Lebron's reign maybe longer than I thought ...

[Killakobe81]

Man I know MJ is STILL GOAT ...

But has anyone made the game look easier than Lebron in his prime? Shaq? MJ had flawless footwork and a considerable athletic advantage over a "floor bound" NBA in the mid 80's early 90's ...
But JAmes can pretty much do much of MJ did ... but do other things like exquisite passing and floor vision ... and also bully through the lane that NO ONE else can do the way LBJ can.

I said it a few weks ago and I ll say it again here. IF Lebron gets close to (Mj 4 0r 5 rings) he will not only surpass Bryant/Duncan etc but will have an EXTREMELY strong case over Magic Kareem and POSSIBLY MJ ...

[Dinamita]

STFU faggot faker fan.

Kobe >>> Then queenbitch.

[Killakobe81]

OK I know this place is Lakers obsessed, but Lebron is doing his thang.
Guy cant miss even from 3point land, droppig dimes ...but yall would trather talk Dwight/Kobe drama.

Dude just hit another as atype this. I know eSPN sucks him off plenty but for an NBA forum not to even have a active thread ... is a shame. the guy is amazing.

[jeebus]

lol superfriends

:cry What should I do? :cry

Fuck lebronica.

[D-Wade]

Dude is far and way the best player in the league right now. Somehow he's found a 3 point shot too. Only question now is his clutchness. I'd still rather have Wade (or Allen) shooting that final shot.

[Clipper Nation]

Part of it tonight is that he's playing a team that hasn't had a fucking clue how to guard the three for like 3 years now... Vinny Del Negro needs to be fired ASAP...

[Killakobe81]

Niccas can hate if they want.

Dude is just so freaking gifted. he works hard. Sure has ego but shit if i was THAT good I would be the same ...minus The chosen one tattoo and speaking in third person ...
IF Im James I call off that engagement and IM going balls deep in new exotic pu$$ until I get older ...

[ElNono]

Lebron is boss, but it's different than MJ... MJ just had way more competitive fire... I don't see that on Lebron... Lebron though is way more athletic... dude can just do whatever he wants on pure raw power... he's without a doubt the best player in the league right now...

[Killakobe81]

Dude is far and way the best player in the league right now. Somehow he's found a 3 point shot too. Only question now is his clutchness. I'd still rather have Wade (or Allen) shooting that final shot.

IF you are just talking one shot with limited time ...I agree. But with enough time to drive and kick or shoot I take James over Kobe, melo durant whomever ...

[Venti Quattro]

Only question now is his clutchness. I'd still rather have Wade (or Allen) shooting that final shot.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Baron Davιs]

Has been the best for the last 3 years tbh

[HarlemHeat37]

Dude is far and way the best player in the league right now. Somehow he's found a 3 point shot too. Only question now is his clutchness. I'd still rather have Wade (or Allen) shooting that final shot.

Part of his clutch time problem was that he didn't have a reliable jump shot when teams backed off and locked in during clutch time..it's not a coincidence that he has been more "clutch" the past 2 years with an improved J, tbh..

Having Wade as another option obviously helps, he's the most clutch player of the post-Jordan era..

Ray Allen better make some clutch shots in the playoffs, he's horrible otherwise, tbh..

[Killakobe81]

Lebron is boss, but it's different than MJ... MJ just had way more competitive fire... I don't see that on Lebron... Lebron though is way more athletic... dude can just do whatever he wants on pure raw power... he's without a doubt the best player in the league right now...

Come on El you can say it dude is entering rarified "air" ...I also dont buy the Clips argument, Lebron has been on a roll. Plus is Bosh pretty much useless. He is a very good player. But Heat seem to play better without him (last year's playoffs and this year)

[Cry Havoc]

Dude is far and way the best player in the league right now. Somehow he's found a 3 point shot too. Only question now is his clutchness. I'd still rather have Wade (or Allen) shooting that final shot.

That's just it though. With LeBron, you have a very good chance of getting the highest possible % look from the floor on the final possession. If that means he's going to pass out of a triple team to a wide open sharpshooter, he's going to do it. Dude consistently makes the right decisions. Even if he doesn't score, he's making a clutch play.

[ElNono]

Come on El you can say it dude is entering rarified "air" ...I also dont buy the Clips argument, Lebron has been on a roll. Plus is Bosh pretty much useless. He is a very good player. But Heat seem to play better without him (last year's playoffs and this year)

It's different. MJ was a gambler... he hated to lose. It was in his gut.

Lebron is different. His drive is showing off he's the best, because he's athletically way beyond anybody else. He has also learned how to mix it up and do the little things to win.

They're both phenomenal in their own way.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol the Heat don't play better without Bosh..they completely dominated the playoffs once Bosh returned..

Miami appears better without him during the regular season, simply because Lebron and Wade realize they cannot coast if he's sitting, they need to play 100%..

[Killakobe81]

Part of his clutch time problem was that he didn't have a reliable jump shot when teams backed off and locked in during clutch time..it's not a coincidence that he has been more "clutch" the past 2 years with an improved J, tbh..

Having Wade as another option obviously helps, he's the most clutch player of the post-Jordan era..

Ray Allen better make some clutch shots in the playoffs, he's horrible otherwise, tbh..

Maybe but the last 2 years I have not been impressed. Dirk was batter in 2011 and other guys have cases. Wade still living off reputation and freebies to some extent ...Funny how Heat started to win when James deferred to Wade less. I was with you in2011 ... Lebron shrank in the clutch but Wade hasnt been all THAT clutch save a few isolated game winners ... but Kobe has those too yet everyone calls him overrated in the clutch.

Almost every clutch performer is overrated tbh ...Melo, Kobe, Dirk Pierce etc have all come up short more than be clutch the past few years ...

[Killakobe81]

:lol the Heat don't play better without Bosh..they completely dominated the playoffs once Bosh returned..

Miami appears better without him during the regular season, simply because Lebron and Wade realize they cannot coast if he's sitting, they need to play 100%..

Obviously they need him cuz they are thin up front, and he is a great mid-range shooter. But I would argue even florr spacing shooters or more valuable to the Heat ... BOsh played great in the 2011 Finals ... he was actually their most consistent player that series. But they lost .... they won last year because JAmes elevated his play and they killed it from 3 ...without the 3's that series is much tighter. Not sure what Bosh's finals numbers were but I was not impressed with him like in 2011

[Latarian Milton]

sombrero >>> hat

[Stalin]

he makes it look easy, because today's players are not as skilled, as when they were during mj's era, notice how prevalent monkeyballing is, if lebron played against jordan, mj would destroy him, and there would be no questions as to who GOAT is

[Koolaid_Man]

The day that Lebron see's defenders like Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen, and Bruce Bowen, Anthony Mason, and X-Man then come holla at me..until then get off his nut sack...not impressed with shit he's doing with no one elite defenders in today's game... it's unfortunate he played in this era but players like Rodman would have went knee deep in his ass....real talk

[HarlemHeat37]

Lebron is just a different look for the NBA, tbh..he's the ultimate role model, on and off the court..unlike Jordan, Lebron takes the challenge of guarding elite wings on a regular basis during the playoffs..unlike Jordan, Lebron plays pass-first basketball, team basketball..

Unlike Jordan, Lebron doesn't punch teammates and alienate them..unlike Jordan, Lebron doesn't have crutches in his personal life that result in the murder of his father..

It's just a different breed of superstar, tbh..

Jordan: terrible human being for many reasons, selfish player
Bryant: even worse than Jordan
Magic: routinely engaged in gay sex, potentially risking the health of his peers
Bird: Ugly white trash that was an asshole, according to most people IIRC

[ElNono]

The day that Lebron see's defenders like Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen, and Bruce Bowen, Anthony Mason, and X-Man then come holla at me..until then get off his nut sack...not impressed with shit he's doing with no one elite defenders in today's game... it's unfortunate he played in this era but players like Rodman would have went knee deep in his ass....real talk

Bowen defended Lebron... I know you just started to watch basketball a season or two ago, so you're excused...

[Killakobe81]

he makes it look easy, because today's players are not as skilled, as when they were during mj's era, notice how prevalent monkeyballing is, if lebron played against jordan, mj would destroy him, and there would be no questions as to who GOAT is

MJ is more skilled (so is Kobe) but neither are as dominant. MJ faced better skilled players but also less athletic ones. JAmes dominates a more athletic league with uber athleticism and elite skills. No knock to say that Mj has more skill than LBJ but not sure MJ could deal with James size. We all know MJ was a killer competitor and it took longer for James to get there. But Im not sure I would take MJ over James ...yes I said it. Right now I still lean Mj but JAmes is mking me reconsider

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Jordan's era had the weakest pool of perimeter talent of any era, tbh..

[ElNono]

Lebron is just a different look for the NBA, tbh..he's the ultimate role model, on and off the court..unlike Jordan, Lebron takes the challenge of guarding elite wings on a regular basis during the playoffs..unlike Jordan, Lebron plays pass-first basketball, team basketball..

Unlike Jordan, Lebron doesn't punch teammates and alienate them..unlike Jordan, Lebron doesn't have crutches in his personal life that result in the murder of his father..

It's just a different breed of superstar, tbh..

Jordan: terrible human being for many reasons, selfish player
Bryant: even worse than Jordan
Magic: routinely engaged in gay sex, potentially risking the health of his peers
Bird: Ugly white trash that was an asshole, according to most people IIRC

:lmao

tbh, you left out Isiah, who was Magic's sex partner...

[Stalin]

Lebron is boss, but it's different than MJ... MJ just had way more competitive fire... I don't see that on Lebron... Lebron though is way more athletic... dude can just do whatever he wants on pure raw power... he's without a doubt the best player in the league right now...


Co sign

[Ace]

I'm a big Wade fan but no way do I prefer anyone but Lebron with the last shot. He's much improved in every way that there's no doubt he is the far away best player on the Heat. Lebron with a jumper can get any shot he wants, it's just ridiculous watching this year.

[Killakobe81]

Like JVG just Lebron is at LEAST 260 pounds of chiseled muscle, with hops and speed.

Not saying James can keep this up he may not even pass Kobe but if he stays healthy he DOES have GOAT potential.

[Latarian Milton]

bron has been the league's best for 3yrs and he's become even better after the bitter loss in 11' finals tbh. nigga made some terrible decisions in that series against them mavs and it cost us the championship, which was like the last lesson for him before he established himself as the most complete basketball player the world has ever seen.

[Stalin]

MJ is more skilled (so is Kobe) but neither are as dominant. MJ faced better skilled players but also less athletic ones. JAmes dominates a more athletic league with uber athleticism and elite skills. No knock to say that Mj has more skill than LBJ but not sure MJ could deal with James size. We all know MJ was a killer competitor and it took longer for James to get there. But Im not sure I would take MJ over James ...yes I said it. Right now I still lean Mj but JAmes is mking me reconsider


mj wouldnt be guarding lebron full time, one is a sg other is sf, but mj would take over and shit all over lebron, who'd shrink like he did in finals against mavfan, mj would take it personal and make sure everyone knew hes best, sorry lebron is just a child playing a game to make millions, be popular and be liked, winning was life or death for mj

[irishock]

Basically James is the GOAT monkeyballer

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol Jordan's era had the weakest pool of perimeter talent of any era, tbh..

stop dreaming you crossed-eyed fool..Lebron ain't faced shit...don't even go there...no comparison between the MJ and Kobe defenders versus the weak defenders Bron see's day in and out...Lebron looks all-world in a watered down league..no one to check him...No elite big men to stop him at the rim like Shaq...do defenders like Rodman that would have made him actually work...no mailman to guard on the other end...I'm so NOT impressed...you clowns pining over this nigga is ridiculous and I question your basketball understanding...this clown has it easy...easy than MJ a Kobe...

don't make me start name dropping the defenders that MJ and Kobe faced....

[Holger Geschwindner]

LeBron ist ein talentes Unterarten, aber er war kein Spiel für meine kostbare Dirk. Während Mr. James mehr tribal Sportlichkeit haben können, kann nicht schießen die J oder Blitzkreig die Verteidigung bis sie kapitulieren wie Französisch.

[Stalin]

:lol Jordan's era had the weakest pool of perimeter talent of any era, tbh..


if you were capable of putting your love of lebronze aside you'd see how it really is

[Latarian Milton]

there's never a doubt MJ is the best player overall to ever play this game but their styles of play are sheer different. bron can dominate the game in various ways while jordan, albeit a better scorer and more clutch, cannot replicate the style of game lebron plays imho. bron can't be the 2nd coming of jordan either, but they're both the best players in their times respectively tbh

[ffadicted]

He won't be the GOAT, but obvious guaranteed top 10, could be top 5, and this is coming from a hater. Kid's got talent

[Latarian Milton]

the only player that can be better than today's bron is the bron of tomorrow's tbh

[HarlemHeat37]

Most people on this forum grew up watching 90s basketball..the nostalgia is rampant..

'91 Jordan is superior to any player in NBA history, including Lebron, but come on, his perimeter competition was terrible:lol..

[Stalin]

even though im not a big fan of kobe, hes got that nastiness lebron doenst have, that you need to maximize your talent, lebron relies on athletisism too much, it should be interesting to see how he deals with it once it starts to fade, hed have to get at least 6 titles to be compared to jordan, since he already admited he can't do it on his own and needs help by moving to miami, and jacking wades team

[Killakobe81]

:lol Jordan's era had the weakest pool of perimeter talent of any era, tbh..

Athletically, yes. AS Amb, Baseline and others have pointed out ... the guys he faced could shoot and pass better than the guards of today. But Harlem is right SG were undersized and not very athletic in a large majority of Jordan's prime. Look at the guys who defended him tough like Dumars or Dennis Johnson. ... fantastic players but neither were great athletes by today's standards.

[Killakobe81]

Most people on this forum grew up watching 90s basketball..the nostalgia is rampant..

'91 Jordan is superior to any player in NBA history, including Lebron, but come on, his perimeter competition was terrible:lol..

I agree Harlem, it's part of why he was so great ... at his position who could evem match him physically?! Drexler ... Majerle maybe. Ro blackmon, Mitch Ainge? those guys could score but MJ was way too quick and strong for those guys ...

[Stalin]

Most people on this forum grew up watching 90s basketball..the nostalgia is rampant..

'91 Jordan is superior to any player in NBA history, including Lebron, but come on, his perimeter competition was terrible:lol..


yes and this era's perimeter competition is good? with the no handchecking rule, you can just waltz to the basket, and now you dont even have to face the liks of ewing, robinson, hakeem shaq, etc. trying to put you down :lol we know you love lecrab to death and he's very good, this is true, but come on scrah :lol

[Killakobe81]

Too many in here get too warapped in personality and etc. So what if James or Kobe or KG are assholes or douches? they can ball that is what they get paid to do ...

Yall looking for role models. Sign up for a big brother maybe I will mentor you ...

[Killakobe81]

yes and this era's perimeter competition is good? with the no handchecking rule, you can just waltz to the basket, and now you dont even have to face the liks of ewing, robinson, hakeem shaq, etc. trying to put you down :lol we know you love lecrab to death and he's very good, this is true, but come on scrah :lol

Fair point. MJ did have to get through some good centers to attack the rim ... but the perimeter players of today ARE better than 90's

[Stalin]

Too many in here get too warapped in personality and etc. So what if James or Kobe or KG are assholes or douches? they can ball that is what they get paid to do ...

Yall looking for role models. Sign up for a big brother maybe I will mentor you ...


:lol

[Pelicans78]

Man I know MJ is STILL GOAT ...

But has anyone made the game look easier than Lebron in his prime? Shaq? MJ had flawless footwork and a considerable athletic advantage over a "floor bound" NBA in the mid 80's early 90's ...
But JAmes can pretty much do much of MJ did ... but do other things like exquisite passing and floor vision ... and also bully through the lane that NO ONE else can do the way LBJ can.

I said it a few weks ago and I ll say it again here. IF Lebron gets close to (Mj 4 0r 5 rings) he will not only surpass Bryant/Duncan etc but will have an EXTREMELY strong case over Magic Kareem and POSSIBLY MJ ...

Lebron is gifted but doesn't have MJ's scoring touch.

[Stalin]

Fair point. MJ did have to get through some good centers to attack the rim ... but the perimeter players of today ARE better than 90's


sure they are more athletic, but you cant stop these superstars one on one anyway, and game was more physical in the 90's, today's game is turning into soft euroball, you only as good as your competition and jordan had to beat far better teams than we have playing today

[Pelicans78]

Lebron is physically more gifted than anyone I've ever seen. Everything is easy for him.

[DMC]

Yeah, he makes it look easy for a game, for a season, for a couple seasons. Mike did it for a career, and it didn't look easy, it looked hard. Mike didn't have the size or athletic ability that Lebron has. When Lebron gets 6, let me know. Good? Damn right. GOAT? lol

Body of work, that's what you look at.

[DMC]

Lebron is physically more gifted than anyone I've ever seen. Everything is easy for him.

That's what your mom said about me.

[InRareForm]

Jordans best FG% for a season 53.9%

Right now Lebron is at 55.6%

[Bynumite]

OP obviously mispelled the word dick in the thread title and instead wrote reign, he's really hugging those nuts and never letting go :lol

[Stalin]

Jordans best FG% for a season 53.9%

Right now Lebron is at 55.6%


fascinating observation

[Jt.ONE]

Jordan shit on a lot of rugged and mean big men in his era without lebrons size, strength and athleticism. and today's game is way different than back in the day... LBJ would wear down so much quicker had he played in the 90's.

[spurraider21]

Lebron is gifted but doesn't have MJ's scoring touch.
What about every attribute besides scoring touch. Not that Lebron isn't a great scorer...

[scanry]

Lebron is boss, but it's different than MJ... MJ just had way more competitive fire... I don't see that on Lebron... Lebron though is way more athletic... dude can just do whatever he wants on pure raw power... he's without a doubt the best player in the league right now...

El, you're underestimating MJ. He will go down as the most athletically gifted player in all of sports. Along with the athleticism, he had a flawless game.

I just don't see another player surpassing MJ anytime soon. Dude had everything going his way tbh: Sponsors, Fans, Game, Clutchness, President Clinton, David Stern and the Refs. Ain't nobody goina top that.

[Cry Havoc]

What about every attribute besides scoring touch. Not that Lebron isn't a great scorer...

He's 55/40/73% this year. Not too shabby. If he improves his FT shooting he'll literally be the perfect player.

[stretch]

I think if you take Lebron and the way he is playing now, and replace him with MJ (assuming Lebron will continue improving on his jumper and post game, the way MJ did), those Bulls teams still win all 6 of those championships.

But replace Lebron on that 06-07 Cavs team with MJ? I don't think they make the finals. That is where MJ's extreme competitive fire may end up biting him in the butt. Somehow, Lebron's ability to score at will, but also keep his teammates confidence levels high by keeping them involved is what got them there. I believe MJ wouldn't have been able to deal with their ineptitude.

I think getting that trash Cavaliers team to the finals is one of the most impressive feats I have ever seen by a team leader.

[stretch]

El, you're underestimating MJ. He will go down as the most athletically gifted player in all of sports. Along with the athleticism, he had a flawless game.

This is when things get annoying about MJ. He wasn't flawless by any means. Fantastic, and the best player ever. But his status as GOAT is not untouchable like people try to act. He had an incredibly balanced team, a superstar that almost perfectly complimented him, and had his fair share of failures during several of his best years, before winning championships.

[stretch]

yes and this era's perimeter competition is good? with the no handchecking rule, you can just waltz to the basket

bull fucking shit

everyone still handchecks

its as stupid as people saying "but you can play zone today" because people found ways to play zone back when it was a violation

[Thebesteva]

STFU faggot faker fan.

Kobe >>> Then queenbitch.

Seriously, what kind of faggot shit is that to say Lebron will surpass Jordan and Kobe. Duncan for sure because he will be forgotten unanimously outside of SA spurs fans TBH

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Jordan has never won shit without Phil Jackson, tbh..

With Wade playing through injuries, Lebron's title run required him to play the primary scoring role, the defensive anchor role AND co-coach with Wade, tbh..

Jordan was a primary scorer, he allowed Pippen to defend the elite wing on the opposing team(although the 90s barely had any decent wings:lol), and he had the greatest coach of all-time and his system..a team that still had decent playoff success without Jordan..

Again, their leadership should be factored into the equation..Jordan was a piece of shit teammate that was lucky to have Phil Jackson managing the morale of the team..Lebron is the ideal teammate that everybody loves..

Lebron grew up without a father and dealt with a crack fiend mother..Jordan was lucky enough to grow up with a good father, yet he allowed him to die for his own personal demons..every fan boy can talk about Jordan's "fire and will", but Lebron clearly has more character and has dealt with more adversity, tbh..

[lefty]

@ByTimReynolds
LeBron has missed 10 shots in his last 12-1/2 quarters. Carmelo missed 13 tonight.

[HarlemHeat37]

We live in an era where Lebron was crucified for The Donation special, while guys that essentially killed their father, and guys that rape and snitch are celebrated:lol..Lebron had to have a historic title run to quiet the haters..if he loses this year, they will return immediately..

[HarlemHeat37]

bull fucking shit

everyone still handchecks

its as stupid as people saying "but you can play zone today" because people found ways to play zone back when it was a violation

:lol All you have to do is watch Indiana, Chicago, Memphis, Boston, Utah at home, etc..there is still an abundance of handchecking..

[lefty]

If prime MJ played today he would shit on everybody including LeBron

For fuck sake, he had a 53 pt game at age 40

[JingleJangleJingle]

His post game has improved and so has his jumper. The guy is laying the foundation to his game that will allow him to still be dominate once he loses a step.

[Killakobe81]

This is when things get annoying about MJ. He wasn't flawless by any means. Fantastic, and the best player ever. But his status as GOAT is not untouchable like people try to act. He had an incredibly balanced team, a superstar that almost perfectly complimented him, and had his fair share of failures during several of his best years, before winning championships.

Exactly Stretch.
I know MJ was a bball God in a time when many of you were kids ... but the canonization of MJ borders on the ridiculous. Maybe MJ is better than Lebron I still said he was GOAT but the MJ would shit on James rhetoric ischildish banter. The gap between the two is shrinking and when you watch JAmes develop the other parts of his game you can argue there are parts of Lebron's that has surpassed MJ.

Also I know the MVP award is horeshit ... but if voting isdone fairly Lebron wins again this year and will probably pull off the MVP/Finals MVP in backtoback years ...something many posters on here seem to give so much credence to.

[FkLA]

GOAT

[TDMVPDPOY]

If prime MJ played today he would shit on everybody including LeBron

For fuck sake, he had a 53 pt game at age 40

if he played today, there are better wing players today at his position for hiim to go up against

now back in the 90s, the so called jordan stoppers were all fkn scrubs who never or know to be defensive stoppers or appear on any defensive teams...

jordan is the most overrated and over glorify nba player who benefit from NIKE, and slow motion technology...

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol Jordan has never won shit without Phil Jackson, tbh..

With Wade playing through injuries, Lebron's title run required him to play the primary scoring role, the defensive anchor role AND co-coach with Wade, tbh..

Jordan was a primary scorer, he allowed Pippen to defend the elite wing on the opposing team(although the 90s barely had any decent wings:lol), and he had the greatest coach of all-time and his system..a team that still had decent playoff success without Jordan..

Again, their leadership should be factored into the equation..Jordan was a piece of shit teammate that was lucky to have Phil Jackson managing the morale of the team..Lebron is the ideal teammate that everybody loves..

Lebron grew up without a father and dealt with a crack fiend mother..Jordan was lucky enough to grow up with a good father, yet he allowed him to die for his own personal demons..every fan boy can talk about Jordan's "fire and will", but Lebron clearly has more character and has dealt with more adversity, tbh..

I want to address the bullshit in your post I will discuss the basketball later...

Phil only won in Chi because of MJ but what does it matter Bron has never and won't ever win without Pat Riley...see how stupid your view is? Especially since Pat didn't win anything until he brought Bron to Mia.

I for one could give a shit about how Lebron grew up...it won't change the fact that Lebron doesn't have the skill to stay in front of a prime MJ or Kobe. Maybe for a play or two but they would have attacked him mercilessly and what would Bron have done? We're talking players that has dropped 60 on people with ease. Let's put it this way Bron would foul out faster trying to guard these guys vs them trying to guard him. Bron only plays defense against PG's when a real player attacks him he routinely backs off. He would stand a chance against MJ and Kobe's agressive and psychotic desire to win ...Bron just isn't wired that way...

[TDMVPDPOY]

I want to address the bullshit in your post I will discuss the basketball later...

Phil only won in Chi because of MJ but what does it matter Bron has never and won't ever win without Pat Riley...see how stupid your view is? Especially since Pat didn't win anything until he brought Bron to Mia.

I for one could give a shit about how Lebron grew up...it won't change the fact that Lebron doesn't have the skill to stay in front of a prime MJ or Kobe. Maybe for a play or two but they would have attacked him mercilessly and what would Bron have done? We're talking players that has dropped 60 on people with ease. Let's put it this way Bron would foul out faster trying to guard these guys vs them trying to guard him. Bron only plays defense against PG's when a real player attacks him he routinely backs off. He would stand a chance against MJ and Kobe's agressive and psychotic desire to win ...Bron just isn't wired that way...

this is ignorance...bron is a better defender today compared to back then when he was a cavs...he is probably better defender then the wing defenders last few years...to say he cant keep up or contain kobe/mj is stupid, at best they be trading baskets, then how come the same logic cant be said the other way around? kobe/jordan defending lebon

[Koolaid_Man]

this is ignorance...bron is a better defender today compared to back then when he was a cavs...he is probably better defender then the wing defenders last few years...to say he cant keep up or contain kobe/mj is stupid, at best they be trading baskets, then how come the same logic cant be said the other way around? kobe/jordan defending lebon


You don't reason very well do you?

I said it would be easier for them to guard him vs the other way around...let me school you..see if you can keep up cuz imma go real fast here....:lolwhen not in transition for tomahawk dunks...Lebron likes to mainly score off screens...when being guarded straight up by a player of size he'll either pass or try to find a screen that will allow him to get an angle or cut to the basket for an easy score...with MJ or Kobe in front of him he can't screen off anything he has to crab dribble all the way to the basket or settle for the jumper...so to answer your question this is why MJ and Kobe would have the advantage...they have many moves to the basket...including a potent mid range and low post game...you're outta you're got dam mind if you think Lebron has a good low post game other than his power dunk when he has a clear path to the rim...Dude went to Hakeem for lessons ONLY after he saw Kobe go to Hakeem...and he still has busted up ass post game...

like Kobe said a few yrs back "I'd beat Lebron one on one in my sleep." - Kobe - and what's funny about that is Lebron never denied it :lol

Lebron just learned how to handle pressure...he just learned how to start taking the last shot when it counts...do you forget how just a year ago he refused to shoot when the game was on the line...ohh how quickly we forget...

[Koolaid_Man]

this is ignorance...bron is a better defender today compared to back then when he was a cavs...he is probably better defender then the wing defenders last few years...to say he cant keep up or contain kobe/mj is stupid, at best they be trading baskets, then how come the same logic cant be said the other way around? kobe/jordan defending lebon


this is pretty much how it would have routinely gone during Kobe's prime if Lebron was guarding him...again Lebron got burned by Kobe so what does he do on the last play..he ask's Tayshawn to guard Kobe...no way he could have kept up with a prime MJ or Kobe he would have simply given up...and MJ would have ripped his ass a new one way worse than Kobe would have....

Prime example --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l0AhR-LEfg

[Koolaid_Man]

Exactly Stretch.
I know MJ was a bball God in a time when many of you were kids ... but the canonization of MJ borders on the ridiculous. Maybe MJ is better than Lebron I still said he was GOAT but the MJ would shit on James rhetoric ischildish banter. The gap between the two is shrinking and when you watch JAmes develop the other parts of his game you can argue there are parts of Lebron's that has surpassed MJ.

Also I know the MVP award is horeshit ... but if voting isdone fairly Lebron wins again this year and will probably pull off the MVP/Finals MVP in backtoback years ...something many posters on here seem to give so much credence to.

I posted this in another thread for you but it belongs here as well:

Lebron is good...but I just don't see things the way you do...I don't feel like he's really earned anything...his path seems to easy compared to MJ and Kobe...and I cannot respect that...he's playing in a new era that is weak and cheap tbh....it really is a pussified league now...I mean when you got lebron's Mamma literally running onto the court to protect him which was bad enough and then him telling her to go sit her ass down...I probably will never respect the guy...plus he's not going through tough teams like MJ and Kobe did..

to me the early 90's Knicks teams was the greatest defensive team of all time. Starks, Gerald Wilkins, X-Man, Anthony Mason, Oakley, and Ewing...was sick as fuck on defense and nearly impossible to consistently score on. I just imagined replacing Ewing with Olajuwon....talk about fucking sick...even the Bad Boy's lead by Zeke...Rodman, Laimbeer, J-Salley, Mahorn, Dumars, Vinnie...MJ consistently lost to this team..these cats were hardcore...and it's the ultimate reason I give MJ the nod over Kobe...he just had to face some wicked ass defenses...and he overcame it too...bit it's widely agree'd by many coaches and GM's that Kobe is probably the only player today that could have played in that era given is penchant for throwing elbows and his toughness of playing through injuries with a game patterned after MJ's.

So while not the Pistons or Knicks...Kobe has faced his own level of teams and defenders that were pretty tough...starting with the Spurs that were anchored by the defensive presence of Tim Duncan with Bowen as a prime wing defender...also great wing defending teams such as the Kings and Trailblazzers. Kobe had to face individuals defenders such as prime Artest, Bowen, Shefalosa, Dahntay Jones, James Posey, Tayshaun, Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Tony Allen, Battier, Raja Bell, Stephen Jackson, Eric Snow...all great wing defenders when in their primes...especially Bowen...Kobe even had to deal with Pippen and Rodman...though not prime Pippen and Rodman...but he's had to earn his stripes through tough defenders...Rodman even pointed that out and said that's why he'd pick Mj and Kobe over Lebron...they've proven their toughness...Lebron just may be a victim of a WEAK ERA...

He's good but he doesn't have the mental make-up to deal with such teams as the Knicks and Pistons...or Spurs for that matter...a prime Lebron going against a prime Spurs team lead by Duncan gets swept in the finals...in our generation his game is tailored made for the Spurs team anchored by Duncan to defend and stop him...but they had a harder time trying to stop Kobe from his relentless offensive assualts on them...Lebron can't sustain that level of energy he's too big and doesn't have the array of moves MJ and Kobe has.

The question now is WHO HAS A PRIME LEBRON FACED?

What prime tough defensive teams has he gone through...To me his lone competitor at his positin (Melo) pretty much shits on him when they play one on one. Lebron won't take the Melo assignment but rather he defers to Battier...that's why I don't respect him...he's quick to jump all over D-Rose because he's physically bigger but when faced with a player of his own size (Melo) or a player who doens't respect him (Danny Granger) he starts to nut up. He will make the top 5 list if he wins 3 titles but as far as I'm concerned he's faced no real competition enroute to those titles (except a non-prime old and battered Boston team). When he had a clear chance to meet up with Kobe in the finals he faked an elbow injury when his cavs team could have beaten Boston. I just can't cut for this cat...he's not real to me....MJ and Kobe I give them their props as 1-2



http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/clear.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6349983&noquote=1)

[TDMVPDPOY]

You don't reason very well do you?

I said it would be easier for them to guard him vs the other way around...let me school you..see if you can keep up cuz imma go real fast here....:lolwhen not in transition for tomahawk dunks...Lebron likes to mainly score off screens...when being guarded straight up by a player of size he'll either pass or try to find a screen that will allow him to get an angle or cut to the basket for an easy score...with MJ or Kobe in front of him he can't screen off anything he has to crab dribble all the way to the basket or settle for the jumper...so to answer your question this is why MJ and Kobe would have the advantage...they have many moves to the basket...including a potent mid range and low post game...you're outta you're got dam mind if you think Lebron has a good low post game other than his power dunk when he has a clear path to the rim...Dude went to Hakeem for lessons ONLY after he saw Kobe go to Hakeem...and he still has busted up ass post game...

like Kobe said a few yrs back "I'd beat Lebron one on one in my sleep." - Kobe - and what's funny about that is Lebron never denied it :lol

Lebron just learned how to handle pressure...he just learned how to start taking the last shot when it counts...do you forget how just a year ago he refused to shoot when the game was on the line...ohh how quickly we forget...

lebron has a winning record against kobe, so tell me htf does kobe beats him in his sleep or whatever world his on

[Pelicans78]

I agree with Kool-Aid.

[TIMMYtoZO]

Lebron is a the icon of the NBA. Winning the title last year was bad news for the league. He has figured it out which has given him even more swagger. Durant will win the MVP due to the league wanting a new winner, but Lebron is dominating on a level Durant can only dream of. That moment when he told the Heat fan to pass the ball with more power was a touching moment. What a good guy.

[Lincoln]

How did he manage to lose to the Mavs though with wade and bosh? Was it Dallas perimeter defense along with Tyson, him choking, or just playing a bad series?

I never understood how he went from dominant to sub par in one series.

[Koolaid_Man]

lebron has a winning record against kobe, so tell me htf does kobe beats him in his sleep or whatever world his on

what does 1 on 1 have to do with team play....ohh that's right nothing...:lol

wtach this vid.... Lebron typically scores his points on Kobe's team..while Kobe scores his points on Lebron.....:lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2Ajrw16ZA

[TDMVPDPOY]

what does 1 on 1 have to do with team play....ohh that's right nothing...:lol

wtach this vid.... Lebron typically scores his points on Kobe's team..while Kobe scores his points on Lebron.....:lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2Ajrw16ZA

im not talkin about individual performances, im talkin about team h2h clown...both of those he owns against kobe

[stretch]

what does 1 on 1 have to do with team play....ohh that's right nothing...:lol

wtach this vid.... Lebron typically scores his points on Kobe's team..while Kobe scores his points on Lebron.....:lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2Ajrw16ZA

This post contradicts yourself in so many ways its not even funny.

[stretch]

How did he manage to lose to the Mavs though with wade and bosh? Was it Dallas perimeter defense along with Tyson, him choking, or just playing a bad series?

I never understood how he went from dominant to sub par in one series.

I believe it was a combo of the Mavs defense, and him not wanting to step on Wade's shoes. After game 1, it seemed like the Mavs were focused on one thing - not letting Lebron do anything. They directed so much defensive attention to him it was crazy, while they let Wade basically go one on one with whomever he wanted to, and the Mavs lived with it. I believe that they felt Lebron's ability to create for teammates was greater than what Wade could bring to the table, they they focused entirely on Lebron, and it worked.

The other thing is, the Heat was still viewed as "Wade's Team". I think if Lebron went into the series knowing that it was his team, and he went out and did whatever he wanted like he is doing now, the Heat would have had much more success. It just doesn't make sense for him to have so many clutch moments against strong defensive teams like the Celtics and Bulls, then go against the Mavs and suddenly he has a lot of dead moments. He just seemed non-aggressive at times, which I think is partly due to the abnormally high amount of defensive attention, but also he seemed to try to defer to Wade. Once he got past that mentality (this past year), we all see how easily he dominates the league now.

[Koolaid_Man]

This post contradicts yourself in so many ways its not even funny.

Please explain..I'm listening...

[D-Wade]

How did he manage to lose to the Mavs though with wade and bosh? Was it Dallas perimeter defense along with Tyson, him choking, or just playing a bad series?

I never understood how he went from dominant to sub par in one series.

Mental. Wade had been there before and thrived when he was there. Bron played in a Finals that no one expected him to win. And he was already developing the reputation of shrinking in the biggest moments.

If Lebron played just to half of his potential in 2011, with Wade playing as well as he was, we'd already have not one but two

[Koolaid_Man]

Mental. Wade had been there before and thrived when he was there. Bron played in a Finals that no one expected him to win. And he was already developing the reputation of shrinking in the biggest moments.

If Lebron played just to half of his potential in 2011, with Wade playing as well as he was, we'd already have not one but two

:lmao D-Whistle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da_M2crWscM&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[lefty]

if he played today, there are better wing players today at his position for hiim to go up against

now back in the 90s, the so called jordan stoppers were all fkn scrubs who never or know to be defensive stoppers or appear on any defensive teams...

jordan is the most overrated and over glorify nba player who benefit from NIKE, and slow motion technology...


Why do you guys keep bringing up wingers ?

MJ was a SG who played vs SG's

And some of the SGs MJ faced were no slouch


Mitch Richmond, Joe Dumars, Blackman gave MJ fits on both ends of the court

Starks was a pretty good defender, and yet MJ lit him up for 54 pts in the ECF



TBH, Lebron hasnt faced a lot of great defensive players in his career

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Dumars was like 6'1, as was John Starks..

Richmond was a good defender, but he was one of the only good defenders on the wing that possessed Jordan's size..

You can count early Rodman and certain defenders in the 80s, but I'm strictly referencing Jordan's title runs..

There are many defenders in this current era that would give Jordan more problems than the perimeter wings in the 90s, tbh..



:lol Koolaidman is delusional if he thinks I'm acually going to read everything he wrote, tbh..the fact that he mentions Kobe and has attempted to include him with Jordan is laughable..

[HarlemHeat37]

Miami had an elite defense for both Finals runs with Lebron anchoring the D and guarding the opposing team's best wing for long stretches..Iguodala, Pierce x2, Derrick Rose/Luol Deng, Danny Granger, Carmelo Anthony..he didn't guard Durant much, to be fair..

Jordan only guarded the opposing team's best wing for short stretches, Pippen almost always took the assignment..

Kobe has rarely guarded the opposing team's best, despite the beliefs of Al-Quobe..Rick Fox/Ariza/Artest always took the assignments..he shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument, tbh..

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not selling Wade short, btw, he's one of the best defensive 2-guards of all-time, but he was injured and he's too small to guard most of those SFs that Lebron had to guard..

[Ace]

How did he manage to lose to the Mavs though with wade and bosh? Was it Dallas perimeter defense along with Tyson, him choking, or just playing a bad series?

I never understood how he went from dominant to sub par in one series.
Miami relied completely on talent and defense all the way up to the finals. Mavs exposed Miami's lack of an offensive scheme outside of Isos and for as good as Miami's defense was, Dirk wouldn't be denied. Miami also had no bench, while the Mavs were deep and shooting lights out. Simply put, the Mavs played better as a team on both ends, exposing Miami.

[Lincoln]

Miami had an elite defense for both Finals runs with Lebron anchoring the D and guarding the opposing team's best wing for long stretches..Iguodala, Pierce x2, Derrick Rose/Luol Deng, Danny Granger, Carmelo Anthony..he didn't guard Durant much, to be fair..

Jordan only guarded the opposing team's best wing for short stretches, Pippen almost always took the assignment..

Kobe has rarely guarded the opposing team's best, despite the beliefs of Al-Quobe..Rick Fox/Ariza/Artest always took the assignments..he shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument, tbh..

How do you think Lebron would've done on dirk? It rarely happened that series. Although Haarlem and bosh and Anthony did nice on dirk, he had a very poor finals tbh despite the clutch game winners and crunch time points

[tenbeersbold]

Mavs knew exactly where to push Lebron to on the court to limit his effectiveness
No reason why someone cant do that again...MJ never had that achilles heel

[spurraider21]

I posted this in another thread for you but it belongs here as well:

Lebron is good...but I just don't see things the way you do...I don't feel like he's really earned anything...his path seems to easy compared to MJ and Kobe...and I cannot respect that...he's playing in a new era that is weak and cheap tbh....it really is a pussified league now...I mean when you got lebron's Mamma literally running onto the court to protect him which was bad enough and then him telling her to go sit her ass down...I probably will never respect the guy...plus he's not going through tough teams like MJ and Kobe did..

to me the early 90's Knicks teams was the greatest defensive team of all time. Starks, Gerald Wilkins, X-Man, Anthony Mason, Oakley, and Ewing...was sick as fuck on defense and nearly impossible to consistently score on. I just imagined replacing Ewing with Olajuwon....talk about fucking sick...even the Bad Boy's lead by Zeke...Rodman, Laimbeer, J-Salley, Mahorn, Dumars, Vinnie...MJ consistently lost to this team..these cats were hardcore...and it's the ultimate reason I give MJ the nod over Kobe...he just had to face some wicked ass defenses...and he overcame it too...bit it's widely agree'd by many coaches and GM's that Kobe is probably the only player today that could have played in that era given is penchant for throwing elbows and his toughness of playing through injuries with a game patterned after MJ's.

So while not the Pistons or Knicks...Kobe has faced his own level of teams and defenders that were pretty tough...starting with the Spurs that were anchored by the defensive presence of Tim Duncan with Bowen as a prime wing defender...also great wing defending teams such as the Kings and Trailblazzers. Kobe had to face individuals defenders such as prime Artest, Bowen, Shefalosa, Dahntay Jones, James Posey, Tayshaun, Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Tony Allen, Battier, Raja Bell, Stephen Jackson, Eric Snow...all great wing defenders when in their primes...especially Bowen...Kobe even had to deal with Pippen and Rodman...though not prime Pippen and Rodman...but he's had to earn his stripes through tough defenders...Rodman even pointed that out and said that's why he'd pick Mj and Kobe over Lebron...they've proven their toughness...Lebron just may be a victim of a WEAK ERA...

He's good but he doesn't have the mental make-up to deal with such teams as the Knicks and Pistons...or Spurs for that matter...a prime Lebron going against a prime Spurs team lead by Duncan gets swept in the finals...in our generation his game is tailored made for the Spurs team anchored by Duncan to defend and stop him...but they had a harder time trying to stop Kobe from his relentless offensive assualts on them...Lebron can't sustain that level of energy he's too big and doesn't have the array of moves MJ and Kobe has.

The question now is WHO HAS A PRIME LEBRON FACED?

What prime tough defensive teams has he gone through...To me his lone competitor at his positin (Melo) pretty much shits on him when they play one on one. Lebron won't take the Melo assignment but rather he defers to Battier...that's why I don't respect him...he's quick to jump all over D-Rose because he's physically bigger but when faced with a player of his own size (Melo) or a player who doens't respect him (Danny Granger) he starts to nut up. He will make the top 5 list if he wins 3 titles but as far as I'm concerned he's faced no real competition enroute to those titles (except a non-prime old and battered Boston team). When he had a clear chance to meet up with Kobe in the finals he faked an elbow injury when his cavs team could have beaten Boston. I just can't cut for this cat...he's not real to me....MJ and Kobe I give them their props as 1-2



http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/clear.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6349983&noquote=1)
:lol complaining Lebron defers assignments to battier
:lol Jordan played next to best wing defender of his era
:lol had pippen AND rodman in 2nd stint

[lefty]

There are many defenders in this current era that would give Jordan more problems than the perimeter wings in the 90s, tbh..



.

What :lmao

[TDMVPDPOY]

What :lmao

lol gerald wilkins

[stretch]

How do you think Lebron would've done on dirk? It rarely happened that series. Although Haarlem and bosh and Anthony did nice on dirk, he had a very poor finals tbh despite the clutch game winners and crunch time points

He didn't shoot the ball at a high % (3 of the games he shot well, the other 3 not), but he didn't have a poor finals by any means. Miami was scared shitless of him, focused most of their defense on him and it opened the floor up like crazy for his teammates. He rebounded solidly and got to the line quite a bit too.

[TDMVPDPOY]

He didn't shoot the ball at a high % (3 of the games he shot well, the other 3 not), but he didn't have a poor finals by any means. Miami was scared shitless of him, focused most of their defense on him and it opened the floor up like crazy for his teammates. He rebounded solidly and got to the line quite a bit too.

in a close game, i dont think it hurts if you shoot like shit when the both teams arent doing any scoring...u can afford to brick a new house, just hit the shots during the game when changes in momentum occurs...

[stretch]

Mavs knew exactly where to push Lebron to on the court to limit his effectiveness
No reason why someone cant do that again...MJ never had that achilles heel

Yes he did.

The Pistons played mind games with him for 3 straight years by talking shit to him non-stop and bullying him, knowing that his extreme competitive playing style would cause him to shut out his teammates. Not to mention he had some of his less memorable games against them.

[stretch]

Miami had an elite defense for both Finals runs with Lebron anchoring the D and guarding the opposing team's best wing for long stretches..Iguodala, Pierce x2, Derrick Rose/Luol Deng, Danny Granger, Carmelo Anthony..he didn't guard Durant much, to be fair..

Jordan only guarded the opposing team's best wing for short stretches, Pippen almost always took the assignment..

Kobe has rarely guarded the opposing team's best, despite the beliefs of Al-Quobe..Rick Fox/Ariza/Artest always took the assignments..he shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument, tbh..

:clap

this

[ginobilized]

Right now Lebron has won 1 in row
Long road ahead for him
He will never surpass Horry imo

[lefty]

Jordan never lost in the Finals TBH


He would have beaten the 2007 Spurs and the 2011 Mavs, obviously

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm not selling Wade short, btw, he's one of the best defensive 2-guards of all-time, but he was injured and he's too small to guard most of those SFs that Lebron had to guard..

:lol Hey numnuts...who are the small forwards Lebron has to guard?

[Ashy Larry]

Dude is far and way the best player in the league right now. Somehow he's found a 3 point shot too. Only question now is his clutchness. I'd still rather have Wade (or Allen) shooting that final shot.


no question ......

[Koolaid_Man]

Miami had an elite defense for both Finals runs with Lebron anchoring the D and guarding the opposing team's best wing for long stretches..Iguodala, Pierce x2, Derrick Rose/Luol Deng, Danny Granger, Carmelo Anthony..he didn't guard Durant much, to be fair..

Jordan only guarded the opposing team's best wing for short stretches, Pippen almost always took the assignment..

Kobe has rarely guarded the opposing team's best, despite the beliefs of Al-Quobe..Rick Fox/Ariza/Artest always took the assignments..he shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument, tbh..

:lmao:lol:lmao:rollin:rollin

[Koolaid_Man]

that made my day Harlem...thanks

[StrengthAndHonor]

I thought Kool brought some valid points outside of his constant Kobe fanboy remarks. Lebron never really had to face tough defenses in his winning career. Lebron faced Boston when they were past their prime. I thought Kobe faced the toughest defense perimeter any wing could face which was the 2008 Boston Celtics. Jordan had the Knicks and Pistons. Those teams were on another level. Better than any team Lebron has encountered.

[resistanze]

I thought Kool brought some valid points outside of his constant Kobe fanboy remarks. Lebron never really had to face tough defenses in his winning career. Lebron faced Boston when they were past their prime. I thought Kobe faced the toughest defense perimeter any wing could face which was the 2008 Boston Celtics. Jordan had the Knicks and Pistons. Those teams were on another level. Better than any team Lebron has encountered.

Huh? LeBron faced the 2008 Celtics and took them to 7 games on a much crappier team...

[Koolaid_Man]

I thought Kool brought some valid points outside of his constant Kobe fanboy remarks. Lebron never really had to face tough defenses in his winning career. Lebron faced Boston when they were past their prime. I thought Kobe faced the toughest defense perimeter any wing could face which was the 2008 Boston Celtics. Jordan had the Knicks and Pistons. Those teams were on another level. Better than any team Lebron has encountered.

yep..they got in my nigga ass...:hat James Posey, Tony Allen, Pail Pierce, Ray Allen...they had them niggas in rotation coming at Kobe in waves....incidentally that's something else MJ never had to face...that kind of defense along with 3 1st ballot HOF players including Rondo...Lebron ain't had to face shit...nigga been skating...the one time he faced a good team from the West on a consistent basis ended up with him being swept in the finals....Lebron would cry bloody murder in a hand check league...dude isn't built for it mentally and that's what separates him from MJ and Kobe... he'll even Reggie Miller faced tougher defenses than Lebron...

[StrengthAndHonor]

Huh? LeBron faced the 2008 Celtics and took them to 7 games on a much crappier team...

Lebron shot 55/155 in 7 games in that series good for % 35 which proved my point.

[StrengthAndHonor]

yep..they got in my nigga ass...:hat James Posey, Tony Allen, Pail Pierce, Ray Allen...they had them niggas in rotation coming at Kobe in waves....incidentally that's something else MJ never had to face...that kind of defense along with 3 1st ballot HOF players including Rondo...Lebron ain't had to face shit...nigga been skating...the one time he faced a good team from the West on a consistent basis ended up with him being swept in the finals....Lebron would cry bloody murder in a hand check league...dude isn't built for it mentally and that's what separates him from MJ and Kobe... he'll even Reggie Miller faced tougher defenses than Lebron...

I thought mentally, LeBron WAS a midget for sure. But after winning his championship that's yesterday's news. A matter of fact he's playing better this season which is absurd! There's no stopping him now for a few more years.

[DeadlyDynasty]

LeBron and Wade were reppin' the 305 today...respect.

[resistanze]

Lebron shot 55/155 in 7 games in that series good for % 35 which proved my point.

Well, no it didn't and had really nothing to do with your original point. You made it sound like Kobe had to face the 2008 Celtics historic defense while LeBron didn't, when he in fact did. His poor shooting against the 2008 Celtics (like Kobe) is besides the point (and LeBron was able to drop 45 points on 48% shooting in game 7). Kobe shot 49/118 for 41% including 131-92 in that NBA Finals, so I still don't get your overall point.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Well, no it didn't and had really nothing to do with your original point. You made it sound like Kobe had to face the 2008 Celtics historic defense while LeBron didn't, when he in fact did.


I shouldve been more clear. I was typing on my phone and I hate typing things in details sometimes using it. What I mean is that Lebron never had to face a team like the Celtics during his championship year which was last year or even the previous year. He had a pretty easy path to the Finals for the most part of his career.



(and LeBron was able to drop 45 points on 48% shooting in game 7). .

Irrelevant. Kobe scored 36 points on 60% shooting in Game 3, so what? Both loss. I was actually praising the Boston Celtics defense tbh and both Lebron and Kobe's performances in that season proved it.

[resistanze]

I shouldve been more clear. I was typing on my phone and I hate typing things in details sometimes using it. What I mean is that Lebron never had to face a team like the Celtics during his championship year which was last year or even the previous year. He had a pretty easy path to the Finals for the most part of his career.
Well this entire point is moot by bringing up the 2008 Celtics considering this isn't an example of a successful Kobe championship run. The following year when Kobe won a ring he went through the Jazz, Rockets, Nuggets and Magic. If anything you're arguing against both LeBron and Kobe.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Its not moot. Kobe faced the Celtics again and won the second time in the Finals. Sure it wasn't the 2008 Celtics, but that 2010 team was still excellent. They ranked 3rd and 2nd in both defensive rating and points allowed in the post season.

[resistanze]

Its not moot. Kobe faced the Celtics again and won the second time in the Finals. Sure it wasn't the 2008 Celtics, but that 2010 team was still excellent. They ranked 3rd and 2nd in both defensive rating and points allowed in the post season.
Which of course, has to do with the 2010 Celtics, not the 2008 Celtics.

And the 2011 Celtics (that LeBron's Heat spanked in 5 games) had a better defensive rating, better Opponent PPG and a better overall record than the 2010 Celtics. So yes I still see your overall point as moot.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Rd
Which of course, has to do with the 2010 Celtics, not the 2008 Celtic

And the 2011 Celtics (that LeBron's Heat spanked in 5 games) had a better defensive rating, better Opponent PPG and a better overall record than the 2010 Celtics. So yes I still see your overall point as moot.

2011 Celtics were relics. Go fuck yourself.

[resistanze]

Rd

2011 Celtics were relics. Go fuck yourself.
:lol I was waiting for you to give up on your idiotic takes and resort to name calling. Good game.

[StrengthAndHonor]

So idiotic you cant resist from quoting me. Suck a dong faggot and wipe that vaseline residue off your ass.

[resistanze]

So a summary of this convo:

Dumbass: Unlike Kobe, LeBron never had to face a team like the 2008 Celtics!
Me: ...LeBron faced the 2008 Celtics too.
Dumbass: But he shot poorly from the field!
Me: That wasn't your argument, and so did Kobe.
Dumbass: What I meant was LeBron never had to face a team like the 2008 Celtics in a Championship year!
Me: Well since Kobe also lost to the 2008 Celtics, it wasn't a championship year for him either.
Dumbass: But Kobe beat the 2010 Celtics!
Me: What does that have to do with the 2008 Celtics? And Lebron beat the 2011 Celtics that were statistically better.
Dumbass: Go fuck yourself!

:lol Dumbass

[StrengthAndHonor]

:lol @ cliffnotes as if people give a damn. Butthurt recipient at its most excruciating pain. :lol

[Latarian Milton]

mavs had big daddy TC covering up the paint for them which gave them a solid foundation to build everything upon. mavs played better as a team and it paid off for them, but it doesn't mean we didn't have a chance. mavs were underdogs in that series and we apparently had the upperhand after beating them in game 3, but we blew our chance away tbh

[resistanze]

:lol @ cliffnotes as if people give a damn. Butthurt recipient at its most excruciating pain. :lol


:lol From trying to defend shitty takes to vehement name calling
:lol Calling anyone butthurt
:lol Foaming at the mouth
:lol Moving goalposts
:lol Just a bad human being

[Ace]

resistanze dominating the niggas he's supposed too.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Yo my nigga Ace, ill see you at Vanessa's tonight. She'll have a keg tbh.

[StrengthAndHonor]

:lol From trying to defend shitty takes to vehement name calling
:lol Calling anyone butthurt
:lol Foaming at the mouth
:lol Moving goalposts
:lol Just a bad human being
I can call you whatever I want and theres nothing you can do about it but quote me and follow me like a bitch in heat.:lol

[TIMMYtoZO]

Yo my nigga Ace, ill see you at Vanessa's tonight. She'll have a keg tbh.

Uhhh, no you won't.
:lol at you inviting yourself to Vanessa's.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Uhhh, no you won't.
:lol at you inviting yourself to Vanessa's.

:lol. I'll still be there though. See you fellas soon.

[Latarian Milton]

He didn't shoot the ball at a high % (3 of the games he shot well, the other 3 not), but he didn't have a poor finals by any means. Miami was scared shitless of him, focused most of their defense on him and it opened the floor up like crazy for his teammates. He rebounded solidly and got to the line quite a bit too.
we simply had no one to stop him when he went hot. dirk had a great series against us overall but his performance in game 6 was rather poor tbh. dude played nerverously like a virgin bitch who was about to have sex for the first time in her life, which rekindled the memory of 06' series where he missed the FTs and choked the series away, thankfully he had some solid role players this time who stood up big and rescued his team

[Arcadian]

Lebron is already greater than Kobe. However, I don't see him surpassing Duncan, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, or Jordan. So his ceiling is #6 of all time.

We can already measure his ranking fairly well because his 2012 season will probably be his best in the end. So all you have to do is compare his best year with the other legends' best years.

62 Wilt, 71 Kareem, 91 Jordan, 2000 Shaq, and 2003 Duncan > 2012 James > 2006 Kobe (or any year)

[StrengthAndHonor]

Lebron is already greater than Kobe. However, I don't see him surpassing Duncan, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, or Jordan. So his ceiling is #6 of all time.

We can already measure his ranking fairly well because his 2012 season will probably be his best in the end. So all you have to do is compare his best year with the other legends' best years.

62 Wilt, 71 Kareem, 91 Jordan, 2000 Shaq, and 2003 Duncan > 2012 James > 2006 Kobe (or any year)

He'll pass everyone in that list except Jordan. He won't replace Magic or Kareem.

[resistanze]

I can call you whatever I want and theres nothing you can do about it but quote me and follow me like a bitch in heat.:lol

That's what you're working with now huh? :lol There's still time to leave this thread and act like it never existed, tbh.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol:lol:lol resistanze, the most underrated poster on ST, BODYING niggas, tbh..

T2Z follows it with the 35-foot dagger with the shot clock running down, with Bump in the crowd, tbh..if he really wanted to finish you, he'd add a Clippers/Lakers prediction:lol..

[Clipper Nation]

:lol @ cliffnotes as if people give a damn. Butthurt recipient at its most excruciating pain. :lol

Your takes are top-5 shittiest on ST, tbh...

[resistanze]

From the terrible takes...to the emotional outburst...to the fruitless use of laughing emoticons to appear unfazed...to being shut out of Vanessa's party by T2Z... and claiming he's still coming...this might be historic levels of fail in one thread.

[Clipper Nation]

From the terrible takes...to the emotional outburst...to the fruitless use of laughing emoticons to appear unfazed...to being shut out of Vanessa's party by T2Z... and claiming he's still coming...this might be historic levels of fail in one thread.

He really needs to switch his favorite team from the Clippers to his actual team, the Lakers, because his shitty takes and horrible attempts to play them off as jokes is embarrassing to real Clipperfans, tbh...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yo my nigga Ace, ill see you at Vanessa's tonight. She'll have a keg tbh.

:lol thinking you're going to Vanessa's with me, Jerry, and Daunte

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Uhhh, no you won't.
:lol at you inviting yourself to Vanessa's.

:lol Daunte beat me to it

[Clipper Nation]

:lol StrengthAndHonor creeping on Vanessa in addition to his shitful takes

[Ice009]

Phil only won in Chi because of MJ but what does it matter Bron has never and won't ever win without Pat Riley...see how stupid your view is? Especially since Pat didn't win anything until he brought Bron to Mia.


Why did the Bulls have a chance of beating the Knicks in '94 without MJ then? Knicks made the finals, and the Bulls could have beaten them without MJ. Phil Jackson was a pretty darn good coach.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Damn you guys really take these e-reps seriously :lol internet high fives and all.

[StrengthAndHonor]

He really needs to switch his favorite team from the Clippers to his actual team, the Lakers, because his shitty takes and horrible attempts to play them off as jokes is embarrassing to real Clipperfans, tbh...
Oh stfu already Clippers/Kings/Patriots/Suns/Ravens/Suns fan. You shouldve stopped from Loy Vaught's #1 fan schtick. #RealClippersfan:lol

[NRHector]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C62zHgyt9cU
Man I know MJ is STILL GOAT ...

But has anyone made the game look easier than Lebron in his prime? Shaq? MJ had flawless footwork and a considerable athletic advantage over a "floor bound" NBA in the mid 80's early 90's ...
But JAmes can pretty much do much of MJ did ... but do other things like exquisite passing and floor vision ... and also bully through the lane that NO ONE else can do the way LBJ can.

I said it a few weks ago and I ll say it again here. IF Lebron gets close to (Mj 4 0r 5 rings) he will not only surpass Bryant/Duncan etc but will have an EXTREMELY strong case over Magic Kareem and POSSIBLY MJ ...

[Stalin]

did the hidden kobe fanboy strength and honour just meltdown there?

[Stalin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C62zHgyt9cU



:lol:lol:lol

[ElNono]

:lol:lol:lol resistanze, the most underrated poster on ST, BODYING niggas, tbh..

T2Z follows it with the 35-foot dagger with the shot clock running down, with Bump in the crowd, tbh..if he really wanted to finish you, he'd add a Clippers/Lakers prediction:lol..

:lol

[ElNono]

:lol thinking you're going to Vanessa's with me, Jerry, and Daunte

sup Tayshawn? :lol

[DMC]

blah blah blah what the fuck ever no one in the league today is even close to Jordan and if Kobe isn't Lebron sure as hell isnt. Potential? Yes. That's all.

[Killakobe81]

Lebron is already greater than Kobe. However, I don't see him surpassing Duncan, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, or Jordan. So his ceiling is #6 of all time.

We can already measure his ranking fairly well because his 2012 season will probably be his best in the end. So all you have to do is compare his best year with the other legends' best years.

62 Wilt, 71 Kareem, 91 Jordan, 2000 Shaq, and 2003 Duncan > 2012 James > 2006 Kobe (or any year)

LOL so much fail, his peak maybe better but career wise no he has not passed Kobe yet ...

And if he stays healthy he will pass Duncan because Kobe is above Tim regardless ...

[Killakobe81]

I posted this in another thread for you but it belongs here as well:

Lebron is good...but I just don't see things the way you do...I don't feel like he's really earned anything...his path seems to easy compared to MJ and Kobe...and I cannot respect that...he's playing in a new era that is weak and cheap tbh....it really is a pussified league now...I mean when you got lebron's Mamma literally running onto the court to protect him which was bad enough and then him telling her to go sit her ass down...I probably will never respect the guy...plus he's not going through tough teams like MJ and Kobe did..

to me the early 90's Knicks teams was the greatest defensive team of all time. Starks, Gerald Wilkins, X-Man, Anthony Mason, Oakley, and Ewing...was sick as fuck on defense and nearly impossible to consistently score on. I just imagined replacing Ewing with Olajuwon....talk about fucking sick...even the Bad Boy's lead by Zeke...Rodman, Laimbeer, J-Salley, Mahorn, Dumars, Vinnie...MJ consistently lost to this team..these cats were hardcore...and it's the ultimate reason I give MJ the nod over Kobe...he just had to face some wicked ass defenses...and he overcame it too...bit it's widely agree'd by many coaches and GM's that Kobe is probably the only player today that could have played in that era given is penchant for throwing elbows and his toughness of playing through injuries with a game patterned after MJ's.

So while not the Pistons or Knicks...Kobe has faced his own level of teams and defenders that were pretty tough...starting with the Spurs that were anchored by the defensive presence of Tim Duncan with Bowen as a prime wing defender...also great wing defending teams such as the Kings and Trailblazzers. Kobe had to face individuals defenders such as prime Artest, Bowen, Shefalosa, Dahntay Jones, James Posey, Tayshaun, Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Tony Allen, Battier, Raja Bell, Stephen Jackson, Eric Snow...all great wing defenders when in their primes...especially Bowen...Kobe even had to deal with Pippen and Rodman...though not prime Pippen and Rodman...but he's had to earn his stripes through tough defenders...Rodman even pointed that out and said that's why he'd pick Mj and Kobe over Lebron...they've proven their toughness...Lebron just may be a victim of a WEAK ERA...

He's good but he doesn't have the mental make-up to deal with such teams as the Knicks and Pistons...or Spurs for that matter...a prime Lebron going against a prime Spurs team lead by Duncan gets swept in the finals...in our generation his game is tailored made for the Spurs team anchored by Duncan to defend and stop him...but they had a harder time trying to stop Kobe from his relentless offensive assualts on them...Lebron can't sustain that level of energy he's too big and doesn't have the array of moves MJ and Kobe has.

The question now is WHO HAS A PRIME LEBRON FACED?

What prime tough defensive teams has he gone through...To me his lone competitor at his positin (Melo) pretty much shits on him when they play one on one. Lebron won't take the Melo assignment but rather he defers to Battier...that's why I don't respect him...he's quick to jump all over D-Rose because he's physically bigger but when faced with a player of his own size (Melo) or a player who doens't respect him (Danny Granger) he starts to nut up. He will make the top 5 list if he wins 3 titles but as far as I'm concerned he's faced no real competition enroute to those titles (except a non-prime old and battered Boston team). When he had a clear chance to meet up with Kobe in the finals he faked an elbow injury when his cavs team could have beaten Boston. I just can't cut for this cat...he's not real to me....MJ and Kobe I give them their props as 1-2



http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/clear.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6349983&noquote=1)

SOme great points, Kool. But even if he is the best in a watered down league he si still the best. And sure Lebron did not beat a team likeDuncan's Spurs or Ewings Knicks ... Lebron story is not finished. Right now there is no team that is on their level so he does have that part a bit easy. the closest we could say is when he faced the 2008 Celts .... hopefully some team will rise to challenge him. Not sure OKC has enough ...

But I think despite some bitch-made in his DNA ...he still has overcome that to be a POTENTIAL GOAT he just still needs to win more chips.

As a side note ...I know Harlem is biased, but Lebron could do more to attract less hate by stoppingt he bull-shit attention grabs. Like the Dunk contest? tweet ... why does he keep teasing that shit?! Why not just leave it alone? ESPN already sucks him off how much more does he need?

Lebron deserved some of the Heat for the Decision special, and for not bringing guys to him instead of joining Wade. KAreem at least won a title before he jumped ship ... and so when his all-time ranking is debateed Im sure not ringing in Cleveland (not saying with the teams he had, just saying he failed to ring there and he would of if he stayed). will have to be factored in.

Some folks give him props for making the Finals with Cleveland I dont ...the East was weak. I give him praise FPOR THE WAY he did it. That eCF performance when he scored all of those points vs. the Pistons was up there with the best MJ, Nique, Bird, Magic, kobe duncan, kareem or HAkeem performance I have ever seen. As a Laker fan I was hoping he would not put it all together like he is doing now at least until we were no longer contenders ... but signs point to him maximimizing his prodigous talent this year.

I fully expect Lebron to win this year ... but can he keep it up? that is the question. Remember MJ had to shut it down after winning 3 straight titles twice. If Lebron can win 4 straight or 4 out of the next 5 (including last year) he will get some GOAT status support and he will deserve it.

[stretch]

91 Jordan = 2012 James > 2006 Kobe (or most any year), 62 Wilt, 71 Kareem, 91 Jordan, 2000 Shaq, and 2003 Duncan

fify

[Clipper Nation]

did the hidden kobe fanboy strength and honour just meltdown there?

Hidden? :lol

[ezau]

Lebron in the Finals= 1/3
MJ= 6/6

Thread over bitches

[Killakobe81]

Lebron in the Finals= 1/3
MJ= 6/6

Thread over bitches

I get for some that is the end all ... but if Lebron gets 5 out of 7 ... (FINALS) he will have a strong case.

The reason I am a bigger Lebron "fan" this year as opposed to last (i would say defender supporter instead) is .... unlike Shaq and Dirk who got fat and lazy after winning their first title, LEbron came back BETTER. That is what MJ did, Magic, Bird, Kobe, duncan did. Sure Shaq still won but he had a chance to be historic like James is doing right now. Liek I said at the beginning even MJ nor Kobe in his prime made ball look this easy.

Lebron has my ultimate respect ...

[stretch]

Lebron in the Finals= 1/3
MJ= 6/6

Thread over bitches

MJ also had some pretty loaded teams and everyone knew that they would win every series they were in.

Lebron's finals appearance with the Cavs should practically not count, considering that POS team he had around him.

The Finals against the Mavs is more understandable to use against Lebron, although it is pretty evident now that it was heavily a case of lack of chemistry (and a Mavs team firing on all cylinders) as the reason they lost more than anything. It took MJ several years with the core he had (Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Cartwright) till he got enough chemistry with his teammates to finally put them over the top (which included a number of early playoff flamouts). Lebron got there in the first year with his core, and was very close to winning it.

I'd say it's more impressive to get to the finals and lose, than to not make it to the finals at all, with a team that has finals level talent. And MJ had more than enough talent to get to the finals more than once, but they kept flaming out against the Pistons, because they knew how to play a mind game with him.

All this "MJ = Jesus" crap is getting annoying. He is the GOAT, but he wasn't flawless at all. He had plenty of failures, just like every single great player ever.

[whitemamba]

lebron is just on a tear right now, but he is an athletic machine.. no one has that frame, speed, power... im sorry untill he develops a solid out side shot, and rangs a few more times, thats when the discussion begins. lots of his baskets are layups/dunks etc.. whats going to happen when his body slows down..

[stretch]

lebron is just on a tear right now, but he is an athletic machine.. no one has that frame, speed, power... im sorry untill he develops a solid out side shot, and rangs a few more times, thats when the discussion begins. lots of his baskets are layups/dunks etc.. whats going to happen when his body slows down..

Um, Lebron already has developed an outside shot, as well as a post game. Just like MJ did before he started to slow down. And those aspects of his are continuing to improve, just like MJ's did too.

[whitemamba]

Um, Lebron already has developed an outside shot, as well as a post game. Just like MJ did before he started to slow down. And those aspects of his are continuing to improve, just like MJ's did too.

i havent really watched a lot of miami games, but from the ones ive seen he just goes to the rack.. over and over and over again, there will be a jumper that he will make here and there, but mainly attacks the basket. which is fine, what ever gets it done. and this post game you speak of, is just being stronger than the guy defending him, thats a monkey-esque attribute.. MJ had a consistent jumper, a great back to the basket game as well.. i dont think lebron has that yet.

[stretch]

i havent really watched a lot of miami games, but from the ones ive seen he just goes to the rack.. over and over and over again, there will be a jumper that he will make here and there, but mainly attacks the basket. which is fine, what ever gets it done. and this post game you speak of, is just being stronger than the guy defending him, thats a monkey-esque attribute.. MJ had a consistent jumper, a great back to the basket game as well.. i dont think lebron has that yet.

I don't think his size and strength will ever leave him. His leaping and speed will subside, but even when it does, he will still probably be one of the 5-10 most athletic players in the league, instead of the indisputed #1 by a longshot like he currently is.

[whitemamba]

I don't think his size and strength will ever leave him. His leaping and speed will subside, but even when it does, he will still probably be one of the 5-10 most athletic players in the league, instead of the indisputed #1 by a longshot like he currently is.

only time will tell

[irishock]

I don't think his size and strength will ever leave him.

Stern said NBA is starting PED testing next season

[whitemamba]

Stern said NBA is starting PED testing next season

:downspin:

[Lincoln]

Uhhh, no you won't.
:lol at you inviting yourself to Vanessa's.

:rollin

[stretch]

only time will tell

lol okay...

[D-Wade]

He was 36% from 3 last year. 41% this year. That's an amazing improvement. His mid-range game has improved, too.

Sure shooting like he did in Game 6 against the Celtics is an aberration but you can no longer say this guy doesn't have a J.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the only difference from this season to last year is just better efficiency, i dont see how that is worthy of mvp...he has to either lead his team to the best record in the league to win another mvp besides those high efficiency stats....but currently no player in the league is playing like he is atm, durant has fallen off and a distant 2nd with many guys behind him knockin on his door

[ezau]

MJ also had some pretty loaded teams and everyone knew that they would win every series they were in.

Lebron's finals appearance with the Cavs should practically not count, considering that POS team he had around him.

The Finals against the Mavs is more understandable to use against Lebron, although it is pretty evident now that it was heavily a case of lack of chemistry (and a Mavs team firing on all cylinders) as the reason they lost more than anything. It took MJ several years with the core he had (Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Cartwright) till he got enough chemistry with his teammates to finally put them over the top (which included a number of early playoff flamouts). Lebron got there in the first year with his core, and was very close to winning it.

I'd say it's more impressive to get to the finals and lose, than to not make it to the finals at all, with a team that has finals level talent. And MJ had more than enough talent to get to the finals more than once, but they kept flaming out against the Pistons, because they knew how to play a mind game with him.

All this "MJ = Jesus" crap is getting annoying. He is the GOAT, but he wasn't flawless at all. He had plenty of failures, just like every single great player ever.

I guess people already forgot how Lebron bolted out of Cleveland because he couldn't win on his own. I'd say the 2011 Heat team was more loaded than anything that Jordan ever had. Both Wade and Bosh are Top 15 players in the league in 2011, yet they lost to the Mavs who only had one superstar. Jordan's Bulls and Shaq's Lakers would have destroyed the 2011 Mavs team in five games tops.

Lebron has been the best player in the league since 2008, yet he only won the ship last year and he even needed the help of Wade and Bosh to do it. Not only that, he beat an OKC team that almost lost to an aging and past-their-prime Spurs's squad. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is far and away the best player in the league right now, but let's not get carried away comparing him to Jordan yet.

[ezau]

I get for some that is the end all ... but if Lebron gets 5 out of 7 ... (FINALS) he will have a strong case.

The reason I am a bigger Lebron "fan" this year as opposed to last (i would say defender supporter instead) is .... unlike Shaq and Dirk who got fat and lazy after winning their first title, LEbron came back BETTER. That is what MJ did, Magic, Bird, Kobe, duncan did. Sure Shaq still won but he had a chance to be historic like James is doing right now. Liek I said at the beginning even MJ nor Kobe in his prime made ball look this easy.

Lebron has my ultimate respect ...

Lebron was already very good, but there's no way that he'll get out of the East if stayed in Cleveland. Heck, his Cleveland team couldn't even beat the Magic in 2009:lol All this respect for Lebron is a result of him bolting out of Cleveland so he could win a ring the easy way.

[ezau]

i havent really watched a lot of miami games, but from the ones ive seen he just goes to the rack.. over and over and over again, there will be a jumper that he will make here and there, but mainly attacks the basket. which is fine, what ever gets it done. and this post game you speak of, is just being stronger than the guy defending him, thats a monkey-esque attribute.. MJ had a consistent jumper, a great back to the basket game as well.. i dont think lebron has that yet.

Not to mention MJ had superior footwork compared to Lebron. I still think Lebron has to surpass Kobe's achievements first before being compared to MJ.

[FlaSpursFan]

I used to be a Lerbron hater mostly because most of my extended family lives in the ohio valley area and they were cavs fans, but over time I have realized that I just cant deny his greatness. He is the best player that I have seen (Started really paying attention to basketball in the late 90s). What he does can not be replicated by a single other player that I have seen play.

[midnightpulp]

lebron is just on a tear right now, but he is an athletic machine.. no one has that frame, speed, power... im sorry untill he develops a solid out side shot, and rangs a few more times, thats when the discussion begins. lots of his baskets are layups/dunks etc.. whats going to happen when his body slows down..

Lebron will be a great player until his mid-30s. I think his otherworldly combination of speed, athleticism, and size obscures the fact that he is a very fundamentally sound player with a sky-high basketball IQ. Sure, he might not be able to score 30 at will by the time he's 35, but he will still be a top 5-10 player in the NBA and a consistent 25-8-8 threat every night. And even if he sustains some of type of injury that greatly affects athleticism, it still won't take away his passing ability and height, which like Magic, not the most athletic player, allows him to see over opposing defenses with relative ease. If something does happen to Lebron's athleticism, he would transition from scorer to playmaker and be something like a 19ppg, 7rpg, 10-11apg type of player, and would probably still be in the MVP discussion.

[whitemamba]

Lebron will be a great player until his mid-30s. I think his otherworldly combination of speed, athleticism, and size obscures the fact that he is a very fundamentally sound player with a sky-high basketball IQ. Sure, he might not be able to score 30 at will by the time he's 35, but he will still be a top 5-10 player in the NBA and a consistent 25-8-8 threat every night. And even if he sustains some of type of injury that greatly affects athleticism, it still won't take away his passing ability and height, which like Magic, not the most athletic player, allows him to see over opposing defenses with relative ease. If something does happen to Lebron's athleticism, he would transition from scorer to playmaker and be something like a 19ppg, 7rpg, 10-11apg type of player, and would probably still be in the MVP discussion.

good take tbh