Kobe vs. Lebron: Poetry in Motion Vs. Utilitarian Ugly

[Calispursfan11]

As much as I am a Kobe hater, I like to watch that fool play. He has a graceful game and great looking shot (except for the lack of arc). When he drives, it's like poetry in motion - coordinated and smooth like butter. There are few players with that kind of dexterity. But Lebron on the other hand... he looks like a large tank out there - heavy, spastic and unnecessarily severe in his moves. Plus his jump shot is brutal looking and his drives mostly just look like one handed half-hook heaves. Even tho Lebron is making a run at the GOAT list, he's got nothing when it comes to looking good. He's pretty ugly to watch. Not as bad as Shawn Marion, but not good either. Kobe is still the most fun to watch and that's absolutely amazing at his age. I will give Kobe the props he deserves on that before he is put out to pasture for good.

[irishock]

Anthony and Dirk are the best players to watch

[Latarian Milton]

it's like the comparison between captain america and hulk imho. captain might be the nicer one to look at but you know which one is the real deal when it comes to real fight. wwe-style wrestling moves won't win you any real fight tbh

[TDMVPDPOY]

tmac game > kome

[lefty]

Lebron shitting on this thread

[Calispursfan11]

Lebron shitting on this thread

Lefty son, you're missing the point of this thread entirely. I don't care how effective Bron Bron is, if he gets 10 straight quadruple doubles or if he wins 10 more championships. That will not make him pretty tbh... Just not gonna happen.

[Calispursfan11]

tmac game > kome

Why are you picking your nose son?

[cheguevara]

Suns were nice to watch too. Too bad they did not have a HOF bigman to carry them to titles.

[JRHernandez88]

Wtf?? Fk being pretty this dude is dominating every part of the game.

[resistanze]

LeBron's currently beating the so-called Title Contenders with an ugly stick.

[Cry Havoc]

LeBron's jumpshot looks fucking effortless. It may not be Ray Allen, but neither are Kobe's multitude of air balls and ugly chucks.

[FkLA]

WTF? Since when is forcing up bad shots 'prettier' than being a surgeon out on the court that makes the right play basically every single time ?

[JingleJangleJingle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA

[ambchang]

Lebron should have watched more MJ tape, TBH.

[Koolaid_Man]

Lebron's game is simple:

wait for a pick shoot a jumper...
wait for a pick hard drive to the right....
teammate got a steal? ok throw me lob
fast break cock back hard slam with one hand....

he does it with raw power but it's nothing we haven't seen before by grandma ma...tbh
also does it in a watered down league with no one to challenge him..

I'm still not impressed by the guy...I've already seen what the best basketball skills have to offer in MJ and Kobe...there's nothing Lebron can do that will cause me to appreciate his game...

If you saw the Olympic Games in China where Kobe is revered as he should be, he got the loudest ovation out of all the thousands of athletes from all around the globe. This is because people recognize skill and talent when they see it.

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm not sure what kind of weed kill they put in the SA water

[Killakobe81]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA

Lebron's passing is easily the prettiest part of his game ... I dont know if he has PG skills but I would say he is the best passing SF since Bird. And I think he might actually be better overall. Bird had better anticpation but Lebrons strength allows him to make cross-court passes on a rope in the shooters pocket. I cant lie Lebron is better at this than Kobe (and Kobe is an underrated though unwilling passer) his passing is MAgicesque ...

[Cry Havoc]

Lebron's passing is easily the prettiest part of his game ... I dont know if he has PG skills but I would say he is the best passing SF since Bird. And I think he might actually be better overall. Bird had better anticpation but Lebrons strength allows him to make cross-court passes on a rope in the shooters pocket. I cant lie Lebron is better at this than Kobe (and Kobe is an underrated though unwilling passer) his passing is MAgicesque ...

He's also shooting better from 3 this year than Kobe ever has. So yeah, clearly LeBron is just a one-dimensional player. :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

He's also shooting better from 3 this year than Kobe ever has. So yeah, clearly LeBron is just a one-dimensional player. :lol

hey sausage face...quick question...what elite defenders has Lebron faced?

[irishock]

LeBron has a higher 3PT% because defenders respect his ability to drive right to the rim, so they sag off of him.

:lmao shitty take

[gaKNOW!blee]

hey sausage face...quick question...what elite defenders has Lebron faced?

Hard to face elite defenders when you're by far the best (defender)

[UNCLE-DREW]

Lebron's game is simple:

wait for a pick shoot a jumper...
wait for a pick hard drive to the right....
teammate got a steal? ok throw me lob
fast break cock back hard slam with one hand....

he does it with raw power but it's nothing we haven't seen before by grandma ma...tbh
also does it in a watered down league with no one to challenge him..

I'm still not impressed by the guy...I've already seen what the best basketball skills have to offer in MJ and Kobe...there's nothing Lebron can do that will cause me to appreciate his game...

If you saw the Olympic Games in China where Kobe is revered as he should be, he got the loudest ovation out of all the thousands of athletes from all around the globe. This is because people recognize skill and talent when they see it.

call me any other player which does the things you already saw not named lebron..

closest what comes to lebron is magic and hes not even close

[Killakobe81]

He's also shooting better from 3 this year than Kobe ever has. So yeah, clearly LeBron is just a one-dimensional player. :lol

Christ, Cry ...who said he is one dimensional?

I have said ALL year he is the best in the game with an outside shot at GOAT ...still.

OP is talking about form and asthetics not about effectiveness or production. Lebron is the most dominant player in the NBA but his game unless he is passing dunking or doing chase blocks is not pretty or particularly graceful. Give him a head of steam and a free lane I think his game is beautiful in flight ...the way he catches lobs and finishes. His cross-court passes are immaculate. And his chase down blocks are like taking my boy Cooper to the next level. But in the post, and on his jumpshot his mechanics are just not pretty. That has nothing to do with Lebron's status as the best player ... he is ugly but effective.

[UNCLE-DREW]

hey sausage face...quick question...what elite defenders has Lebron faced?

what's you excuse then for kobe chucking up shots.. even kobe's little brother "in your eyes" :lol Wade shoots over 50%

[Cry Havoc]

Christ, Cry ...who said he is one dimensional?

That wasn't directed at you really, more the OP, who seems to think LeBron has little finesse to his game.


I have said ALL year he is the best in the game with an outside shot at GOAT ...still.

OP is talking about form and asthetics not about effectiveness or production. Lebron is the most dominant player in the NBA but his game unless he is passing dunking or doing chase blocks is not pretty or particularly graceful. Give him a head of steam and a free lane I think his game is beautiful in flight ...the way he catches lobs and finishes. His cross-court passes are immaculate. And his chase down blocks are like taking my boy Cooper to the next level. But in the post, and on his jumpshot his mechanics are just not pretty. That has nothing to do with Lebron's status as the best player ... he is ugly but effective.

I think it's ridiculous to call LeBron's game ugly considering the post above which is nothing but incredible passes.

And since when has ANYONE ever worried about being graceful in the post? What the fuck? Is this even a thing?

[Clipper Nation]

Tbh, Kirby's game is uglier to me.... I'll take LeBron's nuanced game over Kirby's selfish chucking, ballhogging, and complete lack of effort on defense any day....

[Cry Havoc]

Tbh, Kirby's game is uglier to me.... I'll take LeBron's nuanced game over Kirby's selfish chucking, ballhogging, and complete lack of effort on defense any day....

But those 28% fadeaways are so graceful! :cry :cry

[Thread]

My Team
Los Angeles Clippers

:lmao

[Koolaid_Man]

what's you excuse then for kobe chucking up shots.. even kobe's little brother "in your eyes" :lol Wade shoots over 50%

It was a really simple and basic question...if you can't answer it...simply say: "Kool I cannot answer it". or: "Kool I do not know...or "Kool , he's faced none".

Again what elite defenders has Lebron faced?

[ambchang]

The same ones Kobe faced?

[spurraider21]

I love the crying sounds of "herp derp its only because he's athletic herp derp." To which I say, who cares. The only thing that counts is gettin it done. I don't care how, or what skill it took. Shaq is one of the greatest players of all time, and the most dominant big I've seen, largely because of his physique and athleticism, not his "poetry in motion" lmao. Most of the NBA greats were phenomenal athletes so lets not kid ourselves. MJ and Kobe are great athletes. In different ways than LeBron, but great nonetheless. Wilt with his size and athletecism. We all recently saw the vid of Bill Russell driving down the length of the court and leaping over the defender to lay it in. kareem was what, 7'3? Would he have been effective if he was only 6'7? No. but nobody cries about Kareem and says "overrated. only good because of his height. scrub." Magic was a 6'9 point guard who ran and handled the ball as fluidly has a 6'1 guy. That's not even fair.

I don't care how athletic LeBron is. All that matters is productivity, efficiency, winning.

[Arcadian]

Lebron's game is simple:

wait for a pick shoot a jumper...
wait for a pick hard drive to the right....
teammate got a steal? ok throw me lob
fast break cock back hard slam with one hand....

he does it with raw power but it's nothing we haven't seen before by grandma ma...tbh
also does it in a watered down league with no one to challenge him..

I'm still not impressed by the guy...I've already seen what the best basketball skills have to offer in MJ and Kobe...there's nothing Lebron can do that will cause me to appreciate his game...

If you saw the Olympic Games in China where Kobe is revered as he should be, he got the loudest ovation out of all the thousands of athletes from all around the globe. This is because people recognize skill and talent when they see it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcjIestFVOc

I enjoy watching Lebron more, fwiw. His game might be simple, but that's a good thing. Simplicity is efficiency. If you can accomplish more than someone else with less effort, you are superior. Lebron's game is very intelligent and efficient, much like Timmy D.

[spurraider21]

LeBron has a higher 3PT% because defenders respect his ability to drive right to the rim, so they sag off of him.

:lmao shitty take

I'm guessing nobody respected Jordan's drive, which by your logic explains why he was only a career 32.7% three point shooter.

Meanwhile Kirby who got to play alongside dominant shaq and was much more athletic as far as getting to the rim must have never had good looks from 3. That easily explains why he's never cracked 40% for a season. LeBron and Kobe have near identical career 3pt shooting figures (33.7 for Kobe, 33.5 for Bron), but LeBron's has an upwards trajectory. 33% a few years ago, 36% last year, 39% this year. His shot/form looks a lot better too

[Koolaid_Man]

I love the crying sounds of "herp derp its only because he's athletic herp derp." To which I say, who cares. The only thing that counts is gettin it done. I don't care how, or what skill it took. Shaq is one of the greatest players of all time, and the most dominant big I've seen, largely because of his physique and athleticism, not his "poetry in motion" lmao. Most of the NBA greats were phenomenal athletes so lets not kid ourselves. MJ and Kobe are great athletes. In different ways than LeBron, but great nonetheless. Wilt with his size and athletecism. We all recently saw the vid of Bill Russell driving down the length of the court and leaping over the defender to lay it in. kareem was what, 7'3? Would he have been effective if he was only 6'7? No. but nobody cries about Kareem and says "overrated. only good because of his height. scrub." Magic was a 6'9 point guard who ran and handled the ball as fluidly has a 6'1 guy. That's not even fair.

I don't care how athletic LeBron is. All that matters is productivity, efficiency, winning.

What great prime big man has Lebron had to play through to win a chip....Has Lebron faced any like a prime Duncan and won the chip...:lol this guy simply has not had the battles that Kobe's had...he doesn't deserve the adulation in my view...he's been on easy street...no real competition because everyone got old...and no new leaders emerged...it's like being a great general after the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are all but over....

[spurraider21]

What great prime big man has Lebron had to play through to win a chip....Has Lebron faced any like a prime Duncan and won the chip...:lol this guy simply has not had the battles that Kobe's had...he doesn't deserve the adulation in my view...he's been on easy street...no real competition because everyone got old...and no new leaders emerged...it's like being a great general after the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are all but over....

Kobe can't win without having one or 2 elite bigs on his team, what does that say about him? Its like being a shitty general when your country has all the nukes

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe can't win without having one or 2 elite bigs on his team, what does that say about him? Its like being a shitty general when your country has all the nukes

horrible and very misguided come back analogy...I said nothing about Lebron's teammates (i.e who he played with) we're talking path way to success...and like a druken cadet soldier behind the wheel in a mine field you're veering far off course... stay with me this time..ok :lol

let's try this again...

What great prime big man has Lebron had to play against to win a chip....Has Lebron faced any like a prime players Duncan and won the chip...:lol this guy simply has not had the battles that Kobe's had...he doesn't deserve the adulation in my view...he's been on easy street...no real competition because everyone got old...and no new leaders emerged...it's like being a general who brags about defeating Egypt, Syria, and Libya...real heavy weights...:lol

[whitemamba]

kobes game is fucking amazing, the nigga is the most fundamentally sound player still, and probably the hardest working one as well.

[phxspurfan]

hey sausage face...quick question...what elite defenders has Lebron faced?

Kinda legit take tbh. Memphis has played them well the two times they've played IIRC.

[phxspurfan]

Although the Pacers and Celtics have a couple up and coming good defenders in George and Bradley.

But I think LeBron did beast on the Thunders with Sefolosha guarding him.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Kool has made this argument before..when I asked him to name defenders Kobe has faced, he named guys like Ruben Patterson and Raja Bell as his argument, tbh:lol..

Lebron's competition in this era isn't great, neither was Jordan's, and neither was Kobe's in 2009 and 2010..in fact, the West in those years was just as bad as today's East, the Lakers WCF opponents were the Denver Nuggets(:lol) and the past their prime Phoenix Suns..

Their Finals opponent in 2009 was Orlando:lol..

[JamStone]

I might agree with the OP that Kobe's game is more aesthetically pleasing to watch than LeBron's, but I will still take results over aesthetics all day, every day. It's not like LeBron's game is really that ugly to me either. It's just not as smooth or graceful. But LeBron for the last couple seasons has been the best and most dominant player on the planet. I think before last season, people could argue that LeBron didn't have any rings to show for his dominance. But that ring and FMVP last year can now back up his dominance. While it's nice to have both, I'll take LeBron's dominance over Kobe's "aesthetics."

[irishock]

I'm guessing nobody respected Jordan's drive, which by your logic explains why he was only a career 32.7% three point shooter.


There was no zone defense during Jordan's time, smartass.

[spurraider21]

There was no zone defense during Jordan's time, smartass.

point being? so lebron is able to dominate in a league where zone defense is legal. doesn't that say something too?

[Koolaid_Man]

I might agree with the OP that Kobe's game is more aesthetically pleasing to watch than LeBron's, but I will still take results over aesthetics all day, every day. It's not like LeBron's game is really that ugly to me either. It's just not as smooth or graceful. But LeBron for the last couple seasons has been the best and most dominant player on the planet. I think before last season, people could argue that LeBron didn't have any rings to show for his dominance. But that ring and FMVP last year can now back up his dominance. While it's nice to have both, I'll take LeBron's dominance over Kobe's "aesthetics."

Like I said..his dominance over what competition...name one great prime defender he's faced...you can't...dude is lucky that he's playing in the watered down era...were they're is no to get in his ass like they did Kobe's...

[Cry Havoc]

I might agree with the OP that Kobe's game is more aesthetically pleasing to watch than LeBron's, but I will still take results over aesthetics all day, every day. It's not like LeBron's game is really that ugly to me either. It's just not as smooth or graceful. But LeBron for the last couple seasons has been the best and most dominant player on the planet. I think before last season, people could argue that LeBron didn't have any rings to show for his dominance. But that ring and FMVP last year can now back up his dominance. While it's nice to have both, I'll take LeBron's dominance over Kobe's "aesthetics."

Even if LeBron's jumpshot isn't a waterfall like Ray Allen, given the sheer breadth of things he does well, I'll take that also. He can hit from anywhere inside 30 feet at any time, can make pinpoint passes, throws and catches oops, and his overall awareness is just off the charts. I bet he's already got more chase down blocks in his career than Kobe, and while that isn't necessarily a metric of defensive prowess, I think it's just one more anecdote to show the level that LeBron is playing at. Scary thing is, he's still not at or near his ceiling, considering his February PER of 37.

[irishock]

point being? so lebron is able to dominate in a league where zone defense is legal. doesn't that say something too?

Point is LeBron's 3pt shooting is inflated because of the zone defense. I never said he didn't dominate.

[JamStone]

Even if LeBron's jumpshot isn't a waterfall like Ray Allen, given the sheer breadth of things he does well, I'll take that also. He can hit from anywhere inside 30 feet at any time, can make pinpoint passes, throws and catches oops, and his overall awareness is just off the charts. I bet he's already got more chase down blocks in his career than Kobe, and while that isn't necessarily a metric of defensive prowess, I think it's just one more anecdote to show the level that LeBron is playing at. Scary thing is, he's still not at or near his ceiling, considering his February PER of 37.

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? I can't tell.

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol Kool has made this argument before..when I asked him to name defenders Kobe has faced, he named guys like Ruben Patterson and Raja Bell as his argument, tbh:lol..

Lebron's competition in this era isn't great, neither was Jordan's, and neither was Kobe's in 2009 and 2010..in fact, the West in those years was just as bad as today's East, the Lakers WCF opponents were the Denver Nuggets(:lol) and the past their prime Phoenix Suns..

Their Finals opponent in 2009 was Orlando:lol..

I named them for you already dipshit...Prime players (and some close to prime) Kobe faced and let me include big men since Kobe has a post game that Lebron can only dream of....

Bruce Bowen, Stephen Jackson, Doug Christie, Tayshaun Prince, Ron Artest, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Josh Howard, Raja Bell, Rueben Patterson, Reggie Miller, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Rip Hamilton, Jason Kidd..these are just some of the guys off the top of my head that defended Kobe very well either man to man or with team defense.

Point is Lebron hasn't faced squat...he hasn't earned shit to me except what the media bequeaths him...that's why most all of the all time greats pick prime Kobe over Lebron...

and I won't even address your absurd claim that MJ never faced great defenders...well yes I will dipshit...the 92 Knicks team was one of the greatest and toughest teams of all times to get through...X-Man, Anthony Mason, Starks, Ewing and very tough defenders on wing players...especially MJ...there were "The Jordan Rules" something Lebron likely has never heard of....and then the Lakers and Celtic teams that MJ could never get past in his prime...

basically cut the horse shit you dip shit...

[spurraider21]

Point is LeBron's 3pt shooting is inflated because of the zone defense. I never said he didn't dominate.

So if Kobe's 3 point shooting never touched 40% despite the weakness of zone defense, what does that say?

[Koolaid_Man]

So if Kobe's 3 point shooting never touched 40% despite the weakness of zone defense, what does that say?

it says he was too busy trying to make his teammates better....btw Hand-checking was outlawed in 94 if I'm not mistaken...Kobe still the only player that gets hand-checked...

[irishock]

So if Kobe's 3 point shooting never touched 40% despite the weakness of zone defense, what does that say?

That defenders respect Kobe's 3 point shooting ability more than they do LeBron's.

Listen I know what you're trying to get at, I'm not here to discuss Kobe vs LeBron overall, because it's not even a debate. However there's just no way I'll believe you if you say LeBron is even slightly close to Kobe in terms of outside shooting. Kobe would kill LeBron in a jumpshooting contest.

[Cry Havoc]

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? I can't tell.

Mostly just echoing what you said.

[Killakobe81]

That wasn't directed at you really, more the OP, who seems to think LeBron has little finesse to his game.



I think it's ridiculous to call LeBron's game ugly considering the post above which is nothing but incredible passes.

And since when has ANYONE ever worried about being graceful in the post? What the fuck? Is this even a thing?

Watch Duncan, Cry. He does has some ugly looking hooks no doubt about it but if you watch his feet ...his foot work is exquisite and as a fan of fundamentals it's beautiful to me.

But I would rather someone be ugly but effective than pretty and shitty. I have seen plenty of players with pretty jumpers in warm-ups that cant hit shit when the game is going. LEbron is a beast in every sense of the word. His game is bullying niggas cuz he is bigger and stronger and faster ...add his high skill level and he is a dominant player the most dominant in our game today just not the prettiest.

Watch Dirk's mid post jumper that is pretty as well his foot-work and his release. That is the difference

[spurraider21]

it says he was too busy trying to make his teammates better

Kobe is jacking up over 5 three pointers per game this year, his most since 2007. just because his percentage is asshole doesn't mean you have to go justify it

[spurraider21]

That defenders respect Kobe's 3 point shooting ability more than they do LeBron's.

Listen I know what you're trying to get at, I'm not here to discuss Kobe vs LeBron overall, because it's not even a debate. However there's just no way I'll believe you if you say LeBron is even slightly close to Kobe in terms of outside shooting. Kobe would kill LeBron in a jumpshooting contest.

its not debatable that LeBron's outside shot has improved dramatically. even guys that are designated spot up 3 point shooters who only catch and shoot wide open 3's would be glad to have a 3pt% as high as lebron's this year. regardless of how much/little his 3 point shot is getting "respected" he's making them pay for it because he has developed into one of the better shooters around

Joining a thread that starts with "Kobe vs. LeBron" then saying you aren't here to discuss them :lol