So what's wrong with the Spurs?

[Marcus Bryant]

Hopefully we can have a serious discussion about the areas in which the Spurs are lacking and in need of some improvement. References to the recently concluded season are preferred.

[Marcus Bryant]

For example, the Spurs, despite leading the NBA in average points allowed per game and assists allowed per game while also being 3rd in the NBA in field goal % allowed were 25th in the NBA in 3 point % allowed.

So perhaps more work on closing out on shooters?

[MI21]

Veteran Backup PG - I think the Spurs would be better off with a more experienced, battle tested backup. I do like Beno, and he is going to be in the league for a while, but it got to the point where you couldn't put him on the court as the playoffs wore on. Maybe he improves to where he can be as effective in the playoffs as in the regular season, but with the prime years of Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili being now, I'd prefer the Spurs went with the proven rather than the maybe at the all important backup PG position. I'm not sure if Pop wants to put Brent Barry into this role as he did late in the playoffs, but I for one would not mind to see Brent put into this role for good. If not, there are a few backup PG's out there, namely Nick Van Exel, who would perhaps be willing to settle for less in a bid for a championship. Somebody of that ilk as backup PG would make me feel a little bit more comfortable in the big games. Really, this isn't so much of a problem as it is a tough decision; go with the younger player with potential who has shown something, or go with a more proven, experienced player.

Anyone else think this is something that is wrong with the Spurs?

[Marcus Bryant]

Rebounding. The Spurs were 6th in the NBA in average rebounds allowed per game last season but were 12th in rebounds made.

[MI21]

Attire - Pop should really work on his suit collection. Consult some fashion guru's, because with winning comes more attention, so Pop must look his best :hat

[Jelly]

1. Tim Duncan needs to recapture his game.
I love Tim, but he really faltered throughout the finals. He just wasn't himself.
2. We need to develop Beno and Rasho. They have raw talent, but they don't seem motivated...and this is just an impression, I could be way off. Beno just seems like a depressed person who lacks confidence to me.He seems to be intimidated by others. Lack of confidence will kill anyone's game.
3. Keep pushing Manu. He is going to be the biggest superstar in the NBA and will carry us to more titles.
4. ALL the guys need to bulk up!!! Tony looks like a freakin' scarecrow. Maybe it's a French thing, but he seriously needs to hit the gym. He's got to make up for his lack of height. I'm glad to hear Manu is going to bulk up.
Duncan should build up his arms...he could be deadly with his size. There's no excuse guys....GET TO THOSE WEIGHTS!!

and that's my amateur opinion.

[Marcus Bryant]

Midrange shooting. The Spurs have one of the best collections of perimeter shooters in the NBA and a point guard who thrives at attacking the basket along with perhaps the best low post offensive player in the NBA. But that gray area from 15 to 23 feet is rather noticeable.

[boutons]

Due to Thread Topic difficulties, SpursTalk.com is closed for the summer.

EnjoyThe 2005 NBA Championship Spurs!!

See everybody October 1. :)

[Marcus Bryant]

Screen roll defense. The Spurs' defensive philosophy usually is to go under screens to prevent dribble penetration, yet there are plenty of guys in this league who can nail shots over the top of the screen. Perhaps this is a matter of 'if they hit those shots then there' nothing we can do (see the Spurs' rather abyssmal 3 point % ranking), but is there a better way to defend screen rolls?

[ChumpDumper]

Get Ready for This. Released by 2 Unlimited during Tony Massenburg's rookie season.

[Jelly]

Attire - Pop should really work on his suit collection. Consult some fashion guru's, because with winning comes more attention, so Pop must look his best :hat

The finest Italian suit is going to do nothing for that face. For Pop to look his best, he needs to get some microdermabrasion.

(apologies Marcus, don't mean to detract from this otherwise serious conversation.)

[Marcus Bryant]

Get Ready for This. Released by 2 Unlimited during Tony Massenburg's rookie season.

Hmmm...well, they did get rid of THE PINK.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Free throws, free throws, free throws.

[scott]

I feel that our rebounding really picked up after the acquisition of Nazr, are there facts to support that?

Pick n' roll defense is one you mentioned that should be near the top of the list. Seems like it really got exploited this year in the playoffs. I recall in '99 when we seemed to finally get over the Utah Jazz hump, we really shut down the Stockton to Malone PnR. Maybe it's because they were getting old, or maybe we finally figured it out. I'd like to see us make those kind of adjustments.

The other thing I'd throw out is strange looking rotations. A couple times this year I'd look at the court and see a line up of Beno-Barry-Bowen-Massenburg-Narz or something equally as rediculous. Obviously we never saw that in the playoffs - but those kind of lineups seemed to always result in a negative point margin during that stretch.

[Marcus Bryant]

In-game adjustments. Sometimes Pop was golden at making the right move at half to address how a team was kicking their asses...while at other times he didn't. I'm still at a loss to understand why Pop didn't switch Bruce onto Billups in Game 6 of the Finals. He did it in Game 5 and went back to it in Game 7, which ended up being the series winning move, in my opinion.

[Solid D]

Pivot Problems: Rasho's lack of dunking and Nazr's inability to catch the ball.
Solution: Rasho dunks the ball 500 times/day while Nazr stands under the basket and catches Rasho's dunks before they hit the floor.

[SequSpur]

A real backup point guard.

Tony Parker needs to shoot 3s when open. Develop a stable release and put some fucking arc on the shot.

Other than that nothing. The Spurs just won the championship, no need to rebuild.

[Karl Mundt]

Pivot Problems: Rasho's lack of dunking and Nazr's inability to catch the ball.
Solution: Rasho dunks the ball 500 times/day while Nazr stands under the basket and catches Rasho's dunks before they hit the floor.

:lol
With Pop's sense of humour i wouldn't bet against that happening.

[td4mvp21]

For example, the Spurs, despite leading the NBA in average points allowed per game and assists allowed per game while also being 3rd in the NBA in field goal % allowed were 25th in the NBA in 3 point % allowed.

So perhaps more work on closing out on shooters?

I was surprised at that stat also during the regular season. We stepped it up in the playoffs, however. I think during Game 7, it said that throughout the playoffs, our opponents were 0-23 from three pointers in the final two minutes of the game. So, at least we stepped it up. During the next season, we should pay more attention to that.

[strangeweather]

An athletic backup swingman who can bring energy off the bench. This really hurt us at points in the playoffs. Hopefully Devin Brown can make a full recovery and will be resigned to fill this slot. If not, we need someone.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Free throw shooting.

Pick and roll defense.

In game adjustments.

Better on the ball defensive pressure - Detroit set a record in the Finals for least turnovers in a playoff series, while the Spurs came close to setting a record for the most.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yeah why doesnt our defense force more turnovers, i've always wondered that. Why do we have to be so conservative all the time. its like the ressurected one told pop to run those defensive schemes.

[midgetonadonkey]

I've always wondered why they don't throw more ally-oops. I know it's not a big deal but I don't remember seeing on throughout the playoffs. Several teams seem to run plays specifically for the ally-oop, this might open the offense up a bit.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

we don't have any young athletic legs on the team...i bet mahini could throw down some mad oops

[Slomo]

Pivot Problems: Rasho's lack of dunking and Nazr's inability to catch the ball.
Solution: Rasho dunks the ball 500 times/day while Nazr stands under the basket and catches Rasho's dunks before they hit the floor.
:lol

But if it would work, those two would be scary! Let's do it :lol

[wildbill2u]

Hopefully we can have a serious discussion about the areas in which the Spurs are lacking and in need of some improvement. References to the recently concluded season are preferred.

With three starting positions locked for several years, the only two positions that could be upgraded are SF and center--and those positions are in bad shape.

You could easily argue that the Spurs have the 2nd best combo at Center in the league (excepting Shaq/Mourning) with Rasho and Nasr, no matter which one starts. Either one of our guys would be eagerly sought after by some team if they went on the market. There just aren't that many centers out there who are better--and those (like Yao, B. Wallace, Shaq) aren't on the market, period.

That leaves SF. Bowen is probably good in our system for another year or so but the backup situation is not particularly good. Devin is too short to be the future at this position so we have to find someone in our farm system or by trade.

[TheTruth]

Stan Kelly and that stupid Drop in the Bucket

[rascal]

An athletic backup swingman who can bring energy off the bench. This really hurt us at points in the playoffs. Hopefully Devin Brown can make a full recovery and will be resigned to fill this slot. If not, we need someone.

Agree except they need an athletic starting sf and start to reduce Bowen's minutes some.

Also trade Rasho and Barry for the best they can get.

[T Park]

Stan Kelly and that stupid Drop in the Bucket

thats only cause you havent won it... ;)



Agree except they need an athletic starting sf and start to reduce Bowen's minutes some.

Also trade Rasho and Barry for the best they can get.


Find a solution to both of those, and you win a prize.

[FromWayDowntown]

Screen roll defense. The Spurs' defensive philosophy usually is to go under screens to prevent dribble penetration, yet there are plenty of guys in this league who can nail shots over the top of the screen. Perhaps this is a matter of 'if they hit those shots then there' nothing we can do (see the Spurs' rather abyssmal 3 point % ranking), but is there a better way to defend screen rolls?

I'll weigh in here -- I agree that this is a cause for some concern.

For years, with AJ, the Spurs had the luxury of having a guard who could play "over the top" of the screen. AJ's strength allowed him to fight over the screen and stay with the ball even through the play. That limited pull-up jump shots and slowed dribble penetration. The Spurs also had the luxury of involving David Robinson in the screen-roll defense by having him trap the ball. David did that as well as anyone who has ever played in the NBA, mostly because David's sublime quickness allowed him to stay in position to defend the screener.

Fast forward and the Spurs have a smaller point guard and big men who aren't as agile. As the Sonics showed in Games 3 & 4 of the Second Round, these Spurs are susceptible to breakdowns in screen-roll defense, and there is little doubt that this must be a concern. The Pistons had similar success (though with a side screen-roll, rather than a high screen-roll) in Games 3 & 4 of the Finals.

I thought the most effective thing the Spurs did to combat the screen-roll game was to trap hard on shooters who had the ball and to rotate behind the play to avoid mismatches. For example, in Game 5 against Seattle, the Sonics first or second set play was a screen-roll involving Allen (ball) and James or Evans (screen). When Allen came over the screen, Tim met him with a trap and forced Ray to push the ball back towards half-court. Meanwhile, rather than leaving Bowen to defend the screener alone, the Spurs rotated Mohammed up to offer support. It was effective.

I don't know that you could do that every night, though.

My preference would be for

[1Parker1]

Only thing I'd say: FREE THROWS!!!!!! --Summer Clinic for Duncan, Parker, and Bowen taught by Manu Ginobili.

[nanya]

Nothing!!!!!!!

[timvp]

For example, the Spurs, despite leading the NBA in average points allowed per game and assists allowed per game while also being 3rd in the NBA in field goal % allowed were 25th in the NBA in 3 point % allowed.

So perhaps more work on closing out on shooters?

This is what I thought, but then I looked into the number further. The Spurs far and away gave up the fewest three-point attempts per game. They gave up like 10 3PA's per game, with the second closest being like 15 or something like that.

But yeah, they need to lower that percentage. I think the problem was the perimeter players were relatively short so even if they close out on the shooters, they didn't have the size to alter the shots. Players like Hedo and Jack were good at closing out on the three point shooters.

Which leads me to...

Long Small Foward. It seems like the Spurs have been searching since they let Hedo walk. Having a 6'8+ guy on the perimeter would be great for the Spurs, even if it were just an 11th or 12th man.

[ALVAREZ6]

FT shooting.

[boutons]

"second closest being like 15"

I thought 15 was the league average for 3G atttempts/game.

I'm not sure the Spurs need to worry about the apparently anomalous high opp. 3G %age, as long as they keep the attempts down. 36% of 10 3G/game is only yielding 9 or 12 pts on 3Gs.

Another key stat, badly remembereed, was that Spurs opponents hit something like NO 3Gs in the last 2 minutes of games.

The fucking Spurs never fail to impress me! :lol

[GrandeDavid]

free throws.

The thing about improving on three point defense and rebounding. You gotta wonder if those by-products of the type of defensive schemes they employ. Maybe if they close out on shooters it wears them down more or leaves them vulnerable in other areas...who knows!

But I'll give this some research and thought.

[caspian]

Hopefully we can have a serious discussion about the areas in which the Spurs are lacking and in need of some improvement. References to the recently concluded season are preferred.

* free throws

* mental toughness (confidence; more killer attitude) (especially away from home)

If we take care of that, and if winning is the definition of good, we'd be damn near a perfect team.

[TMSKILZ]

Get Ready for This. Released by 2 Unlimited during Tony Massenburg's rookie season.
LMBO, oh man you are so right about that Chump.

Some guy on NBA.com in his Finals blog was ripping into the Spurs for their outdated music selection & pre-game & 1/2 time performers, very outdated, I mean come on Spurs! Get with the times.

We need to work on better FT shooting, & several players need to really work on aprts of their game.
TP= develop a jumper & taking better care of the ball, way too many TOs on his part.

Nazr= his hands, DEF & low post moves & DUNKING instead of pump faking!

Rasho= pray for him to grow as a player, he really sucks.

[DieMrBond]

These are the things that I can think of... from an amateurs POV :fro

Brent Barry - Keep bringing everything that he has to the table, teach all below him to shoot the FT, get the confidence to be willing to shoot when hes feeling it more often
Bruce Bowen - work on FT, work on his ball control so that he can maybe add another offensive move?
Devin Brown - regain all that leg strength, re-sign with SA and maybe practice his decision making with the ball against aggressive defence?
Tim Duncan - FT, and add something like the Dream Shake maybe?
Manu Ginobili - rest, and maybe cut down the turnovers, 1on1 defence?
Robert Horry - resign with sa, find out where he put his other 5 rings!
Ian Mahinmi - work on everything, if he is as raw as they say
Tony Massenburg - stay in one place for longer than half a season!
Nazr Mohammed - maybe have surgery on his hands to make them spiderman like (ie, can grip anything)
Rasho Nesterovic - dunk it, ft shooting, aggressiveness
Tony Parker - work on his jumper, FT and maybe his strength to handle the bigger PGs that burn him so often (if its even possible)
Glenn Robinson - resign with sa, and show he didnt deserve that bad boy rep!
Beno Udrih - work his ballhandling, work on beating aggressive defence (ie half court trap)

[Spursdaone]

The problem with the spurs is they are sometimes soft.

[polandprzem]

1. Tim Duncan needs to recapture his game.
I love Tim, but he really faltered throughout the finals. He just wasn't himself.
2. We need to develop Beno and Rasho. They have raw talent, but they don't seem motivated...and this is just an impression, I could be way off. Beno just seems like a depressed person who lacks confidence to me.He seems to be intimidated by others. Lack of confidence will kill anyone's game.
3. Keep pushing Manu. He is going to be the biggest superstar in the NBA and will carry us to more titles.
4. ALL the guys need to bulk up!!! Tony looks like a freakin' scarecrow. Maybe it's a French thing, but he seriously needs to hit the gym. He's got to make up for his lack of height. I'm glad to hear Manu is going to bulk up.
Duncan should build up his arms...he could be deadly with his size. There's no excuse guys....GET TO THOSE WEIGHTS!!

and that's my amateur opinion.
They are definately lifting weights.
But in those 2 months - bulk up?

man they need some steroids
:drunk

[grjr]

I was surprised at that stat also during the regular season. We stepped it up in the playoffs, however. I think during Game 7, it said that throughout the playoffs, our opponents were 0-23 from three pointers in the final two minutes of the game. So, at least we stepped it up. During the next season, we should pay more attention to that.

I remember them discussing that stat during the game. Not 30 seconds later, though, Rasheed hit that 3-pointer from the corner. So much for that! :lol

[grjr]

For example, the Spurs, despite leading the NBA in average points allowed per game and assists allowed per game while also being 3rd in the NBA in field goal % allowed were 25th in the NBA in 3 point % allowed.

So perhaps more work on closing out on shooters?

I think the 3-point % thing was kind of an anomoly. I remember thinking during the season that teams seemed to be hitting an unusual amount of tough, well guarded 3-pointers against us. Plus, when someone DID happen to get open they never seemed to miss.

I won't be surprised if that stat isn't much better next year without the Spurs really doing anything different at all.

[manmen]

It's a tough choice to go for Nick Van Excel. Why not keep them all. The spurs usually have 3 pg during the year. Why not let Mike Wilkes go and keep them all because you never know Nick might get hurt being that he is 34. So, why not keep them all.

[manmen]

Does anyone know anything about Linton Johnson some say he's good but, how long does it take to recover (leg) from a injury like he had?

[manmen]

With three starting positions locked for several years, the only two positions that could be upgraded are SF and center--and those positions are in bad shape.

You could easily argue that the Spurs have the 2nd best combo at Center in the league (excepting Shaq/Mourning) with Rasho and Nasr, no matter which one starts. Either one of our guys would be eagerly sought after by some team if they went on the market. There just aren't that many centers out there who are better--and those (like Yao, B. Wallace, Shaq) aren't on the market, period.

That leaves SF. Bowen is probably good in our system for another year or so but the backup situation is not particularly good. Devin is too short to be the future at this position so we have to find someone in our farm system or by trade.

Does anyone know anything about Linton Johnson some say he's good but, how long does it take to recover (leg) from a injury like he had?

[strangeweather]

Agree except they need an athletic starting sf and start to reduce Bowen's minutes some.

As well as he played this year, I think it's a little early to move Bruce out of the starting lineup. He can still start even if we cut his minutes some in the middle of games to keep him fresh.

[Rick Von Braun]

I'll play, but don't have much time to read the entire thread, so if this has been covered, I apologize for the repetition...


For example, the Spurs, despite leading the NBA in average points allowed per game and assists allowed per game while also being 3rd in the NBA in field goal % allowed were 25th in the NBA in 3 point % allowed.

So perhaps more work on closing out on shooters? The Spurs do a fine job. They allowed few 3s per game, in comparison to other teams. It seems that other teams simply take better percentage treys (wide open, although fewers!), thus the increase in accuracy.



Veteran Backup PG - I think the Spurs would be better off with a more experienced, battle tested backup.

<snip>

Anyone else think this is something that is wrong with the Spurs? I think there are more glaring needs at SF (a long 3) and center for that matter. I trust Beno will further improve as well.


Rebounding. The Spurs were 6th in the NBA in average rebounds allowed per game last season but were 12th in rebounds made. This is almost a direct consequence of game pace. The Spurs average 89 possesions per game, fewer than most teams, so when the Spurs play there are fewers rebounds (defensive and offensive) opportunities for both teams. The fact that they are 12th in the entire league at a very slow pace is actually a compliment. I'll try to get you the number of rebounds per possesion.. the Spurs should be one of the leaders.


Midrange shooting. The Spurs have one of the best collections of perimeter shooters in the NBA and a point guard who thrives at attacking the basket along with perhaps the best low post offensive player in the NBA. But that gray area from 15 to 23 feet is rather noticeable. While this aspect is important, it is less important that people may think. Mid-range shooting is statistically less accurate than close range shooting (within 8ft). The rule of thumb is that you try to get as close to the basket as you can. This is not always possible, so teams need to fire away from more than 15 ft. Consider this though... a 33% 3-pt bomber (mediocre) is still equivalent to a 50% midrange player (most people would consider this player pretty good). The Spurs should still prioritize treys. Midrange shooting is a nice niche for penetrators (i.e. Manu and TP). They could suddently stop on their tracks and take a pull up jumper. This could help keep defenses honest and reduce the difficulty of slashing and penetration.


In-game adjustments. Sometimes Pop was golden at making the right move at half to address how a team was kicking their asses...while at other times he didn't. I'm still at a loss to understand why Pop didn't switch Bruce onto Billups in Game 6 of the Finals. He did it in Game 5 and went back to it in Game 7, which ended up being the series winning move, in my opinion. Very nice. I agree 100%.

[boutons]

"the series winning move"

imo, it was playing Game7 @SBC (aka HCA).

What do you think the Spurs chances were of winning that Game7 @DET? Historically, very low, and after Game3 and 4 blowouts, even lower.

[Marcus Bryant]

They won at Detroit with that move.

[Marcus Bryant]

Good catches by timvp and RVB on the Spurs giving up significantly fewer 3 point attempts per game than the average in the NBA. Still, from the perspective that you can always improve, that % is somewhat too high. Perhaps with a couple more seasons of the current personnel playing together will they be able to reduce that average %.

[2centsworth]

1. Tony Parker needs to improve his FT shooting. Will make people pay for fouling him and will boost his ppg by 4-5 per game. Plus, a byproduct will be improved jumpshooting.

2. Nazr needs to improve his "D" and finishing.

3. Tim needs to bulk up a little bit.

4. "Slomo" Beno needs to hit the track and work on his speed.

5. Brent needs to improve his decision making.

6. Horry needs to improve his defensive rebouding if possible.

7. Manu needs to improve his Asst to Turnover ratio

[Solid D]

There is one stat that has mystified me over the years (past 5 at least) is the Opponent FT % The Spurs are almost always one of the worst teams in this category.
In 2004-05 they were a little better and were ranked 6th worst at 76.8% while the Lakers were the worst at 78%.

It's almost as though the Spurs defense is so tough, that the FT is a more appreciated method of scoring by their opposition.

[Marcus Bryant]

There is one stat that has mystified me over the years (past 5 at least) is the Opponent FT % The Spurs are almost always one of the worst teams in this category.
In 2004-05 they were a little better and were ranked 6th worst at 76.8% while the Lakers were the worst at 78%.

It's almost as though the Spurs defense is so tough, that the FT is a more appreciated method of scoring by their opposition.

Yeah, I've noticed that. Perhaps Pop needs to improve their smack talk when an opposing player is at the line?

[T Park]

What do you think the Spurs chances were of winning that Game7 @DET

just like they wouldn't win the champioship without home court throughout.

Right Rockets division leader?