Cory Joseph is the second best point guard on the Spurs

[timvp]

I know it's an extremely small NBA sample but I'm already convinced. He's looked strong in summer league, very solid with the Toros and he looked extremely comfortable tonight (and last game, for that matter).

What I like about Joseph:

1. He's by far the best defensive player of the backup point guard candidates. It's not even close. He has great instincts, deceptive size and athleticism, a hot motor and he reads plays well.

2. Joseph runs the show like a leader. He passes the eye-test as a point guard with the moxie to run the offense the way he sees fit. NBA PGs need to have a level of stubbornness to be effective ... and I see that in him.

3. His shot is improving rapidly. Last season, his jumper looked like a weather balloon. Now, he's shooting it with purpose, gets enough elevation and his release is pretty quick.

4. I don't see any ballhandling or passing fatal flaws. Joseph exhibits a lot of court vision and he can dribble in traffic while keeping his head up.

5. Joseph is a good fit next to Manu Ginobili. Due to his size, he can defend both ones and twos -- and that enables Ginobili to save energy defending the weakest opposing guard. On offense, his shooting allows him to play off the ball and create room for Ginobili to do what he do.


Pop starting Joseph tonight was a great move and I'm hoping it's a preview of things to come. Gary Neal, Patrick Mills and Nando De Colo have all shown intriguing skillsets but Joseph has a most complete package and he fits the mold of what the Spurs need in a backup point guard. Going with him full-time would be a bit of a gamble since he's so unproven but I believe it'd be the smart move -- both short-term and long-term.

[HI-FI]

i always liked the guy, not just cuz he's a Longhorn. happy to see Pop make the move tonight. CoJo, and our system for developing players, deserve a lot of credit.

[playblair]

word cojo haters its ok to come out now ................... same posters who hated on cojo hated on blair ...........................

[letmk]

Agreed. I am extremely happy that CoJo got the nod to start, but I'm eqaully disappointed that he didn't get 25+ minutes. With 21 games left, this is not time to make everyone happy by distributing minutes among them.

[Robz4000]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who felt this way. :tu

[loveforthegame]

Very impressed with his improvement. I hope he continues to get minutes while Parker is out whether he keeps the starting job or not.

[Ditty]

word cojo haters its ok to come out now ................... same posters who hated on cojo hated on blair ...........................

Yeah I've supported Joseph. Blair just sucks.

[naico]

Agree 100%

[timtonymanu]

I'm definitely rooting for Cojo (even with the very small sample size).

Unfortunately I think Pop is going with Neal, no matter what.

[swaggerjackson]

I think he played probably as good as he can play, but yea I certainly agree. He is the best defensive point guard we have, and he lacks a glaring weakness on offense. If he puts together a couple more solid games before TP gets back he will have a legitimate case for being the primary backup in the playoffs. But we need to see him a bit more before he unseats Neal.

[letmk]

Nothing against Nando, but if CoJo and Mills can hold their own or even better, they should be given minutes to develop. This applies to Nando as well if he is the one who is playing well.

[Das Texan]

I personally had a feeling that Joseph was going to get a legit shot at winning the backup point job when he was called up on Thursday.

De Colo, Mills and Neal have all had their moments but by and large have failed miserably at being the backup point.

I wouldnt be shocked at all if he seizes this job going forward. As long as Tony comes back at 90% or better, this might be a huge blessing in disguise by giving Joseph the confidence he needs to be a point guard in the NBA.

The Spurs need Joseph to seize this chance, if only because the other 3 have sucked at the job.

[8FOR!3]

I don't really understand not giving him more minutes though. It's not like he's old. I guess Pop doesn't want to risk him getting injured though, Patty Mills and De Colo aren't exactly guys I'd want starting right now.

[spurraider21]

word cojo haters its ok to come out now ................... same posters who hated on cojo hated on blair ...........................
I love CoJo............
i hate Blair..........
did I mention ............

....................

[RD2191]

I think he played probably as good as he can play, but yea I certainly agree. He is the best defensive point guard we have, and he lacks a glaring weakness on offense. If he puts together a couple more solid games before TP gets back he will have a legitimate case for being the primary backup in the playoffs. But we need to see him a bit more before he unseats Neal.
is this guy trolling?

[ace3g]

Paul Garcia PS ‏@24writer (https://twitter.com/24writer) Pop on Cory Joseph: “I thought he did a fine job. I liked his defense, he was really sticking his nose in.” #Spurs (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Spurs&src=hash) #Pistons (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Pistons&src=hash)

[benstanfield]

5. Joseph is a good fit next to Manu Ginobili. Due to his size, he can defend both ones and twos -- and that enables Ginobili to save energy defending the weakest opposing guard. On offense, his shooting allows him to play off the ball and create room for Ginobili to do what he do.


True, but it seemed like the gameplan tonight was to hide CoJo and put Manu on Calderon for a lot of minutes.

I definitely agree that he is the best option, but I think it might be too late in the season for him to earn the 10-12 minutes of backup PG duty in the playoffs we all know Pop is gonna give to Neal.

[Bill_Brasky]

I think Pop keeping Joseph on the bench when the game was already won was a sign that he values him a lot. If he plays this well the next couple of games he's easily the backup PG.

[timvp]

True, but it seemed like the gameplan tonight was to hide CoJo and put Manu on Calderon for a lot of minutes.

Calderon is a player Manu can defend. I'd rather have him on Calderon than players like Knight, Bynum or Stuckey.

[spurraider21]

C'mon timvp you're stalling making side posts. We want quick grades :hungry:

i kid. Good write up per par.
Seriously though...

[racm]

I like his game.

Got an opportunity to start and did very well.

[ace3g]

Elliott during the game mentioned that it was "real close" between Nando and CJ from coaches during camp on who would get back up PG minutes this season. So it isn't radical thinking that they liked the improvements CJ has made in Austin.

**

Also CJ has the ability to burn a defender that goes under screen with a 3 and like timvp said he can move over to spot up shooter when Manu takes over PG duties.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Yep Joseph pretty much has it all to play the back up point. He's athletic he can defend, shoot, dribble and run the pick and roll. Only thing he's got going against him is lack of nba expirence. But yeah he's the most complete of the back up point guards imho.

[TrainOfThought5]

is this guy trolling?

are you trolling?

[racm]

Calderon is a player Manu can defend. I'd rather have him on Calderon than players like Knight, Bynum or Stuckey.

Exactly. Joseph is better suited to defend quicker guards and Ginobili's a better off-ball defender (and the Pistons run a lot of plays to get Calderon open for a 3).

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Looks like his hunchback is gone too

[ace3g]

While I'm a little scared of Neal sneaking into back up PG spot as playoffs approach, Pop's defensive resurgence this year gives me more confidence he would consider the idea of a defensive back up PG instead of a shooter.

[Sean Cagney]

I agree and great thread, been waiting to see him out there.

[hater]

"2nd best PG in the Spurs"

that's not saying much.

[hooperflash]

Sensational performance, the benefits of running the Spurs system up in Austin! :toast

[jjktkk]

I can remember quite a few on here, thinking the Spurs reached for him in the draft.

[Brunodf]

Small sample

[DPG21920]

timvp - the only thing that matters is do you really believe CJ has a shot even if he plays well to be the de facto BUPG? Look at all the evidence from the season, the multiple guys having good games only to lose time to Neal.

[dunkman]

For some reason it took Pop too much time to give Cory his chance. By his second season Parker was running the show in the '03 title run.

[elemento]

It was such a pleasant surprise. I've always supported him so all I can say is that I am very happy for Joseph. Some Spurs fans should really learn how to be more patient SAS young players, especially one very young that came to the NBA as a freshman.

Cojo haters should shop up right now and apologize. Guys that said he wouldn't even have his TO picked look bad right now.

[romsho]

Ageed. He really is the only other true point guard on the roster, tbh. Gary Neal shouldn't see another minute at the point.

[HarlemHeat37]

Agreed, by default..

I was impressed by Joseph tonight, particularly his improved offense..

I'm still worried that he's soft, based on previous PT, but it could have been attributed to being nervous and green..Wednesday's game should be a decent test..

Regardless, his ball-handling, defense and youth should be enough to warrant a bigger role than the other PGs on the roster..

[AFBlue]

I saw this kid play in-person last year against Houston in the pre-season. He was as raw as can be, but he played aggresively with that "moxie." He knew none of the plays and couldn't shoot the ball, but he just made plays happen on the court.

I always thought the kid had the potential to be good if he worked hard, and I'm glad he's making good on it.

[playblair]

It was such a pleasant surprise. I've always supported him so all I can say is that I am very happy for Joseph. Some Spurs fans should really learn how to be more patient SAS young players, especially one very young that came to the NBA as a freshman.

Cojo haters should shop up right now and apologize. Guys that said he wouldn't even have his TO picked look bad right now.

word.....................

[callo1]

I was on this train before it left the station. Cojo is the second best pg no doubt.

[DesignatedT]

Well that's the thing. People keep referencing that Neal keeps getting the nod in the playoffs but sometimes he might be playing the 2 while Manu is running point. Obviously Neal shouldn't see a minute without Tony or Manu in the game but playing him next to Manu might need to stop as well and he isn't really running the pg spot at that point.

Pop isn't really going back to Neal at PG in the playoffs like some say but he's going back to letting Manu play that role. If you are against that then your stance should be for CoJo to take virtually all of Neal's minutes and let Manu strictly play the 2 guard.

[AFBlue]

I saw this kid play in-person last year against Houston in the pre-season. He was as raw as can be, but he played aggresively with that "moxie." He knew none of the plays and couldn't shoot the ball, but he just made plays happen on the court.

I always thought the kid had the potential to be good if he worked hard, and I'm glad he's making good on it.

P.S. This was the same game where Kawhi hit a step-back 20ft jumpshot at the buzzer to win. I knew then the Spurs had a cold-blooded stud on their hands.

[KaiRMD1]

We stacked?

[letmk]

Well that's the thing. People keep referencing that Neal keeps getting the nod in the playoffs but sometimes he might be playing the 2 while Manu is running point. Obviously Neal shouldn't see a minute without Tony or Manu in the game but playing him next to Manu might need to stop as well and he isn't really running the pg spot at that point.

Pop isn't really going back to Neal at PG in the playoffs like some say but he's going back to letting Manu play that role. If you are against that then your stance should be for CoJo to take virtually all of Neal's minutes and let Manu strictly play the 2 guard.

This. Neal is down right now, but he is still the best pure shooter in this team (Maybe between him and Bonner, but Bonner had been given enough chance). He is valuable to this team, and it's just that you can let him handle the ball.

[racm]

The 2011 draft was underrated by scouts.

[DesignatedT]

I'm not for totally benching Neal at this point. I'm not saying I wont take that stance in the future but the guy has proven he can hit big shots over and over again. I definitely do not want him handling the ball, but like I said earlier, in the playoffs when him and Manu are out there he isn't really running the point anyway. I am for Joseph getting pretty much all of Mills + De Colo's minutes at this point though. I think the Spurs should give Gary some minutes but let him play the 2 guard where he is comfortable.

[MI21]

I'm not as completely sold on him offensively as timvp just yet but defensively he is absolutely light years ahead of Mills, De Colo or Neal and his ability to pass the ball is far ahead of Mills and Neal as well. He is an intriguing prospect that's for sure, I think there is room for him in the playoff rotation, particularly when the Spurs are playing with the lead.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I totally agree that CoJo looked really solid out there tonight. :tu

I wonder why Pop waited until so late in the season to bring him in for a real run?

[timvp]

Small sampleCool story.


timvp - the only thing that matters is do you really believe CJ has a shot even if he plays well to be the de facto BUPG? Look at all the evidence from the season, the multiple guys having good games only to lose time to Neal.I'd say Neal has the inside track for the spot right now but it's far from set in stone. In recent weeks, Pop has been going out of his way to not play Neal at PG. I don't even remember the last game when Neal was the backup PG, tbh.

CJ has a few things going for him in the challenge of winning Pop over:

1. If Pop is going to really stress D, CJ has to have a big advantage -- especially over Neal.

2. He can shoot. CJ hit damn near 50% of his threes with the Toros. If he keeps knocking 'em down, it makes less sense to go with Neal (or Mills) for scoring purposes.

3. He's not much of a risk-taker on offense. Dumb turnovers by the backup point guard is one of Pop's pet peeves.


I'm still worried that he's soft, based on previous PT

If by "previous" you mean last season, I think we can just erase that year from our memory. He certainly didn't gain any toughness growing up in Canada. Then, I'm not even sure they teach basketball at UT (has a player ever improved under Barnes?). He didn't have a summer league or a training camp due to the lockout. Add it up and he was one of the greenest rookies I've ever seen.

But he's been on a crash course since the end of his rookie season and he has taken mammoth steps. He's not even comparable to the player he was as a rookie, tbh. Hell, by summer league he was a totally different player. By now he might as well be given a new name, fwiw.

[eDizzle20]

I love the tenacity and effort that Cojo plays with. Even though all players go through playing shooting slumps if the defensive effort and tenacity keep up it is still worth having that player on the court. The West is filled with great point guards and on the Spurs to me Cojo seems like the best defensively. Even though I hate seeing Parker out it could help the Spurs find out who their definitive point guard is. So far after one game Cojo looked the best.

[jag]

Agreed, by default..

[racm]

I totally agree that CoJo looked really solid out there tonight. :tu

I wonder why Pop waited until so late in the season to bring him in for a real run?

He thought Nando could take the backup spot. And he didn't. Meanwhile CoJo tore it up in the D-League.

[purist]

Cojo is not for these playoffs. A step tonight, but not fair to put too much on one performance.
2nd best pt guard on team is still Manu

[ChumpDumper]

I can remember quite a few on here, thinking the Spurs reached for him in the draft.Probably still a reach, or at least a gamble.

Looks like it's starting to pay off though.

[Gagnrath]

It was one game and some very limited time earlier in the season, this is intriguing and a good thing it also makes things look good long term. I still think he came out of college a year to early. All that said its rounding out to be a good thing for the team, I hope this play continues out of him and he is on the play-off roster. Mills is just Neal light slightly better on defense and slightly worse of a shooter. Diaw, Duncan, Splitter, Jackson, Leonard, Neal, Green, Manu, Parker, Cory, Baynes, and Bonner should be the play-off 12. Neal hasn't lost his shot just been slightly hurt, and this semi forced back-uppoint role has has shown that while not exactly ideal its not a horrid thing. In the long run it will make him more valuable either as a spur or for another team as a Back-up combo guard and should help his passing and ballhandling as a 2. I really see this more as a case of the spurs perhaps getting this a year to soon, unless his progression is more steady and continous than is likely he can't really be counted on for much play time in the play-offs. As likely the primary back-up next year he will be looked at in that offseason as a likely canidate to leave for a place where he could start that's not happening with the spurs. At that point it will be two straight years of good progression so someone will likely be willing to outspend the spurs even though they had spent all that time and resources developing him. The spurs are getting even more stacked up at guard and the bigs in development still aren't looking strong (baynes has potential to become a solid rotation player but isn't going to become a star and there isn't much else that the spurs have rights to.)

[racm]

Probably still a reach, or at least a gamble.

Looks like it's starting to pay off though.

The Spurs traded their backup point guard for an SF when they had RJ on the roster.

They signed a swingman cut by the Cavs and eventually turned him into their starting SG.

[Gagnrath]

The Spurs traded their backup point guard for an SF when they had RJ on the roster.

They signed a swingman cut by the Cavs and eventually turned him into their starting SG.


Hill is doing a good job for the pacers and is quality as a starter there. It is/was a good trade for both teams. I think the spurs came out slightly ahead but the pacers wouldn't have taken leonard so who knows how that would have turned out.

The cavs are playing gee a lot as is green both of those players are rotation quality swingmen that weren't quite fitting in the others team for what ever reason call it an offseason waiver trade more than anything.

[racm]

Hill is doing a good job for the pacers and is quality as a starter there. It is/was a good trade for both teams. I think the spurs came out slightly ahead but the pacers wouldn't have taken leonard so who knows how that would have turned out.

The cavs are playing gee a lot as is green both of those players are rotation quality swingmen that weren't quite fitting in the others team for what ever reason call it an offseason waiver trade more than anything.

My point was that the Spurs took a risk by trading established players and scooping up prospects from under the radar.

[DPG21920]

Neal hasn't been playing PG because of the injuries IMO - not because Pop doesn't want him too. Despite how many times a guy like De Colo or Mills steps up and has a good game, Neal almost instantly gets the nod when he's assumed to be near full health.

[007nites]

tbh Corey is hanging out with Blair and Diaw too much. He's looking chubby.

[silverblackfan]

You would have to agree that if he performed as least as good as tonight, he is definitely the best point guard. I know it was Detroit, but the defense was very good tonight. Cojo was key in that defense. Very quick and lively out there. Calm and good movement of the ball. He got at least a few highlight worthy "hockey" assists tonight.
I hope Pop gives him a few more starts to see if this is the real deal or just the a good night. I am betting we are seeing the Spurs new back up PG.

[AFBlue]

tbh Corey is hanging out with Blair and Diaw too much. He's looking chubby.

Baby fat tbh

[DapDaGenius]

word cojo haters its ok to come out now ................... same posters who hated on cojo hated on blair ...........................

Who hates CoJo? I've never read a post that was speaking ill of Joseph. Joseph is good, I've thought he should be back PG and also, I've seen multiple ST readers give Joseph credit as "our best back up PG when it comes to defense", when he was with us early. Now he is getting credit as the overall best back up PG. I hope he stays to. He has worked so hard in the D-league.

[ThePop]

I guess he'll be staying for the next month. If he continues to play like this he will never go back to the D league.

[Gagnrath]

Especially at this point of the year and next month many NBA players are exceedingly light for their frames, between practicing and playing 2 and 3 games per week you have fairly muscular men well over 6' tall weighing under 200 lbs. Cory hasn't had quite the scheduale or travel as the rest of the team.

[Ice009]

I know it's an extremely small NBA sample but I'm already convinced. He's looked strong in summer league, very solid with the Toros and he looked extremely comfortable tonight (and last game, for that matter).

What I like about Joseph:

1. He's by far the best defensive player of the backup point guard candidates. It's not even close. He has great instincts, deceptive size and athleticism, a hot motor and he reads plays well.

2. Joseph runs the show like a leader. He passes the eye-test as a point guard with the moxie to run the offense the way he sees fit. NBA PGs need to have a level of stubbornness to be effective ... and I see that in him.

3. His shot is improving rapidly. Last season, his jumper looked like a weather balloon. Now, he's shooting it with purpose, gets enough elevation and his release is pretty quick.

4. I don't see any ballhandling or passing fatal flaws. Joseph exhibits a lot of court vision and he can dribble in traffic while keeping his head up.

5. Joseph is a good fit next to Manu Ginobili. Due to his size, he can defend both ones and twos -- and that enables Ginobili to save energy defending the weakest opposing guard. On offense, his shooting allows him to play off the ball and create room for Ginobili to do what he do.


Pop starting Joseph tonight was a great move and I'm hoping it's a preview of things to come. Gary Neal, Patrick Mills and Nando De Colo have all shown intriguing skillsets but Joseph has a most complete package and he fits the mold of what the Spurs need in a backup point guard. Going with him full-time would be a bit of a gamble since he's so unproven but I believe it'd be the smart move -- both short-term and long-term.

Why didn't you step up and call for him to get a chance earlier in the season?

Bruno and myself have asked for Cory to get a shot since early December. There might be a few other posters that have been calling for him too, I just don't recall many people saying he should get a chance that early though. Bruno has been consistently saying that Cory should get a shot at it, so good to see that he got one tonight.

When I saw him starting tonight, I was really excited, especially about the defensive energy that he could bring. He didn't disappoint me, and he was good on offense too. I guess the time in Austin helped him out as far as running the point, but yeah, I always wanted him to get a legit shot this season because of his defensive potential.

I want him to stay in the rotation if he keeps running the point like he did. He is just so much better on defense than the other point guards, I don't see how you could not include him in the rotation. Defense will be crucial in the playoffs.

[siraulo23]

joseph's got everything spurs need for a backup pg, only glaring issue is his jumpshot. If he can hit his mid range and 3 pointers at a reasonable rate, he's gotta be the spurs backup pg

[Tuddy]

Toros investment paying off

[AFBlue]

Who hates CoJo? I've never read a post that was speaking ill of Joseph. Joseph is good, I've thought he should be back PG and also, I've seen multiple ST readers give Joseph credit as "our best back up PG when it comes to defense", when he was with us early. Now he is getting credit as the overall best back up PG. I hope he stays to. He has worked so hard in the D-league.

"Hater" is a strong word, but there were plenty of folks who saw a player last year that was clearly not ready for the NBA. And the criticism was legitimate...he had no perimeter game and lacked real experience "running the show" because he came out so early. He was a "projection" pick.

Fortuntely for the Spurs (and in no small part, due to them) that "projection" has a decent chance of turning into solid production.

[TD 21]

I'd say Neal has the inside track for the spot right now but it's far from set in stone. In recent weeks, Pop has been going out of his way to not play Neal at PG. I don't even remember the last game when Neal was the backup PG, tbh.

He'll always do that if Ginobili is out (it's a no brainer). The real test is whether he'll do it when Ginobili's in and there's been very few instances this season where he has.


1. If Pop is going to really stress D, CJ has to have a big advantage -- especially over Neal.

They're 3rd in defensive efficiency. I know it's like shooting, in that you can't have too much, but I doubt that role comes down to defense. A PG can only have so much of an impact on defense, particularly a backup one who's only going to get roughly 10 mpg in the playoffs. I realize to come out of the West, they've got to go through Westbrook and potentially Paul, but the backup isn't going to play more than spot minutes against them anyway.

This role is more about offense than anything -- specifically, being an offensive fit next to Ginobili.


2. He can shoot. CJ hit damn near 50% of his threes with the Toros. If he keeps knocking 'em down, it makes less sense to go with Neal (or Mills) for scoring purposes.

He probably has to shoot at least league average (36%), with a reasonable amount of volume, for Pop to even think about making him the permanent primary backup for the remainder of the season.

Speaking of which, Pop had this to say: “He’s gotten his opportunity, and he seems to be taking advantage of it.”

[DapDaGenius]

"Hater" is a strong word, but there were plenty of folks who saw a player last year that was clearly not ready for the NBA. And the criticism was legitimate...he had no perimeter game and lacked real experience "running the show" because he came out so early. He was a "projection" pick.

Fortuntely for the Spurs (and in no small part, due to them) that "projection" has a decent chance of turning into solid production.

Oh yeah no doubt, Joseph was not NBA ready last season. I still believed in him, but it was obvious he needed some time in the D-league. As a back up PG for a while, he could really turn into a good player.

[ace3g]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/sites/spurs/files/imagecache/image_gallery_default/130303_13.jpg

http://www.nba.com/spurs/sites/spurs/files/imagecache/image_gallery_default/130303_1.jpg

[therealtruth]

They're 3rd in defensive efficiency. I know it's like shooting, in that you can't have too much, but I doubt that role comes down to defense. A PG can only have so much of an impact on defense, particularly a backup one who's only going to get roughly 10 mpg in the playoffs. I realize to come out of the West, they've got to go through Westbrook and potentially Paul, but the backup isn't going to play more than spot minutes against them anyway.

Got to disagree. Your point guard is your first line of defense. You need a good defender at that spot.

[AFBlue]

Got to disagree. Your point guard is your first line of defense. You need a good defender at that spot.

I'll add...10 minutes in a playoff game makes a huge difference. Having a solid defender on the opponent's lead guard and facilitator for 48 minutes would be HUGE in the playoffs.

[TD 21]

Got to disagree. Your point guard is your first line of defense. You need a good defender at that spot.

It's nice to have, but you don't need it like you need a good defender on the interior to anchor your defense. A PG can't come close to having the same level of impact defensively.

[Boomersgold]

Yeah I've supported Joseph. Blair just sucks.

Always thought that Cojo had NBA potential. Blair just sucks at his position.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Yeah I've supported Joseph. Blair just sucks.

x2

[DrunkTXLabrat]

decolo is wetting the bed though. cojo is gonna have his work cut out for him if decolo grows le pair.

[timvp]

Why didn't you step up and call for him to get a chance earlier in the season?

Bruno and myself have asked for Cory to get a shot since early December. There might be a few other posters that have been calling for him too, I just don't recall many people saying he should get a chance that early though. Bruno has been consistently saying that Cory should get a shot at it, so good to see that he got one tonight.

The hell? I've been on the CJ bandwagon since summer league. In the "Electing the Backup Point Guard" thread, I said this:


Coming into the summer, the Spurs probably had Joseph penciled into Austin's starting lineup. But his play this summer has been good enough to make them reconsider that penciling.

Personally, I'm rooting for Joseph in this competition. He's a definite darkhorse right now but I like his defensive potential and the fact that he's probably the only one of the four who could possibly be the long-term starter down the road. Plus, if he wins the competition, it means he has become an undeniable force.

Go CJ :tu

If anything, I'm biased in CJ's favor because I've thought the whole season that he's the best man for the job. He convinced me in summer league that he's an NBA caliber player. As his skillset has evolved, he now fits even better than he did previously.


I'm surprised Joseph hasn't gotten a legit chance at winning that job. Especially with the other candidates not exactly tearing it up. De Colo shows some Beno tendencies when he's pressured. Mills just isn't a PG. Neal is a liiiiittle bit more of a PG than Mills but it's painfully obvious that he's better at SG.

I'm guessing Neal will still win out when all is said and done but, man, Joseph being able to dribble, pass and play D is enticing giving the alternatives.


I hope that Joseph gets a shot at backup point guard.

tbh.....

[Boomersgold]

The hell? I've been on the CJ bandwagon since summer league. In the "Electing the Backup Point Guard" thread, I said this:



If anything, I'm biased in CJ's favor because I've thought the whole season that he's the best man for the job. He convinced me in summer league that he's an NBA caliber player. As his skillset has evolved, he now fits even better than he did previously.





tbh.....

How would you define a "real Point Guard" then, timvp?

[timvp]

He'll always do that if Ginobili is out (it's a no brainer). The real test is whether he'll do it when Ginobili's in and there's been very few instances this season where he has.Ginobili has been back for a while now and Neal hasn't gone back to backup PG yet. Not sure where you're steering that ship, tbh.


A PG can only have so much of an impact on defense, particularly a backup one who's only going to get roughly 10 mpg in the playoffs. In the playoffs last year, Neal got shredded by Eric Bledsoe and couldn't even hang with the corpse of Derek Fisher.

On a whole, the bench sucked last year in the playoffs ... and the backup point guard issues played a huge part in that, IMO.

[Boomersgold]

In the playoffs last year, Neal got shredded by Eric Bledsoe and couldn't even hang with the corpse of Derek Fisher.



Bledsoe and Westbrook are about as far off from a "real point guard" as Blair is from a "real center". They're both shooting guards, tbh.

[capek]

Gotta agree. Cory impressed me tonight, mainly just with how comfortable he looked out there. Haven't really seen that much out of De Colo or Mills for long stretches. Could the main silver lining that comes out of Tony's injury be that CoJo gets a chance, and earns the back up pg spot? Having a solid defender as the back up pg sure could help in the playoffs.

[spurraider21]

With TP out, the starting PG spot will hopefully stay as CoJo's until he does something bad enough to lose it. If he can actually keep playing at today's level, he will definitely earn himself a rotation spot. Considering how deep into the season we are in, he's going to need as many minutes (and starts) as he can get in order to gain Pop's trust in the playoffs. I mean, I doubt we will see CoJo in 4th quarters of big games (Tony, Manu, Green, Neal) but he can definitely make an impact in the middle quarters as TP is getting his rest

[spurraider21]

How would you define a "real Point Guard" then, timvp?


Bledsoe and Westbrook are about as far off from a "real point guard" as Blair is from a "real center". They're both shooting guards, tbh.

I don't really see where you're going with these posts. If Tony is on the bench, who is going to defend Bledsoe? Who is going to defend Westbrook? Manu isn't quick enough anymore to deal with guys like this, so its either going to be Neal, Nando, Mills, or CoJo. CoJo is clearly the best fit to defend these guys, which are guys we will have to contend with come playoff time

[Boomersgold]

I don't really see where you're going with these posts. If Tony is on the bench, who is going to defend Bledsoe? Who is going to defend Westbrook? Manu isn't quick enough anymore to deal with guys like this, so its either going to be Neal, Nando, Mills, or CoJo. CoJo is clearly the best fit to defend these guys, which are guys we will have to contend with come playoff time

Timvp has always been one of those that criticizes Nando, Neal and Mills for not being "true point guards" without defining what a "true point guard" really is. I'm curious to know what his definition of a point guard is.

He then says that Neal got "shredded" by Bledsoe in the playoffs last season. Almost everyone on here can agree that Bledsoe isn't a true point guard. If OKC are able to get by without a true point guard (they use Westbrook and Bledsoe), then I don't see why we need to constantly dismiss Neal, Mills and Nando from the backup pg spot, even if they play well, just because they aren't "true point guards".

I agree that Cojo's by far our best defender, but if he does become our backup for the playoffs, he'll be defending a SG that so happens to be playing the PG.

[Ice009]

Always thought that Cojo had NBA potential. Blair just sucks at his position.

Well Cory has always played defense, which is why I wanted him having a legit chance to earn minutes. I always want defense first, and players with good defensive potential always get a chance with me.

If Blair started out playing solid defense and built his game around that, while adding his offensive game to the mix, he'd still be in the rotation.

[Ice009]

Timvp has always been one of those that criticizes Nando, Neal and Mills for not being "true point guards" without defining what a "true point guard" really is. I'm curious to know what his definition of a point guard is.

He then says that Neal got "shredded" by Bledsoe in the playoffs last season. Almost everyone on here can agree that Bledsoe isn't a true point guard. If OKC are able to get by without a true point guard (they use Westbrook and Bledsoe), then I don't see why we need to constantly dismiss Neal, Mills and Nando from the backup pg spot, even if they play well, just because they aren't "true point guards".

I agree that Cojo's by far our best defender, but if he does become our backup for the playoffs, he'll be defending a SG that so happens to be playing the PG.

Their defense sucks and they can't run the offense. What more do you need to know?

Even if Westbrook and Bledsoe aren't great at running offenses, they can play defense and score a lot. Mills and Neal can score, but that is about it. They're not really good at anything else.

[spurraider21]

Timvp has always been one of those that criticizes Nando, Neal and Mills for not being "true point guards" without defining what a "true point guard" really is. I'm curious to know what his definition of a point guard is.

He then says that Neal got "shredded" by Bledsoe in the playoffs last season. Almost everyone on here can agree that Bledsoe isn't a true point guard. If OKC are able to get by without a true point guard (they use Westbrook and Bledsoe), then I don't see why we need to constantly dismiss Neal, Mills and Nando from the backup pg spot, even if they play well, just because they aren't "true point guards".

I agree that Cojo's by far our best defender, but if he does become our backup for the playoffs, he'll be defending a SG that so happens to be playing the PG.

I think Nando is a "true point guard" or at least close to it. I think his definition of a point guard is somebody who can comfortably bring the ball up the court, get us into our sets, run the offense, and run pick and rolls effectively. Mills and Neal are more like undersized shooting guards than point guards. Neal is notorious for "killing the offense" with his shots, but I'm still a fan of him and the whole "neal with it" campaign. Nando runs the offense decently, but he's too turnover prone for a backup gig. If your starter is explosive but turns it over a la prime wade, its fine, but a backup should be careful and focus on "not screwing up." Nando needs another offseason or even d-league time tbh. Cory fits the mold awesomely, at least from what we've seen in limited stints. He just looks natural out there. Nando often looks like he's forcing things, and scoring doesn't come second nature to him

[ElNono]

Agreed, tbh... only Manu is better than CoJo at running the point...

On a more serious note, I really liked what he did on defense. The question mark is if it's sustainable. Also, I thought the team didn't respect him early on and everyone was trying to do their thing without letting him run the offense. It was better in the second half, but the team needs to trust him and let him manage the reins...

[chapnis]

Will be interesting to see how CoJo goes against semi-decent opponents

[Brunodf]

Agreed, tbh... only Manu is better than CoJo at running the point...

On a more serious note, I really liked what he did on defense. The question mark is if it's sustainable. Also, I thought the team didn't respect him early on and everyone was trying to do their thing without letting him run the offense. It was better in the second half, but the team needs to trust him and let him manage the reins...

i still think it's small sample, Timvp already ranking CoJo above TP after 1 game...

[racm]

Next few games CoJo will be defending:

Nate Robinson
Damian Lillard (!)
Russell Westbrook (!!)
Ricky Rubio
Darren Collison

:stirpot:

[John B]

CoJo's time with the Toros definitely helped him sharpened his skills and developed his leadership. It's the consistency of playing major minutes every night with the Toro's instead of sporadic garbage time with the Spurs that helped him. I think they should do the same for Nando to get the same nightly experience. Nando have already shown traits of great passing skills, of shooting jumpers and attacking the basket. But he needs to learn to do it every night, plus sticking his nose on defense. And Neal would be much better if allowed to play his natural position of being a SG, catch and shoot on a screen, likewise Patty with his instant offense with the 2nd unit and not having to be forced to create for others. Keep it up. I see bright futures for the Spurs next guards.

Now with Splitter, Baynes and possibly Richards for the bigs...

[John B]

Well Cory has always played defense, which is why I wanted him having a legit chance to earn minutes. I always want defense first, and players with good defensive potential always get a chance with me.

If Blair started out playing solid defense and built his game around that, while adding his offensive game to the mix, he'd still be in the rotation.

Agree

[MSPaint]

He played a very good game tonight, but it's going to take more than two games to see what he's made of. I sure do hope he turns out as good as some of the credit he's already getting suggest.

[blkroadrunners]

Next few games CoJo will be defending:

Nate Robinson
Damian Lillard (!)
Russell Westbrook (!!)
Ricky Rubio
Darren Collison

:stirpot:

lol

[MSPaint]

lol

I hear the mavs call Darren Collison DaCo, similar to our own CoJo.

[MR-Clutch]

I've said since the summer league that he should be our backup. This kid has skill and knows where to pick his spots on offense.

[MR-Clutch]

Who hates CoJo? I've never read a post that was speaking ill of Joseph. Joseph is good, I've thought he should be back PG and also, I've seen multiple ST readers give Joseph credit as "our best back up PG when it comes to defense", when he was with us early. Now he is getting credit as the overall best back up PG. I hope he stays to. He has worked so hard in the D-league.

There were a ton of haters his first year or two. It was unbelievable. I've been a fan since we drafted him and I'm so happy to seem him living up to his potential thus far.

[waisman]

Joseph　was good .
But , start lineup lack TP is no offence option .
TP drive , Green & Kawhi 3P .

[spurraider21]

CoJo, Green, Kawhi, Splitter, Baynes... there is some hope after all

[DapDaGenius]

CoJo, Green, Kawhi, Splitter, Baynes... there is some hope after all

playblair: "Blair......Blair...............................Bla ir................................................ ......Blair....................................... ..................Blair"

[racm]

CoJo, Green, Kawhi, Splitter, Baynes... there is some hope after all

R.C. Buford has never won an Executive of the Year award despite getting Pop guys who fit the system excellently.

[Ice009]

The hell? I've been on the CJ bandwagon since summer league. In the "Electing the Backup Point Guard" thread, I said this:



If anything, I'm biased in CJ's favor because I've thought the whole season that he's the best man for the job. He convinced me in summer league that he's an NBA caliber player. As his skillset has evolved, he now fits even better than he did previously.

I don't recall going into that thread, if I did, I obviously forgot about it. My bad on that one. I'm pretty sure I never read that thread to begin with though.

Usually, you would push harder if you wanted a player to get a chance. I would have thought that you would have started a new thread about it in the last month or so with all the struggles Neal has been going through. If you really believed in Joseph, I would have thought you would be bringing it up more often. I haven't personally read much in the last month or two where you've called for Joseph to get a real, legit shot at it. Maybe you have been and I just haven't come across those particular posts? Bruno is the only one that I've read, consistently, calling for him to get a shot at it. Again, if you have been saying it recently, sorry, I have missed your posts on it.

[Brazil]

just for the sake of it, I can foresee the threads in two/three weeks, Cojo is good enough let's trade TP for a big and give the keys of the truck to the young gun.

[Brazil]

awesome debut btw :tu

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I'm definitely rooting for Cojo (even with the very small sample size).

Unfortunately I think Pop is going with Neal, no matter what.

Funny how Neal played last night even though he's still injured. I was surprised to see him and even my wife mentioned the same thing. Maybe Neal hears footsteps behind him.

[mrjap2x]

Is there a video of a postgame interview of Cory Joseph?

[Darkwaters]

I was definitely among those that watched Cory Joe last year and seriously wondered if he'd ever be a viable NBA player. He just looked so bad last year. However, since Summer League hes shown so much freaking improvement. But with so many other more veteran options ahead of him I figured it was another full season in Austin.

I fully support him getting his crack at winning the back-up job though. Nando, Patty and Gary all had their turns and failed to really do much with that chance. Long-term, Cory has the most complete game and theoretically would be the best choice. I wish him the best! We definitely need him to step up.

[Boomersgold]

I think Nando is a "true point guard" or at least close to it. I think his definition of a point guard is somebody who can comfortably bring the ball up the court, get us into our sets, run the offense, and run pick and rolls effectively. Mills and Neal are more like undersized shooting guards than point guards. Neal is notorious for "killing the offense" with his shots, but I'm still a fan of him and the whole "neal with it" campaign. Nando runs the offense decently, but he's too turnover prone for a backup gig. If your starter is explosive but turns it over a la prime wade, its fine, but a backup should be careful and focus on "not screwing up." Nando needs another offseason or even d-league time tbh. Cory fits the mold awesomely, at least from what we've seen in limited stints. He just looks natural out there. Nando often looks like he's forcing things, and scoring doesn't come second nature to him

Some folks on here consider Nando to be a shooting guard as he lacks the size and speed to defend the quicker NBA point guards. I can definitely agree that Patty and Neal aren't real point guards in the definition that you've given, but fortunately for them, they don't have to be. Manu provides the play making and offense running that a Nash-like point guard usually does, which allows Patty and Neal to do what they do best,which is to SCORE.



Nando, Patty and Gary all had their turns and failed to really do much with that chance. Long-term, Cory has the most complete game and theoretically would be the best choice. I wish him the best! We definitely need him to step up.

I don't really understand why people say that Patty's failed to really do much with the limited opportunities that he's been given. I mean, if I remember correctly, Patty, when played with Manu, gives the Spurs the largest point differential per 100 possessions of any pair in the Spurs.

[Darkwaters]

I don't really understand why people say that Patty's failed to really do much with the limited opportunities that he's been given. I mean, if I remember correctly, Patty, when played with Manu, gives the Spurs the largest point differential per 100 possessions of any pair in the Spurs.

Yes, because Patty is playing as a SG beside PG Manu. He really hasn't shown any ability to exist on his own without Manu.

Besides, there was a thread recently discussing how a huge chunk of Patty's numbers come in garbage time, and his stats aren't nearly as appealing when you consider those taken during close games.

Regardless, I like Patty. But he hasn't shown any ability to be a floor general. Hes been better served as a change of pace offensive sparkplug.

[Boomersgold]

Yes, because Patty is playing as a SG beside PG Manu. He really hasn't shown any ability to exist on his own without Manu.

Besides, there was a thread recently discussing how a huge chunk of Patty's numbers come in garbage time, and his stats aren't nearly as appealing when you consider those taken during close games.

Regardless, I like Patty. But he hasn't shown any ability to be a floor general. Hes been better served as a change of pace offensive sparkplug.

I did read timvp's thread, and his argument was flawed. His thread was based on Patty's playing time when the Spurs are down by 10, and being down by 10 isn't always "garbage time". Besides, Manu rarely ever plays in garbage time, so the Manu-Patty positive point differential for the Spurs does say something about how Patty's played as the backup point guard.

[superbigtime]

Cojo looked really good. I think Pop was doing PG by committee.

[ajballer4]

Next few games CoJo will be defending:

Nate Robinson
Damian Lillard (!)
Russell Westbrook (!!)
Ricky Rubio
Darren Collison

:stirpot:

He's got kyrie coming up soon after that. That'll be the toughest matchup for him yet

[dbestpro]

I'm not buying the CoJo kool-aid. He played a fairly pedestrian game in a blow out. We don't even know if he can run the pick and roll with any effeciency. Some folks just want the kid to be good and see him through rose colored glasses. Most of the game he brought the ball up and simply passed the ball to someone else who who ran the half court play. He may have some game at some point, but there is no way you can validate his game from this particular blow out.

[Darkwaters]

I did read timvp's thread, and his argument was flawed. His thread was based on Patty's playing time when the Spurs are down by 10, and being down by 10 isn't always "garbage time". Besides, Manu rarely ever plays in garbage time, so the Manu-Patty positive point differential for the Spurs does say something about how Patty's played as the backup point guard.

That doesn't change the fact that Patty is an undersized SG. If he was a bit bigger nobody would realistically be talking about him as an option at PG. The only reason we're having that discussion is because of his height. Thats kind of a deal breaker when you can't run the offense.

Look, I really like Patty and what he often brings as far as energy and a scoring punch. But he isn't a PG.

[benefactor]

Got to disagree. Your point guard is your first line of defense. You need a good defender at that spot.
Don't pay an attention to him. He just says things to try to be different from everyone else and most of the time it's just his ass talking.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not buying the CoJo kool-aid. He played a fairly pedestrian game in a blow out. We don't even know if he can run the pick and roll with any effeciency. Some folks just want the kid to be good and see him through rose colored glasses. Most of the game he brought the ball up and simply passed the ball to someone else who who ran the half court play. He may have some game at some point, but there is no way you can validate his game from this particular blow out.Actually bringing up the ball and initiating the offense has been a bit of a problem with some of our backups.

[Pop]

It's nice to have, but you don't need it like you need a good defender on the interior to anchor your defense. A PG can't come close to having the same level of impact defensively.

Bledsoe is an example of a backup PG having a huge impact with his defense. If Cojo can have even fraction of that impact it'd be worth it.

[Pop]

I'm not buying the CoJo kool-aid. He played a fairly pedestrian game in a blow out. We don't even know if he can run the pick and roll with any effeciency. Some folks just want the kid to be good and see him through rose colored glasses. Most of the game he brought the ball up and simply passed the ball to someone else who who ran the half court play. He may have some game at some point, but there is no way you can validate his game from this particular blow out.

What I'd agree with is how everyone is coming out of the woodwork to say how brilliant he is. He's better than the other two on D, that's enough for him to clinch the spot, he's also probably worse than the other two offensively, no need to see him through rose colored glasses to say he's the best to clinch the weakest spot in the rotation.

[MR-Clutch]

I'm not buying the CoJo kool-aid. He played a fairly pedestrian game in a blow out. We don't even know if he can run the pick and roll with any effeciency. Some folks just want the kid to be good and see him through rose colored glasses. Most of the game he brought the ball up and simply passed the ball to someone else who who ran the half court play. He may have some game at some point, but there is no way you can validate his game from this particular blow out.

You're right, but the offense flowed brilliantly with Joseph in the game,and we've seen how it can stall with Decolo and Mills. Cojo has his own unique version of how the PG is played in our system, and he made so many of the right plays (hockey assists, defense, etc), while playing within the offense.

[MR-Clutch]

Also, maybe its just the way they move, but, Joseph has a bit of Maurice Cheeks to his game.

[Darius McCrary]

I hope he gets true starter quality minutes. Pop gave George Hill mad mad playing time as a rookie when Parker went down in similar fashion. Cory has done everything that's been asked of him and he deserves his shot. Hell, he deserved it thirty games ago.

However, i agree with DPG that Pop will find a way to give the lions share of minutes to Neal.

[ace3g]

Is there a video of a postgame interview of Cory Joseph?

not post game but practice interview from today:

http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/03/04/130304josephmov-2403585

[TheGoldStandard]

Corey played very well and he has crazy upside (he's only 21), he has great size and he's determined to win the job. Just have to hope Pop gives him the ball to run with during this month long run and not Gary Neal which spells disaster.

[Bruno]

Parker about the backup PG slot on his radio show:
Pop was a little disappointed about what Mills and De Colo have done lately and that's why he called up Joseph. The competition is open between all three for the spot and, without me, they will have 3 weeks to show what they can do.

[Obstructed_View]

Will be interesting to see how CoJo goes against semi-decent opponents

You mean like the guards who shredded Parker and Neal two weeks ago?

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not buying the CoJo kool-aid. He played a fairly pedestrian game in a blow out. We don't even know if he can run the pick and roll with any effeciency. Some folks just want the kid to be good and see him through rose colored glasses. Most of the game he brought the ball up and simply passed the ball to someone else who who ran the half court play. He may have some game at some point, but there is no way you can validate his game from this particular blow out.

If he can play "fairly pedestrian" for the rest of the season, he's a shoo-in to back up Parker. Pop has a few requirements for his backup point guard:

1. Don't turn the ball over
2. Don't stall the offense
3. Don't break down defensively
4. Don't let the defense cheat off you

If Joseph can continue to play good individual and team defense, he can impact the game without having to score, leaving him only to shoot or penetrate when open, which he's shown an ability to do. As you pointed out, the Spurs' offense will take care of itself so long as he brings the ball up and gets it to the right spots without turning it over. He seems to be pretty clear on that. Notice that "take over the game" is nowhere in Pop's list.

The pick and roll doesn't always go through Parker, so Joseph isn't going to need to run it 40 times a game. If he can hold the fort for 25 minutes while Parker's out, he's more than equipped to handle it for 12 when Parker comes back.

[tesseractive]

The pick and roll doesn't always go through Parker, so Joseph isn't going to need to run it 40 times a game. If he can hold the fort for 25 minutes while Parker's out, he's more than equipped to handle it for 12 when Parker comes back.
Except that the playoffs can be a different beast. CoJo will have only been with the varsity for a month and a half when the playoffs start, so we'll have to see how he looks, and also what Pop's comfort level is with giving him run.

[Obstructed_View]

Except that the playoffs can be a different beast. CoJo will have only been with the varsity for a month and a half when the playoffs start, so we'll have to see how he looks, and also what Pop's comfort level is with giving him run.

You got that right. He's only started one game, so we definitely have to see how he looks before we even think about the playoffs. I still maintain that playing no better or worse than he played last night going forward is enough to earn him the backup point job.

[Darkwaters]

Except that the playoffs can be a different beast. CoJo will have only been with the varsity for a month and a half when the playoffs start, so we'll have to see how he looks, and also what Pop's comfort level is with giving him run.

A fair concern. But to be totally honest, in the playoffs he would probably serve soley as Parker's backup. And I imagine in playoff games that Parker will be playing right around 40 minutes. So we're probably talking about fewer than 10 minutes a game. While it'll still be concerning, I think it's a survivable hurdle if hes surrounded with the right supporting cast when hes on the court.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Is there anywhere online where I can watch the full game from last night? Or are we not allowed to ask for video of it?

[Darkwaters]

Is there anywhere online where I can watch the full game from last night? Or are we not allowed to ask for video of it?

NBA League Pass. Although I know I had to drop like 200 euro on that shit last year.

Other than that, I don't know.

[TheGoldStandard]

Better to let Corey get as many games under his belt because we don't know for sure if Tony will be back April 1st, we don't need that scapegoat if we get run in the playoffs because of bad PG play.

[Chinook]

I want to see Joseph stay in the starting lineup rather than put De Colo there. Not having Parker is forcing the other players to step up. Green and especially Leonard are going to have to have the ball in their hands more now. We've seen Green have games recently that gave us hope he can be a plus facilitator, but Leonard hasn't gotten the chance since the summer league, really. I liked seeing him run the offense last night. If he can build on that, then he, Green and Joseph should be able to provide enough play-making from the perimeter.

De Colo playing with the bench is not ideal for his skill set, but if he has any hope of finding a long-term spot in the rotation, he has to be able to play with Ginobili. If Parker and T.J. Ford can find a way to play together, De Colo and Ginobili should be able to, as well.

Finally, I found the Ginobili/Green/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan lineup interesting defensively. Without the team's best point defender, there will be stretches where Green or Leonard will tasked with checking players like Irving and Westbrook. Them getting more experience defending ones could pay dividends come playoff time. Also, for teams like the Heat which often go for stretches without a traditional point-guard, the Spurs may find it easier to switch pick-and-rolls without having to worry about Parker being on put a big.

[DesignatedT]

I think Joseph fits better next to Manu and therefore wouldn't be too upset with De Colo getting the start. He does seem like he fits better with the starting unit. I mean asking Green to dribble the ball too much is just going to turn into a disaster and the last thing he needs is to start fuckin up and losing confidence. As long as Cojo is still the guard down the stretch and is still getting good minutes I would mind a flip there. The starting unit with CoJo makes for some great defense though.

[Darius McCrary]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Joseph is given the proper minutes and doesn't disappoint.

However, I'm still irked that it wasn't until March that Pop gave him his chance. Smh.

[DesignatedT]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Joseph is given the proper minutes and doesn't disappoint.

However, I'm still irked that it wasn't until March that Pop gave him his chance. Smh.

Pretty hard when you have so many options. Somebody had to get the boot. Patty looks like the odd man out here IMO.

[Grit and Grind]

AT least he is a real PG unlike Parker

[hater]

IMO patty + decolo gonna be fighting for the 3rd string by the end of the week. I think Decolo has great potential but is way way too green. Patty might be a better 3rd string as he brings sparks off the bench.

Still I think Decolo's potential might be bigger than Patty/Cojo in the end.

[Chinook]

I think Joseph fits better next to Manu and therefore wouldn't be too upset with De Colo getting the start. He does seem like he fits better with the starting unit. I mean asking Green to dribble the ball too much is just going to turn into a disaster and the last thing he needs is to start fuckin up and losing confidence. As long as Cojo is still the guard down the stretch and is still getting good minutes I would mind a flip there. The starting unit with CoJo makes for some great defense though.

I agree that Green is possibly the worst dribbler in the rotation (including the bigs), but it seems like he is facilitating more than he was earlier in the season. He is usually the one to gives Parker the entry pass off the around-the-world play the Spurs use so much. I think he facilitates much like a big man does: He doesn't (shouldn't) rely on driving to get assists as much as he relies on a knowledge of the offense and being able to hit cutters with an accurate pass as soon as the window opens up.

[DesignatedT]

I agree that Green is possibly the worst dribbler in the rotation (including the bigs), but it seems like he is facilitating more than he was earlier in the season. He is usually the one to gives Parker the entry pass off the around-the-world play the Spurs use so much. I think he facilitates much like a big man does: He doesn't (shouldn't) rely on driving to get assists as much as he relies on a knowledge of the offense and being able to hit cutters with an accurate pass as soon as the window opens up.

If Danny and Kawhi can pretty much switch roles offensively It wouldn't be as big of a deal. I mean the 2 and 3 are pretty interchangeable in the Spurs system already but letting Kawhi get more opportunities to put the ball on the ground and letting Danny stand in the corner more often makes more sense. It seems like Danny gets a lot more opportunities to "drive" the ball.

[Seventyniner]

Green has been awful at scoring at the rim until recently. He's doing better against bad teams (Kings, Pistons), but you have to start somewhere. Parker going down definitely takes the team out of its comfort zone, so it is up to Pop to pull something positive from it.

I still think a Green/De Colo backup backcourt is possible if Pop decides to start Manu again. I hope he doesn't, though; the starters (Parker, Green, Leonard, Splitter, Duncan) are an elite 5-man unit defensively and do a great job of setting the tone.

[Obstructed_View]

I agree that Green is possibly the worst dribbler in the rotation (including the bigs), but it seems like he is facilitating more than he was earlier in the season.

Danny has good court vision, and is a good passer. He's not even a terrible ball handler. There are just situations he shouldn't allow himself to get into. It's not really that hard to pull up on the break or give it up in most scenarios before he runs into trouble. He doesn't make those mistakes often enough to make him a bad player, but if he could eliminate them it would make him really reliable and would probably do some good for his confidence.

[moisaenz]

I think the tone in the playoffs if CoJo gets backup minutes will be , Cojo playing in the second unit or Ginobili/Mills in the backcourt.

[playblair]

cojo = avery bradley ........................


CoJo, Green, Kawhi, Splitter, Baynes... there is some hope after all

word............. add blair..........hanga.............richards........b ertans...........

[tesseractive]

A fair concern. But to be totally honest, in the playoffs he would probably serve soley as Parker's backup. And I imagine in playoff games that Parker will be playing right around 40 minutes. So we're probably talking about fewer than 10 minutes a game. While it'll still be concerning, I think it's a survivable hurdle if hes surrounded with the right supporting cast when hes on the court.

If a player can't handle the intensity of the playoffs, 10 minutes can be 10 minutes too long. It's excruciating watching someone who's flailing even if it's only for a possession or 2. Think about watching 10 minutes of Playoff Matt Bonner if you have any doubts.

Not that I'm saying that Cory will be one of those guys, it's just that you never know how a player will respond under playoff conditions until you see them play.

[TD 21]

Ginobili has been back for a while now and Neal hasn't gone back to backup PG yet. Not sure where you're steering that ship, tbh.

How many games between Ginobili's return and Neal's exit were there though? And even then, consider the stretch it came during. Ginobili wasn't playing much more than spot minutes and there was no semblance of a set rotation period.


In the playoffs last year, Neal got shredded by Eric Bledsoe and couldn't even hang with the corpse of Derek Fisher.

On a whole, the bench sucked last year in the playoffs ... and the backup point guard issues played a huge part in that, IMO.

Thank you for (unknowingly) proving my point. Bledsoe is a great example, because despite the amount of trouble he gave them, the end result was a sweep.

The bench sucked, but Ginobili, Splitter and Bonner, were bigger issues than Neal. If you take Neal for what he is, he had a heck of a playoffs. He shot the lights out (fg% - .476, 3p% - .444, ft .846), while posting a turnover rate only slightly above his regular season and career average, despite playing out of position.


Pop, in the grand scheme of things, what impact did Bledsoe have? The Spurs swept them with relative ease. Besides, Bledsoe can give a lot of PG's problems and it's not like Joseph has an A+ handle himself, so he'd probably have great difficulty with him too.

[spurraider21]

cojo = avery bradley ........................



word............. add blair..........hanga.............richards........b ertans...........

CoJo isn't quite there defensively. I mean he can be something great on that end, but Bradley is just monstrous against opposing point guards. CoJo does seem to have a better offensive game than Bradley though. At the very least he's a competent jump shooter which is more than Avery Bradley can say... he's literally the Tony Allen of point guards.

There is zero chance of Blair resigning with the Spurs. Probably less than zero. Whatever contract he signs next will be the biggest contract he'll ever get, even if its only for 2-3 million per. The Spurs aren't going to be that team, especially in a summer we're about to have. Blair is not in the long term plans of the team, and he clearly wants out, the Spurs want him out too. In the meantime he was worth hanging onto as a ridiculously cheap depth body. I still don't know about Hanga. He seems to have a pretty average all around skill set. Bertans looks like he could become a shooting specialist, and at his height, wouldn't be a bad idea. At best he could be a Keith Van Horn type or a poor man's Peja. Just doesn't seem to have a diverse skill set. Richards is intriguing but he is incredibly raw.

[ace3g]

I always compared CJ to George Hill. CJ has better handles, both can play some D (Hill has longer arms), and have similar shooting mechanics.

Funny how CJ goes from 6 fouls in 11 min to 0 fouls in 18 min the next game.

[keywester]

Wow!!!!!!! I finally get it, COJO is the "Second Coming." Forget TP or any want-to-be Spurs PG. How foolish we were to think DeColo could be the one. Forget Mills...just a bug...step on him. Neal? Send him to North Korea with Rodman. Thank G_d, we have COJO!!!!

Ps. Just kidding. I only hope that we will love COJO as much if he doesn't live up to our collective expectations.

[benefactor]

Parker about the backup PG slot on his radio show:
Pop was a little disappointed about what Mills and De Colo have done lately and that's why he called up Joseph. The competition is open between all three for the spot and, without me, they will have 3 weeks to show what they can do.
:tu

[Obstructed_View]

I always compared CJ to George Hill. CJ has better handles, both can play some D (Hill has longer arms), and have similar shooting mechanics.

Funny how CJ goes from 6 fouls in 11 min to 0 fouls in 18 min the next game.

He's probably closer to a bigger version of Curtis Jerrells without the chucker reputation.

[Obstructed_View]

Wow!!!!!!! I finally get it, COJO is the "Second Coming." Forget TP or any want-to-be Spurs PG. How foolish we were to thing DeColo could be the one. Forget Mills...just a bug...step on him. Neal? Send him to North Korea with Rodman. Thank G_d, we have COJO!!!!

And strawman award of the day goes to...

[keywester]

And strawman award of the day goes to...

Thank you, I love awards!

[racm]

I always compared CJ to George Hill. CJ has better handles, both can play some D (Hill has longer arms), and have similar shooting mechanics.

Funny how CJ goes from 6 fouls in 11 min to 0 fouls in 18 min the next game.

I think the same way too. Joseph just spent time in the D-League since he was a raw one-and-done prospect when he was drafted whilst Hill spent 3 years at IUPUI.

So in terms of age and experience, Joseph is roughly where Hill was in his rookie season.

Also, he's a good fit in the starting lineup because:

1. The starting 5 is composed of above average defenders. Leonard is the designated perimeter stopper, Duncan is the rim protector, Splitter's pick and roll defense is good enough to get the Spurs to average as a team, and Green usually closes out on shooters well.
2. He can run plays without needing to freelance. Leave the improvised plays to guys like Manu.
3. He's a good enough shooter to play off the ball. Again, Manu and Tim get the ball the most while Tony's out.

[timvp]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Joseph is given the proper minutes and doesn't disappoint.

However, I'm still irked that it wasn't until March that Pop gave him his chance. Smh.
That was my first reaction last night after seeing CJ play so well. But, honestly, CJ needed minutes. He bounced around in different systems in high school. In college he played in probably the worst developmental situation in the country. Last season, he didn't get summer league or even that abbreviated training camp (visa issues).

CJ needed minutes and got 1,000+ minutes in the D-League. Mills, to compare, has played only about half that many minutes with the Spurs. Even if the competition was lower, CJ was in major need of repetitions. He's probably better off now than if he was used in that Patty/Nando/Gary timeshare.

Besides, it's really not that late in the season. Seven weeks is PLENTY of time to work in a new player. Especially one who knows the plays and is familiar with his teammates/surroundings.

Looking back, Jacque Vaughn didn't win the job in 2007 until around the All-Star break. This would be a similar move in which Pop forfeits some offensive explosiveness for better defense and a steadier hand.

[pgardn]

Manu is our second best PG.

Nando definitely gets us into our sets more efficiently at the moment but personally I gotta see more Joseph. Joseph's shot looked so much better, this is what I was most pleased with. Joseph completely left his man helping in the wrong spots in the 1st quarter, But his physical ability on D is obvious. Strength with speed.

Need more views.
I trust Nando with the ball at the moment. Best handles and best vision among our backups but also a more likely TO man.

[DesignatedT]

Manu will do most of the ball handling with the 2nd unit in the playoffs. Not much is needed from the other guard in that respect come post-season. Being able to put a very capable defender and good shooter next to Manu at the other guard position is ideal. Nando isn't really either of those. Neal is obviously a great shooter but really struggles defensively. Hopefully Joseph can be the one who provides both. Ultimately, for Pop to choose him though he is going to have to be able to consistently shoot the ball well.

[pgardn]

In college he played in probably the worst developmental situation in the country.

.
Absolutely.

Coming from an embarrassed longhorn fan.

[racm]

Manu will do most of the ball handling with the 2nd unit in the playoffs. Not much is needed from the other guard in that respect come post-season. Being able to put a very capable defender and good shooter next to Manu at the other guard position is ideal. Nando isn't really either of those. Neal is obviously a great shooter but really struggles defensively. Hopefully Joseph can be the one who provides both. Ultimately, for Pop to choose him though he is going to have to be able to consistently shoot the ball well.

What were his shooting splits in the D-League this season?

[EricB]

Wait, this is the same player everyone here ripped the spurs for drafting and said he wasn't NBA material?

[pgardn]

Wait, this is the same player everyone here ripped the spurs for drafting and said he wasn't NBA material?
Weak draft. We took a shot at a good kid in a bad learning situation. The mad came from expectations he was drafted as a NOW backup. And we still don't know if he is.

[EricB]

Weak draft. We took a shot at a good kid in a bad learning situation. The mad came from expectations he was drafted as a NOW backup. And we still don't know if he is.

Yeah he's 20, clearly too late to do anything with him.

[racm]

Weak draft. We took a shot at a good kid in a bad learning situation. The mad came from expectations he was drafted as a NOW backup. And we still don't know if he is.

In hindsight people underrated the 2011 draft. Then again no draft will be as weak as 2000, even the 2006 draft where the Raps drafted Bustnani instead of Aldridge or Roy.

[therealtruth]

It would be cool if Cojo could do a George Hill in 2010 and make Parker seem expendable.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Have you considered that Pop might also just be trying to motivate the other "point guards" by starting a D league player? Not that the Spurs don't have long term hopes for Cojo, clearly they do, but in my heart I still have difficulty seeing Pop rolling the dice with an unknown player this late in the season, especially considering the playoffs.

Tbh, I see this as a classic "Poptease". Spurstalk gets worked up with a new prospect...only to see Cojo sent back to the Toros next week.

I'm not saying Cojo doesn't have a chance to make it stick this year, but history seems to be against him.

[racm]

It would be cool if Cojo could do a George Hill in 2010 and make Parker seem expendable.

:lmao at making an MVP candidate expendable

[racm]

Have you considered that Pop might also just be trying to motivate the other "point guards" by starting a D league player? Not that the Spurs don't have long term hopes for Cojo, clearly they do, but in my heart I still have difficulty seeing Pop rolling the dice with an unknown player this late in the season, especially considering the playoffs.

Tbh, I see this as a classic "Poptease". Spurstalk gets worked up with a new prospect...only to see Cojo sent back to the Toros next week.

I'm not saying Cojo doesn't have a chance to make it stick this year, but history seems to be against him.

I dunno, Vaughn moved past Beno for the backup PG spot by the All-Star break in 2007. Nazr didn't secure the starting spot until the playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

Nazr got the starting job because Rasho sprained his ankle.

[jestersmash]

Parker about the backup PG slot on his radio show:
Pop was a little disappointed about what Mills and De Colo have done lately and that's why he called up Joseph. The competition is open between all three for the spot and, without me, they will have 3 weeks to show what they can do.

Interesting. According to Parker, did Pop really use the word "disappointed" or is that Parker's interpretation?

[jestersmash]

Manu is our second best PG.

Nando definitely gets us into our sets more efficiently at the moment but personally I gotta see more Joseph. Joseph's shot looked so much better, this is what I was most pleased with. Joseph completely left his man helping in the wrong spots in the 1st quarter, But his physical ability on D is obvious. Strength with speed.

Need more views.
I trust Nando with the ball at the moment. Best handles and best vision among our backups but also a more likely TO man.

I'd like to trust Nando, but it's hard to trust a guy with virtually 0 offensive game. His spot up jump shot off the pick and roll is mediocre/borderline unacceptable. His spot up 3 point shooting is pretty mediocre. His shots just look really inconsistent (they're left/right of target often). His ability to finish around the rim is borderline unacceptable. I just can't come to trust such an offensive non-threat with backup PG duties in the playoffs.

Gary Neal is on the other end of the spectrum. His individual spot up shooting off pick and rolls is acceptable, but his court vision, passing, and handling in general are atrocious.

If I had to choose between Neal and de Colo right now, I'd honestly probably go with Neal (by a hair). At least he can go on a hot streak and drop three 3s in 7 minutes or something.

[BackHome]

I was the biggest hater on CoJo last year come on the dude could dribble without looking like a Hunchback troll. But gotta say the dude took my advice and worked very hard this off season an to his credit does not look like a Hunchback Troll when he dribbles. We will see how he performs against good teams but as much as I was hating on him I would love for him to prove me wrong. I will happily eat all the crow possible...:)...Yummmy...

[Bruno]

Interesting. According to Parker, did Pop really use the word "disappointed" or is that Parker's interpretation?

Parker exact words answering at a question on whether or not De Colo would get more playing time with his injury:
"I don't know what is inside Pop's head. I know that he was little disappointed by the outings of the 2 backup PG, Patty and Nando, so he called up Cory Joseph. There are about 20 games remaining and I think the backup PG slot is open to the three players. The three have a true opportunity even more that I wont play for three weeks. So the three will have a true opportunity to show Pop that they deserves to be in our rotation and earn playing for the playoffs because in the playoffs, rotation will tighten and only 8/9 players will play. According to me, Pop hasn't made his choice and they have three weeks to convince."

[Boomersgold]

Parker exact words answering at a question on whether or not De Colo would get more playing time with his injury:
"I don't know what is inside Pop's head. I know that he was little disappointed by the outings of the 2 backup PG, Patty and Nando, so he called up Cory Joseph. There are about 20 games remaining and I think the backup PG slot is opento the three players. The three have a true opportunity even more that I' wont play for three weeks. So the three will have a true opportunity to show Pop that they deserves to be in our rotation and earn playing for the playoffs because in the playoffs, rotation will tighten and only 8/9 players will play. According to me, Pop hasn't made his choice and they have three weeks to convince."

Thanks for the translation. Still don't know how pop was disappointed with Patty's performance considering that he's had very little time as the backup guard these past few weeks.

[AFBlue]

I was the biggest hater on CoJo last year come on the dude could dribble without looking like a Hunchback troll. But gotta say the dude took my advice and worked very hard this off season an to his credit does not look like a Hunchback Troll when he dribbles. We will see how he performs against good teams but as much as I was hating on him I would love for him to prove me wrong. I will happily eat all the crow possible...:)...Yummmy...

I don't know what smoothed out more, the jumpshot or the arch in his back? The crazy thing is that he became a completely different person athletically when he fixed his posture. The big knock on his upside was his so-so athleticism, but he seems pretty solid in that aspect since he learned to stand up straight.

[Darius McCrary]

That was my first reaction last night after seeing CJ play so well. But, honestly, CJ needed minutes. He bounced around in different systems in high school. In college he played in probably the worst developmental situation in the country. Last season, he didn't get summer league or even that abbreviated training camp (visa issues).

CJ needed minutes and got 1,000+ minutes in the D-League. Mills, to compare, has played only about half that many minutes with the Spurs. Even if the competition was lower, CJ was in major need of repetitions. He's probably better off now than if he was used in that Patty/Nando/Gary timeshare.

Besides, it's really not that late in the season. Seven weeks is PLENTY of time to work in a new player. Especially one who knows the plays and is familiar with his teammates/surroundings.

Looking back, Jacque Vaughn didn't win the job in 2007 until around the All-Star break. This would be a similar move in which Pop forfeits some offensive explosiveness for better defense and a steadier hand.

on the surface i don't agree with you that it's not too late, but I'd appreciate if you save us mobile St Surfers the trouble and hook us up with a link supporting the Vaughn statement. And not to take anything away from him, IMO he was the best backup PG of the Tony Parker era, i just don't remember him not winning the job until when you say.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I dunno, Vaughn moved past Beno for the backup PG spot by the All-Star break in 2007. Nazr didn't secure the starting spot until the playoffs.

Regarding Vaughn, he was an old-as-dirt veteran, and so I'm assuming that in the eyes of Pop he could be trusted. Cojo still has very little experience, though the potential is clearly there.

[DJR210]

word cojo haters its ok to come out now ................... same posters who hated on cojo hated on blair ...........................

Wow get off Blair's piece already.

[therealtruth]

:lmao at making an MVP candidate expendable

I've always felt the Spurs could be successful without the PG being a ball dominant scorer and I think 2010 proved that when George Hill manned the point.

[spurraider21]

I've always felt the Spurs could be successful without the PG being a ball dominant scorer and I think 2010 proved that when George Hill manned the point.

We got swept that year. Didn't prove too much

[pgardn]

Yeah he's 20, clearly too late to do anything with him.

Again, this board took him to be an immediate backup. Pop... I dunno.

He might have been 2 years old, the above was the perceived expectation for a first rounder IMO.

[pgardn]

In hindsight people underrated the 2011 draft. Then again no draft will be as weak as 2000, even the 2006 draft where the Raps drafted Bustnani instead of Aldridge or Roy.

Would any team picking in the late first round give up a hypothetical pick for him right now?

Guess this is the best way to assess value. Do they see all the upside this board does?

(personally I find it fun to see what becomes of all this by getting to watch him more often)

[jjktkk]

Have you considered that Pop might also just be trying to motivate the other "point guards" by starting a D league player? Not that the Spurs don't have long term hopes for Cojo, clearly they do, but in my heart I still have difficulty seeing Pop rolling the dice with an unknown player this late in the season, especially considering the playoffs.

Tbh, I see this as a classic "Poptease". Spurstalk gets worked up with a new prospect...only to see Cojo sent back to the Toros next week.

I'm not saying Cojo doesn't have a chance to make it stick this year, but history seems to be against him.

Cojo is not an "unknown player". The only thing holding Cojo back, is his lack of expierence.

[Seventyniner]

Parker exact words answering at a question on whether or not De Colo would get more playing time with his injury:
"I don't know what is inside Pop's head. I know that he was little disappointed by the outings of the 2 backup PG, Patty and Nando, so he called up Cory Joseph. There are about 20 games remaining and I think the backup PG slot is open to the three players. The three have a true opportunity even more that I wont play for three weeks. So the three will have a true opportunity to show Pop that they deserves to be in our rotation and earn playing for the playoffs because in the playoffs, rotation will tighten and only 8/9 players will play. According to me, Pop hasn't made his choice and they have three weeks to convince."

Some things stand out here:
1) Neal isn't listed as a backup PG. Is that experiment finally over? Also interesting that Mills is listed and Neal isn't; their roles seem to be nearly identical.
2) Pop seems to want to shorten the rotation before the WCF this year. It's hard to cut the rotation to 8; of the 8 best players on the team, only one is a PG (Parker). It will be necessary to either give a player outside the top 9 minutes at backup PG (Joseph, De Colo, Mills, Neal), or have one of Manu and Tony on the court at all times. If Manu can handle the minutes, I'd be all for that.

[Pop]

Some things stand out here:
1) Neal isn't listed as a backup PG. Is that experiment finally over? Also interesting that Mills is listed and Neal isn't; their roles seem to be nearly identical.
2) Pop seems to want to shorten the rotation before the WCF this year. It's hard to cut the rotation to 8; of the 8 best players on the team, only one is a PG (Parker). It will be necessary to either give a player outside the top 9 minutes at backup PG (Joseph, De Colo, Mills, Neal), or have one of Manu and Tony on the court at all times. If Manu can handle the minutes, I'd be all for that.


You think Manu can bring up the ball vs a Bledsoe? You're all for that??

Yeah ok...

[jhfenton]

What were his shooting splits in the D-League this season?

45.8% shooting overall, but 47.9% (35-73) on 3's.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/cory_joseph/

YR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
12-13 AUS 26 26 38.5 0.458 0.479 0.804 1.2 3.7 4.8 5.5 1.9 0.4 2.58 2.46 19.4

[Pasta Batman]

Some things stand out here:
1) Neal isn't listed as a backup PG. Is that experiment finally over? Also interesting that Mills is listed and Neal isn't; their roles seem to be nearly identical.
2) Pop seems to want to shorten the rotation before the WCF this year. It's hard to cut the rotation to 8; of the 8 best players on the team, only one is a PG (Parker). It will be necessary to either give a player outside the top 9 minutes at backup PG (Joseph, De Colo, Mills, Neal), or have one of Manu and Tony on the court at all times. If Manu can handle the minutes, I'd be all for that.

The last thing you want is Manu exerting all his energy on both ends of the floor to make up for a lousy ball handler (when defenses actually play D) and defender like Neal, for example. He's not young enough to do big minutes and give that same Manu-like energy he used to for 35+ minutes.

[Pasta Batman]

Except that the playoffs can be a different beast. CoJo will have only been with the varsity for a month and a half when the playoffs start, so we'll have to see how he looks, and also what Pop's comfort level is with giving him run.

We've all see what Neal has done against The Grizz, OKC and Clippers in the past few post seasons. All other guys are unknowns, so CJ's not at that much of a disadvantage compared to Mills/Nando. He probably knows the PG plays the best out of all the guards.

[therealtruth]

We got swept that year. Didn't prove too much

That had more to do with our lack of defense. But we were pretty good after Parker went down with the injury.

[FireMicoHalili]

Sample size too small. Is he this forum's shiny new toy? *scoffs*

[tesseractive]

We've all see what Neal has done against The Grizz, OKC and Clippers in the past few post seasons. All other guys are unknowns, so CJ's not at that much of a disadvantage compared to Mills/Nando. He probably knows the PG plays the best out of all the guards.

True. But while CoJo isn't considered a rookie in the NBA sense, he's one by the MLB definition, and basically 2 1/2 seasons removed from high school. All I'm saying -- and this applies to NDC as well -- is that you never know what will happen with rookies in the playoffs. We've had some guys that were great in their first playoffs, but not every good player is.

[racm]

True. But while CoJo isn't considered a rookie in the NBA sense, he's one by the MLB definition, and basically 2 1/2 seasons removed from high school. All I'm saying -- and this applies to NDC as well -- is that you never know what will happen with rookies in the playoffs. We've had some guys that were great in their first playoffs, but not every good player is.

Tony blew in his first four playoff runs. Good thing prime Timmy covered for him.

[Ice009]

Tony blew in his first four playoff runs. Good thing prime Timmy covered for him.

TP shredded Gary Payton, a legend, in his first playoff series. Then he played very well against LA in the second round. I disagree with you completely. He might have been the Spurs second best player in his first ever playoffs.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Cojo is not an "unknown player". The only thing holding Cojo back, is his lack of expierence.


His lack of experience in the playoffs makes him "unknown".

[Whisky Dog]

That was my first reaction last night after seeing CJ play so well. But, honestly, CJ needed minutes. He bounced around in different systems in high school. In college he played in probably the worst developmental situation in the country.

Just curious timvp, but why do you feel Rick Barnes coaches the worst developmental situation in the country? What makes you believe that?

Curious to see the evidence that gives you that opinion

[thOOdee]

cory so far looking really good........

[thOOdee]

damn this kid is pesty

[SequSpur]

I have a question..did timvp say kawhi was going to be an all-star?

[ace3g]

CJ with only 1 TO in the last 3 games.

[SpursRock20]

Mills says hi

[spurraider21]

Mills says hi
Mills is like Gary Neal. scores in bunches, can hit shots, but doesn't run an offense. Isn't really a good defender, either. Heck, for all the shots he made the Spurs were just +2 with him on the floor
CoJo didn't really put up numbers, but he played really well, especially on defense.

[Darkwaters]

Mills says hi

Yea, Mills was really good tonight. But he played SG basically his whole time on the court. Manu Ginobili was the star PG today. Thats not exactly an overwhelming win for the "Mills for Backup PG" bandwagon. What if Ginobili goes down?

[SpursRock20]

Yea, Mills was really good tonight. But he played SG basically his whole time on the court. Manu Ginobili was the star PG today. Thats not exactly an overwhelming win for the "Mills for Backup PG" bandwagon. What if Ginobili goes down?

True, true. But do you at least believe that he earned a few more minutes tonight? I felt he played very hard on both ends and deserves some more burn.

[apalisoc_9]

I have a question..did timvp say kawhi was going to be an all-star?

TIMVP said he's got Superstar potential. You mad?

[dbestpro]

Makes sense to say Manu has the backup PG job locked up and Mills / Neal have the backup SG spot locked up for the playoffs. I do think Mills played decent when he ran the point. CoJo had decent defense but really seemed lost at times on what to do on offense.

[SequSpur]

Patty mills. C Joseph is a child....

[J_Paco]

TP shredded Gary Payton, a legend, in his first playoff series. Then he played very well against LA in the second round. I disagree with you completely. He might have been the Spurs second best player in his first ever playoffs.


Let the hating as people on these boards (you know who you are) tell it and Parker has never had a great series except for '07 against Boobie Gibson.


Mills was really good tonight. But he played SG basically his whole time on the court. Manu Ginobili was the star PG today. Thats not exactly an overwhelming win for the "Mills for Backup PG" bandwagon. What if Ginobili goes down?

People also have to take into account the toll that Manu will taking being the primary (or only) ball-handler off the bench. Shit, he got gassed tonight and needed a blow to recover. Pop really needs to play whomever can assist Manu, knock down open shots and play solid perimeter defense.

[Spursfan092120]

lol ESPN calling him Curtis Joseph...Really?? Professional National Commentators?

[Boomersgold]

Mills is like Gary Neal. scores in bunches, can hit shots, but doesn't run an offense. Isn't really a good defender, either. Heck, for all the shots he made the Spurs were just +2 with him on the floor
CoJo didn't really put up numbers, but he played really well, especially on defense.

Stats only tell part of the story. In the first half, Patty played with the turd towers and the team did poorly with that lineup, hence his negative +/- at that point (He was below -10). In the second half, Patty played with the backup regulars in Diaw, Manu and Jackson, and the team played extremely well, therefore allowing Patty to bring the +/- stat back up to a positive number.

[letmk]

Stats only tell part of the story. In the first half, Patty played with the turd towers and the team did poorly with that lineup, hence his negative +/- at that point (He was below -10). In the second half, Patty played with the backup regulars in Diaw, Manu and Jackson, and the team played extremely well, therefore allowing Patty to bring the +/- stat back up to a positive number.

This. I guess Pop was not planning to use Diaw much in the first half. After the poor job by turd towers, he went with Diaw and the regular rotation, then things gradually became under control.

[Pasta Batman]

Stats only tell part of the story. In the first half, Patty played with the turd towers and the team did poorly with that lineup, hence his negative +/- at that point (He was below -10). In the second half, Patty played with the backup regulars in Diaw, Manu and Jackson, and the team played extremely well, therefore allowing Patty to bring the +/- stat back up to a positive number.

Either way, Mills is best in the Neal SG (score quickly) role, which he'll get as long as Neal struggles to get healthy/struggles to get back in shape.

[spurraider21]

Stats only tell part of the story. In the first half, Patty played with the turd towers and the team did poorly with that lineup, hence his negative +/- at that point (He was below -10). In the second half, Patty played with the backup regulars in Diaw, Manu and Jackson, and the team played extremely well, therefore allowing Patty to bring the +/- stat back up to a positive number.

Yeah I did notice he was playing alongside Bon Bon, but I pointed out at one point during the first half that he had played 9 consecutive minutes and did nothing except hit 1 three. Wasn't active an defense and was sort of just standing around on offense.

[playblair]

cojos performance defending robinson >>>>>>>>>> mills de colos performance defending robinson ......................

[superjames1992]

cojos performance defending robinson >>>>>>>>>> mills de colos performance defending robinson ......................
Nando only played in garbage time. Huh?

[Boomersgold]

cojos performance defending robinson >>>>>>>>>> mills de colos performance defending robinson ......................


Definitely. But Mills' offense > Cojo's offense.

[Pasta Batman]

Paul Garcia PS (@24writer)
Pop on Patty Mills & Cory Joseph: "Patty's more of a scorer. Cory's more a defender." #Spurs #Bulls

[playblair]

props on the inbound steal cojo ..................................

[Ice009]

I LOVE the defensive tone and intensity to start. I will take defense all day, every day.

[DanAu]

Looks like they have:
De Colo solely to back up Manu, for his playmaking
Cory to back up Tony when the team offence is working and scoring is not an issue, perhaps also to guard play-off calibre PG's
Neal to back up Tony when scoring is needed.
Patty to back up Neal if he's injurer or not shooting or if the game needs that Mills spark.

Good depth.

[Obstructed_View]

Stats only tell part of the story. In the first half, Patty played with the turd towers and the team did poorly with that lineup, hence his negative +/- at that point (He was below -10). In the second half, Patty played with the backup regulars in Diaw, Manu and Jackson, and the team played extremely well, therefore allowing Patty to bring the +/- stat back up to a positive number.

In the first half, Patty played point guard and it was a disaster. In the fourth, he was a shooting guard and made baskets. He's not useful if he's not making shots. That's not what you want from a backup point guard.

[Obstructed_View]

Definitely. But Mills' scoring > Cojo's scoring.

There's more to offense than scoring. And when Mills brings the ball up the floor fewer times than Kawhi Leonard, he's not really a great candidate to be running your offense.

[Pasta Batman]

There's more to offense than scoring. And when Mills brings the ball up the floor fewer times than Kawhi Leonard, he's not really a great candidate to be running your offense.

Indeed. Some good stuff from Jesse at 48minutesofhell (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/chicago-bulls-san-antonio-spurs-duncan-noah-leonard-ginobili)also,


Cory Joseph is getting more than a token nod and minutes as the Spurs starting point guard in Tony Parker’s absence. In a small sample size Joseph has showed he has a legitimate NBA role as a defensive point guard that can function as a caretaker for the offense. That is, not necessarily making plays, but not turning the ball over. Joseph was able to pressure full court, delaying the Bulls ability to get into their sets. An underrated factor against a team that lacks quality shot creators. He also fights through screens, locking and trailing, well for a player of his stature and inexperience. He’s shown an improved shot, though it remains to be seen if it holds up at the NBA level.


Patty Mills has a specific role on this team, and it’s one that Spurs coach Gregg Popovich says won’t really change much due to Parker’s absence. Mills is an energetic, skilled shooter who thrives of spot-up opportunities and coming off curls while lacking creativity off the bounce. Defensively he’s perhaps the most active looking player in NBA history, and manages to apply pressure at the point of attack, but is easily taken out of plays by a simple screen.

[Boomersgold]

In the first half, Patty played point guard and it was a disaster. In the fourth, he was a shooting guard and made baskets. He's not useful if he's not making shots. That's not what you want from a backup point guard.

The Spurs' dreadful first half had more to do with the turd towers than Patty's point guard skills, though he definitely was part of the reason for it. Don't forget that Manu still handled the ball for the majority of Patty's minutes in the first half. The only difference between the first half backup lineup and that of the second half was that instead of Bonner and Blair, Pop went with Splitter and Diaw.

[jesterbobman]

Cory Joseph is a much more stable option than Mills, as a Young Jacque Vaughn with a shot(To force in a comparison to a past Spurs player) That's really valuable. Patty Mills is a more high risk option, because he plays in a more frenetic manner. He's always on, and if you're playing badly that spark of energy is helpful. I think the two of them are separating out as backup PG's, as they're both capable of dribbling up court and have enough shooting ability that teams have to respect them(Considering time alongside Manu, that's a requirement).

[spurraider21]

If the Spurs want their defense-first mentality to hold, CoJo needs to be ahead of Mills on the depth chart

[benfti]

I really wish Boomersgold would not post anymore regarding Patty, its horribly unbalanced.

Cory Joseph is the second point guard on the Spurs.

Should he be the back up is the real question... and that is entirely situational.

Great to have filling in for TP when he is out.

But I think Mills and Neal wil work better with the second unit. Patty offers more the Manu than Corey offers to Manu, does that make sense???

[Boomersgold]

I really wish Boomersgold would not post anymore regarding Patty, its horribly unbalanced.

Cory Joseph is the second point guard on the Spurs.

Should he be the back up is the real question... and that is entirely situational.

Great to have filling in for TP when he is out.

But I think Mills and Neal wil work better with the second unit. Patty offers more the Manu than Corey offers to Manu, does that make sense???

No offense, benfti, even though I find your posts somewhat informative, but I contribute to this forum much more than you do. I don't just pop up every now and then to talk about Patty and Baynes (so I'm a more "rounded' member, if you will).

I've never said that Cory Joseph shouldn't be the second point guard or that Patty deserves it. That's something that you made up, and you won't be able to find quote of me saying that. In fact, when the question of "who would back up Tony" was first asked, I said De Colo because of his consistency. I just try to comment on what Patty does well, and let the spurstalk folk come up with arguments that disagree with me. That's what this forum's for.

[Hoops Czar]

I really wish Boomersgold would not post anymore regarding Patty, its horribly unbalanced.

Cory Joseph is the second point guard on the Spurs.

Should he be the back up is the real question... and that is entirely situational.

Great to have filling in for TP when he is out.

But I think Mills and Neal wil work better with the second unit. Patty offers more the Manu than Corey offers to Manu, does that make sense???

You wanna talk about extremely small sample size. CoJo is the second best point guard after two games against pretty mediocre offenses. And I wouldn't say Joseph was all that great on the offense side of the ball and I'm not just talking about scoring ( 2 assists in 24 minutes). Manu is the second best point guard on the team and it isn't even close.

[therealtruth]

If the Spurs want their defense-first mentality to hold, CoJo needs to be ahead of Mills on the depth chart

I believe it's that simple. If Pop really believe in defense again CJ has to play. We've got more than enough offense if we move the ball.

[chapnis]

I like the Patty/Manu combo. At this stage I don't think Patty should be on the court without Manu in meaningful minutes

[ace3g]

http://binaryapi.ap.org/cc09ee683dd0434880910bbe856ea0cd/940x.jpg

[benfti]

No offense, benfti, even though I find your posts somewhat informative, but I contribute to this forum much more than you do. I don't just pop up every now and then to talk about Patty and Baynes (so I'm a more "rounded' member, if you will).

I've never said that Cory Joseph shouldn't be the second point guard or that Patty deserves it. That's something that you made up, and you won't be able to find quote of me saying that. In fact, when the question of "who would back up Tony" was first asked, I said De Colo because of his consistency. I just try to comment on what Patty does well, and let the spurstalk folk come up with arguments that disagree with me. That's what this forum's for.

that is a subjective way to look at it.

[Boomersgold]

that is a subjective way to look at it.

:bang

[Obstructed_View]

No offense, benfti, even though I find your posts somewhat informative, but I contribute to this forum much more than you do. I don't just pop up every now and then to talk about Patty and Baynes (so I'm a more "rounded' member, if you will).

People accused you of being KBP. Not sure how that works in your favor.

[turkish spurs fan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cepR1BOBeNk

we should sign this boy

[Boomersgold]

People accused you of being KBP. Not sure how that works in your favor.

I'm not sure what KBP is, but people accused me of being biased for Patty. I completely agreed since he's my favorite player on the team, as Manu, Parker and Duncan are for some other people..

Unlike benfti though, I'm on here most days contributing to and starting other Spurs-related threads as well.

EDIT: (I actually enjoy reading benfti's posts a lot. Don't get me wrong. )

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I'm not sure what KBP is, but people accused me of being biased for Patty. I completely agreed since he's my favorite player on the team, as Manu, Parker and Duncan are for some other people..

Unlike benfti though, I'm on here most days contributing to and starting other Spurs-related threads as well.
If you ever go on InsideHoops, KBP is Euroleague.

[Boomersgold]

If you ever go on InsideHoops, KBP is Euroleague.

Why was he hated by the ST community? lol

[look_at_g_shred]

Did anyone see Joseph take that rebound away from Boozer? Or it might have been Noah. I love his determination on the boards as a PG. Also, I never really knew how good good of a defender Cojo was until these past two games. Sure it was against the Pistons and the Bulls, but it was very noticeable. He was giving Knight and Robinson fits. :toast

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Why was he hated by the ST community? lol
He hypes up average Euro/Greek players as being better than NBA players and lies a lot.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs' dreadful first half had more to do with the turd towers than Patty's point guard skills, though he definitely was part of the reason for it. Don't forget that Manu still handled the ball for the majority of Patty's minutes in the first half. The only difference between the first half backup lineup and that of the second half was that instead of Bonner and Blair, Pop went with Splitter and Diaw.

Just watched the first half again. While you're right that Manu handled the ball when he was in the game with Mills, there was a stretch where Mills was there without Manu. His first decision was to shoot a 22 foot jumper off the dribble with 12 seconds on the shot clock, which is the polar opposite of when he's playing shooting guard, as he's brilliant on offense from that spot.

When the Spurs went down double-digits, Bonner and Blair were on the bench. He was playing with Duncan and Leonard. Patty's defense was as bad as anyone on the team's in the first half. He gave up at least six or seven wide-open three pointers due to his Finley-esque ability to lose track of where his man was and/or misjudge his ability to get back. That only three of them went in is why the Spurs weren't in a bigger hole. To his credit, he did manage to run one of them down. Joseph replaced Mills and the Spurs cut the lead back down to three.

I absolutely am in favor of Patty getting minutes at shooting guard if he's hitting shots, especially if Neal's banged up. The Spurs need a guy who can step in and hit a shot, particularly if the Spurs go cold. He's still not a point guard.

[Chinook]

Yeah, I don't understand how anyone can think Mills' offense is significantly better than Joseph's. Mill's is faster, while Joseph's taller and longer, but they both show a good ability it finish at the rim. (I'd actually take Joseph over Patty there.) Mills can shoot very well, but Joseph is not bad in that area, either. He shot 49 percent from three in the d-league. Even if that drops a little, he's still shown he had the range. I also like Joseph's ability to get his own shot. Joseph is also better at getting the offense into its sets. Even though he didn't get a ton of assists last night, I think he passed the ball well. The fact that he had to play with the starters most of the time explains his lack of numbers.

I like Mills, and I have seen a couple of games this season where he seemed to put together some nice possessions running the offense. I'd like him to stay on the team next season. But Joseph's defense and upside make him the better solution as the back-up point. He should be able to score as well as Mills can, and he can run the offense by himself if Ginobili misses time or just needs a break for a few possessions. I think he's more completely fits the role the Spurs need than Mills does.

[pgardn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cepR1BOBeNk

we should sign this boy


Jesus...

Those are varsity basketball teams?

About 100 kids in those HSchools. That is really awful stuff. And those were highlights for the kid who can easily play at that inept level. The coaches let 2 players stand behind a teammate dribbling on the perimeter? That was seriously awful.

[Pop]

I know the idea will sound outrageous to most people including Chinook lol, but anyways, the big question at this point isn't if Corey if the best backup PG since he's the only real one. The question to me is should he get minutes at the 2 when Tp comes back at the expense of a shacky defender with no off the dribble game (exactly Corey's strength) called Danny Green? The sample size is too small to be sure about his D tbh but I think I'd go with a TP Manu Corey 3 guards rotation in the POs. Of course it won't happen, this year at least unless Green gets injured and even then it's a long shot, but just saying.

[TheGoldStandard]

Jesus...

Those are varsity basketball teams?

About 100 kids in those HSchools. That is really awful stuff. And those were highlights for the kid who can easily play at that inept level. The coaches let 2 players stand behind a teammate dribbling on the perimeter? That was seriously awful.

Kid just needs a really hard foul to make him think twice about driving the lane and settle for the easily blockable jump shots.

[Boomersgold]

Now Boarding: The Patty Mills Bandwagon

http://airalamo.com/2013/03/07/now-boarding-the-patty-mills-bandwagon/?utm_source=FanSided&utm_medium=Network&utm_campaign=Hot%2BTopics

[racm]

Damian Lillard will be a big test of Joseph's defensive chops before Westbrook comes to town.

As it is the Spurs starting 5 of Joseph/Green/Leonard/Duncan/Splitter has a 72.4 Defensive Rating in only 23 minutes. :wow

[silverblackfan]

Damian Lillard will be a big test of Joseph's defensive chops before Westbrook comes to town.

As it is the Spurs starting 5 of Joseph/Green/Leonard/Duncan/Splitter has a 72.4 Defensive Rating in only 23 minutes. :wow

Holy Crap! Have Tony come off the bench when he comes back! :lol

Seriously, I do think Pop should give CJ a few more games and if he continues to apply the good defense, run the offense well, and not turn it over. If he can do this for a week, I think the job is his.