Are Big men today lazy?

[apalisoc_9]

I'm thinking about the fact that hakeem was merely a defensive bigman in college, learned basketball at the age of 16 but he somehow become the most versatile center to ever play the game..

Why is that bigmen today are so fcking shitty? Lack of dedication? hardwork?

[UNCLE-DREW]

hakeem is a once in a lifetime player, i wanna bet there will be never anthing like him again and no duncan doesn't qualify

[Phillip]

I'm thinking about the fact that hakeem was merely a defensive bigman in college, learned basketball at the age of 16 but he somehow become the most versatile center to ever play the game..

Why is that bigmen today are so fcking shitty? Lack of dedication? hardwork?

Some of it is because the game has become oriented around perimeter play. So most teams don't need dominant scorers inside, as opposed to guys like Tyson Chandler who can do all the dirty work, and not need many offensive touches.

There might not be many good scoring big men, but there are plenty of quality big men who fits most teams needs.

[Thread]

Once Daddy pulverized Mutombo in the Philly Finals Colangelo went berserk, convened that blue ribbon panel and changed the rules. We were fortunate to get two more before the rules were utilized, but, that is where the demarcation line is.

[TDMVPDPOY]

nba is perimeter orientated these days

college could give 2 shits developing bigs

[lefty]

Philip is right


And thats why I hate the fact they have allowed zone D in the NBA

Now you have players like Ryan Anderson starting in the NBA because of that

Fuck, he would have been a scrub in another era

There is too much 3 pt shooting in the NBA right now, It's like I'm watching NCAA ball now ... thank you Stern and Colangelo, you senile POS


That's why I can appreciate a ballhogs like Kobe and Monta Ellis, they remind me of the simpler times :-)

[Phillip]

Philip is right


And thats why I hate the fact they have allowed zone D in the NBA

Now you have players like Ryan Anderson starting in the NBA because of that

Fuck, he would have been a scrub in another era

There is too much 3 pt shooting in the NBA right now, It's like I'm watching NCAA ball now ... thank you Stern and Colangelo, you senile POS


That's why I can appreciate a ballhogs like Kobe and Monta Ellis, they remind me of the simpler times :-)

I don't think it is so much due to zone defense, as opposed to the increasingly high levels of athleticism in players today, as well as the improvement of defensive strategy over the past 20-25 years (80s and prior had awful freaking defensive effort). It is getting so much harder to get good looks at the rim with the way people can double off of their man, and back in time to prevent an easy mid-range jumper, that pretty much the only shot that you can get consistent space for, is a 3 point shot.

I think people are too quick to blame Stern and the rule changes, and are not looking at the higher level of athleticism, and the higher quality defense played today, as opposed to the 80s, 70s, and prior.

[Katherine Robinson]

The bigmen my cuckold of a husband brings over on family fun night are not lazy whatsoever.

[Thread]

^
- "Shut up bitch. Make me turkey pot pie."

- "John Bender" - "The Breakfast Club"

[Katherine Robinson]

Yes, honey.

[Thread]

- "I'm a pacifist by nature. I don't believe in hitting anyone unless your absolutely sure you can get away with it."

- Harold Ramis - "Stripes"

[lefty]

I don't think it is so much due to zone defense, as opposed to the increasingly high levels of athleticism in players today, as well as the improvement of defensive strategy over the past 20-25 years (80s and prior had awful freaking defensive effort). It is getting so much harder to get good looks at the rim with the way people can double off of their man, and back in time to prevent an easy mid-range jumper, that pretty much the only shot that you can get consistent space for, is a 3 point shot.

I think people are too quick to blame Stern and the rule changes, and are not looking at the higher level of athleticism, and the higher quality defense played today, as opposed to the 80s, 70s, and prior.
Better defense or shittier fundamentals ?

Lets not forget that before the rule changes, handchecking was allowed, and there was no defensive 3 second violation

So you had to get past your defender 1st with him handchecking you, and once you got to the rim, John Salley or Pat Ewing were sitting in there waiting to smack you

Players have it easier today


Plus when you watch a game from the 80s-90s, scoring was highet because most players had better fundamentals; good midrange shooting, decent ball handling, decent passing, better shot selection; it doesnt mean the D were shit

Today we may have more athletic feeaks, but with less brain and less fundamental

Look a those turds Dwight Howard and DeMonkey Jordan

[Phillip]

Better defense or shittier fundamentals?

I guess you could say a combo of both. But its easier for fundamentals to look worse, when you are being defended more tightly and physically than 30 years ago. People in the 80s had so many wide open mid range shots, it was impossible to shoot under 50%.


Lets not forget that before the rule changes, handchecking was allowed, and there was no defensive 3 second violation

So you had to get past your defender 1st with him handchecking you, and once you got to the rim, John Salley or Pat Ewing were sitting in there waiting to smack you

People still handcheck. Maybe you can't do it quite as blatantly, but make no mistake, everyone still handchecks, just in more subtle ways.

The whole handchecking vs. zone defense is a wash, IMO. Zone existed when it was banned, just like handchecking exists today even though its banned.



Plus when you watch a game from the 80s-90s, scoring was highet because most players had better fundamentals; good midrange shooting, decent ball handling, decent passing, better shot selection; it doesnt mean the D were shit

Again, defense in the 80s generally sucked. 90s is when it got much better. But look back, and watch how awful and lazy the effort was on defense in the 80s and prior. People were so incredibly wide open on mid range shots that it was impossible to not hit consistently.


Today we may have more athletic feeaks, but with less brain and less fundamental

Look a those turds Dwight Howard and DeMonkey Jordan

I don't disagree... to an extent. But this is still an athlete's game. Athleticism isn't everything, but make no mistake... it matters a LOT.

[Clipper Nation]

A lot of these guys make their names in the AAU circuit, where, from what I've heard, they're not really taught the fundamentals very well.... then they spend a year in college, which isn't enough time to deeply ingrain fundamental basketball, so once they get to the NBA, they're trying to learn against pros.... I'm not so sure it's laziness with many of today's bigs as much as lack of experience...

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm thinking about the fact that hakeem was merely a defensive bigman in college, learned basketball at the age of 16 but he somehow become the most versatile center to ever play the game..

Why is that bigmen today are so fcking shitty? Lack of dedication? hardwork?


^ Do you think that any of the great big men in NBA history such as Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Russell, Dirk, Mikan, Ewing, etc etc...would have been ok with their coach sitting them out of games just for the hell of it...sitting them out of games for extra rest down the stretch...

The only big man that seems ok with this strategy is Tim Duncan and it's a shame tbh..talk about shitty, lazy, and lack of dedication...

[jdiggy0424]

I'm thinking about the fact that hakeem was merely a defensive bigman in college, learned basketball at the age of 16 but he somehow become the most versatile center to ever play the game..

Why is that bigmen today are so fcking shitty? Lack of dedication? hardwork?

We can't forget that players in todays NBA grew up watching the likes of MJ, Kobe, AI, Tmac, etc., Thus, its only natural for them to have a guard like mentality till the age of about 16, or whenever they start getting a growth spurt.

Im willing to bet that most players aren't even taught big man fundamentals until they are actually "Big Men".

[TheRealCB]

We can't forget that players in todays NBA grew up watching the likes of MJ, Kobe, AI, Tmac, etc., Thus, its only natural for them to have a guard like mentality till the age of about 16, or whenever they start getting a growth spurt.

Im willing to bet that most players aren't even taught big man fundamentals until they are actually "Big Men".

This,and on the flip-side,the early bloomers don't have to learn any post skills because their size allows them to dominate high school and college level without having a post game.

[DMC]

- "I'm a pacifist by nature. I don't believe in hitting anyone unless your absolutely sure you can get away with it."

- Harold Ramis - "Stripes"
Definitely not Culburn. Culburn only credits Ernie "the cat" Ladd and himself for everything as a trend setter. It's been proven he's plagiarized most of his shit, but he still claims he invented it. All this crediting random comments to movies are not in keeping with the spirit of Culburn.

[DMC]

^ Do you think that any of the great big men in NBA history such as Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Russell, Dirk, Mikan, Ewing, etc etc...would have been ok with their coach sitting them out of games just for the hell of it...sitting them out of games for extra rest down the stretch...

The only big man that seems ok with this strategy is Tim Duncan and it's a shame tbh..talk about shitty, lazy, and lack of dedication...

On the bus to the championships, Tim was the driver. He was never the rider unlike Kobe. Tim can do whatever he likes now, he has Carte Blanche.

[Bynumite]

I blame monkeyballing for the downfall of the big man and players chasing highlights. There's nothing wrong with monkeyballing but when that's all you do...

Drew looked like he could be one of the few who could carry the torch of the old school big man but first he needs to stay healthy for that to happen.

[Latarian Milton]

I don't think it is so much due to zone defense, as opposed to the increasingly high levels of athleticism in players today, as well as the improvement of defensive strategy over the past 20-25 years (80s and prior had awful freaking defensive effort). It is getting so much harder to get good looks at the rim with the way people can double off of their man, and back in time to prevent an easy mid-range jumper, that pretty much the only shot that you can get consistent space for, is a 3 point shot.

I think people are too quick to blame Stern and the rule changes, and are not looking at the higher level of athleticism, and the higher quality defense played today, as opposed to the 80s, 70s, and prior.
i agree with you that it's not much the fault of zone defense. europeans predominantely play zone defense and bigs still play pivotal roles in their games up to this day. people's growing fetish for monkeyball has to be the main reason why the prominence of bigs have dinimished so bad over these years imho.

moreover, the prevalence of video games has also bolstered people's preference of monkeyball to a significant extent imho. you can win games with 5 elite guards or small forwards in 2k13 and the real-world basketball is also evolving towards that end, becoming more and more similar to video games. in hakeem's era, however, people didn't have that many basketball games and no one would imagine they could win games that way tbh

[racm]

A lot of these guys make their names in the AAU circuit, where, from what I've heard, they're not really taught the fundamentals very well.... then they spend a year in college, which isn't enough time to deeply ingrain fundamental basketball, so once they get to the NBA, they're trying to learn against pros.... I'm not so sure it's laziness with many of today's bigs as much as lack of experience...

Agreed... the whole "player must be 19 to be drafted" thing means that high school prospects typically have to spend a year in the NCAA. Who benefits? Certainly not the kids who just went to college as a formality.

Paradoxically we're seeing fewer polished guys due to the one-and-done rule because there's no incentive for players to be drafted after four years in college.