Live 8

[smeagol]

As I said a couple of months ago in a thread where Manny, Scott and others sort of trashed me. Hunger and poverty will never be erradicated from this World until the group of develped nations commit to this cause.

The Third World needs every kind of help they can get and direct donations of money, medicine or food does not seem to be doing the trick. It is not enough. The money being donating is nort enough and simply donating money is not enough.

Economic and trade policies need to be changed. Geo-politics needs to be changed. We can no longer look at the World as a group of countries, some rich, some poor. We have to look at it as one planet where a big percentage of its population lives below the poverty level and millions die every year of hunger and desease.

The Developed World will have to work together with the Third World to try to solve this problem. Otherwise, things wil get even nastier than what they are today.

[scott]

No one trashed you.

You suggested that Nations and People be FORCED to give to such causes, to which we cried Communism.

Seperate your ego from your posts.

[smeagol]

No one trashed you.
I said sort of.

And I believe I said I hoped people and Governments did it out of the goodness of their hearts, becuase they thought it was the right thing to do. I believe I never used the word "forced".

[smeagol]

You suggested that Nations and People be FORCED to give to such causes, to which we cried Communism.
Scottie boy, I spent 4 pages of that thread explaining to you (and other) my theory, which does not include coercion. In fact I never used the word "forced". Can't your thick skull comprehend that? Do you need another four pages of me explaining to you that charity comes from whithin?


Seperate your ego from your posts.
What the fuck does this mean?

[MannyIsGod]

I concur with Scott. No one was attacking you, there was a debate on what you were saying and whether or not it constitude socialist principles.

I think what Live 8 is trying to do is awesome, and I fully support it. My name is on the list.

[scott]

Scottie boy, I spent 4 pages of that thread explaining to you (and other) my theory, which does not include coercion. In fact I never used the word "forced". Can't your thick skull comprehend that? Do you need another four pages of me explaining to you that charity comes from whithin?

I both Manny I spend the same 4 pages telling you that using tax payer dollars for a cause that they don't necessarily support is tantamount to coercion. Can't your think skull comprehend that??????????



What the fuck does this mean?

Exactly what it says. I realize english may not be your first language.

[GopherSA]

The problems of hunger in Africa will never go away while despots like Robert Mugabe are in power. Africa is a continent rich in resources, but poor in leadership. The despots use food as a weapon of terror -- keeping food from opponents and using starvation to quiet discord.

Sending money to most nations in Africa is simply throwing it away.

[smeagol]

I both Manny I spend the same 4 pages telling you that using tax payer dollars for a cause that they don't necessarily support is tantamount to coercion. Can't your think skull comprehend that??????????
Oh brother . . .

My whole predicament revolves around the fact that the Devloped Country's taxpayers do want to help, so again sparky, NO FUCKING COERCION, get it?

It revolves around the fact they want to help because they realize that during the time it took me to respond to you, another 50 people died somewhere because they do not have access to food and proper medicine.

It revolves around the fact that until the G8 commits to eradicating poverty in the Third World, poverty in those countries will still be around.


Exactly what it says. I realize english may not be your first language.
Still don't understand what my ego has to do with my post. I think my ego is in check. Not sure how from a three paragraph post of mine you can derive a different conclusion.

[smeagol]

I concur with Scott. No one was attacking you, there was a debate on what you were saying and whether or not it constitude socialist principles.
I said "sort of" trashing me because I was being told I was defending socialism/communism when I was not. In any case, Manny, at the end of the debate I believe you partially agreed with me.

http://209.120.238.120/~spursco/forums/showthread.php?t=7996&page=4


I think what Live 8 is trying to do is awesome, and I fully support it. My name is on the list.
I also agree its a great cause. Artists raising awarness about the problem of hunger and putting pressure on the rich countries to help the poor. Which is pretty much what I was saying in that thread.

[smeagol]

The problems of hunger in Africa will never go away while despots like Robert Mugabe are in power. Africa is a continent rich in resources, but poor in leadership. The despots use food as a weapon of terror -- keeping food from opponents and using starvation to quiet discord.

Sending money to most nations in Africa is simply throwing it away.
That's true too. It will be very difficult for Africa to develop if it does not want to help itself first by getting rid of tyrants and dictators.

Nevertheless, the developed world has to help in every possible way it can. And I'm not talking about throughing money away. I'm talking about policy changes.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh brother . . .

My whole predicament revolves around the fact that the Devloped Country's taxpayers do want to help, so again sparky, NO FUCKING COERCION, get it?

It revolves around the fact they want to help because they realize that during the time it took me to respond to you, another 50 people died somewhere because they do not have access to food and proper medicine.

It revolves around the fact that until the G8 commits to eradicating poverty in the Third World, poverty in those countries will still be around.


Still don't understand what my ego has to do with my post. I think my ego is in check. Not sure how from a three paragraph post of mine you can derive a different conclusion.

But there are inevitably people in the country who do not agree with it, or how much to give, or where to give it, etc etc. Anyway you slice it up, it's a form of socialism.

Thats the only point I was making back then - from what I recall - and I think you're still failing to grasp the notion.

[JoeChalupa]

Help is given when there is a return for your investment.
At least that's the way it appears to me.

[scott]

smeagol, you continue to miss the point. Manny and I "sort of" trashed you the way you "sort of" have the slightest clue at what I'm talking about.

Best wishes.

[smeagol]

But there are inevitably people in the country who do not agree with it, or how much to give, or where to give it, etc etc. Anyway you slice it up, it's a form of socialism.

Thats the only point I was making back then - from what I recall - and I think you're still failing to grasp the notion.
Well, Manny, then you also advocate socialism by supporting Live 8 which is nothing but an effort to put pressure on the rich countries to give more to the poor (which, according to you and Scott, is socialism).

[smeagol]

smeagol, you continue to miss the point. Manny and I "sort of" trashed you the way you "sort of" have the slightest clue at what I'm talking about.

Best wishes.
Scott, you believe I miss your point and I'm convinced you're missing mine.

Have a nice day, bro.

[smeagol]

Oh and Manny, :flipoff

I have no reading comprehension problem.

I was being sarcastic (on the other thread that Kori locked) about how you constantly take over threads telling everybody how they should feel and act, and if people argue with you, you give them shit from up there on your high horse. Just like you did on the Migra thread, just like you did on the "flow" thread.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh and Manny, :flipoff

I have no reading comprehension problem.

I was being sarcastic (on the other thread that Kori locked) about how you constantly take over threads telling everybody how they should feel and act, and if people argue with you, you give them shit from up there on your high horse. Just like you did on the Migra thread, just like you did on the "flow" thread.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiblabber.gif

Anyhow, I advocate socialism in certain ways, and I've never said that I don't. The previous debate went the way it went because you kept trying to say what you wanted wasn't socialism. Sorry, but it is.

And actually, you do apparently have a reading comprehension problem. In La Migra thread, I was posting against people telling others what to think. Anyone can be offended, but it's there for everyone to read.

The Flow thread was a joke, and the 3 people who were with me watching me post all found it funny. I apologized to anyone who took offense, however. But you're right, I never come off my high horse. I'm never one of the few people here willing to admit when they are wrong. Never.

But alas, I'll gallop away on my high horse now. Sure is nice up here. Peace.

[smeagol]

What I was advocating was total Utopia, not socialism, but lets end it here 'cause this debate is going nowhere.

In any case, peace to you to Manuel.

[E20]

If all the celebrities that support Live 8 pitch in some of there money there would be no need for other people to donate.

**Also just to be sure the commerical with all the movie stars asking you to donate is that a Live 8 commerical?

[smeagol]

If all the celebrities that support Live 8 pitch in some of there money there would be no need for other people to donate.

**Also just to be sure the commerical with all the movie stars asking you to donate is that a Live 8 commerical?
I don't believe Live 8 was about donating money. That was Live Aid 20 years ago.

[E20]

I saw a commerical that starts with Brad Pitt saying we need your help. Then it switches to other actors saying the same stuff, is this a thing supporting Live 8? What made me mad is why don't they donate since one of them is richer than a whole state in America.

[smeagol]

I saw a commerical that starts with Brad Pitt saying we need your help. Then it switches to other actors saying the same stuff, is this a thing supporting Live 8? What made me mad is why don't they donate since one of them is richer than a whole state in America.
Lets assume Live 8 was about donating (I still don't think it is), how do you know they have not donated?

To the best of my knowledge, some celebrities are big donners of time and money for the charities they support.

[E20]

for the charities they support.
Half of them support charities towards some time of sickness or disease that hasn't been cured yet or opening up some building for something has nothing to do with helping the poor. I've seen infomericals showing poor people and exclaiming that for 10 cents a day young Robert can have food, education and a place to live with his family. Why don't one of them rich folk adopt 100 kids for 1 dollar a day. Then multiply that by 100 celebs and you have 1 million kids and there families being fed. Also, from all the charitable donations I have heard regarding famous(rich) people I haven't read or heard about most being towards the hungry.

[ALVAREZ6]

Economic and trade policies need to be changed. Geo-politics needs to be changed. We can no longer look at the World as a group of countries, some rich, some poor. We have to look at it as one planet where a big percentage of its population lives below the poverty level and millions die every year of hunger and desease.

I agree.

I just don't think we are ever going to look at the world as one united planet, even though that's the way it should be. It's just not fair that so many people were born without an opportunity, and only survive for a few years. We need to solve this problem, it's just ridiculous that so many people are still dieing of hunger and disease, it's sad.

A lot of people around the world don't realize what they have until they live without the things and priviledges they used to have.

I wonder if politics ever adjust to this, or how long it will take...

[Guru of Nothing]

Eliminating poverty with money is like eliminating obesity with guilt.

[smeagol]

The playing field needs to be leveled, for starters.

And there needs to be a willingness to eliminate the problem from all parties.

[Guru of Nothing]

The playing field needs to be leveled, for starters.

And there needs to be a willingness to eliminate the problem from all parties.

Translation - Mean people suck.

[scott]

What I was advocating was total Utopia, not socialism

Alright, I just can't resist.

I'm intrigued by your choice of words, since Utopia - in terms of Thomas More's work - was a communist city-state. Translated, Utopia literally means both "good place" and "no place." By it's very definition, Utopia cannot exist. More recognized the futility of such a world, thus naming it Utopia and naming the main character, who practically identifies himself with Utopia, Raphael Hythloday. Hythloday, translated, means "peddler of nonsense."

Of course, when Hythloday describes his ideal commonwealth, Utopia, he says the following about the distribution of goods and wealth:

"And when it is distributed equitably to everyone, it follows that no one can be reduced to poverty or forced to beg."

Perhaps your choice of words was innocuous, but I found them interesting none the less.

[smeagol]

I meant Utopia in the common sense of the word. As in an ideal place or society which cannot be achieved. In other words, a dream.

Again, nothing to do with communism (which cannot be further from my idea of "ideal place").