Random Thoughts after rebound win against OKC

[timvp]

-The second half meltdown against the Blazers is still a mystery. I know the Spurs had an off night and the Blazers had it going -- but, damn, I still can't put my finger on exactly what happened. What's strange is I didn't think any player was terrible -- it was more a matter of the entire team stopped trying on defense. But I've never seen that type of collapse out of a good defensive Spurs team -- and this year's squad definitely qualifies. Odd.

-I've been traveling a lot lately but that Portland game was the first game I've had to watch via an online stream all season (and probably the last). For that reason, it's even more surreal in my book. Are we sure that contest actually took place?

-I didn't really know how the Spurs would respond against OKC. After embarrassing losses, NBA teams usually either bounce back and play extremely well or fall apart and start skidding. After the first quarter, I was worried about the latter. Thankfully, it appears as if the former won out. I thought the defense in the final three quarters was really good and the Spurs were playing with extra chips on their shoulders. In retrospect, that humiliating loss against the Blazers probably was a good thing because the Spurs were forced to let the bad taste in their mouth fester until unleashing their rage against the Thunder.

-I remain stumped regarding Kawhi Leonard's potential. He has moves -- particularly moves off the dribble in the midrange area -- that are superstar-esque. You just don't see many players his size score on those move with such fluidity. The ones who can do it consistently become superstars.

-Regardless of what Leonard will become, the here and now is exciting. He has dialed up his aggressiveness and the results have been outstanding. Sure, he'll make some mistakes but he's blossoming right before our eyes. I believe that it's imperative that Pop (and everyone else for that matter) makes it a point to keep Leonard highly involved going forward. For the Spurs to win a championship, he might have to turn into a star this season. The only way that happens is if he keeps getting fed.

-It was great to see Danny Green do so well against the Thunder. He looks like a totally different player than the green, wide-eyed imposter who roamed the court in his jersey last June. We talk a lot about Leonard's development but Green is right there too. On consecutive plays he utilized a pump-fake to create open space for a three-pointer and then pulled up for a three in transition. Those six points were huge and created the momentum for San Antonio to dig themselves out of the early hole. The rest of the way, Green played very well in just about every possible category. Let us hope he keeps it up.

-And then there was Tiago Splitter. If we're being blunt, he was soft, choked and sucked simultaneously last year in the WCF. Tonight, he was a beast. He was by far the best bigman on the court, in fact. If he can play like he did tonight consistently, the Thunder suddenly don't matchup very well against the Spurs.

-Speaking of Splitter, a turning point in the first half was when Pop kept his big lineup on the court even though the Thunder went small. Pop was able to do that because Splitter was mobile enough to defend Derek Fisher on the perimeter. That's an almost unheard of cross-matchup but Splitter did well and it allowed Pop to win that game of chess.

-Another Pop move that worked was using Gary Neal at backup point guard. In his first few minutes on the court, I thought Neal looked bad. But he stuck to it and grinded out a solid showing. Neal is bad on defense -- but so is Patty Mills and Nando De Colo doesn't write back to France penning poems about his D either. Offensively, Neal can create shots for himself -- and that in itself is valuable. When he's passing adequately and not in a me-first, me-only mode, he's useful. Tonight he was useful.

-Did Pop pull a rope-a-dope against Russell Westbrook? I think he did. Pop had Neal defend Westbrook for long stretches and the Spurs sent little to no help. To add fuel to the fire, Neal was giving him about a five-foot cushion at all times. Westbrook took it as a challenge and started going into hyper-aggressive mode. His outside jumper wasn't falling so the strategy worked to cool off the Thunder. Westbrook destroyed his team's offensive flow. Kevin Durant didn't get enough touches to get going. Their team just had no ball-movement -- which was totally the opposite of Games 3 through 6 last year. I don't know if that's a repeatable strategy because most of the time Westbrook will go for 40 if you stick a hobbled Neal on him with no help … but it worked tonight.

-The more I think of this win, the bigger it is and the more impressed I am. No Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili didn't play that well. Tim Duncan was solid but far, far from the top of his game. OKC, of course, was in perfect health. Yet the Spurs got a win thanks mostly to Leonard, Splitter and Green. A loss tonight would have been devastating to San Antonio's chances of getting the first seed in the West. With the win, the Spurs are still in the driver's seat -- especially if Parker can return from injury early.

-I don't think Cory Joseph especially helped his chances of staying in the rotation once Parker returns but he also didn't hurt his chances. I love his defense. And even if he's not doing much on offense, he still has a leadership quality about him that seems to help keep things organized. I still stick to my opinion that Joseph is the second best point guard on this team.

-Hey, at least Boris Diaw is coachable. Early on, he was so damn passive that it was difficult to watch. But after he passed up about his fifth open shot, Ginobili told him to "shoot the f***ing ball" and Diaw listened. From then on, he was pretty darn good. He hit some big shots and played with about ten times as much aggression as before Ginobili cursed at him. But, really, at this point you'd hope Diaw would have figured out he has to be ready from his first minute. Let's hope that realization comes at some point before the playoffs.

-I'm going to bury this down here so it doesn't come off as I'm whining but holy hell do the Thunder get a lot of whistles in their favor. It's really unbelievable. Not even the Lakers have ever gotten this sort of whistle. They get a good five to ten borderline whistles to go their way. Then they get two or three totally bogus whistles. Subtract a few missed whistles on the other team and they are a damn difficult team to beat consistently. I don't believe in NBA conspiracy theories but I haven't yet figured out why OKC gets such a kind whistle. If I had to guess I'd say it's because: 1) They have a lot of great athletes who are difficult to referee because they move so fast 2) They create a ton of legit fouls so the refs are always prepared to blow their whistle 3) They have one of the best homecourt advantages in the league right now so that helps 4) All teams outside of the Heat look unathletic and unaggressive when compared to OKC so they get the benefit of the doubt as the "aggressors".

-Pop broke out a playoff-type bigman rotation in the second half. He only used Duncan, Splitter and Diaw at the big positions. That was great to see and hopefully we see more of that as the season winds down.

-To really make tonight's win count, the Spurs need to go into Minnesota tomorrow night and avoid a letdown. The Timberwolves usually give the Spurs a tough fight at home so San Antonio needs to be ready.

-All in all, it was a great, great win tonight. Outstanding job :tu

[spurraider21]

honestly, timvp random thoughts >

[Brunodf]

-The second half meltdown against the Blazers is still a mystery. I know the Spurs had an off night and the Blazers had it going -- but, damn, I still can't put my finger on exactly what happened. What's strange is I didn't think any player was terrible -- it was more a matter of the entire team stopped trying on defense. But I've never seen that type of collapse out of a good defensive Spurs team -- and this year's squad definitely qualifies. Odd.


1- Pop Should have played CoJo 40 minutes(Lilard was just 4-10 in 22 minutes vs CoJo).
2- Took Tiago out (just 3 fouls) with 7 minutes left in the 3rd, scoreboard was 64-63(7-6 in the quarter), Blazers scored 26 points to end the quarter.
3- Started the 4th with Bonner/Diaw(Spurs was down by 8), Blazers scored 7-0 in 54 seconds and the game was over.

Thanks for the "random thoughts"

[Darius McCrary]

The whistles are the prime reason they're a bad match up.
Duncan, Diaw, Manu, Jackson, and Neal all look slow against the Thunder, and get fouls racked up on them really quick.

[Poolboy5623]

I turned the game on when it was like 27-14 in the first...and was like, oh boy...here we go with the decline of the Spurs(decline in the standings)...from that pt on they were pretty much on a tear. I took away a few things from this big game:
1) Manu needs to reign it in and play smarter. I know his risks he takes are what have made him so special, but for the sake of this team he needs to pipe down. No longer do they need super Manu..
2) kawhi is the real deal. His shot looks like a thing of beauty. Props to pop for leaving him in, when I thought for sure he'd pull him after his "heat check", as Sean called it.
3) not having harden on the floor in the fourth is HUGE. I kept waiting for him to make a fade away 3 with a hand in the face...and then reminded myself he was no longer with the team:)

[Darius McCrary]

Also timvp don't forget Ibaka no call travel and Westbrook blatantly blatant travel no call which led to a thunder run.

[Pop]

Mostly agree, think saying that Green is a completely different player is a big overreaction tho, Splitter is really a different player, his passing game has really surprised everyone for instance, but Green is still very much the same to me.

Also funny was Pop trying to play Manu at point guard only to get mad and bark at Manu like he didn't know that wasn't a good idea in the first place.

[Bruno]

Great thoughts :tu

And the James Harden trade has just been an awesome move for Spurs. It changes so much things in the Thunder/Spurs matchup.

[Splits]

I don't know if Duncan being raped in the post repeatedly and the whistle being absent repeatedly counts as "a few missed whistles" but you shouldn't be so quick to rule out the conspiracy theories. I hate to go there, but when it is so predictable and obvious I can't see how it can be categorically ruled out. With 6 minutes to go I told my wife, "Watch, the refs will start to take over" and sure enough that's exactly what happened out of the under-6 timeout, I don't know how this is so easily discounted.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:tu good read as always timvp

I'll be honest here, I was starting to loose faith in pop. It always seems like he adjusts to teams and doesnt make teams adjust to the spurs. Tonight him leaving tiago and tim while the thunder went smal was a great sign to see. Hope see more of it.

[TD 21]

-I didn't really know how the Spurs would respond against OKC. After embarrassing losses, NBA teams usually either bounce back and play extremely well or fall apart and start skidding.

Then you must not know this team very well. There's two teams that absolutely would have won in this same exact situation tonight: Spurs and Celtics. Too much pride not to . . . plus it helped that it was the Thunder's 4th-in-5 and they had two days off, but still.


-For the Spurs to win a championship, he might have to turn into a star this season.

I don't think he has to be a consistent star (not that there's any other kind, but you get the gist). Like Splitter, he has to be a sometimes star on the nights that Duncan and Ginobili aren't able to to score at a star level, which is going to happen a decent amount against the Thunder, who have quality defenders to throw at them.


-If he can play like he did tonight consistently, the Thunder suddenly don't matchup very well against the Spurs.

I've never understood why people say this. The mere fact that you have to say it shows what an outlier it was. And that's not a knock on him, because no one shoots 90% and it's not possible to consistently rebound above your normal rate.


-Pop was able to do that because Splitter was mobile enough to defend Derek Fisher on the perimeter.

No, he was able to do that because Fisher (and Sefolosha), are classic "hiders". Besides, I've always liked the idea, with limited offensive players, of giving them what appears to be an advantageous match-up. I want the Thunder to think about isolating him or having him run pick-and-roll in that match-up, for 2 reasons. 1) That's not his game, 2) That keeps the ball out of their scorers hands and can take them or the team in general out of rhythm.


-Another Pop move that worked was using Gary Neal at backup point guard. Offensively, Neal can create shots for himself -- and that in itself is valuable. When he's passing adequately and not in a me-first, me-only mode, he's useful. Tonight he was useful.

Agreed. They needed his ability to create and his confidence.


-The more I think of this win, the bigger it is and the more impressed I am. No Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili didn't play that well. Tim Duncan was solid but far, far from the top of his game. OKC, of course, was in perfect health. Yet the Spurs got a win thanks mostly to Leonard, Splitter and Green. A loss tonight would have been devastating to San Antonio's chances of getting the first seed in the West. With the win, the Spurs are still in the driver's seat -- especially if Parker can return from injury early.

That and they didn't shoot lights out from three. They shot just under their average, which is good obviously, but nothing that can't be consistently relied on.


-I still stick to my opinion that Joseph is the second best point guard on this team.

He is by default, because he's one of two true PG's. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the best man for the job though.


-But, really, at this point you'd hope Diaw would have figured out he has to be ready from his first minute. Let's hope that realization comes at some point before the playoffs.

If it hasn't in 10 years, it's not going to miraculously happen now. He is what he is. He'll up his overall aggression, but not in terms of pass-shoot.


-I'm going to bury this down here so it doesn't come off as I'm whining but holy hell do the Thunder get a lot of whistles in their favor. It's really unbelievable. Not even the Lakers have ever gotten this sort of whistle. They get a good five to ten borderline whistles to go their way. Then they get two or three totally bogus whistles. Subtract a few missed whistles on the other team and they are a damn difficult team to beat consistently. I don't believe in NBA conspiracy theories but I haven't yet figured out why OKC gets such a kind whistle.

They're the league's poster child for being able to form a contender in a small market. What about the Spurs, you say? The Spurs shunned the spotlight and don't have marketable stars to the ignorant masses. They're the opposite, so they're a perfect fit.

[timvp]

The Harden trade probably deserved a mention. I thought that was a terrible trade for the Thunder when it happened. Now it looks even more ridiculous. They ended up trading away Harden for like twenty cents on dollar. Mindboggling.

[CaptainLate]

--Another Pop move that worked was using Gary Neal at backup point guard. In his first few minutes on the court, I thought Neal looked bad. But he stuck to it and grinded out a solid showing. Neal is bad on defense -- but so is Patty Mills and Nando De Colo doesn't write back to France penning poems about his D either. Offensively, Neal can create shots for himself -- and that in itself is valuable. When he's passing adequately and not in a me-first, me-only mode, he's useful. Tonight he was useful...

-I don't think Cory Joseph especially helped his chances of staying in the rotation once Parker returns but he also didn't hurt his chances. I love his defense. And even if he's not doing much on offense, he still has a leadership quality about him that seems to help keep things organized. I still stick to my opinion that Joseph is the second best point guard on this team.


I agree re: CoJo being the 2nd best PG. Gary Neal may have been useful tonight, but if he returns/remains the backup PG it will spell disaster over the long haul. He is a small SG, not a ballhandling PG, and his "D" is very suspect. If Pop is not going to use a true PG as backup, then I'd rather have Manu there than GNeal. I believe if CoJo gets some solid PT before TP comes back that he will be able to prove himself. We have plenty of depth that can provide "O" Perhaps there will be times in the playoffs CoJo and GNeal can play together, but the team is better served using CoJo and his "D" than GNeal's "O".

[Poolboy5623]

I flipped when Westbrook got away with his travel....but now that I think of it ....in the nba if the ball is bobbled, they don't call the travel.

[Man In Black]

-Speaking of Splitter, a turning point in the first half was when Pop kept his big lineup on the court even though the Thunder went small. Pop was able to do that because Splitter was mobile enough to defend Derek Fisher on the perimeter. That's an almost unheard of cross-matchup but Splitter did well and it allowed Pop to win that game of chess.

Conversely, If the 5 has Duncan and Durant is the Stretch 4, he has to defend Splitter and Splitter can punish KD. Without Harden, they are more reliant on Westbrook to playmake and he is easily susceptible to being goaded into Hero Ball.

[tmtcsc]

I wish this win meant something other than one more "W" but it doesn't. OKC played terrible and they were tired. We played without Parker and we won't know how we stack up against OKC until he is healthy. Beat OKC convincingly in their building in April and it'll get my attention.

[Man In Black]

I flipped when Westbrook got away with his travel....but now that I think of it ....in the nba if the ball is bobbled, they don't call the travel.

He trapped the ball to his hip. That's a travel.

[Splits]

I flipped when Westbrook got away with his travel....but now that I think of it ....in the nba if the ball is bobbled, they don't call the travel.

There is not one official in the league who could watch that replay and not call that a travel. It was a blown call, the only question was whether it was a mistakenly blown call or intentional. You can't do that.

[spursmartyr]

There is not one official in the league who could watch that replay and not call that a travel. It was a blown call, the only question was whether it was a mistakenly blown call or intentional. You can't do that.

It was a mistaken intentional blown call. If the zebras had been smart they would have called that to make their agenda/stern's agenda seem just a tad less obvious, especially since the game was pretty much over by that time anyways.

[Pasta Batman]

-Another Pop move that worked was using Gary Neal at backup point guard. In his first few minutes on the court, I thought Neal looked bad. But he stuck to it and grinded out a solid showing. Neal is bad on defense -- but so is Patty Mills and Nando De Colo doesn't write back to France penning poems about his D either. Offensively, Neal can create shots for himself -- and that in itself is valuable. When he's passing adequately and not in a me-first, me-only mode, he's useful. Tonight he was useful.

If CJ wasn't in foul trouble, he would have gotten more time. I'd still take bigger minutes of CJ over Neal, especially since his D is so shitty. Manu and CJ is probably better than Manu and CJ if you take everything into consideration (not just offense).

[Splits]

It was a mistaken intentional blown call. If the zebras had been smart they would have called that to make their agenda/stern's agenda seem just a tad less obvious, especially since the game was pretty much over by that time anyways.

Honestly don't think they give a fuck about obviousness, the is always plausible deniability (I didn't see it) with the speed of the NBA.

[TMTTRIO]

I think it's time for Manu to stop playing so much and only use him occasionally.

[spursmartyr]

Honestly don't think they give a fuck about obviousness, the is always plausible deniability (I didn't see it) with the speed of the NBA.

Maybe if you're a casual or young fan of the sport, but you shouldn't be allowed to have a job as a supposedly fair ref if you haven't been watching the NBA for at least 15-20 years. It's not too hard to train your eyes to watch everything that goes on in the halfcourt (especially involving THE GUY WITH THE BALL) with a few years of experience.

[spursmartyr]

Disagree that it is anti-Spur conspiracy. I've watched quite a few OKC games this year and it happens repeatedly, against all of their opponents.

You read half my post. Half is anti-Spurs, the other half is pro-OKC, Stern backing up his zionist forcing of the Sonics out of Seattle.

Bottom line: OKC is a shit city whose economy is driven by meth, useless construction, and faggotry. The soil there is red from the menstrual flow of their wannabe basketball team, its effeminate "superstar", and all of its fans. The shithole of a city doesn't deserve a pro sports team.

[Brunodf]

I think it's time for Manu to stop playing so much and only use him occasionally.
I think he should play more but handle the ball less, he is the best corner shooter on the team...

[admiralfats]

-And then there was Tiago Splitter. If we're being blunt, he was soft, choked and sucked simultaneously last year in the WCF. Tonight, he was a beast. He was by far the best bigman on the court, in fact. If he can play like he did tonight consistently, the Thunder suddenly don't matchup very well against the Spurs.

this. i was thinking this watching tiago tonight. he keeps serge at home a little bit more, and ibaka really can't get up there and block shots the way he uses his body.

[John B]

Splitter and Kawhi need to remain agressive. I love just how they continue to demand the ball. Now if only they play Baynes instead of Blair

[chapnis]

this. i was thinking this watching tiago tonight. he keeps serge at home a little bit more, and ibaka really can't get up there and block shots the way he uses his body.

He uses the rim and backboard to protect his shot quite often

[pookenstein]

-It was great to see Danny Green do so well against the Thunder. He looks like a totally different player than the green, wide-eyed imposter who roamed the court in his jersey last June. We talk a lot about Leonard's development but Green is right there too. On consecutive plays he utilized a pump-fake to create open space for a three-pointer and then pulled up for a three in transition. Those six points were huge and created the momentum for San Antonio to dig themselves out of the early hole. The rest of the way, Green played very well in just about every possible category. Let us hope he keeps it up.

I think the first of his consecutive threes was some kind of a wake up call and the second one a turning point for the team. I hope he remembers these plays in the Postseason.

[Bruno]

While I'm also not a believer in NBA conspiracies, the whole OKC situation is troubling.

Stern and Clay Bennett are great friends. To me, that's a conflict of interest. I don't think a single second that Stern is giving some kind of instructions to help Thunder but the human nature pushes NBA employees to please their boss even without realizing it.

When Abaka punches Griffin in the nuts and isn't suspended, I can't rule out that the NBA discipline committee had in their mind "let's not be too harsh with Abaka because he is a member of the Thunder, a franchise our boss likes".

It's the same thing with some NBA refs, they know they are being constantly evaluated and that if they make an error in favor of OKC, it would be less a problem that an error in favor of Spurs because Stern likes OKC.

[timvp]

Then you must not know this team very well. Cool story. Surely you can link me to a post where you said this was an obvious Spurs win before the game. TIA.


it's not possible to consistently rebound above your normal rate.
:lol Sig worthy. :tu

[timvp]

While I'm also not a believer in NBA conspiracies, the whole OKC situation is troubling.

Stern and Clay Bennett are great friends. To me, that's a conflict of interest. I don't think a single second that Stern is giving some kind of instructions to help Thunder but the human nature pushes NBA employees to please their boss even without realizing it.

When Abaka punches Griffin in the nuts and isn't suspended, I can't rule out that the NBA discipline committee had in their mind "let's not be too harsh with Abaka because he is a member of the Thunder, a franchise our boss likes".

It's the same thing with some NBA refs, they know they are being constantly evaluated and that if they make an error in favor of OKC, it would be less a problem that an error in favor of Spurs because Stern likes OKC.

Yeah, I don't believe in conspiracies or even the pseudo conspiracy you laid out ....... but something is going on. To beat OKC, a team has to overcome between 5 to 10 horrendous calls. I've never seen anything like it.

Though, yeah, Stern and Bennett literally being best friends doesn't help conspiracy theory debunkers such as myself.

[Splits]

The NBA has already been implicated in these exact types of conspiracies within the past 10 years. Maybe people don't like the word "conspiracy" but please read this and tell me what else to call these allegations:


learned from Referee A that Referees A and F wanted to extend the series to seven games. Tim knew Referees A and F to be 'company men', always acting in the interest of the NBA, and that night, it was in the NBA's interest to add another game to the series.


top executives of the NBA sought to manipulate games using referees

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/080610/donaghy03.pdf

Do all the people falling into the non-conspiracy camp believe Tim Donaghy is a liar? Or that the 2002 Lakers/Kings series was not fixed? It's your prerogative to ignore the overwhelming evidence, but to me that's just naive. And if it has happened once it has happened again and most likely continues to happen since nobody has ever paid a price for it, but only made themselves obscenely rich.

[Bruno]

For reference, that's what Bennett emailed to Stern during the SonicsGate (I already posted it in another thread a couple of days ago):


you know how I feel about our relationship both personally and professionally. You are among a very few, notwithstanding our relative brief actual physical time together that have significantly affected my life. I view you as a role model as an extraordinarily gifted executive, a deep and compassionate thinker, and a person with a rare and unique charisma that brings out the best in everyone you touch. You are just one of my favorite people on earth and I so cherish our relationship

[freetiago]

actually Abaka seems to consistently rebound above his averages vs SA
something SA needs to clean up
contenders still have guys who can outrebound SA

[racm]

Yeah, I don't believe in conspiracies or even the pseudo conspiracy you laid out ....... but something is going on. To beat OKC, a team has to overcome between 5 to 10 horrendous calls. I've never seen anything like it.

Though, yeah, Stern and Bennett literally being best friends doesn't help conspiracy theory debunkers such as myself.

Cue Sunsfan pointing out that Holt has generally been on Stern's good side yada yada.

Completely negated by Pop acting like a Euro team club manager rather than a regular patsy coach, though.

[MR-Clutch]

Some thoughts from another thread.


I think the spurs took some notes from the heat. They were playing rough defense on durant,and harassed him every time he had the ball, even at half court. They were frustrating him, and made him make a lot of decisions with the ball.



With each passing game, Kawhi continues to make me question what his ceiling is. His dribbling,jumpshot, and fundamentals just looked so fluid and he's becoming more confident each game. I find myself constantly wanting the ball in his hands just to see how much of much of load he can carry us on offense. I honestly believe he has the talent, smarts, and work ethic to be a top 10-20 player in this league.


If we beat OKC in a series it's going to be because the medium 3 step up to the spotlight.

I think we can all agree thats time to unleash the beast that is Kawhi Leonard.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you believe in 'stars' getting calls then you believe in an NBA conspiracy. It obviously skews towards teams with 'stars' like OKC or the Heat and hinders good teams like Denver or Indy. That is pretty much a given.

I think it's not about whether the NBA officiating skews calls towards a group but rather what the group is. Is it just Lebron and Durant or is it also Miami and OKC as well?

[Capt Bringdown]

I believe that it's imperative that Pop (and everyone else for that matter) makes it a point to keep Leonard highly involved going forward. For the Spurs to win a championship, he might have to turn into a star this season. The only way that happens is if he keeps getting fed.


He (Tiago) was by far the best bigman on the court, in fact. If he can play like he did tonight consistently, the Thunder suddenly don't matchup very well against the Spurs.

Great points on which I'm hanging my hopes for the post-season. What else is there that's different from last season? Hopefully the Big 3 can hang tough and Tiago and Leonard can turn the corner and make a difference, right now.


...a turning point in the first half was when Pop kept his big lineup on the court even though the Thunder went small.

Another hopeful moment that I pray we build on rather than letting it get lost in the fog of Pop's game-to-game tinkerings.

[hater]

Its a 50-50 series vs okc regardles of home court. That thanks to d harden trade. Thank d lord for d harden trade

[crc21209]

What a truly awesome game to see live. I purchased these tickets back in January, so when TP went down recently I was pissed that I wasnt going to see a 100% healthy Spurs team against the Thunder. But, the guys in silver and black STILL pulled it off. Here are some observations I witnessed up close and personal tonight:

1. As timvp already stated, the reason we won tonight was because of Splitter, Leonard, and Green. Tim played well, but not at an elite level. Manu was decent, but nowhere near the level we need him to be at...

2. When the Thunder pulled out to a 12-14 point lead in the 1st. I thought we were screwed. Especially with all the calls that OKC gets. Once OKC jumped out to that lead, Pop used an "interesting" lineup of all bench players with Neal, Manu, Jack, Blair, and Diaw. I thought this lineup was going to be an epic fail but these guys brought some energy and helped slow OKC's momentum a bit.

3. Once Neal checked in and I saw him matched up against Westbrook, I thought Pop was nuts. But like timvp said, maybe it was a secret Pop move to try and force Westbrook into hero mode, which may actually benefit the Spurs. While Neal's D isnt anything to brag about, he actually brought some energy om the offensive side of the ball, which we hadn't seen for awhile.

4. Kawhi Leonard is AWESOME to watch in person. He plays his heart out on the defensive end. While he may not be able to stop Durant, he can sure make it tough on him. I love the way Kawhi played on the offensive tonight. He wasn't TOO aggresive, but he was smart and made plays when he needed to. I wanna see him get more touches and more plays run for him. He could be a HUGE piece to making a deep run this year..

5. Splitter and Green were HUGE tonight. Splitter was throwing all kinds of moves in the post against Ibaka, and they worked. Tiago isnt the same player from last year at all. He's taken his game to another level and looks really confident. Green also looked like a different player compared to last year's WCF. He fought hard on the defensive end, didn't let his man get too far from him, and he made some huge 3's in the 2nd qtr when the Spurs made their comeback.

6. Jack played pretty well in my eyes. He does things that don't show up in the box score (ex. Forcing Durant into a backcourt violation). He was solid on D and always brings just the right amount of toughness and physical play to the game. You can tell he's a passionate player who has love for the game and wants to win. He was the one urging the crowd on to make more noise in the 2nd qtr when the Spurs were mounting their comeback.

7. The Thunder are going to miss Harden when the games matter the most. Westbrook is a very good talent, he just isnt a true point guard. At times he would bring the ball up and not even look Durant's way. When Westbrook has his mind made up that he's going to shoot the ball, there isn't a person who is going to change his way of thinking. I think Harden was the main X factor that killed us last year. He's a dual threat who can take the ball to the hole and score at will, and also break down the defense and find the open man. You can tell the Thunder are missing that aspect to their team now...

8. I always knew the Thunder got a "favorable" whistle, but DAMN they get some crazy stupid calls. Westbrook knows all he has to do is drive into the paint, throw his body into the defender, and he'll get the call. It's annoying, and kind of a pussified way of playing ball if you ask me. I feel that half the time Durant and Westbrook are only looking to get the whistle and don't even really think about making the shot. They easily got 7-8 questionable calls tonight, and 5-6 that were blatantly in the favor. (Ex. Dutant dribbling into Kawhi as he's sliding his feet into good defensive position.

9. The crowd was jacked tonight and really into the game from the opening tip off. Great game to be at..:tu

[hater]

Manu was attrocious. When u get stared down by parker in a suit you know you are fucking up

[DJR210]

The Harden trade probably deserved a mention. I thought that was a terrible trade for the Thunder when it happened. Now it looks even more ridiculous. They ended up trading away Harden for like twenty cents on dollar. Mindboggling.

First bad move by Presti TBH.

[HI-FI]

Damn, so happy we won this. I've been overseas but checking in here to see what's up. Thanks for write ups timvp. Sounds like Manu is giving us a better contract next time because of his continued dropoff, sorry Nono. I am near the lands of you and manus forefathers so sorry for Mexican jokes.

great to hear kawhi is blooming before our eyes. as for his midrange moves, having massive hands has some real advantages.
While I'm also not a believer in NBA conspiracies, the whole OKC situation is troubling.

Stern and Clay Bennett are great friends. To me, that's a conflict of interest. I don't think a single second that Stern is giving some kind of instructions to help Thunder but the human nature pushes NBA employees to please their boss even without realizing it.

When Abaka punches Griffin in the nuts and isn't suspended, I can't rule out that the NBA discipline committee had in their mind "let's not be too harsh with Abaka because he is a member of the Thunder, a franchise our boss likes".

It's the same thing with some NBA refs, they know they are being constantly evaluated and that if they make an error in favor of OKC, it would be less a problem that an error in favor of Spurs because Stern likes OKC.
Bruno, u think it could be that stern really shit the bed by moving a team out of Seattle to a smaller market, therefore he wants to justify his decision? That or he wants to make Durant into next household figure. But something is clearly going on with the officiating.

[therealtruth]

Everyone shouldn't forget that the Thunder were playing their 4th in 5 nights with all but one being an away game. I think Pop should start developing Baynes for the possibility of TD or Splitter getting in foul trouble in the playoffs. I have zero confidence in Blair/Bonner being able to help for even a few minutes in a crucial playoff game.

[BatManu20]

Great win tbh. Gotta give em credit considering how bad it looked early. But we still have a lot to improve on.. rebounding especially. We can't give up that many offensive rebounds come playoffs.

[therealtruth]

First bad move by Presti TBH.

He did the best giving that the owners didn't want to pay Harden the max.

[Obstructed_View]

Everyone shouldn't forget that the Thunder were playing their 4th in 5 nights with all but one being an away game. I think Pop should start developing Baynes for the possibility of TD or Splitter getting in foul trouble in the playoffs. I have zero confidence in Blair/Bonner being able to help for even a few minutes in a crucial playoff game.

The Spurs were missing their best player.

[silverblk mystix]

Great read from timvp. Spot on.

I have two thoughts;

#1) The time when Green hit a couple of threes, Splitter making a great pass to Kawhi for a 3 while Fisher tried to sneak behind him - followed by the Kawhi steal and left handed dunk - was the best little stretch of Spurs ball all year.

#2) This Pop - hasn't been seen much. Pop was in a fiery mood and Pop was one of the most "competitive" spurs all night. If this Pop shows up in the playoffs - I like the Spurs chances. I am his biggest critic - but I call em like I see em - and Pop's fire was necessary to the rest of the team - and forced them to compete.
Not matching up small to OKC - was the Pop that had also been missing. Great job last night by Pop.

[HarlemHeat37]

If you believe in 'stars' getting calls then you believe in an NBA conspiracy. It obviously skews towards teams with 'stars' like OKC or the Heat and hinders good teams like Denver or Indy. That is pretty much a given.

I think it's not about whether the NBA officiating skews calls towards a group but rather what the group is. Is it just Lebron and Durant or is it also Miami and OKC as well?

Miami is 18th in the NBA in FTAs and they are 10th in FTAs allowed..

Denver gets a ton of calls and Indiana is known to get away with murder on the defensive end due to reputation, similar to the Bulls of the past few years..

Poor argument, tbh..

[capek]

Only thing better than watching a great Spurs win is reading timvp's random thoughts after watching a great Spurs win. :tu

Gotta agree on Kawhi, he might have had one pedestrian made basket, but like 7 of his 8 baskets ranged from "wow" to "jaw dropping." I remember after the Chicago game w/o the Big 3, I like everyone else was excited at the prospect that Kawhi might have earned a larger role on offense. Well, the last few games it's been clear that Pop has given the green light there, but holy shit some of the stuff Kawhi has shown, I wouldn't have expected in my wildest dreams, that he'd be able to do some of that stuff so soon. Those face up iso jumpers, and turn around jumpers of his are definitely superstar potential. So excited to see where he'll be in his development by the end of the season.

[polandprzem]

Too bad OKC were in 2nd b2b game. It does not give us precise measure of the matchup esp when OKC rely on athleticism that much.

Pop really wanted this game bad as he was coaching from the sidelines as crazy Pop of young

Those whistles were strange as hell and it does not have anything to do with the speed of a players. Because it happened all of frickin sudden just when the spurs gained that big of a lead. I believe in such sick refereeing to keep teams in competitive state that is causes me to wave my hand and says it's not worth watching that bullshit.
Come on - at one stage of the game it was all FT, GMAFB! will ya NBA?


All in all good game but if not for Green I don't know if spurs would get a spark from anybody else

[temujin]

For reference, that's what Bennett emailed to Stern during the SonicsGate (I already posted it in another thread a couple of days ago):

If Timvp and Bruno bring up conspiracy (which I call business) "theories" after a win,
I know it is time to "worry".
Not sure about Bennet/Stern or Presti, though.

All I know is that Durant is a very marketable superstar and he will get his ring(s), sooner or later.

[polandprzem]

And btw Kawhi was not satisfied with this game. YOu could see him going into the locker room shaking his head

[hater]

I don't understand spursfan bringin up the refs after this game. Refs were surprisingly calling lot of fauls against Durant/perk/african officer/chimp. I don't think they called that many fouls against them in any game in the entire series last year.

[shazork]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.

[Pop]

Everyone shouldn't forget that the Thunder were playing their 4th in 5 nights with all but one being an away game. I think Pop should start developing Baynes for the possibility of TD or Splitter getting in foul trouble in the playoffs. I have zero confidence in Blair/Bonner being able to help for even a few minutes in a crucial playoff game.

Exactly, everyone is getting too excited, same people that says that Spurs losses on b2b vs elite teams mean nothing when it's a 4 game in 5 night for the Thunder lol. If that was the Spurs, thread bitching about the schedule with conspiracy theories would have been started.

[NASpurs]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.

Your join date is of 2005 and THAT which you mentioned is bothering you? Make sure to never set foot in the NBA forum then.

[shazork]

so your reaction is that i don't post enough

[callo1]

1- Pop Should have played CoJo 40 minutes(Lilard was just 4-10 in 22 minutes vs CoJo).
2- Took Tiago out (just 3 fouls) with 7 minutes left in the 3rd, scoreboard was 64-63(7-6 in the quarter), Blazers scored 26 points to end the quarter.
3- Started the 4th with Bonner/Diaw(Spurs was down by 8), Blazers scored 7-0 in 54 seconds and the game was over.

Thanks for the "random thoughts"

That is the way I saw it as well.

[silverblk mystix]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.


Every group is hated on here. No one bats an eye.

[exstatic]

The Harden trade probably deserved a mention. I thought that was a terrible trade for the Thunder when it happened. Now it looks even more ridiculous. They ended up trading away Harden for like twenty cents on dollar. Mindboggling.

I thought since the day it went down that the Thunder traded the wrong guard.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Miami is 18th in the NBA in FTAs and they are 10th in FTAs allowed..

Denver gets a ton of calls and Indiana is known to get away with murder on the defensive end due to reputation, similar to the Bulls of the past few years..

Poor argument, tbh..

My point was that it's a given that there is star treatment. I was curious as to whether or not that extended to teams as a whole. Do you not think that star treatment is a reality?

[exstatic]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.

tbh, he's such a d-bag, a lot of people have him on ignore, and a lot of the rest scroll right past his hourly excrescences.

[Chinook]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.

Some of us actually believe in free speech. We just ignore things we don't like, because really, many of us can appreciate that this forum has really lax rules.

[jag]

Couldn't even get through the first page without TD 21's obligatory wall of text that no one wants to read.

[Strategic]

While I'm also not a believer in NBA conspiracies, the whole OKC situation is troubling.

Stern and Clay Bennett are great friends. To me, that's a conflict of interest. I don't think a single second that Stern is giving some kind of instructions to help Thunder but the human nature pushes NBA employees to please their boss even without realizing it.

When Abaka punches Griffin in the nuts and isn't suspended, I can't rule out that the NBA discipline committee had in their mind "let's not be too harsh with Abaka because he is a member of the Thunder, a franchise our boss likes".

It's the same thing with some NBA refs, they know they are being constantly evaluated and that if they make an error in favor of OKC, it would be less a problem that an error in favor of Spurs because Stern likes OKC.I'm sure you know that Clay Bennett is the son-in-law/grandson-in-law of the Edward Gaylord media "dynasty". The Gaylords have attempted to buy teams, the Texas Rangers for one(this sale was blocked due to no small part by Jerry Reinsdorf), over the years. I think the web becomes very tangled among these players. Or it could just be that Gaylord is handing out Grand Ole Opry tickets to these "red neck" refs. Maybe Holt should be countering the Gaylord/Bennett types with a treat of his own, say catepillar operator for a day. That should be more appealing to a real man.

As for Cory Joseph I think he has become a nice #2 candidate. He is the "anti" Neal. He doesn't jack hero balls, he doesn't turn it over much and he plays solid defense. Between Gary Neal and Cory Joseph, maybe De Colo and Mills have been pushed toward the end of the bench?

[therealtruth]

The Spurs were missing their best player.

If TP played that would have likely taken touches from KL and Tiago who were our best players.

[thispego]

For reference, that's what Bennett emailed to Stern during the SonicsGate (I already posted it in another thread a couple of days ago):

are we sure they're just 'friends'?

[Homeland Security]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.
Well, somebody could refer to Stern as a "smarmy, megalomaniacal, corrupt, media-savvy money-grubbing power broker who despite running a cabal holds himself up as an ethical exemplar," but "jew" is much more concise.

[Brunodf]

I don't understand spursfan bringin up the refs after this game. Refs were surprisingly calling lot of fauls against Durant/perk/african officer/chimp. I don't think they called that many fouls against them in any game in the entire series last year.
Refs called 3-4 straight bs fouls in the end of the game

[Bruno]

Bruno, u think it could be that stern really shit the bed by moving a team out of Seattle to a smaller market, therefore he wants to justify his decision? That or he wants to make Durant into next household figure. But something is clearly going on with the officiating.

I highly doubt Stern is doing some kind of behind the scene work to help OKC. I just don't believe in these conspiracy theories.

I'm convinced NBA referees aren't crooked but they are humans. While their first goal is to call the game fair, they surely want to keep their job. They also know that Stern, their boss, likes Thunder. Is it possible that referees think, even if it's only at the back of their minds, that making a mistake helping Thunder is less problematic for them that making a mistake helping another team because Stern will be less upset by it?
I don't have the answer but it's possible like it's possible that it was also true few seasons ago for the Lakers.

[K-State Spur]

Too bad OKC were in 2nd b2b game. It does not give us precise measure of the matchup esp when OKC rely on athleticism that much.

Not about a measuring stick - any game without TP serves no purpose in previewing playoff match-up. It's about gaining a little bit of breathing room for home court over them until Tony gets back.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

are we sure they're just 'friends'?

I was thinking the same thing.

[urunobili]

Refs called 3-4 straight bs fouls in the end of the game
Point differential gambling issues?

[EVAY]

There seems to be a consensus that the game was won by Green, Splitter and Leonard, and I agree with that. I would go further and say that it was won in spite of Duncan. I have a hard time with the consistently above-performance grades and evaluations that Tim gets from Timvp.

Cojo was acceptable but no more than that. Manu was up and down, a pattern that has become consistent of late. Diaw was better than he was credit for.

[polandprzem]

Not about a measuring stick - any game without TP serves no purpose in previewing playoff match-up. It's about gaining a little bit of breathing room for home court over them until Tony gets back.

Yea but just not get too much from this game

Let's see the game at Oklahoma April $th 2nd b2b for us and 4th game in 5 nights. Tired team always gives better sight at how they gonna present themselves in the PO

[Bruno]

Regarding the Harden trade, what makes it hard to understand is that Thunder could have easily keep him with a max extension and stay under the tax by using the amnesty on Perkins this summer. Maybe Thunder ownership is cheap and hasn't allowed a future use of the amnesty on Perkins, maybe Presti made an evaluation mistake. I'm not sure but the financial reasons behind that trade aren't just that obvious.

[phxspurfan]

-Speaking of Splitter, a turning point in the first half was when Pop kept his big lineup on the court even though the Thunder went small. Pop was able to do that because Splitter was mobile enough to defend Derek Fisher on the perimeter. That's an almost unheard of cross-matchup but Splitter did well and it allowed Pop to win that game of chess.

For a second I saw Splitter guarding Fisher and was like wtf? Then I realized there were no other bigs on the floor for Splitter to guard. Interesting move indeed.

[EricB]

The Harden trade probably deserved a mention. I thought that was a terrible trade for the Thunder when it happened. Now it looks even more ridiculous. They ended up trading away Harden for like twenty cents on dollar. Mindboggling.

makes the "Sefolosha on Parker" move impossible.

[mrjap2x]

Regarding the Harden trade, what makes it hard to understand is that Thunder could have easily keep him with a max extension and stay under the tax by using the amnesty on Perkins this summer. Maybe Thunder ownership is cheap and hasn't allowed a future use of the amnesty on Perkins, maybe Presti made an evaluation mistake. I'm not sure but the financial reasons behind that trade aren't just that obvious.

This would have made sense if the lakers were still the favorites. Maybe they thought the lakers will be a force to reckoned with dwight on board.

[Fabbs]

To beat OKC, a team has to overcome between 5 to 10 horrendous calls. I've never seen anything like it.
Watched many Laker playoff games 1999-2012?

[Fabbs]

If TP played that would have likely taken touches from KL and Tiago who were our best players.
co sign

[Samr.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGkDUTeOfd0&feature=player_embedded

Speaking of Neal giving westbrook 5 feet of cushion at all times.

[pgardn]

Tiago was awesome.

Best game he has ever had IMO. He bailed Tim out!

He bullied Ibaka. He finessed Perkins. He played exactly to his strengths and others weaknesses. He missed some longer rebounds and could have had a better defensive game inside. Still room for growth. Dare I say he is becoming SMART big man?

The improvement in his game is right up there with Leonard. Now, for the consistency.

[mercos]

I really thought the Spurs were cooked after the first quarter. They showed a lot of heart coming back against the defending conference champions who ousted them last year, especially after getting spanked by Portland in their last game. The win was even more impressive considering it was keyed by role players (Splitter, Leonard, and Green). The Spurs title chances are going to hinge on whether those three can elevate their game in the playoffs like they did last night. If they do, I don't believe OKC can beat San Antonio.

The defense was the difference compared to last season's back door sweep in the conference finals. The Spurs were aggressive as hell, netting several steals and making life difficult for OKC on offense all night long. As timvp stated, the Spurs strategy seems to be goading Westbrook into shooting as much as possible. They did the same thing last year, and he seems to shoot poorly against the Spurs frequently. I don't think they can beat the Spurs with Westbrook leading the way.

The Spurs need to go to Splitter in the post more often. His post moves are improving, and he has great court vision. No idea what the percentages are, but it seems like every time they dump the ball into the post with Splitter it leads to a score or a really good shot attempt. Splitter is one of the best passing big men in the league. With Parker out, he should be utilized more.

Leonard needs more touches as well. The Spurs are not an iso team, but when the offense breaks down I'd rather have the ball in his hands than anyone else with Parker gone. He can get his shot whenever he wants at this point, and though his shooting accuracy still needs some improvement, I'll take my chances with him anytime.

[Strategic]

Or we could give Presti credit for getting "Kevin There is no chance you got a Hard(en) on when you got me Martin"? This trade could go down in Western Conference history. Hopefully Harden doesn't come back and bite the Spurs in the division some time soon.

[spurspokesman]

Yeah, I don't believe in conspiracies or even the pseudo conspiracy you laid out ....... but something is going on. To beat OKC, a team has to overcome between 5 to 10 horrendous calls. I've never seen anything like it.

Though, yeah, Stern and Bennett literally being best friends doesn't help conspiracy theory debunkers such as myself.

Flashbacks of WCF game 6. Smfh

[Mugen]

Good read, thanks timvp.


Couldn't even get through the first page without TD 21's obligatory wall of text that no one wants to read.

+1 tbh.

How about Tiago doin' work on these mouthbreeders, Jaggy? While the CoP and CoM are catfightin', the Church of The Golden God continues to rise :cry

[rjv]

my thoughts are this-portland was an anomaly-much as the time the spurs destroyed portland in portland during the season that robinson was out. the blazers were the team that has nothing to lose and just threw up garbage and it all went in. the 4th was a complete shut down. the spurs just stopped playing.

as i mentioned in another thread-what thrills me about this win is it shows us what the future holds. the biggest reason we won last night was because of all of our younger players-green, joseph, splitter and leonard. add a future free agent to that mix down the road and the future looks solid.

[Hoops Czar]

Thw Thunder were a step slower all night. That's basically what happens when you play your 4th game in 5 nights.

[boutons_deux]

mouthbreeders

:lol

[wildbill2u]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.

You have to blame the owners of the site. They have chosen to run it with virtually no rules or discipline of posters, presumably so they won't drive some posters away. So the fringe element is drawn here because they can use the anonymnity of usernames to carry out their teenage fantasies of shocking the adults in the room. One guy actually posted a video of a naked skateboarder defecating in a public street. That finally got removed, but it took a few days so apparently that represents the outer limit of the permissible along with actual XXX photos. Still, you probably wouldn't want your child on this site.

Despite all the objectionable aspects, this is probably the best site for discussions about Spurs basketball since there are a few really good posters who know basketball. You just have to tone your moral principles down in order to participate. Think of it as the dilemma of what to do if your wife accidentally drops her wedding ring down into the pit of a privy.

Personally I think it would be stopped if some of the prominent members got together and agreed that the owners should make and enforce some rules against racist epithets, and obscene/scatological flame remarks. I don't see how some people need them to discuss basketball.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Kawhi's improved ball-handling and scoring/running the fast break are very noticable when you compare it to earlier this season. It was more likely that he turn it over rather than score when on a fast break.

[TheGoldStandard]

Gary Neal back in the line up was not a good thing, he made multiple mistakes with the ball in his hands as the PG its only when he catches the ball off screens or penetration that he is effective. Still think Mills should get the nod when Manu is on the floor with the second team.

[TheSkeptic]

You have to blame the owners of the site. They have chosen to run it with virtually no rules or discipline of posters, presumably so they won't drive some posters away. So the fringe element is drawn here because they can use the anonymnity of usernames to carry out their teenage fantasies of shocking the adults in the room. One guy actually posted a video of a naked skateboarder defecating in a public street. That finally got removed, but it took a few days so apparently that represents the outer limit of the permissible along with actual XXX photos. Still, you probably wouldn't want your child on this site.

Despite all the objectionable aspects, this is probably the best site for discussions about Spurs basketball since there are a few really good posters who know basketball. You just have to tone your moral principles down in order to participate. Think of it as the dilemma of what to do if your wife accidentally drops her wedding ring down into the pit of a privy.

Personally I think it would be stopped if some of the prominent members got together and agreed that the owners should make and enforce some rules against racist epithets, and obscene/scatological flame remarks. I don't see how some people need them to discuss basketball.

I completely agree with this. I missed the specific post in question because, frankly, I've stopped reading spursmartyr's posts, but I think that posters get away with way too much. Racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, etc. Pick your "ism" and you'll probably find it here. The NBA forum is virtually unreadable at points and upstairs is also starting to suffer as well.

On the one hand I like that the loose moderation means that we don't have to maintain an air of forced positivity all the time. People like myself can criticize Bonner, Blair, or Pop as vociferously as we like and there's no risk for getting banned. But there does need to be limits because as we've seen in the case of the one poster you're replying to, that hostility towards minorities and whoever else has been "otherized" so to speak makes people feel uneasy about this site. Speaking as a woman who's also a visible minority (and an immigrant to boot), I know that I don't really go downstairs or to the other forums anymore because I'm uncomfortable with what I've seen there.

But like you said, it's a catch-22. You really can't go anywhere else to talk Spurs basketball because this site has pretty much all the discussion. That said, I do appreciate what the site owners have done in making SpursTalk and they seem like lovely people. What I've tried to do is utilize the Ignore List more, but I mean, it's pretty ridiculous that I'm using the Ignore List more because of these issues than because of poor basketball opinions or whatever.

[jag]

Good read, thanks timvp.



+1 tbh.

How about Tiago doin' work on these mouthbreeders, Jaggy? While the CoP and CoM are catfightin', the Church of The Golden God continues to rise :cry

It's criminal what Pop did to him last year. Criminal, I said!! Pop should have spent last season forcing Tiago to learn how to play next to Tim. I've thought for a while now that they should run the offense more through Tiago. Even when he's not scoring, he makes great plays with his passing and he draws a surprising amount of double teams when he starts backing his man down.

[TD 21]

Cool story. Surely you can link me to a post where you said this was an obvious Spurs win before the game. TIA.

:lol Pulling the, if-you-didn't-post-it-on-my-board-beforehand-then-it-didn't-happen card.

Unfortunately, something came up and I was unable to post before the game yesterday. It's too bad, because I was going to make a bold proclamation in the Spurs loss cop out (or whatever it's called) thread.

Whether you believe that or not, I don't care . . . but it's not as if I've ever been shy about making predictions nor do I have a reputation of being a liar.

[TheGoldStandard]

It's criminal what Pop did to him last year. Criminal, I said!! Pop should have spent last season forcing Tiago to learn how to play next to Tim. I've thought for a while now that they should run the offense more through Tiago. Even when he's not scoring, he makes great plays with his passing and he draws a surprising amount of double teams when he starts backing his man down.

Tiago has shown that he does have potential to be consistent in the post and can make the pass to the open defender when they come to double him. If we can continue to play this way with both Tim and Tiago on the court at the same time we're going to have a very productive front court when the playoffs start. This method really works in the slowed pace of the playoffs.

[DesignatedT]

Nice read.

I'm still pretty torn in regards to Neal/Joseph. If Neal is consistently hitting his jumper it's hard to sit him. He's proved he can hit big shots on the biggest stage. If OKC is the matchup I don't mind playing Neal whenever Fisher is out there. I really like Joseph as well and his offense seems better then advertised. He runs the offense well but I'm not so sure how much better he is at creating for others compared to Gary. Gary can do a pretty fine job at it at times.

[Dro210]

I really liked Pop bringing in Jack and Blair early when we were looking bad. I feel they provided a huge spark that turned the game around just by making a couple energy plays and really going hard defensively in that shot stretch. That something you noticed too timvp?

I've always felt Blair can make a difference against OKC, even, maybe even especially so, in an extremely short stretch like that.

[Mugen]

It's criminal what Pop did to him last year. Criminal, I said!! Pop should have spent last season forcing Tiago to learn how to play next to Tim. I've thought for a while now that they should run the offense more through Tiago. Even when he's not scoring, he makes great plays with his passing and he draws a surprising amount of double teams when he starts backing his man down.

http://i.minus.com/ijtbcG.gif

[SpurYank]

Yeah, Timvp, but what have you got to say about all the THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! Spurs fans in S.A. I don't remember even ONE YEAR when I didn't hear the same whining that I read this past Saturday. Everyone should remember that almost all NBA team lose minimally 25 times each year.

Stuff happens.

[Brunodf]

Nice read.

I'm still pretty torn in regards to Neal/Joseph. If Neal is consistently hitting his jumper it's hard to sit him. He's proved he can hit big shots on the biggest stage. If OKC is the matchup I don't mind playing Neal whenever Fisher is out there. I really like Joseph as well and his offense seems better then advertised. He runs the offense well but I'm not so sure how much better he is at creating for others compared to Gary. Gary can do a pretty fine job at it at times.

Short memory

[DesignatedT]

Fisher is done. Looking at him out there last night has confirmed my belief in that.

[Brunodf]

Fisher is done. Looking at him out there last night has confirmed my belief in that.
People said the same thing last season, i would rather have Splitter on Fisher and play big.

[cd021]

1- Pop Should have played CoJo 40 minutes(Lilard was just 4-10 in 22 minutes vs CoJo).
2- Took Tiago out (just 3 fouls) with 7 minutes left in the 3rd, scoreboard was 64-63(7-6 in the quarter), Blazers scored 26 points to end the quarter.
3- Started the 4th with Bonner/Diaw(Spurs was down by 8), Blazers scored 7-0 in 54 seconds and the game was over.

Thanks for the "random thoughts"

Man Kawhi is keeping you busy Having to change your G.I.Fs after every other game now.

[DesignatedT]

People said the same thing last season, i would rather have Splitter on Fisher and play big.

Lol well yeah, I'm not talking about 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter. I'm talking about when Fisher is playing backup PG then Neal can play a few minutes without being exposed.

[cd021]

I really liked Pop bringing in Jack and Blair early when we were looking bad. I feel they provided a huge spark that turned the game around just by making a couple energy plays and really going hard defensively in that shot stretch. That something you noticed too timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)?

I've always felt Blair can make a difference against OKC, even, maybe even especially so, in an extremely short stretch like that.

I like him against their second unit. Collison is one of the better P&R defenders in the NBA. Blair is capable of maneuvering around him to get to the rim. Something that Splitter didn't do well. Once Collision met him under the rim Splitter looked to pass.

[Brunodf]

Man Kawhi is keeping you busy Having to change your G.I.Fs after every other game now.
What can i say, kid is great:worthy:.

[TheSkeptic]

Tiago has shown that he does have potential to be consistent in the post and can make the pass to the open defender when they come to double him. If we can continue to play this way with both Tim and Tiago on the court at the same time we're going to have a very productive front court when the playoffs start. This method really works in the slowed pace of the playoffs.

True. Earlier this season I had thought that the weight loss was making it difficult for him in the post and had pretty much given up on the offensive variation part. But he's figured it out. If you look at his Synergy Stats, his stats in the post look good. 1.01 PPP on 50.8% which is good for 10th. That said, he hasn't taken that many post attempts on the season (80) and it accounts for only about 13.4% of his offense.

Kawhi also has good numbers in the post but I can't say too much about that because I don't like to extrapolate too much on less than 50 or 60 attempts. I think it can't hurt to let him try it though.

[Pasta Batman]

Nice read.

I'm still pretty torn in regards to Neal/Joseph. If Neal is consistently hitting his jumper it's hard to sit him. He's proved he can hit big shots on the biggest stage. If OKC is the matchup I don't mind playing Neal whenever Fisher is out there. I really like Joseph as well and his offense seems better then advertised. He runs the offense well but I'm not so sure how much better he is at creating for others compared to Gary. Gary can do a pretty fine job at it at times.

History more often shows that Neal sucks against athletic teams like OKC and LAC. He should see limited minutes. He got lucky that Westbrook's shot was off. It's still better to let him shoot, but CJ is much better equipped to give him a harder time, once Parker is back. Neal should see limited time against teams like OKC and LAC unless he's on fire. CJ can easily lineup next to Manu just like any starters...

[Pasta Batman]

I really liked Pop bringing in Jack and Blair early when we were looking bad. I feel they provided a huge spark that turned the game around just by making a couple energy plays and really going hard defensively in that shot stretch. That something you noticed too timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)?

I've always felt Blair can make a difference against OKC, even, maybe even especially so, in an extremely short stretch like that.

With Blair, you never know what you are going to get. They also got away with Neal playing Westbrook a lot (luckily his shot was really off) since CJ got some ticky tack fouls in the 1st half. So It's really a game by game decision. Jack loves challenges so I don't doubt he'll be around, even if his shot is going in. I still don't think that lineup of all bench will work consistently.

[Obstructed_View]

Um, I don't know which is more disturbing -- the fact that this douchebag "spursmartyr" is tossing around blatantly hateful jew-baiting language, or the fact that no one bats an eye. Can everyone on this message board really be comfortable with it? I mean, it's sickening.

You're welcome to complain. Since faggot is accepted everywhere and people use variations of ****** in virtually every quarterback thread, I doubt you're going to get much traction. Nobody here has the balls to go after the people who say shit like that.

[rjv]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/03/11/one-year-later-the-little-three-are-miles-ahead/

[emanueldavidginobili]

WOW Kawhi Leonard is getting better litterally every single game. Hes so much better than he is now than just the begining of the season. his confidence is improving his moves off the dribble, post up. The biggest improvement I have noticed was his ball handling, did you see him last night? He had all kinds of between the leg combinations sizing his man up and pulling up. Also his form is almost spot on its pretty impressive.

Did anyone watch ESPN first take today? Stephen A finally gave Tiago Splitter credit, he said Tiago will be the reason why they can get into the finals and give the Heat some trouble. I mean if Tim and Tiago play tough and play good Green and KL is playing to his potential, Tony returning and playing like a MVP like he was this season, Manu returning to his form and the bench shows up and everyone stays healthy, I know its asking for alot but there is no reason why the Spurs cant win it all.

[rjv]

-Another Pop move that worked was using Gary Neal at backup point guard. In his first few minutes on the court, I thought Neal looked bad. But he stuck to it and grinded out a solid showing. Neal is bad on defense -- but so is Patty Mills and Nando De Colo doesn't write back to France penning poems about his D either. Offensively, Neal can create shots for himself -- and that in itself is valuable. When he's passing adequately and not in a me-first, me-only mode, he's useful. Tonight he was useful.



and neal will have to be available at that spot during the playoffs as the chances are that if joseph gets into the playoff rotation he will be overwhelmed at times.

[Pasta Batman]

and neal will have to be available at that spot during the playoffs as the chances are that if joseph gets into the playoff rotation he will be overwhelmed at times.
And Neal hasn't been. Neal has been shit against LAC and OKC. Just because he's a rookie to NBA playoffs doesn't mean he'll crack. Some do, some don't. His role will be small even if he was the backup. Also, even if he plays backup PG with Manu, Manu will be setting up the offense most of the time.

[TheGoldStandard]

And Neal hasn't been. Neal has been shit against LAC and OKC. Just because he's a rookie to NBA playoffs doesn't mean he'll crack. Some do, some don't. His role will be small even if he was the backup. Also, even if he plays backup PG with Manu, Manu will be setting up the offense most of the time.

I have to agree, Gary Neal still gets overwhelmed on defense and gets caught doing stupid things like last night he was in the paint for some reason while the ball was rotated to his man and he hit an open 3. Mind you Tim and Tiago were in the game, he has no business in the paint. He's also clueless at handling the ball, always turns his back to the basket, picks up his dribble and gets caught or dribbles it off his foot.

He deserves 15 minutes a game at the 2 guard spot.

[SenorSpur]

As Timvp stated, Neal scares the chocolate out of me too, when he goes into "me-first" mode. That's exactly what he did when he entered the game in relief of Joseph. Thankfully, he found himself. He's still a terrible passer and defender.

As important as the win over OKC was, what did the Spurs do on the next night in Minnesota? They got their doors blown off.

[TheGoldStandard]

As Timvp stated, Neal scares the chocolate out of me too, when he goes into "me-first" mode. That's exactly what he did when he entered the game in relief of Joseph. Thankfully, he found himself. He's still a terrible passer and defender.

As important as the win over OKC was, what did the Spurs do on the next night in Minnesota? They got their doors blown off.


Nothing was falling all night even with open looks, just a horrible shooting night after a big game.