Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Bulls - March 6

[timvp]

Tim Duncan A-
Held the ball and dominated it too much at times but was otherwise splendid. Great D in the paint. Strong on the boards. Provided the Spurs a foundation to build around on both ends.

Manu Ginobili A
Had a few bouts of sloppiness -- even on D -- but overall played really well. His aggression on O was hugely helpful and his passing was marvelous. His ascension into a larger role has been seamless thus far.

Kawhi Leonard A-
Tenacious on D -- sometimes he was actually too ferocious and got out of position. But, all in all, D was a plus. On O, his finishing was strong. His confidence on this end is blossoming right in front of our eyes.

Danny Green B
The Bulls are great at defending the three-point line, which limited his impact. But, nevertheless, he found ways to chip in. He took quality shots, didn’t force things and limited his mistakes on both ends.

Cory Joseph B+
His stats look pedestrian but I thought he did well. His running of the O was inconsistent but he took care of the ball and was mindful about pushing the pace. His D was solid and his rebounding was stout.

Tiago Splitter A-
The Bad: His post-up game wasn’t working and he didn’t attack mismatches well. The Good: Most everything else. Great on the boards. Played physically. Rolled to the hoop well. Good passing.

Stephen Jackson C+
His turnovers drew Pop’s ire at times -- and rightfully so. He’s still too inconsistent from play to play. That said, his D was above average, he hit the glass and put together a few positive moments on O.

Patrick Mills A-
It was great to see him play well in meaningful minutes. His playmaking wasn’t anything to write home about but he didn’t turn it over while knocking in 13 key points. Hopefully this jumpstarts his season.

Boris Diaw A-
During the most important stretch of the game, he was outstanding. His ability to score or pass from the high-post was flummoxing Chicago. Looked a bit winded but it was a successful return from injury.

Matt Bonner C
Played a mostly forgettable eight minutes. Tried hard on O but wasn’t helping much. Chicago’s physicality diminished his value on D.

DeJuan Blair C+
Active on D but not always in the right places. On O, he was involved -- but, again, not always in a good way.

Pop A-
Can’t complain much. The rotation was weird sometimes but he ended up pushing correct buttons. He harped on limiting turnovers and doing that in the 2nd half was perhaps the No. 1 key to the victory.

[Tim_duncan21]

Thanks for the quick grades. Good to know that Corey Joseph is having another positive night as a starter.

[Brunodf]

TD/Jack grades are too low. Diaw too high.

Thanks.

[racm]

I like Joseph's inability to turn the ball over while forcing the opponent to turn it over.

[Baynes]

More minutes for CoJo!!!! :D

[Darius McCrary]

Thought Cory did damn well, and his positives translate to playoff ball better than Mill's chunking. JMO

[spurraider21]

Tiago's post up game has been nonexistent for most of the season. His back to the basket game is painful to watch and typical ends up with an awkward hook.

That said, he's dynamite on the pick and roll, and even when he faces up, he has that nifty up and under he always goes to, Scola style

[ElNono]

Thanks LJ.. Agree with that other poster that Jack's grade is too low.

[racm]

Tiago's post up game has been nonexistent for most of the season. His back to the basket game is painful to watch and typical ends up with an awkward hook.

That said, he's dynamite on the pick and roll, and even when he faces up, he has that nifty up and under he always goes to, Scola style

You don't need a back to the basket game if you're not a first option in the post fwiw.

[spurraider21]

You don't need a back to the basket game if you're not a first option in the post fwiw.

I know. I'm not unhappy with Tiago at all, don't get me wrong. I just think it would come in handy if OKC tries to play us small or they switch on a Tiago screen. It would be easier to punish them for that if he was able to back people down a bit better

[SpurPadre]

Timvp comes off like he's surprised that Manu's having success playing in a larger role. Uh, there is a track record of him having success before...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Splitter took Noah into the post twice and scored. He backed Boozer in a couple of times as well. Remember he missed a gimme off that in the first quarter.

[Capt Bringdown]

Grade inflation for Blair, as per usual

[racm]

Timvp comes off like he's surprised that Manu's having success playing in a larger role. Uh, there is a track record of him having success before...

I think Manu's W-L record as a starter speaks for itself, but I'd keep on bringing him off the bench if I were Pop.

[DAF86]

Not a word about Diaw's defense? I think this was one of the main aspects that helped turn this game around.

[Pasta Batman]

I think Manu's W-L record as a starter speaks for itself, but I'd keep on bringing him off the bench if I were Pop.

It's the best way to ensure one of the big 3 are on the court at all times.

[ace3g]

I don't know if Spurs win this game if Diaw can't play tonight; Pop would have been forced to go small (which might have worked) or had to give some minutes to Bonner/Blair in 2nd half; which would have been a disaster.

[letmk]

I don't know if Spurs win this game if Diaw can't play tonight; Pop would have been forced to go small (which might have worked) or had to give some minutes to Bonner/Blair in 2nd half; which would have been a disaster.

I like CoJo finally get some chance to show his capability, and hopefully it's not too late for him to become part of playoff rotations. But I would give Baynes some chances as well. Blair and Bonner cannot contribute to the playoffs anyways, what's the harm to give Baynes some minutes?

[Nero5]

A win is a win, but it was not a good one IMO. The bench players will get better with more minutes, CoJo's handle will get better, Mill's shooting cannot get much more effecient. However the not good aspect was the offensive boards, SA are weak, looked weak and the stats across the last 10 games confirm it. Playoff time will change the game and they need more boards when the defensive pressure grows and the shot percentage shrinks.

[bbarry]

no more game thoughts threads? holy hell you've gotten lazy.

smh

[timvp]

no more game thoughts threads? holy hell you've gotten lazy.

smh

LOL True... we've been on vacation for almost the last three weeks.

--Kori

[ace3g]

Does the bat get a grade?

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/wp-content/blogs.dir/617/files/spurs-101-bulls-83/bkn_spurs_bulls_1303a_bc_16.jpg

[Fireball]

A win is a win, but it was not a good one IMO.

This was another example, that if Pop leaves Blair and Bonner on the bench our D is so much better ... game was over with that decision, so it was a good game

[DesertSpur50]

Are we undefeated when the bat shows up? I think we're 3-0.

[jesterbobman]

Bonner and Blair individually are obviously not as good defensively as the other bigs, but the difference is amplified when they play together. It's just a bad combination.

I doubt Corey is fully confident offensively(Natural, I don't think that he's played 100 significant NBA minutes yet) but he's definitely looking solid defensively. Kept upright, knew where screens were and contested shots. You can't really ask for more. That's true regardless of the success of shots.

I'll also add that I like the fact that in transition, the Spurs are back screening a big man on the drive to prevent a contest. Happened with Kawhi's RH dunk(Duncan screening Noah) and Baynes screened(In the Bobcats game) on an S-Jax drive. Clever way to open up holes.

[biskvito]

Does the bat get a grade?

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/wp-content/blogs.dir/617/files/spurs-101-bulls-83/bkn_spurs_bulls_1303a_bc_16.jpg

Kevin Durant is a vampire, that's his scout right there.

[99 Problems]

Just watched the replay. Patty (not so)'small minutes' Mills really is a crowd fav. TD run up into the stand, wow, how good was that?

[Fireball]

TD run up into the stand, wow, how good was that?

Thankfully the stairs were there after Boozer pushed him ... I cringe every time Timmy tries to prevent falling on the floor because he might put too much stress on his knee ...

[Slippy]

the second half rotation mainly with Tiagoo at the pivot was the best move POP made from the first half. Defense stepped up at the same time. Great defense lead to great offense.

[Boomersgold]

We really need to trade for a competent, experienced backup big. The only way that I see us being able to compete with the backup big men of the top NBA teams is if either Duncan or Splitter play some minutes with the bench.

[AussieFanKurt]

lots of dunks in this game, more than usual

[Slippy]

Not a word about Diaw's defense? I think this was one of the main aspects that helped turn this game around

im not so sure .. Don't get me wrong . Having Diaw out there again was comforting and the offense had a new dynamic but that second half was the first time in a long time Pop had gone back to Tiago or Tim staying at the center spot when subbing.

[Captivus]

Matt Bonner C
Played a mostly forgettable eight minutes. Tried hard on O but wasn’t helping much. Chicago’s physicality diminished his value on D.


I don’t agree with this grade. He played awful. As soon as he entered the game the Bulls started coming back. He missed open shots.
Either Jackson and Blair get a higher grade, or Bonner has to get a D.

I think Green played well, agree with the grade, I think teams are starting to pay attention to him.

[spurraider21]

We really need to trade for a competent, experienced backup big. The only way that I see us being able to compete with the either backup big men of the top NBA teams is if either Duncan or Splitter play some minutes with the bench.

We should have Tim or Tiago out there at all times, its that simple. I mean if they're playing together, its great. If Tiago is paired with Boris, thats fine. If Tim is paired with Boris, I'm fine. Same with Blair, Bonner if necessary. But to have turd towers or Diaw with one of them is unacceptable. We need rim protectors. Unless Pop is planning on giving Baynes minutes (not likely this season) we can't afford to rest Tim and Tiago together against playoff teams

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And Nando?

[Obstructed_View]

Anyone sort of get the feeling that Pop wanted to rest Diaw for the game, which is why he was out of the rotation in the first half? He looked rusty when he got the call in the second half but after that awkward floater went in he seemed to really get engaged.

[Obstructed_View]

I don’t agree with this grade. He played awful. As soon as he entered the game the Bulls started coming back. He missed open shots.
Either Jackson and Blair get a higher grade, or Bonner has to get a D.

I think Green played well, agree with the grade, I think teams are starting to pay attention to him.

I have to agree. Even with low expectations for Bonner, his negative impact on the game in every way was tangible. I believe the word that came to mind while watching was "disastrous". When the king of plus minus manages to be ten points behind the second worst guy on the team, you know he royally shit the bed.

[Dex]

Kevin Durant is a vampire, that's his scout right there.

He looks fine to me.

[Phenomanul]

He looks fine to me.

I see what you did there.... :lol

[MVPCues]

I heard that bat was looking for Baynes.

[benstanfield]

Kawhi > Deng in head to head matchups this year.
Through 2 games:

Leonard: 17-27, 40 PTS, 11 REB, 2 AST, 1 TO, +/- +33
Deng: 12-30, 30 PTS, 18 REB, 4 AST, 5 TO, +/- -20

[elemento]

Kawhi is dunking with his left hand effortless, it's so freaking nice to see it.

I haven't checked the scorebox, but Cojo looked good to me. He can bring the ball and initiate the offense without much problem, even with pressure on him. He has good ball-handling skills and his defense always looks good, against small/quick guards (like Nate or Teagye) or against bigger guards (Marco).

In my opinion he defended Belineli better than Green and Manu in the 2nd half.

His jump-shot still needs some work, but I like what I see so far. The time he spent with the Toros paid dividends and I am very happy about it.

I think Tiago struggles a bit to defend 4s that can shoot the mid-range. OKC explored Splitter a lot by setting pick & pop plays with Westbrook/Ibaka against Tiago and Chicago did the same. He doesn't look really comfortable guarding players outside the post. Depending on the matchup, I think Pop will have to pair Boris with Timmy. I think Boris played really well and did an outstanding job defending Boozer.

As for Ginobili, he committed some silly turnovers but he took over the game, so I can't complain. It was vintage Manu Ginobili. I hope Parker's injury is a blessing in disguise and I hope we can see this type of Manu in the playoffs.

Overall I liked the game. The only disgusting part was watching the lead disappearing with the Turd Towers in only a few minutes. Our opponets see Matt Bonner as a huge avenue to be explored. It seems funny to say it, but it looks like Bonner is a boost that our opponents need to play better. Don't wanna see his face in the playoffs 1 single second seriously.

[silverblk mystix]

I don't know if I was the only one...

but I got a little nervous and saw the Spurs season flash before my eyes when Timmy ran into the stands...

then he remained on his feet and ran back out on the court - and I let out a sigh of relief.

[TheGoldStandard]

Kawhi is dunking with his left hand effortless, it's so freaking nice to see it.

I haven't checked the scorebox, but Cojo looked good to me. He can bring the ball and initiate the offense without much problem, even with pressure on him. He has good ball-handling skills and his defense always looks good, against small/quick guards (like Nate or Teagye) or against bigger guards (Marco).

In my opinion he defended Belineli better than Green and Manu in the 2nd half.

His jump-shot still needs some work, but I like what I see so far. The time he spent with the Toros paid dividends and I am very happy about it.

I think Tiago struggles a bit to defend 4s that can shoot the mid-range. OKC explored Splitter a lot by setting pick & pop plays with Westbrook/Ibaka against Tiago. He doesn't look really comfortable guarding players outside the post. Depending on the matchup, I think Pop will have to par Boris with Timmy. I think Boris played really well and did an outstanding job defending Boozer.

As for Ginobili, he committed some silly turnovers but he took over the game, so I can't complain. It was vintage Manu Ginobili. I hope Parker's injury is a blessing in disguise and I hope we can see this type of Manu in the playoffs.

Overall I liked the game. The only disgusting part was watching the lead disappearing with the Turd Towers in only a few minutes. Our opponets see Matt Bonner as a huge avenue to be explored. It seems funny to say it, but it looks like Bonner is a boost that our opponents need to play better. Don't wanna see his face in the playoffs 1 single second seriously.

Putting Matt Bonner in the game is like putting a lit match next to severely dry brush that's been soaked with gasoline, everyone gets burned. The biggest obstacle with the Spurs in the post season will be Pop beating Pop. Let's start the #LetBonnerSit campaign.

[Brunodf]

We really need to trade for a competent, experienced backup big. The only way that I see us being able to compete with the backup big men of the top NBA teams is if either Duncan or Splitter play some minutes with the bench.
Spurs have Baynes, but Pop still playing Bonner/Blair. Hopefully Pop will not play the turd towers in the playoffs, 3 bigs rotation is good enough

[PhingerRoll]

Putting Matt Bonner in the game is like putting a lit match next to severely dry brush that's been soaked with gasoline, everyone gets burned. The biggest obstacle with the Spurs in the post season will be Pop beating Pop. Let's start the #LetBonnerSit campaign.

Why is it so difficult for some of us fans to accept that the best Coach in the business may just know more about his team than we do?

[Fireball]

lots of dunks in this game, more than usual

its started in the Kings game and is a recurring theme so far ... Spurs also seem to get other kinds of fast breaks without TP on the court

[maverick1948]

Does the bat get a grade?

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/wp-content/blogs.dir/617/files/spurs-101-bulls-83/bkn_spurs_bulls_1303a_bc_16.jpg

A+ for the bat. Even brought a smile to the players. Big Will had the Dream finger shake for Manu to leave it alone. LOL

[maverick1948]

I don’t agree with this grade. He played awful. As soon as he entered the game the Bulls started coming back. He missed open shots.
Either Jackson and Blair get a higher grade, or Bonner has to get a D.

I think Green played well, agree with the grade, I think teams are starting to pay attention to him.

In defense of Bonner it was SJax and Manu who had 3 quick turnovers that lead to the Bulls scoring. Maybe you should watch game closer.

[spurspokesman]

Kawhi is dunking with his left hand effortless, it's so freaking nice to see it.

I haven't checked the scorebox, but Cojo looked good to me. He can bring the ball and initiate the offense without much problem, even with pressure on him. He has good ball-handling skills and his defense always looks good, against small/quick guards (like Nate or Teagye) or against bigger guards (Marco).

In my opinion he defended Belineli better than Green and Manu in the 2nd half.

His jump-shot still needs some work, but I like what I see so far. The time he spent with the Toros paid dividends and I am very happy about it.

I think Tiago struggles a bit to defend 4s that can shoot the mid-range. OKC explored Splitter a lot by setting pick & pop plays with Westbrook/Ibaka against Tiago and Chicago did the same. He doesn't look really comfortable guarding players outside the post. Depending on the matchup, I think Pop will have to pair Boris with Timmy. I think Boris played really well and did an outstanding job defending Boozer.

As for Ginobili, he committed some silly turnovers but he took over the game, so I can't complain. It was vintage Manu Ginobili. I hope Parker's injury is a blessing in disguise and I hope we can see this type of Manu in the playoffs.

Overall I liked the game. The only disgusting part was watching the lead disappearing with the Turd Towers in only a few minutes. Our opponets see Matt Bonner as a huge avenue to be explored. It seems funny to say it, but it looks like Bonner is a boost that our opponents need to play better. Don't wanna see his face in the playoffs 1 single second seriously.
+1

[Obstructed_View]

In defense of Bonner it was SJax and Manu who had 3 quick turnovers that lead to the Bulls scoring. Maybe you should watch game closer.

While we're suggesting to other posters to watch more closely, it was Bonner's entrance into the game in the FIRST quarter where the Bulls went from nine points down to two points up.

[Arcadian]

I don't mind Tim dominating the ball. I think he's earned the right. I liked the assertiveness. He certainly made some nice passes too.

[TheyCallMePro]

Was anybody else surprised that Nando hardly played at all? I mean I've always thought he was very average and he simply lacked the unique skillsets that Neal, Cojo, and Mills bring to the table but still. He's French. This wont sit well with Parker when he comes back.

[TheGoldStandard]

Bonner was the only Spur last night with a negative +/- with -9

[TheGoldStandard]

Was anybody else surprised that Nando hardly played at all? I mean I've always thought he was very average and he simply lacked the unique skillsets that Neal, Cojo, and Mills bring to the table but still. He's French. This wont sit well with Parker when he comes back.

First season with the team, no real defined role and still trying to figure out his skill set. He shows flashes but who knows might make for good trade bait down the line.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

I would have gave patty a B tbh, he saged off his man way too much on D. He must have gave up at least 3 or 4 3s in the 2nd quarter alone.

[024]

i don't mind no more game thoughts. you should combine it with quick grades by making the grades a little longer.

[MR-Clutch]

Can someone post the video of kawhis dunks? There's only one on nba.com. How all 3 didn't make the top 10 is beyond me.

[MR-Clutch]

Nm found them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwuATcZEPDk

[Southwest Texas Fan]

Kawhi is dunking with his left hand effortless, it's so freaking nice to see it.

I haven't checked the scorebox, but Cojo looked good to me. He can bring the ball and initiate the offense without much problem, even with pressure on him. He has good ball-handling skills and his defense always looks good, against small/quick guards (like Nate or Teagye) or against bigger guards (Marco).

In my opinion he defended Belineli better than Green and Manu in the 2nd half.

His jump-shot still needs some work, but I like what I see so far. The time he spent with the Toros paid dividends and I am very happy about it.

I think Tiago struggles a bit to defend 4s that can shoot the mid-range. OKC explored Splitter a lot by setting pick & pop plays with Westbrook/Ibaka against Tiago and Chicago did the same. He doesn't look really comfortable guarding players outside the post. Depending on the matchup, I think Pop will have to pair Boris with Timmy. I think Boris played really well and did an outstanding job defending Boozer.

As for Ginobili, he committed some silly turnovers but he took over the game, so I can't complain. It was vintage Manu Ginobili. I hope Parker's injury is a blessing in disguise and I hope we can see this type of Manu in the playoffs.

Overall I liked the game. The only disgusting part was watching the lead disappearing with the Turd Towers in only a few minutes. Our opponets see Matt Bonner as a huge avenue to be explored. It seems funny to say it, but it looks like Bonner is a boost that our opponents need to play better. Don't wanna see his face in the playoffs 1 single second seriously.

I think Cojo may be our answer to Eric Bledsoe.

[EricB]

Spurs have Baynes, but Pop still playing Bonner/Blair. Hopefully Pop will not play the turd towers in the playoffs, 3 bigs rotation is good enough

Baynes is not a competent experienced player...

[EricB]

Where is this "experienced back up big" the spurs are passing on and not getting?


waiting for names...

[Kidd K]

I'm glad the Spurs finally pulled the trigger on using Corey Joseph as the backup PG. De Colo is not a real PG imo. Joseph looks so much better, it's not even funny. I realize all that D league time was a big plus for him though. . .so maybe they held him out for the perfect amount of time to blossom into what he is now.

Joseph's going to be a solid backup PG for years to come imo. Much better handles than De Colo, and seems more agile and less sloppy overall too.

[Captivus]

In defense of Bonner it was SJax and Manu who had 3 quick turnovers that lead to the Bulls scoring. Maybe you should watch game closer.

Thats what happens when your team has 1 less player.

[Pasta Batman]

I'm glad the Spurs finally pulled the trigger on using Corey Joseph as the backup PG. De Colo is not a real PG imo. Joseph looks so much better, it's not even funny. I realize all that D league time was a big plus for him though. . .so maybe they held him out for the perfect amount of time to blossom into what he is now.

Joseph's going to be a solid backup PG for years to come imo. Much better handles than De Colo, and seems more agile and less sloppy overall too.

Nando's biggest problem is time. CJ has 2 years on him, where they focused nearly exclusively on his game. Nando raw is better than CJ's raw, but Nando needs one more summer. Honestly, Austin would be a good place to get a jump start, but injuries have definitely put pressure on keeping a bigger roster. His shot has definitely improved since the beginning of the season, but a summer with Chip is mostly needed. That and working out with their strength coach chad forcier

[Aztecfan03]

Nando's biggest problem is time. CJ has 2 years on him, where they focused nearly exclusively on his game. Nando raw is better than CJ's raw, but Nando needs one more summer. Honestly, Austin would be a good place to get a jump start, but injuries have definitely put pressure on keeping a bigger roster. His shot has definitely improved since the beginning of the season, but a summer with Chip is mostly needed. That and working out with their strength coach chad forcier

You mean CJ has 1 year on him? This is only CJ's second season.

[mando6599]

Nando's biggest problem is time. CJ has 2 years on him, where they focused nearly exclusively on his game. Nando raw is better than CJ's raw, but Nando needs one more summer. Honestly, Austin would be a good place to get a jump start, but injuries have definitely put pressure on keeping a bigger roster. His shot has definitely improved since the beginning of the season, but a summer with Chip is mostly needed. That and working out with their strength coach chad forcier

This, I agree with. IIRC, many here were fervently questioning the drafting of CoJo two years ago. Development takes a while with younger guys, esp. considering most don't stay a full 4 years in college, a la Duncan. TP took a while to really develop, he wasn't a born star overnight. Give Nando a Summer league or two, and I feel he'll be at backup level by then, too. His instincts with the pass are incredible, from what I've seen this year. His shot does need work, but like Pasta said, working with Chip will help immensely.

[Obstructed_View]

I would have gave patty a B tbh, he saged off his man way too much on D. He must have gave up at least 3 or 4 3s in the 2nd quarter alone.
That's only the ones that went in. Robinson missed at least two that were wide open. It was shocking how many open threes the Bulls guards got on Mills.

[Obstructed_View]

Baynes is not a competent experienced player...

If you intend the implication that Blair and Bonner are both "competent, experienced players", then Baynes has shown that he's competent. How does he get experience sitting behind the bench in a suit? This is the same bullshit you said about Splitter too.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

That's only the ones that went in. Robinson missed at least two that were wide open. It was shocking how many open threes the Bulls guards got on Mills.

His Sagging was kobe level bads.

[Obstructed_View]

Nando's biggest problem is time. CJ has 2 years on him, where they focused nearly exclusively on his game. Nando raw is better than CJ's raw, but Nando needs one more summer. Honestly, Austin would be a good place to get a jump start, but injuries have definitely put pressure on keeping a bigger roster. His shot has definitely improved since the beginning of the season, but a summer with Chip is mostly needed. That and working out with their strength coach chad forcier

Do people just not know that Joseph was a McDonald's All American coming out of high school? The only reason talking heads criticized Joseph in the draft was because he came out too early and they said he wasn't "NBA ready". There wasn't anyone who didn't think he had NBA talent. Many of them said that he could be a good player for a team that picked him and took the time to develop him. Who does that sound like to you?

This is going to sound more critical than I intend it to, but Nando's 4 years older and has played pro basketball for several years. He's had exactly the same number of training camps as Joseph has with the Spurs. CJ played in Summer League while Nando was playing in the Olympics. Nando said he didn't come here to play in the D League, and Joseph has gone and played his ass off every time he's assigned. So far, Joseph's the better shooter, better defender, better rebounder, and has been less prone to turning the ball over.

[Obstructed_View]

His Sagging was kobe level bads.
I called it "Finleyesque" in another thread. :lol

[Floyd Pacquiao]

I called it "Finleyesque" in another thread. :lol
:lol

[BlackSilver]

Welcome back Swarming Defense. That 4th quarter was a beautiful sight with folks going all Edward Scissorhands on the Bulls. Bowen-esque tbh.

[Pasta Batman]

Do people just not know that Joseph was a McDonald's All American coming out of high school? The only reason talking heads criticized Joseph in the draft was because he came out too early and they said he wasn't "NBA ready". There wasn't anyone who didn't think he had NBA talent. Many of them said that he could be a good player for a team that picked him and took the time to develop him. Who does that sound like to you?

This is going to sound more critical than I intend it to, but Nando's 4 years older and has played pro basketball for several years. He's had exactly the same number of training camps as Joseph has with the Spurs. CJ played in Summer League while Nando was playing in the Olympics. Nando said he didn't come here to play in the D League, and Joseph has gone and played his ass off every time he's assigned. So far, Joseph's the better shooter, better defender, better rebounder, and has been less prone to turning the ball over.

You can be raw but have talent. There are all americans who don't make it into the NBA. CJ had one year of college ball to help refine his skills. The NBA and best foreign leagues are on another level though. I'm not saying that CJ was crap. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been drafted by the Spurs, but there is a reason why no one really expected him to get taken in the first round.

Nando has years on him, but he's played overseas. In some ways it gives advantages (solid competition), but his background is all overseas. It takes time to adapt. See Tiago Splitter for that. He was hampered by injures a lot and the lockout didn't help anyone, but it still takes time. Spurs system ain't that easy too.

There are a lot of things going against the Spurs players. There's a good reason why Spurs pick up smart players. They adapt quickest. As far as Nando, saying "i didn't come here to play in D-League", he sort of is right. It's actually a step back on competition compared to overseas. The big advantage, if he did play there would be coaching staff working with him closely. That's about the only thing. I'm sure he'd be fine with going if they asked him too. I doubt the Spurs are scared to send him, but health has been up and down. I'm more than sure he'll be busting his butt during the summer.

CJ should have the NBA/system advantage because he's lived and breathed it longer. But then both are slightly different players too. Spurs can use both of them for the future.

[playblair]

Do people just not know that Joseph was a McDonald's All American coming out of high school? The only reason talking heads criticized Joseph in the draft was because he came out too early and they said he wasn't "NBA ready". There wasn't anyone who didn't think he had NBA talent. Many of them said that he could be a good player for a team that picked him and took the time to develop him. Who does that sound like to you?

This is going to sound more critical than I intend it to, but Nando's 4 years older and has played pro basketball for several years. He's had exactly the same number of training camps as Joseph has with the Spurs. CJ played in Summer League while Nando was playing in the Olympics. Nando said he didn't come here to play in the D League, and Joseph has gone and played his ass off every time he's assigned. So far, Joseph's the better shooter, better defender, better rebounder, and has been less prone to turning the ball over.

word....................... cojo = avery bradley defense .....................

[Obstructed_View]

You can be raw but have talent. There are all americans who don't make it into the NBA. CJ had one year of college ball to help refine his skills. The NBA and best foreign leagues are on another level though. I'm not saying that CJ was crap. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been drafted by the Spurs, but there is a reason why no one really expected him to get taken in the first round.
Yeah, the reason was his age. I'm not quite sure how what you're saying above dovetails with "Nando's raw is better than CJ's raw".


Nando has years on him, but he's played overseas. In some ways it gives advantages (solid competition), but his background is all overseas. It takes time to adapt. See Tiago Splitter for that. He was hampered by injures a lot and the lockout didn't help anyone, but it still takes time. Spurs system ain't that easy too.

Splitter didn't play because Pop thought he was Duncan's backup. Pop has rectified that mistake, but a mistake is still what it was. If the competition of Euroleague is such a step up from D-League and college, AND Nando is has more raw talent and ability, I'm unsure why we're even having this conversation.

Joseph has had one summer league more than Nando, yet he's progressed to the point where he's moved above Nando in the rotation.

[EricB]

Just a player coming into the game makes the other team go on a run!

magic!!!

[EricB]

If you intend the implication that Blair and Bonner are both "competent, experienced players", then Baynes has shown that he's competent. How does he get experience sitting behind the bench in a suit? This is the same bullshit you said about Splitter too.


Bonner isn't competent and experienced? Amazing.

[Hoops Czar]

word....................... cojo = avery bradley defense .....................


I don't know how anyone can make that assumption based on two games. Right now, I'd take Bradley 10/10 times over CoJo.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner isn't competent and experienced? Amazing.

If Baynes isn't a competent NBA big, then there's no fucking way Bonner is, and there's a LOT of experience to back that up.

Still waiting for you to explain how a guy gets experience without playing time, btw. Go.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know how anyone can make that assumption based on two games. Right now, I'd take Bradley 10/10 times over CoJo.

Consider the source, HC. Take my advice: Ignore list.

[Chinook]

Danny Green B
The Bulls are great at defending the three-point line, which limited his impact. But, nevertheless, he found ways to chip in. He took quality shots, didn’t force things and limited his mistakes on both ends.

I actually was happier to see Green score all seven of his points in a burst than I would have been to see him score 10 points sporadically. It showed Chicago's defense that you have to guard Green at all times. There's no taking him out in the first quarter and being able to leave him once he is unable to establish rhythm. We saw in this game and in the first Nets game how much Green can help the offense if he forces his man to stick to him the entire time. I also thought Green's points came at a very important time, as they brought the Spurs back at the end of the first half. I actually thought he deserved more minutes, as his plus-minus was significantly higher than anyone else's on the team outside of Joseph until the final run. But it's hard to do that with Ginobili having the game he did.

I also loved Leonard's ability to create some more shots. I'd like to see some creative PnR players with Leonard being both the ball-handler and the roll man.

[TD 21]

We should have Tim or Tiago out there at all times, its that simple. I mean if they're playing together, its great. If Tiago is paired with Boris, thats fine. If Tim is paired with Boris, I'm fine. Same with Blair, Bonner if necessary. But to have turd towers or Diaw with one of them is unacceptable. We need rim protectors. Unless Pop is planning on giving Baynes minutes (not likely this season) we can't afford to rest Tim and Tiago together against playoff teams

I suspect they will in the playoffs. The past few months, I think he's just been trying to get Duncan and Splitter as much playing time together as possible, so that they get used to playing with another center and so the team in general does, because obviously there's less spacing. Also, I think he wants to get Splitter used to playing longer stretches, as opposed to subbing in and out every six-seven minutes.

[spurraider21]

Consider the source, HC. Take my advice: Ignore list.
Unless he's a fan of shitty takes followed by ..................

[Obstructed_View]

I actually was happier to see Green score all seven of his points in a burst than I would have been to see him score 10 points sporadically. It showed Chicago's defense that you have to guard Green at all times. There's no taking him out in the first quarter and being able to leave him once he is unable to establish rhythm. We saw in this game and in the first Nets game how much Green can help the offense if he forces his man to stick to him the entire time. I also thought Green's points came at a very important time, as they brought the Spurs back at the end of the first half. I actually thought he deserved more minutes, as his plus-minus was significantly higher than anyone else's on the team outside of Joseph until the final run. But it's hard to do that with Ginobili having the game he did.

I also loved Leonard's ability to create some more shots. I'd like to see some creative PnR players with Leonard being both the ball-handler and the roll man.

For some reason I thought it was in the second half, but Green scored like seven points in a row when it was critically needed. He didn't do a lot great, but that was big.

[Kidd K]

I agree with the ones saying they felt Green was more impactful than given credit. He's a role player after all, it's not like he's going to be a scoring beast all game long. They have to pick their spots with him and sorta ambush the other team with Green's abilities.

When Green did turn it on and start scoring, the Bulls seemed really surprised by it, as if he wasn't supposed to be a real source of offense. What ended up happening was Green got multiple clean looks when the Spurs really needed it, and converted on most of them.



Nando's biggest problem is time. CJ has 2 years on him, where they focused nearly exclusively on his game. Nando raw is better than CJ's raw, but Nando needs one more summer. Honestly, Austin would be a good place to get a jump start, but injuries have definitely put pressure on keeping a bigger roster. His shot has definitely improved since the beginning of the season, but a summer with Chip is mostly needed. That and working out with their strength coach chad forcier

I could see that being the case. I wouldn't mind seeing Nando sent down to the D league for the rest of the year and a portion of next year until he becomes a more crisp basketbal player. I don't think Nando is entirely worthless, but he plays very raw and loose. Not really what I want out of my backup PG.

I just hope De Colo isn't one of those guys who just stay raw, like Jamal Crawford, JR Smith, etc. He should be in the D league imo. Getting the extra playing time and being given the proper instruction. Being fair though, Joseph already had pretty tight handles last season. He's only really improved his jumpshot and decision making. His PG skills are pretty similar with the exception of his decision making.

[AFBlue]

Bonner was garbage last night...exposed, once again, as useless when a competent defensive team does not allow him to take wide open 3s.

I don't know if Baynes is the answer, but at least he provides defense and rebounding.

[Bruno]

Neal not playing was noteworthy. It could be because of his injuries but it could be Pop moving him out of the rotation.

[racm]

Bonner was garbage last night...exposed, once again, as useless when a competent defensive team does not allow him to take wide open 3s.

I don't know if Baynes is the answer, but at least he provides defense and rebounding.

I'd rather have Blair than Bonner if forced to pick one of them tbh. Blair can rebound and isn't afraid to put the ball in the basket.


Neal not playing was noteworthy. It could be because of his injuries but it could be Pop moving him out of the rotation.

Wasn't he listed as questionable for this game?

[ElNono]

Just a player coming into the game makes the other team go on a run!

magic!!!

What's magical about it? Putting subpar talent vs good talent will normally lead to a run.


Bonner isn't competent and experienced? Amazing.

By NBA standards, his competence is below average, IMO.


BTW, weren't you bitching about Bonner on twitter not that long ago?

[ElNono]

Anyone sort of get the feeling that Pop wanted to rest Diaw for the game, which is why he was out of the rotation in the first half? He looked rusty when he got the call in the second half but after that awkward floater went in he seemed to really get engaged.

I did thought that. And I also thought that after the 1st half, he had to make a choice to play him or lose the game.

[Bruno]

Wasn't he listed as questionable for this game?

He was and he isn't fully healthy but he played some garbage time minutes in the previous game and he was active for that game.

[racm]

He was and he isn't fully healthy but he played some garbage time minutes in the previous game and he was active for that game.

Pop's rotation was tighter in this game than the Pistons game. I guess Pop just goes to the deep bench when it's clear that the opponent won't be making a 4th quarter run.

[maverick1948]

Thats what happens when your team has 1 less player.

Yep makes you throw the damn ball the wrong colored jersey. SMH

[Spur|n|Austin]

Why is it so difficult for some of us fans to accept that the best Coach in the business may just know more about his team than we do?

One day they will open the doors to the church of Pop

[John B]

That was a playoff-like win as the Spurs grinded it in the inside instead of relying heavily on 3's. They reacted very well on Bulls' better perimeter defense. In the past we've lost when teams closed in on our 3's. Bonner and co got neutralzed. Last night was different. Guys were making cuts and Manu was finding them resulting to 9 assist. Not sure but I prefer Manu's inside passing than TP's dishing to outside shots which misses could mean long rebounds and passbreaks. Against athletic teams is dangerous. But I guess we need both. Great win.

[Chinook]

That was a playoff-like win as the Spurs grinded it in the inside instead of relying heavily on 3's. They reacted very well on Bulls' better perimeter defense. In the past we've lost when teams closed in on our 3's. Bonner and co got neutralzed. Last night was different. Guys were making cuts and Manu was finding them resulting to 9 assist. Not sure but I prefer Manu's inside passing than TP's dishing to outside shots which misses could mean long rebounds and passbreaks. Against athletic teams is dangerous. But I guess we need both. Great win.

Outside shooting off Parker's passes is the fundamental aspect of the Spurs' offense. The Spurs have good three-point shooters to offset the lower probability of success of outside shot, and they get back on defense as opposed to going for offensive rebounds to offset the increased risk of fast-breaks. Inside cuts are a nice change of pace, but they don't work without the spacing that comes from the outside game.

But you're right: Both are important. That's why it's great to see Green (and Duncan and Splitter) looking for cutters in the starting lineup, and that's why it would be great to see if Joseph or Mills could develop a strong drive-and-kick game to pair with Ginobili's passing.

[racm]

Outside shooting off Parker's passes is the fundamental aspect of the Spurs' offense. The Spurs have good three-point shooters to offset the lower probability of success of outside shot, and they get back on defense as opposed to going for offensive rebounds to offset the increased risk of fast-breaks. Inside cuts are a nice change of pace, but they don't work without the spacing that comes from the outside game.

But you're right: Both are important. That's why it's great to see Green (and Duncan and Splitter) looking for cutters in the starting lineup, and that's why it would be great to see if Joseph or Mills could develop a strong drive-and-kick game to pair with Ginobili's passing.

Exactly; these things go hand in hand.

Nevertheless the Spurs like high percentage shots more than any team not named the Rockets.

[Obstructed_View]

Neal not playing was noteworthy. It could be because of his injuries but it could be Pop moving him out of the rotation.

That's possible. Either he's going to get absolute rest for to get some of his nagging injuries under control, or Pop is simply preparing for the likelihood that some of his injuries will prevent him from being effective any time this season.

[therealtruth]

Outside shooting off Parker's passes is the fundamental aspect of the Spurs' offense. The Spurs have good three-point shooters to offset the lower probability of success of outside shot, and they get back on defense as opposed to going for offensive rebounds to offset the increased risk of fast-breaks. Inside cuts are a nice change of pace, but they don't work without the spacing that comes from the outside game.

But you're right: Both are important. That's why it's great to see Green (and Duncan and Splitter) looking for cutters in the starting lineup, and that's why it would be great to see if Joseph or Mills could develop a strong drive-and-kick game to pair with Ginobili's passing.

I don't think you can win a championship by just relying on outside shooting. By the WCF and Finals teams are simply not going to leave our shooters open enough to shoot well. They will be forced to create something of the dribble or score in other ways.

[Chinook]

I don't think you can win a championship by just relying on outside shooting. By the WCF and Finals teams are simply not going to leave our shooters open enough to shoot well. They will be forced to create something of the dribble or score in other ways.

You can't stop the roll man, trap the ball-handler AND recover to shooters at the same time. Each player has to make the opponent pay for leaving them open. That's why the lack of shooting in the WCF hurt the Spurs as much as it did. The Spurs WANT teams to commit taking away the outside shooting. That leaves tons of space for Parker and the bigs to do their thing. Ginobili's inside passing wouldn't work without the consistent number of outside shots he takes when he calls his own number.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Neal not playing was noteworthy. It could be because of his injuries but it could be Pop moving him out of the rotation.

I'll take that everyday and twice on Sunday!

[tesseractive]

Splitter didn't play because Pop thought he was Duncan's backup.
To me, it's not at all obvious that the players we bring in would develop just as well under a different team's coaching staff. Given Pop's terrific track record with developing players and improving their skills, you might consider the possibility that the way Pop hands out PT is a key element of his overall approach?

[tesseractive]

You can't stop the roll man, trap the ball-handler AND recover to shooters at the same time. Each player has to make the opponent pay for leaving them open. That's why the lack of shooting in the WCF hurt the Spurs as much as it did. The Spurs WANT teams to commit taking away the outside shooting. That leaves tons of space for Parker and the bigs to do their thing. Ginobili's inside passing wouldn't work without the consistent number of outside shots he takes when he calls his own number.
Actually, it looked to me like the problem in the WCF was that OKC did a good job of covering both the ball handler and the roll man and still being quick enough to recover and contest the outside shots. It wasn't just that we started randomly missing shots in a vacuum, OKC was taking them away.

[Spurs7794]

Actually, it looked to me like the problem in the WCF was that OKC did a good job of covering both the ball handler and the roll man and still being quick enough to recover and contest the outside shots. It wasn't just that we started randomly missing shots in a vacuum, OKC was taking them away.

That's not exactly what happened either though. Only once during game 3,4,5, or 6 did we hit under 10 threes. I still believe that the MAIN reason we lost (other than the attrocious 4th quarter refereeing in game 6) was Pop panicking with the series tied at 2 apiece. He starts Ginobili...Parker in turn panics (he had played poorly in games 3 and 4 but game 5, he was rattled in the first half) and the team falls in a big first half hole and has to keep digging themselves out.

[Brunodf]

Actually, it looked to me like the problem in the WCF was that OKC did a good job of covering both the ball handler and the roll man and still being quick enough to recover and contest the outside shots. It wasn't just that we started randomly missing shots in a vacuum, OKC was taking them away.

Spurs couldn't get stops in the 4th, the offense was fine.

[moisaenz]

The reason we lost WCF was a guy who plays for Houston now.

[John B]

I think the Spurs just fell in love with looking for the open 3s. With TP hurt there is more ball movements and conscious effort to cut instead of sitting in the corner 3 like Jefferson used to do waiting for the ball from TP. Kawhi the other night was cutting and Manu finding him. We need to make Durant work harder on the defensive end. I like TP a lot but it's sweet to see Manu creating offense.

[Obstructed_View]

To me, it's not at all obvious that the players we bring in would develop just as well under a different team's coaching staff. Given Pop's terrific track record with developing players and improving their skills, you might consider the possibility that the way Pop hands out PT is a key element of his overall approach?

When the Spurs were getting their heads handed to them by Memphis in the playoffs, suddenly Splitter was thrown into the rotation. Every bit of evidence suggests that Pop was way slow to pull the trigger on a good player. It's not like Splitter has added so much to his game since he was in Europe. He was better next to Duncan three years ago than anyone else who's been next to Duncan since then, they just didn't get the minutes together.

[tesseractive]

When the Spurs were getting their heads handed to them by Memphis in the playoffs, suddenly Splitter was thrown into the rotation. Every bit of evidence suggests that Pop was way slow to pull the trigger on a good player. It's not like Splitter has added so much to his game since he was in Europe. He was better next to Duncan three years ago than anyone else who's been next to Duncan since then, they just didn't get the minutes together.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that Splitter has magically morphed from talentless to talented. I mean more that Pop seems to place a lot more of a premium on preparation, self-discipline, and not making mental mistakes, and I think a lot of PT for developing players is gauged on things that we don't know to look for since we weren't privy to the practices, film sessions, and so on. This kind of development is even more important for the most talented players, because they're the ones the team needs to be able to count on the most.

Bonner is basically a crappy player. At his best you could call him "limited." But my interpretation is that Pop would rather put Bonner out there than give PT to a more talented player that he doesn't think has earned it, and thereby risk the development of that player's mental discipline.

I could have this thing all wrong of course. And I'm not trying to say that Pop never makes mistakes. But we've seen how he handles young (and new-to-the-NBA) players for a lot of years now, and it doesn't seem like the way he rations playing time is at all arbitrary to me, even if the reasons for it aren't always evident.

[Pasta Batman]

You mean CJ has 1 year on him? This is only CJ's second season.

A season, yes, but coming into the 2nd summer, he already has a leg up. Technically it's 1 year, but that second year for CJ makes sense, while Nando is in that year of coming over. But yes, he's only a junior in college basically.


Yeah, the reason was his age. I'm not quite sure how what you're saying above dovetails with "Nando's raw is better than CJ's raw".

Splitter didn't play because Pop thought he was Duncan's backup. Pop has rectified that mistake, but a mistake is still what it was. If the competition of Euroleague is such a step up from D-League and college, AND Nando is has more raw talent and ability, I'm unsure why we're even having this conversation.

Joseph has had one summer league more than Nando, yet he's progressed to the point where he's moved above Nando in the rotation.

I feel like raw with age isn't as important since it's more their environment and what skill sets they were given to them. It's not like CJ raw vs. Nando raw means much anyway. I just meant to say, that Nando had a better pro level experienced coming onto the Spurs than CJ.

Splitter's skill set has become a lot better. That helps a lot. And then Duncan has become more of a jump shooter. Scola was more of a "didn't want to pay him that much" but Duncan was much more post up big back then, so without some updates to the playing, would have had issues. Splitter is a victim of a lot of things. Injuries, lockout, Duncan's evolving game, Spurs size issues. Diaw has helped also by just allowing them to change things up. So has Jackson as a small ball big.


I agree with the ones saying they felt Green was more impactful than given credit. He's a role player after all, it's not like he's going to be a scoring beast all game long. They have to pick their spots with him and sorta ambush the other team with Green's abilities.

When Green did turn it on and start scoring, the Bulls seemed really surprised by it, as if he wasn't supposed to be a real source of offense. What ended up happening was Green got multiple clean looks when the Spurs really needed it, and converted on most of them.


I could see that being the case. I wouldn't mind seeing Nando sent down to the D league for the rest of the year and a portion of next year until he becomes a more crisp basketbal player. I don't think Nando is entirely worthless, but he plays very raw and loose. Not really what I want out of my backup PG.

I just hope De Colo isn't one of those guys who just stay raw, like Jamal Crawford, JR Smith, etc. He should be in the D league imo. Getting the extra playing time and being given the proper instruction. Being fair though, Joseph already had pretty tight handles last season. He's only really improved his jumpshot and decision making. His PG skills are pretty similar with the exception of his decision making.

Green gets crapped on way more than he should. Have has weaknesses, but he also brings stuff to the team that is very different from most. He's definitely a good thing for the team. As long as he can evolve (like most good vets) to do things without being able to score, he'll get time to play. He's looking more and more like that type of glue guy that every team needs. Him always being involved allows for him to "surprise teams" as you put it with the Bulls, IMO.

Nando this season is situational. Good for pure PG, but got to be careful who else is on the floor. As long as there are a lot of scorers, he'll be fine. Maybe one other passer like Parker or Manu, but Manu really needs to play off ball to make it work, at least this season.

I think the difference between Nando and Crawford, is already apparent. It's the bball IQ. The coaching staff will work with him a lot this summer, if he has a good work ethic. CJ did that last summer and was one of the main guys working out with Chad Forcier along with Kawhi and James Anderson.

I think the work on CJ's other skills make his already good handles better because defenses have to be aware he can burn you in many ways. Earlier, they knew he was in trouble if you were able to focus in on his handles.

[Pasta Batman]

He was and he isn't fully healthy but he played some garbage time minutes in the previous game and he was active for that game.

Pop is using his garbage time to get him real-time practice. I think Pop is also thinking he might not have a fully healthy Neal if it keeps lingering though. They tried playing with him injured this season with mixed results. Although part of that is I think Neal not speaking up.

[Pasta Batman]

When the Spurs were getting their heads handed to them by Memphis in the playoffs, suddenly Splitter was thrown into the rotation. Every bit of evidence suggests that Pop was way slow to pull the trigger on a good player. It's not like Splitter has added so much to his game since he was in Europe. He was better next to Duncan three years ago than anyone else who's been next to Duncan since then, they just didn't get the minutes together.

He was trying something new, but he also knew that the team hadn't had enough chemistry to make it work in big chunks. Splitter was injured twice, both in key periods (training camp) and the rodeo trip (right when he was starting to play good). You could argue that Pop was slow, but you can also see that Splitter missed key times that really hurt the team's ability to work him in and develop to make the system work. Also Duncan was still more of a post up player since he started hard on losing weight a the season after.

The problem is the numbers even showed that the offense went to poo next to Duncan. Thing have improved with both his improvements and Duncan's adapting a KG/LA style of big man shooter.


Spurs couldn't get stops in the 4th, the offense was fine.

And Neal and Hill were guarding big forwards like Battier.

[Kidd K]

A season, yes, but coming into the 2nd summer, he already has a leg up. Technically it's 1 year, but that second year for CJ makes sense, while Nando is in that year of coming over. But yes, he's only a junior in college basically.



I feel like raw with age isn't as important since it's more their environment and what skill sets they were given to them. It's not like CJ raw vs. Nando raw means much anyway. I just meant to say, that Nando had a better pro level experienced coming onto the Spurs than CJ.

Splitter's skill set has become a lot better. That helps a lot. And then Duncan has become more of a jump shooter. Scola was more of a "didn't want to pay him that much" but Duncan was much more post up big back then, so without some updates to the playing, would have had issues. Splitter is a victim of a lot of things. Injuries, lockout, Duncan's evolving game, Spurs size issues. Diaw has helped also by just allowing them to change things up. So has Jackson as a small ball big.



Green gets crapped on way more than he should. Have has weaknesses, but he also brings stuff to the team that is very different from most. He's definitely a good thing for the team. As long as he can evolve (like most good vets) to do things without being able to score, he'll get time to play. He's looking more and more like that type of glue guy that every team needs. Him always being involved allows for him to "surprise teams" as you put it with the Bulls, IMO.

Nando this season is situational. Good for pure PG, but got to be careful who else is on the floor. As long as there are a lot of scorers, he'll be fine. Maybe one other passer like Parker or Manu, but Manu really needs to play off ball to make it work, at least this season.

I think the difference between Nando and Crawford, is already apparent. It's the bball IQ. The coaching staff will work with him a lot this summer, if he has a good work ethic. CJ did that last summer and was one of the main guys working out with Chad Forcier along with Kawhi and James Anderson.

I think the work on CJ's other skills make his already good handles better because defenses have to be aware he can burn you in many ways. Earlier, they knew he was in trouble if you were able to focus in on his handles.

Good post man. I agree with all that. Solid take.

[Obstructed_View]

He was trying something new, but he also knew that the team hadn't had enough chemistry to make it work in big chunks. Splitter was injured twice, both in key periods (training camp) and the rodeo trip (right when he was starting to play good). You could argue that Pop was slow, but you can also see that Splitter missed key times that really hurt the team's ability to work him in and develop to make the system work. Also Duncan was still more of a post up player since he started hard on losing weight a the season after.
Splitter was banged up a few times. There's not any way to suggest, however, that he was worse at his position than DeJuan Blair or Matt Bonner. Splitter is as good as we thought he was when he arrived, and even at his most raw, he was a better basketball player than anyone else at his position, which is center. The debate can go on about what position Tim Duncan really is, but he's won championships and MVPs when he had a center next to him, not a power forward.

We also can't say that injury was the reason he wasn't integrated, because Splitter was NEVER subbed for Blair while the Spurs were scoring lots of points and winning regular-season games. If he was ever in the rotation, he came in for Duncan almost exclusively. He also got a lot of DNP-CDs when he was NOT injured. He'd play 20 minutes, not play for three games, and then play 30 minutes, not play for the next, then get 20 minutes. Anyone who knows Pop knows that's not how he treats players that are actually recovering from injury, particularly something like a groin. When it was looking pretty clear that the Spurs were going to match up with Memphis, the calls for Splitter to get time with Timmy were increased on this board, because most of us knew what was going to happen with Bonner and Blair in the rotation.


The problem is the numbers even showed that the offense went to poo next to Duncan. Thing have improved with both his improvements and Duncan's adapting a KG/LA style of big man shooter.
The numbers looked bad, it's true, but see my point about sub patterns above; there literally were not any two players who played fewer minutes together than Splitter and Duncan, and that was almost from day one. It was such a ridiculously small amount of data that there was no way to draw a real conclusion from it, and their first real minutes together came in the playoffs against a good team with two really good bigs. It was a recipe for disaster from the outset.

Splitter's ability on the pick and roll has not improved dramatically since he arrived with the team. You can find posts from me and others talking about how Duncan, Splitter, Parker and Manu were going to be the best pick and roll team you ever saw, and how disappointed we were with the realization that Pop wanted Splitter to play as Duncan's backup.

The only danger this unit faces going forward is Pop trying to go Nellieball on an inferior team in the playoffs and fucking up the team cohesiveness.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner is basically a crappy player. At his best you could call him "limited." But my interpretation is that Pop would rather put Bonner out there than give PT to a more talented player that he doesn't think has earned it, and thereby risk the development of that player's mental discipline.

Pop started Parker and traded Avery Johnson almost immediately. Manu got into the rotation as soon as his ankle healed. Pop made Kawhi Leonard a starter 11 games into his rookie season despite no training camp, and he basically played shooting guard. Pop made Finley a starter because he sucked coming off the bench, even though nobody earned the spot more than Manu.

[Chomag]

Spurs still playing at a very high level even with some key players out is very nice to see. I know I could probably get flamed for this as it's the not popular opinion around here. However I just cant seem to get it out of my mind that this is just a sense of false security. I still just see a huge disadvantage for playoff type of basketball with them, but maybe they are good enough team to overcome that.

[tesseractive]

Pop started Parker and traded Avery Johnson almost immediately. Manu got into the rotation as soon as his ankle healed. Pop made Kawhi Leonard a starter 11 games into his rookie season despite no training camp, and he basically played shooting guard. Pop made Finley a starter because he sucked coming off the bench, even though nobody earned the spot more than Manu.
All fair points. There have also been plenty of guys who have been given slow starts over the years -- though I'm not sure that any of them have been first round picks other than CoJo. They tend to be guys like Jack (first tour) and Danny Green, or random pickups like Drew Gooden or Glenn Robinson.

I guess I just can't believe that it came down to Pop basically just forgetting he had a first round draft pick on the bench, so I'm casting around for other explanations.

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All fair points. There have also been plenty of guys who have been given slow starts over the years -- though I'm not sure that any of them have been first round picks other than CoJo. They tend to be guys like Jack (first tour) and Danny Green, or random pickups like Drew Gooden or Glenn Robinson.
Good examples. The way I remember them, Jack was competing with Spider Smith for time, and that was a great spot on Pop's part, as Smith had the upper hand in that competition and Pop traded him. Gooden was a good scorer, and an upgrade talent-wise on the front line, but he didn't contribute to wins, and he didn't really pass the ball back. Robinson was physically broken down, and I still believe Pop was just saving his body. Since he turned out to be a pivotal player on a championship team, I'm sticking with that belief.