To solve The tony parker, can't score against Athletic 2-3's.....

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi Needs touches. It's a very logical solution IMO...Lebron, Iguoadala are all solid 3 who are going to defend parker. Manu would probably have to hold the ball more often against OKC since sefelsosha would be guarding tony.

Tony parker, is fast enough to play an offball game, i'm sure he'll find a lot of open look playing without the ball.

[ace3g]

Probably don't need another thread for this, lol, but I mentioned in a few other threads when teams start to use this strategy against Parker, Pop should have some "packages" in place to counter:

- Use Kawhi in the post .
- Set up plays for Kawhi's baseline jumper (High percentage shot).
- Use Kawhi and/or Diaw as point forwards and move TP to SG.

Spurs aren't trying to hide the fact that they are increasing Kawhi's role with the team this season, running more plays for him and developing his "point forward" skills. Hopefully part of it is to counter this strategy teams are using against TP.

[Brazil]

Diaw could also be used at PG :lol

[TrainOfThought5]

it'd be nice if we had a dominant post scoring big man to be honest.

[Bruno]

Parker can score against long/athletic players.

[emanueldavidginobili]

I was pleading last night for some touches for KL he already proven he can create for himself and can score in the post. He literally didn't get any touches last night during crunch time and OT. It was basically just Tony dribbling dribbling dribbling Manu chucking crazy shots and Tim trying to make something happen, while we have a fresh 21 year old that can score, it will also do wonders if he gets some touches and plays called for him during crunch time

[Man In Black]

Nah...that was an abomination last night. The team was flat and they weren't playing like a team. It seemed the only player who played with any kind of passion was DeJuan Blair. The guys just need to get into their opponents more and set harder picks and rubs to get TP an easier shot at the rim. Every team has at least 1 long armed athletic defender who they can use to employ against Parker, but where Parker is most dangerous is when he has options to go to. The way the team was shooting yesterday, it was as if the Suns could just pollute the paint with defenders because the shooting was atrocious especially late. Even if the team had won, had Manu made the 2nd FT, then it would have still felt like an L.

[Mugen]

Takes more than just a long athletic individual defender to stop Tony. It takes great help defense with additional length (like Ibaka, Durant, Perk), the Spurs to stop moving the ball, and role players to stop hitting open shots. When all those happen then yes the Spurs are in a lot of trouble.

It's not like you can just stick Thabo on him and that's it. He's still going to get run through a lot of screen n rolls and the help D has to be there. OKC played great D in the WCF but not enough guys stepped up to hit shots.

[cd98]

Remember when we used to put Bowen on Nash and he would shut Nash down. The key is being able to punish the opposing team's point guard for not guarding Tony. Problem is that the point guard can probably guard Danny Green without too much of a let down.

[KaiRMD1]

Kawhi's main complaint was that he can create and I agree, we have enough spot up shooters but just like when Manu takes over a game it solves that problem, Kawhi should definitely get a lot of touches. Hell, if Green could develop a better game then that would be another option.

[in2deep]

anything beats TP dribbling the ball like an idiot and then throwing it to Tim to bail him out

[BatManu20]

it'd be nice if we had a dominant post scoring big man to be honest.

Al Jefferson says hi.

[Man In Black]

Man they lose simply because Manu missed a FT and all of sudden Jefferson is needed? Hell naw!

[therealtruth]

Takes more than just a long athletic individual defender to stop Tony. It takes great help defense with additional length (like Ibaka, Durant, Perk), the Spurs to stop moving the ball, and role players to stop hitting open shots. When all those happen then yes the Spurs are in a lot of trouble.

It's not like you can just stick Thabo on him and that's it. He's still going to get run through a lot of screen n rolls and the help D has to be there. OKC played great D in the WCF but not enough guys stepped up to hit shots.

You can't ask role players to hit contested shots. When a team has enough length they can bother Tony on his drives while still being able to recover on our shooters.

[benstanfield]

We should see if Tiago can score consistently with more post touches. He takes weird hook shots but he always gets good position and it seems like he's been pretty good in the post this year. If TD is really gonna hobbled from here on out, Tiago needs to absorb his touches on offense. Having a consistent post scorer to go to when TP struggles would be huge.

[SPURSCHAMP]

We should see if Tiago can score consistently with more post touches. He takes weird hook shots but he always gets good position and it seems like he's been pretty good in the post this year. If TD is really gonna hobbled from here on out, Tiago needs to absorb his touches on offense. Having a consistent post scorer to go to when TP struggles would be huge.
If TD is hobbled going into PO, it doesn't matter how good splitter plays in the post, we won't win

[TheSkeptic]

If TD is hobbled going into PO, it doesn't matter how good splitter plays in the post, we won't win

True, but at the very least if Splitter and Kawhi can help extend a series then there'll be another chance for TD and Manu to play vintage in the next game.

If it helps, according to Synergy it looks like Splitter's PPP is .97 in the post. Ranked 12th in the league actually if I'm reading the stats right. But he's taken significantly less post up attempts than Duncan has (TD's post-up PPP is .91 fwiw). That number probably drops if he gets more touches but it can't hurt to let him try so we have another scoring option.

In any case, his offensive efficiency is pretty ridiculous all around. I'd be in favour of the Spurs doing a better job of getting Tiago involved offensively. My feeling is that he needs to be involved more so that he can get into a rhythm if he's going to be a 4th quarter option in the playoffs. He won't be consistent once the defense tightens up if he goes from 2 FGA in the 1st to none until the 3rd, etc.

According to these numbers, Kawhi seems to do his best work off of cuts (1.13 PPP) and spot-ups (0.94 PPP). He's also really really good in transition (1.38 PPP). But I would have no issue with him also getting post touches and isos run for him here and there. I like that he's being more creative with the ball and depending on who he's matched up against, he could do well for us in the playoffs if he gets used to doing more with the ball. I wouldn't expect him to be terribly efficient if he was taking tons of shots from the perimeter but if he can run the P&R with Splitter (not his strong suit at this stage) or TD, and drive to the hoop a little more he'd also give the Spurs another option on offense.

If it isn't obvious, I think the Spurs stand their best chance in the playoffs if they go the Detroit route although obviously TP would be the number 1 option. The more ready guys like Spitter and KL are, the less we'll need to rely on Manu/TD to turn back the clock.

Though I agree that a championship isn't going to happen if those two aren't playing up to a certain (note: still relatively high) standard.

[SPURSCHAMP]

True, but at the very least if Splitter and Kawhi can help extend a series then there'll be another chance for TD and Manu to play vintage in the next game.

If it helps, according to Synergy it looks like Splitter's PPP is .97 in the post. Ranked 12th in the league actually if I'm reading the stats right. But he's taken significantly less post up attempts than Duncan has (TD's post-up PPP is .91 fwiw). That number probably drops if he gets more touches but it can't hurt to let him try so we have another scoring option.

In any case, his offensive efficiency is pretty ridiculous all around. I'd be in favour of the Spurs doing a better job of getting Tiago involved offensively. My feeling is that he needs to be involved more so that he can get into a rhythm if he's going to be a 4th quarter option in the playoffs. He won't be consistent once the defense tightens up if he goes from 2 FGA in the 1st to none until the 3rd, etc.

According to these numbers, Kawhi seems to do his best work off of cuts (1.13 PPP) and spot-ups (0.94 PPP). He's also really really good in transition (1.38 PPP). But I would have no issue with him also getting post touches and isos run for him here and there. I like that he's being more creative with the ball and depending on who he's matched up against, he could do well for us in the playoffs if he gets used to doing more with the ball. I wouldn't expect him to be terribly efficient if he was taking tons of shots from the perimeter but if he can run the P&R with Splitter (not his strong suit at this stage) or TD, and drive to the hoop a little more he'd also give the Spurs another option on offense.

If it isn't obvious, I think the Spurs stand their best chance in the playoffs if they go the Detroit route although obviously TP would be the number 1 option. The more ready guys like Spitter and KL are, the less we'll need to rely on Manu/TD to turn back the clock.

Though I agree that a championship isn't going to happen if those two aren't playing up to a certain (note: still relatively high) standard.
I do believe Tiago needs more touches now and in the Playoffs, especially post ups, so that someone like Coatriding Family-Excuses Quitter can't guard him:bang. But what I don't believe is that we can get anywhere with TD hobbled like benstanfield said no matter what Splitter or Kawhi does. We already have 1/3 of the Big 3 who isn't reliable, if another one becomes hobbled... I hate to say, we might not get past even the Lakers. (Conditional)

[cd021]

Probably don't need another thread for this, lol, but I mentioned in a few other threads when teams start to use this strategy against Parker, Pop should have some "packages" in place to counter:

- Use Kawhi in the post .
- Set up plays for Kawhi's baseline jumper (High percentage shot).
- Use Kawhi and/or Diaw as point forwards and move TP to SG.

Spurs aren't trying to hide the fact that they are increasing Kawhi's role with the team this season, running more plays for him and developing his "point forward" skills. Hopefully part of it is to counter this strategy teams are using against TP.

Kawhi isn't that great of a post player he is just tall and long. Jax is a better post player and can pass out of the double team if he has a advantage over his man and they send help. Those off ball curls that gets open looks at the top of the key would be a better way of getting Kawhi involved.

[cd021]

I do believe Tiago needs more touches now and in the Playoffs, especially post ups, so that someone like Coatriding Family-Excuses Quitter can't guard him:bang. But what I don't believe is that we can get anywhere with TD hobbled like benstanfield said no matter what Splitter or Kawhi does. We already have 1/3 of the Big 3 who isn't reliable, if another one becomes hobbled... I hate to say, we might not get past even the Lakers. (Conditional)

Splitter isn't that type of player in the NBA. He can score their on occasion but only in certain matchups against certain teams. It gets ugly when teams send a double when he is making his move and he is left scrambling trying to put up a shot or at least not lose the ball in the process. He's like Hibbert, everything in moderation. We could beat the Lakers without Manu. They cannot guard Parker Period. Gasol is having the worst season in nearly a decade and will be working his way back into the lineup only to return to off the bench. Howard has a painful should injury that Kurt Rambis described as excruciating (he had the same injury for several years).

Duncan has always defended Howard well & Howard isn't nearly as explosive off the screen and roll and him and Nash don't have the same chemistry that him and Jameer Nelson had. Splitter and Diaw are better than Sacre & and Clarke. They have the 22nd rated defensive in the league compared to the spurs who are 4th (at last check) in offensive and defense. a 6 game series would be a surprise.

[cd021]

True, but at the very least if Splitter and Kawhi can help extend a series then there'll be another chance for TD and Manu to play vintage in the next game.

If it helps, according to Synergy it looks like Splitter's PPP is .97 in the post. Ranked 12th in the league actually if I'm reading the stats right. But he's taken significantly less post up attempts than Duncan has (TD's post-up PPP is .91 fwiw). That number probably drops if he gets more touches but it can't hurt to let him try so we have another scoring option.

In any case, his offensive efficiency is pretty ridiculous all around. I'd be in favour of the Spurs doing a better job of getting Tiago involved offensively. My feeling is that he needs to be involved more so that he can get into a rhythm if he's going to be a 4th quarter option in the playoffs. He won't be consistent once the defense tightens up if he goes from 2 FGA in the 1st to none until the 3rd, etc.

According to these numbers, Kawhi seems to do his best work off of cuts (1.13 PPP) and spot-ups (0.94 PPP). He's also really really good in transition (1.38 PPP). But I would have no issue with him also getting post touches and isos run for him here and there. I like that he's being more creative with the ball and depending on who he's matched up against, he could do well for us in the playoffs if he gets used to doing more with the ball. I wouldn't expect him to be terribly efficient if he was taking tons of shots from the perimeter but if he can run the P&R with Splitter (not his strong suit at this stage) or TD, and drive to the hoop a little more he'd also give the Spurs another option on offense.

If it isn't obvious, I think the Spurs stand their best chance in the playoffs if they go the Detroit route although obviously TP would be the number 1 option. The more ready guys like Spitter and KL are, the less we'll need to rely on Manu/TD to turn back the clock.

Though I agree that a championship isn't going to happen if those two aren't playing up to a certain (note: still relatively high) standard.

That Kawhi being good in transition is suprising. He looks akward with the ball and normally looks to pass it immediately after he gets to the 3 point line. Splitter does go M.I.A in the second half but realistically any thing in the 10 point 5-7 FG range, 6 rebounds, and a great defensive rating is wha we can expect. Him scoring in the flow of the offense and and helping defend the rim with Duncan at his side or on the bench is a great benefit to the team.

[Quasar]

Splitter has shown some flashes of ability in creating for himself, although the Spurs haven't used him in that fashion.

[cd021]

Al Jefferson says hi.

We could see him in the offseason.

[Trill Clinton]

cosign all of the suggestions to use kawhi in the post.

i couldn't believe they didn't go to him not once in OT when he had dragic on him.

[benstanfield]

I do believe Tiago needs more touches now and in the Playoffs, especially post ups, so that someone like Coatriding Family-Excuses Quitter can't guard him:bang. But what I don't believe is that we can get anywhere with TD hobbled like benstanfield said no matter what Splitter or Kawhi does. We already have 1/3 of the Big 3 who isn't reliable, if another one becomes hobbled... I hate to say, we might not get past even the Lakers. (Conditional)

I don't understand? Should we just give up, now that it looks like Duncan won't be 100% ? If he can still give us somewhat solid defense and interior presence, as well as hitting midrange jumpers with PnR here and there, and if Tiago and Kawhi step way up, we can definitely still compete. We couldn't do it WITHOUT Timmy, but we can do it without freakish timewizard comeback Timmy certainly. Or at least I'm not giving up. Fuck.

[SPURSCHAMP]

I don't understand? Should we just give up, now that it looks like Duncan won't be 100% ? If he can still give us somewhat solid defense and interior presence, as well as hitting midrange jumpers with PnR here and there, and if Tiago and Kawhi step way up, we can definitely still compete. We couldn't do it WITHOUT Timmy, but we can do it without freakish timewizard comeback Timmy certainly. Or at least I'm not giving up. Fuck.
It's still February, rest him, you'll never know what will happen, he could be back at 100%. I'm not giving up either, just trying to be realistic, Parker can be stopped. When that happens you need someone who can score, possibly draw double teams, I believe we need a healthy Timmy for that to happen against Perkins

[SPURSCHAMP]

I do believe Tiago needs more touches now and in the Playoffs, especially post ups, so that someone like Coatriding Family-Excuses Quitter can't guard him:bang. But what I don't believe is that we can get anywhere with TD hobbled like benstanfield said no matter what Splitter or Kawhi does. We already have 1/3 of the Big 3 who isn't reliable, if another one becomes hobbled... I hate to say, we might not get past even the Lakers. (Conditional)


Splitter isn't that type of player in the NBA. He can score their on occasion but only in certain matchups against certain teams. It gets ugly when teams send a double when he is making his move and he is left scrambling trying to put up a shot or at least not lose the ball in the process. He's like Hibbert, everything in moderation. We could beat the Lakers without Manu. They cannot guard Parker Period. Gasol is having the worst season in nearly a decade and will be working his way back into the lineup only to return to off the bench. Howard has a painful should injury that Kurt Rambis described as excruciating (he had the same injury for several years).

Duncan has always defended Howard well & Howard isn't nearly as explosive off the screen and roll and him and Nash don't have the same chemistry that him and Jameer Nelson had. Splitter and Diaw are better than Sacre & and Clarke. They have the 22nd rated defensive in the league compared to the spurs who are 4th (at last check) in offensive and defense. a 6 game series would be a surprise.
Also, asking for Splitter to be able to post up Coattailer isn't too much to ask for, imo. Just so OKC will have a harder time switching on Parker

[TheSkeptic]

I do believe Tiago needs more touches now and in the Playoffs, especially post ups, so that someone like Coatriding Family-Excuses Quitter can't guard him:bang. But what I don't believe is that we can get anywhere with TD hobbled like benstanfield said no matter what Splitter or Kawhi does. We already have 1/3 of the Big 3 who isn't reliable, if another one becomes hobbled... I hate to say, we might not get past even the Lakers. (Conditional)

I think so. I'm with you though on our chances with a one-legged TD. Especially since we don't know how healthy Manu will be. If those guys are on the court though, we can at least use guys like Splitter and Kawhi to make up the difference somewhat.


That Kawhi being good in transition is suprising. He looks akward with the ball and normally looks to pass it immediately after he gets to the 3 point line. Splitter does go M.I.A in the second half but realistically any thing in the 10 point 5-7 FG range, 6 rebounds, and a great defensive rating is wha we can expect. Him scoring in the flow of the offense and and helping defend the rim with Duncan at his side or on the bench is a great benefit to the team.

I know right? I had seriously been expecting Kawhi's highest PPP to come from cuts. But in a way it makes sense because he usually finishes pretty well when he gets steals. If he and *sigh* Danny Green can create for themselves somewhat, the Spurs can have a puncher's chance if for some reason Parker's taken out of the game. Diaw's coasting is kind of annoying, but there's not a doubt in my mind that he'll turn it on in the playoffs.

Disagree slightly on the MIA in the second half part. Earlier in the season and as recently as the Chicago game, Splitter's been critical in getting baskets for us in the 4th. His offensive touches are just really inconsistent. Our offensive system is kinda perimeter-oriented in that our paint-playing bigs are mostly used as finishers. So they need to make a more concerted effort to keep guys like Splitter involved on that side of the floor because I'd rather have a warmed up Tiago lay-up with the lead than Neal or someone trying to shoot us back into a game.

[200 miles]

I think so. I'm with you though on our chances with a one-legged TD. Especially since we don't know how healthy Manu will be. If those guys are on the court though, we can at least use guys like Splitter and Kawhi to make up the difference somewhat.



I know right? I had seriously been expecting Kawhi's highest PPP to come from cuts. But in a way it makes sense because he usually finishes pretty well when he gets steals. If he and *sigh* Danny Green can create for themselves somewhat, the Spurs can have a puncher's chance if for some reason Parker's taken out of the game. Diaw's coasting is kind of annoying, but there's not a doubt in my mind that he'll turn it on in the playoffs.

Disagree slightly on the MIA in the second half part. Earlier in the season and as recently as the Chicago game, Splitter's been critical in getting baskets for us in the 4th. His offensive touches are just really inconsistent. Our offensive system is kinda perimeter-oriented in that our paint-playing bigs are mostly used as finishers. So they need to make a more concerted effort to keep guys like Splitter involved on that side of the floor because I'd rather have a warmed up Tiago lay-up with the lead than Neal or someone trying to shoot us back into a game.

There lies the problem for the playoffs. Even though they now have the Twin Towers again in the starting lineup, Pop still gets the team to play a more outside-in game and that wont help against the likes of the Thunder, Heat and perhaps the Grizzlies. You would think Pop would finally learn his lesson after years of busts.

[cd021]

Also, asking for Splitter to be able to post up Coattailer isn't too much to ask for, imo. Just so OKC will have a harder time switching on Parker

It goes with out saying that if they get a small defender on Splitter for a possession then take advantage. If he is played by Perkins I don't see him scoring alot in the post( the only thing that Perkins is good at) Green will bee the difference maker in this series. If he can shoot anywhere close to his 42% 3pt in the playoffs vs the Thunder. They'd have a harder time placing a smaller Westbrook on Green and moving Sef to Parker.

[cd021]

I think so. I'm with you though on our chances with a one-legged TD. Especially since we don't know how healthy Manu will be. If those guys are on the court though, we can at least use guys like Splitter and Kawhi to make up the difference somewhat.



I know right? I had seriously been expecting Kawhi's highest PPP to come from cuts. But in a way it makes sense because he usually finishes pretty well when he gets steals. If he and *sigh* Danny Green can create for themselves somewhat, the Spurs can have a puncher's chance if for some reason Parker's taken out of the game. Diaw's coasting is kind of annoying, but there's not a doubt in my mind that he'll turn it on in the playoffs.

Disagree slightly on the MIA in the second half part. Earlier in the season and as recently as the Chicago game, Splitter's been critical in getting baskets for us in the 4th. His offensive touches are just really inconsistent. Our offensive system is kinda perimeter-oriented in that our paint-playing bigs are mostly used as finishers. So they need to make a more concerted effort to keep guys like Splitter involved on that side of the floor because I'd rather have a warmed up Tiago lay-up with the lead than Neal or someone trying to shoot us back into a game.

I meant as of late with Tiago, the 1st Boston game seemed to be a turning point for him and the Spurs overall. He seems ,to me atleast, to disappear on offense after scoring like 8 points in the first half he scores like 2 pts in the second half. The team is still dominant on both sides of the ball with him on the court. They do seem to go away from him thats a fair point though. It may be tightening defense in the second halves of close games stopping him from scoring in the p&r.

[K-State Spur]

Al Jefferson says hi.

Dominant - I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[TheSkeptic]

I meant as of late with Tiago, the 1st Boston game seemed to be a turning point for him and the Spurs overall. He seems ,to me atleast, to disappear on offense after scoring like 8 points in the first half he scores like 2 pts in the second half. The team is still dominant on both sides of the ball with him on the court. They do seem to go away from him thats a fair point though. It may be tightening defense in the second halves of close games stopping him from scoring in the p&r.

Oh yeah then I'd agree with that. I think it goes both ways actually.

[Fabbs]

anything beats TP dribbling the ball like an idiot and then throwing it to Tim to bail him out
too many possessions he throws team ball out the window and resorts to this.
Vast improvement all season long and now regression.

[Man In Black]

There lies the problem for the playoffs. Even though they now have the Twin Towers again in the starting lineup, Pop still gets the team to play a more outside-in game and that wont help against the likes of the Thunder, Heat and perhaps the Grizzlies. You would think Pop would finally learn his lesson after years of busts.

Ball movement takes care of this. This would be more pertinent if the Spurs ran 4-Down like they did exclusively during Tim's MVP years, but even in the motion offense, there are lots of post up ops. I think that this board has overreacted to a the PHX loss because of a perceived weakness. Truthfully, if a team plays like shit, they should lose. Sometimes, you can get away with it, the Spurs ALMOST did, but the fix is to simply not play like shit. :) They have the players, the tool, the know-how...they just need to remember that they are Juggernauts.

[UZER]

Pop never goes to mismatches on offense...ever. Its always just keep running the offense regardless of who's on who. The only mismatch ever taken advantage of in this offense is when Parker gets a big man on him. Usually because they run the same pick and over and over on the same possession, and there is only like 8 seconds on the shot clock.

Other than that, I can't remember when I've seen Pop say screw the offense, we are going to exploit the mismatch and force them to make a change in their defensive strategy.

[rjv]

truthfully, when teams start collapsing in the paint during the playoffs to stop parker, it will be the perimeter players that will have to come through. but i do agree that kawhi will need to have a solid playoff run so that the spurs will essentially have a 'big four'.

[PingPong]

Splitter's screens have significative influence at Parker and Kawhi's performance. Parker against bigger defenders isn't the biggest issue in the last game, since the Suns annihilated the Spurs advantage when the micro-ball lineup was in the court. The starters have been fixing the bench mess , but there are some games that they arent able to do it. De Colo/Mills/Neal can't keep the Parker level as PG and Manu have been too sloppy. Fromthese points, I thing Parker handling against bigger defenders aren't the biggest issue by far...