Parker > cpFlop

[whitemamba]

cp is tony parkers bitch, parker doesnt get enough credit imo, he should be considered best PG in the league tbh

[midnightpulp]

Not buying until he proves he can do it in the playoffs. Parker's had us "convinced" before that this was the year he finally evolved into a superstar capable of carrying a team through a playoff series against a contender. And he's always disappointed. Every time.

[Killakobe81]

Not buying until he proves he can do it in the playoffs. Parker's had us "convinced" before that this was the year he finally evolved into a superstar capable of carrying a team through a playoff series against a contender. And he's always disappointed. Every time.

Leading the Finals sweep doesnt count? Sure Tim was still the real MVP of that team but Parker led then that FINALS against s potential GOAT

[BatManu20]

Parker is the most underrated player of the past 10 years. Guy is the best PG in the league right now and gets very little love. But whatever, he doesn't mind, and I don't either as long as we keep winning.

[scanry]

Leading the Finals sweep doesnt count? Sure Tim was still the real MVP of that team but Parker led then that FINALS against s potential GOAT

Bruce was the true MVP of that finals tbh.

Tim was the best player the earlier 3 series.

[Spurs_Be_Beastin']

church.

[timvp]

Not buying until he proves he can do it in the playoffs. Parker's had us "convinced" before that this was the year he finally evolved into a superstar capable of carrying a team through a playoff series against a contender. And he's always disappointed. Every time.

1. I agree that TP being a No. 1 option on a championship team is still a big question mark. He's playing damn well but I don't know if he's physically capable of reaching the LeBron, Prime Duncan, Prime Shaq level.

2. The OP was talking about who is the best PG. What contender has CP3 defeated in the playoffs?

3. Parker was the best player on the Spurs in 2007 vs. the Suns. His Game 1 performance probably was the most important performance of the entire playoffs that year for the Spurs in retrospect. The Suns were probably the 2nd best team in the NBA, so it sounds to me like that fits your criteria.

4. This is the first time I've ever though TP is the best PG in the league. Right now, it's not really debatable.

5. Being the best PG in the league in February doesn't mean anything so, yeah, still a long ways to go.

[Brunodf]

Leading the Finals sweep doesnt count? Sure Tim was still the real MVP of that team but Parker led then that FINALS against s potential GOAT

TP was just the 3rd best player in that series tbh

[TacoMeatJackson]

Lil dawg be ballin'.

[TDMVPDPOY]

TP was just the 3rd best player in that series tbh

he fkn stole duncan fmvp fuck him

duncan still got his stats that series, dont know why he got robbed...

[mercos]

It will be very interesting to see what the rest of the media has to say on the subject after Charles Barkley's comments. Tonight's performance was pretty eye opening.

[Bill_Brasky]

Not buying until he proves he can do it in the playoffs. Parker's had us "convinced" before that this was the year he finally evolved into a superstar capable of carrying a team through a playoff series against a contender. And he's always disappointed. Every time.

Doesn't matter how good he is, at the end of the day he's a PG.

[midnightpulp]

1. I agree that TP being a No. 1 option on a championship team is still a big question mark. He's playing damn well but I don't know if he's physically capable of reaching the LeBron, Prime Duncan, Prime Shaq level.

2. The OP was talking about who is the best PG. What contender has CP3 defeated in the playoffs?

3. Parker was the best player on the Spurs in 2007 vs. the Suns. His Game 1 performance probably was the most important performance of the entire playoffs that year for the Spurs in retrospect. The Suns were probably the 2nd best team in the NBA, so it sounds to me like that fits your criteria.

4. This is the first time I've ever though TP is the best PG in the league. Right now, it's not really debatable.

5. Being the best PG in the league in February doesn't mean anything so, yeah, still a long ways to go.

You'd take his 32 and 8 with 5 TOs over Duncan's 33 and 16 and 3 blocks? After that game, Parker was somewhat inconsistent. He followed up that game with 13 points on 5-14 shooting. And in the most important game of the series (game 5), he scored 11 points on 5-13 shooting.

That series is Parker's playoff career in a nutshell, and very much symbolizes my issue with him. Great for one game. Mediocre for the next, or even the next two. Great again. Then back to mediocre. For the Spurs to have any chance at winning the West and beating one of the top contenders, he's going to have to produce a consistent 25 points per game on a solid percentage over an entire series. He can't tease with 30 points in one game and then follow up with 15 the next.

And the ability to maintain that kind of consistency is what typically separates the superstars from the stars.

[midnightpulp]

Leading the Finals sweep doesnt count? Sure Tim was still the real MVP of that team but Parker led then that FINALS against s potential GOAT


Leading the Finals sweep doesnt count? Sure Tim was still the real MVP of that team but Parker led then that FINALS against s potential GOAT

Yeah. Tony beasted against the likes of Boobie Gibson and Damon Jones.

When he can do it against OKC, the Heat, or even the fuckin' Lakers (a franchise he always seems to shit himself against) if they sneak into the 8th, then I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon.

Until then, it's all regular season sound-and-fury signifying nothing.

[timvp]

And the ability to maintain that kind of consistency is what typically separates the superstars from the stars.

Well, yeah, championship caliber superstar is a damn high bar. Right now, the only two players in the league who I would put on that level are LeBron and Durant. (And even Durant has me unsure at times since he lets Westbrook do so much of the leading without ever correcting his bad habits.) Can Parker reach that level? Probably not.

Two questions because I'm curious:

1. Is there a point guard in recent history who you think qualifies as a "superstar"? Personally, I'm not sure one does since Magic, tbh.

2. What players in the league do you consider to be superstars?

[El Jefe]

1. Is there a point guard in recent history who you think qualifies as a "superstar"? Personally, I'm not sure one does since Magic, tbh.


Jason Kidd circa 2002-2003? Closest I can think of.

[midnightpulp]

Well, yeah, championship caliber superstar is a damn high bar. Right now, the only two players in the league who I would put on that level are LeBron and Durant. (And even Durant has me unsure at times since he lets Westbrook do so much of the leading without ever correcting his bad habits.) Can Parker reach that level? Probably not.

Two questions because I'm curious:

1. Is there a point guard in recent history who you think qualifies as a "superstar"? Personally, I'm not sure one does since Magic, tbh.

2. What players in the league do you consider to be superstars?

Yep. Not many PG superstars. Ironically, it's probably the most important position in basketball but also the one that has the least impact, since point guards are typically the smallest players on the court and just can't affect the game like the best wings and bigs.

I, too, think Lebron and Durant are the only two players who meet that superstar criteria. The type of player who can will an unwilling team to a playoff series victory against a contender. I know it's unfair to ask that of Parker, considering his position, but I'd settle for him being a "fringe" superstar, since I am hopeful that Duncan and Manu can still contribute at a high level. If the Spurs can just get a solid 23 and 8 from Parker against the Thunder (or the Heat) then they'll have a chance. And what I mean by "solid" is a consistent 20 to 25 point effort each and every game, with maybe a "step-up" 30-35 point game included. If Parker does the whole 30 points here, 12 points there routine, the Spurs don't stand a chance against those teams.

[Sean Cagney]

Not buying until he proves he can do it in the playoffs. Parker's had us "convinced" before that this was the year he finally evolved into a superstar capable of carrying a team through a playoff series against a contender. And he's always disappointed. Every time.

When has CP3 ever blown through he playoffs and won shit? Seriously question.
Yeah. Tony beasted against the likes of Boobie Gibson and Damon Jones.

When he can do it against OKC, the Heat, or even the fuckin' Lakers (a franchise he always seems to shit himself against) if they sneak into the 8th, then I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon.

Until then, it's all regular season sound-and-fury signifying nothing.TP was huge againt LA in 03 and 04 quite a few games he beasted! He always did well against LA because they had No PG, you show there you have no clue what you are talking about because he usually shoed up against LA.

[whitemamba]

parker really is under rated, seems like he slides under the radar somehow, but if he goes down theres trouble for SA, when everyone else went down in their last stretch, duncan, kawhi, etc.. someone remind me but spurs were 6-1 i cant remember.

[DAF86]

parker really is under rated, seems like he slides under the radar somehow, but if he goes down theres trouble for SA, when everyone else went down in their last stretch, duncan, kawhi, etc.. someone remind me but spurs were 6-1 i cant remember.

Spurs won in Chicago without the big three.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Jason Kidd circa 2002-2003? Closest I can think of.

superstars dont beat their wives...

[whitemamba]

Spurs won in Chicago without the big three.

they put together a solid few wins without ginobli leonard or duncan.. parker carried them

[DAF86]

they put together a solid few wins without ginobli leonard or duncan.. parker carried them

Parker didn't play in Chicago, that's what I meant.

[TDMVPDPOY]

When has CP3 ever blown through he playoffs and won shit? Seriously question.TP was huge againt LA in 03 and 04 quite a few games he beasted! He always did well against LA because they had No PG, you show there you have no clue what you are talking about because he usually shoed up against LA.

dude didnt adjust his game when phil jackson close the lanes from his penetration, he is as much responsible as duncan or whoever didnt bother to show up during those laker dominance years...

[whitemamba]

Parker didn't play in Chicago, that's what I meant.

o yeah, impressive team win, but thats 1 game u know

[Sean Cagney]

dude didnt adjust his game when phil jackson close the lanes from his penetration, he is as much responsible as duncan or whoever didnt bother to show up during those laker dominance years...

DO NOT ever point out Duncan there bro.... I can see what you are talking about with Parker at times, but they clogged the lane! Coaching should have helped some there to free him up! Duncan usually showed up for battle, do not go there with him bro! He was there alot of times till the bitter end.

[TDMVPDPOY]

o yeah, impressive team win, but thats 1 game u know

nothing impressive if drose isnt playing man, wins against teams with no elite players at ur position playing or injured is nothing to boast about....

yes a win is a win, but h2h you want to play them and outplay them

[DAF86]

o yeah, impressive team win, but thats 1 game u know

Pop's system allows for the team to remain highly competitive for short (and not so short) periods of time no matter who's out, this has been proven over and over again over the years.

[whitemamba]

Pop's system allows for the team to remain highly competitive for short (and not so short) periods of time no matter who's out, this has been proven over and over again over the years.

credit to pop as well, his system is solid. but i like how he tells the players even when they are up 25 to play like they are 10 down.. u dont see many coaches talkin like that

[whitemamba]

nothing impressive if drose isnt playing man, wins against teams with no elite players at ur position playing or injured is nothing to boast about....

yes a win is a win, but h2h you want to play them and outplay them

well bulls are a non issue either way without d rose, but the point that daf was makin was that spurs were missin their big 3 and still got the w

[TDMVPDPOY]

well bulls are a non issue either way without d rose, but the point that daf was makin was that spurs were missin their big 3 and still got the w

if u have a strong structured system and good chemistry you can beat teams when ur team has no superstar, look at teh bulls last season when rose went down and they started to continue winning games without him..

it begs the question if good team structure can win games, then why most teams/orgs arent doing it? u dont need superstars to be competitive...

[spurraider21]

:lol criticizing parker for not being as good as lebron or prime duncan...

[whitemamba]

if u have a strong structured system and good chemistry you can beat teams when ur team has no superstar, look at teh bulls last season when rose went down and they started to continue winning games without him..

it begs the question if good team structure can win games, then why most teams/orgs arent doing it? u dont need superstars to be competitive...

bulls tanked after rose went down...didnt philly beat them in the playoffs? the only team i thought didnt really have that "superstar" player and had a chance was memphis last year.. but they have leveled off imo

[midnightpulp]

When has CP3 ever blown through he playoffs and won shit? Seriously question.TP was huge againt LA in 03 and 04 quite a few games he beasted! He always did well against LA because they had No PG, you show there you have no clue what you are talking about because he usually shoed up against LA.

His career average against the Lakers in the playoffs is 16 points on 41 percent shooting. And yeah, he did beast against LA in '04. The first two games. Then Phil packed the paint, taking away his driving lanes, and he shit himself.

Parker has not been historically good against the Lakers. He's had a few good games, but never managed a dominant, or even very good, performance for an entire series.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the only chance parker to be on that level of superstar PG is to be a hero volume scorer with high efficiency,

nash 2nd mvp is a good example, high efficiency and relative good stats

yet i dont see why parker cant win mvp or be in the discussion as a superstar if his carrying the burden of the scoring load of the spurs...even that scrub iverson was mvp one time being a volume scorer than being ur traditional pass first mentality pg...

[TDMVPDPOY]

His career average against the Lakers in the playoffs is 16 points on 41 percent shooting. And yeah, he did beast against LA in '04. The first two games. Then Phil packed the paint, taking away his driving lanes, and he shit himself.

Parker has not been historically good against the Lakers. He's had a few good games, but never managed a dominant, or even very good, performance for an entire series.

thabo says hi to parker for making a name for himself shutting him down

[Kidd K]

Inb4 Latarion Milton tries to pretend Parker is barely a top 10 PG, and only because a couple PGs are injured right now.

[Bynumite]

Steve Blake > All PG's... FACT.

[Brazil]

cpflop is the closest thing to a superstar PG leading a team to win a ring imho. His game and dominance are more fitted than TP's game to achieve that.
Saying that TP is clearly under rated, some spurs fans consider he is not the best pg in his team and hate him for no obvious reason except for timvpdpoty who basically consider that tp stole a final mvp to tim duncan like it is fault nba gave this recognition to him.

I agree with midgnight on the fact he is a fringe superstar if you consider a superstar is going to get his numbers no matter what you throw at him but as already mentioned if the point is to say that TP is not 2011 dirk, 2006 wade, 2012 lebron... there is nothing to be ashamed of.

Now the most amazing stuff about TP is that dude is improving his game every year, he is working his ass off to get better, listen his coach, respect the franchise player (he recently said again that this team will be tim's team until he retires), gives everything he has during a game (he run like a beep beep all over the floor on a night basis and go inside challenge the big boys) and has a humble approach of the game. He should be a fan favorite and he is clearly right now one of the best quality / cost balance of the nba.

[K-State Spur]

cpflop is the closest thing to a superstar PG leading a team to win a ring imho. His game and dominance are more fitted than TP's game to achieve that.

If by "closest" you mean conference semis.

[Brazil]

If by "closest" you mean conference semis.

I mean he is the one who has the tools to do it not saying he will

[Latarian Milton]

it's not parker's fault you guys expect him to carry the team, dude is not the right guy that you can count on to step up at big times and there's a reason the french national team is such a failure despite having those NBA players. you're gonna need duncan to trim a few years off his mileage in order to get sort of a serious push for the championship this year tbh

[Clipper Nation]

Let's be real, Parker has been very fortunate to have Pop, Duncan, and Manu during his career.... CP3 is carrying the worst coach in the league to a top 3 record in the West, I strongly doubt the Clippers would be anywhere near as good with TP instead of CP3...

[Pelicans78]

The Spurs go as far as Duncan and Manu take them. Not Parker.

[jsandiego]

The amazing part is TP9 is doing all of this within our system. What would his stats be if he were the man on a marginal team where he could get volume shots? 25-30ppg? 9-10apg?

This team is amazing.

[Brazil]

The Spurs go as far as Duncan and Manu take them. Not Parker.

not this year silly you

[callo1]

The Spurs go as far as Duncan and Manu take them. Not Parker.

That hasn't been true for three years.

[callo1]

Let's be real, Parker has been very fortunate to have Pop, Duncan, and Manu during his career.... CP3 is carrying the worst coach in the league to a top 3 record in the West, I strongly doubt the Clippers would be anywhere near as good with TP instead of CP3...

At the same time, that has hurt him as far as numbers/recognition go...it works both ways. TP has had to defer more.

[Pelicans78]

That hasn't been true for three years.

Yes it has which is why they haven't won it all.

[Pelicans78]

not this year silly you

Of course it is. Parker won't beat Miami or OKC. They need Duncan and Manu to go off.

[look_at_g_shred]

Tp on another level this year. Watch out!

[D-Wade]

Overreaction as usual. While I will admit the Spurs play better defense than last year and their young players Green + Kahwai are a year older... I won't be convinced until I see them in the playoffs.

The ball was moving great but they were also on fire yesterday against the Clips. Happened in a game last season at Miami. Everything went in. Barkley said the Spurs have no weaknesses last year and is quick to praise them again this year.

But when a team plays them physical and stifles their execution, let's see what happens.

[Sean Cagney]

His career average against the Lakers in the playoffs is 16 points on 41 percent shooting. And yeah, he did beast against LA in '04. The first two games. Then Phil packed the paint, taking away his driving lanes, and he shit himself.

Parker has not been historically good against the Lakers. He's had a few good games, but never managed a dominant, or even very good, performance for an entire series.

If those stats are correct I can see your point when the packed the lane! When they tried to cover him though with FISHER he would go off lol, but yes after 03 and after 04 first two games they would pack the lane to stop him. I remember some regular season games he got them too, but that was always because Fisher and otherwise they never had a good PG on D at all. They have a bad D PG now as well and NO PHIL to strategize like that in a series so I would worry a little less. Parker historically has ROASTED NASH! Go look at the series they had, he lit him up! So what does this Spurs now have to do with 04? No Shaq, NO PHIL and Nash out there on D.

[sook]

parker has been on a tear lately. I would take CP3 over him and think CP3 is the better player, but parker this season > CP3

[Brazil]

Of course it is. Parker won't beat Miami or OKC. They need Duncan and Manu to go off.

because you think that the spurs have a chance if Parker don't go off against OKC and the Heat ?

[TDMVPDPOY]

because you think that the spurs have a chance if Parker don't go off against OKC and the Heat ?

so how come he didnt?

[Brazil]

so how come he didnt?

because he sabotaged the team

[Darth_Pelican]

The only way to fairly compare CP3 and TP is to put each one in the other's shoes. TP has had the luxury of playing with 2 HOF's and much deeper teams, whereas the best players that CP3 has played with in his entire career was David West, a young underdeveloped Tyson Chandler, and now a couple of stunt men in LA. In 2007, CP3 took a team with Morris Peterson and a 50 year old Peja in the starting lineup and no bench at all to a game 7 against a much more talented Spurs team. If Tony Parker were on the Hornets that year and CP3 were on the Spurs, do you think that series would have even been close? CP3 also took a team full of scrubs to a game 6 against a Lakers team that consisted of Kobe, Pau, and Bynum. Would TP have done the same? How many championships would the Spurs have if they had CP3 in place of TP, and how many would TP have if he were with the Pelicans and Clippers instead of the Spurs? How good would CP3's numbers be if he had HOF talent in the starting lineup with him for his entire career, and how would TP do if he had to play with scrubs his entire career and the defense got to focus on just him every night?

[TDMVPDPOY]

The only way to fairly compare CP3 and TP is to put each one in the other's shoes. TP has had the luxury of playing with 2 HOF's and much deeper teams, whereas the best players that CP3 has played with in his entire career was David West, a young underdeveloped Tyson Chandler, and now a couple of stunt men in LA. In 2007, CP3 took a team with Morris Peterson and a 50 year old Peja in the starting lineup and no bench at all to a game 7 against a much more talented Spurs team. If Tony Parker were on the Hornets that year and CP3 were on the Spurs, do you think that series would have even been close? CP3 also took a team full of scrubs to a game 6 against a Lakers team that consisted of Kobe, Pau, and Bynum. Would TP have done the same? How many championships would the Spurs have if they had CP3 in place of TP, and how many would TP have if he were with the Pelicans and Clippers instead of the Spurs? How good would CP3's numbers be if he had HOF talent in the starting lineup with him for his entire career, and how would TP do if he had to play with scrubs his entire career and the defense got to focus on just him every night?





the only HOF on the spurs is duncan, ginoboli is just another enigma that has costs the spurs so many times that its questionable he can be replaced....

[Killakobe81]

The only way to fairly compare CP3 and TP is to put each one in the other's shoes. TP has had the luxury of playing with 2 HOF's and much deeper teams, whereas the best players that CP3 has played with in his entire career was David West, a young underdeveloped Tyson Chandler, and now a couple of stunt men in LA. In 2007, CP3 took a team with Morris Peterson and a 50 year old Peja in the starting lineup and no bench at all to a game 7 against a much more talented Spurs team. If Tony Parker were on the Hornets that year and CP3 were on the Spurs, do you think that series would have even been close? CP3 also took a team full of scrubs to a game 6 against a Lakers team that consisted of Kobe, Pau, and Bynum. Would TP have done the same? How many championships would the Spurs have if they had CP3 in place of TP, and how many would TP have if he were with the Pelicans and Clippers instead of the Spurs? How good would CP3's numbers be if he had HOF talent in the starting lineup with him for his entire career, and how would TP do if he had to play with scrubs his entire career and the defense got to focus on just him every night?





Fair points, but early on all we heard is was the Clips were the deepest team in the NBA. And Blake had improved etc. So now the Spurs are the better team? Chauncey and Grant are now healthy (but old) both are fringe bordeline HOF candidates. I would argue both are No ...but a Finals MVP makes a strong argument plus he had a a MVP caliber year the next. Grant was the poor man's Lebron pre-injury ... and with his college resume I think he may get in ... both of PArker's HOF team-mates are past their primes ...

[Slutter McGee]

Yall do realize that a little homerism is ok. Parker is the best point guard in the league.

Slutter McGee

[TDMVPDPOY]

Fair points, but early on all we heard is was the Clips were the deepest team in the NBA. And Blake had improved etc. So now the Spurs are the better team? Chauncey and Grant are now healthy (but old) both are fringe bordeline HOF candidates. I would argue both are No ...but a Finals MVP makes a strong argument plus he had a a MVP caliber year the next. Grant was the poor man's Lebron pre-injury ... and with his college resume I think he may get in ... both of PArker's HOF team-mates are past their primes ...

spurs chimp roster, if they were that good a few of them wouldve been t raded...just 1 dimensional players who fit into the system and knowing their roles, the system makes them look better than they actually are....

clippers roster is all talent top to bottom, but they have no system in place and rely so much on iso plays....if those guys were open for trades, ppl would be calling for them....

[benefactor]

The Spurs go as far as Duncan and Manu take them. Not Parker.
If we are talking championship contenders, I would place equal importance on all three.

[whitemamba]

Bump tbh.

[TDMVPDPOY]

you know whats interesting even if this clown wins another ring

ppl will still have cp3 up on the all time PG lists top10 ahead of him with nothing to show for it

[whitemamba]

you know whats interesting even if this clown wins another ring

ppl will still have cp3 up on the all time PG lists top10 ahead of him with nothing to show for it

As much as i dislike parker, i was campaigning for him as the best PG in the league.. def in front of cp