Quick Grades: Spurs @ Bulls - Feb. 11

[timvp]

Kawhi Leonard :tu
Incredible performance. Legitimately GREAT on D. Exhibited exciting depth on O. His ability to score off the bounce gives him a superstar ceiling as a player.

Danny Green :tu
Considering he had to deal with a ton of screens, he did very well on D. He competed hard, rebounded and made plays. His O was very solid across the board.

Tiago Splitter :tu
Very efficient on offense. His attempts were more difficult than usual but he converted. Boarding was iffy but he provided a backbone on D.

Boris Diaw :tu
Was basically running point power forward; he was the facilitator of the halfcourt offense. In money time, retrieved a lot of balls on D. Great leadership throughout.

Nando De Colo :tu
Admirable poise from tip to horn. He looked like a true PG. Without his playmaking, S.A. had no chance. Quite good on defense; anticipated well and has quick hands.

Gary Neal :tu
Faded late but he was key early. Hit some shots to get the offense going and helped the team survive rough patches. His shot is looking better these last two games.

Matt Bonner :tu
His D was decent at times but his lack of rebounding really hurt the team. On offense, he was useful. His spread the court and helped with the ball-movement.

DeJuan Blair :tu
Was a ball of energy during his minutes. A lot of good; a lot of bad. Pop went away from him in second half. Smart decision, in my view. Spurs needed stability.

Patrick Mills :tu
Not bad during his minutes. Made a couple plays passing-wise and with movement. But the Spurs needed playmaking so this wasn’t his night.

Aron Baynes :tu
Fouled a jumpshooter late. Pop wasn’t thrilled.

Pop :tu
Sensationally surprising win. If anyone wants to doubt whether Pop has earned his eventual spot in the Hall of Fame, games like tonight prove he’s more than worthy.






*Programming Note: I don't give grades in games Pop decides to rest the Big 3. In hindsight, that was an questionable decision.

[200 miles]

:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

[sananspursfan21]

what a fun game to watch! i kinda had a weird feeling that these guys would come out and do it tonight. all my bull fan friends were cocky as get-out, but i kept it tim duncan. cool, quiet confidence :)

[Mugen]

Pop's grade is too high tbh.

[HI-FI]

timvp, been meaning to ask you regarding Kawhi's knee, if everything was good. on his post game interview with Sean, he bluntly said it still hurts. any chance it can improve throughout the season? curious if you've heard anything.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Only one thumb for Baynes?! This is ridiculous!

[Mark in Austin]

I wonder if any Chicago fans will sue...

[BlackSilver]

I really liked where Gary Neal took his shots from. Just a few select spots instead of a pox-ridden shot chart. Those floaters will fall.

I also gained a new appreciation for Rip Hamilton with his vet moves of trying to get under Danny Green's skin. Gave me a sense of how opposing fans must have experienced Bowen and his endless bag of chalkboard scratch, irritating tricks.

[Brunodf]

Nando looked very good tonight, DeColo/Splitter PnR>>>>>>>>>>>>> DeColo/Bonner PnR.
Neal was great in the 1st half but terrible in the 2nd.
Kawhi is amazing.

[TheSkeptic]

Thanks Timvp.

Leonard definitely has all the tools to be something special. I personally had him pegged as a better ball handling Marion and so far so good. 2 way wings are just so hard to find these days. If he can grow into the player we want him to be, the Spurs are in good shape. Just a great game where he completely outplayed an all star in Luol Deng (who probably shouldn't be in the all star game but you get the idea) on both ends of the floor. He got into a good rhythm to start. Although he did have a couple of wild drives at points, I thought that he played with poise and he picked his spots wisely. His aggressiveness these past few games has been very encouraging to say the least. I hope he keeps it up.

Spurs need to do a better job of keeping Splitter involved offensively. They really didn't try until the 4th quarter when Pop told the guys to look for him because they needed to put the Bulls away. He scored 10 points I think in that last quarter and he was 3/5 before that point. Kawhi had a monster game and Gary was fairly efficient so thankfully it didn't matter as much this time around. His rebounding in the second half was not good enough but in that 4th quarter you could immediately see a difference in our interior defense when Pop subbed Splitter in for Blair/Bonner. Baynes still isn't ready for prime time imo, but it couldn't have hurt to let him play over those two.

I really hate the Blair/Bonner line-up and I can't stand it when Diaw plays C with either of those two. :bang

It pains me to say this but I think De Colo has to start getting serious consideration for the back-up pg spot. As you have pointed out, his playmaking was a difference-maker (and was against Miami as well). I'd like to have a plan B in case Manu struggles/gets injured again. Theoretically, with a developed De Colo the second unit doesn't completely collapse and it gives the Spurs another playmaker. I like Mills but there's just no way he could've done what De Colo did tonight. Only problem is that I think De Colo's one of those guys who needs to be 20+ a game in order to play well. Lots of season to be played still but right now I don't think 5 minute stints are the way to go.

Neal looked great at his proper position. His decisions are so much better when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. He should never run the point again tbh.

Great win by our team. Pop managed the rotation beautifully. Much better than the first half against Brooklyn.

[blkroadrunners]

Only one thumb for Baynes?! This is ridiculous!

:lol I was just about to comment on that.

[spurraider21]

It's really going to be hard to temper our expectations for Kawhi now

[spurs10]

Great writeup, thanks! Had to follow on my phone and was still exciting!
:flag:

[polandprzem]

emotional grades



:)

[ElNono]

No way Bonner has the same grade as Leonard... I know your kids love the red rocket, but the bias is really showing, tbh...

[Libri]

:tu

[AussieFanKurt]

We are lucky the rebounding didn't have an impact. Bonner either was boxed out every time or still gave up the rebound when boxing out, he has to be in the bottom 5 for rebounding ability among 4/5s in the league

Everyone was great though

[DapDaGenius]

Awwh man, I was looking forward to the actual letters. Oh well, great write up man. Kawhi played I like I know he can. Does anyone noticed if Green change his shot? If he did, that would explain his better shooting.

I wonder when Baynes will get his time to shine in this time that Duncan is out. I want to see how he does if he gets another game of around 20 minutes.

[Darkwaters]

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Spurs, because they played a great game without the big three. Huge props.

But this definitely shows the weakness of the Eastern Conference. Chicago has the fourth best record in the East (and is only a 1/2 game behind Indiana for 3rd - simply because Indy has played one extra game). And thats all with Derrick Rose still out. San Antonio was without their three top players, playing in Chicago, and routed them. The level of competition out East just isn't that high in general.

[timvp]

In rewatching the game, the rebounding issue isn't really that bothersome. The Bulls were sending four players to the offensive glass. Sometimes all five (:wow). It was a decent plan since the Spurs were vulnerable, especially after Splitter turned his ankle. However, that plan eventually backfired for the Bulls.

1. By send almost everyone to the offensive glass, whenever the Spurs got a rebound, they had numbers going the other way. The result was a ton of mismatches created in early offense and that led to easier than normal shots that a team typically gets against the Bulls.

2. With all those mismatches going the other way, the Spurs rarely had to run deep into their offensive sets. That allowed the Spurs to avoid turnovers.

3. The Spurs were sending almost no one to the offensive boards. While that made it almost impossible for the Spurs to get offensive rebounds, it forced Chicago to play at a sloooooooow pace. The Spurs, even this depleted version of the team, has enough cohesion to play solid halfcourt defense.

4. Since the Bulls had to walk it up and allow the Spurs to get set, it's no wonder they finished with much more turnovers.




So, yeah, we can fret about the rebounding but in reality it was a non-issue. Thibs tried to attack a vulnerability but that it turn made life easier for the Spurs in other areas.

[polandprzem]

I got to download this few last games ...

[freetiago]

lol at spurs getting almost outrebounded 2:1 being a nonissue
its been an issue this entire season
Diaw/Bonner are horrible rebounders and Blair either looks done or pads his rebounds getting his own misses when he plays
Splitter is about average to below average most nights
Duncan has been one of the top 3 defensive rebounders in the nba the past 2 seasons which cover the Spurs deficiencies
but you cant rely on a 36 to be 37 in the playoffs Duncan to shoulder the entire load, he will get tired eventually

hinrinch rose out and teague being a project they have no true ball handlers
nate robinson is basically a patty mills with better penetrating and handling
if they had a competent PG they wouldnt have had as much turnovers
and we scored a lot on midrange mostly because of how bad Nate and Boozer are at defending the pick and roll
they were just standing in the paint surrending mid range shots which SA converted

Chicagos starting lineup with Boozer nate and rip scores 99 per 100 and gives up 116 per 100 possessions

[timvp]

lol at spurs getting almost outrebounded 2:1 being a nonissue
its been an issue this entire season

lol rebounding being an issue this entire season when the Spurs are the best defensive rebounding team in the entire NBA over the last two months








Besides, in the big picture, how the Spurs rebound without the Big 3 is meaningless. If the Spurs are going to battle for a championship, they'll do it with the Big 3. Duncan will obviously help tremendously. Ginobili has been great about pulling down contested rebounds. Jackson is very good at helping out in the paint when it's needed. Heck, TP is good at chasing down long boards. But the big difference is that Duncan's return will take away minutes for Bonner/Blair ... and that will naturally solve any ailments that have popped up over the last few games.

I know that feigning fret over rebounds is just a covert way of whining about Bonner playing over Baynes but defensive rebounding is one of the last areas we should be worried about with this team. When it comes down to it, I'm confident that defensive rebounding won't be a problem.

[Boomersgold]

Thanks Timvp.

Leonard definitely has all the tools to be something special. I personally had him pegged as a better ball handling Marion and so far so good. 2 way wings are just so hard to find these days. If he can grow into the player we want him to be, the Spurs are in good shape. Just a great game where he completely outplayed an all star in Luol Deng (who probably shouldn't be in the all star game but you get the idea) on both ends of the floor. He got into a good rhythm to start. Although he did have a couple of wild drives at points, I thought that he played with poise and he picked his spots wisely. His aggressiveness these past few games has been very encouraging to say the least. I hope he keeps it up.

Spurs need to do a better job of keeping Splitter involved offensively. They really didn't try until the 4th quarter when Pop told the guys to look for him because they needed to put the Bulls away. He scored 10 points I think in that last quarter and he was 3/5 before that point. Kawhi had a monster game and Gary was fairly efficient so thankfully it didn't matter as much this time around. His rebounding in the second half was not good enough but in that 4th quarter you could immediately see a difference in our interior defense when Pop subbed Splitter in for Blair/Bonner. Baynes still isn't ready for prime time imo, but it couldn't have hurt to let him play over those two.

I really hate the Blair/Bonner line-up and I can't stand it when Diaw plays C with either of those two. :bang

It pains me to say this but I think De Colo has to start getting serious consideration for the back-up pg spot. As you have pointed out, his playmaking was a difference-maker (and was against Miami as well). I'd like to have a plan B in case Manu struggles/gets injured again. Theoretically, with a developed De Colo the second unit doesn't completely collapse and it gives the Spurs another playmaker. I like Mills but there's just no way he could've done what De Colo did tonight. Only problem is that I think De Colo's one of those guys who needs to be 20+ a game in order to play well. Lots of season to be played still but right now I don't think 5 minute stints are the way to go.

Neal looked great at his proper position. His decisions are so much better when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. He should never run the point again tbh.

Great win by our team. Pop managed the rotation beautifully. Much better than the first half against Brooklyn.

What? You mean De Colo's 9 points on 27 % shooting, 7 assists and 5 fouls in 33 minutes of playing time? I'm almost certain that Mills could do what "De Colo did tonight". Don't forget that Mills averaged 10.3 points and 2.4 assists in 16 minutes of playing time last season. Would've liked to see Mills get more playing time to see what he's truly capable of. Like De Colo, Patty would benefit from playing 20+ minutes a game. As a shooter, it's hard to find an offensive groove when you're only on the court for less than 5 minutes. (See Gary Neal for evidence of this)

I was impressed with De Colo's ability to play calm and controlled throughout the game, but I was hardly impressed with De Colo's performance and production as a starting player (compared to an average NBA starter). Tony Parker usually gets around 9 points and 5 assists by half time.

I'm surprised Pop decided to go with Bonner for most of the game when it was clearly obvious that we were being dominated on the boards. We ended up getting out-rebounded 49 to 26....
Bonner, who played almost 20 minutes, couldn't even muster a single rebound and was absolutely useless in the paint. Anyone besides Bonner (Blair, Splitter or even Baynes) would've contributed more than what Bonner did tonight.

As for Kawhi and Splitter, :tu

In the end, we got the win, and that's all that matters. Pop seemed pretty happy after the game; he probably thought his rotations were magic.

[timtonymanu]

What? You mean De Colo's 9 points on 27 % shooting, 7 assists and 5 fouls in 33 minutes of playing time? I'm almost certain that Mills could do what "De Colo did tonight". Don't forget that Mills averaged 10.3 points and 2.4 assists in 16 minutes of playing time last season. Would've liked to see Mills get more playing time to see what he's truly capable of. Like De Colo, Patty would benefit from playing 20+ minutes a game. As a shooter, it's hard to find an offensive groove when you're only on the court for less than 5 minutes. (See Gary Neal for evidence of this)

I was impressed with De Colo's ability to play calm and controlled throughout the game, but I was hardly impressed with De Colo's performance and production as a starting player (compared to an average NBA starter). Tony Parker usually gets around 9 points and 5 assists by half time.

I'm surprised Pop decided to go with Bonner for most of the game when it was clearly obvious that we were being dominated on the boards. We ended up getting out-rebounded 49 to 26....
Bonner, who played almost 20 minutes, couldn't even muster a single rebound and was absolutely useless in the paint. Anyone besides Bonner (Blair, Splitter or even Baynes) would've contributed more than what Bonner did tonight.

As for Kawhi and Splitter, :tu

In the end, we got the win, and that's all that matters. Pop seemed pretty happy after the game; he probably thought his rotations were magic.

Is it really that hard for you to ever give Nando credit?

LOL comparing Nando to TP as a starter. By that same token, Patty didn't do much better when he started against the Heat.

[Boomersgold]

Is it really that hard for you to ever give Nando credit?

I gave him credit. Skeptic said that "there was no way that Patty could've done what De Colo did tonight", and I don't believe it to be that hard to get 9 points and 7 assists in 33 minutes of playing time. Remember Mills against the Suns?

[Boomersgold]

LOL comparing Nando to TP as a starter. By that same token, Patty didn't do much better when he started against the Heat.

No one did any better against the Heat. Don't know how we only lost by 5 in that one.

[Spursfanfromafar]

In rewatching the game, the rebounding issue isn't really that bothersome. The Bulls were sending four players to the offensive glass. Sometimes all five (:wow). It was a decent plan since the Spurs were vulnerable, especially after Splitter turned his ankle. However, that plan eventually backfired for the Bulls.

1. By send almost everyone to the offensive glass, whenever the Spurs got a rebound, they had numbers going the other way. The result was a ton of mismatches created in early offense and that led to easier than normal shots that a team typically gets against the Bulls.

2. With all those mismatches going the other way, the Spurs rarely had to run deep into their offensive sets. That allowed the Spurs to avoid turnovers.

3. The Spurs were sending almost no one to the offensive boards. While that made it almost impossible for the Spurs to get offensive rebounds, it forced Chicago to play at a sloooooooow pace. The Spurs, even this depleted version of the team, has enough cohesion to play solid halfcourt defense.

4. Since the Bulls had to walk it up and allow the Spurs to get set, it's no wonder they finished with much more turnovers.




So, yeah, we can fret about the rebounding but in reality it was a non-issue. Thibs tried to attack a vulnerability but that it turn made life easier for the Spurs in other areas.

Great points. I didn't see the game and only followed it online through the play by plays. It didn't make sense that the Spurs were outrebounded by so much even as the Bulls were "stolen"/ Turnovered so many times either. In that way, it was a weird box score.

Now that you say it, it makes a lot of sense. Thibs was out-coached by Pop. Pop was being Pop- conservative on Offensive rebounding, conservative on rest, and staying within his system. Thibs on the other hand continues to err on the side of adventure by playing his vets even when injured, relied up on offensive rebounding and really played like a puppet into Pop's hands.

[timtonymanu]

No one did any better against the Heat. Don't know how we only lost by 5 in that one.

Look up the boxscore from that game. Again, you are discrediting Nando and a few others now.

[spurraider21]

Kawhi looked really comfortable pulling up from the right baseline early on. Neal came up big imo... made a bunch of tough unassisted shots

[freetiago]

if the spurs win a championship the big 3 will need all the help they can get and the roleplayers will have to play like they did tonight minus the pathetic effort on the glass
Duncan isnt playing 48 minutes a night and Popovich seems to play Splitter with the bench less now and opts for a Blair/Diaw/Bonner bench frontline more
rebounding from the second unit will be a problem for 10-15 minutes a night even if Splitter is playing with them
he just isnt that good to anchor a defense and grab rebounds like a Duncan can

having only one competent defensive rebounder on the frontline isnt something to count on
and vs the two teams that matter, OKC and Miami the spurs tall lineup could become useless
the advantage they have going big is to beat the smaller teams by taking it in the paint and beating them on the glass
OKC/Miami can go "small" with Lebron/Durant at the 4 and abuse whoever Splitter is suppose to guard while matching SA on the rebounding side since those two will probably outrebound Splitter in the playoffs

also should add that the spurs are good at beating up on bad teams
only have 2 loses vs -.500 teams and one was a fully healthy pelicans team which is probably a 7th/8th seed
vs the knicks the spurs were outrebounded 35-48 when they went with camby/chanlder
vs the clippers 29-46 and then again 42-52
vs okc 39-48 and then 37-49

the good teams all seem to have the rebounding edge vs the spurs

[Boomersgold]

Look up the boxscore from that game. Again, you are discrediting Nando and a few others now.

tbh, memory was a bit hazy (The game DID occur over 2 and a half months a go). I suppose De Colo played better then than he did last night. Against the Heat, De Colo had 15 points (50% shooting), 6 rebounds and 5 assists in the same amount of playing time.

As I said, not that hard to replicate or do better than De Colo's 9 points on 27% shooting and 7 assists when you get over 30 minutes of playing time. Against the Heat, Neal played 32 minutes 20 points and 7 assists on 35 % shooting.

Patty Mills had 27 points and 5 assists against the Suns in about 33 minutes of playing time.

Again, I'm just diagreeing with Skeptic's comment that it's impossible for Mills to do what De Colo did tonight. I'm not saying that De Colo played bad. :lol

[timvp]

I'm back to firmly on the De Colo bandwagon for backup point guard. I've changed my mind a lot this year but his instincts on both ends, his intangibles and his ability to make plays are all aspects that could help steal a playoff game. If Pop gives him sufficient room to grow, I could see De Colo playing a role similar to 2011 Greivis Vasquez. Back then, he was raw, not completely comfortable at point guard, not especially efficient but he made things happen for Memphis and that activity alone was valuable against the Spurs.

De Colo will have to learn how to play next to Ginobili (it's been awkward thus far) and he has to cut down on his turnovers ... but he has a quality about his game that could be useful come the playoffs when things tend to stagnate.

As for Mills, I like him as the lightning in a bottle change of pace. It seems like his best games this year have been when Pop puts him in cold during the second half and Mills is able to catch the other team by surprise.

Neal? I don't know what to do with him right now. He has played better these last two games but his fit when (hopefully not "if") this team gets healthy is awkward.

[timvp]

Popovich seems to play Splitter with the bench less now and opts for a Blair/Diaw/Bonner bench frontline more?

Are you talking about with Duncan out? Well, yeah, Splitter can't play with the starters and the bench right now :lol


the good teams all seem to have the rebounding edge vs the spursThat's cherry picking bad games, most of which were early in the season. Bottomline is the Spurs were great defensive rebounding team last season. They've been a great defensive rebounding team virtually Pop's entire era as coach. They were great in the playoffs last season even though the Spurs ran into strong rebounding teams. They had a slow start this year (mostly because Splitter was soft to begin the season and the simultaneous injuries to Kawhi and Jack) but have been great again over the last two months.

Again, this team has several potential fatal flaws. Defensive rebounding is way down on the list ... if it even makes the list. When healthy, this team has too many plus rebounders (Duncan, Splitter when he's at power forward, Leonard, Ginobili, Jackson at times, De Colo's pretty damn good at rebounding, Green can rebound when he wants, etc.) for it to be a major concern.

[Boomersgold]

?

Are you talking about with Duncan out? Well, yeah, Splitter can't play with the starters and the bench right now :lol

That's cherry picking bad games, most of which were early in the season. Bottomline is the Spurs were great defensive rebounding team last season. They've been a great defensive rebounding team virtually Pop's entire era as coach. They were great in the playoffs last season even though the Spurs ran into strong rebounding teams. They had a slow start this year (mostly because Splitter was soft to begin the season and the simultaneous injuries to Kawhi and Jack) but have been great again over the last two months.

Again, this team has several potential fatal flaws. Defensive rebounding is way down on the list ... if it even makes the list. When healthy, this team has too many plus rebounders (Duncan, Splitter when he's at power forward, Leonard, Ginobili, Jackson at times, De Colo's pretty damn good at rebounding, Green can rebound when he wants, etc.) for it to be a major concern.

On the subject of rebounders, how much longer do you think Bonner will be in the rotation? He's not a very good rebounder, and doesn't really provide much on the defensive end against other 4s. Do you think Pop wil insert Baynes or re-insert Blair into the backup rotation before the end of the season?

[Darkwaters]

On the subject of rebounders, how much longer do you think Bonner will be in the rotation? He's not a very good rebounder, and doesn't really provide much on the defensive end against other 4s. Do you think Pop wil insert Baynes or re-insert Blair into the backup rotation before the end of the season?

Honestly when everyone was healthy, Bonner wasn't in the rotation.

I think after the All-Star break if everyone is back then we don't be seeing much of Bonner/Blair/Baynes except in garbage time and "rest games".

[will_spurs]

As I said, not that hard to replicate or do better than De Colo's 9 points on 27% shooting and 7 assists when you get over 30 minutes of playing time. Against the Heat, Neal played 32 minutes 20 points and 7 assists on 35 % shooting.

Maybe it ain't hard, but it sure ain't easy either... here is the list of players this season averaging over 9 points and 7 assists:



Rk
Player
Season
Age
Tm
Lg
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
3P
3PA
FT
FTA
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS
FG%
3P%
FT%


1
Russell Westbrook (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html)
2012-13
24
OKC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
51
51
35.6
7.9
18.7
1.3
3.9
5.4
6.7
1.4
3.8
5.2
8.1
2.0
0.3
3.5
2.3
22.5
.425
.325
.797


2
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
2012-13
30
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
50
50
32.9
8.2
15.4
0.4
1.1
3.8
4.7
0.3
2.6
3.0
7.7
0.9
0.1
2.5
1.3
20.7
.535
.400
.824


3
Jrue Holiday (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/holidjr01.html)
2012-13
22
PHI (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
45
45
38.5
7.9
17.2
1.0
3.0
2.5
3.3
1.0
3.2
4.2
8.8
1.5
0.4
4.0
2.3
19.3
.457
.346
.776


4
Deron Williams (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01.html)
2012-13
28
BRK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
50
50
36.5
5.6
13.5
1.8
5.2
3.8
4.4
0.4
2.8
3.3
7.6
0.9
0.5
2.8
2.5
16.7
.413
.347
.855


5
Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html)
2012-13
27
LAC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
41
41
33.0
5.7
12.1
1.2
3.4
3.9
4.3
0.6
2.9
3.5
9.4
2.5
0.0
2.2
2.0
16.5
.474
.348
.888


6
Jameer Nelson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nelsoja01.html)
2012-13
30
ORL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
40
40
35.5
5.5
13.8
2.2
6.3
1.8
2.0
0.5
3.5
3.9
7.5
1.3
0.2
2.7
3.0
14.9
.397
.348
.910


7
John Wall (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html)
2012-13
22
WAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
16
9
28.1
5.6
13.3
0.1
0.8
3.4
4.3
0.5
2.7
3.2
7.1
0.9
0.7
3.2
2.7
14.6
.420
.083
.797


8
Greivis Vasquez (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vasqugr01.html)
2012-13
26
NOH (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
51
51
34.2
5.6
12.9
1.1
3.1
1.6
2.1
0.5
4.1
4.6
9.4
0.7
0.1
3.3
2.4
14.1
.437
.365
.769


9
Rajon Rondo (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html)
2012-13
26
BOS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
38
38
37.4
5.9
12.2
0.3
1.3
1.6
2.4
1.1
4.4
5.6
11.1
1.8
0.2
3.9
2.5
13.7
.484
.240
.645


10
Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)
2012-13
38
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
28
28
33.3
4.5
8.6
1.1
2.6
2.0
2.2
0.5
2.4
2.9
7.4
0.7
0.1
2.6
1.4
12.1
.521
.438
.918


11
Jose Calderon (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caldejo01.html)
2012-13
31
TOT
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
49
34
28.5
4.3
8.9
1.8
4.0
1.0
1.1
0.3
2.0
2.3
7.4
0.7
0.1
1.7
1.3
11.3
.482
.434
.904





Again, I'm just diagreeing with Skeptic's comment that it's impossible for Mills to do what De Colo did tonight. I'm not saying that De Colo played bad. :lol

And I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying: we're not looking at the boxscore, we're looking at the attitude on the court, poise, leadership, "intangibles" and playmaking abilities. In all those categories De Colo is a better player than Mills, with a higher ceiling. That doesn't mean Mills isn't a good or useful player, simply that he doesn't have the skills that are highly valued in a back-up PG. Mills role is likely to be different as he brings energy, passion, determination and streak shooting--all skills that are also important, but for another position (namely back-up SG, especially when Neal goes cold).

[Boomersgold]

Maybe it ain't hard, but it sure ain't easy either... here is the list of players this season averaging over 9 points and 7 assists:



Rk
Player
Season
Age
Tm
Lg
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
3P
3PA
FT
FTA
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS
FG%
3P%
FT%


1
Russell Westbrook (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html)
2012-13
24
OKC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
51
51
35.6
7.9
18.7
1.3
3.9
5.4
6.7
1.4
3.8
5.2
8.1
2.0
0.3
3.5
2.3
22.5
.425
.325
.797


2
Tony Parker (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html)
2012-13
30
SAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
50
50
32.9
8.2
15.4
0.4
1.1
3.8
4.7
0.3
2.6
3.0
7.7
0.9
0.1
2.5
1.3
20.7
.535
.400
.824


3
Jrue Holiday (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/holidjr01.html)
2012-13
22
PHI (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
45
45
38.5
7.9
17.2
1.0
3.0
2.5
3.3
1.0
3.2
4.2
8.8
1.5
0.4
4.0
2.3
19.3
.457
.346
.776


4
Deron Williams (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01.html)
2012-13
28
BRK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
50
50
36.5
5.6
13.5
1.8
5.2
3.8
4.4
0.4
2.8
3.3
7.6
0.9
0.5
2.8
2.5
16.7
.413
.347
.855


5
Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html)
2012-13
27
LAC (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
41
41
33.0
5.7
12.1
1.2
3.4
3.9
4.3
0.6
2.9
3.5
9.4
2.5
0.0
2.2
2.0
16.5
.474
.348
.888


6
Jameer Nelson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nelsoja01.html)
2012-13
30
ORL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
40
40
35.5
5.5
13.8
2.2
6.3
1.8
2.0
0.5
3.5
3.9
7.5
1.3
0.2
2.7
3.0
14.9
.397
.348
.910


7
John Wall (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html)
2012-13
22
WAS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
16
9
28.1
5.6
13.3
0.1
0.8
3.4
4.3
0.5
2.7
3.2
7.1
0.9
0.7
3.2
2.7
14.6
.420
.083
.797


8
Greivis Vasquez (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vasqugr01.html)
2012-13
26
NOH (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
51
51
34.2
5.6
12.9
1.1
3.1
1.6
2.1
0.5
4.1
4.6
9.4
0.7
0.1
3.3
2.4
14.1
.437
.365
.769


9
Rajon Rondo (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html)
2012-13
26
BOS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
38
38
37.4
5.9
12.2
0.3
1.3
1.6
2.4
1.1
4.4
5.6
11.1
1.8
0.2
3.9
2.5
13.7
.484
.240
.645


10
Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)
2012-13
38
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html)
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
28
28
33.3
4.5
8.6
1.1
2.6
2.0
2.2
0.5
2.4
2.9
7.4
0.7
0.1
2.6
1.4
12.1
.521
.438
.918


11
Jose Calderon (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caldejo01.html)
2012-13
31
TOT
NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html)
49
34
28.5
4.3
8.9
1.8
4.0
1.0
1.1
0.3
2.0
2.3
7.4
0.7
0.1
1.7
1.3
11.3
.482
.434
.904




Jeremy Lin: 12.5 points and 6 assists
Jarret Jack: ~13 points and 6 assists
Stephen Curry: 21 points and ~7 assists
Goran Dragic: 14 points and 6 assists
Jeff Teague: 14 points and 7 assists
Kemba Walker: 17 points and 6 assists
George Hill: 15 points and 5 assists
Raymond Felton: 15 points and 6 assists
Brandon Jennings: 19 points and 6 assists
Damian Lillard: 18 points and 7 assists
Kyrie Irving: 24 points and 5 assists

9 points and 7 assists on 27% shooting isn't anything special. Almost all starting point guards in the league produce more than that on a game basis.


And I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying: we're not looking at the boxscore, we're looking at the attitude on the court, poise, leadership, "intangibles" and playmaking abilities. In all those categories De Colo is a better player than Mills, with a higher ceiling. That doesn't mean Mills isn't a good or useful player, simply that he doesn't have the skills that are highly valued in a back-up PG. Mills role is likely to be different as he brings energy, passion, determination and streak shooting--all skills that are also important, but for another position (namely back-up SG, especially when Neal goes cold).

I can agree with this, although I'm not really sure how "leadership" can be compared on the court. When Ginobili comes back, De Colo and Mills would be relegated to their third and fourth string roles (with Cojo as the 5th string guard). I just wish that the Spurs would address this situation. It's really killing these guys' confidence and also holding them back from improving as a basketball player.

[bklynspursfan]

One of my favorite moments was at the 3:47 mark.. Kawhi had the ball, he had Deng and Boozer near him (he chose not to use the Diaw screen) and he stopped and popped and before the basket went in he was already back pedaling cause he knew it was going down. That kind of confidence was great to see from him. I hope we see many more nights where Kawhi can get going like that again, even when everyone is healthy.

[bigfan]

The biggest win of the season, Spurs beat one of the best in the east with their bench, and nary a peep on ESPN, SI or Fox Sports.

[skin]

Splitter is about average to below average most nights

I mentioned this before. Splitter is below average as rebounder. IMO this is his weakest skill at the game. I really like to see him improving in this department before giving him anything close to near max deal.
Also Spurs need to do a better job of keeping Splitter involved offensively. Sometimes it seems he spends 5 minutes without touching the ball in the offensive end.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thanks as always for the game thoughts timvp

Couldn't see the game as my cable went out and didn't come back till an hour after the game ended (PVR'd the repeat on NBA TV and will check it out later today). Going by the boxscore, seems like Nando had a nice game but does his poor shooting not worry you?

It seems like he has the potential to be a decent shooter but maybe his mechanics are a bit off? I guess his solid playmaking can making up for his mediocre shooting as a backup PG.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Neal stopped trying to play team basketball and turned into a chucker in the 4th. I'm glad he got yanked. I know I was calling for it.

[TJastal]

I'm back to firmly on the De Colo bandwagon for backup point guard. I've changed my mind a lot this year but his instincts on both ends, his intangibles and his ability to make plays are all aspects that could help steal a playoff game. If Pop gives him sufficient room to grow, I could see De Colo playing a role similar to 2011 Greivis Vasquez. Back then, he was raw, not completely comfortable at point guard, not especially efficient but he made things happen for Memphis and that activity alone was valuable against the Spurs.

De Colo will have to learn how to play next to Ginobili (it's been awkward thus far) and he has to cut down on his turnovers ... but he has a quality about his game that could be useful come the playoffs when things tend to stagnate.

As for Mills, I like him as the lightning in a bottle change of pace. It seems like his best games this year have been when Pop puts him in cold during the second half and Mills is able to catch the other team by surprise.

Neal? I don't know what to do with him right now. He has played better these last two games but his fit when (hopefully not "if") this team gets healthy is awkward.

I've also been firmly on the DeColo bandwagon, I think he would make a great backup point guard and potential starter someday in the nba. Mills and Neal are basically the same player except one is more comfortable at the "2" and the other at the "1", and neither have exceptional handles nor can they distribute well (unlike DeColo). Although their games overlap each other and both play essentially the same role, I do see a future for Neal in SA as the backup SG once Ginobili retires, Mills not so much.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Neal stopped trying to play team basketball and turned into a chucker in the 4th. I'm glad he got yanked. I know I was calling for it.

He really frustrates me..

[Josepatches_]

I'd like to see the grades with or without big 3 . They are our players too like TP,Manu or TD.

[Josepatches_]

I mentioned this before. Splitter is below average as rebounder. IMO this is his weakest skill at the game. I really like to see him improving in this department before giving him anything close to near max deal.
Also Spurs need to do a better job of keeping Splitter involved offensively. Sometimes it seems he spends 5 minutes without touching the ball in the offensive end.

Yes,he never was a great rebounder.
In the other hand he could average 15+ppg easily if he gets the ball in the paint

[cd021]

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Spurs, because they played a great game without the big three. Huge props.

But this definitely shows the weakness of the Eastern Conference. Chicago has the fourth best record in the East (and is only a 1/2 game behind Indiana for 3rd - simply because Indy has played one extra game). And thats all with Derrick Rose still out. San Antonio was without their three top players, playing in Chicago, and routed them. The level of competition out East just isn't that high in general.

True. plus Chicago , i believe is the only playoff team in either conference with a worse home record (15-12) than road record (15-9).

[TheSkeptic]

rebounding from the second unit will be a problem for 10-15 minutes a night even if Splitter is playing with them
he just isnt that good to anchor a defense and grab rebounds like a Duncan can


This is more because defensively, Splitter's probably a PF with good awareness as opposed to a proper 5. Not so much that he's just "not good" tbh. TD's a transcendent big who can play either the 4 or the 5 at a high level. Splitter is similar in that he can also play both big positions and produce, but unlike prime TD, Tiago's weaknesses are more pronounced when he's exclusively playing the 5 defensively or the 4 offensively.

It's been pretty up and down but he's shown that with TD out he can anchor a defense (while playing with Diaw, Blair, and Bonner as "bigs") if he's needed to and that the team can still win games with him doing so. He'll be fine anchoring the second unit for 10-15 a game. I think the Detroit game might be skewing people's sense of perspective here. Despite their record though, the Pistons have multiple good bigs and crafty perimeter players who can penetrate. Have people forgotten what TD looked like against Memphis when McDyess, Blair, and Bonner were the only bigs playing with him? Problems are bound to happen when you face teams like that with only 1 true big on your roster.

The rebounding is troublesome but with TD taking minutes away from Blair/Bonner (which is when the differential seems to go from 5-7 to 12) and guys like Manu, KL, and Jax back I'm honestly not that worried about our defensive rebounding. Spurs are pretty much always going to be a poor offensive rebounding team due to the way Pop has the system set up.



Again, I'm just diagreeing with Skeptic's comment that it's impossible for Mills to do what De Colo did tonight. I'm not saying that De Colo played bad. :lol

Gotta disagree with your disagreement. Except for the part where I get called a "he", will_spurs is spot on.



And I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying: we're not looking at the boxscore, we're looking at the attitude on the court, poise, leadership, "intangibles" and playmaking abilities. In all those categories De Colo is a better player than Mills, with a higher ceiling. That doesn't mean Mills isn't a good or useful player, simply that he doesn't have the skills that are highly valued in a back-up PG. Mills role is likely to be different as he brings energy, passion, determination and streak shooting--all skills that are also important, but for another position (namely back-up SG, especially when Neal goes cold).

I like Mills a lot as a player but in terms of fit, he just can't run an offense like De Colo can. The two times this season that Parker has sat out (Miami and Phoenix), De Colo in spite of his rawness and inexperience was able to step in. His strengths as a player allowed him to manage the game, distribute the ball, and keep the offense looking organized which is more than we can say for CoJo as a rookie or Mills the whole time he's been here.

Compare this to the game last season in Phoenix where Mills was the primary point guard and the difference is simply night and day.

Mills put up points rather inefficiently (which can change from game to game so I don't blame him for that) but the biggest issue to me was that he just didn't have a good feel for when to pass and the team offense looked chaotic with him running the show. His play as a point guard was so hard to watch that I was thrilled to see CoJo sub in and I was thinking very seriously about the pros and cons of Diaw running the sets with Parker out. Patty's gotten a bit better since then but like I said earlier, remember all the complaints we have about Neal running the point? Mills presents all the same problems right down to the hit and miss defense (though Patty at least hustles :tu), the mediocre handles, and the subpar court vision. Do you really want to see that in the playoffs?

If De Colo can learn how to play with Manu, I say we give him the reigns. That playmaking and poise could be a difference maker against teams like the Clippers where Manu might struggle running the second unit's offense. The bench is more potent if it has the option of taking Manu off the ball at times.

[TJastal]

One of my favorite moments was at the 3:47 mark.. Kawhi had the ball, he had Deng and Boozer near him (he chose not to use the Diaw screen) and he stopped and popped and before the basket went in he was already back pedaling cause he knew it was going down. That kind of confidence was great to see from him. I hope we see many more nights where Kawhi can get going like that again, even when everyone is healthy.

He was most likely backpedaling because it is drilled into his head by Pop to always get back on defense as the main priority over crashing the glass.

[will_spurs]

Except for the part where I get called a "he", will_spurs is spot on.

I'll try to remember that next time I have to clarify your thoughts :D

[spurraider21]

On the subject of rebounders, how much longer do you think Bonner will be in the rotation? He's not a very good rebounder, and doesn't really provide much on the defensive end against other 4s. Do you think Pop wil insert Baynes or re-insert Blair into the backup rotation before the end of the season?

Keep in mind that Bonner/Blair will get less minutes when Timmy comes back and plays about 30 minutes per

[EricB]

De Colo really could be another Speedy Claxton. Speedy wasnt a great shooter, most of his points came on cuts or mid range shots. Play good D, handle the ball well, run the offense and don't get in the way is all that is asked and he did that last night. Keep giving him the minutes even on bad nights. It will pay off in the end.

[Boomersgold]

.

[Johnny RIngo]

Matt Bonner :td

fix'd - He played twenty minutes and did everything possible to let the Bulls back in the game. Didn't produce anything meaningful in all that time except for an assist. The sooner we get him off the team, the better off we'll be.

[rmt]

I really liked where Gary Neal took his shots from. Just a few select spots instead of a pox-ridden shot chart. Those floaters will fall.

I also gained a new appreciation for Rip Hamilton with his vet moves of trying to get under Danny Green's skin. Gave me a sense of how opposing fans must have experienced Bowen and his endless bag of chalkboard scratch, irritating tricks.

Bowen and Rip REALLY went at it in 05 Finals.

[Bruno]

Couldn't see the game as my cable went out and didn't come back till an hour after the game ended (PVR'd the repeat on NBA TV and will check it out later today). Going by the boxscore, seems like Nando had a nice game but does his poor shooting not worry you?

It seems like he has the potential to be a decent shooter but maybe his mechanics are a bit off? I guess his solid playmaking can making up for his mediocre shooting as a backup PG.

Nando has always been a good, but not great, shooter. In this game, he was 3/11 but there was a halfcourt prayer and a couple of missed layups in it.

If you wan to see him shooting, Nando posted a couple of weeks ago a video of him working out with Chip during a shootaround:
eojKqiJH2eQ

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Nando has always been a good, but not great, shooter. In this game, he was 3/11 but there was a halfcourt prayer and a couple of missed layups in it.

If you wan to see him shooting, Nando posted a couple of weeks ago a video of him working out with Chip during a shootaround:
eojKqiJH2eQ


Nice find, thanks Bruno :tu

[maverick1948]

No one did any better against the Heat. Don't know how we only lost by 5 in that one.

Don't comment on games you didnt watch. It is clear you dont now how to watch games on the tv.

[maverick1948]

Nando has always been a good, but not great, shooter. In this game, he was 3/11 but there was a halfcourt prayer and a couple of missed layups in it.

If you wan to see him shooting, Nando posted a couple of weeks ago a video of him working out with Chip during a shootaround:
eojKqiJH2eQ


Layups were also contested by a Bull's big. He burned those same bigs when he made the behind the head pass to Tiago. In Matt's defense, he is doing what the "system" cals for him to do. The thing I have noticed lately is more and more, teams are running him off the 3 pt line. They are not leaving him open. He had to develop that little running jump hook. It is looking better as games go by. I am not saying Bonner is the answer to winning a championship, but I think he brings something we need to win. There is a reason he has a high +/- from year to year.

[Boomersgold]

Don't comment on games you didnt watch. It is clear you dont now how to watch games on the tv.

You didn't read the other posts in this thread, did you? I usually READ the posts in a thread before commenting myself.

[BlackSilver]

Bowen and Rip REALLY went at it in 05 Finals.

Yes sir. Best. NBA. Finals. Ever. And Manu the real Finals MVP.

[Pasta Batman]

Layups were also contested by a Bull's big. He burned those same bigs when he made the behind the head pass to Tiago. In Matt's defense, he is doing what the "system" cals for him to do. The thing I have noticed lately is more and more, teams are running him off the 3 pt line. They are not leaving him open. He had to develop that little running jump hook. It is looking better as games go by. I am not saying Bonner is the answer to winning a championship, but I think he brings something we need to win. There is a reason he has a high +/- from year to year.

Bonner is becoming more of a decoy (ending of Cavs game), as long as there is another shooter stationed on the other side (Kawhi).

[Frenchie]

Little bump but Tony Parker just said in his radio show that he wasn't injured against Chicago. Pop wanted to rest him a little bit a give minutes to the bench.

Fake injury, as expected. Good news.