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View Full Version : How much are you getting back/or paying in taxes this year?



DeadlyDynasty
02-14-2013, 05:40 PM
?

DarrinS
02-14-2013, 05:57 PM
I don't even want to think about it.

I.R.S.
02-14-2013, 06:01 PM
Nice thread.

resistanze
02-14-2013, 06:24 PM
I should be getting back 4-5K :hungry:

Barack Obama
02-14-2013, 06:29 PM
I should be getting back 4-5K :hungry:

I got your back.

Blake
02-14-2013, 06:29 PM
I wish I had the discipline to be right at $0 come tax time, but I don't.

I'll get back a few grand.

Mitt Romney
02-14-2013, 06:32 PM
I see we got a couple of "takers" up in here.

mavs>spurs
02-14-2013, 06:52 PM
only worked a couple months after graduating in august so not that much, maybe 700 bucks

CubanSucks
02-14-2013, 07:47 PM
I'm gonna owe money breh

Drachen
02-14-2013, 08:25 PM
?

My investment account doesn't formulate my tax paperwork until 2-15 so I don't know.

Capt Bringdown
02-14-2013, 11:33 PM
Overseas exemption up to 90K/year US. I pay local taxes, but I don't know the rate as my employer takes care of that and I get the net sum :)

blkroadrunners
02-15-2013, 01:16 AM
Refund of $519

Mark919
02-15-2013, 02:58 AM
Love my kids.$3288

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 05:00 AM
I should be getting back 4-5K :hungry:
How much of that is from tax credits that come out of my pocket and others?

Or do you purposely give the government an interest free loan by letting then take an extra $300 + monthly out of your pay?

I have my deductions set to pay each year, but I screwed up this time. They owe me $5.00.

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 05:02 AM
I wish I had the discipline to be right at $0 come tax time, but I don't.

I'll get back a few grand.
You like over paying too, into an interest free savings account, or is that "other people's money" from tax credits?

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 05:03 AM
Love my kids.$3288
You must love income redistribution from people like me.

You're welcome.

CosmicCowboy
02-15-2013, 08:20 AM
You must love income redistribution from people like me.

You're welcome.

Bitch just doesn't want to pay his fair share.

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 08:28 AM
Bitch just doesn't want to pay his fair share.
Well, in honesty, I can't blame people who take advantage of what they are allowed. I want to see the system changed though, and let people know the money doesn't come out of thin air.

CosmicCowboy
02-15-2013, 08:30 AM
Well, in honesty, I can't blame people who take advantage of what they are allowed. I want to see the system changed though, and let people know the money doesn't come out of thin air.

This country is too far gone. The takers are breeding faster than the producers.

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 08:33 AM
This country is too far gone. The takers are breeding faster than the producers.
Agreed.

The cart is almost too heavy to pull.

leemajors
02-15-2013, 08:40 AM
How much of that is from tax credits that come out of my pocket and others?

Or do you purposely give the government an interest free loan by letting then take an extra $300 + monthly out of your pay?

I have my deductions set to pay each year, but I screwed up this time. They owe me $5.00.

He is Canadian.

I. Hustle
02-15-2013, 08:44 AM
LOL at the haters. I'm not getting anything but you guys are really sore. LOL

Sportcamper
02-15-2013, 08:48 AM
Love my kids.$3288

Good for you! Responsible parents deserve credit.

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 08:49 AM
Good for you! Responsible parents deserve credit.
Tax break.

Yes.

Tax credit..

No...

Sportcamper
02-15-2013, 09:00 AM
Get upset over congress voting themselves raises in recessions, raiding the tax payer’s social security accounts, non funded government pensions, out of control government spending, free money to countries who hate us.

A 3000 dollar deduction for being a responsible parent is the least of our tax code problems…

resistanze
02-15-2013, 09:02 AM
How much of that is from tax credits that come out of my pocket and others?

Or do you purposely give the government an interest free loan by letting then take an extra $300 + monthly out of your pay?

I have my deductions set to pay each year, but I screwed up this time. They owe me $5.00.

He is Canadian.
No, no I'm actually gaming the American welfare system, I gotta take care of mah keeeeds :hungry:.

Thanks WC!

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 09:10 AM
Get upset over congress voting themselves raises in recessions, raiding the tax payer’s social security accounts, non funded government pensions, out of control government spending, free money to countries who hate us.

A 3000 dollar deduction for being a responsible parent is the least of our tax code problems…
I don't mind the deductions. It's the tax credits that I am against.

Do you understand the difference?

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-15-2013, 09:11 AM
Get upset over congress voting themselves raises in recessions, raiding the tax payer’s social security accounts, non funded government pensions, out of control government spending, free money to countries who hate us.

A 3000 dollar deduction for being a responsible parent is the least of our tax code problems…
cosigned sons

benefactor
02-15-2013, 10:25 AM
$1300

Spur|n|Austin
02-15-2013, 10:38 AM
$3775.00 - Biggest refund to date; mainly because of school credits for my final year of college.

Question: How does one get as much back as yall are stating? Having kids? Owning a home?

vy65
02-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Around 5k.

Look at me now WC .....

spursfan09
02-15-2013, 10:42 AM
Income tax refunds are what they are. A redristribution of wealth. It's not going to turn anyone into millionaires. If peolple get 3-5k back who cares? With kids, thats as good as gone in a few weeks.

Doug Whiner
02-15-2013, 11:11 AM
This country is too far gone. The takers are breeding faster than the producers.

Are you and I related?

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-15-2013, 11:12 AM
:lmao conservatives whining about the tax breaks middle class people get

Drachen
02-15-2013, 11:27 AM
$3775.00 - Biggest refund to date; mainly because of school credits for my final year of college.

Question: How does one get as much back as yall are stating? Having kids? Owning a home?

for me? the big ones are kids, home, education, and charitable donations in that order (the first and second may be switched).

I am getting around 2300.

mrsmaalox
02-15-2013, 11:53 AM
Writing a check for at least 8k. But it's okay, there was a time my kids were real young and the income was less, we always got a great return. Kids are older, income is waaay up, it's my turn to pay. Obviously once some people can no longer take advantage of the breaks, they feel very persecuted and have to point out the "free rides" the "takers" get lol.

GoodOdor
02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
Got back $2300.

CuckingFunt
02-15-2013, 12:30 PM
Getting? Got it already. About $1,000. Got it a few days ago and turned around and spent it all on bills the same day. [Insert sad trombone here.]

Spur|n|Austin
02-15-2013, 12:32 PM
Getting? Got it already. About $1,000. Got it a few days ago and turned around and spent it all on bills the same day. [Insert sad trombone here.]

It's ok, I'm doing the exact same. I should be getting mine Monday and it will 100% pay off all debt and household bills. It's actually a good feeling..

Moocher
02-15-2013, 12:40 PM
I haven't filed a tax return in years.

resistanze
02-15-2013, 01:17 PM
Around 5k.

Look at me now WC .....

How do you feel taking money out of WC's pocket, you parasite?

z0sa
02-15-2013, 01:29 PM
Very little. Which is good since I actually owed thousands more theyll never find out about.

CosmicCowboy
02-15-2013, 01:47 PM
Had to write a $240,000. check in '96 when I sold my interest in a business I started.

ploto
02-15-2013, 02:26 PM
I make this statement every year -- unless you are getting money back due to credits (such as EIC), you should not be celebrating paying in too much all year and letting the government have your money interest free during the year while you pay in too much.

lebomb
02-15-2013, 02:31 PM
I make this statement every year -- unless you are getting money back due to credits (such as EIC), you should not be celebrating paying in too much all year and letting the government have your money interest free during the year while you pay in too much.

Troof ^

Th'Pusher
02-15-2013, 02:43 PM
I make this statement every year -- unless you are getting money back due to credits (such as EIC), you should not be celebrating paying in too much all year and letting the government have your money interest free during the year while you pay in too much.
I have yet to do my taxes yet. I am sure ill have to pay $3-$4k. Still this whole idea of giving the government a loan interest free is a bit bogus. Even in a high yield account you're likely getting less than 1% interest. Unless you're grossly over-paying it's really not that big of a deal.

vy65
02-15-2013, 02:56 PM
How do you feel taking money out of WC's pocket, you parasite?

Pretty fucking good tbh

GoodOdor
02-15-2013, 03:19 PM
Lol at everyone who cries about "giving the government an interest free loan:cry". Let's be honest here, it's not like you would
have managed to invest those 2k somewhere and get an amazing return.....for most people, this is money that they would have probably
spent otherwise.

Drachen
02-15-2013, 03:28 PM
Lol at everyone who cries about "giving the government an interest free loan:cry". Let's be honest here, it's not like you would
have managed to invest those 2k somewhere and get an amazing return.....for most people, this is money that they would have probably
spent otherwise.

However if you have credit card debt, then you are not giving an interest free loan to the government, you are paying capital one, or citibank, etc 10 percent for the privilege of loaning money to the government.

Ellsworth
02-15-2013, 04:36 PM
I haven't filed a tax return in years.

I haven't had a job in four years!!!! :rollin

cantthinkofanything
02-15-2013, 04:41 PM
However if you have credit card debt, then you are not giving an interest free loan to the government, you are paying capital one, or citibank, etc 10 percent for the privilege of loaning money to the government.

sure...but most people with credit card debt wouldn't be inclined to use that money to pay down their balance. GO's right...that money would have been wasted on something else.

Dark Gable
02-15-2013, 04:59 PM
I'll have to pay a few G's.

resistanze
02-15-2013, 05:00 PM
I'll be buying Air Jordans with my handout, tbh

U mad?

Trill Clinton
02-15-2013, 05:55 PM
I'll be buying Air Jordans with my handout, tbh

U mad?
lolsmh

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 07:47 PM
:lmao conservatives whining about the tax breaks middle class people get
Bullshit.

I'm not complaining about any tax break.

Do you know the difference between a deduction and a tax credit?

A tax credit is applied to the amount you paid in taxes. A deduction reduced your taxable income. A tax credit does not reduce your taxable income.

Tax credits allow people who had no money taken out of they paycheck, to get "other people's money," or get more money back than they paid in.

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 07:49 PM
Pretty fucking good tbh
Leech...

kamikazi_player
02-15-2013, 08:31 PM
I thought this thread is about how much you're getting back/paying for taxes this year, not whine and bitch about tax credits like a retarded republican.

Anyways I'm getting 1100, but I'm going to actually save it.

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-15-2013, 08:37 PM
Tax credits allow people who had no money taken out of they paycheck, to get "other people's money," or get more money back than they paid in.

There are refundable and non-refundable tax credits. Child and dependent care tax credits (the ones you're bitching about in this thread before you try to say you were complaining about something else) are non-refundable tax credits, so they can't be taken in excess of taxes due/amount withheld.

Now I guess everyone in this thread knows Glenn Beck teaches his viewers that child tax credits enable to people to get back more than they paid in.

Sportcamper
02-15-2013, 08:40 PM
I make this statement every year -- unless you are getting money back due to credits (such as EIC), you should not be celebrating paying in too much all year and letting the government have your money interest free during the year while you pay in too much.

I agree with you…However in states like CA where they tax the heck out of you it is better to claim less deductions on the W2 form so you don’t have to write a check the CA Franchise Tax board…

I will give the Feds & State credit…This year they both applied my refund to my checking account in only four days…

resistanze
02-15-2013, 08:48 PM
There are refundable and non-refundable tax credits. Child and dependent care tax credits (the ones you're bitching about in this thread before you try to say you were complaining about something else) are non-refundable tax credits, so they can't be taken in excess of taxes due/amount withheld.

Now I guess everyone in this thread knows Glenn Beck teaches his viewers that child tax credits enable to people to get back more than they paid in.
You're trying to educate a man who asked how much a Canadian is taking out of his American pocket with his Canadian tax return. Good luck.

Sportcamper
02-15-2013, 08:48 PM
There are refundable and non-refundable tax credits. Child and dependent care tax credits (the ones you're bitching about in this thread before you try to say you were complaining about something else) are non-refundable tax credits, so they can't be taken in excess of taxes due/amount withheld

Responsible parents are the salt of the earth…If I were King…I would double the dependent deduction/credit like the Feds did in 2009…I would also implement a 10k tax credit for the purchase of a new American car and a 5k tax credit for the purchase of a new Harley Davidson motorcycle…

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-15-2013, 08:50 PM
You're trying to educate a man who asked how much a Canadian is taking out of his American pocket with his Canadian tax return. Good luck.

:lmao:lmao

It's a bad habit. I have a hard time passing up the opportunity to make fun of a tea bagger for some really ignorant and flat out false comment about how America's tax code works.

resistanze
02-15-2013, 08:52 PM
:lmao:lmao

It's a bad habit. I have a hard time passing up the opportunity to make fun of a tea bagger for some really ignorant and flat out false comment about how America's tax code works.
:lol It's funny because the next post is going to be how you misconstrued what he said and then it's basically a game of tag.

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-15-2013, 08:54 PM
:lol It's funny because the next post is going to be how you misconstrued what he said and then it's basically a game of tag.

I tried to plan ahead for that with the (don't pretend to say you were whining about something else) part. When you take away the first way he planned on arguing semantics, it's always funny seeing how desparate his plan B is.

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-15-2013, 08:54 PM
double post

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 10:24 PM
There are refundable and non-refundable tax credits. Child and dependent care tax credits (the ones you're bitching about in this thread before you try to say you were complaining about something else) are non-refundable tax credits, so they can't be taken in excess of taxes due/amount withheld.

Now I guess everyone in this thread knows Glenn Beck teaches his viewers that child tax credits enable to people to get back more than they paid in.
WTF are you talking about? Now I agree not all called "credits" add to your effective tax paid.

From the 1040A instructions:


Line 39
Additional Child Tax Credit
What Is the Additional Child Tax Credit?
This credit is for certain people who have at least one qualifying
child as defined in the instructions for line 6c. The additional
child tax credit may give you a refund even if you do not
owe any tax.

And we all know about earned income credit.

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 10:26 PM
Earned income credit can be as much as $3,891 for 2012. Fucking outrageous.

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-15-2013, 11:06 PM
:lol the earned income credit is for dirt poor people so they don't lose money by working instead of being on welfare. It gives people incentive to work so people like you who complain about "takers!" should be a fan.

If you think being dirt poor and relying on the EITC is such an easy teet sucking lifestyle, you're welcome to try it.

Wild Cobra
02-15-2013, 11:57 PM
:lol the earned income credit is for dirt poor people so they don't lose money by working instead of being on welfare. It gives people incentive to work so people like you who complain about "takers!" should be a fan.

If you think being dirt poor and relying on the EITC is such an easy teet sucking lifestyle, you're welcome to try it.
First of all, EIC shouldn't exist.

That $3891 is for someone making as much as $22,300 adjusted gross. Now I agree it is difficult to have a decent life on that type of money, it just isn't right. The program doesn't distinguish by need or merit, but by the tax form. People who live in section 8 housing vs. someone paying the full rent out of their own pocket gets treated equally for example. Section 8 is already subsidizing the family with up to $26,400 annually.

As for thinking "such an easy teet sucking lifestyle..." Who's fault is it they they have children and don't make enough money?

Now before you go on with those who have lost a good job, keep in mind, I have always advocated out welfare system as being an insurance type measure. Not a lifestyle, except for the disabled and elderly.

Can't raise a family on your wages? Don't have kids!

GoodOdor
02-16-2013, 01:15 AM
First of all, EIC shouldn't exist.

That $3891 is for someone making as much as $22,300 adjusted gross. Now I agree it is difficult to have a decent life on that type of money, it just isn't right. The program doesn't distinguish by need or merit, but by the tax form. People who live in section 8 housing vs. someone paying the full rent out of their own pocket gets treated equally for example. Section 8 is already subsidizing the family with up to $26,400 annually.

As for thinking "such an easy teet sucking lifestyle..." Who's fault is it they they have children and don't make enough money?

Now before you go on with those who have lost a good job, keep in mind, I have always advocated out welfare system as being an insurance type measure. Not a lifestyle, except for the disabled and elderly.

Can't raise a family on your wages? Don't have kids!


Your mother was dependent on welfare, remember? she definitely shouldn't have had you...

spursncowboys
02-16-2013, 01:30 AM
Well, in honesty, I can't blame people who take advantage of what they are allowed. I want to see the system changed though, and let people know the money doesn't come out of thin air.

It kind of does

Wild Cobra
02-16-2013, 03:27 AM
Your mother was dependent on welfare, remember? she definitely shouldn't have had you...
Liar.

She was never "dependent" on it. She took food stamps for a few months when my parents got divorced, then found employment. Used the safety net as intended.

End of story.

Wild Cobra
02-16-2013, 03:28 AM
It kind of does
LOL...

OK, in some ways it does.

Trainwreck2100
02-16-2013, 09:54 AM
Last year (2011) capital one filed what amounts a fraudulent 1099 on me for 2 gs. They did it December 31 and I wasn't the only one. So feel free to be mad them conservatives

Spur|n|Austin
02-18-2013, 04:17 PM
Has anyone here ever been audited?

ShinerBlack
02-18-2013, 04:23 PM
Unfortunately I have. Ex-Wife fucked me a couple years ago so IRS took a $5k bite out of my ass. :bang

Soul_Patch
02-19-2013, 03:52 PM
We owe about 1K this year.

bus driver
02-19-2013, 03:58 PM
i find out saturday. damn obama took about 200 dollars from my check :ihit

=RTM=
02-19-2013, 04:30 PM
Taxes? :lmao

DMC
02-19-2013, 08:50 PM
275 million.

DMC
02-19-2013, 08:51 PM
Has anyone here ever been audited?

Audit this dick, bitch.

Spur|n|Austin
02-19-2013, 11:02 PM
Audit this dick, bitch.

:lol that's a good one

275 million huh? Your childish response and answer leads me to believe you most likely make a low hourly rate. Not that there's anything wrong with that though, I'll always need someone to do the shit work I'm over-qualified, and too smart to do. My family will also need your wife or boyfriend or whomever, to clean our house and change our children's shitty diapers, bitch.

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-19-2013, 11:05 PM
:lmao Food Stamps Cobra's crackwhore of a mother being on foodstamps

Leetonidas
02-19-2013, 11:10 PM
$1947 :smokin

phyzik
02-19-2013, 11:26 PM
I got about $1500 back.

AFBlue
02-19-2013, 11:30 PM
I see we got a couple of "takers" up in here.

:lol 47% totally screwed you man!

DMC
02-20-2013, 01:29 AM
:lol that's a good one

275 million huh? Your childish response and answer leads me to believe you most likely make a low hourly rate. Not that there's anything wrong with that though, I'll always need someone to do the shit work I'm over-qualified, and too smart to do. My family will also need your wife or boyfriend or whomever, to clean our house and change our children's shitty diapers, bitch.

It<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->you

spursncowboys
02-20-2013, 02:42 AM
:lmao Food Stamps Cobra's crackwhore of a mother being on foodstamps
I bet if she asked him to change her windshield wipers on her car, he could.
:lmao

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-20-2013, 09:12 AM
I bet if she asked him to change her windshield wipers on her car, he could.
:lmao

She's on food stamps so chances are she doesn't have a car :lol

:lol Sean Jacquemotte
:lol blue collar white trash smack talk

spursncowboys
02-20-2013, 09:16 AM
:lol changing wiper blades is blue collar
:lol changing wiper blades is white trash

You probably never met someone on food stamps. It's kind of like how you live off your mom. :lmao
also that's three! :toast

DUNCANownsKOBE
02-20-2013, 09:19 AM
:lol changing wiper blades is blue collar
:lol changing wiper blades is white trash

You probably never met someone on food stamps. It's kind of like how you live off your mom. :lmao
also that's three! :toast
:lol talking smack about how you perform blue collar labor really well is white trash
:lol talking smack about how my parents are smart people who actually saved money for me while your parents were lazy pieces of shit is also white trash

Drachen
02-20-2013, 09:44 AM
wow, its amazing how much things have changed when basic maintenance (even of the non-dirty variety) is "blue collar labor".

resistanze
02-20-2013, 09:51 AM
Filed my return last night, getting $4800 :hungry:

spursncowboys
02-20-2013, 10:17 AM
:lmao changing wiper blades is blue collar. Holy shit!!

What else is blue collar white trash? Doing the dishes? Mowing the lawn? :lol Taking out the trash?

spursncowboys
02-20-2013, 10:19 AM
:lol talking smack about how you perform blue collar labor really well is white trash
:lol talking smack about how my parents are smart people who actually saved money for me while your parents were lazy pieces of shit is also white trash
Being a grown adult and a burden on your parents. :lmao
My mom saved money too. So when I decided to go to college on my own, she got to go to Vegas and cruises. :lol I bet you were that kid that yelled at his mom in front of his friends.

Das Texan
02-20-2013, 11:07 AM
I'm probably paying a lot.

I wont start mine til March 1.

DarkReign
02-20-2013, 12:39 PM
Has anyone here ever been audited?

Every 3 years.

DarkReign
02-20-2013, 12:41 PM
Cant file until September of every year, need an extension every time to close the books from previous year.

What people get or dont makes no difference to me. I do find it odd that my niece's mother works at a gas station part time @ minimum wage, earns less than $15k a year and gets roughly $4-6k back per year.

resistanze
02-20-2013, 01:07 PM
I do find it odd that my niece's mother works at a gas station part time @ minimum wage, earns less than $15k a year and gets roughly $4-6k back per year.

Holy crap, that's a lot.

Only reason I'm getting almost 5K back is because of the tuition tax credit I carried over from 7 years of post-secondary education. That ends next year.

Spur|n|Austin
02-20-2013, 01:17 PM
Every 3 years.

Why so often, if you don't mind me asking?

DarkReign
02-20-2013, 04:01 PM
Why so often, if you don't mind me asking?

Because the IRS/State are pricks to SBOs. Especially since the recession hit. Its only been two times in a row now, but I foresee a third in the near future.

Its a painless process, however. Tax man/woman shows up all nice as pie, you hand them the books in the conference room and 4 hours later, they shake hands goodbye. Just pay your taxes and keep good books, its really that simple.

EDITED: Shit, I just realized you probably meant "personally" audited. No, never.

Spur|n|Austin
02-20-2013, 05:03 PM
Because the IRS/State are pricks to SBOs. Especially since the recession hit. Its only been two times in a row now, but I foresee a third in the near future.

Its a painless process, however. Tax man/woman shows up all nice as pie, you hand them the books in the conference room and 4 hours later, they shake hands goodbye. Just pay your taxes and keep good books, its really that simple.

EDITED: Shit, I just realized you probably meant "personally" audited. No, never.

I did mean personally yeah, but it's interesting to see that a small business owner like yourself is being audited so often. I have several friends and family members who own their own business and have not been audited...yet.. As for personally audited, f that from what I've heard of other peoples experiences.

Wild Cobra
02-21-2013, 03:56 AM
She's on food stamps so chances are she doesn't have a car :lol

:lol Sean Jacquemotte
:lol blue collar white trash smack talk
I don't know what's wrong with you, but you are seriously stupid.

Wild Cobra
02-21-2013, 03:57 AM
:lmao changing wiper blades is blue collar. Holy shit!!

What else is blue collar white trash? Doing the dishes? Mowing the lawn? :lol Taking out the trash?
Looks like any type of work...

Vladimir Lenin
02-21-2013, 04:09 AM
Looks like any type of work...


Man lot of leftist on this board.

Vladimir Lenin
02-21-2013, 04:09 AM
http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=50597

DarkReign
02-21-2013, 10:08 AM
I did mean personally yeah, but it's interesting to see that a small business owner like yourself is being audited so often. I have several friends and family members who own their own business and have not been audited...yet.. As for personally audited, f that from what I've heard of other peoples experiences.

Michigan is a notoriously broke-ass state. I was just audited this year "randomly" by the State Treasury. It isnt very random when it happens twice in 6 years. Also, we had a former partner try to sue us who hired his own auditor to look at the books. If I had to guess, the (failed) lawsuit brought attention to the company that the State and Fed have flagged us as potential tax evaders. That was 2004. Regardless, like I said, not a big deal. One pot of coffee and 15 minutes of your time is all it takes for them to leave.