Which player has the best fundamentals?

[whitemamba]

players that can do it all

discuss

[LkrFan]

Kobe Bean Bryant. He is the most complete player in the game.

[spurraider21]

of course there's the big fundamental... TD has anchored the Spurs on both ends of the floor for years. Can score down low, can pop out and hit jumpers, and locks down the paint. Great leader, great passer, underrated ball handler

LeBron an obvious candidate, along with KG, Wade, Kobe, Chris Paul.

Kobe's gotten older, and his defense isn't what it once was. His new-found desire to pass the the ball is impressive. Funny how his recent assist surge has coincided with the Lakers increased win%.

LeBron quite literally does it all. Wade essentially a lesser LeBron. KG can play inside, outside, and monster defense. Paul is a do it all point guard. Scoring, passing, leading, and pretty good defensively too.

Guys that CAN get on this list:
Westbrook. So freakin talented and explosive. Easily has the physical tools to be the best point guard, on both ends of the floor. Problems lie between the ears.
Harden. Man his game has grown quick. He was better defensively on OKC, but that was to be expected on an up-tempo team like Houston, especially with him essentially playing the LeBron role in Houston.
Anthony Davis: needs to refine his game, but tools are definitely there. has good shooting mechanics and all the athletic ability to be a great all around player.
Kyrie: dude reminds me a lot of Brandon Roy, in that he's not freaky athletic, not uber explosive, but plays so damn smooth. Needs to become a defensive leader to crack the list

[rayjayjohnson]

Isn't Kyrie statistically the worst defender in the league? That means he shouldn't be on the "can get on the list" list

[Thebesteva]

Tim Duncan and Karl Malone come to mind for some reason.

[skmblz]

the matrix

[hater]

TP

his D has picked up to above average level. He can do it all.

[racm]

Duncan
James
Garnett
Bryant
Paul

And Monta Ellis have it all

[monosylab1k]

Fundamentals and "doing it all" aren't the same thing

[Brazil]

Kobe Bean Bryant. He is the most complete player in the game.

:lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe Bean Bryant. He is the most complete player in the game.
Defense hasn't stopped being part of the game, son....

[jag]

Kobe's fundamentals are impressive, tbqh. Footwork, shooting form, ball-handling. I heard he had great rape form as well.

Nash is also up there when it comes to fundamentals.

[Killakobe81]

Fundamentals and doing it all are two different things.

Example: Battier (and others) may have better defensive fundamentals than Lebron... meaning they have the proper stance, they shade the player to help or to their off hand well etc. The Bulls players for the most part (not Boozer) exemplify this. Lebron has good but not great fundamentals (his jumpshot, defensive positioning, foot-work in the post are all non text-book) but he is so good at almost everything due to his size, speed and strength that it does not matter.
Kobe being a sometimes defender has nothing to do with fundamentals which are usually excellent. His sometimes crappy defense has to do with coasting on that end of the court and sometimes he just does not have the speed or athleticism to deal with a healthy rose or Westbrook type player. Im pretty sure most fans dont watch as much Laker games as I do and when he dials in ...Kobe is still capable of elite defense in spurts it just does not happen enough ...


Best Fundamentals:

Kobe
Duncan
Marc and Pau Gasol

Best Specialists:

Jumper: Ray allen (perfect form almost)
Post Moves: Al Jeff (up and under is sweet)
Defending pnr: Noah and KG
Rebounding: (box out) Noah, Love Asik
Shot Blocking:

[Thread]

Kobe's fundamentals are impressive, tbqh. Footwork, shooting form, ball-handling. I heard he had great rape form as well.

You've nary room. Your Neal raped too.

Let us proceed...

[jag]

I don't recognize Thread as Culburn. And I will not directly interact with him.

[Thread]

I don't recognize Thread as Culburn. And I will not directly interact with him.

lmcontrollinao!!!

[DMC]

Fundamentals and "doing it all" aren't the same thing

Thank you.

Tim has great fundamentals as does KG and Ray Allen. Lebron doesn't have good fundamentals. Kobe has great fundamentals, that's why he's been as good as he has been. Steven Nash has good fundamentals.

It depends on what part of the game you're talking about. Some have shooting fundamentals, some have defense fundamentals, some have moving without the ball fundamentals. There are some freaky good players who's fundamentals suck, Manu comes to mind.

Dirk's high arching shot is fundamentally great while Tim's line drives at the rim aren't so much. He hits a good number of them but he could have a higher shooting percentage if he had better shot mechanics.

So Mono is right, all around player /= fundamentally sound.

[racm]

Thank you.

Tim has great fundamentals as does KG and Ray Allen. Lebron doesn't have good fundamentals. Kobe has great fundamentals, that's why he's been as good as he has been. Steven Nash has good fundamentals.

It depends on what part of the game you're talking about. Some have shooting fundamentals, some have defense fundamentals, some have moving without the ball fundamentals. There are some freaky good players who's fundamentals suck, Manu comes to mind.

Dirk's high arching shot is fundamentally great while Tim's line drives at the rim aren't so much. He hits a good number of them but he could have a higher shooting percentage if he had better shot mechanics.

So Mono is right, all around player /= fundamentally sound.

When Kobe's not bombing 3s his post game is fun to watch. I dislike it when he just chucks it up but that happens when his team doesn't lock in on offense.

[OKC]

Lebron is by far the most well rounded player in the NBA. There is NOTHING that Lebron doesn't do at least reasonably well, and that cannot be said for anyone else in the league. Think about it. He can play ANY position on the floor reasonably well, from point guard to center. Who else can do that? He runs the floor like a guard, can bang with the bigs, handle the ball like a point, one of the best passers in the game. He can post you up on the block or hurt you 25 feet from the basket.

I guess Lebron is my "do it all" selection, even though the title says fundamentals. The OP said player than can do it all though..so I go with Lebron.

[Phillip]

Kobe, Nash, Duncan, and Dirk are probably the most fundamentally sound players in the league, and have been for like a decade now, or longer.

Ginobili, Pierce, and Harden are probably a tier below, but all very solid fundamentally.

When I think of fundamentals, I think of people who find ways to beat you without relying on a high level of athletic ability, and can do so in a number of ways. They are all very skilled, cerebral players.

[Phillip]

Thank you.

Tim has great fundamentals as does KG and Ray Allen. Lebron doesn't have good fundamentals. Kobe has great fundamentals, that's why he's been as good as he has been. Steven Nash has good fundamentals.

It depends on what part of the game you're talking about. Some have shooting fundamentals, some have defense fundamentals, some have moving without the ball fundamentals. There are some freaky good players who's fundamentals suck, Manu comes to mind.

Dirk's high arching shot is fundamentally great while Tim's line drives at the rim aren't so much. He hits a good number of them but he could have a higher shooting percentage if he had better shot mechanics.

So Mono is right, all around player /= fundamentally sound.

I think both of those statements are incorrect.

Lebron has solid fundamentals. Not great, but improving.

Manu has an unorthodox style, but he is very fundamentally sound.

[lefty]

Kobe Bean Bryant. He is the most complete player in the game.
Kobe the most complete ?

The guy who rarely plays D ?


GTFO :lmao

[JamStone]

Kobe has great fundamentals. The fact he doesn't play a lick of defense doesn't mean he lacks fundamentals. He lacks the desire to play defense these days. Goes back to how mono said there's a difference between fundamentals and doing it all. LeBron has very good fundamentals for the most part. I don't think he's improved his low post offense though. People have suggested he has, but when i see him go down in the post, I don't see great footwork or technical moves. What ends up happening, he still just resorts to brute strength or speed to score. His game still features quite a bit of reliance in athleticism, so I don't see him as a highly fundamental player. However, I do agree that LeBron is the most complete player in the game as it relates to doing it all and at both ends of the court.

I like the mention of Paul Pierce. He immediately came to mind. Nash, CP3, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Pau Gasol have obvious high fundamentals. I think Stephen Curry especially offensively has great fundamentals, at least when it comes to the basic dribble, pass, shoot skills. Shane Battier has textbook fundamentals for any player who doesn't have elite athleticism or great one-on-one skill.

[Koolaid_Man]

players that can do it all

discuss

It used to be Tim Duncan but now his knees seem to get stuck when changing gears...

[irishock]

Toss up between Tim and Kobe. One doesn't have a outside shooting game and one chooses not to defend.

[whitemamba]

Toss up between Tim and Kobe. One doesn't have a outside shooting game and one chooses not to defend.


this

[whitemamba]

It used to be Tim Duncan but now his knees seem to get stuck when changing gears...
:lol

[Phillip]

Kobe has great fundamentals. The fact he doesn't play a lick of defense doesn't mean he lacks fundamentals. He lacks the desire to play defense these days. Goes back to how mono said there's a difference between fundamentals and doing it all. LeBron has very good fundamentals for the most part. I don't think he's improved his low post offense though. People have suggested he has, but when i see him go down in the post, I don't see great footwork or technical moves. What ends up happening, he still just resorts to brute strength or speed to score. His game still features quite a bit of reliance in athleticism, so I don't see him as a highly fundamental player. However, I do agree that LeBron is the most complete player in the game as it relates to doing it all and at both ends of the court.

I like the mention of Paul Pierce. He immediately came to mind. Nash, CP3, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Pau Gasol have obvious high fundamentals. I think Stephen Curry especially offensively has great fundamentals, at least when it comes to the basic dribble, pass, shoot skills. Shane Battier has textbook fundamentals for any player who doesn't have elite athleticism or great one-on-one skill.

:toast

[DMC]

I think both of those statements are incorrect.

Lebron has solid fundamentals. Not great, but improving.

Manu has an unorthodox style, but he is very fundamentally sound.

Manu's shot has his elbow straying away from his body. That's a fundamental flaw. His passing is creative, but they don't teach that in fundamentals 101. He's a creator, not a fundamental player. Nothing about Manu is fundamental.

Lebron doesn't have good fundamentals. He just recently learned to play with his back to the basket. He's athletic and incredibly talented, but his shooting fundamentals aren't close to a Ray Allen, and his post fundamentals aren't close to a Tim Duncan, and his defensive fundamentals aren't close to a Bruce Bowen.

He's not what I would consider "good" in the NBA in terms of fundamentals, meaning technique being textbook.

[DMC]

It used to be Tim Duncan but now his knees seem to get stuck when changing gears...

Bill Russell for you.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol mentioning duncan in this thread, most overrated hack

[DMC]

Kobe, Nash, Duncan, and Dirk are probably the most fundamentally sound players in the league, and have been for like a decade now, or longer.

Ginobili, Pierce, and Harden are probably a tier below, but all very solid fundamentally.

When I think of fundamentals, I think of people who find ways to beat you without relying on a high level of athletic ability, and can do so in a number of ways. They are all very skilled, cerebral players.

Then you are thinking of "fundamentals" in the wrong way. Fundamentals are the basic techniques taught at HS level and on through college. It's not the ability to create despite athletic shortcomings.

[Budkin]

In today's NBA it's got to be LeBron.

[BatManu20]

JR Smith.

[Phillip]

Manu's shot has his elbow straying away from his body. That's a fundamental flaw. His passing is creative, but they don't teach that in fundamentals 101. He's a creator, not a fundamental player. Nothing about Manu is fundamental.

Lebron doesn't have good fundamentals. He just recently learned to play with his back to the basket. He's athletic and incredibly talented, but his shooting fundamentals aren't close to a Ray Allen, and his post fundamentals aren't close to a Tim Duncan, and his defensive fundamentals aren't close to a Bruce Bowen.

He's not what I would consider "good" in the NBA in terms of fundamentals, meaning technique being textbook.

Fundamentals can change from player to player. It's impossible to have an exact set of ways to do things for every single basketball player on earth.

If you can beat people with your skills, as opposed to incredible athletic ability, then your fundamentals obviously are just fine, even if they may not be incredibly pretty or orthodox looking.

Manu may have a strange looking jumper, but he is a deadly shooter, has incredible footwork, and does a number of different things incredibly well.


Then you are thinking of "fundamentals" in the wrong way. Fundamentals are the basic techniques taught at HS level and on through college. It's not the ability to create despite athletic shortcomings.

How on earth is that the wrong way to look at it? Basic techniques are what made unathletic players like Nash, Bird, and Dirk so incredibly successful. Basic techniques are what allowed these guys, as well as others such as MJ to be incredibly dominant late in their careers without needing to rely on their athletic ability, especially when their athletic ability subsided. So yes, it most certainly gives you an ability to create despite athletic shortcomings. Without incredible fundamentals, exactly how effective would Dirk, Bird, or Nash have been?

[Brunodf]

TP

his D has picked up to above average level. He can do it all.
:lol4/10

[Grit and Grind]

JR Smith.

The Friend killer :lol

[DAF86]

That right handed hook that Duncan tries when turning to his right therefore making his shot easier to block is very un-fundamental(esque) for a guy that has "the big fundamental" as his nickname. In fact, many of the things he does aren't very fundamentally sound, tbh. For ex: his free shooting stance.

[Thread]

^He's afraid if he bends forward his tramp-stamp will be exposed.

[Lincoln]

Shawn Marion IMO. Dat jumpshot, dem post moves, Dat ball handling

[DMC]

Fundamentals can change from player to player. It's impossible to have an exact set of ways to do things for every single basketball player on earth.

If you can beat people with your skills, as opposed to incredible athletic ability, then your fundamentals obviously are just fine, even if they may not be incredibly pretty or orthodox looking.

Manu may have a strange looking jumper, but he is a deadly shooter, has incredible footwork, and does a number of different things incredibly well.

Basketball fundamentals are existing things, not a nebulous concept that changes from player to player. It's not "hey, what's his fundamentals like?". You either have a fundamental understanding of the game or you don't. Just because you don't doesn't mean you aren't effective. I think Manu has a fundamental understanding, but the terms "unorthodox" and "fundamental" are not synonyms. In fact, the term "advanced" is an antonym of "fundamental". Things some of the successful non-athletic players do to be successful are advanced techniques they've perfected, some are even credited with creating the technique.

Fundamentals are basics. You can use the term how you like, that's your choice, but the fundamental meaning of the word is "elementary", or root level, where your elbow resides on your jump shot, how you dribble, your offensive stance, your release, your defensive stance as well, your footwork in the paint, etc...


How on earth is that the wrong way to look at it? Basic techniques are what made unathletic players like Nash, Bird, and Dirk so incredibly successful. Basic techniques are what allowed these guys, as well as others such as MJ to be incredibly dominant late in their careers without needing to rely on their athletic ability, especially when their athletic ability subsided. So yes, it most certainly gives you an ability to create despite athletic shortcomings. Without incredible fundamentals, exactly how effective would Dirk, Bird, or Nash have been?
Yes, fundamentals made all of these people remain viable players though their reputations put then in a position to play large minutes, but not all viable nonathletic players are fundamentally sound. Matt Bonner, for example.

There are people who are very fundamentally sound but cannot compete at the NBA level, and there are people who are very athletic and cannot complete at the NBA level. When I think of fundamentally flawed athletic players, I think D-league. Most NBA starters/stars have enough fundamental skills to stay in the game. The ones I mentioned though, especially Kobe Bryant, are the most fundamentally sound players (I think Kobe is more fundamentally sound than MJ was tbh).

[Spursfan092120]

Kobe Bean Bryant. He is the most complete player in the game.
:lol defense

[Phillip]

Basketball fundamentals are existing things, not a nebulous concept that changes from player to player. It's not "hey, what's his fundamentals like?". You either have a fundamental understanding of the game or you don't. Just because you don't doesn't mean you aren't effective. I think Manu has a fundamental understanding, but the terms "unorthodox" and "fundamental" are not synonyms. In fact, the term "advanced" is an antonym of "fundamental". Things some of the successful non-athletic players do to be successful are advanced techniques they've perfected, some are even credited with creating the technique.

And if the same technique doesn't work for everyone, then exactly how "fundamental" is it? Because the same techniques obviously don't work for everyone, because basically every single player has their own way of doing things. There are a number of different looking forms on jumpshots that work for a lot of people. So which way is the "correct" way if so many ways works for so many people? Dirk, Nash, Ray Allen, and Kevin Durant are 4 of the greatest jumpshooters the game has ever seen. Yet, all of them have noticeably different looking shots. Then you can throw a couple more in there like Jason Kapono and Matt Bonner who are fantastic jumpshooters, but have far different jumpshots as well.


Fundamentals are basics. You can use the term how you like, that's your choice, but the fundamental meaning of the word is "elementary", or root level, where your elbow resides on your jump shot, how you dribble, your offensive stance, your release, your defensive stance as well, your footwork in the paint, etc...

Yes, fundamentals made all of these people remain viable players though their reputations put then in a position to play large minutes, but not all viable nonathletic players are fundamentally sound. Matt Bonner, for example.

I didn't say that all non-athletic players are quality players. But there isn't a single non-athletic player, that is a quality player, that isn't fundamentally sound in one way or another. Not one.


There are people who are very fundamentally sound but cannot compete at the NBA level, and there are people who are very athletic and cannot complete at the NBA level. When I think of fundamentally flawed athletic players, I think D-league. Most NBA starters/stars have enough fundamental skills to stay in the game. The ones I mentioned though, especially Kobe Bryant, are the most fundamentally sound players (I think Kobe is more fundamentally sound than MJ was tbh).

What exactly is your point here?

[Latarian Milton]

Kobe Bean Bryant. He is the most complete player in the game.
my nigga bron is the most complete basketball player since magic and i think everyone except the most retarded homers can easily agree on this one. bron is physically gifted and he always tries to push himself to a new level. kobe is an elite scorer but aside from scoring, there ain't much else he can speak of imho.

neither bron nor kobe has the best fundamentals in the league though. paul pierce has the best fundamentals of all current NBA players and he's a textbook to all amateaur learners (who're often limited in athleticism). dude can create open shots for himself even w/o lifting his feet off the ground tbh

[King Emmanuel]

PEDBron can't shoot for shit honestly

just reckless driving and monkeyballing keeping his FG% up.