The Case For NOT Saving For College

[DarrinS]

Probably best article I've ever read on Huffingsome Paint

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-bogle/college-savings-_b_2672873.html

[spursncowboys]

That article doesn't put in compound interest for the 1000 saved. But it is a pretty good idea and different way of thinking.

[DarrinS]

That article doesn't put in compound interest for the 1000 saved. But it is a pretty good idea and different way of thinking.

I recently had a small windfall, so this article is both timely and thought-provoking. I have one kid in 3rd grade and one in 6th. Admittedely, I haven't saved a dime for their college (assuming they are even going). But, is it really money well invested? Why wouldn't the things listed in the article be even better investments -- even if they aren't as quantifyable as compounded interest?

[Winehole23]

wouldn't present this as a forking path.

the two options aren't mutually exclusive; one can strike a balance between prudent saving and participation.

[TeyshaBlue]

I recently had a small windfall, so this article is both timely and thought-provoking. I have one kid in 3rd grade and one in 6th. Admittedely, I haven't saved a dime for their college (assuming they are even going). But, is it really money well invested? Why wouldn't the things listed in the article be even better investments -- even if they aren't as quantifyable as compounded interest?

Hard question to answer at that age. If they develop interests that require formal training, then college may be necessary. The kicker is you have to hedge against that uncertainty by racking back cash now in case they do want to pursue college. My folks had a nice pile put back for me. I went to school on a full scholarship. They bought a motorhome. lol

[spursncowboys]

I recently had a small windfall, so this article is both timely and thought-provoking. I have one kid in 3rd grade and one in 6th. Admittedely, I haven't saved a dime for their college (assuming they are even going). But, is it really money well invested? Why wouldn't the things listed in the article be even better investments -- even if they aren't as quantifyable as compounded interest?
True. Yeah I got a 1st grader, Prek and a 2 year old and I'm just starting to save. They already have their college paid for but I still want to have something for them. I might do something like in the R. Kyosaki book when they turn 18, where they get the money to invest in something.

[DarrinS]

Hard question to answer at that age. If they develop interests that require formal training, then college may be necessary. The kicker is you have to hedge against that uncertainty by racking back cash now in case they do want to pursue college. My folks had a nice pile put back for me. I went to school on a full scholarship. They bought a motorhome. lol


I went to community college and then UTSA on part-time work and student loans. Would I have been better off, had I had my ride paid for? Who knows. I don't have anything but my own experience to go on. I would say, that since it took me longer to graduate, and I was an older student, that I valued it more.

[TeyshaBlue]

I went to community college and then UTSA on part-time work and student loans. Would I have been better off, had I had my ride paid for? Who knows. I don't have anything but my own experience to go on. I would say, that since it took me longer to graduate, and I was an older student, that I valued it more.

Cant really fault that POV, tbh.

[spursncowboys]

Hard question to answer at that age. If they develop interests that require formal training, then college may be necessary. The kicker is you have to hedge against that uncertainty by racking back cash now in case they do want to pursue college. My folks had a nice pile put back for me. I went to school on a full scholarship. They bought a motorhome. lol

:lmao
My mom did something similar. Well she spent it on bills when times got tough. I went to Jr Co and got a full ride scholarship afterwards so only had like 3 grand in debt I had to repay.

[DarrinS]

wouldn't present this as a forking path.

the two options aren't mutually exclusive; one can strike a balance between prudent saving and participation.


Well, like I said, it was a small windfall. I could put something aside, but I doubt it would be that much in 6-10 years.

[spursncowboys]

I went to community college and then UTSA on part-time work and student loans. Would I have been better off, had I had my ride paid for? Who knows. I don't have anything but my own experience to go on. I would say, that since it took me longer to graduate, and I was an older student, that I valued it more.
:toast

[LnGrrrR]

I'm trying to do both. The wife doesn't tend to trust babysitters, so we bring our kids to restaurants, hiking trails, movies, museums, etc etc. And being in the military, I'm pretty sure he'll get to see a decent amount of the world. Also, I'm not telling my kid about it... I'm going to make him think he has to do it on his own, and if he chooses a good career, and gets good grades, then MAYBE I'll tell him about it. :)

[DarrinS]

:lmao
My mom did something similar. Well she spent it on bills when times got tough. I went to Jr Co and got a full ride scholarship afterwards so only had like 3 grand in debt I had to repay.

I think I had around $10K in loan debt, but I graduated in 1994. I still don't get why students would bury themselves in 6-figure debt over a liberal arts degree from some prestigious university.

[DarrinS]

I'm trying to do both. The wife doesn't tend to trust babysitters, so we bring our kids to restaurants, hiking trails, movies, museums, etc etc. And being in the military, I'm pretty sure he'll get to see a decent amount of the world.


My wife is a military brat, so she got to see a lot of Europe.

[sickdsm]

The wife said she had a hard time getting the loans because they base everything on your parents' income even though she did it all by herself. Three jobs, four year degree in 4 years and car payments.

I think having your education payed for is a dangerous situation. Especially if said kids also have a savings account funded by someone else.

[DarrinS]

The wife said she had a hard time getting the loans because they base everything on your parents' income even though she did it all by herself. Three jobs, four year degree in 4 years and car payments.

I think having your education payed for is a dangerous situation. Especially if said kids also have a savings account funded by someone else.


I didn't know that student loans were based on parents' income. If that's the case, I'm surprised I was ever loaned any money. Might it also be based on the type of degree you are getting? I know people that were loaned tons of money to attend med school.

[sjacquemotte]

Federally backed loans and fafsa go by your parents until age 29i think

[Nbadan]

Federally backed loans and fafsa go by your parents until age 29i think

..and the costs of the school you are attending....not having anything or very little saved is a bigger problem in the U.S.

[Nbadan]

I'm trying to do both. The wife doesn't tend to trust babysitters, so we bring our kids to restaurants, hiking trails, movies, museums, etc etc.

Emmm...yeah, unless I'm at Apple bees blow me.......kids at movies not rated G ain't cool..

[Agloco]

I didn't know that student loans were based on parents' income. If that's the case, I'm surprised I was ever loaned any money. Might it also be based on the type of degree you are getting? I know people that were loaned tons of money to attend med school.

True. Med students usually get a waiver based on future potential.

[Drachen]

The wife said she had a hard time getting the loans because they base everything on your parents' income even though she did it all by herself. Three jobs, four year degree in 4 years and car payments.

I think having your education payed for is a dangerous situation. Especially if said kids also have a savings account funded by someone else.


I didn't know that student loans were based on parents' income. If that's the case, I'm surprised I was ever loaned any money. Might it also be based on the type of degree you are getting? I know people that were loaned tons of money to attend med school.

This isn't entirely true. If you are a dependent student then they use your parent's income information for Pell grant qualification and you are eligible for 5500 for your freshman year (6500 for sophmore and 7500 for junior). You are a dependent student if ALL of these are answered with "False".

You were born before January 1, 1990
You are or will be enrolled in a masters or Doctoral degree program at the beginning of the school year
You are married on the day you file your FAFSA
You are a parent
You have dependents other than your spouse who live with you and who receive more than half their support from you at the time you apply
Both your parents are deceased (or were until age 18) a ward of dependent of the court
You are currently serving on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces for purposes other than training
You're a Veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces
You were a foster child after the age of 13
You are an emancipated child as determined by a court judge
You are homeless or at risk of homelessness as determined by the director of a HUD approved homeless shelter, transitional program, or high school liaison

[Drachen]

Also, if I remember correctly, you can qualify for independent money as a dependent student (9500 for freshman, 10500 sophmore, 12500 junior +) if your parents apply for a private loan and are denied and show a proof of denial.

Worst case scenario, you get 5500 on stafford.

[Drachen]

True. Med students usually get a waiver based on future potential.

The waiver that Med students get isn't based on parents at all. their waiver is for lifetime loan limits.

57,500 for Undergraduate
138,500 for Graduate or professional
224,000 for Health professionals

It aggregates too. If you spend 50 on your undegrad then you have 88500 for your graduate degree.

[Drachen]

Ok, just read the article. I like it. I went to Germany for a year as an exchange student when i was 16 and I would say that it was probably one of the most valuable years of my life (learning wise)

[Capt Bringdown]

Both parents with no post-secondary education
Single-earner household
House in the 'burbs
Summer family vacations the norm
First family member to graduate college & it didn't involve tremendous financial sacrifice/debt/lifelong planning.

I'm glad I grew up in such a period (which wasn't that long ago)
I think the above is the case to be made.

[Jacob1983]

College is a ponzi scheme.

[LnGrrrR]

Emmm...yeah, unless I'm at Apple bees blow me.......kids at movies not rated G ain't cool..

One, I don't get the Applebees line. Two, PG-13 is, ya know, with parental guidance. Three, I was watching R movies as a kid (roughly 8 to 10 years old), and didn't turn out to be some idiot because my parents explained what was good and bad in the movies. Fourth, I have a 3 and a 1 year old... you really think I'm even trying to take them to movies that won't entertain them with bright colors and loud noises? Fifth, gfy.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

College is a ponzi scheme.

For people who get worthless degrees, yes.

[leemajors]

One, I don't get the Applebees line. Two, PG-13 is, ya know, with parental guidance. Three, I was watching R movies as a kid (roughly 8 to 10 years old), and didn't turn out to be some idiot because my parents explained what was good and bad in the movies. Fourth, I have a 3 and a 1 year old... you really think I'm even trying to take them to movies that won't entertain them with bright colors and loud noises? Fifth, gfy.

One of my good friends' mom dropped him off at the mall to see Conan when he was 5 :lol

[symple19]

wouldn't present this as a forking path.

the two options aren't mutually exclusive; one can strike a balance between prudent saving and participation.

I agree with this...My parents did both.

[symple19]

Thought it was an excellent article. Life experience before 18 is invaluable, tbh

[DarrinS]

I agree with this...My parents did both.

If you can AFFORD to do both, that is ideal.

[LnGrrrR]

One of my good friends' mom dropped him off at the mall to see Conan when he was 5 :lol

Did he refer to her as a "wench" when he got back to his house? :lol

[Drachen]

Did he refer to her as a "wench" when he got back to his house? :lol

He probably stole all of his sister's barbies and told them that he must hear their lamentations.

[LnGrrrR]

"Crom, give me the strength to hit this homerun to win the game... and if you don't, then to HELL WITH YOU!"

[Drachen]

Crom laughs at your Joe Boo

[TeyshaBlue]

*whistles as threads sail over my head*

[ploto]

There is no reason why you can not do things with your kid and still save some money if like him you have $2000 per year with which to deal. You can drive to national parks and state parks for little money and still have lots of time together and save the rest for their future. You can visit museums during their free time and attend cultural events and talks for free at many universities if you have one nearby. Libraries have books you can check out for free.

I have no clue where he gets the notion that people who are saving for their kid's college are not doing things with them, as well. I would suggest that those are the very people who are probably already doing the kinds of things he suggests because they value learning of all types.

[sickdsm]

There is no reason why you can not do things with your kid and still save some money if like him you have $2000 per year with which to deal. You can drive to national parks and state parks for little money and still have lots of time together and save the rest for their future. You can visit museums during their free time and attend cultural events and talks for free at many universities if you have one nearby. Libraries have books you can check out for free.

I have no clue where he gets the notion that people who are saving for their kid's college are not doing things with them, as well. I would suggest that those are the very people who are probably already doing the kinds of things he suggests because they value learning of all types.


The problem with that is it is too easy to forget about the local destinations and think we need to travel across the country to do similar things. Most of us are guilty of forgetting about our backyard.

Also, it takes a diferent lifestyle to open eyes. My kids would be wide eyed to experience san antonio but to those that live their, probably not so much.

[sjacquemotte]

True. It took a bunch of medics who trained in San Antonio to tell me about alot of stuff I had never done...

[Agloco]

The waiver that Med students get isn't based on parents at all. their waiver is for lifetime loan limits.

57,500 for Undergraduate
138,500 for Graduate or professional
224,000 for Health professionals

It aggregates too. If you spend 50 on your undegrad then you have 88500 for your graduate degree.

Ya. I think I stated that the loan limits were based on their future earnings potential....at least I was trying to anyway. :lol

[Latarian Milton]

college is shit these days but education is still a better investment than the stock and real estate market imho, and you don't necessarily have to attend a college to be a well educated person. working as an apprentice or intern in the profession your interested in will give you more knowledge than the teacher can possibly teach you in a classroom imho

[Xevious]

Well, like I said, it was a small windfall. I could put something aside, but I doubt it would be that much in 6-10 years.
Most of us won't be able to save enough to really make that much of a difference. School is outrageously expensive these days. All I'm hoping for is to get them started, to put something away for emergencies.

[MannyIsGod]

I recently had a small windfall, so this article is both timely and thought-provoking. I have one kid in 3rd grade and one in 6th. Admittedely, I haven't saved a dime for their college (assuming they are even going). But, is it really money well invested? Why wouldn't the things listed in the article be even better investments -- even if they aren't as quantifyable as compounded interest?

SMH

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't know that student loans were based on parents' income. If that's the case, I'm surprised I was ever loaned any money. Might it also be based on the type of degree you are getting? I know people that were loaned tons of money to attend med school.

All student financial aid is based on parental and student income until they are 24 years old even if they are independent students.

[MannyIsGod]

There is no reason why you can not do things with your kid and still save some money if like him you have $2000 per year with which to deal. You can drive to national parks and state parks for little money and still have lots of time together and save the rest for their future. You can visit museums during their free time and attend cultural events and talks for free at many universities if you have one nearby. Libraries have books you can check out for free.

I have no clue where he gets the notion that people who are saving for their kid's college are not doing things with them, as well. I would suggest that those are the very people who are probably already doing the kinds of things he suggests because they value learning of all types.

:tu

[Drachen]

All student financial aid is based on parental and student income until they are 24 years old even if they are independent students.

No.

That is unless you are just using the word " independent" to mean " doesn't live with parents". The definition of independent recognized by the department of ed (from my post above) means parental income doesn't matter (ONE of the things to make you independent is turning 24)

[sickdsm]

With all the information and misinformation ( i dont know who is right) on this thread, does it even matter? If a bunch of seemingly mildly intelligent adults cant agree how student loans work, how is the 18 yr old going to figure it out on his/her own?

[Drachen]

With all the information and misinformation ( i dont know who is right) on this thread, does it even matter? If a bunch of seemingly mildly intelligent adults cant agree how student loans work, how is the 18 yr old going to figure it out on his/her own?

I work for a university.

[sickdsm]

Like i said, i didnt know whos right. I assume you probably are but hs counselors as far as i remember are really dropping the ball on this issue.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

*whistles as threads sail over my head*

Crom is the god of REH's Conan.


Crom is worshipped, if that is truly the case, it is presumed, by the bulk of the Cimmerian people. The name is probably derived from the ancient Irish deity Crom Cruach. Crom is a grim and gloomy god, ever watching from atop his mountain in dark clouds and obscuring mists, ready to pass a disapproving judgment on any and all, but he is said to approve of courage and tenacity, even if the human is too frail to succeed. He is not so much worshipped as invoked (In Howard's works Conan exclaims things like "Crom and his devils"), as a swearword or when trying to gather one's courage. Not that he ever does anything, good or bad, to mortals. It is said that his sole gift to men is to bestow them at birth with the courage to go on, survive, and vanquish adversity.

http://conan.wikia.com/wiki/Crom

You are a better person now that you know this. You can thank me later.

[Agloco]

Thought it was an excellent article. Life experience before 18 is invaluable, tbh

Learning to manage finances properly before venturing off on your own is of particular importance. My children already have their own accounts with the Bank of Dad. I absolutely refuse to leave them clueless to the game as the loan offers begin to roll in later on.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah Drachan your list is right. I didn't see it when I replied although I was using the more common meaning of the word independent. There must have been some changes since I was 24 but maybe not because I never qualified for any of those scenarios anyway. Basically, those scenarios don't cover very much of the population so while your post is technically right I do think the vast majority of students end up having to report parental income until their 24.

Honestly I don't think financial aid is that hard to understand but it changes so damn often. There are things that go right down to these last minute deals in DC that have huge effects (my tax return will be delayed this year because I'm claiming a tax credit for tuition, IE).

I don't anticipate having children, but if I did there is no way I'd let them fend for themselves. I cringe when I hear about people like Darrin trying to compare working through college in the past to having to do it today. Its simply irresponsible of a parent not to put your kids in the best possible situation and especially when the government is going to count your income against them until they are 24.

[TDMVPDPOY]

college is not for everyone, but u can always use it to save money for the long term...whether car, marriage, house for ur child...

[DarrinS]

Yeah Drachan your list is right. I didn't see it when I replied although I was using the more common meaning of the word independent. There must have been some changes since I was 24 but maybe not because I never qualified for any of those scenarios anyway. Basically, those scenarios don't cover very much of the population so while your post is technically right I do think the vast majority of students end up having to report parental income until their 24.

Honestly I don't think financial aid is that hard to understand but it changes so damn often. There are things that go right down to these last minute deals in DC that have huge effects (my tax return will be delayed this year because I'm claiming a tax credit for tuition, IE).

I don't anticipate having children, but if I did there is no way I'd let them fend for themselves. I cringe when I hear about people like Darrin trying to compare working through college in the past to having to do it today. Its simply irresponsible of a parent not to put your kids in the best possible situation and especially when the government is going to count your income against them until they are 24.


Then STFU. I didn't say I haven't saved ANY money -- just not SPECIFICALLY for their education.


And cry me a river with all this "it's so much harder to work through college these days" :cry

[MannyIsGod]

Then STFU. I didn't say I haven't saved ANY money -- just not SPECIFICALLY for their education.


And cry me a river with all this "it's so much harder to work through college these days" :cry

I'm not asking for your sympathy, Darrin. I'm pointing out the facts. It is a fact that people in college level jobs make less today and its a fact that tuition has increased at an astronomical rate in the past decade +. I would never ask for your sympathy or even understanding seeing as you're one of the most myopic people I've ever encountered in my life and seeing as I've managed to put myself through school in a much harder time than you did. I do feel a bit sorry for your kids, though. They didn't ask to have such a bad father.

[Agloco]

And cry me a river with all this "it's so much harder to work through college these days" :cry

It happens to be true though. Denial won't change that.

[baseline bum]

I'm not asking for your sympathy, Darrin. I'm pointing out the facts. It is a fact that people in college level jobs make less today and its a fact that tuition has increased at an astronomical rate in the past decade +. I would never ask for your sympathy or even understanding seeing as you're one of the most myopic people I've ever encountered in my life and seeing as I've managed to put myself through school in a much harder time than you did. I do feel a bit sorry for your kids, though. They didn't ask to have such a bad father.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m82zizbP9J1rzyegio1_400.gif

[DarrinS]

I'm not asking for your sympathy, Darrin. I'm pointing out the facts. It is a fact that people in college level jobs make less today and its a fact that tuition has increased at an astronomical rate in the past decade +. I would never ask for your sympathy or even understanding seeing as you're one of the most myopic people I've ever encountered in my life and seeing as I've managed to put myself through school in a much harder time than you did. I do feel a bit sorry for your kids, though. They didn't ask to have such a bad father.

Meh, don't feel sorry for my kids. They are both in GT programs and excel academically. I often wonder if they'll tire of school and do their own thing. The most creative and talented people often drop out of college.

[DarrinS]

It happens to be true though. Denial won't change that.

Data?

[Latarian Milton]

I'm not asking for your sympathy, Darrin. I'm pointing out the facts. It is a fact that people in college level jobs make less today and its a fact that tuition has increased at an astronomical rate in the past decade +. I would never ask for your sympathy or even understanding seeing as you're one of the most myopic people I've ever encountered in my life and seeing as I've managed to put myself through school in a much harder time than you did. I do feel a bit sorry for your kids, though. They didn't ask to have such a bad father.
at least they don't have to live with the inferior genes from their yellow dads throughout their lifetimes. college has been shit for years and hs graduates should be aware of the risk/reward ratio before setting up their mind to go to colleges, and that even an advanced college degree won't guarantee shit in the lame economy. dudes need to plan their own futures, and compared to getting through the courses, a more important mission for them students is to get smarter and more mature through the 4yr school life, which you obviously fell short of

[Latarian Milton]

Yeah Drachan your list is right. I didn't see it when I replied although I was using the more common meaning of the word independent. There must have been some changes since I was 24 but maybe not because I never qualified for any of those scenarios anyway. Basically, those scenarios don't cover very much of the population so while your post is technically right I do think the vast majority of students end up having to report parental income until their 24.

Honestly I don't think financial aid is that hard to understand but it changes so damn often. There are things that go right down to these last minute deals in DC that have huge effects (my tax return will be delayed this year because I'm claiming a tax credit for tuition, IE).

I don't anticipate having children, but if I did there is no way I'd let them fend for themselves. I cringe when I hear about people like Darrin trying to compare working through college in the past to having to do it today. Its simply irresponsible of a parent not to put your kids in the best possible situation and especially when the government is going to count your income against them until they are 24.
there were no english classes or tests back in the time when you were studying in college im guessing, if you ever attended any college or whatsoever.

and that's another example why the current educational system is a fucked up one. education is a god given right for them american students, at least those state-funded colleges shouldn't charge the students that much when their parents have been paying taxes to the government their whole lives. the irony is it's much easier for the kids from foreign countries and the families of "legal" immigrants to get financial aid from the government of the United Fucking States, and when a local student wants to apply for subsidy or student loan, the government needs to take into account their parents' income and leaves them buried in debt by the time they graduate, while granting aids to immigrants bastards for FREE!!!

it is a damn FUCKING SHAME i saaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidddddddddd...

[Jacob1983]

America's culture on college needs to change or there at least needs to be a 2nd opinion or view on it. We need to stop brainwashing kids into thinking that college is the only option for kids after high school. That type of brainwashing can really fuck up people. It fucked me up big time and I'm now paying the price. I can admit that I made a lot of mistakes and basically listened to and followed terrible advice. At the time, the advice seemed like it was right and logical but looking back on it, the advice was horrible and I was a fuckin' idiot for listening to it. I'd love to give speeches on this. I'd probably do it for free because I feel sorry for these little peckers that are putting themselves in debt and ruining their credit just so they can have a piece of paper that says they graduated. In recent history, I probably graduated in the worst periods of time. I graduated from high school in 2002. It wasn't even a year after 9/11. I graduated from college in 2008 and we all know what happened to the economy in 2008. Extremely bad timing.

[leemajors]

Data?

My tuition my last semester at UT (Fall 1999) with 13 hours was a grand total of $2500. 7 years later my brother went back to UT after dropping out and his last semester tuition was around $9k for 12 hours.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm not asking for your sympathy, Darrin. I'm pointing out the facts. It is a fact that people in college level jobs make less today and its a fact that tuition has increased at an astronomical rate in the past decade +. I would never ask for your sympathy or even understanding seeing as you're one of the most myopic people I've ever encountered in my life and seeing as I've managed to put myself through school in a much harder time than you did. I do feel a bit sorry for your kids, though. They didn't ask to have such a bad father.

:lmao finally someone stopped dancing around the fact this thread is a bunch of people finding ways to justify their shitty and selfish parenting.

Being incapable of saving for your kids' education due to financial constraint is one thing, being completely able to save and chosing not to is shitty parenting. College is both more expensive and more important than ever these days.

[Wild Cobra]

It happens to be true though. Denial won't change that.
WTF?

Please tell me, what makes it harder to work and go to school than 30 years ago?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

WTF?

Please tell me, what makes it harder to work and go to school than 30 years ago?

The fact that tuition is a lot higher now than it was 30 years ago (and no, it's not just inflation).

[Wild Cobra]

The fact that tuition is a lot higher now than it was 30 years ago (and no, it's not just inflation).
And that means it's harder to work while going to college?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And that means it's harder to work while going to college?

I don't think anyone is saying merely working and going to college is hard (I did it through most of college and it wasn't that challenging, but I didn't have to worry about about paying tuition). Putting yourself through college by working and going to school is what's become harder.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't think anyone is saying merely working and going to college is hard (I did it through most of college and it wasn't that challenging, but I didn't have to worry about about paying tuition). Putting yourself through college by working and going to school is what's become harder.
Granted, it costs more today than in the past vs. wages and living expenses, but that's no reason do go in debt more than necessary. To do so is irresponsible.

[LnGrrrR]

Granted, it costs more today than in the past vs. wages and living expenses, but that's no reason do go in debt more than necessary. To do so is irresponsible.

I guess that's where you have to define "necessary"... seems like the job market is so glutted right now, you need a degree or relevant experience just to compete. I would say a liberal arts degree is somewat of a waste, but certainly not so for any of the STEM careers.

[Wild Cobra]

I guess that's where you have to define "necessary"... seems like the job market is so glutted right now, you need a degree or relevant experience just to compete. I would say a liberal arts degree is somewat of a waste, but certainly not so for any of the STEM careers.
I see...

Too good for any job...

feeling entitled by chance?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Granted, it costs more today than in the past vs. wages and living expenses, but that's no reason do go in debt more than necessary. To do so is irresponsible.

Going into debt to get a liberal arts degree is irresponsible, yes, going into debt to get a technical degree that leads to a job isn't irresponsible.

It's really a myth now that the job market is horrible and ANY college grad is lucky to get a job out of school. There's a premium on anyone who's capable of doing math.

[BobaFett1]

Man Economy sucks and a college degree is no promise of success.

[Wild Cobra]

Going into debt to get a liberal arts degree is irresponsible, yes, going into debt to get a technical degree that leads to a job isn't irresponsible.

It's really a myth now that the job market is horrible and ANY college grad is lucky to get a job out of school. There's a premium on anyone who's capable of doing math.

but that's no reason do go in debt more than necessary

[LnGrrrR]

I see...

Too good for any job...

feeling entitled by chance?

What the heck are you talking about? I think you need to reread what I posted.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol Food Stamps Cobra accusing someone else of feeling entitled

[DarrinS]

The fact that college tuition has outpaced inflation is not a new phenomenon.

http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml

[2centsworth]

hilarious to see people who admittedly hate kids and others who admit to never wanting kids give parenting advice:lol.

I believe developing your child's emotional intelligence is just as important as developing their intellectual intelligence.

I applaud the out-of-the-box thinking. As far as school, accepting my kids special gifts and nurturing those gifts is my biggest challenge.

I side with Winehole on this one.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The fact that college tuition has outpaced inflation is not a new phenomenon.

http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml
If you understand how compounding interest works, you'll know that link means college gets more expensive every year with respect to inflation meaning it's currently a lot more expensive than it was 30 years ago. Way to prove Manny's point.

That link is also old information from before the recession when states like Arizona and Texas slashed funding. In 2009 when I was a freshman, tuition was around $3000 a semester. This is my last semester and tuition was $5700.

[DarrinS]

MIT OpenCourseWare

FREEEEEEEEE


http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm

[DarrinS]

If you understand how compounding interest works, you'll know that link means college gets more expensive every year with respect to inflation meaning it's currently a lot more expensive than it was 30 years ago. Way to prove Manny's point.

That link is also old information from before the recession when states like Arizona and Texas slashed funding. In 2009 when I was a freshman, tuition was around $3000 a semester. This is my last semester and tuition was $5700.


I don't disagree that college cost more than when I was a student. A lot of things cost more these days.

[MannyIsGod]

I guess you have to want to kids to also understand that stabbing your kid in the eye is a sign of being a bad parent. Common sense need not apply.

[DarrinS]

I guess you have to want to kids to also understand that stabbing your kid in the eye is a sign of being a bad parent. Common sense need not apply.

Thanks for the lecture on parenthood. Now, go feed your cat.

[2centsworth]

I guess you have to want to kids to also understand that stabbing your kid in the eye is a sign of being a bad parent. Common sense need not apply.

nobody is talking about committing a crime. If you were to ever have a kid you would realize how important quality time spent together is. The article just talked about how families should think twice before sacrificing that time in favor of saving for college.

Some of the worst people in the world have advanced degrees (think Republican Party).

[MannyIsGod]

nobody is talking about committing a crime. If you were to ever have a kid you would realize how important quality time spent together is. The article just talked about how families should think twice before sacrificing that time in favor of saving for college.

Some of the worst people in the world have advanced degrees (think Republican Party).

Its a red herring. You can spend quality time with your kids and do many trips - especially in places like Texas - and do so cheaply and STILL manage to put money away for college.

You guys are free to spend your money and raise your kids as you wish but somehow writing off the opinion that not saving for your children's future can be quite irresponsible simply because I choose not to have children is laughable. Honestly, from what I know about you Pete I would be fairly shocked if you weren't saving for their future.

[MannyIsGod]

Thanks for the lecture on parenthood. Now, go feed your cat.

Congrats on forgetting to put on a condom. I'm sure that action has really made you into a better person and completed your life. Maybe you can apply for a patent on the process. :tu

[baseline bum]

I don't disagree that college cost more than when I was a student. A lot of things cost more these days.

Increased college costs = inflation?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I guess thats the hyperinflation Parker was always talking about.

[MannyIsGod]

LOL Darrin's generation screws over all future generations through building up the debt and ruining the economy, doesn't even save for his kids futures, and then turns around and tells me to cry him a river when I point out facts.

Endless comedy on this forum sometimes.

[baseline bum]

LOL Darrin's generation screws over all future generations through building up the debt and ruining the economy, doesn't even save for his kids futures, and then turns around and tells me to cry him a river when I point out facts.

Endless comedy on this forum sometimes.

DarrinS doesn't really believe the idiotic shit he says.

[2centsworth]

Its a red herring. You can spend quality time with your kids and do many trips - especially in places like Texas - and do so cheaply and STILL manage to put money away for college.

You guys are free to spend your money and raise your kids as you wish but somehow writing off the opinion that not saving for your children's future can be quite irresponsible simply because I choose not to have children is laughable. Honestly, from what I know about you Pete I would be fairly shocked if you weren't saving for their future.

No doubt Manny, but I've seen kids who's parents had plenty of money fall off the deep end. I can see how someone could argue a family trip to Europe or season tickets to the theatre are just as important as schooling. Plus, the argument that a kid at 18 who's parent pays for their school will get less from college than a 28 yr old who pays for his own schooling is reasonable to me.

There is no right or wrong way, but will probably vary for each individual kid. Parents are in the best situation to do what's best for their children.

btw, my op wasn't entirely directed at you, but instead Baseline Bum, the admitted child hating pornographer .

[DarrinS]

Congrats on forgetting to put on a condom. I'm sure that action has really made you into a better person and completed your life. Maybe you can apply for a patent on the process. :tu

Were you a dick before or after your college education? I'm guessing you were always a dick.

Both of my kids were planned, btw.

[TeyshaBlue]

Crom is the god of REH's Conan.



http://conan.wikia.com/wiki/Crom

You are a better person now that you know this. You can thank me later.

You're a giver.:lol:toast

[TeyshaBlue]

Thanks for the lecture on parenthood. Now, go feed your cat.

I lol'd.

[baseline bum]

btw, my op wasn't entirely directed at you, but instead Baseline Bum, the admitted child hating pornographer .

:lol

Nope, you were attacking Manny dumbass, because I didn't say shit about raising kids in this thread.

[2centsworth]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m82zizbP9J1rzyegio1_400.gif

[baseline bum]

:lol me posting a GIF laughing about how Manny kills DarrinS on school being way more expensive and worth less now while scoffing DarrinS's constant need to prop himself up is parenting advice?

But even in your interpretation you're still scoffing Manny; lol it's not about you Manny, it's about that atheist fuck who agreed with your post. :cry

:lol butthurt bible thumper

[MannyIsGod]

Were you a dick before or after your college education? I'm guessing you were always a dick.

Both of my kids were planned, btw.

Oh we're both dicks, Darrin. I'm just wittier than you.

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh we're both dicks, Darrin. I'm just wittier than you.

:lol

Still think the cat line left a mark.:p:

[Latarian Milton]

America's culture on college needs to change or there at least needs to be a 2nd opinion or view on it. We need to stop brainwashing kids into thinking that college is the only option for kids after high school. That type of brainwashing can really fuck up people. It fucked me up big time and I'm now paying the price. I can admit that I made a lot of mistakes and basically listened to and followed terrible advice. At the time, the advice seemed like it was right and logical but looking back on it, the advice was horrible and I was a fuckin' idiot for listening to it. I'd love to give speeches on this. I'd probably do it for free because I feel sorry for these little peckers that are putting themselves in debt and ruining their credit just so they can have a piece of paper that says they graduated. In recent history, I probably graduated in the worst periods of time. I graduated from high school in 2002. It wasn't even a year after 9/11. I graduated from college in 2008 and we all know what happened to the economy in 2008. Extremely bad timing.
nothing looks perfect in the hindsight imho. you always feel you could've done better in the past, and you can regret for some of the decisions you've made in the past, but no one is a prophet. it's never a smart choice to follow someone else's advice when you're the one who's responsible for your life. i suppose people who gave your the "terrible" advice were also the ones you trusted (otherwise you wouldn't have followed their advice), but you can't blame them for giving you the terrible advice, you should take the responsibility of yourself and it's unfair to say they wished you bad or something. their advice just don't apply to the 21st century anymore, they belong to the past generation.

therefore, even your parents' advice ain't guaranteed to be the best for you. maybe their advice was the best for themselves and for the 70s and 80s, but that's obviously outdated in the present world imho.

at least you haven't stepped into a woman's trap (marriage or relationship) yet, so your dream is still alive (knowing that women are all dream killers). and don't forget the proverb that says "a woman is as old as she looks, while a man is as old as he thinks", which means that you're always young as long as you have a young heart.

you once said you were still a virgin at age 25, and that's such a remarkable achievement for a guy that i have to give you all my genuine respect, when most youngsters nowadays will have lost their virginities before age 16. only the ones who have the highest intelligence and the strongest fortitude can manage to resist the natural/inborn appetite of a human being tbh. being an "old" virgin ain't something to be ashamed of, but something you can be proud of imho.

if you can only make one right decision in your lifetime, you should make it now. quit living as a subordinate to them feminists and be the person that you really are

[Jacob1983]

I've been honestly thinking about just saying "fuck it" and just leave North Texas and see the world. For me, there's more to life than North Texas. I live paycheck to paycheck but sometimes you cannot pass up an adventure. I'd love to just get away for like half a year or a year and just go explore the world. It would be nice. One can dream I guess.

[Wild Cobra]

I've been honestly thinking about just saying "fuck it" and just leave North Texas and see the world. For me, there's more to life than North Texas. I live paycheck to paycheck but sometimes you cannot pass up an adventure. I'd love to just get away for like half a year or a year and just go explore the world. It would be nice. One can dream I guess.
Yes, you should leave North Texas. Oklahoma is a terrible state.

[boutons_deux]

It Takes a B.A. to Find a Job as a File Clerk

The college degree is becoming the new high school diploma: the new minimum requirement, albeit an expensive one, for getting even the lowest-level job.
Economists have referred to this phenomenon as "degree inflation," and it has been steadily infiltrating America's job market. Across industries and geographic areas, many other jobs that didn't used to require a diploma - positions like dental hygienists, cargo agents, clerks and claims adjusters - are increasingly requiring one, according to Burning Glass, a company that analyzes job ads from more than 20,000 online sources, including major job boards and small- to midsize-employer sites.

"Going to college means they are making a real commitment to their futures. They're not just looking for a paycheck."


This up-credentialing is pushing the less educated even further down the food chain, and it helps explain why the unemployment rate for workers with no more than a high school diploma is more than twice that for workers with a bachelor's degree: 8.1 percent versus 3.7 percent.


Some jobs, like those in supply chain management and logistics, have become more technical, and so require more advanced skills today than they did in the past. But more broadly, because so many people are going to college now, those who do not graduate are often assumed to be unambitious or less capable.


Plus, it's a buyer's market for employers.


"When you get 800 résumés for every job ad, you need to weed them out somehow,"
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by-increasing-number-of-companies.xml?f=19

:lol So you spend $10Ks for college, and get a job a file clerk, receptionist, etc. GREAT career move, and congrats on "not just looking for a paycheck". :lol

[sickdsm]

I feel the degree inflation has a lot to do with the dumbing of America. If you got your ish together, youll find a great job, regardless of a degree. Cream ALWAYS rises to the top. The problem stems from within the pool of idiots, you can assume one is halfways competant if they survived college.

Too many people grow up thinking that life is like a video game. "If i get that degree, im guaranteed $50k, i can always level up to a masters and double my income"

As the idiot pool grows larger, a work ethic and common sense are a more valued skillset, employers can tell alot about someone through a few minute interview. Hiring on paper is so outdated.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol me posting a GIF laughing about how Manny kills DarrinS on school being way more expensive and worth less now while scoffing DarrinS's constant need to prop himself up is parenting advice?

But even in your interpretation you're still scoffing Manny; lol it's not about you Manny, it's about that atheist fuck who agreed with your post. :cry

:lol butthurt bible thumper
:lmao

[TeyshaBlue]

I've been honestly thinking about just saying "fuck it" and just leave North Texas and see the world. For me, there's more to life than North Texas. I live paycheck to paycheck but sometimes you cannot pass up an adventure. I'd love to just get away for like half a year or a year and just go explore the world. It would be nice. One can dream I guess.

In the 90's, I quit teaching to take a gig as a sideman on a world tour for Alligator Records for a little more than a year. It was illuminating, to say the least and served up many lessons. However, my epiphany that defined that experience was: You can't find the middle unless you've been to the edge. At the end of the tour, I was fucking begging for anything approaching middle/normalcy. The larger meta-lesson for me was: I can manufacture my own happiness and supply fulfillment.

YMMV.

[LnGrrrR]

In the 90's, I quit teaching to take a gig as a sideman on a world tour for Alligator Records for a little more than a year. It was illuminating, to say the least and served up many lessons. However, my epiphany that defined that experience was: You can't find the middle unless you've been to the edge. At the end of the tour, I was fucking begging for anything approaching middle/normalcy. The larger meta-lesson for me was: I can manufacture my own happiness and supply fulfillment.

YMMV.

Translated: I like being an old fuddy duddy. :D

[TeyshaBlue]

Translated: I like being an old fuddy duddy. :D

you gonna go home and tell yer boyfriend you got whooped by a fuddy duddy?:ihit

[LnGrrrR]

you gonna go home and tell yer boyfriend you got whooped by a fuddy duddy?:ihit

Is that you Mavs>Spurs? :lol

Plus, you'd have to get on-base first. :)

[TeyshaBlue]

Is that you Mavs>Spurs? :lol

Plus, you'd have to get on-base first. :)

I'm a ninja.

[TeyshaBlue]

And I have a wide array of super powers.

[Drachen]

Is that you Mavs>Spurs? :lol

Plus, you'd have to get on-base first. :)


And I have a wide array of super powers.


Don't forget, lngrrr, Tony Spark here has his petroleum money to buy all those wonderful toys.

[ploto]

I'd love to just get away for like half a year or a year and just go explore the world. It would be nice. One can dream I guess.

Join the Peace Corps.

[ploto]

As to the original article, I can not help but think the dad is justifying spending the money to do some stuff that he wants to do and claiming it is family time for the kids. He wants to go to Europe. He wants season tickets to the theatre.

[boutons_deux]

Meanwhile, the 1% takes care of its own

First college to raise $1B? Stanford beats Harvard

For the eighth straight year, Stanford ranked first in the Council for Aid to Education's annual college fundraising survey, which shows that elite institutions continue to grab a disproportionate share of donor dollars.

In the 2012 fiscal year, roughly 3,500 U.S. (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States) colleges and universities raised $31 billion, 2.3 percent more than the previous year. The record was set in 2008 when schools took in $31.6 billion before fundraising dropped during the height of the financial crisis.

"We're climbing out of the doldrums," said survey director Ann Kaplan. "We haven't returned to the high point of 2008, but we're approaching it. I think you can say that about a lot of industries."

Topping the list was Stanford at $1.035 billion, followed by Harvard University (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Harvard+University) at $650 million, Yale University (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Yale+University) at $544 million, the University of Southern California (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/University+of+Southern+California) at $492 million and Columbia University (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Columbia+University) at $490 million.

The top 10 fundraising colleges collected $5.3 billion, or 17 percent, of the $31 billion, even though they represent only 0.3 percent of the 3,500 accredited, nonprofit schools included in the survey.

Stanford benefited from a surge in donations at the end of its multi-year Stanford Challenge fundraising campaign, which netted $6.2 billion. It also benefited from the successful launch of a $1 billion campaign for its medical school and hospitals.

The 10-campus University of California (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/University+of+California+System) system raised $1.56 billion, which doesn't include money collected by its individual campuses. UC Berkeley (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/University+of+California-Berkeley) was the leading fundraiser among all public universities, taking in $405 million.

Located in the heart of Silicon Valley (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Silicon+Valley), Stanford's alumni list includes the founders of major tech companies like Yahoo Inc. (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Yahoo%21+Inc.) who have given to the school in recent years.

Stanford raised 46 percent more in its 2012 fiscal year than the $709 million it collected in 2011 and surpassed its previous record of $911 million set in 2006. The $1.035 billion haul is equal to nearly $56,000 for each of its roughly 18,500 undergraduate and graduate students, though much of the money will be used for research and construction.

By contrast, San Jose State University (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/San+Jose+State+University), a public college 20 miles away, raised $14 million, which is equal to $450 for each of its 31,000 students.

Stanford received donations from nearly 79,000 donors, including $100 million of a $150 million gift from Silicon Valley investor Robert King (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Robert+King) and his wife Dorothy to establish the Stanford Institute for Innovation in Developing Economies.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0220/First-college-to-raise-1B-Stanford-beats-Harvard?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fcsm+%28Christian+Scie nce+Monitor+|+All+Stories%29

[RandomGuy]

That article doesn't put in compound interest for the 1000 saved. But it is a pretty good idea and different way of thinking.

Assuming a marginal tax rate of 30% on earned income for the savings, and a 5% saving rate, saving 1000 per year every year for 18 years will net, after taxes, $25092.67, assuming no inflation, i.e. cost of capital.

Assuming inflation/fees of 3% your net present value of all that money is .... $20,388

This, of course doe not factor in the avoided costs of student loans to the child, generally hovering about 7% or so. That would raise it a bit.

Parents saving money for college for their kids is stupid anyway. You are FAR better off saving it for yourself.

At the end of your life, you will get vastly expensive before you croak, medical care, nursing home, hospice, funeral.

The VAST majority of people have not saved enough, and their kids will carry that cost. Either they will pay for it directly, or they will pay for it in taxes for the entitlement programs you hate so vehemently.

If you want to save money to benefit your children, save for your retirement.

College is not the same clearly beneficial proposition it used to be, IMO. The costs have out paced the wage benefit for 20 years, and look to continue on that for a while. This strongly suggests that the net present value of a college education is falling.

Personally, I will leet my kids decide fro themselves and start VERY early on telling them about these options. Age 10 seems to be about the right age. My oldest hits that next month.

[DarrinS]

The VAST majority of people have not saved enough, and their kids will carry that cost. Either they will pay for it directly, or they will pay for it in taxes for the entitlement programs you hate so vehemently.


True.

And a lot of young, progressives are deciding not to have kids. It will only get worse.

[Phenomanul]

I'm trying to do both. The wife doesn't tend to trust babysitters, so we bring our kids to restaurants, hiking trails, movies, museums, etc etc. And being in the military, I'm pretty sure he'll get to see a decent amount of the world. Also, I'm not telling my kid about it... I'm going to make him think he has to do it on his own, and if he chooses a good career, and gets good grades, then MAYBE I'll tell him about it. :)

That's pretty much my strategy... if you tell your children they have funds, then it's only human nature for them to feel they don't have to work as hard in grade school (it becomes a crutch - "eh... I'll go to college anyways")... My parents didn't have to pay a single cent for my college tuition nor did I want for that financial burden to fall on their shoulders... why does society deem that to be the case, anyways? I figured that since college was required for my future, that then I should be the one that had to work for it...

[Agloco]

WTF?

Please tell me, what makes it harder to work and go to school than 30 years ago?

Kids tend to come out of the other end with a bit more debt these days. Usually that debt burden is disproportionate to what one can expect to make in terms of salary. While its better for scientists and engineer types, the issue is beginning to encroach on those disciplines as well.

[Wild Cobra]

Kids tend to come out of the other end with a bit more debt these days. Usually that debt burden is disproportionate to what one can expect to make in terms of salary. While its better for scientists and engineer types, the issue is beginning to encroach on those disciplines as well.
So shouldn't it be better to work, and borrow less?

[LnGrrrR]

So shouldn't it be better to work, and borrow less?

Except that with a crappy job market, competition is even greater, meaning the need for a degree is even more pronounced.

[Wild Cobra]

Except that with a crappy job market, competition is even greater, meaning the need for a degree is even more pronounced.
I see...

Too good for any minimum wage job.

That's a wrong attitude in my book. Any extra money helps.

[Blake]

I see...

Too good for any minimum wage job.

That's a wrong attitude in my book. Any extra money helps.

with some degree programs, it's nearly impossible to work a part time job and go to school full time.

[sickdsm]

There's lots of jobs one can do homework at. What one person deems impossible the next might think its the easy road.

Our grand fathers would probably be studying to become a doctor while working a full time night job as a hotel check in. Meanwhile he'd be doing homework and catching a snooze at night. On weekends he'd be fixing up the old house for his newlywed bride.

But today we say we can't get a job because we don't have a car.

[LnGrrrR]

I see...

Too good for any minimum wage job.

That's a wrong attitude in my book. Any extra money helps.

Sure, you can get a minimum wage job, but that's not going to appreciably help pay down the debt a lot of people are incurring. If you're working 40 hours a week somewhere at minimum wage, you're making 7.25 an hour X 40 hours = 290 dollars a week. That's roughly $1200 a month, before taxes. Let's say $100 bucks gets taken out in taxes, so he has $1100 spending money per month.

Let's say this person found a hole in the wall apartment for $400 a month. Now he's got $700 a month to go. Utilities are probably another $100, but say he uses a lot of candles so he only spend $50. Groceries are probably around $150 a month, assuming he never goes out to eat anywhere. Now he's down to $400. If he lives in the city he might be able to use urban transportation, but let's say he needs a car to get to work. That's probably another $150 a month, including gas. Now he's got $250 a month.

Leaving out any sort of other expense, he's got $250 spending money... per month. Unless you're going to a really cheap community college, that will cover... what, an HOUR of school?

[Blake]

There's lots of jobs one can do homework at. What one person deems impossible the next might think its the easy road.

Our grand fathers would probably be studying to become a doctor while working a full time night job as a hotel check in. Meanwhile he'd be doing homework and catching a snooze at night. On weekends he'd be fixing up the old house for his newlywed bride.

But today we say we can't get a job because we don't have a car.

Cool made up anecdotes. :tu

[LnGrrrR]

There's lots of jobs one can do homework at. What one person deems impossible the next might think its the easy road.

Our grand fathers would probably be studying to become a doctor while working a full time night job as a hotel check in. Meanwhile he'd be doing homework and catching a snooze at night. On weekends he'd be fixing up the old house for his newlywed bride.

But today we say we can't get a job because we don't have a car.

So he's sleeping on the job?

[DarrinS]

with some degree programs, it's nearly impossible to work a part time job and go to school full time.

Nearly impossible? If you're going to med school.

[MannyIsGod]

True.

And a lot of young, progressives are deciding not to have kids. It will only get worse.

Yes because the best idea is to continue with a pyramid scheme makeup and ignore the actual nature of limited resources on our planet. :tu

[Blake]

Nearly impossible? If you're going to med school.

Yup.

[Blake]

So he's sleeping on the job?

lol

[MannyIsGod]

Sure, you can get a minimum wage job, but that's not going to appreciably help pay down the debt a lot of people are incurring. If you're working 40 hours a week somewhere at minimum wage, you're making 7.25 an hour X 40 hours = 290 dollars a week. That's roughly $1200 a month, before taxes. Let's say $100 bucks gets taken out in taxes, so he has $1100 spending money per month.

Let's say this person found a hole in the wall apartment for $400 a month. Now he's got $700 a month to go. Utilities are probably another $100, but say he uses a lot of candles so he only spend $50. Groceries are probably around $150 a month, assuming he never goes out to eat anywhere. Now he's down to $400. If he lives in the city he might be able to use urban transportation, but let's say he needs a car to get to work. That's probably another $150 a month, including gas. Now he's got $250 a month.

Leaving out any sort of other expense, he's got $250 spending money... per month. Unless you're going to a really cheap community college, that will cover... what, an HOUR of school?

150 for a car per month? Yeah maybe just for gas and maintence. :lol I know you were making a point and making things cheaper but there's no point since your numbers are unrealistic (except rent) the point should be that there isn't ANY money leftover for college because there really isn't enough money to live off of to begin with.

[DarrinS]

Yes because the best idea is to continue with a pyramid scheme makeup and ignore the actual nature of limited resources on our planet. :tu

lol, Population Bomb drivel, a.k.a. shit that didn't happen

[LnGrrrR]

150 for a car per month? Yeah maybe just for gas and maintence. :lol I know you were making a point and making things cheaper but there's no point since your numbers are unrealistic (except rent) the point should be that there isn't ANY money leftover for college because there really isn't enough money to live off of to begin with.


Shhhhh let WC respond first. :nope

[MannyIsGod]

lol, Population Bomb drivel, a.k.a. shit that didn't happen

You think the earth has an unlimited carrying capacity? Of course you do because you never listen to those who are experts in their respective fields and instead just prefer to go along with your conformation bias on any particular subject. Darrin has kids, ergo anything that makes it seem like a good idea to have kids is what Darrin is going to believe. Not only is it not his job to help save to plan for their future, its now also their responsibility to provide for him and the rest of his shitty generation when the time comes.

You're very thoughtful, Darrin.

[MannyIsGod]

Shhhhh let WC respond first. :nope

You lost WC when you started using math.

[DarrinS]

You think the earth has an unlimited carrying capacity? Of course you do because you never listen to those who are experts in their respective fields and instead just prefer to go along with your conformation bias on any particular subject. Darrin has kids, ergo anything that makes it seem like a good idea to have kids is what Darrin is going to believe. Not only is it not his job to help save to plan for their future, its now also their responsibility to provide for him and the rest of his shitty generation when the time comes.

You're very thoughtful, Darrin.


Strange how greenies, like you, appreciate the concept of sustainabililty, but never apply the concept to human beings and entitlement spending. By NOT having kids, you are unwittingly screwing your own generation (and future generations).

[MannyIsGod]

Strange how greenies, like you, appreciate the concept of sustainabililty, but never apply the concept to human beings and entitlement spending. By NOT having kids, you are unwittingly screwing your own generation (and future generations).

Strange how this post is completely devoid of logic. Your generalizations assume there is only one way to pay for entitlement spending and or that all people who worry about sustainability have the same ideas about entitlements to begin with.

[DarrinS]

Strange how this post is completely devoid of logic. Your generalizations assume there is only one way to pay for entitlement spending and or that all people who worry about sustainability have the same ideas about entitlements to begin with.


I assume that it will have to be with money

[sickdsm]

So he's sleeping on the job?

Yes. Lots of small town hotel front desk people do things other than stare at the door all night.

My example is how previous generations just "made it happen".

Now we quit before even starting. I love how my example raised eyebrows about the doctor story but the part about not working because of the lack of a car wasn't of any concern.

They were both made up examples but i was thinking of my wife's grandpa. He was working 60 hr weeks at a factory two years when his new wife was expecting/gave birth. After/before work and on the weekends he built his house from scratch.

Now we demand some first time home buyers credit program.

[sickdsm]

Minimum wage is a supplemental income. High school, retired, night time job.

I may be conservative but not delusional. You cannot survive on minimum wage, regardless of what that is at. You raise min wage all wages need to be adjusted to separate the trash from the gems.

[Blake]

Yes. Lots of small town hotel front desk people do things other than stare at the door all night.

My example is how previous generations just "made it happen".

Now we quit before even starting. I love how my example raised eyebrows about the doctor story but the part about not working because of the lack of a car wasn't of any concern.

They were both made up examples but i was thinking of my wife's grandpa. He was working 60 hr weeks at a factory two years when his new wife was expecting/gave birth. After/before work and on the weekends he built his house from scratch.

Now we demand some first time home buyers credit program.

the lesson here being that students should move to small towns to go to college in order to work at a mom and pop motel.

[Drachen]

the lesson here being that students should move to small towns to go to college in order to work at a mom and pop motel.

You can work night shift at a diamond shamrock in town. You can work full time and go to school, this still does nothing to explain away the fact that college is getting exponentially more expensive even when compared to "everything else" that is getting more expensive. I don't care how much WC and DarrinS want to equate rising degree costs with general inflation it is not the same and no amount of elbow grease is going to change that. Do I think that people shouldn't try? No, but the fact of the matter is that working while going to school isn't the panacea that some of y'all think that it is.

Lngrrr for what it's worth, credits 1-6 at SAC are a flat rate of 480 not including fees and books. Still doesn't matter since you cheaped out on your figures other than the rent and food and there would be zero dollars left in your example except for maybe one six pack a month.

edited because no one needs my preachiness.

[DarrinS]

You can work night shift at a diamond shamrock in town. You can work full time and go to school, this still does nothing to explain away the fact that college is getting exponentially more expensive even when compared to "everything else" that is getting more expens live. I don't care how much WC and DarrinS want to equate rising degree costs with general inflation it is not the same and no amount of elbow grease is going to change that. Do I think that people shouldn't try? No, but the fact of the matter is that working while going to school isn't the panacea that some of y'all think that it is.



For me, working during college wasn't so much a panacea -- rather, it was the most practical option.

[Blake]

You can work night shift at a diamond shamrock in town. You can work full time and go to school, this still does nothing to explain away the fact that college is getting exponentially more expensive even when compared to "everything else" that is getting more expensive. I don't care how much WC and DarrinS want to equate rising degree costs with general inflation it is not the same and no amount of elbow grease is going to change that. Do I think that people shouldn't try? No, but the fact of the matter is that working while going to school isn't the panacea that some of y'all think that it is.

Lngrrr for what it's worth, credits 1-6 at SAC are a flat rate of 480 not including fees and books. Still doesn't matter since you cheaped out on your figures other than the rent and food and there would be zero dollars left in your example except for maybe one six pack a month.

edited because no one needs my preachiness.

I would tend to agree.

Especially if attending a private school

[Drachen]

understood, but pretending like working is going to pay for any amount of school is a fun thought experiment. Probably not much more than that though. FWIW, I agree that people should work to pay their living expenses while in school. However, I am beginning to think about getting a law degree and as I understand it I will have a hard time working while earning such a degree. I don't know, we shall see. I likely won't do it, but it is just an idea. I don't want another 4 years in school though.

[LnGrrrR]

Yes. Lots of small town hotel front desk people do things other than stare at the door all night.

My example is how previous generations just "made it happen".

Now we quit before even starting. I love how my example raised eyebrows about the doctor story but the part about not working because of the lack of a car wasn't of any concern.

They were both made up examples but i was thinking of my wife's grandpa. He was working 60 hr weeks at a factory two years when his new wife was expecting/gave birth. After/before work and on the weekends he built his house from scratch.

Now we demand some first time home buyers credit program.

So people in the greatest generation "made it happen" by sleeping on the job. Gotcha.

Where did they live while he was building the home from scratch?

[Blake]

Where did they live while he was building the home from scratch?

Probably in the horseless carriage his gramps built from scratch.

[LnGrrrR]

You can work night shift at a diamond shamrock in town. You can work full time and go to school, this still does nothing to explain away the fact that college is getting exponentially more expensive even when compared to "everything else" that is getting more expensive. I don't care how much WC and DarrinS want to equate rising degree costs with general inflation it is not the same and no amount of elbow grease is going to change that. Do I think that people shouldn't try? No, but the fact of the matter is that working while going to school isn't the panacea that some of y'all think that it is.

Lngrrr for what it's worth, credits 1-6 at SAC are a flat rate of 480 not including fees and books. Still doesn't matter since you cheaped out on your figures other than the rent and food and there would be zero dollars left in your example except for maybe one six pack a month.

edited because no one needs my preachiness.

Thanks for getting my overall point Drachen. :)

[LnGrrrR]

For me, working during college wasn't so much a panacea -- rather, it was the most practical option.

How much did you pay yearly when you went through college?

[Wild Cobra]

Shhhhh let WC respond first. :nope
Why?

You were way out of line with those tax numbers.

[LnGrrrR]

Why?

You were way out of line with those tax numbers.

What tax numbers? The 100 I subtracted from his monthly income?

[Wild Cobra]

What tax numbers? The 100 I subtracted from his monthly income?
Full time, the federal tax liability would be $39/month for a single individual. Besides, who's talking full time. That's crazy. Just some extra money. At about $10k income, there would be no federal tax liability.

[Drachen]

Ok, assuming no taxes at all, you are down to an 833 dollar starting point. LOL!

[DarrinS]

How much did you pay yearly when you went through college?

Probably about half of the current tution. But, my wages and cost of living were also about half as much. To give you an idea, minimum wage when I was a teenager was $3.35/hr.

[LnGrrrR]

Full time, the federal tax liability would be $39/month for a single individual. Besides, who's talking full time. That's crazy. Just some extra money. At about $10k income, there would be no federal tax liability.

Ok, so instead of having saved $250 a month, he's saved $310. Does that make a significant difference?

And if you want to make $10K a year, you're working 27 hours a week at minimum wage instead of 40. (7.25 * 27 = 195.75 * 52 weeks a year = $10,179.) And, of course, you're working every week.

And I guess this person is living with a friend, or mom or something?

[Wild Cobra]

Probably about half of the current tution. But, my wages and cost of living were also about half as much. To give you an idea, minimum wage when I was a teenager was $3.35/hr.
It was less than that when I started working.

What gets me is someone can make, requiring a smaller loan, by about $8 k annual working part time. People are going to whine "but I don't get all of it." So fucking what. It's less money you have to borrow, or more spending money to have. Then, when you graduate, an employer will choose someone who had the commitment to work while going to school over the one who didn't, when deciding between two equally qualified candidates.

[LnGrrrR]

It was less than that when I started working.

What gets me is someone can make, requiring a smaller loan, by about $8 k annual working part time. People are going to whine "but I don't get all of it." So fucking what. It's less money you have to borrow, or more spending money to have. Then, when you graduate, an employer will choose someone who had the commitment to work while going to school over the one who didn't, when deciding between two equally qualified candidates.

The point people are trying to make is that if you're on minimum wage, nearly ALL of that money is just going to the basics needed to survive. There's no "extra" to pay down student loans, which is likely why more and more college-age kids are living at home.

[Drachen]

Probably about half of the current tution. But, my wages and cost of living were also about half as much. To give you an idea, minimum wage when I was a teenager was $3.35/hr.

Pick your year.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_320.asp

[DarrinS]

The point people are trying to make is that if you're on minimum wage, nearly ALL of that money is just going to the basics needed to survive. There's no "extra" to pay down student loans, which is likely why more and more college-age kids are living at home.

Well, that is the point of working while in school -- to pay for survival-related expenses. You pay your student loans AFTER you graduate and get a better job. At least, that's what I did.

[DarrinS]

Pick your year.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_320.asp


Based on that data, I was right that my tution was about half the current rate.

[LnGrrrR]

Based on that data, I was right that my tution was about half the current rate.

That list only goes up to 2006 though, and considering that from 2001-2006 the average 4 year tuition (everything included) jumped from $13k to 18K, we can assume that the next 7 years made it jump to at least $22k, likely $24k per year.

Half of that would mean you went to college at the earliest 1997.

[Drachen]

That list only goes up to 2006 though, and considering that from 2001-2006 the average 4 year tuition (everything included) jumped from $13k to 18K, we can assume that the next 7 years made it jump to at least $22k, likely $24k per year.

Half of that would mean you went to college at the earliest 1997.

average cost of tuition for 2012-2013 is 22,261
http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/24/pf/college/public-college-tuition/index.html

[DarrinS]

That list only goes up to 2006 though, and considering that from 2001-2006 the average 4 year tuition (everything included) jumped from $13k to 18K, we can assume that the next 7 years made it jump to at least $22k, likely $24k per year.

Half of that would mean you went to college at the earliest 1997.


It's actually a bit more than double what I paid. Current wages are a bit more than double what I made back then too.

[DarrinS]

Best course of action is to get college cred in HS or take CLEP tests. Take a year at a community college for basic BS classes. Take final year or two at university.

[DarrinS]

Because if you are taking, say, micro economics or a language at that price, you definitely aren't getting your money's worth.

[LnGrrrR]

Best course of action is to get college cred in HS or take CLEP tests. Take a year at a community college for basic BS classes. Take final year or two at university.

For what it's worth, that's my plan.

[DarrinS]

For what it's worth, that's my plan.

I really wish I had tried this.

http://clep.collegeboard.org/

[MannyIsGod]

I assume that it will have to be with money

No, what you assume is that it will be done with your children's money. Somehow having less children is the crux of your argument against entitlements being paid for because you expect them to pay for it and not yourself.

[LnGrrrR]

I really wish I had tried this.

http://clep.collegeboard.org/

Yeah, they are free for military if you pass. I've done a lot of my electives this way.

[Drachen]

Yeah, they are free for military if you pass. I've done a lot of my electives this way.


Language is the holy grail of those tests. One test, ~100 bucks, 12 credits.

[Drachen]

ap tests are even better. I got 15 credits of german from an AP test I took in High School. I began college with 21 total credits and was only 3 classes away from a german minor. :lol

[leemajors]

They didn't offer any AP classes at good ol VHS when i graduated in 1995. I was pretty pissed when i discovered people had easy credits that were not available to me. Lol "GT" classes.

[ploto]

They didn't offer any AP classes at good ol VHS when i graduated in 1995. I was pretty pissed when i discovered people had easy credits that were not available to me. Lol "GT" classes.

You actually do not have to take an AP class to take the AP test in that subject.

[ploto]

Best course of action is to get college cred in HS or take CLEP tests. Take a year at a community college for basic BS classes. Take final year or two at university.
Universities usually limit the number of hours you can acquire this way. For most, I think that 30 is the max total you can get by testing (AP or CLEP).

[Jacob1983]

I definitely would have done it the way of taking college classes in high school, then doing 2 years at a community college and finishing the last two years at a university. That would have saved me a lot of money and time. I was a fuckin' idiot and am now paying the price for my stupidity and ignorance. Lesson learned.

[Wild Cobra]

The point people are trying to make is that if you're on minimum wage, nearly ALL of that money is just going to the basics needed to survive. There's no "extra" to pay down student loans, which is likely why more and more college-age kids are living at home.
No Shit Sherlock. What do you have if you don't work?

[leemajors]

You actually do not have to take an AP class to take the AP test in that subject.

There were literally no resources available in Victoria at the time for me to find out about taking them.

[LnGrrrR]

Universities usually limit the number of hours you can acquire this way. For most, I think that 30 is the max total you can get by testing (AP or CLEP).

Yup. I'm thinking about going to SLU, and they won't take my English comp CLEP.

[LnGrrrR]

No Shit Sherlock. What do you have if you don't work?

Ok Sherlock, how does someone afford college on minimum wage, without taking a ton of loans? Oh that's right, they can't.

[Wild Cobra]

Ok Sherlock, how does someone afford college on minimum wage, without taking a ton of loans? Oh that's right, they can't.
I never said that. If you also work, you don't have to borrow as much.

Less debt... Get it or not?

Jesus.

Why do you people see what you want instead of what I type?

[LnGrrrR]

I never said that. If you also work, you don't have to borrow as much.

Less debt... Get it or not?

Jesus.

Why do you people see what you want instead of what I type?

Ok, reread the backscroll and saw that I was the one who misread it. My bad WC. I agree with you on the idea that kids should work a side job if they can do so without screwing up their grades.

[DarrinS]

Yup. I'm thinking about going to SLU, and they won't take my English comp CLEP.

Because you had too many Clep credits? Or the English dept is a bunch of snobs?

[spursncowboys]

How much did you pay yearly when you went through college?

Do you think the cost for college is a direct reflection on the fact they know there are guaranteed college loans which kids will get?

[LnGrrrR]

Because you had too many Clep credits? Or the English dept is a bunch of snobs?

The latter. If it was the former, I'd rather take an elective than the English class. :D

[LnGrrrR]

Do you think the cost for college is a direct reflection on the fact they know there are guaranteed college loans which kids will get?

Oh, I'm sure that plays a part. That said, I'm glad there are guaranteed college loans available, assuming that they're only handing them out to students who are likely to get a job afterwards that can pay them off. (Ie stem, lawyer, doctor, etc etc)

[spursncowboys]

Oh, I'm sure that plays a part. That said, I'm glad there are guaranteed college loans available, assuming that they're only handing them out to students who are likely to get a job afterwards that can pay them off. (Ie stem, lawyer, doctor, etc etc)

Yeah I have to agree but I'm pretty sure they are blanket loans for college. Regardless of degree. One great way to pay off other debts is to get a low apr college loan to consolidate your debt to one. Parents with kids in college should take advantage of that.

[spursncowboys]

The latter. If it was the former, I'd rather take an elective than the English class. :D

St. Mary's is really pro military. They pretty much would use all your military training as electives. And they transfer just about everything for you.

[spursncowboys]

Incarnate Word is pretty good too for military. Both have great selection of web courses.

[LnGrrrR]

I try to go to actual classes whenever possible, as I feel I don't get as much learning from online courses. Online courses feel like, "Hey, go figure this stuff out yourself, then we'll test you on it."

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I try to go to actual classes whenever possible, as I feel I don't get as much learning from online courses. Online courses feel like, "Hey, go figure this stuff out yourself, then we'll test you on it."

Depending on what you're studying, LSU has good online classes that aren't bad price wise ($500 or so for a 3 credit class) and they're transferable to pretty much any other university. I'm using LSU for the 6 accounting credits I'll need after I graduate to be CPA eligible.

[sickdsm]

Apartment. Shocking.

[sickdsm]

the lesson here being that students should move to small towns to go to college in order to work at a mom and pop motel.

The lesson here is to think for yourself. Lol at inferring that there is less opportunity in a large town.

Just a few weeks ago there was a thread talking about South Dakota School of Mines and Technology and how their graduates were earning more than Harvard grads at a fourth of the cost. There's opportunity everywhere but it seems all anyone does is complain about the bad in everything.

[symple19]

Learning to manage finances properly before venturing off on your own is of particular importance. My children already have their own accounts with the Bank of Dad. I absolutely refuse to leave them clueless to the game as the loan offers begin to roll in later on.

Great idea, and one area where I was terrible until my early 20's. My parents just gave me money all the time so I never really understood the importance of saving until I had been on my own for awhile. Now, I'm a bit extreme in the saving department, but I suppose it's better than the alternative

[Blake]

The lesson here is to think for yourself. Lol at inferring that there is less opportunity in a large town.

Great, then name some city jobs that allow you to study on the job.

[LnGrrrR]

Depending on what you're studying, LSU has good online classes that aren't bad price wise ($500 or so for a 3 credit class) and they're transferable to pretty much any other university. I'm using LSU for the 6 accounting credits I'll need after I graduate to be CPA eligible.

What made you choose LSU? Are they known for good accounting courses?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What made you choose LSU? Are they known for good accounting courses?
Their courses are respected by all 50 states as upper division accounting credit for one.

[sickdsm]

Great, then name some city jobs that allow you to study on the job.

Get off your arse and find one for yourself lazy butt.

[Blake]

Get off your arse and find one for yourself lazy butt.

Neh. I'll just go ahead and assume you're talking out of yours.

[Agloco]

Our grand fathers would probably be studying to become a doctor while working a full time night job as a hotel check in. Meanwhile he'd be doing homework and catching a snooze at night. On weekends he'd be fixing up the old house for his newlywed bride.

And if they were studying for that degree in todays world, they'd still have six figure debt at graduation.

[Agloco]

So shouldn't it be better to work, and borrow less?

I think that's selbstverstandlish. The original point, though, was that its not possible to work ones way through school today while expecting the same financial benefit as those who did it 30 years ago. There's definitely a diminished return there.

[Agloco]

Data?

Sorry Darrin, I didn't see this earlier. I'm obviously not talking about the physical act of working, although the job market is quite bad. As I responded to WC, there are diminishing returns with work these days. Exiting a four year program with 10k in debt as you did is no longer a realistic goal IMO.

If you insist on a link, I can muster up a few but I believe that the fact in question is what prompted this thread in the first place.

[2centsworth]

I paid my own way using the 2+2 program at SAC. For those who don't know, you spend the first two years at SAC and the last 2 at just about any public univeristy. I chose SWT for their financial planning program and location, which allowed me to commute.


Tutition at SAC is about $1200/sem for 15hrs and to my surprise SWT, now Texas State, has sky rocketed from $1500 my last semester to $4500 this spring. I paid my way working room service on weekends. At $4500/semester there would have been no way for me because you have to include gas, car, insurance, etc.... I simply didn't make enough.

Today I easily graduate with $10k in student loans.

[Blake]

Unless you are majoring in something super special or you have money to burn, there is no good reason to go to a private school.

I smh when I hear that someone went to a private school to become a school teacher.

[Blake]

+1 that the SAC 2+2 program is the best, most economical way to get a bachelors.

[DarrinS]

I paid my own way using the 2+2 program at SAC. For those who don't know, you spend the first two years at SAC and the last 2 at just about any public univeristy. I chose SWT for their financial planning program and location, which allowed me to commute.


Tutition at SAC is about $1200/sem for 15hrs and to my surprise SWT, now Texas State, has sky rocketed from $1500 my last semester to $4500 this spring. I paid my way working room service on weekends. At $4500/semester there would have been no way for me because you have to include gas, car, insurance, etc.... I simply didn't make enough.

Today I easily graduate with $10k in student loans.



Having $10k in student loan debt is not bad at all. I think that's about what I had when I graduated in 1994.

[boutons_deux]

Student Loan Bubble So Big It’s Trumping Credit Cards as a Spending Driver


http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Screen-shot-2013-03-04-at-5.25.49-AM.png
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Screen-shot-2013-03-04-at-5.37.38-AM.png
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/STUDENT-LOANS-VS-CREDIT-CARDS_0.jpghttp://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/03/student-loan-bubble-so-big-its-trumping-credit-cards-as-a-spending-driver.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capi talism%29

[Agloco]

I paid my own way using the 2+2 program at SAC. For those who don't know, you spend the first two years at SAC and the last 2 at just about any public univeristy. I chose SWT for their financial planning program and location, which allowed me to commute.


Tutition at SAC is about $1200/sem for 15hrs and to my surprise SWT, now Texas State, has sky rocketed from $1500 my last semester to $4500 this spring. I paid my way working room service on weekends. At $4500/semester there would have been no way for me because you have to include gas, car, insurance, etc.... I simply didn't make enough.

Today I easily graduate with $10k in student loans.

:tu

I believe that 2+2 programs are the way to go for most non-specialized degrees. If my daughters could graduate with just 10k in debt apiece, I'd be quite satisfied.

[sickdsm]

And if they were studying for that degree in todays world, they'd still have six figure debt at graduation.

So? My wifes friend graduates from Creighton in a few months as a dentist. Shes interviewing at a few different places. Sounds like shes looking at $140-$200k per year.

FWIW she worked through her 4 yr and a year after, then didnt at med school. $500 k in debt. Sounds to me like thats not a bad investment there.

[LnGrrrR]

So? My wifes friend graduates from Creighton in a few months as a dentist. Shes interviewing at a few different places. Sounds like shes looking at $140-$200k per year.

FWIW she worked through her 4 yr and a year after, then didnt at med school. $500 k in debt. Sounds to me like thats not a bad investment there.

Holy crap, half a million in debt? I hope that job is in high demand :lol

[BUMP]

I'm not asking for your sympathy, Darrin. I'm pointing out the facts. It is a fact that people in college level jobs make less today and its a fact that tuition has increased at an astronomical rate in the past decade +. I would never ask for your sympathy or even understanding seeing as you're one of the most myopic people I've ever encountered in my life and seeing as I've managed to put myself through school in a much harder time than you did. I do feel a bit sorry for your kids, though. They didn't ask to have such a bad father.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/673859_o.gif

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

There's lots of jobs one can do homework at. What one person deems impossible the next might think its the easy road.

Our grand fathers would probably be studying to become a doctor while working a full time night job as a hotel check in. Meanwhile he'd be doing homework and catching a snooze at night. On weekends he'd be fixing up the old house for his newlywed bride.

But today we say we can't get a job because we don't have a car.


Cool made up anecdotes. :tu


So he's sleeping on the job?

:lmao

[Agloco]

So? My wifes friend graduates from Creighton in a few months as a dentist. Shes interviewing at a few different places. Sounds like shes looking at $140-$200k per year.

FWIW she worked through her 4 yr and a year after, then didnt at med school. $500 k in debt. Sounds to me like thats not a bad investment there.

As has been stated in this thread numerous times, and as you just rehashed: Working one's way through school without accumulating significant deb is no longer a realistic goal. There are, of course, some exceptions but this trend is by far and away the new rule.

[sickdsm]

Being able to pay off all student loan debt in five or so years is significant debt to you?


:rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

500K in debt is not significant? LOL!

[sickdsm]

You guys act like your getting minimum wage as a janitor.

Starting salaries of $140k-$200k. With bennies. She starts her new job in about a month i believe. And yes. It is in that range.

Half a mill doesnt sound so bad when her starting salary is that.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't care what your prospective salary is but if you don't think 500K debt is significant you're an absolute moron.

[sickdsm]

Id feel a lot more comfortable in her shoes tham someone who owed $75k and was looking at a $30k job.

[MannyIsGod]

Thats nice. I'd feel a lot more comfortable not having 500k in debt than having 500k in debt.

[sickdsm]

Nice way to avoid the comparison.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh you mean the comparison you brought up out of the blue to avoid your idiotic statement that 500k in debt was insignificant? LOL!!!!

Yeah, I guess I did avoid the complete red herring you dropped earlier in the thread. Oh well?

[Winehole23]

if you graduate from college into a job with a salary in the 90-95th percentile range for households, you might not be fucked.

good point, cooler girl.

[Wild Cobra]

500K in debt is not significant? LOL!
Who is stupid enough to go $500k in debt with an uncertain means of paying it off?

[RandomGuy]

I don't care what your prospective salary is but if you don't think 500K debt is significant you're an absolute moron.

Significant in an absolute sense, yes, but such debt is easily carried at 120k per year, especially if her husband works at all.

It would take much longer than 5 years to pay it off however.

[boutons_deux]

$500K for a house would put you into the Dominion or other 1%er enclave

median house price in SA is under $80K

[boutons_deux]

College Execs have Private Jets? New Report Finds Public University Presidents Live Large


A new report (http://chronicle.com/article/Executive-Compensation-at/139093#id=table) released by The Chronicle of Higher Education on Monday revealed that public university presidents in the U.S. are doing quite well financially.

The report lists public university presidents’ compensation for the 2012 fiscal year. Graham Spanier, former president of Penn State University, who was forced out after his handling of the Jerry Sandusky child abuse tragedy, topped the list by bringing in $2.9 million. This includes a base pay of nearly $351,000, a deferred pay of $1.2 million and a severance package of $1.2 million.

Jack Stripling, the Chronicle reporter who worked on the survey, told The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/13/education/university-presidents-are-prospering-study-finds.html?_r=0): “The fact that Graham Spanier turns out to be the highest paid president in the country says something about the nature of compensation packages for people who leave under a cloud. … Severance agreements are often very lucrative.”

Following Spanier, Jay Gogue of Auburn University had a compensation package of $2.5 million, and E. Gordon Gee of Ohio State University $1.9 million. Gee received the highest base pay of all the public university presidents at $830,439.The New York Times reported that Gee enjoys a “lavish lifestyle,” which includes “a rent-free mansion with an elevator, a pool and a tennis court and flights on private jets.”

Stripling told the Times that public university presidents have seen much growth in their compensation packages over the years. The $600,000 to $700,000 compensation package range saw the highest growth, as it included 28 presidents in 2012 — up from 13 in 2011.

An increase in deferred compensation also accounts for some of the compensation package growth, as Gogue’s compensation, for instance, went from $720,000 to $2.5 million in one year after completing a five-year contract.

Overall, the median compensation package in 2012 was $441,392 — up 4.7 percent from 2011’s $421,395. The median base salary in 2012 was $373,800 — up 2 percent from 2011’s $366,519.

http://www.alternet.org/education/college-execs-have-private-jets-new-report-finds-public-university-presidents-live-large?akid=10432.187590.tnYR7V&rd=1&src=newsletter840231&t=11