Tiago Splitter: Leader?

[Solid D]

There was a bit of an odd lineup on the floor in the 2nd quarter of the Spurs - Clippers game. Nando (1), Danny (2), Jack (3), Matt (4) and Tiago (5).
Danny Green entered the offense and as the Spurs went through their progression of screens and cuts, Bonner and Splitter set up in the high post and Danny hesitated for a split second. Tiago looked at the defense and directed Danny to pass to Matt. When Danny did as directed, the Tiago set up a nice screen eliminating both Lamar Odom and Grant Hill, so that Green could get a return pass for a wide open wing 3...which he nailed.

This was just one example of the progress that Tiago has made with the Spurs as one of the quiet leaders on the team. There have been many times this year where Tiago appeared to be a real strength or backbone for the Spurs, especially when one or more of the big 3 were sitting out. He knows the system well and I believe he, now, feels like an integral part of the fabric of the team. Not so his first 2 years...and for good reason.

What say you? Is Tiago Splitter a (quiet) leader, because of his experience and court savvy?

[EJFischer]

No. He's an increasingly effective center who now knows his role, which makes him a crucial element in a structured offense. But I wouldn't call him a leader. Only Tim, Tony, and Manu fill that role with any consistency.

[Cry Havoc]

I noticed that last night too. I also noticed that he's getting a feel for when his team is struggling and needs him to step up his game.

He's really becoming accustomed to being a staple of this offense. I think he might not be able to be THE leader with Tony in his prime, but he could be one of the team's go to players down the stretch. He's really improved that much, to the point where I think he's one of the best big men in the game, both offensively and defensively. It's awesome to see and he fits this system perfectly. Definitely going to keep an eye on how Tiago interacts with his teammates while sitting on the bench tonight @ Oracle.

[Solid D]

Yeah. It's more subtle. It's a matter of the way he communicates now at both ends. It appears to be more non-verbal communication...but he hasn't always done that with this team. He's always been professional but he is certainly more confident.

[PingPong]

Being the one with higher b-ball iq in this lineup, leading flows naturally. But when sharing the court with the Big Three and their big ego, he will suit in a minor rule. That's absolutely natural.

[Poolboy5623]

I'd say it's about time...think if pop had given him pt earlier in his career, how much farther along would he now be? With that said, I'm enjoying watching tiago play. I believe the teams playoff success relies on health and splitter..

[timvp]

Yeah, Splitter shows some leadership skills particularly when he's out there with a bench unit. He overrules the backup point guard on playcalls at times and he becomes vocal when the defense attempts a gimmick (zone, traps, etc.).

I know a lot of us were frustrating that Splitter didn't play more minutes earlier in his career but, the way it played out, Splitter has been able to take his time in growing into a leadership role. Now he's totally comfortable. Could Pop have hurried that transformation by playing him more in the past two season? Maybe ... but maybe not. Leadership growth and getting comfortable is usually something that just takes calendar time, especially when you're talking about non-stars.

[therealtruth]

Yeah, Splitter shows some leadership skills particularly when he's out there with a bench unit. He overrules the backup point guard on playcalls at times and he becomes vocal when the defense attempts a gimmick (zone, traps, etc.).

I know a lot of us were frustrating that Splitter didn't play more minutes earlier in his career but, the way it played out, Splitter has been able to take his time in growing into a leadership role. Now he's totally comfortable. Could Pop have hurried that transformation by playing him more in the past two season? Maybe ... but maybe not. Leadership growth and getting comfortable is usually something that just takes calendar time, especially when you're talking about non-stars.

Pop made a mistake with Splitter. He chose Bonner/Blair over him.

[timvp]

Pop made a mistake with Splitter. He chose Bonner/Blair over him.

I didn't say he didn't. The question was whether Pop could have sped up Splitter reaching his inner basketball nirvana by giving him more playing time the last two seasons. I think it's possible but far from assured. Things like adjusting to the country, learning what makes his teammates tick, understanding what Pop wants from him and conforming to the NBA lifestyle probably aren't areas where earlier playing time would have substantially helped matters.

[Brunodf]

No.

[Capt Bringdown]

Maybe Pop was playing eleventh-y dimension chess with Splitter's development, or maybe not. Seems to me that there's more evidence for "not," given that Splitter was a kind of an after-thought or even last resort until this year.

[Mel_13]

Maybe Pop was playing eleventh-y dimension chess with Splitter's development, or maybe not. Seems to me that there's more evidence for "not," given that Splitter was a kind of an after-thought or even last resort until this year.

I know some people are wedded to their agendas, but that is simply not true.

[Chinook]

I think the Spurs are full of players who could be leaders on other teams. They all have high BBIQs (even Blair is above average), and they know exactly how to run their system. It's great that Splitter helps orchestrate the offense in an unselfish way.

In other news: How did everyone feel about Green playing with the bench? I liked it, personally. If Green can make plays consistently, he and De Colo might be able to do a good enough job to allow Manu to start.

[boutons_deux]

"question was whether Pop could have sped up Splitter"

Tiago already carried a heavy, perhaps, the heaviest load on his other teams. Pop screwed up, bad.

[PingPong]

"question was whether Pop could have sped up Splitter"

Tiago already carried a heavy, perhaps, the heaviest load on his other teams. Pop screwed up, bad.



"This is the NBA, not your euroleague, kid." - Pop's military style of coaching.

:king :pop:

[spurraider21]

I'm always almost always inclined to give Pop benefit of the doubt... but it was evident since game 3 of the Memphis series that Splitter needed a bigger role

[JingleJangleJingle]

they don't call him master splitter for nothing

[capek]

What say you? Is Tiago Splitter a (quiet) leader, because of his experience and court savvy?

He's definitely stepping into that role when he's playing with the bench unit. It's been great to observe actually. Makes me feel a lot more confident when Tony/Timmy/Manu are not on the court. It's been one of the joys of this season to watch Tiago flourish as a starter. MIP in my eyes (though I don't watch much NBA outside of the Spurs, so what do I know). As has been mentioned, the comfortableness, familiarity with the system, and knowing he's a big part of the team now that he's starting has really gotten him engaged this season. What stands out most to me, well think of it this way. You know those word collages, that pictorially aggregate the most frequently used words in an article or articles? Well, if you were to create one of those out of all the posts about Tiago on this forum written during his first two years, it would look something like:

play him moreSOFTinjury prone

But since he's been starting, you'd never use those words to describe him. He's revealed a level of toughness nobody thought he possessed prior to this season. That's a really impressive development. It's impressive on its own terms, but also because it was so unexpected imo

[Russo21]

Tiago = Most Improved Player? MIP Do they still give that award lol?

[biskvito]

thread derailed

edit: making him a starter was a smart move, he's another player when starting, even if he plays less minutes overall

[Brunodf]

Tiago = Most Improved Player? MIP Do they still give that award lol?
:nopeOnly thing he improved is minutes per game.

[mystargtr34]

Have to disagree with timvp... Tiago should have been playing and starting from the outset. Every man and his dog knew Tiago was by far the second best big on the team and a top 5 player. Pop made a huge mistake. No way the Spurs get bullied and muscled in the first round by Memphis with Tiago alongside Tim playing 30 minutes a night.

I dont even want to thnk about what might have happened after that if he was playing the minutes he is now.

[Libri]

I think Tiago can at times be a silent leader. An example is the play mentioned by the OP. IMO, here are the reasons why for this particular occasion.

-Splitter is much older than Green and De Colo.
-Splitter is a first stringer compared to Bonner and Jackson.
-Even though this is Tiago's third season, he has a lot of experience playing professional ball in Europe.
-He's a frequent contributor to the team.
-He knows the play like the back of his hand.
-He feels comfortable with his teammates and knows that they won't take it the wrong way if he needs to direct them.

[TampaDude]

Splitter is a baller! Pop, please play him more!

[Mugen]

It's not like Tiago was a young guy coming out of HS or college. He was a seasoned pro similar to Manu when he entered the league. Even when Manu got hurt in his rookie year, Pop gave him another opportunity and was a key contributor in the playoffs. I have little doubt that Tiago would have been able to do the same had he been afforded the same chances by Pop his rookie year.

Pop made a huge mistake with Splitter when he entered the league. Tough to spin it any other way tbh.

[PingPong]

I'd like to see a tandem Splitter-Scola with those kids instead of Bonner.
They have great chemistry, both are experienced and have natural leadeship. Would be an interesting thing to see in NBA.

[Capt Bringdown]

I know some people are wedded to their agendas, but that is simply not true.

Pop's obtuse reluctance and stubbornness to pair TD & Splitter is well-known and commented on. As is Pop's panicky record of inserting Splitter into playoff series only after the repeated failings of the turd towers.
Pop is a great coach. But even great coaches make colossal mistakes. There's no "agenda" behind such an assessment.

[Poolboy5623]

I think we can put to bed the "Splitter has an outside shot" talk, no? That airball was ugly..he needs to stay in the painted area or he'll get put back in the dog house:-(

[therealtruth]

In other news: How did everyone feel about Green playing with the bench? I liked it, personally. If Green can make plays consistently, he and De Colo might be able to do a good enough job to allow Manu to start.

I think Pop has to do this. Can't wait till game 5 again and then try to figure it out. That's not saying DG will choke again but there's no need to put that pressure on him.

[TJastal]

It's not like Tiago was a young guy coming out of HS or college. He was a seasoned pro similar to Manu when he entered the league. Even when Manu got hurt in his rookie year, Pop gave him another opportunity and was a key contributor in the playoffs. I have little doubt that Tiago would have been able to do the same had he been afforded the same chances by Pop his rookie year.

Pop made a huge mistake with Splitter when he entered the league. Tough to spin it any other way tbh.They are trying their damndest though... even soliciting help from the master popsuckers (and when that happens you know pop effed up bad)

[Darkwaters]

No. He's an increasingly effective center who now knows his role, which makes him a crucial element in a structured offense. But I wouldn't call him a leader. Only Tim, Tony, and Manu fill that role with any consistency.

Well thats just categorically untrue. How often do you see Stephen Jackson playing that leader card and getting in people's shit?

[Chinook]

I think Pop has to do this. Can't wait till game 5 again and then try to figure it out. That's not saying DG will choke again but there's no need to put that pressure on him.

He didn't choke the vs OKC. He went through a shooting slump. He's had them from time to time. He still lead the team in defensive points per 100.

[pgardn]

:nopeOnly thing he improved is minutes per game.

Yeah.

No change in FT shooting. Just pretend we did not have to pull him against OKC last year.

WTF do people watch? A big man who is going to get plenty of chances around the rim AND is a good FT shooter WILL get more minutes. Honest to God...

[pgardn]

It's not like Tiago was a young guy coming out of HS or college. He was a seasoned pro similar to Manu when he entered the league. Even when Manu got hurt in his rookie year, Pop gave him another opportunity and was a key contributor in the playoffs. I have little doubt that Tiago would have been able to do the same had he been afforded the same chances by Pop his rookie year.

Pop made a huge mistake with Splitter when he entered the league. Tough to spin it any other way tbh.

Similar to Manu because they both had Euro experience. Manu is your prototypical Euro find. They are all over the league. All those Greek God PG's we passed up...

oh the irony of a spin... Ridiculous post.

[Brunodf]

Yeah.

No change in FT shooting. Just pretend we did not have to pull him against OKC last year.

WTF do people watch? A big man who is going to get plenty of chances around the rim AND is a good FT shooter WILL get more minutes. Honest to God...

He shot 69% last season, 74%this season.
He had that wrist injury in the playoffs, do u watch the games?

[therealtruth]

He didn't choke the vs OKC. He went through a shooting slump. He's had them from time to time. He still lead the team in defensive points per 100.

Whether he took the series off or choked doesn't matter. What matters is Pop was forced to change his rotations at the last minute and we got the disaster in game 5 where Pop threw out some crazy rotations that hurt the team.

[maverick1948]

Timvp, you can tell the people on here who dont remember day before yesterday. Tiago should have been this, Pop should have done that with Tiago etc. What they forget is Tiago Splitter was hurt on the 1st day of preseason as a rookie and did not get back to full strenght for quite sometime. Was never pushed to do something he was not able. In year 2, the league lockout happened. No training camp then no available practice time during season to gain knowledge. Pop do what he did because of tightened schedule. This season Tiago has become the player Pop saw in Europe. What I would like to see more of is Tiago, Kawhi, Green, DeColo and Mills. That to me is the best small ball lineup we have. Neal and Blair are liabilities to the team. Bonner is a servicable big to come off the bench when needed. We cant play the starters 48 mins. a game, so having a solid little 3 to back up the big 3 would be nice.

[Chinook]

Whether he took the series off or choked doesn't matter. What matters is Pop was forced to change his rotations at the last minute and we got the disaster in game 5 where Pop threw out some crazy rotations that hurt the team.

Yes, it matters a lot. If Green is a choker, Pop needs to preemptively remove him from the lineup so the Spurs don't get dependent on his production (like with Bonner). If Green just had an unlucky streak (which is much more likely than him just taking the series off), the Pop just has to roll with it. If Green had had one of his 60-percent stretches, the Spurs may have been able to overcome all of their other issues and beaten OKC.

What Green has to do is find ways to be helpful even when he's not shooting well. He pretty much went into a shell against the Thunder after he couldn't buy a bucket. This season, he's shown good signs of that. He's had some bad shooting stretches so far, but in all but one game, he's found another way to contribute (big rebounding games, games in which he's scored well from two, great defensive games, etc.). If he can do that, then he'll get his minutes and be an asset.

[EJFischer]

Well thats just categorically untrue. How often do you see Stephen Jackson playing that leader card and getting in people's shit?

Not all that often, though it's happened on some notable occasions.. Also I suspect you and I have very different definitions of what leadership entails.

[rasho8]

Timvp, you can tell the people on here who dont remember day before yesterday. Tiago should have been this, Pop should have done that with Tiago etc. What they forget is Tiago Splitter was hurt on the 1st day of preseason as a rookie and did not get back to full strenght for quite sometime. Was never pushed to do something he was not able. In year 2, the league lockout happened. No training camp then no available practice time during season to gain knowledge. Pop do what he did because of tightened schedule. This season Tiago has become the player Pop saw in Europe. What I would like to see more of is Tiago, Kawhi, Green, DeColo and Mills. That to me is the best small ball lineup we have. Neal and Blair are liabilities to the team. Bonner is a servicable big to come off the bench when needed. We cant play the starters 48 mins. a game, so having a solid little 3 to back up the big 3 would be nice.

Thanks for making me not have to type all this. People should listen to this man since unlike the rest of you he has a memory longer than a roach.

[racm]

He didn't choke the vs OKC. He went through a shooting slump. He's had them from time to time. He still lead the team in defensive points per 100.

This... Green's a streaky shooter. People forget about his great performances against Utah and the Clippers because IcyHot went cold in the WCF.

[Darkwaters]

Not all that often, though it's happened on some notable occasions.. Also I suspect you and I have very different definitions of what leadership entails.

Probably not. Jackson's is just a more aggressive and demonstrative style. However, leadership can be much more subtle than that...which is where I would categorize Splitter. Hes a quiet professional that does the right thing (on and off the court), and he garners respect through that professionalism and his intelligence in the system. And when things are unclear on the court, Splitter quietly steps up and instructs.

What I really wish we had was a backup PG that showed some moxy, poise and leadership. We need that floor general.

[Hoops Czar]

As a "leader", he needs to be a lot more assertive on offense and much more aggressive on the defensive boards.

[therealtruth]

Timvp, you can tell the people on here who dont remember day before yesterday. Tiago should have been this, Pop should have done that with Tiago etc. What they forget is Tiago Splitter was hurt on the 1st day of preseason as a rookie and did not get back to full strenght for quite sometime. Was never pushed to do something he was not able. In year 2, the league lockout happened. No training camp then no available practice time during season to gain knowledge. Pop do what he did because of tightened schedule. This season Tiago has become the player Pop saw in Europe. What I would like to see more of is Tiago, Kawhi, Green, DeColo and Mills. That to me is the best small ball lineup we have. Neal and Blair are liabilities to the team. Bonner is a servicable big to come off the bench when needed. We cant play the starters 48 mins. a game, so having a solid little 3 to back up the big 3 would be nice.

So if we got Dwight Howard next year and he was injured during training camp. Do we avoid playing him over our current players for two years? If Pop really wanted to get Tiago in the lineup he would have found a way to get it done. Your selective memory also forgets when he said it wouldn't be fair to the team to play him.

[pgardn]

He shot 69% last season, 74%this season.
He had that wrist injury in the playoffs, do u watch the games?

Do you watch the games?

Tell me with a straight face he has done nothing to his FT's this year vs. last year?

[EJFischer]

Probably not. Jackson's is just a more aggressive and demonstrative style. However, leadership can be much more subtle than that...which is where I would categorize Splitter. Hes a quiet professional that does the right thing (on and off the court), and he garners respect through that professionalism and his intelligence in the system. And when things are unclear on the court, Splitter quietly steps up and instructs.

What I really wish we had was a backup PG that showed some moxy, poise and leadership. We need that floor general.

Your comment about the lack of leadership among the backup point guards gets to the heart of why I don't consider Splitter a team leader yet. Given the revolving door at the backup PG position, Splitter has more floor experience with the starters than any of the backup PGs, and so it would be surprising if he didn't offer instruction. But I don't see leadership as just a willingness to instruct--ideally that kind of communication could exist between any members of a cohesive team. To me, a team leader is a player willing to take personal responsibility for the collective's success or failure. The ones that always want to run the floor, read the defense, be involved in possessions as the clock winds down. The ones who always put themselves in positions where, sometimes, they have to say, "This loss was on me." While other players may exhibit moments of leadership, those are the players I would consider the team leaders. And I still haven't seen that from anyone other than Tim, Tony, and Manu.

[NickiRasgo]

Good job OP!:toast

But I don't get it on some poster here saying about his percentage, he choked, etc. when Spurs being #1. I think the reason why the Spurs being #1 right now when Pop inserted Splitter to the starting line-up. C'mon people, learn to appreciate. Stop expecting too much, it was a good start/sign.

[Embedded]

I'm starting to see Mr. Splitter developing into the future of the Spurs franchise, along with Mr. Leonard.

[Solid D]

Leaders are those who empower others. Tiago helps to empower others.

[TheGoldStandard]

I'm starting to see the same thing happen in tonights game, Tiago is running the floor with confidence, he's using post moves and controlling the boards. I am loving this evolution and he's still very young for his position.