gets a pass for '07, considering the entire Spurs' defense was focused on him and only him.

[HarlemHeat37]

1999- Duncan
2000-2002- Shaq
2003- Duncan
2004- Garnett
2005- Duncan
2006- Wade
2007- Bryant
2008- present - Lebron

Half this forum was still arguing for Kobe over Lebron from 2008 to 2010, tbh..a lot of them are using revisionist history now..

[Clipper Nation]

He gets a pass for '07, considering the entire Spurs' defense was focused on him and only him.

And his teammates were utter shit, and that team would have been a first round exit at best with a lesser superstar...

[Koolaid_Man]

man.... I guess everyone in this thread is smarter than me....I was actually thinking when his daddy got traded....

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/dwest_zpsa268c77a.jpg

[Stalin]

On the same note, anybody can pad stats during the regular season (not saying James does that) and convince the masses he's the best player in the league until the playoffs expose him. '06 Kobe Bryant (held to 8 points below his average by the Suns :lol) and numerous David Robinson seasons come to mind.


so because nazi dirk outplayed him over a 6 game stretch(while shooting 41%:lol) he immediatelly become the best player for that year? dont think that sample size is large enough, i get it, you throwing mavfan a bone, but you also have to look at the longterm, shooters go through hot and cold stretches on the regular, dirk has been shit in the last two years while leBald has been solidifying his status as best player in the game, alot of posters saying he's been the best since 07-08 or so, so again all of a sudden he isn't the best player for 1 year because of a 6 game stretch, lol come on brah

[Bynumite]

He gets a pass for '07, considering the entire Spurs' defense was focused on him and only him.

Too much double standards as usual. Who did the Lakers have in 06 that demanded defensive respect besides Kobe?

Your Lebron playing 1 vs 5 excuse and Kobe PPG drop in the playoffs logic can easily be applied in both players cases.

[TDMVPDPOY]

so because nazi dirk outplayed him over a 6 game stretch(while shooting 41%:lol) he immediatelly become the best player for that year? dont think that sample size is large enough, i get it, you throwing mavfan a bone, but you also have to look at the longterm, shooters go through hot and cold stretches on the regular, dirk has been shit in the last two years while leBald has been solidifying his status as best player in the game, alot of posters saying he's been the best since 07-08 or so, so again all of a sudden he isn't the best player for 1 year because of a 6 game stretch, lol come on brah

1 or 2 games in a series disappearing act is acceptable, but the whole series?

[midnightpulp]

so because nazi dirk outplayed him over a 6 game stretch(while shooting 41%:lol) he immediatelly become the best player for that year? dont think that sample size is large enough, i get it, you throwing mavfan a bone, but you also have to look at the longterm, shooters go through hot and cold stretches on the regular, dirk has been shit in the last two years while leBald has been solidifying his status as best player in the game, alot of posters saying he's been the best since 07-08 or so, so again all of a sudden he isn't the best player for 1 year because of a 6 game stretch, lol come on brah

Not just that six game stretch. He was underwhelming for the majority of playoffs.

And Dirk didn't have a fluke playoff run. He was firmly in the MVP race until a mid-season injury sidelined him and it took him awhile to round back into form.

[midnightpulp]

Too much double standards as usual. Who did the Lakers have in 06 that demanded defensive respect besides Kobe?

Your Lebron playing 1 vs 5 excuse and Kobe PPG drop in the playoffs logic can easily be applied in both players cases.

Lamar Odom.

Lebron James' number 2 was B:lol:lolbie Gibson.

Also, Spurs defense>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suns' defense.

[Stalin]

1 or 2 games in a series disappearing act is acceptable, but the whole series?

he was doing fine till the end of game two, when heat choked that lead away, obviously that meltdown stuck in his head and affected his play the rest of the series, and yeah youll have some trash games at times, and the chances increase the more pressure there is, so what? the other guy become the best player for the whole year all of a sudden, its not like nazi dirk was amazing, lol finals mvp while shooting 41%, he just had a better team around him to clean up his bricks aka big Daddy Chandler, kobe has shown us how its done on plenty of occasion, i'd say

[TDMVPDPOY]

Bynumite

htf are u makn up excuses for the rapists when his team was up 3-1 on suns...

[Ghazi]

:lol at Dirk having a better team around him in 2011... more depth yes, but Wade/Bosh should've been enough for Lebron that year.

[TDMVPDPOY]

there shouldve been no exuse for lebron losing against a bunch of pensioners...

[midnightpulp]

For the record, LO average 20, 11, and 5 in that series.

But Kirby still had no help :cry

[Koolaid_Man]

Too much double standards as usual. Who did the Lakers have in 06 that demanded defensive respect besides Kobe?

Your Lebron playing 1 vs 5 excuse and Kobe PPG drop in the playoffs logic can easily be applied in both players cases.

I'm light years ahead of Spur fan...check it.... most NBA fans at that...this shit bores me..I get way more a thrill outta pure shit talking...prime example of my advanced thinking --> every time these dipshit Spur fans try to denigrate Kobe and prop up Lebron in his place all they're really doing his shitting on their own team....:lol Lebron setting records in a weak JV conference while Kobe is battling on a nightly basis dynasty teams like the Spurs, and record setting teams like the Suns, Mavs, the great Kings and Trailblazer teams in the early decade...is no comparison to the competition Kobe has faced...in fact the same Spurs teams that Kobe single-handedly gave hell ended up sweeping Lebron in the finals....Imagine if Lebron had to play against these type of teams in his prime, his whole career like Kobe did on a nightly basis to get to the finals. Lebron has literally had it easy as a player compared to Kobe...hate Kobe or not lets be real about the shit..The West for the past 15 yrs or so has been a muthafucker to get through...the east not so much... so Spur and Mav fan be my guest denigrate your own teams greatness by trying in vein to shit on Kobe....

it's pointless anyways...the NBA players have already spoken (Comments on Kobe - volumes 1-3) look it up on youtube.... and they revere Kobe the most since MJ...you losers can get lost :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

Koolaid_Man

h2h match stats dont favor kobe whether its against lebron or that turd wade...

so whats the excuse?

[Arcadian]

There is no concrete answer... But I would say 2009, his first MVP season.

[Koolaid_Man]

Koolaid_Man (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19058)

h2h match stats dont favor kobe whether its against lebron or that turd wade...

so whats the excuse?


that actually can be said of other players that Kobe plays as well...but he plays these guys 2x a yr...he's not really jazzed to play them...but if he was in his prime he would have literally dropped 50 and 60 + on these cats like he routinely did Raja and Bruce Lee Bowen...

[midnightpulp]

that actually can be said of other players that Kobe plays as well...but he plays these guys 2x a yr...he's not really jazzed to play them...but if he was in his prime he would have literally dropped 50 and 60 + on these cats like he routinely did Raja and Bruce Lee Bowen...

:lol owned by Timvpdpoy.

He shut you down, chimp.

[TDMVPDPOY]

that actually can be said of other players that Kobe plays as well...but he plays these guys 2x a yr...he's not really jazzed to play them...but if he was in his prime he would have literally dropped 50 and 60 + on these cats like he routinely did Raja and Bruce Lee Bowen...

to say his not really jizz playing them....they get the best calender dates in the season, ur tellin me kobe doesnt look forward to playin these clowns even if its 2x a season only? that small sample size is good enough even when all 3 played on shitty teams

[D-Wade]

Since that Wade dunk on Varejao...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ

[DeadlyDynasty]

Half this forum was still arguing for Kobe over Lebron from 2008 to 2010, tbh..a lot of them are using revisionist history now..

I'll own my part in this...it was my civic duty to shit on him while Kobe was still winning championships. His 2008 series against the Celts and 09 series against the Magic were amazing. To be fair, he regressed in the playoffs the next 2 seasons, though (although I never argued against him in 2011).

[Stalin]

Not just that six game stretch. He was underwhelming for the majority of playoffs.

And Dirk didn't have a fluke playoff run. He was firmly in the MVP race until a mid-season injury sidelined him and it took him awhile to round back into form.


dirk 23 and 7 in that year, is enough to be in the mvp race? lol underwhelming by leCrab's standards, maybe, but still good enough to make it to the finals in his first year with a new team that only had 3 good players and bunch of shitbags otherwise, dirk has shown us over a decade on stacked teams how he consistently chokes until the one year, when he finally hits a hot shooting stretch, while lebron has been the best player consistently over the last 6 years, other than a poor shooting stretch over a small amount of games, to an unbiased observer its obvious who got lucky, its cool though, i know you gotta stick to your guns, alot of mavfan would get upset at you otherwise, luckily for me i don't share that concern brah

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol owned by Timvpdpoy.

He shut you down, chimp.

eh....nahhh he merely pivoted from my commentary calling out Lebron for playing in the east his whole career....even though not the true definition I like to call that war spin... sabre rattling

[Koolaid_Man]

to say his not really jizz playing them....they get the best calender dates in the season, ur tellin me kobe doesnt look forward to playin these clowns even if its 2x a season only? that small sample size is good enough even when all 3 played on shitty teams

not really...they're not true rivals...but they're younger, hungrier so their h2h stats may look a bit better...no big deal....especially since he's dangling 5 rangs... ;-)

[TDMVPDPOY]

eh....nahhh he merely pivoted from my commentary calling out Lebron for playing in the east his whole career....even though not the true definition I like to call that war spin... sabre rattling

disregard the conference competition, lets just look at the h2h matches between the lebron led cavs vs kobes lakers...there should be no excuse for kobe losing to this clown...lebron wont be doing shit with those cavs teams in the easts anyway, might as well disregard it...

if you wanna talk about kobe prime years, especially those 2 seasons after the shaq era that his fans say is his prime....that was mainly a 1 man team ball hog volume shooter chuckin up shots...i cant even give him the nod that is even prime years...

[HarlemHeat37]

Revisionist history has been affected by Mike Brown's failures with the Lakers, tbh..most NBA fans, including many here, argued that Brown is a good coach and Lebron's limitations were the reason Brown's teams failed in the playoffs.. Lebron has certainly made improvements to his game, but he has also shown what he can do with legit #2/3 options..

Also, the Lakers have progressively declined since their last title, coinciding with Gasol's decline, in addition to their coaching question marks..Kobe has continued to play at a similar level, yet LA continues to worsen..

As for Dirk, despite Lebron's choking in the Finals, he had more overall responsibility on the Heat all year, despite Wade and Bosh..Lebron was forced to play both the Dirk and Chandler roles for his team, but failed at both during the Finals..

[midnightpulp]

eh....nahhh he merely pivoted from my commentary calling out Lebron for playing in the east his whole career....even though not the true definition I like to call that war spin... sabre rattling

East was tougher in '09 -'10 than the West.

Kirby beat such powerhouses as the older SSOL Suns, the Utah Jazz, the Houston Rockets, the Denver Nuggets, and the young Thunder with a rookie 20 year old James Harden.

Now the early-mid 00s West was a fuckin' gauntlet. But those were Shaq's teams, so that doesn't do much for Kobe's side of the debate.

You just better hope against hope James don't tie Kirby in Finals MVPs. If he does it this year, it's on.

[TDMVPDPOY]

not really...they're not true rivals...but they're younger, hungrier so their h2h stats may look a bit better...no big deal....especially since he's dangling 5 rangs... ;-)

wtf not true rivals? gtfo man

[TDMVPDPOY]

East was tougher in '09 -'10 than the West.



easts were never good untill u get into the later rounds of the playoffs, but those heat/celtics team had no business/excuse they are being pushed in the first rounds by the likes of the hawks, pacers, knicks...to longer series then expected

[Koolaid_Man]

disregard the conference competition, lets just look at the h2h matches between the lebron led cavs vs kobes lakers...there should be no excuse for kobe losing to this clown...lebron wont be doing shit with those cavs teams in the easts anyway, might as well disregard it...

if you wanna talk about kobe prime years, especially those 2 seasons after the shaq era that his fans say is his prime....that was mainly a 1 man team ball hog volume shooter chuckin up shots...i cant even give him the nod that is even prime years...

I see you have a lot of passion but I'm not impressed..really I'm not...just a small reminder to you that Laker fan don't judge Kobe's dominance over Duncan based on regular season H2H matches...it's really about the 4-1 h2h advantage Kobe has over Duncan in the play-offs...maybe my math is off a bit it's either 4-1 or 4-2 but Kobe holds the advantage...just ask your PER driven friend Midget....

you reaching for regular season matches makes you like petty..stop it..it's unbecoming...

[Koolaid_Man]

East was tougher in '09 -'10 than the West.

Kirby beat such powerhouses as the older SSOL Suns, the Utah Jazz, the Houston Rockets, the Denver Nuggets, and the young Thunder with a rookie 20 year old James Harden.

Now the early-mid 00s West was a fuckin' gauntlet. But those were Shaq's teams, so that doesn't do much for Kobe's side of the debate.

You just better hope against hope James don't tie Kirby in Finals MVPs. If he does it this year, it's on.

You like that group the Spinners?

[Koolaid_Man]

wtf not true rivals? gtfo man

You must be good at excel pivot tables ?

[Stalin]

Revisionist history has been affected by Mike Brown's failures with the Lakers, tbh..most NBA fans, including many here, argued that Brown is a good coach and Lebron's limitations were the reason Brown's teams failed in the playoffs.. Lebron has certainly made improvements to his game, but he has also shown what he can do with legit #2/3 options..

Also, the Lakers have progressively declined since their last title, coinciding with Gasol's decline, in addition to their coaching question marks..Kobe has continued to play at a similar level, yet LA continues to worsen..

As for Dirk, despite Lebron's choking in the Finals, he had more overall responsibility on the Heat all year, despite Wade and Bosh..Lebron was forced to play both the Dirk and Chandler roles for his team, but failed at both during the Finals..



very true, not denying he choked in the finals, but all dirk had to do was shoot the ball, while leCrab had to do everything on a new team, nazi dirk had very good supporting cast that did everything else, that cubes just got lucky with putting together, its no wonder mavs have been shit before and since, just a fluke run, maybe the next generation of mavfan will sniff a title in the distant future, IMO TBH

[TDMVPDPOY]

Koolaid_Man

u say individually wade or lebron is not a true rival to kobe

ok lets get this out in the open, 03/04 season we can say that the lakers started to become kobes team, in essence i forgot what year lebron and wade was drafted...but we can disregard what kobe has achieve so far, and lets base it on what he has achieved when he became leader of the lakers..cause it overlapse with the other 2 players entering the league and already contributing.....all 3 played on shitty teams anyway, so i dunno how you can come up with excuses when they played h2h matches kobe has been outplayed by them individually b4 teaming up...

cant bring up playoffs, since they never met

[midnightpulp]

I see you have a lot of passion but I'm not impressed..really I'm not...just a small reminder to you that Laker fan don't judge Kobe's dominance over Duncan based on regular season H2H matches...it's really about the 4-1 h2h advantage Kobe has over Duncan in the play-offs...maybe my math is off a bit it's either 4-1 or 4-2 but Kobe holds the advantage...just ask your PER driven friend Midget....

you reaching for regular season matches makes you like petty..stop it..it's unbecoming...

H2H playoffs record meaning anything :lol

Nash has a 2 to 1 advantage over Kirby.

Now you'll say "Well, Nash always had the better team."

As did Kobe. Lakers were favored in every playoff matchup aside from '99 since they always had the better team on paper. They even had the better team on paper in '99, but the Spurs were on such a roll going into that matchup, they had to be favored.

And let's not forget Kobe choosing to miss the playoffs and choke to the Suns during the time the Spurs had their best teams.

[jesterbobman]

Depends on what you're looking at. Using RAPM as probably the best single publicly available stat(http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/), it's probably the 07/08 Season. He was a +8.2 per 100, Garnett a +8.4, but James played ~2500 extra posessions. From there, He's 1st, 1st, 2nd(to Dwight) 1st, then 2nd this year(to CP3), but Health probably pushes LeBron higher(Playing more possesions at that level makes him more valuable).

There are periods where other players have been better, Dirk in the finals, but those are short stretches.

[Bynumite]

For the record, LO average 20, 11, and 5 in that series.

But Kirby still had no help :cry

Lebron went from a regular season 27 PPG in 46% shooting to 22 PPG in 35% in the Finals vs the spurs but i guess you will give your boy a pass as usual.

And people seem to forget how much of a choker this dude was pre-ring despite putting up big numbers. Sure, his supporting cast wasn't great, i'll give you that but he choked vs SAS.

And you mentioned Kobe's drop in points in 06 vs the Suns like he was completely exposed as a fraud, when in reality he was still averaging 28 PPG in 50% shooting during that series :lol

[Stalin]

^ serious question:



is "kobe johnson" supposed to be ironic, shit cracks me up every time i see it :lmao

[Bynumite]

^ serious question:



is "kobe johnson" supposed to be ironic, shit cracks me up every time i see it :lmao

I just thought it was a cool pic and that's about it.

Not saying Kobe is as good or a better passer than Magic... just in case spurfan cares and starts freaking out :lol

[midnightpulp]

Lebron went from a regular season 27 PPG in 46% shooting to 22 PPG in 35% in the Finals vs the spurs but i guess you will give your boy a pass as usual.

And people seem to forget how much of a choker this dude was pre-ring despite putting up big numbers. Sure, his supporting cast wasn't great, i'll give you that but he choked vs SAS.

And you mentioned Kobe's drop in points in 06 vs the Suns like he was completely exposed as a fraud, when in reality he was still averaging 28 PPG in 50% shooting during that series :lol

How did he choke against the Spurs when they were heavily favored in the first place?

No perimeter player would've excelled in James' situation. Not Wade. Not your beloved Kobe. He had no second option whatsoever. All the Spurs had to do was pack the paint with their number one interior defense to take away the drive and have Bowen play tight on him to take away his jumper.

As for Kobe against the Suns, his overall stat line looks nice because of that 50 point game. Aside from that, he didn't have one 30 point game. Take away his 50 point game and his average drops to 24 points per game on 47% shooting.

Against the Suns :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

Lebron went from a regular season 27 PPG in 46% shooting to 22 PPG in 35% in the Finals vs the spurs but i guess you will give your boy a pass as usual.

And people seem to forget how much of a choker this dude was pre-ring despite putting up big numbers. Sure, his supporting cast wasn't great, i'll give you that but he choked vs SAS.

And you mentioned Kobe's drop in points in 06 vs the Suns like he was completely exposed as a fraud, when in reality he was still averaging 28 PPG in 50% shooting during that series :lol

everybody knew lebron had no chance in that series....

now for kobe who went 3-1 on the suns with a butt sniff into next round....choked a series away

[Stalin]

I just thought it was a cool pic and that's about it.

Not saying Kobe is as good or a better passer than Magic... just in case spurfan cares and starts freaking out :lol


ah kk, wasn't sure if serious, after having 3 games of 10+ assists he becomes magic all of a sudden, that might make sense in the lg universe, not sure about here, :lol:lol

[midnightpulp]

And he was exposed as a fraud. After his string of 50 point games that year and that overrated 81 point game, Rick Reilly creamed himself and stated "Kobe is better than Jordan," a quote which made the front page of SI. Dipshit Mark Jackson said the same thing.

Then he got shut down by the Suns and everyone realized how retarded they were to make such a comparison.

[Bynumite]

How did he choke against the Spurs when they were heavily favored in the first place?

No perimeter player would've excelled in James' situation. Not Wade. Not your beloved Kobe. He had no second option whatsoever. All the Spurs had to do was pack the paint with their number one interior defense to take away the drive and have Bowen play tight on him to take away his jumper.

As for Kobe against the Suns, his overall stat line looks nice because of that 50 point game. Aside from that, he didn't have one 30 point game. Take away his 50 point game and his average drops to 24 points per game on 47% shooting.

Against the Suns :lol

That logic is stupid and for some reason people like to throw it around a lot on ST, "If you take away the things a player does well, he becomes a bad player" Well, no shit genius but things don't work like that, you can't discredit Kobe based on a negative event that didn't happen. Kobe had that 50 point game period.

24PPG/47% still is a good performance but as documented, Kobe averaged 28PPG/50% vs Phoenix.

Also, i don't know why you keep discrediting that Suns team. The same team that was tied 2-2 with the spurs during their 07 series before Amare and Diaw were suspended.

[whitemamba]

probably when he took his talents to south beach, when they went on that crazy winning streak, he was on another level

[whitemamba]

And he was exposed as a fraud. After his string of 50 point games that year and that overrated 81 point game, Rick Reilly creamed himself and stated "Kobe is better than Jordan," a quote which made the front page of SI. Dipshit Mark Jackson said the same thing.

Then he got shut down by the Suns and everyone realized how retarded they were to make such a comparison.

your an interesting person, how you say thats overrated ill never understand.. they were down by like 18 and no one was doing shit, guy turns it on and single handedly shit on the raptors, idc how bad they were if 1 guy scores 81 on you thats shameful..

give the suns some credit that team was pretty fucking good at the time... this guy is going down as one of the greatest whether you like it or not bra

[Vladimir Lenin]

:lmao:lmao:lmao


Man Mother Russian disagrees.

[Stalin]

Man Mother Russian disagrees.


can't please everyone, tbqh

[lefty]

if he was that good as you claim him to be...why he lose the next 4 games in the finals?

I think the pistons choked too

[lefty]

your an interesting person, how you say thats overrated ill never understand.. they were down by like 18 and no one was doing shit, guy turns it on and single handedly shit on the raptors, idc how bad they were if 1 guy scores 81 on you thats shameful..

give the suns some credit that team was pretty fucking good at the time... this guy is going down as one of the greatest whether you like it or not bra

Suns were good at the time?

Jordan Isiah and Bird singlehandedly killed much better teams in the playoffs

Stop making retarded excuses

[JoeTait75]

LeBron has been the best player in the league since the middle of the 2005-06 season, IMO. Earlier than most people think, tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

shaq from 00-04, duncan in 05, wade in 06, lebron 07-10, dirk in 11, lebron 12-present

This, tbh, except I prolly have Shaq from 00-02 and then Duncan 03-05

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Also, i don't know why you keep discrediting that Suns team. The same team that was tied 2-2 with the spurs during their 07 series before Amare and Diaw were suspended.
It wasn't the same team you mongoloid sp!c, Amare was injured that year and Kurt Thomas wasn't healthy for the series either. Keep revising history.

[SupremeGuy]

For me? Prob 2006 or 2007.

[racm]

2007 Eastern Conference Finals.

Him getting swept by the Spurs in the Finals made sense - he had no reliable number 2 and that was statistically the most dominant Spurs title team.

[Koolaid_Man]

your an interesting person, how you say thats overrated ill never understand.. they were down by like 18 and no one was doing shit, guy turns it on and single handedly shit on the raptors, idc how bad they were if 1 guy scores 81 on you thats shameful..

give the suns some credit that team was pretty fucking good at the time... this guy is going down as one of the greatest whether you like it or not bra

I told yall before...midget is butthurt in chief over Kobe 5> TOSB 4.....it really I mean really gets under his skin....you guys should have been around here during the 2010 finals when we beat Boston...this fucking guy was hot dogging it for 3Q's...then when we won he got real quiet as did most Spur fans and then he tried to Congratulate Laker fan....you should have seen the size of the mud hole I stomped in his ass (and all Spur fan ass that night) I didn't want no congrats I made them bitches suck my dick online with tons of spit too :lol

[jimbo]

Not just that six game stretch. He was underwhelming for the majority of playoffs.

And Dirk didn't have a fluke playoff run. He was firmly in the MVP race until a mid-season injury sidelined him and it took him awhile to round back into form.

Underwhelming for half the playoffs tbh. He let Dwhistle take over vs the 76ers and then he took over vs Boston/Chicago. He was nails in those 2 series.

0eDjYYO-rAw

[whitemamba]

Suns were good at the time?

Jordan Isiah and Bird singlehandedly killed much better teams in the playoffs

Stop making retarded excuses


ouch

[whitemamba]

I told yall before...midget is butthurt in chief over Kobe 5> TOSB 4.....it really I mean really gets under his skin....you guys should have been around here during the 2010 finals when we beat Boston...this fucking guy was hot dogging it for 3Q's...then when we won he got real quiet as did most Spur fans and then he tried to Congratulate Laker fan....you should have seen the size of the mud hole I stomped in his ass (and all Spur fan ass that night) I didn't want no congrats I made them bitches suck my dick online with tons of spit too :lol

lol link to thread?

[midnightpulp]

That logic is stupid and for some reason people like to throw it around a lot on ST, "If you take away the things a player does well, he becomes a bad player" Well, no shit genius but things don't work like that, you can't discredit Kobe based on a negative event that didn't happen. Kobe had that 50 point game period.

24PPG/47% still is a good performance but as documented, Kobe averaged 28PPG/50% vs Phoenix.

Also, i don't know why you keep discrediting that Suns team. The same team that was tied 2-2 with the spurs during their 07 series before Amare and Diaw were suspended.

But it wasn't the same Suns' team that was tied with the Spurs, dipshit. Amare was injured in '06 and missed the playoffs. It's the only reason the Lakers were able to make it a 7 game series. The next year, they handled Kobe and Co. 4-1.

My point with removing the 50 point game is that Kobe wasn't consistent throughout the series. Not all PPGs are created equal, and you'd much rather have guy who averages 25 points per game by routinely scoring 20 to 30 points per game rather than 10 points one game and 40 the next. I speak as Spurs fan here watching Manu do that shit all the time. Scores 30, Spurs fans get all excited thinking we can count on a similar performance next game, and he follows it up by scoring 9. And it almost always hurts the Spurs.

And yes, Kobe is usually remarkably consistent in that regard, but in that series, he wasn't. The 50 point game made his overall line look better than he actually performed.

[midnightpulp]

your an interesting person, how you say thats overrated ill never understand.. they were down by like 18 and no one was doing shit, guy turns it on and single handedly shit on the raptors, idc how bad they were if 1 guy scores 81 on you thats shameful..

give the suns some credit that team was pretty fucking good at the time... this guy is going down as one of the greatest whether you like it or not bra

Why was it overrated?

Regular season.
Against the Raptors.
Kobe was still in the game up 17 with ~3 minutes left (aka, garbage time) and went on to score 7 more meaningless points, all from the freethrow line, because the crowd wanted to see an 80 point game.

I ain't just hating on Kobe for the sake of it. You want to tell me David Robinson's 71 point game and quad double during the regular were overrated. Feel free. I won't argue with you.

Any number of Kobe's 35 point games in the playoffs impress me more than 81 points vs. a terrible team in the regular season.

[LnGrrrR]

I know I'm obviously biased against him, but for me it was Game 6 against the Celtics last year. Just unreal.

Realistically though it was probably somewhere in 2010.

[Spurs_Be_Beastin']

tommorow.

[Grit and Grind]

07 fo sure . While Kobe cried his way for Pau . Lebron led Bobbie Gibson , Varejo and his dad to the promise land .