Spurs Nation: Ginobili would like to play two more years

[Dex]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/03/03/ginobili-heads-to-next-stage-and-next-contract/


Ginobili will be back next season, though he says there are no guarantees. At his age, he says, it’s year to year.

“But ask me right now,” he said Sunday, “and I’d like to play two more years for sure.”

Nothing incredibly new, I believe Ginobili has said this before. But good to see his head and heart are still in the game.

[Russ]

Don't rush any of these guys. There'll be plenty of time to miss them.

[playblair]

word.............. it wold be ill if manu was around long enough to mentor hanga .....................

[Seventyniner]

This might give some insight into his next (and final) contract. I could see a 3-year, $24M deal with the last year fully unguaranteed (for use in a trade), or maybe partially guaranteed as a golden parachute like McDyess got.

[Brazil]

I'm fine with that obviously for the right price ! used properly Manu is a great asset to have. I enjoy seeing the big 3 together, the more time the better

[vander]

He better not get more than the league minimum.

[Capt Bringdown]

People in hell want ice water.

[freetiago]

a guy who plays 20-25 minutes and is doubtful to even play most of the time to begin with isnt worth 8 mil
id say around 5 mil since he is Manu

people are forgetting hed be like 37-38 the next two years
he wont be able to play any D and hell be relegated to spotup shooter/passer like Kidd is now

[Slutter McGee]

a guy who plays 20-25 minutes and is doubtful to even play most of the time to begin with isnt worth 8 mil
id say around 5 mil since he is Manu

people are forgetting hed be like 37-38 the next two years
he wont be able to play any D and hell be relegated to spotup shooter/passer like Kidd is now

No he wont. His drop in athleticism will make it tougher to finish at the rim, but his creativity will still allow it.

That said, I agree around the 5 mill mark would be fine. Can see going as high as 7 but wouldn't like it necessarily.

Slutter McGee

[timvp]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ginobili is worth $10M per season the next two years. Technically, looking at the metrics that measure the number of wins the Spurs get from Ginobili being on the team and then multiplying that number by the value of a win, Ginobili will have been worth the $14M he got this season.

Considering that Duncan set the bar at $10M per season, I think Ginobili will come in under that. If true, whatever he signs for will be a bargain. $7-8M would be a great deal for the Spurs. Even if he wants the same contract Duncan got, I'd give it to him.

Obviously we all hope Ginobili signs for the lowest amount possible in order to open up salary cap room. But let's not underestimate his true value ... he can still be great at times today and should remain a very good player in the next two seasons.

[superbigtime]

Ginobili = My idol

[DrunkTXLabrat]

timmy = 10-. parker = 12.5. ginobili = 7.5, but he makes 14+?! woops.

since ginobili is getting twice his worth this season. i wouldn't be surprised if he signs somewhere around 5. he's just too injury prone.

the homer in me wants him around for however long at whatever price. manu is a spurs is part of the best era of spurs basketball. because of him, timmy, and tony. my idea of a successful nba roster recipe. a big 3, splitter/leonard/joseph 1st round apprentice types, and minimum/2nd round/scrap cap signees.

[AFBlue]

My thoughts, posted in another thread...


FWIW, two years would take him out to the end of Duncan and Parker's current deals, so I don't think he just threw it out there coincidentally. I think the framework is there for a 2yr deal at between $6-8M/yr. I would also think if it's year-to-year as he says, the possibility exists for only a partial guarantee in yr 2.

[hater]

if spurs don't get to the finals this year. trade his ass for someone younger. His injury prone ass is still overvalued by most NBA GMs.

[Dex]

if spurs don't get to the finals this year. trade his ass for someone younger. His injury prone ass is still overvalued by most NBA GMs.

You are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor!

[hater]

I just don't get this extreme loyalty bullshit. It's not like Manu will be unemployed and won't be able to feed his children. A trade is not a cruel thing people :lmao

[spurraider21]

timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) I would agree that for the duration of his contract Manu had been well worth the 14 mil, which was actually a bargain. But this season has been different as he's had his usual dnp's, along with several (and I mean several) games with minutes south of 20 where he had little to no impact. He is still absolutely vital for postseason success, but I can't say I value Manu as much as Tim at this point, unless he avoids injury. I think 7-7.5 sounds about right. Then again I thought Duncan would ask for 12 a year.

[Budkin]

Sweet... Manu and Timmy for another 2 years. We are blessed to have been able to watch these greats for so long.

[Dex]

I just don't get this extreme loyalty bullshit. It's not like Manu will be unemployed and won't be able to feed his children. A trade is not a cruel thing people :lmao

Manu deserves to retire a Spur, just like Tim and Tony. He is part of the Big 3 and one of the best players to don a Spurs uniform.

It would be one thing if he was just a useless liability, but he is still one of the best players on the team, even during his TOSB days.

We are talking about Manu Ginobili here, not Avery fucking Johnson. :stirpot:

[Bruno]

Even if Spurs "only" pay Manu $6M per year, it will be more than his market value.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'd expect him to get something like 3 years and $20- 24 mil with the 3rd year partially guaranteed.

[Seventyniner]

Even if Spurs "only" pay Manu $6M per year, it will be more than his market value.

This is a good point. What Manu "deserves" (varies by opinion) given his past performance with the Spurs, and what he could get on the open market are very different things.

Just think about it: what teams out there will be under the cap enough to offer Manu more than the MLE and are also close enough to contention that they could use him as effectively as the Spurs can?

[Man In Black]

Manu says he sees no scenario that would see him switching teams. He wants to be in San Antonio and the Front Office wants him as well.
He says it close to the end of the interview.

Here is the audio from Manu on Jim Rome 030513:
http://jimrome.com/2013/03/05/manu-ginobili/

[Splits]

If the Spurs ring and Manu plays an irreplaceable role (which basically must happen for us to beat the Heat) and he doesn't want to retire with 4, then Manu will get $10m/year. Regular season fragility doesn't mean shit if he can get through the post season without injury putting up 30+ min a game.

[DPG21920]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ginobili is worth $10M per season the next two years. Technically, looking at the metrics that measure the number of wins the Spurs get from Ginobili being on the team and then multiplying that number by the value of a win, Ginobili will have been worth the $14M he got this season.

Considering that Duncan set the bar at $10M per season, I think Ginobili will come in under that. If true, whatever he signs for will be a bargain. $7-8M would be a great deal for the Spurs. Even if he wants the same contract Duncan got, I'd give it to him.

Obviously we all hope Ginobili signs for the lowest amount possible in order to open up salary cap room. But let's not underestimate his true value ... he can still be great at times today and should remain a very good player in the next two seasons.

This is exactly why the proliferation of advanced metrics bothers me.

[Slippy]

Glad he wants to come back. Manu will play it fair , spurs will give him what he deserves and that includes loyalty to the club.

[hater]

lots of teams would offer Manu 10mil a year. these are NBA Gms we are talking about. plus believe it or not Manu sells tickets.

[Bruno]

Manu says he sees no scenario that would see him switching teams. He wants to be in San Antonio and the Front Office wants him as well.


If the situation is as clear as that, Manu signing an extension in one month, that is to say when he will be eligible to receive one, would be a strong possibility.

An extension will only allow him to get two more years of contract but it seems to be the length he is looking at. A disadvantage of an extension for Ginobili is that he can't get a no-trade clause with it. Ginobili might rather wait the summer and sign a contract that guarantee him to stay in SA.

[Libri]

Even if Spurs "only" pay Manu $6M per year, it will be more than his market value.

If the Spurs do resign him, would they use the Bird exception? Can they use that exception whether the Spurs are under or over the cap?

[Man In Black]

If the situation is as clear as that, Manu signing an extension in one month, that is to say when he will be eligible to receive one, would be a strong possibility.

An extension will only allow him to get two more years of contract but it seems to be the length he is looking at. A disadvantage of an extension for Ginobili is that he can't get a no-trade clause with it. Ginobili might rather wait the summer and sign a contract that guarantee him to stay in SA.

He did say in the Rome interview that he will think about in July. Listen to the interview. Manu is fantastic and he always says the right things. He means what he says.

[DapDaGenius]

word.............. it wold be ill if manu was around long enough to mentor hanga .....................

Agreed.

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu is not stupid and he wants the Spurs to be successful so he'd take a hometown discount when he's resigned during the offseason. He'll get paid 3.5 to 5 a season for 2 seasons and call it a day when Tim rides off into the sunset.

[callo1]

If Manu is going to hang around for two more years, he will have to get used to coming off the bench!!

[timvp]

Even if Spurs "only" pay Manu $6M per year, it will be more than his market value.

Strongly disagree. There's just no case to support a case that Ginobili's value is MLE or less. Comparable situations:

-Jason Kidd getting a 3-year, $25M contract with the Mavs at age 36 back in 2009.

-Steve Nash getting a 2-year, $22M contract with the Suns at age 35 back in 2009.

-Steve Nash getting offered >$10 per season last offseason at age 38.



Ginobili, even with his injuries and his limited playing time, is easily the fourth best shooting guard in the NBA behind Harden, Wade and Bryant. I know we all hope that Ginobili signs for the least amount possible but let's not confuse what we think Ginobili's market value is and how much we hope he signs for -- those are two totally separate numbers. That confusion why there were Spurs fans who thought at this time last year that the Spurs should let Duncan walk if he asks for more than $8M per season :lol

[Sean Cagney]

Don't rush any of these guys. There'll be plenty of time to miss them.

TRUE! He can stay as long as he can still play at all.

[timvp]

timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) I would agree that for the duration of his contract Manu had been well worth the 14 mil, which was actually a bargain. But this season has been different as he's had his usual dnp's, along with several (and I mean several) games with minutes south of 20 where he had little to no impact. He is still absolutely vital for postseason success, but I can't say I value Manu as much as Tim at this point, unless he avoids injury. I think 7-7.5 sounds about right. Then again I thought Duncan would ask for 12 a year.

Well, it's not fair to base how much Ginobili is worth by comparing him to Duncan making $10 million per season. By most estimations, Ginobili being on the team has been good for ~6 additional wins for the Spurs this season. In the NBA, wins are worth ~$2 million. That means Ginobili has been worth ~$12 million this season. If he stays healthy the rest of the way (or a majority of it), he'll reach that ~$14 million mark.

For the record, by the same math, Duncan has been worth $19 million already this season (:lol @ the talk that Duncan shouldn't be re-signed for more than $6-8M).

Parker is sitting at a cool $24.4 million in value this season. Parker's contract in hindsight was a great move by the Spurs. They signed him at his lowest point to a very reasonable deal. Props to Parker too for accepting it and keeping the core together.

[timvp]

This is exactly why the proliferation of advanced metrics bothers me.

Yes, we should all use your subjective decision-making skills that concluded it was a bad idea to re-sign Duncan. Good call :tu

[ace3g]

309099150924996609

[Chinook]

I like the idea of him signing a two-year deal this off-season with the second year fully non-guaranteed. That way, if he decides to hang up his Spurs after next season, the Spurs can trade him if he allows it, or he can use his no-trade clause and retire without ever having to report for a physical. It think that gives the Spurs flexibility while allowing Ginobili to keep much of his leverage.

[Bill_Brasky]

309099150924996609

:lmao the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[TheGoldStandard]

I bet Manu has a ton of those braces in the closet. The Durable Medical guys they use put his kid through college with Manu's business.

[Bruno]

Strongly disagree. There's just no case to support a case that Ginobili's value is MLE or less.

So what teams will offer Ginobili a multiyear contract over the MLE this summer?

[anakha]

Someone really should have posted that tweet in a new thread to see how many heart attacks it would have caused.

[TheGoldStandard]

So what teams will offer Ginobili a multiyear contract over the MLE this summer?

The Knicks? They love to overpay for old vets.

[timvp]

So what teams will offer Ginobili a multiyear contract over the MLE this summer?

This sounds like the same logic that said the Spurs should offer Duncan $8M max and let him walk if he wants more. Just because Ginobili has painted himself in a corner by saying he's not signing elsewhere doesn't mean he's worth whatever number the Spurs want to pay him.

I want him to sign for $1M. In a hypothetical market where Ginobili is willing to sign elsewhere or get traded elsewhere in a sign-and-trade, he'd get >$10M/season. That's especially true when you add in intangibles like his willingness to fit any role and his fan-friendliness.

[Bruno]

In a hypothetical market where Ginobili is willing to sign elsewhere or get traded elsewhere in a sign-and-trade, he'd get >$10M/season.

That's where we disagree.

In that hypothetical scenario, which team would offer Ginobili $10M per year?

[justinandimcool]

309099150924996609


Already a TOSB at 3 years old

[callo1]

Already a TOSB at 3 years old

Not humorous, not cool.

Get well little Gino

[hater]

knicks, toronto, denver, memphis, I can see all these teams in line to throw money at shitbag Ginobili.

again this is the stupid NBA GMs we are talking about. When has money been an issue to them? :lol

[Bruno]

knicks, toronto, denver, memphis, I can see all these teams in line to throw money at shitbag Ginobili.

again this is the stupid NBA GMs we are talking about. When has money been an issue to them? :lol

These teams don't have the cap space to make an above MLE offer to Ginobili.

When you look at all the NBA teams, there isn't a single team with cap space this summer that should offer Ginobili something like $10M per year over 2 or 3 years. It would just makes little sense for them to do so.

Sign and trade aren't also a serious option because if Spurs free some cap space by not re-signing Ginobili, their best plan is to use it on a free agent instead of taking some average players comming from a a Ginobili S&T.

Ginobili market value, in it's basic sense: the value determined by the market, is the MLE.

Now, you can blow all that just by saying GMs are stupid...

[spurraider21]

Well, it's not fair to base how much Ginobili is worth by comparing him to Duncan making $10 million per season. By most estimations, Ginobili being on the team has been good for ~6 additional wins for the Spurs this season. In the NBA, wins are worth ~$2 million. That means Ginobili has been worth ~$12 million this season. If he stays healthy the rest of the way (or a majority of it), he'll reach that ~$14 million mark.

For the record, by the same math, Duncan has been worth $19 million already this season (:lol @ the talk that Duncan shouldn't be re-signed for more than $6-8M).

Parker is sitting at a cool $24.4 million in value this season. Parker's contract in hindsight was a great move by the Spurs. They signed him at his lowest point to a very reasonable deal. Props to Parker too for accepting it and keeping the core together.
So Lebron is worth 70 mil or so :lol

but in all fairness, all the talk about player value and value of wins needs to be adjusted based on our team budget. While Parker and Duncan by your estimate are worth over 40 mil combined (and counting) Holts pockets wouldn't run deep enough to sustain our team.

with a salary cap near 60 million, teams at or below the cap max out at 30 wins by those numbers

[DPG21920]

Yes, we should all use your subjective decision-making skills that concluded it was a bad idea to re-sign Duncan. Good call :tu

No.

[DPG21920]

I love the use of advanced stats in basketball - most of my comments come after studying them. What I don't like is some of their application - as in the case of Manu Ginobili.

Any advanced stat that says a player Ginobili's age receiving 14M as fair and justifiable is beyond silly to me when you look at the reality of the market place plus other factors (age, MPG, injuries...).

[hater]

These teams don't have the cap space to make an above MLE offer to Ginobili.

When you look at all the NBA teams, there isn't a single team with cap space this summer that should offer Ginobili something like $10M per year over 2 or 3 years. It would just makes little sense for them to do so.

Sign and trade aren't also a serious option because if Spurs free some cap space by not re-signing Ginobili, their best plan is to use it on a free agent instead of taking some average players comming from a a Ginobili S&T.

Ginobili market value, in it's basic sense: the value determined by the market, is the MLE.

Now, you can blow all that just by saying GMs are stupid...

As of today maybe. but they can make the space by making trades,etc can't they?

again, I'm sure Manu can command 10 mil easily when the time comes. ANd yes, GM's being historically stupid at throwing money is a valid point in this argument.

[DPG21920]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192525&highlight=contract+duncan

[DAF86]

These teams don't have the cap space to make an above MLE offer to Ginobili.

When you look at all the NBA teams, there isn't a single team with cap space this summer that should offer Ginobili something like $10M per year over 2 or 3 years. It would just makes little sense for them to do so.

Sign and trade aren't also a serious option because if Spurs free some cap space by not re-signing Ginobili, their best plan is to use it on a free agent instead of taking some average players comming from a a Ginobili S&T.

Ginobili market value, in it's basic sense: the value determined by the market, is the MLE.

Now, you can blow all that just by saying GMs are stupid...

Ginobili wouldn't hesitate on moving to Europe if he feels like the Spurs and/or other NBA teams are lowballing him.

[Chinook]

I agree with Bruno (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449), timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8). Just as there is a difference between what Ginobili is worth and what fans hope he accepts, there is too a difference between what Ginobili is worth and what he'd get on the open market. I can understand your argument about advanced metrics, but I think it shows how much bang the Spurs (or any team) would get for their buck by signing Ginobili/Duncan. Kidd and Nash (in Phoenix) were re-signing with their teams. Those teams already had a reason to keep their players, whether it was to remain competitive or to keep a fan favorite. It's a lot harder to see a team with cap space (which, besides the Spurs and Hawks, will most likely be a bad team) signing an older player on a straight deal. The best chance of that happening would probably be a sign-and-trade like you suggested, but even in that case, I find it hard to see how most teams would value Ginobili as highly as the Spurs do.

In Kidd's case, he also played 80 or more games in the four season prior to getting his deal. Even though Kidd was old, he didn't have Ginobili's injury concerns. Nash had played 75 or more games for the last eight seasons leading up to his 2009 deal. Meanwhile, in the last eight years, Ginobili's only reached that many games four times, and only once in the last four years. (He can't do it this season, and he missed 32 games last season.) I think it's entirely fair to say teams would shy way from giving him big bucks this off-season. For the Spurs, it's possible that Ginobili would build in options in his contract to protect the Spurs in case he decides to retire in the middle of his deal. I doubt he'd do that for another team.

So yes, I don't think Ginobili's market value is as high as you think it is. I don't think Duncan's was, either. Neither are players that teams can use as building blocks, and stop-gaps/mentors usually don't usually get premium deals on the open market. You add in that most of the teams that could offer them a contract like you theorized would be bad teams, and I could see both retiring rather than having to change cities to be in bad situations for their last years. Like it or not, the Spurs have more leverage than it may appear.

EDIT: Kidd averaged 8.5 win shares in the four years leading up to his deal, while Nash averaged 11.5. By comparison, Ginobili has only averaged 6.5 (not counting this season). Even by your metric, it's hard to say Ginobili deserves as much as those two got.

[Chinook]

Interestingly enough, Nash and Kidd got about $1 Million per year for every win-share they averaged in the four years prior to their deal (Kidd $8.33M to 8.5WS and Nash $11M to 11.5WS). Looking at that, Ginobili seems to be worth a two-year, $13 Million contract. I think the Spurs will do $7 Million, but by no means that is well below his market value.

[Pop]

7 Millions sounds fair, still way above what any of the scrubs are making.

Bigger question is how much Splitter will get, much more risky situation in that we're likely to overpay or have to let him walk.

[racm]

Give Manu a contract similar to Timmy's, RC.

A high value contract for two years with the second being a player option.

That way there's cap room for when the 2014/2015 rebuild starts.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

7 Millions sounds fair, still way above what any of the scrubs are making.

Bigger question is how much Splitter will get, much more risky situation in that we're likely to overpay or have to let him walk.

wonder what the advanced stats say about that? i'd guess 11ish.

[spurs10]

Manu will sign for less than he could get elsewhere,no doubt. He is one of the biggest fan drawing players in the NBA. His popularity is just as strong today as it's always been. If the last two games are anything to go by, he is still responsible for wins as well. I was very happy to hear his Rome interview today, and hear he's not going anywhere. My guess is, whatever they pay him, it will easily be half of the revenue the Spurs would lose if they let him walk. That's actually being conservative. They'll pay him as much as they can while keeping the team as together as possible. Manu's going to want the team to remain strong as much as anyone. As a Spurs fan, I consider myself extremely lucky. As timvp has said, enjoy these times while you can folks!!!
:flag:

[ElNono]

That's where we disagree.

In that hypothetical scenario, which team would offer Ginobili $10M per year?

Dallas would be one team. IIRC, only Dirk, Carter and a few rooks are signed for next season (and then become expirings). Mayo is a Player option and Marion has an ETO. They have nearly $21 million coming off their books.

Atlanta is another team that will have cap space next year. Only $22M committed. It will largely depend on what happens with Josh Smith, I suspect.

Utah could be another destination. They have their biggest 3 contracts coming off the books at the end of the season.

At any rate, his market value is certainly over $6m.

I still think Manu would rather end his career with the Spurs and will take less money to make it happen. But there are possibly some other destinations out there for him.

[spurs10]

Dallas would be one team. IIRC, only Dirk, Carter and a few rooks are signed for next season (and then become expirings). Mayo is a Player option and Marion has an ETO. They have nearly $21 million coming off their books.

Atlanta is another team that will have cap space next year. Only $22M committed. It will largely depend on what happens with Josh Smith, I suspect.

Utah could be another destination. They have their biggest 3 contracts coming off the books at the end of the season.

At any rate, his market value is certainly over $6m.

I still think Manu would rather end his career with the Spurs and will take less money to make it happen. But there are possibly some other destinations out there for him.

What he said!

[chapnis]

I think if Manu for some reason didn't sign for the spurs he would chase a championship not money

[Spursfanfromafar]

Dallas would be one team. IIRC, only Dirk, Carter and a few rooks are signed for next season (and then become expirings). Mayo is a Player option and Marion has an ETO. They have nearly $21 million coming off their books.

Atlanta is another team that will have cap space next year. Only $22M committed. It will largely depend on what happens with Josh Smith, I suspect.

Utah could be another destination. They have their biggest 3 contracts coming off the books at the end of the season.

At any rate, his market value is certainly over $6m.

I still think Manu would rather end his career with the Spurs and will take less money to make it happen. But there are possibly some other destinations out there for him.

How about Houston signing him as a sixth man (for $10 mil * 2) and effectively get two Ginobilis (the older original and the superstar wannabe) to play for them? They could round off their Lin, Harden, Parsons, Asik, Ginobili core with a good PF/C. An amnestied Pau Gasol perhaps?

Ergo, not true that there exists no market for Ginobili at a high price outside Spurs, if my limited knowledge of salaries is right.

[Bruno]

As of today maybe. but they can make the space by making trades,etc can't they?

Not really, they can't.
Creating cap space through trades is damn hard to do and very costly in assets.


Dallas would be one team. IIRC, only Dirk, Carter and a few rooks are signed for next season (and then become expirings). Mayo is a Player option and Marion has an ETO. They have nearly $21 million coming off their books.

Atlanta is another team that will have cap space next year. Only $22M committed. It will largely depend on what happens with Josh Smith, I suspect.

Utah could be another destination. They have their biggest 3 contracts coming off the books at the end of the season.

At any rate, his market value is certainly over $6m.

I still think Manu would rather end his career with the Spurs and will take less money to make it happen. But there are possibly some other destinations out there for him.

These 3 teams likely won't go after Ginobili with multiyear contract at around $10M per year.

Dallas might be interested with Ginobili at $10M but for only one year. In 2014-2015, they won't have a single player under contract. I'm sure Cuban won't like to lower that cap space for a a 37 years old Ginobili. Cuban might dream of a Heat like scenario.

Utah and Atlanta are so-so teams with a young core. Adding an aging Ginobili isn't really appealing to them. He might be a good plan B or C if they don't get their coveted free agents but, like with Dallas, they won't offer him a multiyear contract to keep a shot at the 2014 free agents.

[Kuestmaster]

re-sign him until he wants too. but I hope he stays reasonable and don't asks much more than 8 per year.

[AFBlue]

The hypotheticals are ridiculous. Manu isn't getting $10M/yr and he isn't going anywhere else.

Were all the veteran posters just bored yesterday? Not per par, imo, tbh.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs do resign him, would they use the Bird exception? Can they use that exception whether the Spurs are under or over the cap?

Considering that there will be large cap holds for Manu and Jack, there's little danger of SA actually being under the cap.

[exstatic]

So what teams will offer Ginobili a multiyear contract over the MLE this summer?

What teams offered Tim $10M?

[Mark in Austin]

three years at $9M, $8M, $7M with the third year only partially guaranteed would work for me.

[Darkwaters]

Not really, they can't.
Creating cap space through trades is damn hard to do and very costly in assets.


Bruno just hit 16,000 posts. Most of which were pretty damn solid posts too. Keep it up. I always pay attention when you post something.

[kaji157]

The Spurs already gave him a max contract, his next contract will be a 2 years 12-15 millions tops.

[Libri]

Considering that there will be large cap holds for Manu and Jack, there's little danger of SA actually being under the cap.

Thanks. Just trying to understand the business side better, which frankly I lack.

[hater]

Not really, they can't.
Creating cap space through trades is damn hard to do and very costly in assets.


so just because something is "damn hard" it's not doable or possible?

that's a pretty weak argument.

again some team would offer Manu 8 figures. If available he'd be one of the top free agents out there. Now I'm not saying he's worth that, but some GMs would most definitely go for it.

[TD 21]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ginobili is worth $10M per season the next two years. Technically, looking at the metrics that measure the number of wins the Spurs get from Ginobili being on the team and then multiplying that number by the value of a win, Ginobili will have been worth the $14M he got this season.

Considering that Duncan set the bar at $10M per season, I think Ginobili will come in under that. If true, whatever he signs for will be a bargain. $7-8M would be a great deal for the Spurs. Even if he wants the same contract Duncan got, I'd give it to him.

Obviously we all hope Ginobili signs for the lowest amount possible in order to open up salary cap room. But let's not underestimate his true value ... he can still be great at times today and should remain a very good player in the next two seasons.

I agree with much of what you said in this thread, but not this. There's zero chance he should be (or will be, both because they won't offer it and he won't seek it) given the same contract as Duncan. No matter his popularity, he doesn't mean as much to the franchise, nor is he as important on court or as durable. I know it's not necessarily his fault that Pop is beyond overly cautious with him, but still, he plays roughly half a game the past two years and is constantly in and out of the lineup. $7-8M is fine, but not $10.

[vander]

:lol
so who still thinks he's worth more than 5 mil for 2 more years?



just retire man, retire today

[spursfaninla]

Manu's offense has not been good, granted.

Even during his bad play the last 11 or so games, he has had some very high assist games during Parker's absence, something that no other spur can regularly replicate. De colo had 1 or 2 games like that, but he neither reaches the peaks that Manu reaches, nor the regularity, and he certainly can't contribute offensively what Manu does, even compared to his current offensive production.

Manu is the only other back court player, besides parker, that can create for others. Neal can create for himself but is not nearly as effective at realizing when and where he should dish instead of forcing it.

Given these two needs (back court shot creation and assists), Manu's skill set, regardless of his current 11+ game slippage, still contributes things to this team that no other player can bring. If his current play reflects long-term his ability, his role with the spurs will obviously change because he can't guard and he can't score. If those are temporary things, then no biggie.

His current weak play is scary, because the spurs are going to lose early in the playoffs with Manu and the bench playing at the current level.

[Ditty]

Manu still causes a lot of defenses to commit to him, but $5 million a year 2 year contract sounds fair if he is decent in the playoffs. $7 million would be overpaying but if he has a few great games in the playoffs, and leads us to the WCF or Finals I wouldn't mind paying him that much.

[Dex]

Honestly, Manu's current play could be a good thing for the Spurs fiscally. If they base his next contract off of what he is currently producing, they could have him for a very reasonable rate.

Still, I'd prefer the Manu of yesteryear to show up for the playoffs, even if it did cost the Spurs more in the long run. We NEED Manu to be Manu if we want to see Timmy get number 5.

[tmtcsc]

I would like him to start playing this year.

[BackHome]

three year five mill with last year Spur option. His name recognition can get him more but what he produces on the floor is five mill at his age.