Trade Deadline Deals and Rumors

[Bruno]

Trade deadline is Thursday at 3 pm ET.

[Bruno]

302659580016619520

[Spur|n|Austin]

302659580016619520

Hell of a deal for the Celts.

[Bruno]

I would be glad to see Bledsoe leaving Clippers. He is a matchup nightmare for Spurs current roster.

[loveforthegame]

That's a crazy good deal for Boston.

Would love to see the Clippers lose both.

[Pasta Batman]

302659580016619520

That would be a big blow to the Clippers future to be honest. Yes, KG would be better for the playoffs in some ways, losing Jordan and Bledsoe for the upcoming years, is a bad thing.

[kobyz]

that deal would make the Clippers the most favorite to win it all in the west. and Jordan is a trash, very little positive player and with big overrated contract.

[99 Problems]

Maybe LeBrian not coming to Clippers, so it's accelerated win-mode right now before CP3 goes seeing Brian no show later?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

"jordan is a trash." i dropped him in fantasy league this year. he gets in foul trouble too much, and he sucks at free throws. bledsoe is diamond in the rough though. the guy gets blocks consistently as a point guard!

[racm]

That deal would actually help the Spurs. Means that Jordan and Bledsoe (both actually pretty productive players despite not being high IQ players) don't present an athletic matchup nightmare for the Spurs. KG OTOH is a better shooter but the Spurs have limited his impact well this season.

[Spurs da champs]

KG has been wearing down playing center in the East, move him back to the more competitive West & he'll break.

[racm]

KG has been wearing down playing center in the East, move him back to the more competitive West & he'll break.

And watch as Timmy eats him alive in the playoffs.

[Spurs da champs]

And watch as Timmy eats him alive in the playoffs.
:hungry:

[BatManu20]

Would be a hell of a deal for the Celtics tbh. You get a young, athletic defensive-minded PG in Bledsoe and a young athletic Center like Jordan for a guy who's going to retire in a year or two? Boston would be dumb not to take it. No way Clippers make this move imo. I'd be really surprised.

[Uriel]

I have no idea what Spurs fans who think this deal makes the Clippers worse are talking about. Maybe in the long-term, but definitely not this season. If they could pull this off, they be right up there with the Spurs and Oklahoma City as far as making it out of the West.

The only upside I see to this deal is the possibility of OKC losing in the 2nd round.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i love the spurs and i believe in timmy, pop, can company...but man!...

paul and griffin + kg! with billups, crawford, hill, barnes, odom for filling them out? and a spur calling plays! i hope that LA environment is as toxic to the clipps as it has been to the lakers. cause that is a fine basketballin' rotation. i think doc and vinny have tony manu envy.

[Pasta Batman]

I have no idea what Spurs fans who think this deal makes the Clippers worse are talking about. Maybe in the long-term, but definitely not this season. If they could pull this off, they be right up there with the Spurs and Oklahoma City as far as making it out of the West.

The only upside I see to this deal is the possibility of OKC losing in the 2nd round.

Depends. Spurs suffer most against athletic teams. KG is a lot older, and still is damn good, but he's not that super athletic freak he once was. Bledsoe is a damn good defensive guard. He's one of their biggest X-Factors against the Spurs. Aside from OKC, Bledsoe, Paul and Billups make Neal pee his pants.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

oops that can should be an.

and yeah bostons roster would be pretty nasty this season. it'd be a total nightmare next year. healthy sullinger. and rondo traded for an upgrade over bass.

[BatManu20]

The Toronto Raptors are a head nod away from acquiring both Carlos Boozer and Nate Robinson from the Chicago Bulls.
According to reports, the Bulls have already agreed to trade Boozer and Robinson in exchange for Andrea Bargnani and John Lucas III. The only thing holding the trade up from completion is for Toronto to sign off on it.

http://fansided.com/2013/02/15/nba-trade-rumors-chicago-bulls-finalizing-deal-to-trade-carlos-boozer/

[BatManu20]

Regarding potential Celtics-Clippers trade:

Chris Broussard: Vinny Del Negro wants KG, willing to give Bledsoe/Jordan for him. Clips front office totally against the move. Front office has final say (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)Chris (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1656)_Broussard


Chris Broussard: If Boston wants WGreen, RTuriaf & C Butler, sure the Clips front office will take KG, but not for Bled & Jordan (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)Chris (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1656)_Broussard


Sources speculated if Garnett were to agree to a trade, the Celtics would then aggressively attempt to move Pierce before Thursday’s trading deadline (http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/16/13/Sources-Celtics-contemplate-Garnett-trad/msn_landing.html?blockID=865075&feedID=3725). Garnett is in his 18th season and averaging 15.1 points on 50-percent shooting and 7.7 rebounds. He said earlier this week Sunday’s All-Star Game in Houston will be his last. Garnett will start for the Eastern Conference. FOXSports Ohio (http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/16/13/Sources-Celtics-contemplate-Garnett-trad/msn_landing.html?blockID=865075&feedID=3725)

[racm]

The Toronto Raptors are a head nod away from acquiring both Carlos Boozer and Nate Robinson from the Chicago Bulls.
According to reports, the Bulls have already agreed to trade Boozer and Robinson in exchange for Andrea Bargnani and John Lucas III. The only thing holding the trade up from completion is for Toronto to sign off on it.

http://fansided.com/2013/02/15/nba-trade-rumors-chicago-bulls-finalizing-deal-to-trade-carlos-boozer/

Bulls getting robbed here tbh. :lmao

Sure Boozer has a bad contract but he's more productive than Bustnani.

[BatManu20]

Edit*: The Raptors have also engaged the Sixers in conversations centered on Bargnani, sources said. No word on what the Sixers would need to offer in return, although a Western Conference executive suspects it would involve center Spencer Hawes.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1531345-nba-trade-rumors-2013-raptors-and-sixers-engaged-in-trade-talks

[Darkwaters]

Celtics would be crazy not to accept that offer.

Not sure why the Clippers would actually offer this.

[sehui]

A little inside scoop from Pop:

Forty-five seconds into one of his least favorite All-Star weekend activities, Tim Duncan’s response was interrupted from afar during a mandatory Friday morning session with reporters peppering him with questions both perceptive and inane. “How are you doing, old man,” former Spurs forward Robert Horry shouted across a hotel ballroom overflowing with inquiring minds. “What’s up?” Duncan shouted back to “Big Shot Rob,” the seven-time NBA champion who helped the Spurs win their third and fourth NBA titles in 2005 and 2007 before retiring in 2008, at age 37, after five seasons in silver and black. “Can you still walk?” Horry said, punctuating the question with a cackle. “A little bit,” Duncan said. “Just a little bit, but I’m still younger than you, buddy.” (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/02/15/nba-all-star-weekend-ageless-wonder-duncan-still-has-leg-up-on-peers/) San Antonio Express-News (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/02/15/nba-all-star-weekend-ageless-wonder-duncan-still-has-leg-up-on-peers/)

Duncan also credits rigorous adherence to a program of healthy eating and offseason conditioning that has made the 36-year-old lighter and quicker and taken some of the strain off the creaky left knee. Spurs coach Gregg Popovich has held him out of games in recent seasons, even when healthy, because he wants him at optimal health for the playoffs. “The only thing we really do, and we’ve done it for a lot of years, is we usually sit down and pick a number for (average) minutes,” Popovich explained. “That’s what we try to stick to for the season. We’ve done that with Timmy, Tony (Parker) and Manu (Ginobili). That’s the one thing we do before the season starts, and we see how close we can stay to that (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/02/15/nba-all-star-weekend-ageless-wonder-duncan-still-has-leg-up-on-peers/). “As far as what games they play and what games they don’t play, that depends a lot on the nicks and bruises they have and how quickly the games are coming. If there are a lot of back-to-backs or four in five nights or seven in nine days, five in eight days, we try to put some money in the bank for later in the season, so to speak.” San Antonio Express-News (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/02/15/nba-all-star-weekend-ageless-wonder-duncan-still-has-leg-up-on-peers/)

How is this an inside scoop in a trade deadline thread...?

[Pasta Batman]

How is this an inside scoop in a trade deadline thread...?

It's around the trade deadline, and it's an inside scoop on the Spurs from Pop? It all makes sense now!

[objective]

my immediate reaction is that it would make the Clippers better, maybe a lot better. For a team with a dumb coach, adding smart players is the best antidote. Garnett compared to Jordan is just brutal for basketball IQ. The pick-and-pop with illegal screens for Chris Paul would be a giant pain for the Spurs. The defense alone would make the Clippers really tough to beat.

re: Bledsoe, Vinny Del Negro wasn't smart enough to give him heavy minutes last playoffs and with vets on his bench like Billups and Crawford I wouldn't be surprised if he under-plays Bledsoe again this coming playoffs.

[Mal]

Bulls getting robbed here tbh. :lmao

Sure Boozer has a bad contract but he's more productive than Bustnani.

I could make sense. With Deng, Gibson, Noah around Barganini`s lack of rebounding and post game could be masked.

[KenziE]

How is this an inside scoop in a trade deadline thread...?

i know right dude must be trollin

[Pasta Batman]

I could make sense. With Deng, Gibson, Noah around Barganini`s lack of rebounding and post game could be masked.

And once Rose plays again, the drive and kick with a jump shooting big man can definitely help their offense/spacing.

[playblair]

San Antonio May Be Shipping DeJuan Blair To Beantown


Possibly, Boston believes that Blair is being misused in San Antonio. I could see a trade for Fab Melo taking place; possibly, Jared Sullinger (slim chances) or Chris Wilcox. I would like to think that he still has the ability to wreck havoc on both ends of the court. Prior to him entering the NBA, I viewed Blair as the second coming of Charles Barkley. Now, I’m not so sure. Possibly, San Antonio has their eyes set on a low-post player in preparation of Tim Duncan possibly re-tiring after this season.


http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/02/16/san-antonio-may-be-shipping-dejuan-blair-to-beantown/ (http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/02/16/san-antonio-may-be-shipping-dejuan-blair-to-beantown/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[racm]

Fab Melo's an extremely raw kid. Can't really do anything on offense besides dunk (and if you're talking about a no-offense big we already have Baynes).

[Mal]

San Antonio May Be Shipping DeJuan Blair To Beantown




http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/02/16/san-antonio-may-be-shipping-dejuan-blair-to-beantown/ (http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/02/16/san-antonio-may-be-shipping-dejuan-blair-to-beantown/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)


Wow, that a lot of crap. 1st Duncan isnt retiring after this season. 2. How the fuck you could get Duncan`s replacement by trading Blair ?

[Darkwaters]

Fab Melo's an extremely raw kid. Can't really do anything on offense besides dunk (and if you're talking about a no-offense big we already have Baynes).

To be fair, I don't think you've seen enough of him to make that assessment. The scouting report says he has a pretty well developed 18 foot jump shot.

[Captivus]

I think this could be a good for the Celtics long term also.
Jordan contract $11M year is not good. At the end, KG retires and they get room to add other players.
They could get a Tiago with the same amount of money they are giving Jordan.
Bledsoe is another story.

[biskvito]

a confident Fab Melo is pretty scary, he can dunk, block, box out, solid FT shooter, already has a decent jumpshot from outside... I've seen him hits fade-away, off the glass, all kinds of shots, he impacts the game on both ends... he won't fly too much above the rim, which can be good long term to his knees...

but he won't find nobody to give him confidence he needs to develop at NBA, on the contrary all they tell him is you're not capable, you're too this or that, they should slap him 3 times and release him at the paint, I've seen him do things that could really impact at NBA level... hope he reaches his potential because it's fun player to watch when he's comfortable... maybe with more fitness and speed someone will give him a chance to play past his rookie nervousness

[Bruno]

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/The_Scoops_Knicks_looking_at_Luke_Ridnour_who_is_g irding_for_trade021513


The Knicks are one of several teams with interest in the Minnesota Timberwolves guard, according to a league source.

The others to varying degrees are Boston, Philadelphia, Utah and probably a couple more.

Wherever it is, a source close to Ridnour said he's mentally preparing for a trade by Thursday afternoon's deadline.

Ridnour, who is the Wolves' only player to appear in every game this season, is the most likely Timberwolves player to be moved.


Forward Derrick Williams is available, but a trade seems more likely this summer.

[Bruno]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/35786/despite-vow-from-lakers-howard-still-not-ready-to-commit


Howard confirmed Friday he has received assurances from Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak that he wouldn't be dealt by next week's trade deadline despite his unwillingness to commit to an extension or a new contract after the season.

The Howard drama should be fun to follow. I suspected the main reason why he keeps playing with his injured shoulder was to go at the ASG. After the ASG, I wouldn't be surprised to see him opting quickly for a season ending surgery.

[exstatic]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/35786/despite-vow-from-lakers-howard-still-not-ready-to-commit



The Howard drama should be fun to follow. I suspected the main reason why he keeps playing with his injured shoulder was to go at the ASG. After the ASG, I wouldn't be surprised to see him opting quickly for a season ending surgery.

Very likely. What is also very likely is that Howard is NEVER again the player he was before his back surgery.

[Pop]

Regarding potential Celtics-Clippers trade:

Chris Broussard: Vinny Del Negro wants KG, willing to give Bledsoe/Jordan for him. Clips front office totally against the move. Front office has final say (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)Chris (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1656)_Broussard


Chris Broussard: If Boston wants WGreen, RTuriaf & C Butler, sure the Clips front office will take KG, but not for Bled & Jordan (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)Chris (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1656)_Broussard


Sources speculated if Garnett were to agree to a trade, the Celtics would then aggressively attempt to move Pierce before Thursday’s trading deadline (http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/16/13/Sources-Celtics-contemplate-Garnett-trad/msn_landing.html?blockID=865075&feedID=3725). Garnett is in his 18th season and averaging 15.1 points on 50-percent shooting and 7.7 rebounds. He said earlier this week Sunday’s All-Star Game in Houston will be his last. Garnett will start for the Eastern Conference. FOXSports Ohio (http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/16/13/Sources-Celtics-contemplate-Garnett-trad/msn_landing.html?blockID=865075&feedID=3725)

Redeems Del Negro in my eyes tbh, if they get Garnett it's pretty much game over in the west, he fits so well with Griffin with his range, allowing Blake to play close to the basket where he's a beast.

[exstatic]

Redeems Del Negro in my eyes tbh, if they get Garnett it's pretty much game over in the west, he fits so well with Griffin with his range, allowing Blake to play close to the basket where he's a beast.

Did you read the part where VDN is the ONLY person w/ the LAC that wants Garnett and the front office basically said "Hell no"?

[CGD]

Not sure why theyd do it either unless they are that low on Jordan. There was speculation that they wanted to make cap room to make a push for Howard this summer. But this deal does little to help that.

[John B]

KG helps the Clippers in the playoffs down the stretch with his experience especially against Jordan's inability to shoot freethrows. And that could help them against other playoffs teams, but not the Spurs. The Spurs historically had matchup problems with athletic teams. So I like Spurs chances with this move. I can't wait TD eat KG alive. With Blake the guy is overrated. Just have Splitter stand there and raise his hands. The guy is short. Just don't let him go around you but stay in front of him and live with his jumpshots. Don't even need to doubleteam the guy and pass to an open Billups. Anyways I love the matchup better without Jordan and Bledsoe.

[John B]

This move is to get CP3 sign next year showing him the Clips are serious in going deep in the playoffs this year. Also making room for Dwight. But Dwight is going to Brooklyn and Gasol unhappy, both LA teams would end up without bigs in the near future. I like it.

[CGD]

Obviously this is far from a lock, but Boston can wake up the day after the deadline with complete revamped and exciting Roster if everything goes down.

PG Bledsoe
SG Bradley
SF Pierce (assuming he too isn't shipped)
Big 1 Jordon
Big 2 Howard

Based on the below rumors from downstairs:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA Y! Sources (w/ @SpearsNBAYahoo): Celtics, Clippers discussing deal centered on Kevin Garnett for Bledsoe, Jordan. http://tinyurl.com/br53wjq

The Los Angeles Lakers have engaged in preliminary discussions with the Boston Celtics on a trade centering on Dwight Howard and Rajon Rondo. The potential deal has not gained any traction, and other significant pieces would need to be involved.

[Richie]

I hope the Clips keep Jordan, his free throw shooting could be huge for us come playoff time.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

jordan and howard would terrible together. worse than gasol and howard. at least gasol can high post with shooting and passing skills. jordan is howard, you couldn't put them both on the court at the same time. jordan would probably disappear from stats, or howard would drop off and be pissy.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i think the biggest incentive to move jordan and bledsoe for kg is simple. paul would re-sign.

ps - paul, crawford, bledsoe, billups and they somehow start green? jordan and bledsoe for kg fixes that garbage too.

[Brunodf]

i think the biggest incentive to move jordan and bledsoe for kg is simple. paul would re-sign.

ps - paul, crawford, bledsoe, billups and they somehow start green? jordan and bledsoe for kg fixes that garbage too.
Just like Pop started scrubs at SG for years.

[will_spurs]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA Y! Sources (w/ @SpearsNBAYahoo): Celtics, Clippers discussing deal centered on Kevin Garnett for Bledsoe, Jordan. http://tinyurl.com/br53wjq

This looked like a farcical idea as long as Woj wasn't reporting it...

[DesignatedT]

Marc J. Spears ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo
When asked if there was any team or circumstance that he would drop his trade clause for, Kevin Garnett simply said: "No."

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Wow, that a lot of crap. 1st Duncan isnt retiring after this season. 2. How the fuck you could get Duncan`s replacement by trading Blair ?

the spurs have shown they can find superstar outside of 1st overall. manu ginobili and tony parker are superstars. splitter and kawhi have potential. i shutter to think it but even green could blossom into a ray allen.

i think the spurs have made living with impressive drafts and spot on bargain pick ups. the only market they haven't mastered and you'd think they would... trade.

[MR-Clutch]

Lol Green compared to Ray Allen.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

look at ray now. the only difference between them is one's on the way up and the other is on the way down.

[Darius Bieber]

To be blatantly honest, Ray Allen is a pure shooter and I don't think Danny Green can match his efficiency behind the three point line.

[timtonymanu]

Lol Green compared to Ray Allen.

[peacemaker885]

I would be glad to see Bledsoe leaving Clippers. He is a matchup nightmare for Spurs current roster.

Agree 100% That guy scares me.

[CGD]

I wish we knew more about the Blair situation. I have a feeling that with all the teams that have been linked to him in recent days (portland, Detroit, Bulls, Boston) that there has to be a baseline offer out there that the Spurs are weighing and hoping another team tops. I wonder what that offer looks like.

[playblair]

The Lakers (24-28) could call up a player from the D-League (http://www.latimes.com/topic/sports/basketball/nba-development-league-ORSPT000587.topic) or look to sign a free agent like Lou Amundson (http://www.latimes.com/topic/sports/basketball/lou-amundson-PESPT0000010663.topic) or Kenyon Martin (http://www.latimes.com/topic/sports/basketball/kenyon-martin-PESPT004674.topic). The San Antonio Spurs (http://www.latimes.com/topic/sports/basketball/san-antonio-spurs-ORSPT000116.topic) are believed to be shopping DeJuan Blair (http://www.latimes.com/topic/sports/basketball/dejuan-blair-PESPT0000010683.topic), who would fit into the Lakers disabled player exception (Jordan Hill (http://www.latimes.com/topic/sports/basketball/jordan-hill-PESPT0000010781.topic)).

............

[BatManu20]

KG in't going anywhere.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8954398/kevin-garnett-boston-celtics-see-self-waiving-no-trade-clause

[Splits]

To be blatantly honest, Ray Allen is a pure shooter and I don't think Danny Green can match his efficiency behind the three point line.

Allen is a career 40% from downtown and Green (in his short career) is 42%. Of course nobody is comparing Green's career to Allen's career since RayRay's been doing it for 17 years compared to Green's 2 years, but using Allen as a "ceiling" for Green is not preposterous.

[td4mvp2k]

I wish we knew more about the Blair situation. I have a feeling that with all the teams that have been linked to him in recent days (portland, Detroit, Bulls, Boston) that there has to be a baseline offer out there that the Spurs are weighing and hoping another team tops. I wonder what that offer looks like.

I saw Celtics beat writer say the C's were in to Blair and Maxiell for trade.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Allen is a career 40% from downtown and Green (in his short career) is 42%. Of course nobody is comparing Green's career to Allen's career since RayRay's been doing it for 17 years compared to Green's 2 years, but using Allen as a "ceiling" for Green is not preposterous.

thank you split. gosh, people get so lost on such simple concepts.

[BatManu20]

I wish we knew more about the Blair situation. I have a feeling that with all the teams that have been linked to him in recent days (portland, Detroit, Bulls, Boston) that there has to be a baseline offer out there that the Spurs are weighing and hoping another team tops. I wonder what that offer looks like.

Probably no more than a 2nd round pick tbh.. If that's all we're offered then I say we just keep him.

[exstatic]

This move is to get CP3 sign next year showing him the Clips are serious in going deep in the playoffs this year. Also making room for Dwight. But Dwight is going to Brooklyn and Gasol unhappy, both LA teams would end up without bigs in the near future. I like it.

Dwight is not going to Brooklyn. They don't have the cap room to sign him, and when the LAL get their tax bill this summer, as a multiple consecutive season offender they also get a moratorium on being on either side of a sign and trade until they finish a season under the tax figure. That likely won't be until Kobe retires. Even if the LAL wanted to trade him this summer, they can't.

[exstatic]

Probably no more than a 2nd round pick tbh.. If that's all we're offered then I say we just keep him.

He's walking this summer, so they should take the pick. It could turn into another Blair, DeColo, or Green.

[dunkman]

Ray Allen was a franchise player of the Bucks and the Sonics, he set a record for most 3's made, was an important part of the 08 Celtics team.

[therealtruth]

Just like Pop started scrubs at SG for years.

He still is.

[CGD]

Well if Howard really wants to go to Brooklyn, the Nets either need to trade for him now or create cap space at this deadline. In either event Lopez wont be on the roster unless a team is dumb enough to take any of the Nets' atrocious contracts. Boussard (i know, i know) raised the prospect of a Howard-Love-Lopez (and parts) trade that made some sense. The other option is for the Nets to trade Lopez away essential for expiring deals big enough to clear some space. Contracts like those of J. Smith (13M) and Al Jefferson (15M) and even Jax (10M) come to mind.

[DAF86]

What are the guys on the first page smoking? Garnett for Jordan/Bledsoe would make the Clippers better, we better pray for that trade not to happen.

[baseline bum]

Regarding potential Celtics-Clippers trade:

Chris Broussard: Vinny Del Negro wants KG, willing to give Bledsoe/Jordan for him. Clips front office totally against the move. Front office has final say (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)Chris (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1656)_Broussard


Chris Broussard: If Boston wants WGreen, RTuriaf & C Butler, sure the Clips front office will take KG, but not for Bled & Jordan (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html). Twitter (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)Chris (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1656)_Broussard

And that's why the Clippers are the worst franchise in American sports. It's not like they don't have Crawford and Odom to get decent minutes handling the ball when Paul is on the bench.

[itzsoweezee]

What are the guys on the first page smoking? Garnett for Jordan/Bledsoe would make the Clippers better, we better pray for that trade not to happen.

so the clippers would be better off with no center?

[letmk]

If KG goes to the Clippers, it will make them a better team in the short term. But it does not necessarily mean they have a better chance of beating the Spurs. Spurs lost to the Thunder because of inability at defense, not offense. Spurs' weakness is that they are not able to limit other team's athleticism, but KG does not add that to the Clippers.

KG is good at defense and jump shooting, and all of those do not make the Clippers a tougher match-up to the Spurs than it currently is (minus Jordan and Bledsoe). So I'll be very ecstatic if KG comes to the Spurs (I understand, 0 chance) since it will make up for Spurs' weakness, but I'm not that scared if he goes to the Clippers as it does not add much scare-factor to them.

Although as others in this thread mentioned, it might give them better chance to beat the Thunder. So if the current standing holds until the end of the season, the potential KG trade might be a bless for the Spurs.

[ffadicted]

Allen is a career 40% from downtown and Green (in his short career) is 42%. Of course nobody is comparing Green's career to Allen's career since RayRay's been doing it for 17 years compared to Green's 2 years, but using Allen as a "ceiling" for Green is not preposterous.

Yes it fucking is omg how are ppl so clueless lol Jesus christ spurs fans are some of the worst, dany green can be ray allen, wut wut wutw utuwtuwutwiutwutuwtuwtwt

[playblair]

DeJuan Blair to the #Celtics (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Celtics&src=hash) after contract details are settled!!!



@DeJuan45 (https://twitter.com/DeJuan45) You'll be a Boston Celtic soon right? Man I can't wait! #BleedGreen (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BleedGreen&src=hash)



DeJuan Blair to Boston Celtics very soon. #Interesting (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Interesting&src=hash)



twitter rumors ...........

[Pasta Batman]

twitter rumors ...........

Awesome.

[BatManu20]

twitter rumors ...........

Who would we trade him for? Fab Melo? Chris Wilcox?

[capek]

twitter rumors ...........

If he is traded, does that mean you go with him to whatever shitty Celtics board is out there? :tu

[ace3g]

bye

http://24.media.tumblr.com/559764d0848ec05f1460671f7b57405f/tumblr_mic2tpeT3v1s62tdbo1_1280.jpg

[szkorhetz]

He will go something like 20 & 13 in the next couple of weeks if this is true... Moving Garnett move to the perimeter is freeing up the inside for DB.

[timtonymanu]

Is that actually true? Or are Boston fans just assuming because there was an article about it?

[LittleCriminal]

Man this would be an even greater season if they traded this scrub!!
Fab Melo anyone?

[MR-Clutch]

Yes it fucking is omg how are ppl so clueless lol Jesus christ spurs fans are some of the worst, dany green can be ray allen, wut wut wutw utuwtuwutwiutwutuwtuwtwt

I don't think they watched the NBA during the spurs championship years. You can't, I repeat, you can't compare Danny Green to Ray Allen based on three point percentage. Its a joke. I like Danny but the kid can't dribble or even make a layup. He's a product of kickouts and will not even be half the player Allen was in his prime.

[Prime Time]

I don't think they watched the NBA during the spurs championship years. You can't, I repeat, you can't compare Danny Green to Ray Allen based on three point percentage. Its a joke. I like Danny but the kid can't dribble or even make a layup. He's a product of kickouts and will not even be half the player Allen was in his prime.
This. Danny Green is already 25, Ray Allen at that age was dropping 22/5/4 a night lol

[Prime Time]

Danny Green is basically Anthony Parker/A softer Raja Bell.

[BackHome]

SHARMAN SOFT..:)

[BackHome]

twitter rumors ...........

If this is true I wonder what we get cause it can't be the Celtics second rounder as they gave that to Portland so either there mid first round pick or they just give us cash?

[dbestpro]

Pop has always liked Bass. I would not be surprised to see Bonner, Bair and Joseph or Mills go for Bass and a future draft pick.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i make the comparison because of dannys ability to make 3's and play d. no danny isn't the playmaker allen is, probably won't ever be. but ferry or green may see it differently. a smith trade that doesn't involve the big 3, kawhi/splitter, or decolo/diaw! overvaluing green is the only way i see it possible. knowing ferry, it doesn't seem so far fetched.

if green blossomed into a star, what star would he most resemble? off the top of your head.

[Chinook]

i make the comparison because of dannys ability to make 3's and play d. no danny isn't the playmaker allen is, probably won't ever be. but ferry or green may see it differently. a smith trade that doesn't involve the big 3, kawhi/splitter, or decolo/diaw! overvaluing green is the only way i see it possible. knowing ferry, it doesn't seem so far fetched.

if green blossomed into a star, what star would he most resemble? off the top of your head.

That's a really hard question to answer, because his game would have to change so much. Old Michael Finley?

Really, Green would be best served to develop into an essential all-around role player. Those 15/5/5/2/2 players are never really considered stars.

EDIT: Spurs Finley's offense with Tony Allen's defense. That's about Green's dream ceiling. I don't really know if there's a star out there that resembles that combination.

[Mhak]

FAb Melo really!! People are very high on this scrub! He looks like he is hobbling when he runs the floor. He is like a lop.

[objective]

Really, Green would be best served to develop into an essential all-around role player. Those 15/5/5/2/2 players are never really considered stars.


15/5/5? 2/2? For Green? Really?

He has 4 career games with 5 assists or more. How could he ever average 5 assists? Maybe he could get 5 rebounds. He's never even averaged 1 block a game.

[MR-Clutch]

It doesn't matter. He'll never blossom into a star. Lets drop it and worry about trade rumors.

[Chinook]

15/5/5? 2/2? For Green? Really?

He has 4 career games with 5 assists or more. How could he ever average 5 assists? Maybe he could get 5 rebounds. He's never even averaged 1 block a game.

That's why it's called a ceiling and not a what he's already doing. I think those are realistic numbers, though if he reaches his potential. His per 36 numbers aren't too far off in anything but assists.

[Strategic]

That's a really hard question to answer, because his game would have to change so much. Old Michael Finley?

Really, Green would be best served to develop into an essential all-around role player. Those 15/5/5/2/2 players are never really considered stars.

EDIT: Spurs Finley's offense with Tony Allen's defense. That's about Green's dream ceiling. I don't really know if there's a star out there that resembles that combination.

You may be confusing Green's upside with what you want him to turn into. On offense his upside is 12-14 ppg. On defense his upside is what you're seeing. At best that makes him a third to fourth option on offense and the second or third best perimeter defender on the team. He's a three to four million dollar man, but certainly no Lee Majors. He will be 26 years old right after the end of this season, not sure why to expect a lot more?

[Chinook]

You may be confusing Green's upside with what you want him to turn into. On offense his upside is 12-14 ppg. On defense his upside is what you're seeing. At best that makes him a third to fourth option on offense and the second or third best perimeter defender on the team. He's a three to four million dollar man, but certainly no Lee Majors. He will be 26 years old right after the end of this season, not sure why to expect a lot more?

While I conceded that I'd love to see him reach his ceiling, I don't think I am being too optimistic in defining what his ceiling is. Green's main fault is that he makes little mental errors, which are completely fixable. He certainly is not too old to learn to stop leaving people wide open on defense. He's already a pretty good on ball defender.

He also already averages 14 points/36, so if he can stop missing easy layups, he could easily push that to 18-20.

Parker has added a lot to his game since turning 25. Why can't Green fix mental errors?

EDIT: So in order for him to reach the numbers I suggested, Green would have to add 1.2 points, 0.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists (big leap there) 0.6 steals and 1.1 blocks to his per 36 averages. Except for the assists, my numbers seem conservative.

[objective]

Not close to realistic.

Just talking steals: Very few players average 2 steals a game. 2 this year. 2 in 11-12. 3 in 10-11. 2 in 09-10. 4 in 08-09. It just doesn't happen very often.

Then with blocks . . . you know how many guards averaged 2 blocks a game the since 02-03? ZERO.

Of all players since 02-03, how many have averaged 2 blocks and 2 steals? One, Gerald Wallace. He didn't come close to 5 assists per game either. And you can go back 20 years to 92-93 and there's no one else. Kirilenko never averaged 2 & 2 per 36.

Just ignoring blocks . . . how many players since 02-03 have averaged 15, 5, 5, and 2 steals a game?

Just seven. Paul (x2), Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Kidd, and Iguodala. All hall of famers except Iguodala . . . who didn't even qualify per36 for steals because he played 40 minutes a game. None of them had 2 blocks a game, Wade came closest with 1.3 in over 38 minutes per game.

[Strategic]

While I conceded that I'd love to see him reach his ceiling, I don't think I am being too optimistic in defining what his ceiling is. Green's main fault is that he makes little mental errors, which are completely fixable. He certainly is not too old to learn to stop leaving people wide open on defense. He's already a pretty good on ball defender.

He also already averages 14 points/36, so if he can stop missing easy layups, he could easily push that to 18-20.

Parker has added a lot to his game since turning 25. Why can't Green fix mental errors?

EDIT: So in order for him to reach the numbers I suggested, Green would have to add 1.2 points, 0.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists (big leap there) 0.6 steals and 1.1 blocks to his per 36 averages. Except for the assists, my numbers seem conservative.

Thanks for justifying you thinking, really respect that. Let me make a statement and then ask a question. Duncan, Ginobili and Parker all won at least one NBA title before they were 25 years old. Did they have more help than Danny Green has had the past two years? On a one to ten scale I think Green's upside is a 6 to 7 and I think that if anyone of the Spurs young players can lead the team it's Leonard.

[objective]

And finally with the 15/5/5/2/2 pipedream.

NO player has done that the last 25 years on a per 36 basis according to Basketball Reference. Not Jordan. Not Pippen. Not Kirilenko. Not Kidd. Nobody. Bledsoe is at 1.4 blocks per 36, so he might have a chance.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

It doesn't matter. He'll never blossom into a star. Lets drop it and worry about trade rumors.

greens value = trade rumor talk, buddy.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

You may be confusing Green's upside with what you want him to turn into. On offense his upside is 12-14 ppg. On defense his upside is what you're seeing. At best that makes him a third to fourth option on offense and the second or third best perimeter defender on the team. He's a three to four million dollar man, but certainly no Lee Majors. He will be 26 years old right after the end of this season, not sure why to expect a lot more?

i'd expect more if he get's center-pieced in atlanta with teague and horford.

[MR-Clutch]

Not when it's you guys having fantasy scenarios about what kind of player green is, or can become.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

greens stats of improvement would be assists, steals, and points. he could improve all those with more minutes and a good system.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Not when it's you guys having fantasy scenarios about what kind of player green is, or can become.

trying to speculate if ferry would bite on green as the major piece for a smith trade.

[objective]

I think the idea that Ferry would want to re-acquire his personal project is reasonable. But Green being something that hasn't happened the last 25 years at his peak I don't think is reasonable.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Who would we trade him for? Fab Melo? Chris Wilcox?

If we could get Fab Melo I'd be up for that. He's a bit goofy. Recently he sustained a concussion by hitting his head walking through a door at a South Dakota hotel room during a D-League road trip. But he does seem to be improving: Ever since Fab Melo had that monster triple double against the Erie Bayhawks on December 22nd, where he logged 15 points, 16 rebounds, and 14 blocks, Melo has turned his D-League season around.
Prior to that game, Melo was averaging 7.1 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game shooting 49% from the field.
After that game, Melo has been averaging 16.6 points, 8.1 rebounds, and 4.4 blocks, shooting 56% from the field.
14 blocks in a game even at the YMCA is damn impressive. I would say there is more upside there than Blair.

[BatManu20]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
Still many involved for Atlanta's Josh Smith, including Bucks, Nets, Celtics, 76ers, Wizards, others, sources say. Strong belief he's moved.

[Chinook]

Thanks for justifying you thinking, really respect that. Let me make a statement and then ask a question. Duncan, Ginobili and Parker all won at least one NBA title before they were 25 years old. Did they have more help than Danny Green has had the past two years? On a one to ten scale I think Green's upside is a 6 to 7 and I think that if anyone of the Spurs young players can lead the team it's Leonard.

At this juncture, I'd like to clarify that I don't think Green can be a star. I was just answering another poster's question. I think Green would have to become a player he's simply not right now to do that.

To answer your question, I would say Parker and Ginobili had more help than Green has had. Duncan circa 2003 was just as incredible as 2013 James, if not more so because of his position. Robinson was on his last legs, but he was still a good defender. They also had each other, Bowen and Jack, though obviously they weren't the same players as they'd become. Green isn't going to carry a team at any point like the Big Three, but I don't think Leonard is, either. Leonard is doesn't feel like a star to me. I see becoming the Al Horford of small-forwards: consistent boarderline all-star, really good salary but not max, great player, but not a great centerpiece.

So for Leonard to average 20/8/4/2/2 (which is pretty much what he'd have to average to be a star in my book), he'd need to add 7.1 points, 2.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists, -0.1 steals (yay, he's there) and 1.4 blocks to his per 36 numbers. Because his game doesn't have the same obvious fixable holes that Green's does, I'm less optimistic that he'll reach star status than I am that Green will reach great role-player status.

[Chinook]

Not close to realistic.

Just talking steals: Very few players average 2 steals a game. 2 this year. 2 in 11-12. 3 in 10-11. 2 in 09-10. 4 in 08-09. It just doesn't happen very often.

Then with blocks . . . you know how many guards averaged 2 blocks a game the since 02-03? ZERO.

Of all players since 02-03, how many have averaged 2 blocks and 2 steals? One, Gerald Wallace. He didn't come close to 5 assists per game either. And you can go back 20 years to 92-93 and there's no one else. Kirilenko never averaged 2 & 2 per 36.

Just ignoring blocks . . . how many players since 02-03 have averaged 15, 5, 5, and 2 steals a game?

Just seven. Paul (x2), Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Kidd, and Iguodala. All hall of famers except Iguodala . . . who didn't even qualify per36 for steals because he played 40 minutes a game. None of them had 2 blocks a game, Wade came closest with 1.3 in over 38 minutes per game.

Nine players are currently averaging 2 or more steals per 36 (including Leonard), and another 12 average at least 1.7. That could change, but it certainly doesn't see too far fetched in today's league. The blocks I'd probably agree with you on. That's really ambitious.


And finally with the 15/5/5/2/2 pipedream.

NO player has done that the last 25 years on a per 36 basis according to Basketball Reference. Not Jordan. Not Pippen. Not Kirilenko. Not Kidd. Nobody. Bledsoe is at 1.4 blocks per 36, so he might have a chance.

That's just an idiosyncratic argument. Who cares if players have averaged those exact numbers at over their careers? Take away a couple of assists and add a couple of points, and you have Green's estimated production if he can learn to finish. If he gets 17 points and three assists instead of 15 and five, I don't think that makes a difference. Also, if someone is just a half a point/assist/etc. away from reaching a mark, they really should be counted. As far as I'm concerned, Andre Iguadola has averaged 15/6/5/2/1 per 36 over his entire career.

A ceiling is not supposed to be incredibly realistic; it's not supposed to be what the player will achieve if he barely improves. Maybe Green's ceiling is a less-athletic but better-shooting Iguadola. Outside of assists, their per 36 numbers are pretty much the same.

[will_spurs]

Chinook, don't throw stuff around if you don't want to get called on it. Objective is right to say 2 steals per game or 2 blocks per game are completely unrealistic for Green. He'll never even sniff those numbers, not even during one hypothetical peak season.

Most people have an inflated view of which stats are considered likely for any given player. We have the same problem with people causally throwing around that some big men (prospects) could average a double-double, when the reality is that very few manage to do it over a season, let alone over a career. It's the same here.

I understand that when talking about "ceiling" we have to reach somewhat high, but we have to stay realistic as well. If Green could ever reach 15 & 5, even only that, even only on a per 36 min basis, that would already be nice. He's not even there per 36 this season (although he's close). And that's still a far cry from being an All-Star.

Finally I find it quite humorous that you can in one thread belittle Kawhi's potential to be a regular All-Star and in another defend Green's ceiling as a potential All-Star. The first statement is a LOT MORE likely to happen than the 2nd. And your target numbers for Kawhi to be an All-Star seem equally unrealistic to me. Noah is an All-Star with 11/10/4/1/2 per 36...

[exstatic]

If we could get Fab Melo I'd be up for that. He's a bit goofy. Recently he sustained a concussion by hitting his head walking through a door at a South Dakota hotel room during a D-League road trip. But he does seem to be improving: Ever since Fab Melo had that monster triple double against the Erie Bayhawks on December 22nd, where he logged 15 points, 16 rebounds, and 14 blocks, Melo has turned his D-League season around.
Prior to that game, Melo was averaging 7.1 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game shooting 49% from the field.
After that game, Melo has been averaging 16.6 points, 8.1 rebounds, and 4.4 blocks, shooting 56% from the field.
14 blocks in a game even at the YMCA is damn impressive. I would say there is more upside there than Blair.
Yeah, that's got "Spurs material" written all over it. :lol

[exstatic]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
Still many involved for Atlanta's Josh Smith, including Bucks, Nets, Celtics, 76ers, Wizards, others, sources say. Strong belief he's moved.

One team seems to be missing. Hmmm.

RC's Billy Bean trade phone call imitation is done. Everyone who was interested in whatever player RC is really interested are now chasing Josh Smith. :lol

[CGD]

One team seems to be missing. Hmmm.

RC's Billy Bean trade phone call imitation is done. Everyone who was interested in whatever player RC is really interested are now chasing Josh Smith. :lol

My thoughts exactly. Looks like the Wiz, bucks, and Cs took the bait. Wonder what RCs commission from Ferry is going to be.

[Bruno]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8956469/los-angeles-clippers-utah-jazz-talk-eric-bledsoe-paul-millsap-sources-say


Sources with knowledge of the situation told ESPN.com late Saturday there is a level of mutual interest between the Clippers and Utah Jazz in exploring a deal that would feature Bledsoe as the headliner in a trade package for Jazz forward Paul Millsap.

[Chinook]

Chinook, don't throw stuff around if you don't want to get called on it. Objective is right to say 2 steals per game or 2 blocks per game are completely unrealistic for Green. He'll never even sniff those numbers, not even during one hypothetical peak season.

Most people have an inflated view of which stats are considered likely for any given player. We have the same problem with people causally throwing around that some big men (prospects) could average a double-double, when the reality is that very few manage to do it over a season, let alone over a career. It's the same here.

I understand that when talking about "ceiling" we have to reach somewhat high, but we have to stay realistic as well. If Green could ever reach 15 & 5, even only that, even only on a per 36 min basis, that would already be nice. He's not even there per 36 this season (although he's close). And that's still a far cry from being an All-Star.

Finally I find it quite humorous that you can in one thread belittle Kawhi's potential to be a regular All-Star and in another defend Green's ceiling as a potential All-Star. The first statement is a LOT MORE likely to happen than the 2nd. And your target numbers for Kawhi to be an All-Star seem equally unrealistic to me. Noah is an All-Star with 11/10/4/1/2 per 36...

I didn't say it was wrong to argue it's unrealistic. I said that it makes very little difference to me to say something like, "He'll never average 2 steals a game; the most he'll ever average is 1.7." That's why it's idiosyncratic; it's based on little differences. I completely conceded that the blocks were an unrealistic expectation, as well as the assists. But I said he could be even better in other areas (like points) than I projected him to be, which in my opinion means he would still be a top-end role player.

And before critiquing me, you should read my posts more carefully: I specifically said Green would NOT be an all-star. I also said Kawhi could be an all-star (certainly an occasional one) but that I don't think he'll be a championship cornerstone. The numbers I projected for Green's ceiling should be Leonard's floor (minus the assists). I firmly believe he'll be good for a long time (hence why I bumped the COK thread a few days ago).

EDIT: And I don't think disagreeing with objective is in any way dismissing his (or her) opinion. I appreciate the stats provided to help me understand what I was projecting and how good Green would have to be to reach those goals. The fact that Iggy is the only player who is doing what I think Green could do is exciting, not discouraging.

Anyhow, I think we started to move toward a consensus on our disagreements before you jumped in.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I didn't say it was wrong to argue it's unrealistic. I said that it makes very little difference to me to say something like, "He'll never average 2 steals a game; the most he'll ever average is 1.7." That's why it's idiosyncratic; it's based on little differences. I completely conceded that the blocks were an unrealistic expectation, as well as the assists. But I said he could be even better in other areas (like points) than I projected him to be, which in my opinion means he would still be a top-end role player.

And before critiquing me, you should read my posts more carefully: I specifically said Green would NOT be an all-star. I also said Kawhi could be an all-star (certainly an occasional one) but that I don't think he'll be a championship cornerstone. The numbers I projected for Green's ceiling should be Leonard's floor (minus the assists). I firmly believe he'll be good for a long time (hence why I bumped the COK thread a few days ago).

EDIT: And I don't think disagreeing with objective (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663) is in any way dismissing his (or her) opinion. I appreciate the stats provided to help me understand what I was projecting and how good Green would have to be to reach those goals. The fact that Iggy is the only player who is doing what I think Green could do is exciting, not discouraging.

Anyhow, I think we started to move toward a consensus on our disagreements before you jumped in.

x2

so danny green at his best would look more like iggy than ray allen? i buy that. i was just curious what the geniuses would compare him to since ray allen was SOOOOO off.

so a potential iggy, sjax, blair, and this years 1st for smith?

i think that deal would free up enough cap space to even re-sign smith and splitter. i did the math in one of these trade threads. that's the deal i hope goes down.

imo, smith and splitter would come back at less than max. spurs would have a dynasty caliber team and i don't think either would walk away.

[DesignatedT]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/17/report-clippers-jazz-talking-bledsoe-for-millsap-trade/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[will_spurs]

EDIT: And I don't think disagreeing with objective (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663) is in any way dismissing his (or her) opinion.

I didn't say that either. I was just commenting re: your general stance in this thread. I agree you started to see the light partway through the discussion :)

I usually value your takes but thought they were a bit extreme (in both cases) this time (at least when you first expressed them).

Coming back to the thread, is Blair going to be traded or not?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

utah would be really smart to get bledsoe. the clipps would be smart to get millsap.

but i think the clipps should get a pick or something too. bledsoe is worth more than millsap.

[BackHome]

Why are we talking about Green who is a great bench player but will never be a starter for any other team then the Spurs or Bobcats? I thought this was about trades and not Fantasy Basketball?

[timvp]

I'd be thrilled if the Clippers trade Bledsoe for Millsap. The Spurs can defend Millsap. Bledsoe, though, hits the Spurs at their weakest possible spot (backup point guard [specifically, ballhandling and perimeter defense of the backup point guard])

[DPG21920]

It's pretty clear, especially after Woj's tweet, that the Spurs never really had an interest in Smith. As others have said, it appears they just did ATL a favor by dropping that rumor.

I dont see the Spurs really doing anything because there is not a huge need. Just moving Blair and thats about it.

[elemento]

I agree with tim

Bledsoe is a nightmare for us. It doesn't matter if it's Manu, Neal, Nando or Mills handling the ball in the 2nd unit. The dude gives SA a lot of trouble when he is on the court.

Millsap got owned by Boris last season. SA has no problem defending him.

[Bruno]

It's pretty clear, especially after Woj's tweet, that the Spurs never really had an interest in Smith. As others have said, it appears they just did ATL a favor by dropping that rumor.

Well, it's not as clear as that for me. Spurs being genuinely interested in Smith remains a legit possibility.

[elemento]

In the end, I think Blair will be moved for the rights of an Euro (stashed in Europe) or a 1st round pick swap.

[DPG21920]

Well, it's not as clear as that for me. Spurs being genuinely interested in Smith remains a legit possibility.

What tangible evidence have you seen that there is a legit interest? No team need, questionable fit, lack of assets in reality, contract questions, chemistry concerns and nothing outside of one little blurb about the Spurs and Josh Smith with no other credible info on that. Not to mention Woj not mentioning the Spurs after listing a lot of teams signals to me it was not a real interest. Could be wrong, but I am not seeing it add up.

[Seventyniner]

Well, it's not as clear as that for me. Spurs being genuinely interested in Smith remains a legit possibility.

I agree. Woj's tweet mentioning only Eastern conference teams, and many of those in the 7th-10th seed range, makes little sense to me. The Hawks are still a playoff team if they stand pat, and they definitely wouldn't want to trade their second-best player to a team that could knock them out of the top 8.

[Bruno]

What tangible evidence have you seen that there is a legit interest? No team need, questionable fit, lack of assets in reality, contract questions, chemistry concerns and nothing outside of one little blurb about the Spurs and Josh Smith with no other credible info on that. Not to mention Woj not mentioning the Spurs after listing a lot of teams signals to me it was not a real interest. Could be wrong, but I am not seeing it add up.

First, I disagree about your view on Smith. He would fill a need for Spurs both at SF and PF. And while there is some chemistry, contract and fitting concerns, he is a damn good player who could make Spurs significantly better.

Second, maybe you missed it, but Sam Amico also reported it:
http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/15/13/NBA-trade-buzz-Nets-get-set-for-deadline/msn_landing.html?blockID=864873&feedID=3725


San Antonio could emerge as a potential landing spot for Smith, according to an Eastern Conference GM. With Smith’s expiring contract, it is believed the Spurs wouldn’t have to surrender much in return — and that coach Gregg Popovich and stars Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili would be able to keep the sometimes-difficult Smith in line.

While it's possible that Amico is lying to the GM is saying it because of a blurb from Spears on Yahoo power ranking, I would say that both cases are unlikely.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Why are we talking about Green who is a great bench player but will never be a starter for any other team then the Spurs or Bobcats? I thought this was about trades and not Fantasy Basketball?

green could start for atlanta. ferry loves him. stephen jacksons expiring contract is very attractive. atlanta has a major defensive star. josh smith is not rj.

[objective]

That's just an idiosyncratic argument. Who cares if players have averaged those exact numbers at over their careers?

No, it is a truthful argument based on facts, those facts being stats.


Take away a couple of assists and add a couple of points, and you have Green's estimated production if he can learn to finish. If he gets 17 points and three assists instead of 15 and five, I don't think that makes a difference. Also, if someone is just a half a point/assist/etc. away from reaching a mark, they really should be counted. As far as I'm concerned, Andre Iguadola has averaged 15/6/5/2/1 per 36 over his entire career.

A ceiling is not supposed to be incredibly realistic; it's not supposed to be what the player will achieve if he barely improves. Maybe Green's ceiling is a less-athletic but better-shooting Iguadola. Outside of assists, their per 36 numbers are pretty much the same.

So we're rounding up on everthing? You can say that Iguodala's rounded up (and in one case doubled) equal whatever you want. The facts are that he never had the 15/5/5/2/1 in a single season. Let alone 15/5/5/2/2. And he's been an all-star and focal point of his team. And an all-defense 2nd teamer. If you think Green's ceiling is what Iguodala has been with better shooting, then okay. But better, and in some categories 4x better?


EDIT: And I don't think disagreeing with objective is in any way dismissing his (or her) opinion. I appreciate the stats provided to help me understand what I was projecting and how good Green would have to be to reach those goals. The fact that Iggy is the only player who is doing what I think Green could do is exciting, not discouraging.

My posts, related to Green, weren't just about Green. I think your gauge on stats is off and slanted towards unrealistic highs, even for potential ceiling highs. I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking you or anything like that, my reaction would be the same if somebody said that Baynes' ceiling was 20/20 per 36. That's never happened the last 50 years.

The fact that anyone getting 15/5/5/2/2 would be a Once-in-a-Lifetime season makes that clear. Danny Green's ceiling might be high to some, some might think his ceiling is really high . . . but singularly the greatest, unachieved season in 25 years?

Similarly this issue happens with Kawhi. Ignoring Kawhi as a player, Chinook's stated requirements for Kawhi being a star are skewed way too high on the steals and blocks. Players just don't get 2 & 2. One guy has the past 20 years, and he didn't get the assists. Drummond might be able to one day per 36. That's it.

Your star-requirements for Kawhi: 20/8/4/2/2. That's just to be a star. Nobody's done it per 36 minutes that played enough to qualify for leaderboards. Ever. In NBA history. Dr. J. came close, with 1.8 blocks. In the last 30 years, Pippen did it all except less than a block a game. Kawhi or anyone else doing it would have a season for the ages. And that's just to be a star?

I think re-setting your Steals & Blocks expectations for all levels (including ceilings) could be helpful. 1.5 and 1.5 is still hard per 36, but within reason. That's happened 20 times the last 10 years. There are more 20 & 10 rebound seasons than 1.5 steals and 1.5 blocks. Even 2.0 steals and 1.5 blocks has only been done twice per 36 the last 20 years, and one of those was only 16 minutes a game for Tractor Traylor of all people.

[BatManu20]

You guys make it sound like Danny Green is just another scrub and is easily replaceable. If we trade him, that leaves a huge hole at SG while simultaneously taking away our best 3-point threat. You guys expect Neal to move into a starting role? Would not be good. Kawhi isn't playing SG for us. Green has his flaws, sure, but we're a whole lot better with him than without him. If we could get Smith somehow without giving up Green and Tiago (Kawhi is off limits) then I'd be all for it, but that's unlikely, so I doubt the Spurs have a very good chance at bringing him in when there are other teams willing to give up more for him.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

BatManu20 with a starting line up of tony, kawhi, smith, timmy, splitter. manu and nando cover for danny. i believe in nando.

[Kidd K]

Players just don't get 2 & 2. One guy has the past 20 years

More than one has. David Robinson in 1992. Hakeem in '86 and '88-'91. But I guess to be technical, that's slightly over 20 years ago.

I agree with your point though, that expecting 2 blocks and 2 steals at the same time per game is a ludicrous expectation since barely anyone ever attains it. And certainly not with 5 assists either. Mainly, a center or PF, the just about only positions that ever get 2 BPG, rarely average 5 assists or 2 steals. Meanwhile, the SG and PG positions, which are the most likely to get 2 SPG or 5 APG, very rarely even get 1 BPG, much less 2.

For Leonard to become a "star", at least in terms of being a household name and borderline all star, not a perennial all star; I think 18/7.5/4/2/0.8 would be a reasonable number. A Luol Deng/Andre Iguodala type statline. That's his realistic ceiling imo, and if he gets there, I'll be happy. The points are probably asking for too much though. But hey, it could always be a Sean ****** type situation where he gets better every year, rather than flatten out after a few seasons like most do.

I think Leonard's capable of more rebounds than he's getting even right now tbh, and 16-17 PPG would be very solid for the current Spurs team. If Duncan and Manu are gone, then that number should probably be higher. More like 18-19 than 16-17.

[GB20]

BatManu20 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=33095) with a starting line up of tony, kawhi, smith, timmy, splitter. manu and nando cover for danny. i believe in nando.
:drool:

[Obstructed_View]

I would be glad to see Bledsoe leaving Clippers. He is a matchup nightmare for Spurs current roster.

Jordan's the one who plays like his namesake against the Spurs. Bledsoe's really good, but he's stupid. The Spurs had an easy time frustrating and taking him out of his game last year. A hot Clippers team worries me, but a hot Clippers team with Garnett instead of Jordan and Bledsoe does not.

[TD 21]

First, I disagree about your view on Smith. He would fill a need for Spurs both at SF and PF. And while there is some chemistry, contract and fitting concerns, he is a damn good player who could make Spurs significantly better.

Agreed. At this point, I wouldn't give up Splitter for him and I'd have never given up Leonard for him, but if they could get him for Jackson and some combination of non rotation players, overseas rights and draft picks (I realize there's no chance of that, I'm just saying), then his superior talent would supersede any concern about chemistry, contract and fit.


Whether it comes to fruition or not, props to elemento for bringing up a Bledsoe-Millsap trade weeks ago, in the trade thread in the think tank.

[Obstructed_View]

Bruno, the Spurs aren't going to give Smith a max contract, and you know there's one GM out there who's going to swing for the fences trying to save his job. Whether or not we agree that he's a good fit with the Spurs, what am I missing here?

[timvp]

San Antonio could emerge as a potential landing spot for Smith, according to an Eastern Conference GM. With Smith’s expiring contract, it is believed the Spurs wouldn’t have to surrender much in return

It's difficult to believe that first sentence when that second sentence doesn't make any sense. No one is going to land Josh Smith for cheap. I doubt the Spurs want to give up Splitter or Leonard for Smith. But outside of giving up one of those two, I don't think the Spurs have the assets to compete with other offers.

I'd be extremely surprised if Smith gets traded for anything less than a decent to good prospect and a draft pick that is closer to 20 than 30.

Smith being Dwight Howard's friend adds a lot to his value. A team could conceivably go after Smith hard if they believe it'll help their chances of landing Howard.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think they watched the NBA during the spurs championship years. You can't, I repeat, you can't compare Danny Green to Ray Allen based on three point percentage. Its a joke. I like Danny but the kid can't dribble or even make a layup. He's a product of kickouts and will not even be half the player Allen was in his prime.

^this. Ray Allen was one of the best players in the league for quite a long stretch. He shot 40% from three point range as the first option on his team; the guy the defense keyed on. He became more of a role-player from long range later in his career, but he was the best player on his team for ten years until he went to Boston.

[Obstructed_View]

Smith being Dwight Howard's friend adds a lot to his value. A team could conceivably go after Smith hard if they believe it'll help their chances of landing Howard.

A smart GM might make the case to Josh that he could take a bit less in order to throw money at Dwight. Then you could get Josh's salary more in line with what he's worth and have him lobby to get his friend to join up.

[Bruno]

Bruno, the Spurs aren't going to give Smith a max contract, and you know there's one GM out there who's going to swing for the fences trying to save his job. Whether or not we agree that he's a good fit with the Spurs, what am I missing here?

I don't think a GM will offer him a max contract. The new CBA, with the highly dissuasive luxury tax, makes it harder for a team to offer a max contract at a borderline all star.

[Richie]

Could we perhaps get involved in a 3 way deal involving Smith?

Smith to Mavs
Marion to Spurs
Danny Green, Bonner, OJ Mayo, Spurs 1st, Mavs 2nd to Hawks

[Bruno]

And Spurs can offer a attractive pick to Hawks for Smith.

A first round pick that is top 3 and top 15-30 from 2015 through 2018 and unprotected in 2019 would be a nice piece for the rebuilding Hawks. Given the age and/or mileage of the big 3, it's likely that Spurs end up as a lottery team in few years.

[Richie]

And Spurs can offer a attractive pick to Hawks for Smith.

A first round pick that is top 3 and top 15-30 from 2015 through 2018 and unprotected in 2019 would be a nice piece for the rebuilding Hawks. Given the age and/or mileage of the big 3, it's likely that Spurs end up as a lottery team in few years.

Is Smith really worth sacrificing the Spurs future for? We have one good piece going forward in Leonard who could maybe be a #2 option on a championship team, we could become a possible contender with only a couple high lottery picks.

[Bruno]

Is Smith really worth sacrificing the Spurs future for? We have one good piece going forward in Leonard who could maybe be a #2 option on a championship team, we could become a possible contender with only a couple high lottery picks.

Well, it depends how you value him. Personally, I'll do it only if Spurs are confident they would be able to re-sign him.

[BatManu20]

Could we perhaps get involved in a 3 way deal involving Smith?

Smith to Mavs
Marion to Spurs
Danny Green, Bonner, OJ Mayo, Spurs 1st, Mavs 2nd to Hawks

So you're suggesting we trade Danny Green, Matt Bonner, AND a 1st round pick for for Shawn Marion..? Are you kidding?

[Brunodf]

Could we perhaps get involved in a 3 way deal involving Smith?

Smith to Mavs
Marion to Spurs
Danny Green, Bonner, OJ Mayo, Spurs 1st, Mavs 2nd to Hawks
MArion is a Tosb and can't shoot

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think a GM will offer him a max contract. The new CBA, with the highly dissuasive luxury tax, makes it harder for a team to offer a max contract at a borderline all star.

I'd like to think nobody would, but I keep underestimating the stupidity of pro sports GMs. I've never seen anything in Josh's character to make me think he'd stick with the Spurs for a chance to win rings either. It's probably all academic; I don't think the Spurs would give up Splitter or Leonard to get him, and I think that's what it would require for Ferry to give him up.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Well, it depends how you value him. Personally, I'll do it only if Spurs are confident they would be able to re-sign him.

green, jax, blair, 1st for smith rental

green, jax, blair, bonner, 1st, future 1st for smith extended at less than max

i'd could see either

[Richie]

So you're suggesting we trade Danny Green, Matt Bonner, AND a 1st round pick for for Shawn Marion..? Are you kidding?

Marion is head and shoulders ahead of either Green or Bonner. Our 1st will likely be #30, not like we're giving up a lottery pick.

Our wing rotation of Kawhi/Manu/Jackson/Marion is about as elite defensively as you can get. Gives us endless players to throw at Westbrook, Durant, Wade and Lebron. Moving Kawhi to the 2 would give him a more expansive role in the starting unit that he doesn't get at the 3.

At first I thought it was too much, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

[Chinook]

Your post.

So for clarification's sake, I don't think ceilings are ever fully realized; they're meant to be slightly unobtainable goals. For example, if a player's ceiling is supposed to be 20/10, and he get 21/10, then I feel the projection was wrong. So I am okay with Green not actually reaching all of those goals (or any) so long as he's close in most categories. If a player averages 19.5 points and 9.8 rebounds, I am just fine calling him a 20/10 player. That doesn't mean that we have to agree on that being the proper distinction, but so long as we know what the other means, there isn't really a problem.

So if Green had a season along the lines of Iggy's average, I would consider him being one block short of meeting my projection. If you disagree, that's cool, but just know that rounding error doesn't concern me when talking about asymptotic ceilings. It's all about impact in my mind, not numbers. I'm sorry that we were on different wavelengths there.

Apply that concession to Leonard as well. He doesn't have to get above each of those categories for me to consider him a star. He just has to get close in most of those. Also, I don't care if he doesn't even get close to some of those goals if he gets higher totals in others. He has a few years where he gets 20 solid points (meaning more) and eight solid rebounds but only averages 2.5 assists and 1 block, I won't have any problem thinking that's star production.

In short, I think if Green could get ALL of the junk out of his game and become a significantly better passer, then he could post numbers like Iguadola. Conversely, Leonard would have to play as a more team-oriented Rudy Gay while keeping his scoring for me to consider him a star. That's because I only consider 5-7 players in the league stars. If you don't agree with that it's fine, too. Just replace "star" with "top 5-7 player" when reading my posts.

So I hope we understand each other better: I understand that surpassing (meaning meeting in your interpretation) my projections would put both Green and Leonard in too rare of company to be realistic, and I hope you understand that I don't hold my ceiling projections as hard guidelines that all have to be met. Your numbers don't lie, and I understand now why you were quick to critique me. Clearly, I was wrong on things like averaging 2/2 in blocks and steals being realistic. I'll never project those amounts again.

[DPG21920]

Well, it depends how you value him. Personally, I'll do it only if Spurs are confident they would be able to re-sign him.

For the deal you are proposing, why would you care if you can resign him or not. You aren't giving up anything of value and even a one year rental (assuming you believe in Josh Smith's basketball abilities) would help this year.

If you are only giving up Jax/Blair/Bonner/CoJo, it should be a no brainer regardless then.

[Samr.]

Why do I have the feeling that the Spurs wont trade Blair and/or Jackson before the trade deadline?

[BatManu20]

Marion is head and shoulders ahead of either Green or Bonner. Our 1st will likely be #30, not like we're giving up a lottery pick.


Our wing rotation of Kawhi/Manu/Jackson/Marion is about as elite defensively as you can get. Gives us endless players to throw at Westbrook, Durant, Wade and Lebron. Moving Kawhi to the 2 would give him a more expansive role in the starting unit that he doesn't get at the 3.

At first I thought it was too much, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

No way would I give up Bonner, a 1st round pick, and a 25 year old Green for a 35 year old Marion. I guarantee the Spurs would never make that trade either. They would rather keep this team intact than make a deal like that.

[Bruno]

For the deal you are proposing, why would you care if you can resign him or not. You aren't giving up anything of value and even a one year rental (assuming you believe in Josh Smith's basketball abilities) would help this year.

If you are only giving up Jax/Blair/Bonner/CoJo, it should be a no brainer regardless then.

We were talking about giving up a future lottery pick for Smith. It's something valuable.

[DPG21920]

Why do I have the feeling that the Spurs wont trade Blair and/or Jackson before the trade deadline?

I don't know about the other deals being discussed, but if the Spurs don't trade Blair it wont be for a lack of trying. They are trying to move. It just depends on whether or not they are moving him regardless and just take the best offer (whatever that may be) or if they value Blair enough and dont get an offer they like they just hold him then.

[Richie]

No way would I give up Bonner, a 1st round pick, and a 25 year old Green for a 35 year old Marion. I guarantee the Spurs would never make that trade either. They would rather keep this team intact than make a deal like that.

What is it exactly that is so valuable in that trade? Bonner isn't even in the main rotation, a #30 pick is almost certainly not going to be a player who can contribute before Duncan retires, and Green who is a talented player on a good contract but Marion is superior to him in almost every aspect. Marion can defend multiple positions, something which Green can't do, and he has experience at the highest level. Not to mention he won a title having to guard both Durant and Lebron on the Mavs run.

If we were looking at a pick in the low 20s I'd say it's definitely not worth it, but a #30 is very unlikely to be a player who can help us win.

[playblair]

^^ blair can easily be moved .................. multiple teams have expressed legit interest including the defending nba champs ....................
the fact that blair has not been traded shows the spurs see blair as an integral part of the playoff run................

[Obstructed_View]

^^ blair can easily be moved .................. multiple teams have expressed legit interest including the defending nba champs ....................
the fact that blair has not been traded shows the spurs see blair as an integral part of the playoff run................

That's it. Plonk.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

^^ blair can easily be moved .................. multiple teams have expressed legit interest including the defending nba champs ....................
the fact that blair has not been traded shows the spurs see blair as an integral part of the playoff run................

good lord i hope you're completely wrong.

[moisaenz]

Blair is going to be moved if the spurs get a decent deal. it is best for both parties.blair is not getting any minutes in the playoffs..

[CGD]

It's difficult to believe that first sentence when that second sentence doesn't make any sense. No one is going to land Josh Smith for cheap. I doubt the Spurs want to give up Splitter or Leonard for Smith. But outside of giving up one of those two, I don't think the Spurs have the assets to compete with other offers.

i don't think the sentences are mutually exclusive. Teams knowing that there is a strong possibility Smith leaves ATL may be offering players ATL isnt high on with long term deals. See the Celtics recent offer. I can see the Bucks wanting to move illysova in the same vein. The next best thing may be to retain as much as the cap relief from Smiths expiring deal, and get value out of the difference. The net difference if Jax is moved is about 3M. Under this framework I can see the Spurs putting together good value for 3M.

[elemento]

Spurs fans want Smith, but don't want to include Leonard or Splitter.

That's not gonna happen. At least Splitter has to be included. Plus, even if Smith doesn't get a max contract, he could easily get a Boozer type of contract. Do you guys really want to see SA giving Smith a 75m contract? I don't.

Count me out on the Smith bandwagon. I would only be ok with it if Atlanta accepts a BK type of deal (Hump+Brooks+1st / Jack+Cory+1st) as a rental. Other than that, I pass. I don't even think he is a good fit tbh.

[CGD]

^ I'm ok with a rental + his bird rights, if that's all we have to give up. Certainly wouldn't max him, but if the market sets a reasonable price for him this summer it'd be nice to have the option to match.

[Kawhi fan]

I don't see why the Spurs would bother moving Blair now! Unless he is part of a bigger deal, they aren't going to get back anything that will help this year's playoff run, so there isn't any need to move him before Thursday. At least if he is on the pine, he can be a safety net against an injury!

[BackHome]

If we can trade places with the Celtics first round I would do it in a heart beat......Baynes is good as Blair as far as insurance at this point.

[exstatic]

Spurs fans want Smith, but don't want to include Leonard or Splitter.

That's not gonna happen. At least Splitter has to be included. Plus, even if Smith doesn't get a max contract, he could easily get a Boozer type of contract. Do you guys really want to see SA giving Smith a 75m contract? I don't.

Count me out on the Smith bandwagon. I would only be ok with it if Atlanta accepts a BK type of deal (Hump+Brooks+1st / Jack+Cory+1st) as a rental. Other than that, I pass. I don't even think he is a good fit tbh.

If you're thinking of Smith as anything other than a rental, you might as well include Splitter. There is no way in hell SA would re-sign both of them this summer. The league also has to sign off on the trade.

[hater]

^^ blair can easily be moved .................. multiple teams have expressed legit interest including the defending nba champs ....................
the fact that blair has not been traded shows the spurs see blair as an integral part of the playoff run................

the fuck...

[exstatic]

I don't see why the Spurs would bother moving Blair now! Unless he is part of a bigger deal, they aren't going to get back anything that will help this year's playoff run, so there isn't any need to move him before Thursday. At least if he is on the pine, he can be a safety net against an injury!

You're thinking short term. Blair himself will not help on the playoff run. If you can get even a second rounder, maybe you turn it into another DeColo or Blair or Green.

[Kawhi fan]

You're thinking short term. Blair himself will not help on the playoff run. If you can get even a second rounder, maybe you turn it into another DeColo or Blair or Green.

Agreed! But don't see the benefit of doing it before the trade deadline!

[Mel_13]

Agreed! But don't see the benefit of doing it before the trade deadline!

Can't do it after the deadline.

[Kawhi fan]

Can't do it after the deadline.

Off season?

[Mel_13]

Off season?

Only in a sign and trade. Blair will be a free agent this summer.

[Kawhi fan]

Only in a sign and trade. Blair will be a free agent this summer.

Touche!

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I don't see why the Spurs would bother moving Blair now! Unless he is part of a bigger deal, they aren't going to get back anything that will help this year's playoff run, so there isn't any need to move him before Thursday. At least if he is on the pine, he can be a safety net against an injury!

blair sucks so bad on rebounds. he's pretty useless on defense too, beside a few loose balls. sometimes addition is made by subtraction. with blair gone, pop has to play baynes or run extra minutes for bonner or diaw. anything is better than blair because he sucks so bad on rebounds and defense. heck with blair gone, the spurs get a look at 10 day contract d leaguers. that's better than blair at this point! at least there's a future in it.

[playblair]

the blair is a horrible rebounder myth is pure hatred ...................

if blair is a horrible rebounder than splitter & daiw are atrocious..................

[Kawhi fan]

blair sucks so bad on rebounds. he's pretty useless on defense too, beside a few loose balls. sometimes addition is made by subtraction. with blair gone, pop has to play baynes or run extra minutes for bonner or diaw. anything is better than blair because he sucks so bad on rebounds and defense. heck with blair gone, the spurs get a look at 10 day contract d leaguers. that's better than blair at this point! at least there's a future in it.


the blair is a horrible rebounder myth is pure hatred ...................

if blair is a horrible rebounder than splitter & daiw are atrocious..................

It is true.. & false! haha

He is a good offensive rebounder and sat in the league's top 20 for his first 2 seasons, but defensively he sucks. He can't box out properly and that is an area we need some extra strength!
I think a LOT of people on here are overly harsh on Blair. He has good hands and can make a few shots that most bigs don't have, like floaters and fast layups. I can see value for many teams to pick him up and use him for just his strengths, but for the Spurs, he is not what we need!

[DrunkTXLabrat]

blair can't rebound over real bigs. the only chance he has is boxing out or getting away with a push off.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

he pushes off waaaay too much

[jesterbobman]

Do you guys realize that there's a reason that Blair has value even though he isn't in our rotation?

Relative to TD, Splitter and Diaw Blair isn't very good. But they aren't the only bigs in the NBA, and Blair being a net negative in +/- models doesn't mean he has no value. Replacement level guys are normally thought of as ~-3.5 per 100 possessions, and Blair being a -1 means he has a bunch of value.
e.g., from http://talkingpracticeblog.com/2013/01/06/individual-player-value-ipv-ratings/

182

- DeJuan Blair

-0.82




Being the 182nd best player in the league(An approximate value in reality, so many guys close in value and standard dev not reported) means he's good, and probably worth well more than his salary. A perfectly reasonable point to make in the Blair trade is that he's not as good as our other bigs, but can help another team.

[LittleCriminal]

With the All-Star crap out if the way, #45 shall be traded by noon. Hopefully.

[Splits]

^this. Ray Allen was one of the best players in the league for quite a long stretch. He shot 40% from three point range as the first option on his team; the guy the defense keyed on. He became more of a role-player from long range later in his career, but he was the best player on his team for ten years until he went to Boston.

Ray Allen spent 96-07 as the primary scorer on shit teams missing the playoffs 7 out of 11 years and only shot over 40% from distance in 4 of those 11 seasons. He averaged around 22pts on 18 FGA per game. Not to take anything away from him, he's had a solid career and is one of his generation's premier shooters, but let's not pretend he's a first ballot HOF or something. There are plenty of young guys in the league with upside and breakout potential given the right circumstances, but who wants to spend the first 11 years of your career playing for nothing but personal accolades?

[MANUNG-Ginobili]

trade blair....it's just so disgusting to see him even if he is only sitting on the bench...duh!

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Ray Allen spent 96-07 as the primary scorer on shit teams missing the playoffs 7 out of 11 years and only shot over 40% from distance in 4 of those 11 seasons. He averaged around 22pts on 18 FGA per game. Not to take anything away from him, he's had a solid career and is one of his generation's premier shooters, but let's not pretend he's a first ballot HOF or something. There are plenty of young guys in the league with upside and breakout potential given the right circumstances, but who wants to spend the first 11 years of your career playing for nothing but personal accolades?

this.

i got eaten alive for comparing green to allen. imo green is all the defender allen is, and almost all the 3 shooter. of course allen was beastin' at the age green is now. they have two completely different paths. allen was drafted to be a star. green is a spurs gem.

if green is showcased, and he would be if he's in a josh smith deal. he'll wind up looking a lot like allen, minus the playmaking ability. is that really so much more different than iggy minus the dunks?

[Leetonidas]

Are you guys really comparing Ray Allen to Danny Green? They are good three point shooters and play SG, that's pretty much where the comparison ends. Ray used to be able to get to the rim a lot too, it's not like he was just a spot up three point shooter, while DG routinely fumbles the ball away and bricks wide open layups.

[Mel_13]

Come on guys. Ray Allen is a 10-time All Star and a lock for the HOF. Danny Green is a decent role player on a decent contract.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Danny Green to Ray Allen?? Yeesh..

[DrunkTXLabrat]

danny can do that same ugly stuff neal does inside the 3 point line. tbh i'd rather have danny pullin that stuff, than neal. at least danny can play defense. that's got allen written all over it.

but i already conceded to the iggy comparison. the pre-defeated poster in me just had to agree with splitman.

[elemento]

You guys have to be kidding me to compare Danny Green with Ray Allen.

It's ok to be a homer sometimes, but this comparison is beyond ridiculous.

Ray Allen is the definition of how a SG has to play. He is a HOF.

One of the best of all-time playing off the ball and one of the best shooters of all-time. Please, re-watch the Spurs x Sonics series to see what Ray Allen can do. And that wasn't even the best year of Allen.

[Kermit]

Not to take anything away from him, he's had a solid career and is one of his generation's premier shooters, but let's not pretend he's a first ballot HOF or something.

Hey man, congrats. You've won today's prize for the most retarded sentence typed on the Internet.

[MR-Clutch]

HAHA yes thank you everyone.

[Bill_Brasky]

Oh wow :rollin

[Obstructed_View]

Ray Allen spent 96-07 as the primary scorer on shit teams missing the playoffs 7 out of 11 years and only shot over 40% from distance in 4 of those 11 seasons. He averaged around 22pts on 18 FGA per game. Not to take anything away from him, he's had a solid career and is one of his generation's premier shooters, but let's not pretend he's a first ballot HOF or something. There are plenty of young guys in the league with upside and breakout potential given the right circumstances, but who wants to spend the first 11 years of your career playing for nothing but personal accolades?

Danny Green fucking dreams of having the ball skills and scoring ability of Ray Allen. That Sonics team that he led was pretty good. At no point in his career did he average 22 points on 18 FGA per game. You know who did? Gary Payton. I don't know if he's a hall of famer or not (basketballreference says he is), but Danny green has zero fucking chance to be Ray Allen. If he can actually show up in a postseason and hit his shots he has a chance to be Jaren Jackson.

When Ray went to Boston and his job was to be a defender, he quickly became one of the better defenders in the league. He was light years above the abortions the Spurs were putting out on the floor in that position until Kawhi Leonard came along, and that includes Danny Green.

[Obstructed_View]

this.
...was a lunatic post.


i got eaten alive for comparing green to allen.
Not nearly as much as you deserve.


imo green is all the defender allen is,
On Green's best day, he's slightly better than Ray was when Ray didn't give a shit about defense. Ray Allen in a Celtic jersey is no contest.


and almost all the 3 shooter.
Percentage wise, Danny Green had one season that was comparable to Ray's. Danny and Ray both shot 234 threes last year. Ray hit four more than Danny did. Ray was 36 years old and firmly into the role-player phase of his career. That was the first time Danny Green shot over 22 threes in a season. When Danny Green shoots 650 threes in a season and hits 41% of them, then maybe we can start to have a conversation about his upside.


if green is showcased, and he would be if he's in a josh smith deal. he'll wind up looking a lot like allen, minus the playmaking ability.
Minus the playmaking ability, minus the ability to dribble, minus the ability to score in anything other than a catch-and-shoot situation. One could argue that the Spurs have been showcasing Danny Green since he arrived by hiding his flaws and turning him into a decent role player. He's still the third or fourth best shooting guard on the team.


is that really so much more different than iggy minus the dunks?
If you suggested Iguodala without the athletic ability, you'd probably be laughed at because of the assists. Green isn't likely to average 6 assists in his career, though it's much more likely than his becoming Ray Allen.

[benefactor]

:lol

What a hilarious turn this thread has taken.

[Chinook]

While Green is shooting at a higher percentage from three than Allen has averaged over his career and Allen is best remembered for this three-point shooting, I don't think it makes sense to compare Allen and Green. Allen was a "star" in terms of his impact. Allen's had some mammoth years in terms of win shares, and the 4.3 difference in PER may seem small, but it's really not when looking at a career as long as Allen's.

Subjectively, Green isn't as good of a shooter as Allen is, not even from three. Prior to this season, Allen's attempts were generally harder than Green's attempts, pull-ups instead of spot-ups. Green is good in the Spurs' offense at shooting from a lot of different places along the three-point line, but he's not very good if his feet aren't set when he catches the pass. Credit the Spurs' system for making those numbers look close. We don't even have to go over why Allen is better inside the arch. So if Green gets better as shooting in more situations (like Neal is) and learns to finish better, then he could be closer to Allen, but really, he'll never have the same physical skills needed to be that good of a shooter. There's no shame in that, though; very few players in league history have/had Allen's gifts.

But Danny Green can still make being Danny Green something that players of the next generation work for. Green should be able to match Allen's DWS/season stats. (In fact, if you only count the last two seasons, he's already ahead of Allen there.) Green makes too many mistakes to be considered a really good defender now, but I don't think achieving Allen's defensive level is out of Green's reach. Green should be able to get up to Allen's defensive peak (3.42 DWS/season from 2007-2012) at some point in his career. Anthony Parker, to whom I've seen Green compared, had a two-year stretch were he averaged 6.35 DWS/season. And Parker was 31 and 32 during those seasons, so Green has a few years to grow.

[Kuestmaster]

really? comparing an all time great, the best 3pt shooter in history, with a nba workman like danny green? some people need basketball lessons.

[timvp]

I don't understand why most Spurs fans either wildly overrate Danny Green or wildly underrate Danny Green. As Parker would say, we need to find a happy middle. In my eyes, Green is a very solid seventh or eighth man that is signed to a more than reasonable contract who happens to start in order to add firepower to the bench. He's a streaky shooter who, thankfully, runs more hot than cold. He can't do much else on offense but he realizes that and typically sticks to his strengths and doesn't need a lot of touches. He's a long, versatile defender who usually tries hard on D but has limited upside due to a lack of quickness and and the absence of great natural instincts. Intangibles-wise, he seems to be a plus.

I don't think his upside is much higher than his current production. He's in a perfect spot for his skillset and there honestly isn't much room for him to grow. But it's also important to note just how weak the shooting guard position is right now in the NBA. Despite Green's warts and lack of untapped potential, he still has a really good case for being a top 20 shooting guard in the NBA. That alone makes him valuable, especially relative to his salary.

[TheCerebral1]

I don't understand why most Spurs fans either wildly overrate Danny Green or wildly underrate Danny Green. As Parker would say, we need to find a happy middle. In my eyes, Green is a very solid seventh or eighth man that is signed to a more than reasonable contract who happens to start in order to add firepower to the bench. He's a streaky shooter who, thankfully, runs more hot than cold. He can't do much else on offense but he realizes that and typically sticks to his strengths and doesn't need a lot of touches. He's a long, versatile defender who usually tries hard on D but has limited upside due to a lack of quickness and and the absence of great natural instincts. Intangibles-wise, he seems to be a plus.

I don't think his upside is much higher than his current production. He's in a perfect spot for his skillset and there honestly isn't much room for him to grow. But it's also important to note just how weak the shooting guard position is right now in the NBA. Despite Green's warts and lack of untapped potential, he still has a really good case for being a top 20 shooting guard in the NBA. That alone makes him valuable, especially relative to his salary.

Pretty much how I feel. He has value and I don't think he needs to be moved. Everyone has flaws or things to improve on in their game. He does a lot of things well. His salary is beautiful considering what he can provide when he's "on" with his shooting.

[letmk]

Ray Allen spent 96-07 as the primary scorer on shit teams missing the playoffs 7 out of 11 years and only shot over 40% from distance in 4 of those 11 seasons. He averaged around 22pts on 18 FGA per game. Not to take anything away from him, he's had a solid career and is one of his generation's premier shooters, but let's not pretend he's a first ballot HOF or something. There are plenty of young guys in the league with upside and breakout potential given the right circumstances, but who wants to spend the first 11 years of your career playing for nothing but personal accolades?

In no way am I comparing Green to Ray Allen, but this post got it right. Allen does contribute to Celtics' championship run in 08, but now it seems he was rated over contemporary players like AI3, and that's ridiculous.

[SupremeGuy]

Ray Allen spent 96-07 as the primary scorer on shit teams missing the playoffs 7 out of 11 years and only shot over 40% from distance in 4 of those 11 seasons. He averaged around 22pts on 18 FGA per game. Not to take anything away from him, he's had a solid career and is one of his generation's premier shooters, but let's not pretend he's a first ballot HOF or something. There are plenty of young guys in the league with upside and breakout potential given the right circumstances, but who wants to spend the first 11 years of your career playing for nothing but personal accolades?Get out of here with your logic; I prefer to use emotions and memories when comparing players instead of those things called stats!

[DesignatedT]

I haven no problem with Greens game. If there was an area I would like to see him work on it would be to try harder and take more pride in trying to be a "lockdown" defender. He seems like he's going through the motions a little too much defensively at times and that tends to bother me. Green is a 3 pt specialist and can't really do anything else with the ball. He isn't afraid to shoot and is going to get up shots. They either go in or they don't and that doesn't bother me. He's never going to be an elite defender but it would be nice to see him be more aggressive on that end. That way he isn't totally useless if his shot isn't falling. (cough gary neal cough)

[TVI]

I don't understand why most Spurs fans either wildly overrate Danny Green or wildly underrate Danny Green...
Timvp, the voice of sanity in a knee jerk world.

[Kermit]

Get out of here with your logic; I prefer to use emotions and memories when comparing players instead of those things called stats!

So, pull some stats and logic out of your ass and explain why Ray Allen isn't a first ballot HOF. I'll wait.

[Chinook]

I don't think his upside is much higher than his current production. He's in a perfect spot for his skillset and there honestly isn't much room for him to grow.

You don't think Green's scoring would increase a good deal if he doesn't miss 2-3 easy layups a game? I think between that, not leaving his man as much and continuing to expand his assist game, he still has some room to grow.

[Obstructed_View]

Danny Green misses 2-3 easy layups a game because they aren't easy layups for him. A guy who's not very good at making layups isn't going to have a ton of trade value. Frankly, the only way to increase his scoring would be to play him more minutes, and that takes minutes away from Ginobili and Jack.

[Bruno]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20130218/nba-trade-deadline/?sct=hp_wr_a2&eref=sihp


A number of teams are interested in Smith's ability to impact the game at both ends and in transition as an athletic scorer and playmaker. But he'll be an expensive hire who will be demanding a long-term investment.

Most of the biggest names known to be available this week are impending free agents. The Jazz could choose to move center Al Jefferson and/or power forward Paul Millsap, who are both on expiring contracts. The Jazz have younger, cheaper replacements in Derrick Favors (a future star, they hope) and Enes Kanter.

"I think they'll trade one of them because they can't keep both,'' a rival general manager said. "But I'm never sure which one will go. One day I think it's going to be Jefferson, and the next day it will be Millsap.''

A trade for Millsap or Jefferson will carry the same responsibility as any deal for Smith -- the acquiring team must protect the investment by being confident in its ability to re-sign him in the offseason.


The Timberwolves could seek to improve for next year by dangling former No. 2 pick Derrick Williams.

[cheguevara]

green is a one trick pony that will probably dissapear in the playoffs. he makes multiple bonehead mistakes a game. wake the fuck up


why the fuck is Ray Allen's name in this thread??? :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=10622

[wildbill2u]

To get back to reality and trades. Reality says the FO and Pop aren't going to change out any of our first 6/8 players while we are sporting the best record in the league, even with some serious injury time out to TD and Manu. Especially since it takes a year or two to fit into the system (Corporate Knowledge). So even if you got someone with skills, they probably wouldn't dramatically affect the team this year.

The remainder of the bench has shown just enough to keep while their flaws are such that I doubt anyone is calling, looking for them because they can't live without them. Jackson might be someone who could be moved for his expiring contract, but what would you really get in return. Probably not much talent and again, it would be a loss in team corporate knowledge.

[slick'81]

lol green and allen comps

[timvp]

You don't think Green's scoring would increase a good deal if he doesn't miss 2-3 easy layups a game?
No offense intended, but that's simply not accurate. Green only averages ~1.5 shots per game at the rim, so he doesn't miss 2-3 layups a night, obviously. And, actually, he's now 14 for his last 18 at the rim, which has pushed his percentage on shots at the rim on the season up to a respectable 55.7%. For someone of Green's build, coordination and athleticism, being an average finisher for a shooting guard is probably a bit too ambitious ... but let's say that's a reasonable ceiling. Considering that shooting guards on average shoot ~63% on the rim, that means to reach that goal Green would need to turn six of his misses into makes.

On the season, yeah his scoring would increase ... from 10.19 points per game to 10.42 points per game. So not exactly a ton of room for improvement on offense by converting more shots at the rim, even if we assume Green can become a league average finisher for a SG, which is dubious in itself.


I think between that, not leaving his man as much and continuing to expand his assist game, he still has some room to grow.I don't think Green leaves his man out of laziness or forgetfulness or anything like that. It's because he doesn't have great instincts regarding when to help, when to fake help, when to rotate early, when to stick to his man at all costs, etc. Those type of instincts would have probably kicked in at this stage of his development. There's a chance his natural instincts improve ... but it's not something that happens often. For example, Bonner is one of the smartest players in the NBA (if not the smartest), and his instincts never developed beyond special ed level. Kawhi, on the other hand, had very good instincts on Day 1 even though he had no summer league, no training camp or any other way to learn previously.

It's not unreasonable to say Green may become a better passer but then you have to start pondering diminishing returns. If Green is asked to pass more, that will mean there is less talent around him, which translates into less open space for him to operate. Right now he's in a great spot where he's asked to knock down open shots while anything else is a bonus. If you put more on his plate, his efficiency is likely to decrease about the same rate as his production increases. Thus, I believe Green at this point is basically WYSIWYG.

Four years at North Carolina, a year as a starter with the Spurs and another half-year in the books ... I think this is what we can expect out of him. Personally, big picture-wise, I'm thrilled. To turn a scrap heap signing into a top 20 player at his position is outstanding work by the front office.

IMO, Green's ceiling as a player:

16 points per 36
6 rebounds
3.5 assists
1.8 steals
1.2 blocks
.620 TS%

If he reaches those numbers, he probably becomes a top 10-12 shooting guard, which would be fantastic.

[Chinook]

The bulk of your post.

No offense taken. Thanks for the correction. I guess Green's misses at the rim look so bad that they multiply in my head. He might drive more if he were better at finishing, though, which also could contribute to him being a better scorer.

I wonder how Green managed to have the defensive impact he had last year if he doesn't have at least average defensive instincts. He certainly seemed to have a bit more one-on-one success then, but I thought he did a lot of little things right that he just isn't doing this year.

Maybe I am just imagining things, but he seems to be trying to pass more recently. When he's forced to drive, he often tries to draw the help and get the ball to a big man near the rim. Sometimes it's worked, and sometimes it hasn't, but a lot of misses seem to be the result of poor timing between Green and his target. Also, if Green were a bigger threat to score at the rim, he might be better at this. I think Green learning how to pass can only be a good thing. Even though Parker is the main ball-handler, it would be nice to see Green also be able to drive and kick so the Spurs could better attack zone defenses.


IMO, Green's ceiling as a player:

16 points per 36
6 rebounds
3.5 assists
1.8 steals
1.2 blocks
.620 TS%

If he reaches those numbers, he probably becomes a top 10-12 shooting guard, which would be fantastic.

Then we don't really have that different of projections for Green. I thought (and still sort of think) Green could average in the 4s in assists, especially in a post-Big Three era, I was more conservative with the points and rebounds projections. I also had him getting 2 blocks and steals, but that was too ambitious in hindsight. That looks like Andre Iguadola's per 36 career averages, which feels about right to me subjectively as to Green's potential impact.

[Chinook]

Incidentally enough, timvp what statline do you think Leonard would average at his ceiling? If I missed a post in which you've said this, I apologize.

[ace3g]

not sure on this writer but:


According to my sources, Clippers view only the San Antonio Spurs, not the Oklahoma City Thunder, as their main obstacle out west. Clipper executive Andy Roeser has told David Stern on many occasions that he expects the ‘Clips’ to be in San Antonio for the conference finals.

http://blognbasketball.com/2013/02/source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs

[SpursRock20]

not sure on this writer but:



http://blognbasketball.com/2013/02/source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs

Good. Clippers should knock out OKC for us and then we can knock out the Clippers.

IMO
Spurs > Clippers
Thunder > Spurs
Clippers > Thunder

Doesn't make sense in a mathmatical sense, but matchup-wise this is how it is.

[Obstructed_View]

not sure on this writer but:



http://blognbasketball.com/2013/02/source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs

Wouldn't really make sense for the Clippers to consider themselves the odd man out. It wouldn't shock me to see them pass OKC.

[racm]

not sure on this writer but:



http://blognbasketball.com/2013/02/source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=source-clippers-pursuing-trade-to-beat-spurs

Makes sense. They beat OKC 3-1 last season, and while they lost the past two meetings Chris Paul didn't play in the game @LAC.

[Strategic]

I hate to see Danny Green trashed on every other thread. He is what he is. I would be surprised, and a little disappointed, if the Spurs traded anyone in the top ten of the rotation. I would really only care to see Blair traded for a draft pick, and then use the roster spot to either pick up a seasoned veteran or give one of the Toro mobile bigs a chance to guard in the NBA.

[Samr.]

Incidentally enough, timvp what statline do you think Leonard would average at his ceiling? If I missed a post in which you've said this, I apologize.

Good question. Curious to know the answer too.

[playblair]

DeJuan Blair ‏@DeJuan45 (https://twitter.com/DeJuan45) Wowwww!



................:stirpot:

[DesignatedT]

Probably has something to do with that long ass flight to Sacramento.

[playblair]

^ tweet was deleted fans asked if blair was traded ...............

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

^ tweet was deleted fans asked if blair was traded ...............

Is that you, Grizz?

Or are you his stalker?

Otherwise, how the fuck would you know?

:lmao

[ace3g]

still shows that tweet there on his twitter feed.

[BatManu20]

I'd just trade Blair and a 2nd round pick to PHX for Jermaine O'Neal. He's still averaging 7 pts, 5 boards, and 1 block a game, and can shoot the mid range jumper. Yea he's 34 but this is just for insurance and another big body to throw against OKC, LAC, and hopefully, MIA. Wouldn't play many minutes anyways. Couldn't hurt.

[BatManu20]

................:stirpot:

My guess is he was reacting to something that happened in the Pitt-Notre Dame game that's being played on ESPN right now. (Pittsburgh is his alma mater for those of you who have been living under a rock)

[timtonymanu]

Pitt is also playing Notre Dame right now. Maybe Blair is reacting to a certain play. His tweets have always been pretty vague.

EDIT: What BatManu20 said.

[Samr.]

How come SJax massive expiring contract never seems to get mentioned in trade rumors? As a player, he doesn't appear all that valuable, and especially with the new luxury tax penalties under the new CBA I'm sure there's plenty of teams wanting to take on his expiring deal for some cap space.

[Libri]

It's only Blair's reaction after seeing a Whataburger commercial.

[DesignatedT]

How come SJax massive expiring contract never seems to get mentioned in trade rumors? As a player, he doesn't appear all that valuable, and especially with the new luxury tax penalties under the new CBA I'm sure there's plenty of teams wanting to take on his expiring deal for some cap space.

It has. Most notably in the Al Jefferson and Josh Smith rumors.

[benefactor]

303691894951649280

[benefactor]

303692659690729473

[ace3g]

303693270368780288

[Richie]

What assets do Phoenix have apart from picks? Gortat maybe, otherwise they're pretty horrible.

Would love if they decided to dump Scola. Bonner + Blair + 1m (for Bonners contract next year) for Scola. Could maybe throw in a 1st to sweeten it if they wanted. Not sure they would want to dump his contract though.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Minnesota has been aggressive in offering multiple first-round picks for established talent, league sources tell Y!

[Mel_13]

What assets do Phoenix have apart from picks? Gortat maybe, otherwise they're pretty horrible.

Would love if they decided to dump Scola. Bonner + Blair + 1m (for Bonners contract next year) for Scola. Could maybe throw in a 1st to sweeten it if they wanted. Not sure they would want to dump his contract though.

Scola can't be traded until July.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Teams trying to trade for J.J. Redick surveying cost to re-sign him in summer. If Bucks move a starting guard, he's a major target for them.

[BatManu20]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Minnesota has been aggressive in offering multiple first-round picks for established talent, league sources tell Y!

They know that if they need someone to help Love or he might demand a trade. He's already made it clear he's unhappy with the current roster.

[spursmartyr]

Makes sense. They beat OKC 3-1 last season, and while they lost the past two meetings Chris Paul didn't play in the game @LAC.

Yep, that's why it makes sense to push for the #1 seed so LAC can take down the FThunderfags & we can destroy LAC in the WCF & curbstomp MIA in the finals.

[Richie]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Minnesota has been aggressive in offering multiple first-round picks for established talent, league sources tell Y!

Could we maybe get involved in a 3-way trade with us landing Kirilenko?

[DPG21920]

None of the players (Smith or Al Jefferson) really make sense from a reality perspective IMO. I think that is why you won't see anymore prominent "insert name" to Spurs rumors heading toward the deadline. No issues with me as this team is really damn good if healthy.

[therealtruth]

I don't think the Clippers need to panick. They weren't at full strength, Blake Griffin couldn't hit an outside jumper to save his life, and Deandre Jordan had no post moves.

[racm]

Could we maybe get involved in a 3-way trade with us landing Kirilenko?

AK47 is one of the players I wouldn't mind moving SJax for. Versatile, a bit injury prone, but doesn't do a lot of wrong on the court.

[BatManu20]

Marc Stein: Latest deadline rumble: Boston exploring its Josh Smith options. The prob: Can't do it w/out Pierce. Just can't see Ainge sending PP to ATL (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html) Twitter @ESPNSteinLine (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)

Marc Stein: KG ain't waiving no-trade clause to go to ATL. So Celts would have to part with iconic PP to get J-Smoove. (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html) So can't happen w/out more teams Twitter @ESPNSteinLine (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html)

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) One more: In Josh Smith derby, several teams believe Suns are determined for deal after missing on Eric Gordon and Rudy Gay in past months.

[BatManu20]

Hmm things are starting to pick up here in the last couple days per par. I'm interested to see what PHX does. JJ Hickson seems like a hot commodity right now. Brooklyn or Milwaukee seem most likely to land Smith.

[BatManu20]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) One more: In Josh Smith derby, several teams believe Suns are determined for deal after missing on Eric Gordon and Rudy Gay in past months.

They can offer him a max contract this summer, not sure why they'd give up pieces for him, unless they really just want his bird rights. PHX is going about rebuilding the wrong way though imo. Investing a ton of money in Smith makes them a fringe playoff team at this point, and improves them by a few wins at best. That puts them in NBA purgatory. They should stay put and most likely end up with a high draft pick this year.

If it does happen, Gortat, Dudley, and Jermaine O'Neal or Telfair will likely be the pieces to be moved along with possibly even a draft pick.

[ace3g]

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS (https://twitter.com/KBergCBS) Trade Buzz: Why teams are proceeding with caution at the deadline. #NBA (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NBA&src=hash) http://cbsprt.co/11RQCSG (http://t.co/eCuaQstE)

[exstatic]

They can offer him a max contract this summer, not sure why they'd give up pieces for him, unless they really just want his bird rights. PHX is going about rebuilding the wrong way though imo. Investing a ton of money in Smith makes them a fringe playoff team at this point, and improves them by a few wins at best. That puts them in NBA purgatory. They should stay put and most likely end up with a high draft pick this year.

If it does happen, Gortat, Dudley, and Jermaine O'Neal or Telfair will likely be the pieces to be moved along with possibly even a draft pick.

PHX is as lost as TOR. They both keep grasping at marginal players, like a drowning swimmer grasping at anything that floats.

[ace3g]

Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard) OKC aggressively shopping PG Eric Maynor. Asking price is high. Phoenix looking to move Sebastian Telfair to clear PT for Kendall Marshall.

Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard) Toronto in need of backup PG; could be landing spot for Telfair or Minny's Luke Ridnour.

Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard) In talks with ATL for Josh Smith, Wizards have said all but 3 players available: J Wall, B Beal & Nene