Spurs Re-Sign Horry

[Kori Ellis]

Horry to stay 3 years: Spurs reach agreement with shot-making veteran
Web Posted: 07/06/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Mike Monroe
Express-News Staff Writer

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA070605.1C.BKNspurs.horry.3e045b83.html


The next big shot Robert Horry makes in an NBA game will be for the Spurs.

Horry, one of the heroes of the Spurs' 2005 NBA championship run, has agreed to the terms in a three-year contract offer from the Spurs.

Free agents can't sign contracts until terms of the new collective bargaining agreement between the NBA and its players' union are finalized. The league has estimated July 22 as the likeliest date.

"As soon as he is allowed to sign the contract, he is going to sign it," Robert Barr, who represented the 13-year veteran in negotiations, said Tuesday.

The Spurs declined comment, citing an NBA rule preventing them from announcing such agreements before players can sign them.

Horry, 34, whose 3-point shot with 5.8 seconds remaining in overtime gave the Spurs a 96-95 Game 5 victory over the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, played last season for the veterans' minimum salary of $1.1million. Financial terms of the new deal aren't known, but it is expected to pay him considerably more.

There is a clause in the third year of the deal that would allow the Spurs to buy out the final year.

The Miami Heat and Dallas Mavericks this past week courted Horry, whose shooting has earned him the nickname "Big Shot Bob." He had played in Los Angeles with Shaquille O'Neal, who made it clear he wanted Miami to make Horry an offer.

"The biggest factor in (Robert's) decision is just that the Spurs are a first-class organization," Barr said. "Robert loves the team. He loves Tim Duncan and all the rest of his teammates, and he loves the way Pop (coach Gregg Popovich) is, and the way Pop coaches and the way Pop has learned to use him."

The 2005-06 season would be Horry's third with the Spurs. He averaged 6.1 points in 75 games this past season and has a career scoring average of 7.5 points per game.

But Horry's real value was most evident in the playoffs. He made big shots in every series, including a 3-pointer in Game 2 of the Spurs' Western Conference Finals victory over the Phoenix Suns that gave the Spurs a one-point lead with 2:31 remaining.

Horry averaged 28.6 minutes in the seven games of the NBA Finals and was on the floor for the crucial minutes of the fourth quarters.

Horry, the all-time leader in NBA Finals 3-pointers made, never has been with a team that failed to make the playoffs. In fact, he never has experienced a loss in the first round of the playoffs.

"Robert believes this (Spurs) team can win more championships," Barr said. "For him, that's what this game is all about."

[timvp]

:elephant

Man, this summer is so much easier that past offseasons.

:smokin

[Timoha]

Well, great news.

Looks like the Spurs have accomplished their number one task for the offseason.

Now, it's time to make sure that Scola comes over here.

[Sense]

Lovely news...


Sad news for all those heat fans...

[picnroll]

Any word if the signing is with Bird's rights or with MLE money?

[constantstate]

great great great news. i thought it would be a 3 year deal too.

[usckk]

Holy crap!!!! Thanks Horry!

[usckk]

I love you Horry!!!!!

[timvp]

This has to guarantee that the Spurs had his Early Bird rights. I doubt the Spurs would use a major portion of their MLE this soon in the summer if that's where the money had to come from.

Now sign Scola to the LLE and bring in someone with the MLE.

[Nikos]

Great news.

[Kori Ellis]

This is very great that they got it done so early. Now whatever they do for the summer (be it look for trades for Rasho or whatever) at least Horry is already here.

[timvp]

great great great news. i thought it would be a 3 year deal too.

Spurs have a team option for the third year. So it's basically a two-year deal.

Much like they had with Danny Ferry. Sounds like they'll use his expiring contract in a trade at around that time.

[usckk]

I feel retarted...What's a LLE?

[constantstate]

This has to guarantee that the Spurs had his Early Bird rights. I doubt the Spurs would use a major portion of their MLE this soon in the summer if that's where the money had to come from.
i dont think they would have signed him this early if they didnt already know what they were going to do with scola... so the fact that this was done so fast is a pretty good sign.

[usckk]

Is it "Lower Level Exception" ? About 1.5 mill?

[timvp]

I feel retarted...What's a LLE?

All you need to know is it's an exception worth about $1.8M.

[TheTruth]

Awesome, step one accomplished.


This has to guarantee that the Spurs had his Early Bird rights. I doubt the Spurs would use a major portion of their MLE this soon in the summer if that's where the money had to come from.

Now sign Scola to the LLE and bring in someone with the MLE.


Who would you go after with the MLE?

[constantstate]

Spurs have a team option for the third year. So it's basically a two-year deal.

Much like they had with Danny Ferry. Sounds like they'll use his expiring contract in a trade at around that time.
i thought it would be a 3 year deal to be able to give him more money. it'll be interesting to see how much too.

[timvp]

Who would you go after with the MLE?

Depends how their roster looks. If they are keeping all the bigs and adding Scola, then I'd look for a small forward. If they are trading one of the bigs or not bringing in Scola, then I would go big.

[mattyc]

Yeaaaaaaaaah! Big Shot Rob!

3 years = 3 more rings?! :lol :elephant

Glad he showed some loyalty too.

[timvp]

i thought it would be a 3 year deal to be able to give him more money. it'll be interesting to see how much too.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the countract is worth the MLE X 2 ... meaning probably a two-year contract worth around $9.5M, with the third year a ~$5.5M team option.

[SequSpur]

Spurs need to resign Devin. Sign a real backup point guard and open camp.

That's all they need. I am no longer convinced that Beno can get it to half court in 8 seconds.

Point Guard is priority number one.

[usckk]

How much do you all think the SPurs have him?

[frebon]

Great news!!

[DesiSpur_21]

Man.. I feel so good now. Great to know this thing didn't take long. It was a matter of time, but still I wasn't sure Horry will be happy with the Spurs' offer.


Go Spurs Go!!!

[usckk]

Spurs need to resign Devin. Sign a real backup point guard and open camp.

That's all they need. I am no longer convinced that Beno can get it to half court in 8 seconds.

Point Guard is priority number one.

Are you kidding me? Beno has been great the entire season, but the Finals. Remember, he's a freaking ROOKIE.

[timvp]

Spurs need to resign Devin. Sign a real backup point guard and open camp.

That's all they need. I am no longer convinced that Beno can get it to half court in 8 seconds.

Point Guard is priority number one.

Re-signing Devin is a must. Getting a third point guard would be a good addition. Beno will be back next season.

:smokin

[SequSpur]

Are you kidding me? Beno has been great the entire season, but the Finals. Remember, he's a freaking ROOKIE.


Without starting an argument, Beno was good in a few games. Beno was terrible in the Finals.

[Kori Ellis]

There is a clause in the third year of the deal that would allow the Spurs to buy out the final year.

To me, this means that the contract is probably - $5M first year, $5.5M second year, $6M third year but third year's only partial guaranteed -- meaning the Spurs can pay him like $2M for the third year and buy out the contract. Bowen has the same $2M buyout for the fourth year of his contract.

[usckk]

How much do yall think it will take to re-sign Brown?

[usckk]

Also, the LLE has nothing to do with the MLE, correct?

[Solid D]

http://www.tvdance.com/50-cent/04a.gif http://www.tvdance.com/50-cent/04a.gif http://www.tvdance.com/50-cent/04a.gif http://www.tvdance.com/50-cent/04a.gif http://www.tvdance.com/50-cent/04a.gif

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout, right there!

[timvp]

To me, this means that the contract is probably - $5M first year, $5.5M second year, $6M third year but third year's only partial guaranteed -- meaning the Spurs can pay him like $2M for the third year and buy out the contract. Bowen has the same $2M buyout for the fourth year of his contract.

Good catch. So basically the Spurs found a way to give him a two-year contract worth around $12M.

Nice.

[SenorSpur]

Excellent news. Unlike this time a year ago, Horry's playoff performance more than justified resigning him. He'll be an important piece for our championship runs over the next 3 years.

F@ck the Mavs and The Heat! Too bad, so sad. They'll be licking our heels again!

[Kori Ellis]

Also, the LLE has nothing to do with the MLE, correct?

They are separate exceptions. The LLE is estimated around $1.6M.

The Spurs don't have to use either exception to sign Devin. They have Devin's EB rights.

[SequSpur]

Its good to see that they are giving him a good deal, he definitely deserves it.

I guess ticket prices will be going up now since they are about 12 mill or so over the cap.

[ZStomp]

Wow...$12 for Horry..that sounds high to me....I was thinking more of a $3 mil per year deal...

[usckk]

They are separate exceptions. The LLE is estimated around $1.6M.

The Spurs don't have to use either exception to sign Devin. They have Devin's EB rights.

So the only thing the Spurs are worried about the Luxury tax?

[constantstate]

To me, this means that the contract is probably - $5M first year, $5.5M second year, $6M third year but third year's only partial guaranteed -- meaning the Spurs can pay him like $2M for the third year and buy out the contract. Bowen has the same $2M buyout for the fourth year of his contract.
that sounds like its right on.

[usckk]

Wow...$12 for Horry..that sounds high to me....I was thinking more of a $3 mil per year deal...

Hey, he earned it...

[timvp]

Wow...$12 for Horry..that sounds high to me....I was thinking more of a $3 mil per year deal...

That's what happens when you win a game in the Finals by yourself. And if a similar contract was good enough for Danny Ferry, then it's good enough for Robert Horry.

[SequSpur]

I just might consider some season tickets now....

hmmmmmm

[constantstate]

So the only thing the Spurs are worried about the Luxury tax?
yes... very much so. if they already have plans for scola thats 10 players under contract. (nazr is up after this year, right?)

[usckk]

Yeah, Nazr is in his last year of his contract.

[Mr. Body]

Wow...$12 for Horry..that sounds high to me....

Considering we wouln't have won the championship without his Game 5 victory, it's more than worth it.

'Sides, we won't be getting any 'Jaren Jackson fall-off' from him. Just more good play.

[TheTruth]

How much do yall think it will take to re-sign Brown?
2 yrs 3 mil

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So the only thing the Spurs are worried about the Luxury tax?

I said this in a thread last week (it got buried) but it bears repeating.

I think with the new luxury tax rules Holt and Co. aren't going to be as anal about staying under it.

For those of you who missed it, the luxury tax is no longer a gift to just teams under the cap - the luxury tax revenue is spread over all the teams in the league. So knowing that we'd basically get any reasonable amount over the cap back in luxury tax revenues (thanks to the likes of NY and Dallas, in particular each being about 30 mil over the cap), I think the Spurs don't mind spending a little more.

(for perspective, using team salaries for the 2004-2005 year and applying the new lux tax rules and a luxury cap of 60 million, the total lux tax revenue would be a hair under 4 million per team)

[constantstate]

Yeah, Nazr is in his last year of his contract.
the front office is pretty amazing, so they probably got some voodoo trick to escape the lux tax too. gimmie a SF and a vet point and im happy "as is".

[Spursdaone]

Wow what a blockbuster move. The spurs wouldn't have won without him. :rolleyes

[constantstate]

Wow what a blockbuster move. The spurs wouldn't have won without him. :rolleyes

this coming from a guy who says:

"kg's team sucks... they're no good, and no good players are around him... kg would average 30pts if he had help from teammates!"

did you see that game winning shot that cassell had to win a game in this year's finals? (i didnt either)

[Xolotl]

I'm just glad he didn't go to the Heat. Wasn't Shaq talking about a restructuring deal to bring him there?

[ChumpDumper]

To me, this means that the contract is probably - $5M first year, $5.5M second year, $6M third year but third year's only partial guaranteed -- meaning the Spurs can pay him like $2M for the third year and buy out the contract. Bowen has the same $2M buyout for the fourth year of his contract.If Horry retires as he said after two years, that last year becomes tradeable a la Ferry as well.

This signing is great news.

[Spursdaone]

I was hoping he could go to Miami so he could lose. :depressed

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's what you get for being a Laker fan in black and silver clothing :lol

[Solid D]

The Core just got more solid for at least 2 more years:

(6) Parker - through 2010-11
(5) Duncan - through 2009-10
(5) Ginobili - through 2009-10
(4) Nesterovic - through 2008-09
(3) Barry - through 2007-08
(2) Bowen - through 2006-07 with team option for 2007-08
(2) Udrih - through 2006-07 with team option for 2007-08
(2) Horry - through 2006-07 with team option for 2007-08

[constantstate]

I was hoping he could go to Miami so he could lose. :depressed
you should have known that wouldnt happen as soon as you heard shaq was thinking about restructuring his contract... the only reason shaq would restructure his contract is to get some of it paid in doughnuts instead of dollars.

[Spursdaone]

you should have known that wouldnt happen as soon as you heard shaq was thinking about restructuring his contract... the only reason shaq would restructure his contract is to get some of it paid in doughnuts instead of dollars.
It is the first time you were somewhat funny. We can both agree though that Shaq is an asshole.

[constantstate]

first time? :wow

[SpursChampsIII]

I didn't think we could win the title without Big Shot Bob next year...he brings sooooo many intangibles. We do need to start grooming someone younger now...Scola is 25 and it just seems like it is now or never to bring him in. I hope we have enough cap to get that done! As far as point guard, that's not a concern...did you see how Manu and Brent looked playing together in the Finals? Beno is a nice complementary player with a nice shot (most of the time). Looking good for a repeat, ladies and gents!

[Kori Ellis]

He (Horry's agent) told KRIV that while Horry considered signing with the Dallas Mavericks, "Robert's love for the Spurs organization, head coach Gregg Popovich and the city of San Antonio was too much for him to walk away from."

:tu

[xcoriate]

sweet sweet news

[shyne]

Yes

[shyne]

more nut grabbing back breakers for at leas a couple of years!

[Horry For 3!]

I fuckin told everyone, Horry would re-sign for 3 more years.

[Horry For 3!]

I put that in every thread about horry that he will re-sign for like 3 more years.

[Spursdaone]

Now you can keep your screen name without hostility.

[Sense]

Now you can keep your screen name without hostility.


You had to say this?

Mister "horry is shaq's bitch"

[Spursdaone]

Why hasn't anyone given SequSpur shit? He is the one that started that rumor that Horry is going to Miami.

[Horry For 3!]

Yeah, that dude is lame. Sayin Horry will leave when i'm the Horry fan and I knew he would re-sign for 3 years.

[Kori Ellis]

Well Sequ didn't exactly start the rumor. He just posted it. It's been in about every newspaper and radio show that Horry considered Miami (and Dallas).

[Sense]

Well Sequ didn't exactly start the rumor. He just posted it. It's been in about every newspaper and radio show that Horry considered Miami (and Dallas).


Besides Sequ is Sequ, he's like T Park but he actually jokes around..

[Spursdaone]

SequSpur made it sound like it was a done deal.

[Mark in Austin]

Not too many people are talking about the new offseason regimen Horry started last summer to be better prepared for a great season/postseason. Horry himself pretty much said it was the reason he was able to perform so much better this season. Anybody know if the Spurs help design it / suggested it, or if it was all Horry's idea?

[leemajors]

and you swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

[timvp]

Not too many people are talking about the new offseason regimen Horry started last summer to be better prepared for a great season/postseason. Horry himself pretty much said it was the reason he was able to perform so much better this season. Anybody know if the Spurs help design it / suggested it, or if it was all Horry's idea?

The Spurs have all of their players on offseason workout regimens. I'm guessing they gave instructions to Horry last summer and he followed through on it. And you're right, that could be a big reason why he had his legs in the playoffs this season.

An overlooked fact about the Spurs is pretty much everyone on their roster is on tip top shape. That was another thing Pop changed when he got to San Antonio. He hired some top of the line trainers and those trainers are directed by Pop to stay on all the players year round about being in shape. Even when Manu or Tony go home in the offseason to their respective countries, the Spurs will send a trainer there to make sure they are working out.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm pretty sure that Danny Ferry designed the diet that the Spurs are all on. So look for the Cavs to get healthier next season :)

[Timoha]

I'm pretty sure that Danny Ferry designed the diet that the Spurs are all on. So look for the Cavs to get healthier next season :)

Does it include Tim's outings to Quiznos and Ihop?
:blah

[Horry For 3!]

That is good that they're are working hard and working out everyday.

[Dr.Phil]

Rob made the right decision for his family and future and that is the most important thing.

[baseline bum]

That's what happens when you win a game in the Finals by yourself.


Man, not just a finals game. The game that pretty much decided the series. Whoever lost that one was looking at two elimination games at best. An overtime game on the road in the Finals knotted at 2-2 is as pressure packed as they get short of an elimination game, and Horry became Michael Jordan for the most important 17:01 of the game. Of course it wasn't the only time he saved our asses. Game 3 against Denver was anyone's game until Rob nailed the two threes back to back. Game 2 against Phoenix Nash had just hit a backbreaker and Horry sends an even worse dagger right back. Game 4 vs Phoenix he almost got us a sweep with that three to bring it to 1. He was lights out versus Memphis last year too. Out of the 6 playoff series he's had in San Antonio he had 4 amazing ones, 1 decent one (Seattle), with his only stinker being last year's Laker series. The only other Spurs who can say that are Tim and Manu.

[grjr]

This has to guarantee that the Spurs had his Early Bird rights. I doubt the Spurs would use a major portion of their MLE this soon in the summer if that's where the money had to come from.

Now sign Scola to the LLE and bring in someone with the MLE.

Big Doggie!! :elephant

[Horry For 3!]

Everyone just remember, Rob's 3 favorite words are....GO SPURS GO. ;)

[Spursdaone]

His other 3 words are where's my check.

[TheTruth]

where's my ring?

[Horry For 3!]

I'm just about to hit my 1,000th post. Awesome. :)

[milkyway21]

aleluyah!!!!!!!!!!!l :elephant

http://www.nba.com/media/finals2005/RhorryLR_360_050623.jpg

now i can get back to :sleep

thanks ROB!

[Horry For 3!]

I'll be wearing that cap and shirt soon.:) Would be awesome if I was holding that trophy too...:elephant

[milkyway21]

The Core just got more solid for at least 2 more years:

(6) Parker - through 2010-11
(5) Duncan - through 2009-10
(5) Ginobili - through 2009-10
(4) Nesterovic - through 2008-09
(3) Barry - through 2007-08
(2) Bowen - through 2006-07 with team option for 2007-08
(2) Udrih - through 2006-07 with team option for 2007-08
(2) Horry - through 2006-07 with team option for 2007-08

:smokin :smokin :smokin

[milkyway21]

I'll be wearing that cap and shirt soon.:) Would be awesome if I was holding that trophy too...:elephantKG was thinking the same thing as you, too!

sorry it's not available on Ebay :lol :lol :lol

[boutons]

Superb news! Finishing his career with Spurs will, and another ring or 3, will associate Robert with Spurs as much if as not more than with the Rockets and Lakers. Let his Spurs performances what people remember him for!

21 pts/4th Quarter/Pivotal Game5 on the Road/20005 Finals has to be one of the most memorable Finals heroics ever.

"Quiznos" actually quite good, healthy food.

"Ihop" I can't figure out why millionaires would eat as such a shitty place. I've tried a couple, just a horrible menu. The one on Loop410/Nacogdoches is ratty and filthy.

[Timoha]

I agree that Ihop menu is pretty horrible and hte food is really bad.

As for Quiznos, well, I used to work there, which made me never want to eat there :lol

I'm glad to hear that all the Spurs have a workout summer program to make sure that they are in top shape at the beginning of the year. I wonder how many other teams do that .

[Mr Dio]

KG was thinking the same thing as you, too!

You Spursies fans are so smug huh?
Well, since I'm not some 13yo punk in the closet I'll let you know that 1 Olympic gold is better than 28 NBA Championship rings!
Just because I have the queer screen names of Wolf Sack Licker & Laker Cock doesn't mean I'm the same person.
You will see..KG will play til he's 45 & win another Olympic Gold thus solidifying his place as the greatest player of all time (that NEVER won an NBA Finals ring).
But KG is a better golfer than Soft TD man! He has a lowering handicap & is a better fisher man..KG is quite the Master Baiter!!!
I hate you Spursies fans!!!!!

[beirmeistr]

Besides all the exultation of having BSR back as a Spur for a few more years, this news also eliminates the possibility of him killing the Spurs in the playoffs if he had signed with Dallas or Miami.

[whottt]

Good job Spurs...regardless of who else we sign...the core from this years tough minded championship team is locked into place for at least a 2 year run.

[whottt]

And now I can laugh at something...

During the post finals Pop show a caller asked Pop if the Spurs would be resigning Horry...and pointed out how important Horry was in game 5 and in the playoffs...

Pop's response: We noticed him....


It was just funny...

Also I don't think Holt is going to be that worried about the luxury tax...Don't forget the Spurs can still waive a big contract...I imagine they would do that before going with an illfitting bench that hurts their title chances.

[TheTruth]

I don't see anyone that the FO would think about cutting?

[whottt]

If they are truly worried about the luxury tax they'll cut Rasho. In a second.

[TheTruth]

If the Spurs were really worried about the luxury tax they wouldn't have signed Horry to the contract they just did, and they won't sign Scola.

They'll trade Rasho for cap relief before they cut him.

[whottt]

They'll cut Rasho before they take a luxury tax hit for him.

[Ginobili_20_gold_medalist]

There shouldn't have been any doubt. If you're playing on a team with no drama or selfishness, still getting your minutes, and winning titles then of course that's hard to leave. He already knew he was getting a pay raise.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd have to see the details of the CBA clause, but I don't think this amnesty applies to teams that aren't over the tax threshold now.

[DesiSpur_21]

May be it's out of the context of the thread - How'bt this one?

Cut Rasho
Pick Finley (sure he'll be cut)
Sign Scola..

???

[whottt]

I'd have to see the details of the CBA clause, but I don't think this amnesty applies to teams that aren't over the tax threshold now.


You also need to find out what the threshold is...because the Spurs IMO are on it or over it after signing Horry...I don't know the PCT's but it's usually about 10 million above the cap right?

And they are looking into using the MLE to add additional players...The way I look at it is the Spurs are charging towards a 10 million tax hit next summer...

The same organization that was quibbling with Pakrer over 2 million dollars...

So either they know they can waive a player to get under the threshold...or else they know the tax isn't going to be triggered...I don't know how they could know if the tax will be triggered yet...

And remember...they can't do the waiving thing next summer.

[ChumpDumper]

You also need to find out what the threshold is...because the Spurs IMO are on it or over it after signing Horry...I don't know the PCT's but it's usually about 10 million above the cap right?The threshold is based on actual revenues and salaries from the previous season, so the Horry signing counts against the tax threshold next summer. The Spurs are nowhere near the tax threshold for this summer (2004-05 payroll).

[exstatic]

Spurs need to resign Devin. Sign a real backup point guard and open camp.

That's all they need. I am no longer convinced that Beno can get it to half court in 8 seconds.

Point Guard is priority number one.

Yeah, like we should listen to YOU, this thread as case in point.
:fro

[ChumpDumper]

Concerning the "waive Rasho" scenario, if it is possible to waive him the Spurs still have to pay him. You can say the Spurs won't pay any luxury tax, but are they really going to pay Rasho $30 million to not play for them? Is that any better?

[DesiSpur_21]

Concerning the "waive Rasho" scenario, if it is possible to waive him the Spurs still have to pay him. You can say the Spurs won't pay any luxury tax, but are they really going to pay Rasho $30 million to not play for them? Is that any better?

If the luxury tax for next 4-5 years is expected to fall in the range of 30 mil (which is possible with our top 3 contracts running thru 2010)? You'd save on tax + if u can stay below cap sign a quality vet.??

[whottt]

The threshold is based on actual revenues and salaries from the previous season, so the Horry signing counts against the tax threshold next summer. The Spurs are nowhere near the tax threshold for this summer (2004-05 payroll).

No shit...I know we're not over the tax threshold this summer...

My point is that Holt isn't going to paint himself into a corner for it next summer by signing contract he can't dump this summer...Remember how tight he got with Tony?

[ChumpDumper]

Waiving Rasho and paying him his full amount is basically equal to being $4 million over the tax threshold every year if the rest of his contract without having a player to show for it.

We can only make estimates of what the tax threshold will be next season when the cap projection is made around the 22nd. Trying to plot it out over the next four seasons is practically impossible.

[ChumpDumper]

My point is that Holt isn't going to paint himself into a corner for it next summer by signing contract he can't dump this summer...Remember how tight he got with Tony?So he's going to pay Rasho $8 million a year to not play for him?

What does that save him?

[whottt]

Concerning the "waive Rasho" scenario, if it is possible to waive him the Spurs still have to pay him. You can say the Spurs won't pay any luxury tax, but are they really going to pay Rasho $30 million to not play for them? Is that any better?

Um...Holt was almost willing to lose Tony Parker last season over 2 million dollars...

How quickly you forget.

Trading Malik made him less antsy...but that won't last long if the Spurs are giving out MLE equivalent deals to Horry and looking to spend their MLE, or more, on FA's...

[DesiSpur_21]

Waiving Rasho and paying him his full amount is basically equal to being $4 million over the tax threshold every year if the rest of his contract without having a player to show for it.

We can only make estimates of what the tax threshold will be next season when the cap projection is made around the 22nd. Trying to plot it out over the next four seasons is practically impossible.
:tu

Got it!!

[ChumpDumper]

Is that any better?Answer the question.

[whottt]

Answer the question.

It's a stupid question...he has a choice of paying him 8 million to not play him , or pay him 8 million to play for him, while paying possibly that much in tax each year for the next 2 years...all for a guy who dindn't even make it off the bench in the playoffs.

You can't be that fucking stupid,...oh wait...I forget who I am arguing with...

16>8

[ChumpDumper]

he has a choice of paying him 8 million to not play him, or pay him 8 million to play for him, while paying possibly that much in tax each year for the next 2 yearsWhy would he be exactly Rasho's salary over the tax threshold every year?

What if it's just a couple of million?

Four million? It's actually cheaper to keep Rasho if you are even half his salary over the luxury tax threshold. I know you aren't smart enough to understand why, so just accept its being true.

[strangeweather]

It's a stupid question...he has a choice of paying him 8 million to not play him , or pay him 8 million to play for him, while paying possibly that much in tax each year for the next 2 years...all for a guy who dindn't even make it off the bench in the playoffs.

Umm, why are those the only two choices? Wouldn't it be drastically cheaper to trade him for an expiring contract if we were desperate to dump him? It's not like there aren't teams that would have a use for him.

[whottt]

Why would he be exactly Rasho's salary over the tax threshold every year?

He wouldn't be necessarily...but you are talking about a man who was gripping over 2 million dollars to our starting PG last offseason.




What if it's just a couple of million?

You mean like the 2 million he squabbled with Parker over last summmer?


Four million? It's actually cheaper to keep Rasho if you are even half his salary over the luxury tax threshold. I know you aren't smart enough to understand why, so just accept its being true.

Yeah? and what if you aren't? Holt and the Spurs are not going to hamstring themselves over Tony Parker...you think they are going to do it for Rasho?

[ChumpDumper]

You mean like the 2 million he was squabbled with Parker over last summmer?No, I mean $2 million over the tax threshold for one season. Would there be any savings in that scenario?

No.

You're welcome.
and what if you aren't?Prove it.

[whottt]

No, I mean $2 million over the tax threshold for one season. Would there be any savings in that scenario?

"IF" can work a lot of different ways...unfortunately for you...it doesn't jive with the tendencies that Holt has shown...You are no longer working on fact...you are using a best case scenario to make your point...While the CEO of the Spurs has been shown to look at things in a worst case scenario.





You're welcome.

And you're stupid and full of shit...and we both know it.

[whottt]

Prove it.


You prove it..."if"...

I can prove Holt was willing to lose a young starting potential super star player that plays the first or second most difficult position in the NBA to learn, last season, over 2 million dollars...

Now you prove he is willing to pay a tax of as much as 8 million for a guy that didn't even get off the bench in the playoffs...

[ChumpDumper]

you are using a best case scenario to make your point.Actually I'm not, I'm showing how waiveing Rasho doesn't mean instant savings at all depending on the Spurs level of spending. I said you wouldn't get it and you didn't disappoint.
And you're stupid and full of shit.Hey, don't get all pissy because you don't know what you're talking about. Just shut up and let the grownups discuss this.

[whottt]

Actually I'm not, I'm showing how waiveing Rasho doesn't mean instant savings at all depending on the Spurs level of spending.
I never said it did...You OTOH are now making claims that Holt is willing to pay the lux tax for a guy that didn't get off the bench in the playoffs...

I want to you back that up. All I am asking for is some kind of past inclination that he will do so if he has a choice...that he will do so in the name of winning.



I said you wouldn't get it and you didn't disappoint.Hey, don't get all pissy because you don't know what you're talking about.

You and your little vague comments...you fool no one. I looking forward to owing you often in what was formerly my weakest area of knowledge...

[ChumpDumper]

Now you prove he is willing to pay a tax of as much as 8 million for a guy that didn't even get off the bench in the playoffs.Again, I said there is no savings if we're talking about a tax up to even $4 million, and all you could do was throw a hissy fit.

[ChumpDumper]

You OTOH are now making claims that Holt is willing to pay the lux tax for a guy that didn't get off the bench in the playoffs.He would pay tax if he concluded that amount would be less than the $30 million he would pay Rasho for not playing over the length of his contract.

[Marcus Bryant]

The terms of the new CBA are known now, but not back then. That seemed to be one reason why Holt Cat was pitching a fit about that extension last summer.

[Marcus Bryant]

The San Antonio Spurs are not going to pay $30 million to make Rasho go away.

[ChumpDumper]

If Holt views any tax payment as wasted money, how could he view paying Rasho $30 million to not play for him as something to be desired?

Where's the savings?

[whottt]

Again, I said if


I know you did...that's all you've been saying.

[whottt]

If

[ChumpDumper]

that's all you've been saying.All you've said is Holt will waive Rasho this summer if he thinks he will ever pay any luxury tax in any of the next four years.

How is that any different?

I presented scenarios in which waiving would cost more than a tax, and all you can do is whine because you don't really understand. I can't help you with that.

[whottt]

All you've said is Holt will waive Rasho this summer if he thinks he will ever pay any luxury tax in any of the next four years.

How is that any different?

False...I said if the Spurs are truly worried about the luxury tax they'll waive Rasho in a heartbeat...

This is working under the assumption that the one time loophole applies to them...

Holt is going to err on being under the threshold rather than over it slightly...his past inclinations prove this...



I presented scenarios in which waiving would cost more than a tax, and all you can do is whine because you don't really understand. I can't help you with that.

I understand...you're just splitting hairs like you always do when you are getting owned.

All I want is some kind of evidence, based on past tendencies, that in someway backs up your point that Holt is willing to gamble on taking a luxury tax hit, for Rasho...

And it's not just about being slightly over the threshold either...that slightly over the threshold also could prevent the Spurs from being willing to use their MLE to make a needed upgrade for a title run...


I just want you to show me something in the past that gives the slightest indication the Spurs are going to have the laissez-faire attitude about their cap situation and tax threshold position, that you seem to think they will have...Being one with the sac does you no good here.



That's all I am asking for....just show me something from the past...

Otherwise...this is just a typical Chump ass pull, for the sake of a ridiculous argument...that as usual, fools no one but yourself.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn whott, rest.

I already laid it out earlier in the thread how the Spurs could handle the luxury tax. Seeings you missed it...



For those of you who missed it, the luxury tax is no longer a gift to just teams under the cap - the luxury tax revenue is spread over all the teams in the league. So knowing that we'd basically get any reasonable amount over the cap back in luxury tax revenues (thanks to the likes of NY and Dallas, in particular each being about 30 mil over the cap), I think the Spurs don't mind spending a little more.

(for perspective, using team salaries for the 2004-2005 year and applying the new lux tax rules and a luxury cap of 60 million, the total lux tax revenue would be a hair under 4 million per team)

[bigzak25]

that's very sweet. thanks Rob. :smokin


i really want scola here man. our Spurs need to see what he can do in the nba before making longterm decisions regarding rasho (trade) and nazr (re-sign).

dev is gravy and agreed that some height on D at the SF position would be the icing on the cake.

backup pg is not a factor. beno's continued development and better ball handling (hopefully) with barry and manu available if needed, are more than enough. Now if a good one comes available for cheap, go for it, but it's not a priority imo.

this is a nice easy offseason so far...i love it.

[batman2883]

I agree the Spurs need to make Scola the next priority, we dont need a back up point guard. Sure Beno seemed to have choked in the finals, but what did our little friend Tony Parker do his rookie year in the playoffs???? He disappeared as well, and Speedy Claxton had to bail him out. Beno will improve his play this year, and with Scola on his second squad man i dont even want to think about it, I just want to see it happen, Scola, Beno, Brown, Barry, and Horry or Rasho, man that second team is going to go down in history as the best back up squad ever.

[whottt]

Damn whott, rest.

I already laid it out earlier in the thread how the Spurs could handle the luxury tax. Seeings you missed it...


I was never arguing about how the Spurs could handle it...

I was arguing what their likely course of action would be if they were worried about it...

[batman2883]

Damn that picture of Romain Sato looks like Earl Boykins, or that dude that came out on Cool Runnings, lol the one that says, "I see strength, i see power, i see a bad ass muda, who dont take crap from no one"

[TwoHandJam]

Horry signed makes me feel 10X better about this offseason already. Now if we can bag Scola, anything else is gravy for me.

:elephant

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, a major potential headache is averted. If they lock up Devin then the rest will be gravy.

[SpursChampsIII]

You Spursies fans are so smug huh?
Well, since I'm not some 13yo punk in the closet I'll let you know that 1 Olympic gold is better than 28 NBA Championship rings!
Just because I have the queer screen names of Wolf Sack Licker & Laker Cock doesn't mean I'm the same person.
You will see..KG will play til he's 45 & win another Olympic Gold thus solidifying his place as the greatest player of all time (that NEVER won an NBA Finals ring).
But KG is a better golfer than Soft TD man! He has a lowering handicap & is a better fisher man..KG is quite the Master Baiter!!!
I hate you Spursies fans!!!!!

You're showing your basketball ignorance with this post. Do you really think KG's career will be defined by how many gold medals he wins as opposed to how many NBA championships he would win? I think you are a 13yo punk in the closet, a bastard child perhaps.

[Momma_monkey]

Aaawwwwweessssommmmeeee !spurs Are Smart Keep The Team Together And Improve Like Fine Wine.

[ChumpDumper]

Holt is going to err on being under the threshold rather than over it slightly...his past inclinations prove this.Spurs have been slightly over the threshold in the past, and paid tax, but the funds they recieved were larger than the amount they paid.

AHF showed -- as I have in another thread -- how that is possible once again, even if the Spurs go a few million over the threshold.

In addition, I put forward scenarios where a few million in tax paid would still be much less than the amount that would have to be paid to Rasho to not play. Wasted money is wasted money -- wasting $30 million to keep from wasting $4 million is something only you could advocate.

[spurschick]

What great news to wake up to! :elephant

[SpursFanInAustin]

This has been an easy offseason thus far. Remember all those past offseasons when we needed to worry about re-signing Duncan, Robinson, Ginobili, Parker, Bowen, Malik, Jackson, Claxton, DA? Having to re-sign your 6th man was huge, but now re-signing the 10th man, and bringing over a talented player overseas? Like everyone said, it's gravy.

[nkdlunch]

Looks like Big Shot Rob is going for a record 10 championships!! :smokin

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs lock up Devin, then their concerns will be centered on who the 11th and 12th men will be (or who the 4th or 5th big and token backup small forward will be).

Oh wait, 'extending Nazr or not' is going to be a major issue.

[Manu20]

Horry made the right choice.

[SpursFanInAustin]

If the Spurs lock up Devin, then their concerns will be centered on who the 11th and 12th men will be (or who the 4th or 5th big and token backup small forward will be).

Oh wait, 'extending Nazr or not' is going to be a major issue.

From the looks of it now, extending Nazr looks to be impossible, unless we move Rasho in the season. Like timvp said in another thread, Nazr could be looking at a Dampier-like contract in free agency 2006.

[EasilyAmused]

Yay! Great News!! :elephant

[Marcus Bryant]

Which is why you extend him now. If you put enough guaranteed money on the table, that's pretty persuasive. A lot can happen in a year to a player.

[Dex]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

I effing told you all so.

Yeah, I said it.


It's OK, I'll just enjoy being right when he comes back next season.

:elephant

Now people will have to find some OTHER foregone conclusion to sit and bitch about. :lol

[Dex]

Oh, and somebody check the shower rod for spursdaone.

:lmao

[wildbill2u]

:elephant

Man, this summer is so much easier that past offseasons.

:smokin

Everyone wants to play with a winner--especially one that can win again. :elephant

I'd like to see us explore the deep FA market with that in mind--and forget Scola for the coming year. We can have him for nothing after next year.

[Jimcs50]

I told you.

:smokin

[wildbill2u]

No shit...I know we're not over the tax threshold this summer...

My point is that Holt isn't going to paint himself into a corner for it next summer by signing contract he can't dump this summer...Remember how tight he got with Tony?

One thing we haven't heard about is additional revenues generated by the Championship. I bet the Spurs sold at least 300,000 T-shirts in San Antonio alone in the past weeks. Figure the T-shirts cost as high as $5.00 and you still have 15.00 to split with the NBA and retailers.

My guess is the Spurs made an extra 18-20 million on the T-shirts. Anyone else have better guestimates.

[50 cent]

1.) I knew he would and this is awesome. :smokin

2.) Whottt - I like you but please STFU about this waiving Rasho crap. Holt is not going to just waive Rasho and pay him $30M to not play for the Spurs. He is tradeable for an expiring contract if they really want to get rid of him. But, as mentioned, the new CBA and the luxury tax sharing rules have changed a great deal to where you don't have to be under the threshold to collect penalty money. It is shared based on the percentage you are over the threshold and if the Spurs are over it at all, they would barely be. They would still collect plenty of their share of the tax money thanks to the Portlands, Dallas', and NYs of the NBA.

3.) Nazr is not signed past next year. Rasho is not going anywhere until a.) Nazr is extended, or b.) the Spurs can trade him for another quality big man. Also, Rasho could still potentially start next year and would have started throughout the playoffs had he not injured his ankle. Pop couldn't mix up the rotation once the playoffs started and Nazr was playing sufficiently. I have been impressed with Nazr, but you might remember that he suddenly forgot how to catch any pass thrown his way in the Finals. Let's just relax and let the 2 of them battle it out for the starting spot next year.

4.) Holt has never said he will not go over the luxury tax threshold - just that he wouldn't for players that he didn't think fit or deserved it. The Spurs now have a Championship team and on the verge of a dynasty with almost every single player locked down for the next few years. This has never happened before so there is no precedent for what Holt might do in this situation because we haven't been here before. Having a team that is guaranteed to go far into the Playoffs generates quite a bit of additional revenue for owners and winning Championships goes far beyond that. Holt will be willing to spend a few extra million to keep this thing going.

[MannyIsGod]

The one thing that I haven't seen anyone say in here is that a waived player still counts against the cap and therefore still counts torwards the luxury tax. Unless I have that wrong, even if they waived Rasho, they'd still have to pay the luxury tax on the amount they were over.

Whott, that had to have been one of the dumbest arguements you've ever put forth. Rasho is in the Top 5 of tradeable commidities the Spurs have. He also has a very reasonable contract. It's foolish to think that the best course of action the Spurs would have in mind to avoid a Luxury tax would be to waive him when they could give him away in a trade and save money that way.

Yeah, it's safe to say Rasho being waived is almost a non exisitant possibiilty regardless of luxury tax implications.

[SequSpur]

Yeah, like we should listen to YOU, this thread as case in point.
:fro


Sequshrimp...............

:lol

[ALVAREZ6]

that's awesome.

Horry is a Spur for 3 more years, and with him, we are gonna win at least 2 more titles.


I'm glad they came down to a great decision.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The one thing that I haven't seen anyone say in here is that a waived player still counts against the cap and therefore still counts torwards the luxury tax. Unless I have that wrong, even if they waived Rasho, they'd still have to pay the luxury tax on the amount they were over.

Manny, in the one time waiver thing this summer, the player's salary DOESN'T count against the cap.

(which I think is whott wants to see Holt do, as stupid as it is).

You don't waive a tradeable commodity whott. Think before you speak.

[Marcus Bryant]

The one thing that I haven't seen anyone say in here is that a waived player still counts against the cap and therefore still counts torwards the luxury tax. Unless I have that wrong, even if they waived Rasho, they'd still have to pay the luxury tax on the amount they were over.



I believe that whottt is arguing that the Spurs should waive Radosoft under the 'one time' rule that allows a team to waive one player and avoid paying the luxury tax on the remainder (or a portion thereof) of the player's contract.

[SequSpur]

I believe that whottt is arguing that the Spurs should waive Radosoft under the 'one time' rule that allows a team to waive one player and avoid paying the luxury tax on the remainder (or a portion thereof) of the player's contract.

Now your talking.

[Kori Ellis]

Manny, in the one time waiver thing this summer, the player's salary DOESN'T count against the cap.

Clarify. The player still counts against the salary cap, right? They just don't have to pay luxury tax on the player.

[ChumpDumper]

I believe that whottt is arguing that the Spurs should waive Radosoft under the 'one time' rule that allows a team to waive one player and avoid paying the luxury tax on the remainder (or a portion thereof) of the player's contract.He's not saying they should do it, just that Holt will do it if he thinks there is any chance he might pay any luxury tax in the next four years.

[MannyIsGod]

The one time rule wouldn't apply to the Spurs this summer because they are not over the tax this summer.

[ChumpDumper]

The one time rule wouldn't apply to the Spurs this summer because they are not over the tax this summer.I'm not totally clear on that one, but it would make sense. If a team waives a player now, does he still count this past season's taxes for example? Does the player have to be waived before the 22nd? I need to read more articles, I guess.

[Spursdaone]

D. Marshall would be a much bigger improvement over Horry. Horry doesn't do much.

[50 cent]

Clarify. The player still counts against the salary cap, right? They just don't have to pay luxury tax on the player.
Yes, the player counts against the cap, but not luxury tax. This one time exception does not apply to the Spurs because they are not over the luxury tax threshold this year.

I am 100% confident in saying that NO Spurs player will be waived based on the one-time exception that the Mavs and NY will use.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, under no circumstances does it make sense to waive Rasho. None. They could easily trade a serviceable bigman for less (and expiring) salary which would be favorable to trading.

[whottt]

All you suckholes calling me out need to realize something...

I am not in favor of waiving Rasho. I actually like Rasho.

What I am saying is that if Holt gets worried about the tax...he will waive him rather than pay a tax on him...

Now you can guys can argue this all you want...But just realize that you are basically arguing that Holt has become somewhat a free spender...and not the guy that was interested in getting every last rebate cent he could in prior years.


I distinctly remember Holt saying he wasn't willing to go much more than 300,000 thousand dollars over the threshold last season, because he didn't think it's a good way to run a business, this for Tony Parker, the future of the franchise...Keep in mind he could have gone several million over the cap and still gotten a huge rebate..


The bottom line is that Holt is a penny pincher...he wants as much back as he can get...and Rasho sitting the bench and doing nothing is not going to sit well with him...

I am pretty sure that the only reason he ponied up the extra 2 million for last season was because Pop promised to move Malik.


He's not going over that tax threshold by much....especially for a guy who sat the bench as we won a title...he's not going to like not having any flexibility to add additional players...

And IMO, the new cap rules will make him more tight, since he's going to be getting less back in rebates...he's going to want to pay even less in tax IMO.

[CalsonicKansei]

That is great his ditched shaq and miami. I hope Wade turns out to be like Kobe so shaq can go insane in the membrane.

[Dex]

...when he's right, he's right.

And this one doesn't even have anything to do with Brent Barry.

Whottt the fuck is goin on here? :lol

[Kori Ellis]

Rasho didn't do shit all year

It's called DEFENSE.

[Marcus Bryant]

I haven't looked at the budget projections recently but I can't imagine that the Spurs are in that much danger of being far over the lux tax threshold.

[pache100]

It's called DEFENSE.

True. I heard, right out of Pop's mouth, over and over again before Rasho got hurt this year..."Rasho is doing exactly what we need him to do".

I think people forget that players have different roles depending on which team they are playing. That is why their stats vary wildly from team to team. We don't always need this guy to score 30 points or that guy to make 15 rebounds against a certain team; we may need those individual players to do something different against said team. As long as they are doing what POP wants them to do, you will see them play game after game; when they fall off on HIS expectations, you will see them sit more (just ask Tony). Isn't that, after all, what they pay the man (Pop) for?

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt, so what you're saying, is that Holt Cat is just plain stupid? That if he wanted to save money, he'd take a really stupid route torwards saving some? While other routes were available that could save him more money?

Ohhhhhhhhhhkay.

[whottt]

They aren't but that's besides the point I was making....

The point I was making was on our own beloved Holt...and how quickly we have forgotten that he is a penny pincher in the truest sense of the word...

For a guy that's got an organization as well run and efficient as the Spurs...this guy is a tightwad.....IIRC his nixing negotiations with Parker last season..was his decision, and not the decision of the board.

This was guy wants as much rebate as he can get...and every dollar in tax that he pays is a dollar he will be taking out of his own pocket...

I know he said last he wasn't willing to go more than a few hundred thousand dollars over the threshold...he could have gone a couple of million over it and still recieved a nice rebate...

[whottt]

Whottt, so what you're saying, is that Holt Cat is just plain stupid? That if he wanted to save money, he'd take a really stupid route torwards saving some? While other routes were available that could save him more money?

Ohhhhhhhhhhkay.

Like what...name those other routes...

Name them.

Chump said he wasn't going to want to pay Rasho 8 million to do nothing...well what did he do when we just won a title...you think Holt feels he got his moneys worth?

being 4 million over the tax is 4 million he will have to pay...that hasn't changed...his rebate will be even smaller now regardless of what he does...so the only way he will save is by paying less on the tax.

[50 cent]

All you suckholes calling me out need to realize something...

I am not in favor of waiving Rasho. I actually like Rasho.

What I am saying is that if Holt gets worried about the tax...he will waive him rather than pay a tax on him...

Now you can guys can argue this all you want...But just realize that you are basically arguing that Holt has become somewhat a free spender...and not the guy that was interested in getting every last rebate cent he could in prior years.


Okay, so Holt is going to say, "Here is a $30M check Rasho...take a hike because I don't want to pay an additional $6 million in luxury tax money over the next 4 years because of your contract. I would rather you just take this $30M and go find another team to play for. Of course, we probably could have traded you to about 60% of the teams in the league for an expiring contract or picks, but we didn't want to mess with it, so just take this $30M and go away." :drunk :smokin :drunk

You cannot possibly be that ignorant.

[MannyIsGod]

Trading Rasho for an expering contract. That is a much better route. And thats all the more easier with the 125% clause in the new CBA.

Rasho is a very very tradeable asset. There would be no problems getting back an expiring deal.

[freako806]

I so glad :tu

[50 cent]

I know he said last he wasn't willing to go more than a few hundred thousand dollars over the threshold...he could have gone a couple of million over it and still recieved a nice rebate...
Nope. Wrong again. You're getting close to setting the record for most incorrect statements in 1 thread.

If you were over the luxury tax threshold last year (old CBA), you got NO rebate (only teams under the threshold got a rebate). This year (new CBA), all the luxury tax money goes into a big pot and is split by all the teams.

[pache100]

Yeah, Pop is saying all this great stuff about Rasho but look who the starter is NAZR, and look who the Spurs want to get rid off RASHO

Nazr was NOT the starter until Rasho got hurt. The same thing happened last year to Manu (remember Hedo? look where he is now). At the point that Rasho was able to come back full strength, we were too far into the playoffs to make the switch (and why would we, as well as Nazr had been playing up to that point. You are the one who keeps harping that "Spurs want to get rid of Rasho". I'm not saying it won't turn out to be true, I'm just saying I have not heard the Spurs SAY that and nothing has happened yet.

[whottt]

Nope. Wrong again. You're getting close to setting the record for most incorrect statements in 1 thread.

If you were over the luxury tax threshold last year (old CBA), you got NO rebate (only teams under the threshold got a rebate). This year (new CBA), all the luxury tax money goes into a big pot and is split by all the teams.


Um, no, you are wrong. Don't even fuck with me on this shit anymore...I been reading up on this bitch because I got tired of Chump's smug ass attitude on the one subject he/she/it had an advantage on.

There was a tax threshold, which caused you to have to pay the tax, and a higher figure called a cliff..being over the cliff would have caused you to get no rebate(in some cases)..being over the tax threshold you were still entitled to one at a lesser PCT than a team under the cap....

Secondly...Holt did say he wasn't willing to go over the tax much more than 300,000k.

Link:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5196

Right on both counts...

[ObiwanGinobili]

man that makes me happy!
:elephant :spin :elephant

http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Atlatl/cheesy.jpg

[angel_luv]

What if Rob were one of us?

Oh that's right! He is !

Hallelujah!

[ChumpDumper]

And IMO, the new cap rules will make him more tight, since he's going to be getting less back in rebates...he's going to want to pay even less in tax IMO.But even if a team is well over the threshold, it receives a rebate. Say the total rebate amount turns out to be $90 million (not a prediction BTW). Every team gets back $3 million regardless of their payroll -- so the Spurs can be $3 million over the tax threshold with no net loss. If a waived Rasho was making $8 million that season the Spurs would get the full $3 million rebate share but would have to pay Rasho his full salary.

Is it better to waste $0 or $5 million?

And it looks like we're trying to trade Rasho for SAR and use at least part of the MLE on another player.

Even more payroll.

Who gets waived then -- I mean NOW -- the decision has to be made rather quickly.

[spur219]

Alright well one down now Rasho to go.

[milkyway21]

You Spursies fans are so smug huh?
Well, since I'm not some 13yo punk in the closet I'll let you know that 1 Olympic gold is better than 28 NBA Championship rings!
Just because I have the queer screen names of Wolf Sack Licker & Laker Cock doesn't mean I'm the same person.
You will see..KG will play til he's 45 & win another Olympic Gold thus solidifying his place as the greatest player of all time (that NEVER won an NBA Finals ring).
But KG is a better golfer than Soft TD man! He has a lowering handicap & is a better fisher man..KG is quite the Master Baiter!!!
I hate you Spursies fans!!!!!hey Mr. Dio, calm down :lol :lol


i respect KG's game too!

if he's going to win more Olympic medals and be the GReatest Basketball Player in history, fine.

if he's a better golfer than Soft TD man(who's a better swimmer and surfer), so be it.

just let me do my "smug" thing, pls? it is better than
Rasho showing his ring to KG thing.


:shootme

[whottt]

But even if a team is well over the threshold, it receives a rebate. Say the total rebate amount turns out to be $90 million (not a prediction BTW). Every team gets back $3 million regardless of their payroll -- so the Spurs can be $3 million over the tax threshold with no net loss. If a waived Rasho was making $8 million that season the Spurs would get the full $3 million rebate share but would have to pay Rasho his full salary.

Is it better to waste $0 or $5 million?

He may look at money being paid to Rasho as a waste anyway...that if not waived cuts into his rebate...it's about the rebate with him.



And it looks like we're trying to trade Rasho for SAR and use at least part of the MLE on another player.

Even more payroll.

I never said the Spurs were in that situation now...In fact I said if they were they probably wouldn't be adding payroll and pursuing S&T's like that...

Whether I mentioned it at the time or not...that was why I said what I said it in the first place...if the Spurs were uncomfortable with their cap situation...they would waive Rasho. I don't think they are uncomfortable with their cap situation right now...hence the handing out of contracts, and rumored pursuit of players via S&T...that will possibly make more than the MLE.


Who gets waived then -- I mean NOW -- the decision has to be made rather quickly.


If someone was going to get waived...it'd be Rasho...if the Spurs are uncomfortable with their cap/tax sitiuation...Rasho will get waived(assuming they can use the loophole).

[ChumpDumper]

it's about the rebate with him. A rebate that isn't going to be maybe 1/5 what it used to be? Even if the money he spends on Rasho not to play is greater than the rebate?
He may look at money being paid to Rasho as a waste anyway.If Nazr is gone after next season?
Whether I meantioned it at the time or not...that was why I mentioned it in the first place...if the Spurs were uncomfortable with their cap situation.I merely pointed out there are degrees of discomfort, and that it isn't so terribly black and white.
If was some was going to get waived...it'd be Rasho...if the Spurs are uncomfortable with their cap/tax sitiuation...Rasho will get waived.Wow. A lot of "ifs" there. Why would you get so cheesed about someone else using that word?

[whottt]

If Nazr is gone after next season?
Of course not.




I merely pointed out there are degrees of discomfort,

And Holt's discomfort starts @300K over the tax threshold...his words, not mine. And it's obvious it's the rebate he is most concerned with.


A lot of "ifs" there. Why would you get so cheesed about someone else using that word?

I got cheesed because your if is a best case scenario, that doesn't have much historical backing...My if is based on Holt's own words and actions...

It's just different Chump, it just is...and my "if" is better...because it's based in part of Holt's past actions and words...yours is just based on your ass.

[ChumpDumper]

Of course not.But they could be going over the threshold this coming season -- so they would have to waive Rasho in that case, no matter what the status of Nazr. It's all about the rebate, according to you.
And Holt's discomfort starts are @300K over the tax threshold...his words, not mine.Old CBA, not new.
I got cheesed because your if is a best case scenario, that doesn't have much historical backing.It has all sorts of historical backing. Sorry you can't get it.
It's just different ChumpNah.

[whottt]

But they could be going over the threshold this coming season -- so they would have to waive Rasho in that case, no matter what the status of Nazr.

You can't stick a hypothetical on top of my hypothetical...that's bullshit and you know it.


I don't think they are in danger of it, although they'd be a hell of a lot closer to it if Nazr got a new deal...and if they were close to it now they'd sign Nazr and waive Rasho...if they couldn't do that they'd trade Nazr and keep Rasho, or they might just take their chances...Holt was willing to risk it this past summer...

If the Spurs were antsy about their tax situation...they'd waive Rasho...I really don't think this point is that hard to get.





It's all about the rebate, according to you.

It is...according to Holt.


Old CBA, not new.
He didn't specify...he's gonna get less now than he did before...he was about to lose a young stuperstar PG over a 2 million dollars...you don't think he'd let go of Rasho? You are on serious crack.



It has all sorts of historical backing. Sorry you can't get it.Nah.

It has none.
You are the one that doesn't get it.
Yah.

[ChumpDumper]

You can't stick a hypothetical on top of my hypothetical.Why not? Is there a rulebook I haven't seen?
I don't think they are in danger of it, although they'd be a hell of a lot closer to it if Nazr got a new deal.That wouldn't make any difference for this coming season.
If the Spurs were antsy about their tax situation...they'd waive Rasho...I really don't think this point is that hard to get.How antsy? What is the antsy threshold?
It is...according to Holt.So my hypothetical would be true then: Dump Rasho even though Nazr isn't under contract. The rebate above all else -- even if it's only a couple of million dollars. Understood.
He didn't specify.He didn't have to. When did he say this? Before or after the new CBA was agreed to? You must have the article bookmarked.
he was about to lose a young stuperstar PG over a 2 million dollars.How could that have anything to do with the luxury tax? Show me that Holt has the tax threshold for the next six years worked out within a minimum-salary margin of error. There has to be an article for that too.
you don't think he'd let go of Rasho?And Nazr, according to you. It's the rebate above everything. You said so.

[whottt]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5196

[Old School Chic]

Spurs Re-Sign Horry

Hip Hip Hooray! :spin

[ChumpDumper]

The team can't assess its financial future and accurately project any losses until it knows the terms of the new CBA, Holt said.Seems he knows that now. New CBA. New projections.
Holt said he is prepared to pay some type of luxury tax in the future, but he doesn't want the team's annual penalty to be much more than the modest $300,000 it paid following the 2002-03 season.

"I can live with that," Holt said. "But I can't pay $50 million in luxury tax. I can't pay the kind of tax (Dallas owner) Mark Cuban and (Portland owner) Paul Allen have paid.So the antsy threshold is somewhere between $300,000 and $50 million. That's pretty exact.

Great news.

[whottt]

Seems he knows that now. New CBA. New projections.
Um he's pretty straight forward on how he feels about paying the tax...Old or New CBA doesn't matter. And the truth is he wasn't paying anything under those conditions...he would have been getting back.


So the antsy threshold is somewhere between $300,000 and $50 million. That's pretty exact.

Um..no...it was between 300K and the 2 million Tony Parker wanted that he didn't want to part with.


Great news.

Hedo>Manu

[ChumpDumper]

he would have been getting back.And under the new CBA he can go higher over the tax threshold and still get money back.
Um..no...it was between 300K and the 2 million Tony Parker wanted that he didn't want to part with.That's not the quote, and that's not the only deal that gets bigger over time. Strangely enough all signs are pointing to more and more salary. Better waive him now.
Hedo>ManuYour trying to change the subject is the surest sign I've won. Didn't take long.

[whottt]

And under the new CBA he can go higher over the tax threshold and still get money back.

That's great...now just show me he has the willingness to do so...



That's not the quote, and that's not the only deal that gets biget over time.

Hedo>Manu


Your trying to change the subject is the surest sign I've won. Didn't take long.

Uh no....it's a sign that you refuse to see the obvious if you aren't getting beat over the head with it.

[ChumpDumper]

That's great...now just show me he has the willingness to do so...There isn't any indication either way with the new CBA.
Hedo>ManuYou lost. Understood.
Uh no....it's a sign that you refuse to see the obvious if you aren't getting beat over the head with it.Like telling you there is a new CBA? Have you gotten that yet?

[whottt]

Holt said he is prepared to pay some type of luxury tax in the future, but he doesn't want the team's annual penalty to be much more than the modest $300,000 it paid following the 2002-03 season.

Again...Hedo>Manu

If you can't see it, I can't help you.

[ChumpDumper]

How much is much?

He didn't know then.

He knows now.

You don't.

[whottt]

How much is much?

He didn't know then.

Yes he did...it was the two million Parker wanted...hence the title of that article.


He knows now.

You don't.

Hedo>Manu

Stop embarassing yourself Chump...you fool no one.

[ChumpDumper]

"...there are so many uncertainties right now..."
Holt said he does not want to increase the offer because the NBA's salary structure may change this summer when the collective bargaining agreement between the league and players union expires.
The team can't assess its financial future and accurately project any losses until it knows the terms of the new CBA, Holt said.Yeah, he was completely sure. that's the language of a guy who is certain of everything.

Coyote > DRob
Barry < 10mpg
Heal > Jordan

You're through.

[whottt]

Holt said he is prepared to pay some type of luxury tax in the future, but he [b]doesn't want the team's annual penalty to be much more than the modest $300,000

Exactly how fucking hard is it to read that fucking sentence?

Can you read fucking English?

Do you see him qualifying that statement based "new cap or old cap?

No you do not...It is an absolute statement...you douche.

[ChumpDumper]

It is an absolute statement.How much is much?

Using Parker's deal only at this point is useless.

What has changed since then?

The CBA.

The higher cap.

The lower pay increases.

The shorter deals.

The distribution of the rebate.

Malik.

Those are also absolutes.

[nanya]

i'm so happy