Did Refs try to F Spurs at home vs Thunderefs?

[td4mvp2k]

Free Throws
Spurs- 14
Thunderefs- 24

Free Throws in 4th
Spurs- 2
Thunderefs- 12

[Brunodf]

Grass is green

[EmoKobe]

non-issue, not worried

[King Emmanuel]

OKC is the only team in the league to have the refs in their backpockets in every arena they go to. Not even the Lakers are getting such blatant treatment.

[Jacob1983]

Why bitch? The Spurs won.

[Nathan89]

Why bitch? The Spurs won.

If Spurs lost people would say spursfan is making excuses. So this is the best time to bitch, imho.

[Jacob1983]

You should be proud. Your team beat the Thunder even when Doodoo Jump almost shot more free throws than the Spurs. Be proud.

[Thread]

Only pussies & assholes play the officiating card.

[hater]

actually the refs were surprisingly calling lot of fouls against OKC (Durant offensive/perkings/Ibaka/chimp) something rarely seen. Yes, they tried something at the end but the game was out of hand already.

IMO it was not a terribly officiated game. But this is regular season. I'm sure Refflahoma will be well represented inthe playoffs.

[Thread]

^
Only pussies & assholes play the officiating card.

[Latarian Milton]

refs were fine last night and 14-24 ain't too biased by thunder's standard, normally OKC will get 20-30 more freebies than the opposing team imho. officiating was fair enough and spurs fans should be satisfied with the win tbh

[OKC]

Free Throws
Spurs- 14
Thunderefs- 24

Free Throws in 4th
Spurs- 2
Thunderefs- 12

did u actually watch the game or do u just post stats and make absurd assumptions?

[SupremeGuy]

Only pussies & assholes play the officiating card.Easy to say when your team has had the benefit of the refs for years...

[OKC]

Easy to say when your team has had the benefit of the refs for years...

BS. Last night was a typical case of the fact that OKC just flat out is going to shoot more FT's. It's a reflection of their personnel and style of play. Got beat very soundly and still shot twice as many FT's and anyone who thinks that game wasn't called fairly is blind. THat's just the way OKC plays.

[UNCLE-DREW]

BS. Last night was a typical case of the fact that OKC just flat out is going to shoot more FT's. It's a reflection of their personnel and style of play. Got beat very soundly and still shot twice as many FT's and anyone who thinks that game wasn't called fairly is blind. THat's just the way OKC plays.

think he was reffering to the lakers :rollin

[DMC]

BS. Last night was a typical case of the fact that OKC just flat out is going to shoot more FT's. It's a reflection of their personnel and style of play. Got beat very soundly and still shot twice as many FT's and anyone who thinks that game wasn't called fairly is blind. THat's just the way OKC plays.

Agreed. To see evidence of this, just look at how many FTs James Harden gets. He's not with the Thunder any longer but his style is to attack the rim and get to the line. When you shoot a high percentage that's what you should do.

[OKC]

Agreed. To see evidence of this, just look at how many FTs James Harden gets. He's not with the Thunder any longer but his style is to attack the rim and get to the line. When you shoot a high percentage that's what you should do.

Finally, an opposing fan actually sees my point of view regarding OKC and FT attempts. Many Spurs fans just automatically point the finger at foul shot attempts and loosely use these Thunderef terms, which is ridiculous. Like I said, people need to stop and look long at hard at the game last night as a prime example of why the whole FT attempt thing is blown way out of proportion.

[Trill Clinton]

when you play monkeyball like the thunder(except durant) you get a lot of calls.like OKC said, their style of play is aggressive and they constantly attack the rim.its either foul or let them go to the rack and score 2 pts.what i hate about it is that it slows the game down.i saw several possessions in the 4th quarter when the thunder got desperate and just started throwing themselves into spurs defenders, trying to create contact and get calls.i hate it, but it is what it is.

[thunderup]

when you play monkeyball like the thunder(except durant) you get a lot of calls.like OKC said, their style of play is aggressive and they constantly attack the rim.its either foul or let them go to the rack and score 2 pts.what i hate about it is that it slows the game down.i saw several possessions in the 4th quarter when the thunder got desperate and just started throwing themselves into spurs defenders, trying to create contact and get calls.i hate it, but it is what it is.

Unique Spur fan here. Not bitchin about the refs.

Respect, partner, respect.

[OKC]

It is annoying as an opposing fan to watch, but these are things unique to some players in the league. Westbrook last night, for as dumb as he was going into hero mode, made some moves to the rim that shows just what happens when you don't foul him. He's absolutely unstoppable - his speed, air time, and ability to change direction of shot multiple times during hang time is just ridiculous. No team is going to sit back and watch him do that. You foul the guy, slow the game down, and make him earn it. When he's got a teams number penetration wise, he's gonna shot a legit 15 FT's in a game. I'm glad some Spurs fans can recognize this. You won't keep OKC off the line, even in a well officiated game and even in a game when you're kicking their ass.

[Thread]

Easy to say when your team has had the benefit of the refs for years...


Only pussies & assholes play the officiating card.

[Slutter McGee]

Unique Spur fan here. Not bitchin about the refs.

Respect, partner, respect.

Oh give me a break. If you can't see that Durant gets a ridiculous number of ticky tack BS fouls then you are nuts. Be proud of your team and players. They would be great even without the refs. But don't pretend its not true.

Slutter McGee

[OKC]

Oh give me a break. If you can't see that Durant gets a ridiculous number of ticky tack BS fouls then you are nuts. Be proud of your team and players. They would be great even without the refs. But don't pretend its not true.

Slutter McGee

I'll recognize the super star calls. A "ridiculous number" I will not agree with.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It is annoying as an opposing fan to watch, but these are things unique to some players in the league. Westbrook last night, for as dumb as he was going into hero mode, made some moves to the rim that shows just what happens when you don't foul him. He's absolutely unstoppable - his speed, air time, and ability to change direction of shot multiple times during hang time is just ridiculous. No team is going to sit back and watch him do that. You foul the guy, slow the game down, and make him earn it. When he's got a teams number penetration wise, he's gonna shot a legit 15 FT's in a game. I'm glad some Spurs fans can recognize this. You won't keep OKC off the line, even in a well officiated game and even in a game when you're kicking their ass.

Would you agree that LeBron's and Wade's style of play also translates to lots of contact and FTs, yet they don't get nearly as many as Durant and Westbrook.

[OKC]

Would you agree that LeBron's and Wade's style of play also translates to lots of contact and FTs, yet they don't get nearly as many as Durant and Westbrook.

Yes and no. Lebron does what he wants to do. To me he's often a pass first player. He assists the ball much more than Durant. I see Lebron time and time again penetrate the lane, go airborne and kick out to an open 3 point shooter. Seems he'd rather do that often times. If Lebron had it in his mind he needed to shoot 10 FTs a game, he would have no problem accomplishing that.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Yes and no. Lebron does what he wants to do. To me he's often a pass first player. He assists the ball much more than Durant. I see Lebron time and time again penetrate the lane, go airborne and kick out to an open 3 point shooter. Seems he'd rather do that often times. If Lebron had it in his mind he needed to shoot 10 FTs a game, he would have no problem accomplishing that.

LeBron has only about 40 less FGA than Durant, so no...

Edit : On the season :

LeBron : 1100 FGA, 414 FTA
Durant : 1145 FGA, 598 FTA

[Clipper Nation]

like OKC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43121) said, their style of play is aggressive and they constantly attack the rim.

:lmao No they don't.... they're 17th in the league in team FGA at the rim per game....

[OKC]

:lmao No they don't.... they're 17th in the league in team FGA at the rim per game....

Yeah, but when you're talking about OKC and FTs you're talkng about 2 players. Westbrook would be 4th in the league in at rim attempts and 1st among guards - a number in itself that is skewed a little because everytime he's fouled on a missed shot attempt, its not statistically attempt. Durant isn't super high, but top 30 or so. Granted, KD gets a lot his calls on the wing because defenders allow him zero space to operate whereas Westbrook they have to. Many defenders are smothering Durant and he baits them into fouls. Irritating maybe, but many are legit.

[Fabbs]

BS. Last night was a typical case of the fact that OKC just flat out is going to shoot more FT's. It's a reflection of their personnel and style of play. Got beat very soundly and still shot twice as many FT's and anyone who thinks that game wasn't called fairly is blind. THat's just the way OKC plays.
Defensively Durant stands in the paint then shuffles sideways like a twig blown in the wind. In front of driving Spurs. Tweet! Gets the bullshit charging call repeatedly.
Key burn call last year vs Ginobili in rigged Game 6. Gino had a beautiful 2+1 wiped out by sniffin Thunderef.

Last night setting the tone, Timmy Dunks drives across the lane and gets mugged by Ibaka and ball knocked away. Westbrick drives hard but completely set Joseph is ready. Tweet! Charging.

Don't give us the "we take it to the rack more" bullshit. Kobists tried that too. Nonsense.

[Thread]

Defensively Durant stands in the paint then shuffles sideways like a twig blown in the wind. In front of driving Spurs. Tweet! Gets the bullshit charging call repeatedly.
Key burn call last year vs Ginobili in rigged Game 6. Gino had a beautiful 2+1 wiped out by sniffin Thunderef.

Last night setting the tone, Timmy Dunks drives across the lane and gets mugged by Ibaka and ball knocked away. Westbrick drives hard but completely set Joseph is ready. Tweet! Charging.

Don't give us the "we take it to the rack more" bullshit. Kobists tried that too. Nonsense.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by OKC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6413561#post6413561)
one minute they're thinking of what trades they can make and how sorry everyone on the team is..the next, they're in love again and the basketball world is all theirs.

[OKC]

Defensively Durant stands in the paint then shuffles sideways like a twig blown in the wind. In front of driving Spurs. Tweet! Gets the bullshit charging call repeatedly.
Key burn call last year vs Ginobili in rigged Game 6. Gino had a beautiful 2+1 wiped out by sniffin Thunderef.

Last night setting the tone, Timmy Dunks drives across the lane and gets mugged by Ibaka and ball knocked away. Westbrick drives hard but completely set Joseph is ready. Tweet! Charging.

Don't give us the "we take it to the rack more" bullshit. Kobists tried that too. Nonsense.

Every game, every night, there's questionable calls. Get over it. You think there were no borderline calls the other way? We're talking in a broad sense here. The game was called as good as you can expect an NBA game to be called.

[Fabbs]

Ah, the broad brushed "every game has missed calls."
Thunderef awards "borderline calls" to OKC at about a 6 to 1 clip.

That is Lakerlike.

[OKC]

Ah, the broad brushed "every game has missed calls."
Thunderef awards "borderline calls" to OKC at about a 6 to 1 clip.

That is Lakerlike.

Just keep playing the victim I guess. I don't know what else to tell you. Some people see it how they want to see it. Some people try to be objective - clearly, you're not one of them.

[DAF86]

There were 3 or 4 calls in a row in favor of OKC at the beggining of the 4th that were mind-boggling.

[Slutter McGee]

Just keep playing the victim I guess. I don't know what else to tell you. Some people see it how they want to see it. Some people try to be objective - clearly, you're not one of them.

Its far easier for Spurs fans to be objective. We are not basing our opinions off this game alone, but games against other teams. Sometimes I find myself rooting for the Tunder to win. But I still recognize the disparity in both number of calls and type of calls.

I honestly think you might be an idiot.

Slutter McGee

[OKC]

Its far easier for Spurs fans to be objective. We are not basing our opinions off this game alone, but games against other teams. Sometimes I find myself rooting for the Tunder to win. But I still recognize the disparity in both number of calls and type of calls.

I honestly think you might be an idiot.

Slutter McGee

I recognize both the disparity and the sensible reason behind the disparity. You recognize the disparity without taking anything into context and then bitching and moaning like some sort of victim. Again - last night. Double the FT attempts - in a loss, in a well called game. You don't think it was a well called game because you'v already convinced yourself and burned into your mind that OKC gets the benefit of every call. It's difficult to convince someone to look objectively at something when they've already made up their mind. Another stat - prior to Game 6 of the WCF last year, SA shot an equal number of FT's in head to head games against OKC over the previous 2 regular seasons.

[mercos]

OKC got a lot of touch fouls to start and finish the game. They ultimately did not matter because this was a blowout, but in a close game they could have made the difference. Unless you are the Miami Heat, you do not want to be involved in a close game with the Thunder.

[rjv]

Only pussies & assholes play the officiating card.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXL2HA2xayGSpPv0OfLPTKFXmUUCgdj qsXFk3oOpA_7WGpc4ysKw

[td4mvp2k]

did u actually watch the game or do u just post stats and make absurd assumptions?

:lol Ya I saw a game the refs were trying to win for the meth heads but spurs shooting was to great and got by it... No assumptions about that bytch and get your meth head out of your azz!

[Dro210]

The most telling thing I can point out about the Thunder getting calls... I love basketball, i watch it religiously, I referee part time, and 4-5 years ago the Thunder were hands down my 2nd favorite team to watch. Over the years, it's become hard to watch them, so much to the point to where now I'm just as disgusted watching them play as I used to be the Lakers. I actually think its worse, because Westbrook is a nightmare of a player. That guy makes them almost as hard to watch as the refs.

And for anybody saying I'm just mad because they beat us last year. The shift started way before that.

[OKC]

:lol Ya I saw a game the refs were trying to win for the meth heads but spurs shooting was to great and got by it... No assumptions about that bytch and get your meth head out of your azz!

I'm sorry, your choice of words and general vocabulary doesn't lend itself to much credibility.

[OKC]

The most telling thing I can point out about the Thunder getting calls... I love basketball, i watch it religiously, I referee part time, and 4-5 years ago the Thunder were hands down my 2nd favorite team to watch. Over the years, it's become hard to watch them, so much to the point to where now I'm just as disgusted watching them play as I used to be the Lakers. I actually think its worse, because Westbrook is a nightmare of a player. That guy makes them almost as hard to watch as the refs.

And for anybody saying I'm just mad because they beat us last year. The shift started way before that.

Westbrook is a nightmare in what sense? Honestly, between KD and RW, I'm far more apt to agree KD getting the ticky tack fouls over Westbrook. Agree? I mean the majority of Westbrooks fouls are when he's in penetration mode and let's be honest - he's about as unstoppable a guy as there in that respect - making it very reasonable to assume he does get fouled quite a bit.

[Dro210]

Westbrook is a nightmare in what sense? Honestly, between KD and RW, I'm far more apt to agree KD getting the ticky tack fouls over Westbrook. Agree? I mean the majority of Westbrooks fouls are when he's in penetration mode and let's be honest - he's about as unstoppable a guy as there in that respect - making it very reasonable to assume he does get fouled quite a bit.

Oh yea completely agree with the fact KD gets more calls like that. I'm just referring to Westbrooks style of play. It's out of control and unintelligent the majority of the time. And he plays off emotion in the wrong way. I cringe when you know somebody just got him and he feels he's gotta get one back, so he beats 3 of his teammates down the floor and throws up a pull up 18footer off the back of the rim with 19 on the shot clock. Couldn't play on a team with that guy, even if he is extremely talented.

[td4mvp2k]

I'm sorry, your choice of words and general vocabulary doesn't lend itself to much credibility.

:lol gtfo pus

[ambchang]

I recognize both the disparity and the sensible reason behind the disparity. You recognize the disparity without taking anything into context and then bitching and moaning like some sort of victim. Again - last night. Double the FT attempts - in a loss, in a well called game. You don't think it was a well called game because you'v already convinced yourself and burned into your mind that OKC gets the benefit of every call. It's difficult to convince someone to look objectively at something when they've already made up their mind. Another stat - prior to Game 6 of the WCF last year, SA shot an equal number of FT's in head to head games against OKC over the previous 2 regular seasons.

So given their style of play, why didn't OKC get more calls the 2 previous regular season? Don't OKC play the same style?

Are you insinuating that the refs were calling in favour of the Spurs and against the Thunder?

[KL2]

Some fouls were legit however most were BS, in the 4th. The amount of moving screens okc was getting out of hand, the durant charge when he was still moving, westbrook not being called for traveling lead to a layup, diaw being called for over the back when he was in front of ibaka lmao, manu knocking it off westbrook's leg out of bounds equals thunder ball etc. those are just off the top of my head.

Okc would be a pretty average team without the reffing they get.

[blizz]

Some fouls were legit however most were BS, in the 4th. The amount of moving screens okc was getting out of hand, the durant charge when he was still moving, westbrook not being called for traveling lead to a layup, diaw being called for over the back when he was in front of ibaka lmao, manu knocking it off westbrook's leg out of bounds equals thunder ball etc. those are just off the top of my head.

Okc would be a pretty average team without the reffing they get.

Don't forget when Kawhi got called for "thinking" about fouling KD at the three pt line in the 4th.

[ElNono]

Heard this one on the telecast last night...

Durant and Westbrook *alone* have more freethrow attempts than 11 *complete* NBA teams. That's almost half the teams in the league.

You can spin it with the "aggressive style" and what not, but the reality ends up being that most teams are not allowed to guard those guys without getting a foul called on them.

[OKC]

Some fouls were legit however most were BS, in the 4th. The amount of moving screens okc was getting out of hand, the durant charge when he was still moving, westbrook not being called for traveling lead to a layup, diaw being called for over the back when he was in front of ibaka lmao, manu knocking it off westbrook's leg out of bounds equals thunder ball etc. those are just off the top of my head.

Okc would be a pretty average team without the reffing they get.

Average team without reffing? Dude...really? You lost credibility with that statement.

[ElNono]

Also, didn't the league change the rules on those "flail-your-arms-for-a-fake-shot-attempt-foul" that Durant did every other possession and changed them to non-shooting-fouls? Whatever happened with that? Last night they kept sending Kevin to the line when he pulled those off.

[DAF86]

Also, didn't the league change the rules on those "flail-your-arms-for-a-fake-shot-attempt-foul" that Durant did every other possession and changed them to non-shooting-fouls? Whatever happened with that? Last night they kept sending Kevin to the line when he pulled those off.

That's because the Spur were already in the penalty with like 9 mins remaining in the 4th.

[td4mvp2k]

Heard this one on the telecast last night...

Durant and Westbrook *alone* have more freethrow attempts than 11 *complete* NBA teams. That's almost half the teams in the league.

You can spin it with the "aggressive style" and what not, but the reality ends up being that most teams are not allowed to guard those guys without getting a foul called on them.


Also, didn't the league change the rules on those "flail-your-arms-for-a-fake-shot-attempt-foul" that Durant did every other possession and changed them to non-shooting-fouls? Whatever happened with that? Last night they kept sending Kevin to the line when he pulled those off.+1

[KaiRMD1]

In all honesty, as a basketball fan it kills me that OKC, an absolutely talented team, gets these calls. It does a lot more harm than good in the long run because EVERYONE on the OKC side will get accustomed to these calls. I'd prefer to see these teams go at it without any bullshit calls because I guarantee that a great basketball game will happen. OKC doesn't even need the calls but now that they adjust their style to get these calls, it hinders their ability and what we wind up seeing is a game where a guy in blue runs into the paint falls and throws a ball up. Yeah, that's basketball.

[Clipper Nation]

Heard this one on the telecast last night...

Durant and Westbrook *alone* have more freethrow attempts than 11 *complete* NBA teams. That's almost half the teams in the league.
That is truly pathetic shit on Stern's part, tbh.... there's no spinning that....

[td4mvp2k]

Heard this one on the telecast last night...

Durant and Westbrook *alone* have more freethrow attempts than 11 *complete* NBA teams. That's almost half the teams in the league.

You can spin it with the "aggressive style" and what not, but the reality ends up being that most teams are not allowed to guard those guys without getting a foul called on them.Spurs Sean Elliott said the refs sucked in the game :lol

[KaiRMD1]

Average team without reffing? Dude...really? You lost credibility with that statement.

When was the last time the Thunder didn't get ref help? In that game, how well did they play? We'll never know whether they are any good without the help sadly but I'm almost inclined to agree unless we can see a game where the Thunder aren't awarded free throws, sadly.

[Cry Havoc]

Reading the Reddit game thread last night, there were Lakers, Bulls, Rockets, and even OKC fans talking about how many bullshit calls they get. Yeah. Pretty obvious.

[OKC]

OKC shoots 5 more FT's per game than their opponent. Yeah, without those 4 points a game they'd be pretty damn average! Anyone who thinks the only reason OKC is above mediocrity is due to shooting 5 more FTs a game than their opponent has ZERO credibility and shouldn't even discuss basketball.

[OKC]

Examples of some wins this season with close or deficits in FT's against playoff caliber teams
Chicago +3, 21 FTs
Hou -8, 22 FTs
LAL - 3, 28 FTs
ATL +3, 20 FTs
Hou -4, 23 FTs
Por +4, 22 FTs
LAC -7, 14 FTs
MEM +5, 25 FTs
GS +4, 20 FTs
Chi +3, 27 FTs
LAL -16, 24 FTs

[SpursBills]

In all honesty, as a basketball fan it kills me that OKC, an absolutely talented team, gets these calls. It does a lot more harm than good in the long run because EVERYONE on the OKC side will get accustomed to these calls. I'd prefer to see these teams go at it without any bullshit calls because I guarantee that a great basketball game will happen. OKC doesn't even need the calls but now that they adjust their style to get these calls, it hinders their ability and what we wind up seeing is a game where a guy in blue runs into the paint falls and throws a ball up. Yeah, that's basketball.

I agree with this post. I'd say with a +5 FT differential per game, OKC probably gets 3-4 ppg more than they should off free throws. Might not sound like much, and they'd still be a good team without bs calls, but a +6 point differential puts them much closer to Nuggets/Grizz company than the elite team they are now (+9.3 currently).

[Cry Havoc]

OKC shoots 5 more FT's per game than their opponent. Yeah, without those 4 points a game they'd be pretty damn average! Anyone who thinks the only reason OKC is above mediocrity is due to shooting 5 more FTs a game than their opponent has ZERO credibility and shouldn't even discuss basketball.

You don't think 4-5 points per game at a crucial moment isn't absolutely huge for momentum, not to mention, actually, you know, getting other players in foul trouble? Do you even watch basketball?

No one is saying the Thunder need help to beat the Tpups or the Cavs 4-5 points in a game or even a SERIES could make all the difference.

[OKC]

You don't think 4-5 points per game at a crucial moment isn't absolutely huge for momentum, not to mention, actually, you know, getting other players in foul trouble? Do you even watch basketball?

No one is saying the Thunder need help to beat the Tpups or the Cavs 4-5 points in a game or even a SERIES could make all the difference.

A lot. Sometimes near the court. Different perspective on things vs a seat on the couch. Of course it comes into play. I'm not suggesting it's irrelevant, I'm suggesting that the idea that they are gifts from the refs due to some sort of favoritism and that KD and RW aren't actually fouled most of the time is just absurd. I'm also suggesting that anyone who disagrees that KD and RW's style of play lends itself to being fouled more is also a bit confused.

[DPG21920]

OKC fan is a blind homer. Did you watch the game, OKC? Do you not see the abuse Perkins is allowed to inflict on Tim down low? Those are fouls that are not called and clearly should be. Putting two hands on someone, pushing, the 100 illegal screens not called. You seriously don't see those illegal screens? Honestly?

And if those were called with regularity: 1) He would stop doing them, 2) It would put them in the bonus way earlier which leads to more FTA.

You are blind if you don't see that.

[DPG21920]

Also your "style of play" argument doesn't hold water when TP drives as much, if not more than any guard in the league yet doesn't shoot nearly as many FT"s are Durant/WB and he's in the paint with contact every bit as much with an attack minded/driving game.

[Thread]

^Only pussies & assholes blame the officiating.

[TE]

DPG comes in and immediately takes a cholera-induced dump on Reflahoma fan :lol

[Thread]

^TE gettin' his fart catcher on.

[DPG21920]

TP PITP: 602

RW PITP: 614

KD PITP: 612

Tony Parker, both by casual observation and statistically is attacking every bit as much (those are season totals and TP has missed games) as your two, but doesn't get nearly as many FT's. Even a casual fan with no statistical knowledge would say TP is one of the fastest attack minded guards in the league - yet why not the FT love?

No one is saying that OKC is cheating - they are simply acknowledging that they get the benefit of the doubt more than any other team at the moment. Denying this is basically being ashamed of it and lying IMO. It's not that OKC gets phantom calls, they earn them. It's that other teams don't get those exact same calls (i.e. TP driving more than them with the same regularity)which is frustrating since their should be no difference (but we all know there is for whatever reason)

[FkLA]

Whats really annoying is that Durant intentionally looks for the refs to bail him out and the refs are happy to do so. When the opposing team gets in the penalty he sells any kind of contact and almost always gets the calls. The foul on Kawhi late in the game last night were even Kawhi was in disbelief was a good example. He also does that cheap ass shit where if anyone has their hand anywhere near him he intentionally goes under the hand as hes going up for the shot...I know Timmy does that occasionally but this dude get 2-3 of those calls per game. Would love for the league to eliminate that call kinda like how they eliminated the call where offensive players threw their bodies at defenders tbh.

Westbrook, for as much of a faggot and douche as he is, is relentless at attacking the rim. I dont have a problem with most of his FTAs tbh.

[OKC]

TP PITP: 602

RW PITP: 614

KD PITP: 612

Tony Parker, both by casual observation and statistically is attacking every bit as much (those are season totals and TP has missed games) as your two, but doesn't get nearly as many FT's. Even a casual fan with no statistical knowledge would say TP is one of the fastest attack minded guards in the league - yet why not the FT love?

No one is saying that OKC is cheating - they are simply acknowledging that they get the benefit of the doubt more than any other team at the moment. Denying this is basically being ashamed of it and lying IMO. It's not that OKC gets phantom calls, they earn them. It's that other teams don't get those exact same calls (i.e. TP driving more than them with the same regularity)which is frustrating since their should be no difference (but we all know there is for whatever reason)

Never seen Tony Parker dunk the ball in my life. Sure he has, just never seen it. Parker plays below the rim. Parker shoots a lot of floaters and tear drops in comparison to Westbrook. Westbrook goes THRU the defender. Parker will not. He's much more evasive. Noone's concerned about Parker going over them and scoring. Westbrook can dunk over many centers in the league. There's clearly a different defensive approach to playing Westbrook than there would be Parker. I realize Parker shoots less FTs despite his aggression, but you also have to admit the way in which Parker attacks is very much different than Westbrook. Yes, Kevin Durant gets superstar calls. I realize that.

[OKC]

OKC fan is a blind homer. Did you watch the game, OKC? Do you not see the abuse Perkins is allowed to inflict on Tim down low? Those are fouls that are not called and clearly should be. Putting two hands on someone, pushing, the 100 illegal screens not called. You seriously don't see those illegal screens? Honestly?

And if those were called with regularity: 1) He would stop doing them, 2) It would put them in the bonus way earlier which leads to more FTA.

You are blind if you don't see that.

Of course Duncan was mauled all night. Duncan is mauled on every single possession if you ask him. Tim Duncan is probably the biggest whiner in the history of the NBA. In fact, he's rated by many as one of the biggest whiner in all of sports. It doesn't surprise me that his fans would adopt the same mindset. Poor, poor victims.

[Latarian Milton]

haven't watched them much so i might be wrong, but every time i watch an OKC game i see durant slide his arms under his defender's and lift his arms all of a sudden like he's attempting a shot, when in reality his real attempt is to swindle the freebies

[DPG21920]

Of course Duncan was mauled all night. Duncan is mauled on every single possession if you ask him. Tim Duncan is probably the biggest whiner in the history of the NBA. In fact, he's rated by many as one of the biggest whiner in all of sports. It doesn't surprise me that his fans would adopt the same mindset. Poor, poor victims.

:lmao. OKC whines like they don't get more FT's than everyone. OKC is the most coddled team/ref reliant team in the NBA, it's not surprising their fans would see argue against it.

Also, Google, "Kendrick Perkins Illegal Screens", it's not just Duncan or Spurs fans. So there goes that theory. Sad that all OKC fans are this ridiculous.

[OKC]

haven't watched them much so i might be wrong, but every time i watch an OKC game i see durant slide his arms under his defender's and lift his arms all of a sudden like he's attempting a shot, when in reality his real attempt is to swindle the freebies

The rip move. That's not, or at least shouldn't be and rarely is, called a foul on a shot attempt. It's on the floor. It's a smart play honestly. They do not allow it as a shot attempt, which is only fair. However, a defensive approach on KD is to smother him and take away space. One has to give KD credit in getting these calls. It's actually very smart and technically is a foul. A defender cannot impede the forward movement of an offensive player with his arms. Guys like Lebron never fall for it. Know how to defend and you won't be drawn into it.

[OKC]

:lmao. OKC whines like they don't get more FT's than everyone. OKC is the most coddled team/ref reliant team in the NBA, it's not surprising their fans would see argue against it.

Also, Google, "Kendrick Perkins Illegal Screens", it's not just Duncan or Spurs fans. So there goes that theory. Sad that all OKC fans are this ridiculous.

Grow a pair. Suck it up or stop watching basketball. All the advice I've got for you really.

[DPG21920]

That doesn't make any sense. At all. That's how you know you have no point. You randomly fly off the handle worse than Russell Westbrook yelling at Thabo and can't admit the obvious supported by evidence.

[CubanMustGo]

Grow a pair. Suck it up or stop watching basketball. All the advice I've got for you really.

AKA "I can't rebut the argument, so let me insult you."

[DPG21920]

:cry Duncan is a cry baby and OKC earns all those calls because they are aggressive!!! :cry

[thunderup]

Grow a pair. Suck it up or stop watching basketball. All the advice I've got for you really.

:tu This is applicable to 99.9% of Spur fan posting here partner. Bunch of whiners in here.

[DPG21920]

:lol

[OKC]

That doesn't make any sense. At all. That's how you know you have no point. You randomly fly off the handle worse than Russell Westbrook yelling at Thabo and can't admit the obvious supported by evidence.
My friend you've offered no evidence other than - Tony Parker is aggressive too, but shoots less FT's. Ok. For one, I've acknowledged that fact. Since you obviously didn't read my first post carefully, I'll say it again - YES - TONY PARKER SHOOTS FEWER FREE THROWS EVEN THOUGH HE IS ALSO AN AGGRESSIVE POINT GUARD. So I have agreed with your statistical evidence and argued that point validly by stating (have to type it again for you):

" Never seen Tony Parker dunk the ball in my life. Sure he has, just never seen it. Parker plays below the rim. Parker shoots a lot of floaters and tear drops in comparison to Westbrook. Westbrook goes THRU the defender. Parker will not. He's much more evasive. Noone's concerned about Parker going over them and scoring. Westbrook can dunk over many centers in the league. There's clearly a different defensive approach to playing Westbrook than there would be Parker. I realize Parker shoots less FTs despite his aggression, but you also have to admit the way in which Parker attacks is very much different than Westbrook "

[OKC]

:cry Duncan is a cry baby and OKC earns all those calls because they are aggressive!!! :cry
Read! JUst please try and read and comprehend something. You apparently read something and then twist it into some sort of victim agenda you have in your head. It's not that Westbrook is more aggressive, so he shoots more FTs. IT goes beyond that. Sure, that's the basis for many of his free throws, but its the nature in which he attempt to score in comparison to Parker. Now, if you want to argue that the two players penetrate the lane and offer the defense near identical offensive moves, I'd like to hear this one... IS that what you're claiming?

[Trainwreck2100]

Also, didn't the league change the rules on those "flail-your-arms-for-a-fake-shot-attempt-foul" that Durant did every other possession and changed them to non-shooting-fouls? Whatever happened with that? Last night they kept sending Kevin to the line when he pulled those off.

they were in the bonus with like 8 or 9 minutes left

[DPG21920]

Read! JUst please try and read and comprehend something. You apparently read something and then twist it into some sort of victim agenda you have in your head. It's not that Westbrook is more aggressive, so he shoots more FTs. IT goes beyond that. Sure, that's the basis for many of his free throws, but its the nature in which he attempt to score in comparison to Parker. Now, if you want to argue that the two players penetrate the lane and offer the defense near identical offensive moves, I'd like to hear this one... IS that what you're claiming?

:lol You just called Duncan the biggest complainer in the NBA. There is no twisting that. You became flustered and defensive because you know what is going on - understandable. Just work on being less upset and you will become a better poster.

[OKC]

If you want me to further explain why Parker shoots fewer FTs - Parker has at his disposal the most talented big man in the NBA. Duncan has some serious hands. Westbrook has at his disposal probably the worst hands in the NBA and Ibaka's aren't a whole lot better. Anyone defending OKC knows they can be a little lenient with Perkins. Perkins is clumsy as hell. If Westbrook penetrates the lane, 98 times out of 100 Westbrook has no intention of doing anything but going right at the rim. WHen Parker penetrates, he's either pulling up for a 12 footer or going to the rim - key difference being he can't play above the rim and cannot take it to the rim against bigs like Westbrook can. So what's he do? He plays a very smart and crafty game. He'll bait the defender into thinking he's going to dish it off - again, easy to do when you've got the likes of Duncan down there. Defenses have to respect that. Or - he baits the defense into thinking he's dishing to the likes of Duncan and gets some uncontested shots at the rim. Defense on Westbrook - no way in hell he's looking to pass to Perk cuz Perk's retarded on offense. We know Westbrooks going at the rim every time and we'll contest it everytime. Night and day approach. Please don't argue it. It leads to more fouls, naturally

[OKC]

:lol You just called Duncan the biggest complainer in the NBA. There is no twisting that. You became flustered and defensive because you know what is going on - understandable. Just work on being less upset and you will become a better poster.

He is! And PErkins is not far behind him. Westbrook and Durant are a little too good at it too. I ain't afraid to admit the truth.

[OKC]

:lol You just called Duncan the biggest complainer in the NBA. There is no twisting that. You became flustered and defensive because you know what is going on - understandable. Just work on being less upset and you will become a better poster.

I see you've COMPLETELY refused to address my analysis of how Parker and Westbrook differ in their offensive approach in the lane. Very convenient!

[DPG21920]

No - I didn't fail to address it. I just refuse to continue to engage someone who gets so flustered when their points get proven inaccurate (like you just did). I made my point (you failed to address Perkins moving screens and how those non-calls impact other teams and their ability to get into the bonus/hit more FT's) and showed the holes in your logic. There is nothing else to argue IMO.

[Cry Havoc]

Of course Duncan was mauled all night. Duncan is mauled on every single possession if you ask him. Tim Duncan is probably the biggest whiner in the history of the NBA. In fact, he's rated by many as one of the biggest whiner in all of sports. It doesn't surprise me that his fans would adopt the same mindset. Poor, poor victims.

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

Kevin Durant is 50x the whiner Duncan has ever been, or will ever be. God damn Oklahoma City fans are really making a run with Houston fans for the stupidest, most homerific fanbase in the history of ST, and that says a lot considering you've had all of three fans on this board.

Thanks for confirming that you have not, in fact, watched more than one or two seasons of basketball in your life, and just like to parrot what BSPN says while wanking to your frontrunning team.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls

Whine on that, homer.

[OKC]

No - I didn't fail to address it. I just refuse to continue to engage someone who gets so flustered when their points get proven inaccurate (like you just did). I made my point (you failed to address Perkins moving screens and how those non-calls impact other teams and their ability to get into the bonus/hit more FT's) and showed the holes in your logic. There is nothing else to argue IMO.

The suggestion that KENDRICK PERKINS has favor with NBA referees is absurd. Moving screens go uncalled in the NBA all the time. I do not see Perkins getting away with an unusual # of screen. NOw - Again - WHY is it that you think Parker should be shooting as many FTs as Westbrook? Because he's aggressive? Go give some consideration to my comparison of Westbrook and Parker and tell me it doesn't complete sense and would naturally result in more fouls called on Westbrook.

[DPG21920]

Your assement of Parkers game is faulty as well as is your conclusion. None of that is supported by a shred of evidence outside of the eye ball test of WB being a more athletic player (TP is faster, but let's not go there). The fact is TP finishes at the rim as much as WB if not more (statistical fact), same with PITP. Your assessment of TP's skills are correct, but your implementation of how that impacts the numbers is off because TP gets all the way to the rim and finishes (so not the skill shots you claim) as much as WB.

Also, WB shoots plenty of those pull up 12 foot shots. Plenty. Probably more than TP.

[OKC]

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

Kevin Durant is 50x the whiner Duncan has ever been, or will ever be. God damn Oklahoma City fans are really making a run with Houston fans for the stupidest, most homerific fanbase in the history of ST, and that says a lot considering you've had all of three fans on this board.

Thanks for confirming that you have not, in fact, watched more than one or two seasons of basketball in your life, and just like to parrot what BSPN says while wanking to your frontrunning team.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls

Whine on that, homer.
Hey buddy - go up a few posts and see where, by my own admission, Kevin Durant whines too much. You think I don't realize Durant whines about no calls? Fully aware of it and fully admitted it. Thanks.

[Cry Havoc]

The suggestion that KENDRICK PERKINS has favor with NBA referees is absurd. Moving screens go uncalled in the NBA all the time. I do not see Perkins getting away with an unusual # of screen. NOw - Again - WHY is it that you think Parker should be shooting as many FTs as Westbrook? Because he's aggressive? Go give some consideration to my comparison of Westbrook and Parker and tell me it doesn't complete sense and would naturally result in more fouls called on Westbrook.

It's not Perk.

It's OKC as a team, as a whole.

Your team is going to be just as good whether you admit the ref bias or not. The fact that you can't says a lot about how rose-tinted those glasses are.


The interesting thing is that, earlier this year, OKC was far and away #1, and deep into the season, they are still #1 by a huge margin.

They shoot 0.282 FT/FGA, and that is 0.047 FT/FGA more than the 2nd team (surprise surprise) LA Lakers. When you put that into perspective, that is the same difference as #2 LA Lakers with #21 Trail Blazers.

As the WC teams are fighting for the #6 to 8 seed, I would like to track the FT/FGA of these teams for the final 20 or so games.

As we speak:

LA Lakers is #2 with 0.235
Rockets are #3 with 0.231
Jazz are #6 with 0.225
Warriors are #13 with 0.209

Let's see how those numbers evolve.

EDIT:
The numbers posted above were FTM/FGA, so it is not really indicative of what I am trying to accomplish. I have recalculated those numbers based on FTA/FGA.

The interesting thing is that OKC is no longer THAT far ahead in terms of numbers, they shot 0.341 FTA/FGA, only 0.00376 more than 2nd place LAL. At the same time, LAL is 0.02547 more than 3rd place MIN, which is the same difference as #3 from #12 IND. Put that in perspective, the only difference larger between a team's FTA/FTM with the next ranked than the LAL-MIN difference is between the #28 ranked Suns and #29 ranked 76ers, with a difference of 0.03793. The next biggest difference is between the Pistons and the Kings of 0.00918, and that is about 40% difference than the LAL-MIN difference. In other words, the difference between #2 ranked LAL and #3 ranked MIN is HUGE.

As of yesterday, the 4 teams of interest have the following numbers:
LAL, #2, 0.337
HOU, #5, 0.305
UTA, #8, 0.293
GSW, #19, 0.261

Care to respond to this? Or are you just going to bandy about the fact that you have two athletic players who drive and convince yourself that the rest of the NBA is a plodding turd?

[Cry Havoc]

Hey buddy - go up a few posts and see where, by my own admission, Kevin Durant whines too much. You think I don't realize Durant whines about no calls? Fully aware of it and fully admitted it. Thanks.

Hey buddy -- you posted that after I was responding, AND you said Duncan is worse. Laughable. Every player in the league has beef with the refs. Durant gets more calls than any player in NBA history and still leads the league in bitching about how unfair his treatment is. Thanks.

[BatManu20]

I'm watching the Heat game right now and Lebron's getting the Durant treatment. 2 times in a row the Hawks have played perfect defense and both times the ref called a foul. Oh an then called a tech on the Hawks for reacting to the horrible foul call. Lebron and Durant will near unbeatable come playoffs with the star treatment they will inevitably receive, and the Heat are already probably going to win it anyways.

[OKC]

Your assement of Parkers game is faulty as well as is your conclusion. None of that is supported by a shred of evidence outside of the eye ball test of WB being a more athletic player (TP is faster, but let's not go there). The fact is TP finishes at the rim as much as WB if not more (statistical fact), same with PITP. Your assessment of TP's skills are correct, but your implementation of how that impacts the numbers is off because TP gets all the way to the rim and finishes (so not the skill shots you claim) as much as WB.

Also, WB shoots plenty of those pull up 12 foot shots. Plenty. Probably more than TP.

You see, numbers are numbers, but there's context around those numbers that can't be quantified. Of course TP finishes at the rim - he does so uncontested a LOT more than Westbrook. Why? Because he has a skilled offensive frontcourt surrounding him that the defense has to respect. They'll take that bait sometimes and he'll go uncontested. Make sense?

[Cry Havoc]

I'm watching the Heat game right now and Lebron's getting the Durant treatment. 2 times in a row the Hawks have played perfect defense and both times the ref called a foul. Oh an then called a tech on the Hawks for reacting to the horrible foul call. Lebron and Durant will near unbeatable come playoffs with the star treatment they will inevitably receive.

Every player in the league gets the Durant treatment occasionally. The issue is, Durant gets it EVERY GAME, home or away.

[Cry Havoc]

You see, numbers are numbers, but there's context around those numbers that can't be quantified. Of course TP finishes at the rim - he does so uncontested a LOT more than Westbrook. Why? Because he has a skilled offensive frontcourt surrounding him that the defense has to respect. They'll take that bait sometimes and he'll go uncontested. Make sense?

:lmao :lmao :lmao The reason Parker doesn't shoot as many FTs is because he's never touched. :lmao :lmao :lmao

Never watched a Spurs game in his life. :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Of course Duncan was mauled all night. Duncan is mauled on every single possession if you ask him. Tim Duncan is probably the biggest whiner in the history of the NBA. In fact, he's rated by many as one of the biggest whiner in all of sports. It doesn't surprise me that his fans would adopt the same mindset. Poor, poor victims.
I've never seen Duncan get ejected for screaming "FUCK YOU" at a ref over only getting 99.9% of the calls instead of the usual 100%, tbh....

[thunderup]

I'm watching the Heat game right now and Lebron's getting the Durant treatment. 2 times in a row the Hawks have played perfect defense and both times the ref called a foul. Oh an then called a tech on the Hawks for reacting to the horrible foul call. Lebron and Durant will near unbeatable come playoffs with the star treatment they will inevitably receive.

I can admit that Kevin gets the benefit of the whistle frequently. The problem with San Antonio Heat fans is they can't admit the same for Lebrick.

[DPG21920]

The suggestion that KENDRICK PERKINS has favor with NBA referees is absurd. Moving screens go uncalled in the NBA all the time. I do not see Perkins getting away with an unusual # of screen. NOw - Again - WHY is it that you think Parker should be shooting as many FTs as Westbrook? Because he's aggressive? Go give some consideration to my comparison of Westbrook and Parker and tell me it doesn't complete sense and would naturally result in more fouls called on Westbrook.


Of course not :lol. You are a ridiculous homer. I'll use your logic: "I can prove Perkins gets away with more moving screens than anyone. First, Perkins is not as athletic as other centers, so naturally he is a step slower when it comes to setting screens. That leads himto being out of position often and has to resort to moving. Secondly, he plays with the ultra athletic point guard in Westbrook who is impatient and alway looking to attack. Naturally, Westbrook doesn't wait for plays to develop so he puts Perkins in a bad spot from a screen perspective. So when you combine those two factors (Perkins being slow, Westbrook being fast) it's clear Kendrick Perkins is in a bad position for screens more than the normal center hence setting so many illegal screens."

[OKC]

Hey buddy -- you posted that after I was responding, AND you said Duncan is worse. Laughable. Every player in the league has beef with the refs. Durant gets more calls than any player in NBA history and still leads the league in bitching about how unfair his treatment is. Thanks.

POst 86. Go read it. Your post about me denying KD whines to the refs is post #90. Last time I checked, 86 comes before 90.

[DPG21920]

You see, numbers are numbers, but there's context around those numbers that can't be quantified. Of course TP finishes at the rim - he does so uncontested a LOT more than Westbrook. Why? Because he has a skilled offensive frontcourt surrounding him that the defense has to respect. They'll take that bait sometimes and he'll go uncontested. Make sense?

:lmao That Kevin Durant/Ibaka front court capable of shooting jumpers all over the floor really sucks!

[OKC]

Of course not :lol. You are a ridiculous homer. I'll use your logic: "I can prove Perkins gets away with more moving screens than anyone. First, Perkins is not as athletic as other centers, so naturally he is a step slower when it comes to setting screens. That leads himto being out of position often and has to resort to moving. Secondly, he plays with the ultra athletic point guard in Westbrook who is impatient and alway looking to attack. Naturally, Westbrook doesn't wait for plays to develop so he puts Perkins in a bad spot from a screen perspective. So when you combine those two factors (Perkins being slow, Westbrook being fast) it's clear Kendrick Perkins is in a bad position for screens more than the normal center hence setting so many illegal screens."
Good thinking!

[OKC]

Well, have a good evening guys. Maybe you can get together and try to get a disability check from Obama for all the injustices in your lives. Maybe sue the NBA for your pain and suffering, I don't know.

[Cry Havoc]

POst 86. Go read it. Your post about me denying KD whines to the refs is post #90. Last time I checked, 86 comes before 90.

Do you know what the word "responding" means? I'm not going to continually reload a page to make sure you haven't blathered more homerific nonsense about how your team doesn't get a massive quantity of calls. And I actually think before I post, so typing out thoughts actually take more than the 5 seconds it takes you to masturbate to playing 5 on 8 every game. Thanks.

[Cry Havoc]

Well, have a good evening guys. Maybe you can get together and try to get a disability check from Obama for all the injustices in your lives. Maybe sue the NBA for your pain and suffering, I don't know.

Political tripe. Thrilling. Is regurgitating Fox News the best you can do? No wonder you're incapable of seeing the truth with your own eyes.

[OKC]

It's not Perk.

It's OKC as a team, as a whole.

Your team is going to be just as good whether you admit the ref bias or not. The fact that you can't says a lot about how rose-tinted those glasses are.



Care to respond to this? Or are you just going to bandy about the fact that you have two athletic players who drive and convince yourself that the rest of the NBA is a plodding turd?

Already have. Go back to previous pages. Good evening, sir.

[DPG21920]

Well, have a good evening guys. Maybe you can get together and try to get a disability check from Obama for all the injustices in your lives. Maybe sue the NBA for your pain and suffering, I don't know.

That is a random throw away line that doesn't make sense. That would be like us saying "hey, quit crying or quit watching if you think Tim is a whiner!"

[OKC]

Political tripe. Thrilling. Is regurgitating Fox News the best you can do? No wonder you're incapable of seeing the truth with your own eyes.

All I've got. lol

[OKC]

That is a random throw away line that doesn't make sense. That would be like us saying "hey, quit crying or quit watching if you think Tim is a whiner!"

I don't whine about his whining. I just state that he whines.

[DPG21920]

You whine about Tim whining and Spurs fans whining :lol

Good evening, sir!

[OKC]

OH, also, good win from SA last night. Well deserved! Very talented team, very well coached. No Tony Parker, no problem. Pops a hell of a coach. Down big, calls a timeout, goodnight OKC! GOtta respect how he runs the ship. (not being sarcastic either)

[Cry Havoc]

I don't whine about his whining. I just state that he whines.

Is this supposed to be news? Can you name 5 players in the entire fucking league who don't whine?

In other related news, Duncan likes to play basketball! WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT.

[OKC]

Is this supposed to be news? Can you name 5 players in the entire fucking league who don't whine?

In other related news, Duncan likes to play basketball! WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT.

I named 3 on OKC's roster who do whine! lol I could probably find more than 5 in the league that don't though, yeah.

[Clipper Nation]

I can admit that Kevin gets the benefit of the whistle frequently. The problem with San Antonio Heat fans is they can't admit the same for Lebrick.
Can't call him "LeBrick" when he STAYS taking wet shits all over your whole franchise, B....

[Cry Havoc]

I named 3 on OKC's roster who do whine! lol I could probably find more than 5 in the league that don't though, yeah.

Thanks for conceding that you can't. :tu

[thunderup]

Well, have a good evening guys. Maybe you can get together and try to get a disability check from Obama for all the injustices in your lives. Maybe sue the NBA for your pain and suffering, I don't know.

:lmao OKC dropping B-52 bombs on these liberals.

[OKC]

Thanks for conceding that you can't. :tu

Dude, no, I said I COULD find 5 guys in the league who don't whine. None of them are named Westbrook, Durant, Perkins, or Duncan though.

[OKC]

Thanks for conceding that you can't. :tu
I really want some of what you're drinking tonight. I think if we sat down together and drank some of it, we'd get along. :toast

[Cry Havoc]

Dude, no, I said I COULD find 5 guys in the league who don't whine. None of them are named Westbrook, Durant, Perkins, or Duncan though.

Thanks for conceding that you can't. :tu

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao OKC dropping B-52 bombs on these liberals.

:lmao Meth making thunderup hallucinate that OKC isn't getting shat on. :lmao

[DPG21920]

I wouldn't want to drink with you. With your temper and ability to fly off the handle like Westbrook who knows what would happen :lol

[thunderup]

:lmao Meth making thunderup hallucinate that OKC isn't getting shat on. :lmao

You're like a kid, partner. Act like your team has won and isn't a loser like the LA Clippers

[Clipper Nation]

Well, have a good evening guys. Maybe you can get together and try to get a disability check from Obama for all the injustices in your lives. Maybe sue the NBA for your pain and suffering, I don't know.
Funny stuff, considering your team is the ones living off handouts from Stern.... meanwhile, the rest of us are arguing for the libertarian laissez-faire approach of letting the players determine the final score instead of the league office :lol

[Cry Havoc]

You're like a kid, partner. Act like your team has won and isn't a loser like the LA Clippers

And you OKC fans are acting like you've won something? Wtf is this?

:lol Talking smack like you've ever done anything meaningful in the NBA.

:lol Accusing other fans of not acting like they've been there.

[Cry Havoc]

OKC is like Danica Patrick. Lots of talent, and their ability to drive is pretty, but they want to pretend like they haven't had every fucking handout along the way to get where they are. All that's missing is for her to steal someone's car and the analogy would be perfect.

[OKC]

I wouldn't want to drink with you. With your temper and ability to fly off the handle like Westbrook who knows what would happen :lol
Ah man I've not made any threatening comments to you. Westbrook just wants you to think he's crazy. He's anti confrontational. Fake tough guy I think you guys call that.

[OKC]

OKC is like Danica Patrick. Lots of talent, and their ability to drive is pretty, but they want to pretend like they haven't had every fucking handout along the way to get where they are. All that's missing is for her to steal someone's car and the analogy would be perfect.
Good bang for the buck!!

[Cry Havoc]

I really want some of what you're drinking tonight. I think if we sat down together and drank some of it, we'd get along. :toast

:toast

[lefty]

did u actually watch the game or do u just post stats and make absurd assumptions?

STFU faggot

[Clipper Nation]

You're like a kid, partner. Act like your team has won and isn't a loser like the LA Clippers
Speaking of acting like you've been there before:


looks like the Spurs blew their wad playing us. Back down to earth they go.

Posted upstairs in the first half of a regular season game, referring to another regular season game :lol

[OKC]

Hey look. I know we get a lot of foul calls. Lets just say some are deserved and some or not. Now that right there we can ALL agree to and call it a day!

[Cry Havoc]

Speaking of acting like you've been there before:



Posted upstairs in the first half of a regular season game, referring to another regular season game :lol

thunderefup has already been outed as the biggest hypocrite on the board, nothing new. OKC has had some decent takes until this thread. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

Good bang for the buck!!

Oh, and Westbrook dresses like a vagina.

[OKC]

Oh, and Westbrook dresses like a vagina.
There's some truth to that

[td4mvp2k]

Ah man I've not made any threatening comments to you. Westbrook just wants you to think he's crazy. He's anti confrontational. Fake tough guy I think you guys call that.

Ya thats why he wanted to F up the Nuggets mascot Rocky cuz he was anti confrontational... :lol

[OKC]

Ya thats why he wanted to F up the Nuggets mascot Rocky cuz he was anti confrontational... :lol
I saw him taunting Rocky and blocking his half court shots. Pretty damn funny

[td4mvp2k]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Hk85fcynE
I saw him taunting Rocky and blocking his half court shots. Pretty damn funny
what a SOB!

[ambchang]

OKC shoots 5 more FT's per game than their opponent. Yeah, without those 4 points a game they'd be pretty damn average! Anyone who thinks the only reason OKC is above mediocrity is due to shooting 5 more FTs a game than their opponent has ZERO credibility and shouldn't even discuss basketball.



Having 5 more FTs a game is quite significant. Given OKC is shooting 0.832% on FTs this season, that translates to 4.316 points per game. OKC is +9.3 per game this season, and if the 4.316 points were taken out, they will have a point differential of 4.98, closer to the Nuggets (4.6) than the Clippers (6.7). I would say going from OKC (elite) to Nuggets (a mid-tier playoff team) is a pretty darn big drop, as in one with title hopes to one without.

Add to that the effects of the difficulty of guarding a team knowing that you will be whistled for a foul on the slightest of defense, and that is another couple of points, and they could be at the Grizzlies level of +4.3 per game.

But hey, you have all the credibility on this board.

[ambchang]

I can admit that Kevin gets the benefit of the whistle frequently. The problem with San Antonio Heat fans is they can't admit the same for Lebrick.


Because Lebrick (lol, .559FG%, .4PT%, and .749FT% vs. Durant's .505, .414 and .910) shoots 6.87 FTA on 17.9 FGA, or 0.383 FTA/FTA, whereas Durant is 9.34 on 17.89 (0.52), and Westbrook is at 7 on 18.84 (0.37).

[OKC]

Having 5 more FTs a game is quite significant. Given OKC is shooting 0.832% on FTs this season, that translates to 4.316 points per game. OKC is +9.3 per game this season, and if the 4.316 points were taken out, they will have a point differential of 4.98, closer to the Nuggets (4.6) than the Clippers (6.7). I would say going from OKC (elite) to Nuggets (a mid-tier playoff team) is a pretty darn big drop, as in one with title hopes to one without.

Add to that the effects of the difficulty of guarding a team knowing that you will be whistled for a foul on the slightest of defense, and that is another couple of points, and they could be at the Grizzlies level of +4.3 per game.

But hey, you have all the credibility on this board.

In all fairness, my statement about zero credibility was in reponse to post #46 of this thread where KL2 said "Okc would be a pretty average team without the reffing they get."
Now you have to admit, that's a bit of an absurd claim. Even if I agreed to all of your points above, to say OKC is AVERAGE without foul calls is something that someone with not much knowledge of basketball would claim.

[ambchang]

In all fairness, my statement about zero credibility was in reponse to post #46 of this thread where KL2 said "Okc would be a pretty average team without the reffing they get."
Now you have to admit, that's a bit of an absurd claim. Even if I agreed to all of your points above, to say OKC is AVERAGE without foul calls is something that someone with not much knowledge of basketball would claim.

Depends on how you define average. If you take it as the strictest terms, as in 15 out of 30 teams (fringe playoff team), then yeah, it sounds absurb. But if you talk about mid-tier playoff teams being average, then the analysis seems to be spot on.

[OKC]

By the way, call me some blind homer or whatever you wanna say, but I've got Spurs fans on this board (look on page 1 of this thread) that agree with my assessment of OKC's style of play naturally lending itself to drawing more fouls - legit fouls - not this BS conspiracy, the world is against me victim mentality people wanna flaunt around here.

[OKC]

Let's focus on Westbrook. I'll concede that I can see some BS calls KD gets. The mini rip move and all of that. But for the sake of the argument let's focus on Westbrook. This dude is fouled a LOT. How can anyone deny that? He's not getting ticky tack reach in calls holding the ball in isolation. He's full tilt at the rim all game long. Easily the most aggressive player in the game, or one of. One argument here was - well Parker attacks the paint a lot too, but he doesn't get the FT love. Please don't tell me as an intelligent spurs fan that you don't see any difference in Westbrook and Parker's paint attack! Again, forget KD, I'd like to hear some opinions strictly on Westbrook. 7 FTs a game with THAT style of play? Do NOT understand the beef on that at all.

[ambchang]

I watch Parker a lot more than Westbrook, but to say that Parker get's less contact in the game is high suspicious. Parker gets lots of contact. So does Lebron, so does Wade. Westbrook is getting the Wade treatment back in 2006, and that is a shame, he doesn't need it. From what I saw, Westbrook initiates contact as much as the defender does, and yet he gets the benefit of the doubt almost every time. Many of these should be no calls.

A prime example was his half court heave in the Spurs game, nobody in their right minds would throw up that shot anticipating a call, you do that AFTER you heard the whistle, and yet he was so accustomed to getting the call that he just threw the thing from mid court expecting a call. It comes with years of conditioning, and props to the refs that time for not making the call.

[ambchang]

And BTW, Durant gets more FTAs than Westbrook, to take him entirely out of the picture is no fair, as the thread is about the Thunder as a team. Durant has a style of play similar to Gervin back in the days, while the way the game is reffed has evolved over the years with the game being MUCH more perimeter friendly, Gervin was no where close to Durant in FT attempts.

[OKC]

I watch Parker a lot more than Westbrook, but to say that Parker get's less contact in the game is high suspicious. Parker gets lots of contact. So does Lebron, so does Wade. Westbrook is getting the Wade treatment back in 2006, and that is a shame, he doesn't need it. From what I saw, Westbrook initiates contact as much as the defender does, and yet he gets the benefit of the doubt almost every time. Many of these should be no calls.

A prime example was his half court heave in the Spurs game, nobody in their right minds would throw up that shot anticipating a call, you do that AFTER you heard the whistle, and yet he was so accustomed to getting the call that he just threw the thing from mid court expecting a call. It comes with years of conditioning, and props to the refs that time for not making the call.

Let's get real now - Westbrooks gettin to the line one more time a game than Parker. One trip guys. He's making 3 more shot attempts per game - and keep in mind shot attempts do not include shot attempts where one is fouled, his approach to the basket is far more aggressive than Parker's, and the refs are awarding him ONE MORE TRIP TO THE LINE per game. Now how anyone here can put up a big argument about that is beyond me.

[ambchang]

Parker is shooting 4.9FTA/G (#19 in the league), and Westbrook is at 7 (#6 in the league), that is a difference of 2.1. That is the difference between Tony Parker and George Hill or Wesley Matthews. It's a pretty big difference.

[OKC]

Parker is shooting 4.9FTA/G (#19 in the league), and Westbrook is at 7 (#6 in the league), that is a difference of 2.1. That is the difference between Tony Parker and George Hill or Wesley Matthews. It's a pretty big difference.

It's a SINGLE trip to the FT line. 2 foul shots. Westbrook is attempting 3 more shot attempts per game than Parker - even with the 2 more FT attempts per game. With his game, averaging a SINGLE trip to the line per game more than Parker is completely reasonable and makes perfect sense. You're really arguing this?

[ambchang]

With your rationale, someone who shoots 1 FTA is only having three trips to the line less than Westbrook, and that is insignificant? Given the league leader in the game, Harden, shoots about 10.1 FTA a game, 2.1 less FTA is a 20% drop, that is quite a significant drop.

Westbrook is shooting 0.371 FTA/FGA, and Parker is shooting 0.318. That's the difference between Tony Parker and Jamal Crawford. That said, Westbrook isn't even in the top 40 in terms of FTA/FGA, the top spot belongs to, not surprisingly, Dwight Howard.

[OKC]

With your rationale, someone who shoots 1 FTA is only having three trips to the line less than Westbrook, and that is insignificant? Given the league leader in the game, Harden, shoots about 10.1 FTA a game, 2.1 less FTA is a 20% drop, that is quite a significant drop.

Westbrook is shooting 0.371 FTA/FGA, and Parker is shooting 0.318. That's the difference between Tony Parker and Jamal Crawford. That said, Westbrook isn't even in the top 40 in terms of FTA/FGA, the top spot belongs to, not surprisingly, Dwight Howard.

3 trips to the line less than another player who is reasonably comparable to you in terms of offensive capabilities would be significant, yes. There would be no point in finding a player who averaged 1 FTA per game and comparing him to Westbrook. THat's just retarded. What we're doing here is comparing 2 comparable offensive point guards and coming to the conclusion that one is granted an additional trip to the line each game. I contend that with Westbrook's style of play and higher shot volume, it makes absolute perfect sense. I do not know how one can really argue this, I'm sorry.

Ok, let's compare Westbrook to Harden. Can't play the refs love OKC card on Harden anymore, can we? So does Stern love the Rockets too? Harden is shooting 3 more FTA per game than Westbrook. 1.5 trips a game more to the line. One might say, wow that's 30% more!! Well, yeah, it is, but you often times have to put things into context when it comes to numbers. We're talking about small numbers here, with 10 being the league leader, so naturally any small deviations in the actual numbers is going to be exaggerated in percentage form. So Harden, on average, makes 1 trip, 2 trip, average it out to a trip and a half a game more to the line than Westbrook. I have no problem with that. Why? Because James Harden is the most savvy SG in the NBA. His style of driving and what he does in the paint lends itself to being fouled more than Westbrook's style does.

[OKC]

.37 FTA/FGA for Westbrook and .32 for Parker - WOW. Alert the media on that one. Again, shot attempts where one is fouled is not statistically a shot attempt. If you wanna adjust the numbers to reflect more of what is actually happening - Westbrook is actually attempting more than 18.8 shots at the rim per game, you'll find that the FTA/FGA for Westbrook and Parker are damn near identical.

[OKC]

And to be fair, KD is a different story and I'll probably side with you to a degree on some of the calls he gets and so on, but I'll support Westbrook's FTA's all day and all night because statistically his FTAs make perfect sense in comparison with the league, givn the type of player he is.

[ambchang]

I can't really comment on Harden, haven't seen him in a game this year.

And you continue to dismiss the fact that the difference between Westbrook and Parker is insignificant, I am saying it's not. In terms of FTA, Westbrook > Parker the same amount as Parker > George Hill. That is a pretty significant difference. In terms of FTA/FGA, it's in the same realm as Parker to Crawford, again, quite a significant difference.

And using shots at rim in and of itself is questionable, other shots such as shots from 3 to 5 feet are important as well. Accordingly to hoopdata, Westbrook is attempting 6.6 shots at the rim per game, and 1.4 from 3 to 9 feet, while Parker is at 5.8 and 2.4. it actually skews the number even further in Westbrook's favour.

Westbrook's FTA/FGA at the rim = 1.06, while Parker is sitting at 0.845. If you extend that to include the shots from 3 to 9 feet as well, the numbers are 0.875 and 0.598.

And yes, there is a huge conspiracy that Stern would love to prop up the Rockets as it is huge for the Chinese market. I don't buy it, and neither do I buy the theory that Stern is propping up OKC, but they do get friendly whistles.

[OKC]

I get your point, but you always have to look beyond stats. Parker's a smart player. Much smarter than Westbrook. Parker is fantastic. You can't tell me that Parker doesn't get more clean looks at the rim. You can't also tell me he's not shooting a LOT more floaters in that 3-5 foot range. Not saying Parker is afraid of contact,but he's MUCH more savvy in the paint than Westbrook. More patient, baits defenders more...Parker's ability to get to the rim cleanly is remarkable. Almost like JJ Barea..guy is 5'8 and he's shooting uncontested layups. This plays into FTAs honestly. So Parker gets a trip to the line more than George Hill..Ok...? What's your point. Makes sense to me. Hill's attempting 4 fewer shots a game and is chucking up 3 more 3 pointers a game than Parker. Of course Parker is gonna make an extra trip to the line. I get that the 2 FT difference between Parker and Hill makes more sense to you in terms of stats, but again I think you have to consider the very noticeable difference in how Parker attacks the paint with how Westbrook does.

[OKC]

Yeah we get friendly whistles. I'm pointing to KD on that mainly. I think Westbrook is a damn animal in the paint and the dude is legitametly fouled a lot. I see no favoritism with Westbrook, I really don't. I'll agree that KD is getting some gifts. Not saying Westbrook gets NONE, but he's earning his as much as a guy can I think. And to the people who bitch that Perkins gets away with everything..come on. Perkins gets called for a ton of moving screens. I wish there was a stat on that. I guarantee he'd be way up there.

[ambchang]

My point is, the difference between Westbrook and Parker is the same as that of Parker and Hill. Parker's game is much closer to Westbrook as Hill's game is close to Parker, and yet the FT differences are the same.

Also, a savvy player will bait a defender into more fouls, gives them chances for and-1s, gets the defender in foul trouble (limiting minutes), and get easier shots (can't get easier than FT line, for most players).

[OKC]

My point is, the difference between Westbrook and Parker is the same as that of Parker and Hill. Parker's game is much closer to Westbrook as Hill's game is close to Parker, and yet the FT differences are the same.

Also, a savvy player will bait a defender into more fouls, gives them chances for and-1s, gets the defender in foul trouble (limiting minutes), and get easier shots (can't get easier than FT line, for most players).

We're talking 1 whistle a game more. I don't know how else to put it. You can't give a guy a half a whistle or a quarter of a whistle. When you're talking numbers as low as 3, 4, 5, and 7, one whistle a game is significant in terms of a percentage, but in the end it's 1 whistle a game.

[Thread]

.

Just checkin' assholes:::are you going to handle this tonite?

Por favor?

[OKC]

Just checkin' assholes:::are you going to handle this tonite?

Por favor?

Are we gonna beat Utah? Hell if I know.

[ambchang]

We're talking 1 whistle a game more. I don't know how else to put it. You can't give a guy a half a whistle or a quarter of a whistle. When you're talking numbers as low as 3, 4, 5, and 7, one whistle a game is significant in terms of a percentage, but in the end it's 1 whistle a game.

It could be zero.

[OKC]

It could be zero.

But it's not, because they're not the same player.

[Thread]

Are we gonna beat Utah?

Of course. Give it to me straight.

[ambchang]

But it's not, because they're not the same player.

Yes, and the argument is the difference comes with the name of the player, and not the exact playing style. Given the similarity in productivity, the two players should have similar number of FTAs, and yet that is not the case.

Arguments could be made for either player getting more FTA (aggressive vs. skillful styles), so the playing style, at the end of the day, should be a wash.

[OKC]

Yes, and the argument is the difference comes with the name of the player, and not the exact playing style. Given the similarity in productivity, the two players should have similar number of FTAs, and yet that is not the case.

Arguments could be made for either player getting more FTA (aggressive vs. skillful styles), so the playing style, at the end of the day, should be a wash.

It's still pretty darn close between the two...the FTA per FGA. Nothing to really write home about. On a side note, but still related, if a player attempts to dunk the ball - more times than not he'll get the benefit of the whistle on that dunk attempt. Any player. I think that's one aspect of Westbrook's game that might account for a little bit of an increase in foul calls.

[ambchang]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about whether 2 FTA a game is significant or not. I feel it is, and you don't.

Like I said earlier, both Westbrook and Parker have arguments wrt whether they should get more FTA. I don't think Parker is under represented at the FT line, I just think Westbrook is slightly over represented if Parker was used as the standard.

[look_at_g_shred]

Durant gets at least 7 calls a game. You can tell he's used to it already because before the ref blows the whistle, he's already looking at them.