When your best player is a PG..

[HarlemHeat37]

His impact will be limited when he's matched up against long, athletic wing defenders, unfortunately..it is the well-known reserved weapon for defenses to use once they realize their own PG is getting killed on defense..

There are examples every year..

Parker vs. Thabo
Rose vs. Lebron
Chris Paul vs. Danny Green/Bowen(using Spurs examples)
Westbrook vs. Kobe

A PG's size and style of play makes him susceptible to suffering in the playoffs, once defenses make a full effort to shut him down..

This game was meaningless in the standings and in the grand scheme..the Spurs coasted, while the Suns received clutch shots from terrible players(Morris, Johnson) and historically unclutch players(O'Neal), but it was another reminder that Parker will struggle against long, athletic defenders..

[Darius McCrary]

discussion already took place in game thread tbh but welcome

[DPG21920]

If he is to take that next step to be a truly dominant player, he will have to overcome this. He can't allow himself to be taken out of games like this. Sure, his teammates need to help, but if he has another level (and I am praying he does) he has to still be a factor when the obvious & predictable strategy is used.

[AFBlue]

I can think of instances this uear when teams have thrown length at Parker and he still dominated. Like DPG said, he just can't let himself be taken out of the game for the Spurs to have a chance at #5. It's not impossible though.

[ElNono]

To his defense he did go to his jumper and bricked everything, but the aggression was there... the problem is he's much more effective going to the rim... I didn't like when he was forcing stuff though... there was no ball movement and it ended up in bad passes with little time left

[EricB]

Who are the long defenders he's going to face in the west playoffs?

[HarlemHeat37]

Who are the long defenders he's going to face in the west playoffs?

He won't have to worry about anybody in the 1st round, but following that: Tony Allen, Iguodala, Brewer, Sefolosha, Lebron..

[Robz4000]

Who are the long defenders he's going to face in the west playoffs?

Sefelosha's the only one that matters.

[playblair]

thabo....................

[Dingle Barry]

Who are the long defenders he's going to face in the west playoffs?


Thabo

[Texas_Ranger]

don't see problems against Houston and the Clippers in the playoffs. But OKC with Thabo and Brewer and if we reach the finals, Miami can even put James on Tony. Then we finished.

[Robz4000]

He won't have to worry about anybody in the 1st round, but following that: Tony Allen, Iguodala, Brewer, Sefolosha, Lebron..

Spurs are good enough to beat Memphis and Denver even with those two guarding TP, it's OKC and Miami you need to worry about.

[ElNono]

Kobe/Artest wouldn't matter because they're slow footed... but Harlem pretty much built a solid list

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs are good enough to beat Memphis and Denver even with those two guarding TP, it's OKC and Miami you need to worry about.

I agree that they are good enough, but with Duncan potentially slowing down and Ginobili looking inconsistent and limited, Parker will need to play at a superstar level against those teams..

[BatManu20]

Sefalosha and Lebron are Tony's worst nightmare.

[Johnny RIngo]

Kobe/Artest wouldn't matter because they're slow footed... but Harlem pretty much built a solid list

It is pretty hilarious watching Kobe try to guard TP. Most overrated defender of all-time, for sure. Might be worth having a Spurs-Lakers first round matchup just to see that. But yeah, I don't like our chances against either OKC or the Heat.

[midnightpulp]

Couldn't agree more. The Spurs also lacking a second reliable perimeter scorer who can consistently go off for 20 points will doom them in the post-season.

[Brunodf]

Spurs don't run new plays, just the old TP/TD PnR or Manu/TD PnR.
Post up Kawhi or run the PnR with Kawhi/Splitter, the offense in crunch time wouldn't be so predictable...

[tim_duncan_fan]

This is when we miss Tim being young enough to haul the team through anything, tbh.

We need to bring Kawhi up to 2nd/3rd option quickly. He'll have to pick it up when Tony inevitably gets limited.

[HarlemHeat37]

Btw, this isn't an indictment specifically on Parker, it's the case for the entire PG position..unless you have a genetic freak like Magic Johnson, there's a strong chance you will lose in the playoffs with a PG as your best player..

This might be a homer opinion, but the Spurs are one of the few teams in history that could manage to win with a PG as their best player IMO..Pop as a coach, along with the ball movement and versatility of the offense could potentially negate the PG theory..

This would require Duncan and Ginobili to perform at a star level for an entire series, but unfortunately, I'm skeptical that they still have the ability, especially the latter..

[DesignatedT]

Sure he will have his struggles.... Just like every other NBA player that will be playing this May. If the Spurs win it will be a total team effort and they need everybody to play well. I mean everybody 1-9 or however many guys they play. I think that's been pretty obvious from the start.

[Sean Cagney]

Btw, this isn't an indictment specifically on Parker, it's the case for the entire PG position..unless you have a genetic freak like Magic Johnson, there's a strong chance you will lose in the playoffs with a PG as your best player..

This might be a homer opinion, but the Spurs are one of the few teams in history that could manage to win with a PG as their best player IMO..Pop as a coach, along with the ball movement and versatility of the offense could potentially negate the PG theory..

This would require Duncan and Ginobili to perform at a star level for an entire series, but unfortunately, I'm skeptical that they still have the ability, especially the latter..

Magic is a great example, he was tall as hell though lol! I would bring up one more, Isiah Thomas, if you are not him though forget it! He was not tall but dude was a great player and clutch. Jason Kidd I can think of somewhat as well, outside of that if your best player is a PG pretty much forget it like you guys said.
Sure he will have his struggles.... Just like every other NBA player that will be playing this May. If the Spurs win it will be a total team effort and they need everybody to play well. I mean everybody 1-9 or however many guys they play. I think that's been pretty obvious from the start.

The only way they can do that is they play great D and a guy steps up every night in the playoffs, doesn't matter who but one or two guys like the 04 Pistons show up in the games! Total team effort, but relying on D to get you the stops. Spurs need to make their FT's too, come on you miss that many down the stretch? Really?

[HI-FI]

not arguing the point, because historically PG led teams don't make it all the way. But our FO is pretty damn smart, couldn't they have figured out something else in the twilight of Timmy's career? I feel like we're expecting a lot out of Kawhi to take up that slack. I think he's totally up for it, but it's asking a lot imo.

[RD2191]

tony parker on the yahoo home page, talking about how underrated he is, fml

[Man In Black]

The team got lax and didn't have their focus. Parker can be helped free with the laser focus. They didn't give Tony the extra step he needs with the solid picks or rubs and even Manu couldn't make a late game FT. Is it a worry that Parker can still be affected by long and athletic perimeter defenders? Yes, but this ain't a box on one defense. It's as if the team helped Tony get stopped with poor execution and shooting. Maybe they should have kept Blair in the game since his activity for the game was working. All in all, it's that precision offense that's required for a deep and meaningful playoff run. Today...it wasn't precision at all.

[MR-Clutch]

Its vital to our teams success that Kawhi gets more touches, and gets more involved on the offensive end. I think its equally important to have Manu or Kawhi on the court with Tony when they stick that long defender on him.

[DesignatedT]

Parker can't lead the Spurs to a championship anymore then Lebron could lead the Cavs. It's got to be a total group effort at this point. Last season we had 2 or 3 guys out of the group who didn't show up and that's why we lost. Everybody has to show up and play well enough to win. Tony will continue to struggle against bigger and longer defenders and I haven't seen anyone disagree with that. Just like the Heat struggle with bigger/taller teams. Everybody has to adjust. Tony can't play at an A+ level every night and he shouldn't be expected to. If people think that is the case well then the Spurs have no shot at winning because he's going to have games where he struggles just like everybody does. I don't get people constantly singling him out.

[therealtruth]

Its vital to our teams success that Kawhi gets more touches, and gets more involved on the offensive end. I think its equally important to have Manu or Kawhi on the court with Tony when they stick that long defender on him.

It will take Pop till next season to figure that out just like with Splitter.

[spurraider21]

I'm sure Dragic's length was really bothering Tony today

[slick'81]

like nono said tony keep attacking for the most part but when a team goes big on u and packs the paint that jumpers gotta fall and tonys just wasnt last night

[EricB]

Sweet if Thabo is guarding Parker who guards Ginobili? Russell Westbrook?

[capek]

In a way I'm kind of glad this game turned out the way it did. Obviously TP had real struggles down the stretch against a long defender, but the more fundamental problem was that ball movement completely stopped. The one sure way to overcome the issue of big defenders on PG-dominant teams is to rely on ball movement, trust in the system and other players. This game should be a lesson to everyone not to let themselves get away from are superior ball movement in situations like these.

[elemento]

It would be so much easier if SA had a proper backup PG.

They could simply start Manu. If OKC put Thabo on Parker, then Westbrook would have to deal with Manu and he could run SAS offense if Parker struggles to do so. The problem is that the starters depend on Parker to score and facilitate. When a team kills Parker, they kill San Antonio's offense entirely.

Green is a spot up shooter, Leonard barely creates for himself, Splitter is a P&R BIG, and Duncan, while still good on the post, is not an unstoppable force in the low-block anymore.

I know my opinion is not the most popular among Spurs fans, but I think Manu should start. Start the best players and create a bench unit decent enough to play 10-12 minutes/game in the playoffs.

[Pop]

It would be so much easier if SA had a proper backup PG.

They could simply start Manu. If OKC put Thabo on Parker, then Westbrook would have to deal with Manu and he could run SAS offense if Parker struggles to do so. The problem is that the starters depend on Parker to score and facilitate. When a team kills Parker, they kill San Antonio's offense entirely.

Green is a spot up shooter, Leonard barely creates for himself, Splitter is a P&R BIG, and Duncan, while still good on the post, is not an unstoppable force in the low-block anymore.

I know my opinion is not the most popular among Spurs fans, but I think Manu should start. Start the best players and create a bench unit decent enough to play 10-12 minutes/game in the playoffs.

I agree with you that this older version of Manu should start, would make it easier for both him and TP but I wouldn't expect Pop to do that even if we got Chris Paul backing up TP tbh...

[Brazil]

There are no 1000 combinations to overcome that against top teams. TP needs to shoot mid range jumpers and hopefully makes it at a reasonable rate, role players need to step up and take advantage of the mismatch created at the SG or SF position and Tim needs to be December Tim. Simple on paper but hard to achieve.

[TD 21]

It would be so much easier if SA had a proper backup PG.

They could simply start Manu. If OKC put Thabo on Parker, then Westbrook would have to deal with Manu and he could run SAS offense if Parker struggles to do so. The problem is that the starters depend on Parker to score and facilitate. When a team kills Parker, they kill San Antonio's offense entirely.

Green is a spot up shooter, Leonard barely creates for himself, Splitter is a P&R BIG, and Duncan, while still good on the post, is not an unstoppable force in the low-block anymore.

I know my opinion is not the most popular among Spurs fans, but I think Manu should start. Start the best players and create a bench unit decent enough to play 10-12 minutes/game in the playoffs.

They don't really have the personnel for it. If he goes back to starting, they'll still need him to play with the bench, which would probably mean playing him about 32-34 mpg in non blowouts and they're not comfortable with that. If he goes back to starting, but he doesn't play with the bench, then they'd need to make Green the backup SF and De Colo the backup PG, while dropping Jackson from the rotation, all things I can't see them doing.

In other words, unfortunately this won't be addressed until the off season (presuming they don't win the championship). As I mentioned in the free agency thread, it wouldn't surprise me if they target Harris, Augustin and Billups.


Harlem, how was this game meaningless in the standings? They need the number one seed to have a realistic shot at reaching the Finals and this loss contributed to screwing that up. I know a loss is a loss, but this feels like two because of it's unexpected nature. Now they have to make up for it by winning an unexpected one.

[Blackjack]

I don't see this changing for Parker, or see any other point-guard with similar size and skillset having any more success consistently, either.

It's not the size so much as the skillset. If Tony shot the 3 like Curry, things would be different. But as it is, a good defender with length is better able to utilize it by not having to play tight. They're able to lay off enough to compensate for their lack of quickness against Parker, and because Parker's game is primarily free-throw-line-extended and down, that often brings a second and third defender into the equation.

The key for Parker and the Spurs is to maintain their ball-movement. They have to avoid isolations and one-on-one plays from Parker against teams that can throw a quality, long defender or two at him - get him on the move, the defender in pursuit, then allow Parker to make the decision.

They need to have someone else initiate the offense in the half-court, provide the hockey-assist or assist for Tony.

[Cane]

It's not the size so much as the skillset. If Tony shot the 3 like Curry, things would be different.

They need to have someone else initiate the offense in the half-court, provide the hockey-assist or assist for Tony.

Tony would be a goddam monster if he could shoot the 3 like Curry but agreed on your post

A lot of the offense was being run through Duncan earlier in the season. Once his ankles/knee aren't as sore we'll see more offensive versatility, not to mention Manu is still getting in rhythm

Hopefully its enough to do damage in the playoffs but I wanted the Spurs to make another trade to get some more talent, easier said than done though

[pgardn]

Btw, this isn't an indictment specifically on Parker, it's the case for the entire PG position..unless you have a genetic freak like Magic Johnson, there's a strong chance you will lose in the playoffs with a PG as your best player..

This might be a homer opinion, but the Spurs are one of the few teams in history that could manage to win with a PG as their best player IMO..Pop as a coach, along with the ball movement and versatility of the offense could potentially negate the PG theory..

This would require Duncan and Ginobili to perform at a star level for an entire series, but unfortunately, I'm skeptical that they still have the ability, especially the latter..

Lebron and Miami disagree. Wade and Chalmers play the 2... Don't matter what they write in the program.

[benefactor]

The PG theory aside...the Spurs chances at a title lie in Duncan being the Duncan of earlier this season and Manu being very close to Supermanu. Without either of those there isn't much to discuss.

[Kidd K]

How did Parker suck against the Suns exactly? Statiscially, he pretty much put up his averages except missing that tough layup and one free throw more than usual. He also got 1.5 less turnovers than usual, which kind of cancels out his slightly less than normal shooting %. I'd say he had a typical, average Parker game. Could've been better of course, but not way better unless he was having a huge game.

Manu on the other hand, choked on the game-sealing free throw and bricked all three of his shots in OT. . .two of which were terrible shot selection. I love Manu, but he wasn't good last night.

[dbreiden83080]

Tony as good as he is can't carry the Spurs to a ring; this has to be a total team effort. He does not have that extra gear that legendary players do. Tim is still the leader of this team with Tony following; mentally I don't think Tony will ever feel like he is the MAN with 21 on this squad. Tony has to keep being the best player on offense with KL taking on more and more of a role offensively as it is quite obvious Manu is just a shell at this point. TD also has to wind back the clock some and be enough of a beast on offense that the double teams will come..

[dbreiden83080]

don't see problems against Houston and the Clippers in the playoffs. But OKC with Thabo and Brewer and if we reach the finals, Miami can even put James on Tony. Then we finished.

James would only be on Tony is spurts though. Heat need way too much from Lebron on offense to have him chasing Tony around for 40 min a game.. Pop would have to exploit the matchups Tony has when Lebron is not on Tony..

[itzsoweezee]

Luckily, kawhi is starting to assert himself a lot more.