ESPN.com: Spurs talking S&T with Portland, Rasho for Abdur-Rahim

[timvp]

and over the years, Foreign players are becoming better than American players, thats not an opinion that is a fact.

And yet, the number of European players who are drafted in the first round is declining.

Oops.

[ducks]

and over the years, Foreign players are becoming better than American players, thats not an opinion that is a fact.


I AGREE THEY TEACH BETTER FUDEMENTALS OVER SEAS
BUT THE NEW AGE LIMIT SHOULD HELP

[Marcus Bryant]

P.S.

Just because you are from Argentina doesn't make you a basketball god. There is one God and Emanuel is his name.

:smokin



http://www.basketnews.lt/images/players/photos/nazr_mohammed_1.jpg

...and Mohammed was his prophet?

[ace3g]

The Wizards dared Nocioni to beat them by leaving him wide open. Who won that series?

Thank you.

Oh so you expect a rookie in his first playoff series to make a game winning shot, I dont, next year Nocioni will be even better; Robert Horry wasnt clutch when he first came into the league

[ducks]

But You Expect Scola To Be Better Then Sar

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Nocioni stepped it up in the playoffs:

13 pts, 8 rebs, 2 asts, 1 blk in 34 minutes.

Bowen in the playoffs:

6 pts, 3 rebs, 2 asts 1 blk in 35 minutes

If Nocioni could become as good defensively as Bowen, then he'd be our man.

Nocioni has all the tools to be as good as Bowen,

[timvp]

The Wizards dared Nocioni to beat them by leaving him wide open. Who won that series?

Thank you.

Oh so you expect a rookie in his first playoff series to make a game winning shot, I dont, next year Nocioni will be even better; Robert Horry wasnt clutch when he first came into the league

It wasn't for one play, it was for the entire series.


For the record, Andres Nocioni's birthday isn't until Nov. 30, but the Washington Wizards weren't being literal Monday when they wished the Bulls rookie birthday greetings.

On a playground, the talk emanating from the MCI Center after practice would be translated as, "Enjoy your career night, Andres, because it's not going to be that easy the next time.''

Nocioni scored 25 points and grabbed 18 rebounds Sunday at the United Center as the Bulls beat the Wizards 103-94 in Game 1 of their first-round series.

Game 2 is Wednesday, and Wizards forward Antawn Jamison basically dared Nocioni to do it again.

''Happy birthday,'' Jamison said. ''That's all I've got to say. Happy birthday. It was a present [from the Wizards].

''We're going to keep making him beat us. If he can [keep] doing that, I'll give it to him. Hey, he was feeling it. He was yelling and clapping and rebounding and shooting shots. I applaud him. But happy birthday."

Who won that series?

Apology accepted.

[ace3g]

DO YOU WATCH ALL THE NBA OR JUST PLAYERS FROM AGRENTINE? I watch the San Antonio Spurs and only the spurs, but I know how to recognize talent when i see it

[Jdspur20]

I agree with that. I believe they need to get a young SF here ASAP to groom behind Bruce.

can't SAR play SF too???

[Marcus Bryant]

can't SAR play SF too???


...in spots.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

It wasn't for one play, it was for the entire series.



Who won that series?

Apology accepted.

Why would the whole series for the Bulls fall on Nocioni when they had Kirk, Gordon, Chandler, and Duhon on the team.

[timvp]

Why would the whole series for the Bulls fall on Nocioni when they had Kirk, Gordon, Chandler, and Duhon on the team.

Because they left his azz wide open to double team. Did you watch that series?

[Karl Mundt]

It's going to cost the Spurs a lot to lockup Nazr but I think that if push comes to shove and they don't have Rasho to fall back on, Holt will crack.

Well if a player like SAR is willing to come off the bench, then it's probably worth taking the risk. Holt might crack under pressure (though i'm not too sure how likely that is if Nazr commands something that Dampier makes), that's one option. An alternative is that the Spurs trade the rights to Scola and possibly Devin or Brent for some center and get someone in the draft to play back-up the 2/3 spot, but that would probably make the center position very weak, while the PF would be booming with talent.

Another question is: how do the minutes divide during the playoffs?

Horry is likely to play 20-30 minutes, Tim his usual 40, so who gets the other 26-36 minutes? Does SAR get to play garbage time or will Tim slide to center and let Nazr have that role?

[Kori Ellis]

can't SAR play SF too???

He can't really guard SF's.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Because they left his azz wide open to double team. Did you watch that series?

Not really. But 13 a game in that series is pretty damn good.

Last time I checked, Bowen is left wide open and avg. 6 points a game while being open for all those corner threes.

Did he lose us the series last year against the Lakers?

[Marcus Bryant]

Not really. But 13 a game in that series is pretty damn good.

:lol

Oh man.

[ace3g]

first of all I didnt even watch the bulls/ wizards series because I dont have cable, dumb ass and second again it is his rookie season what do you want out of him, heck atleast he was able to play in the playoffs his rookie season, next season he will be better prepared for the playoffs

Oh and hear is the killer; I want nocioni to join the spurs because of his defense and rebounding not his offense, last time I checked bowen didnt make clutch 3's as a rookie... let me check the records...yep bowen was not good offensively as a rookie in the NBA.....



so shut the f*** up and nocioni is more of a post up SF anyway you would have learned that if you watched the Olympics and World Championships

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

:lol

Oh man.

It isn't? For a rookie? In his first NBA playoffs series?

[Marcus Bryant]

Well if a player like SAR is willing to come off the bench, then it's probably worth taking the risk. Holt might crack under pressure (though i'm not too sure how likely that is if Nazr commands something that Dampier makes), that's one option. An alternative is that the Spurs trade the rights to Scola and possibly Devin or Brent for some center and get someone in the draft to play back-up the 2/3 spot, but that would probably make the center position very weak, while the PF would be booming with talent.

Another question is: how do the minutes divide during the playoffs?

Horry is likely to play 20-30 minutes, Tim his usual 40, so who gets the other 26-36 minutes? Does SAR get to play garbage time or will Tim slide to center and let Nazr have that role?


Yeah, for the time being SAR's minutes as well as Nazr's would be cut some in the postseason. I think you go with either one as the 3rd big depending on matchups.

[Marcus Bryant]

It isn't? For a rookie? In his first NBA playoffs series?


Oh wow, I'm off the 'pretend he isn't there' list. It's good to have my groupie back.

No, that's not impressive for that series.

[timvp]

first of all I didnt even watch the bulls/ wizards series because I dont have cable, dumb ass and second again it is his rookie season what do you want out of him, heck atleast he was able to play in the playoffs his rookie season, next season he will be better prepared for the playoffs

Oh and hear is the killer; I want nocioni to join the spurs because of his defense and rebounding not his offense, last time I checked bowen didnt make clutch 3's as a rookie... let me check the records...yep bowen was not good offensively as a rookie in the NBA.....



so shut the f*** up and nocioni is more of a post up SF anyway you would have learned that if you watched the Olympics and World Championships

Nice. The guy who watches games without watching them resorts to name calling.

Who said he was a postup SF?









P.S.

Again, just because he's from Argentina doesn't make him god's gift to basketball.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

I had the urge to click View Post on that post. I just did it again, that''s it though. I'm tired of losing brain cells.

So 6 pts a game is impressive for an entire post season?

[timvp]

Not really. But 13 a game in that series is pretty damn good.

Last time I checked, Bowen is left wide open and avg. 6 points a game while being open for all those corner threes.

Did he lose us the series last year against the Lakers?

Take out his miracle game one performance and then tell me his stats. He had a good game one and a good game seven.

Next year, watch how much better the Bulls play with Luol Deng back at small forward.

[Marcus Bryant]

Scoring 13 a game against the Wizards gets you NSYNC concert tix in the NBA, I believe.

[timvp]

I had the urge to click View Post on that post. I just did it again, that''s it though. I'm tired of losing brain cells.

So 6 pts a game is impressive for an entire post season?

Bowen wasn't left alone. Teams guarded him. The number of times a guard penetrated and they doubled off of Bowen from the corner can be counted on one hand.

Anyways, I wouldn't suspect you to be one to go down the this anti-Bowen road.

[ace3g]

Here is for all the people who think Nocioni doesnt have skill, heart, hustle, and doesnt play tough D (and remember he is a rookie)

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/bulls/nocioni1208.jpg
http://u.univision.com/contentroot/uol/art/images/deportes/mas/2005/04/andres_nocioni_3_ap.jpg
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/04/02/thumb/t083dh01.jpg
http://www.terra.com.mx/galeria_de_fotos/images/118/235397.jpg
http://www.gazzetta.it/Foto%20Hermes/2005/04/01/0IE94ALF--310x210.jpg
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/2005/01/22/v012266A.jpg
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/images/2004-2005/BKN0305_spurs9_bowen_tr.jpg
best picture, could be the student and the teacher in a couple of years
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-01/30/xin_360102301341316161246.jpg

enough said

[timvp]

Who said he doesn't have heart or hustle?

[td4mvp3]

Nazr needs to develop a better outside shot like Rasho has, because alot of you are saying that if we bring in SAR he will help spread the floor better, well when Nazr is out there he needs to spread the floor to, so practice a 10 to 12 ft jumper over the offseason

Again that is why I dont like this trade, we dont know how well Nazr will play next season, and if we dont have another big we will be in trouble

i don't usually hear how great a jump shooter rasho is. i'm all for this deal from what i've heard of SAR and what i've seen from rasho.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Bowen wasn't left alone. Teams guarded him. The number of times a guard penetrated and they doubled off of Bowen from the corner can be counted on one hand.

Anyways, I wouldn't suspect you to be one to go down the this anti-Bowen road.

I'm not going anti-Bowen. Bowen was one of the keys to us winning a title.

But he's no offensive threat, wouldn't you agree? So whatever he gives to us offensively is a big treat and bonus.

The same could be said for Nocioni if he were to become as good as Bowen defensively.

[freako806]

yikghgo

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Everytime I think there's hope for the human race, somebody comes along and disses Andres Nocioni.

[Useruser666]

Starting today, the Nets will indulge Shareef Abdur-Rahim with red-carpet treatment in hopes of landing their top free-agent target. Over Abdur-Rahim's two-day visit to New Jersey, the Nets will attempt to persuade the 6-9 power forward to take either their $4.9 million mid-level exception or $4.9 million trade exception. Abdur-Rahim, who is also reportedly slated to visit Sacramento later, is the key to the Nets having a successful summer. While the Nets are also interested in free-agent forwards like Donyell Marshall and Stromile Swift and restricted free agents such as Kwame Brown, their ideal successor to Kenyon Martin is Abdur-Rahim.
--New York Daily News

The Nets, who have yet to make an offer, would ideally like to sign [Shareef] Abdur-Rahim to a four-year or five-year deal worth between $22 million and $28 million. Abdur-Rahim, however, could command a deal as large as six years and $38 million if he and the Nets can work a sign-and-trade with Portland for the $4.9 million trade exception before July 29, when the trade exception expires.
--New York Daily News

[timvp]

Everytime I think there's hope for the human race, somebody comes along and disses Andres Nocioni.

You must have been really mad during that Wizards series when they were all calling him out after the first game and saying he wasn't going to do that again ... even though they were going to continue leaving him open.

[ChumpDumper]

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/bulls/nocioni1208.jpg

Is that the defense or heart part?

Shoulda just kicked him in the face.

[Marcus Bryant]

Starting today, the Nets will indulge Shareef Abdur-Rahim with red-carpet treatment in hopes of landing their top free-agent target. Over Abdur-Rahim's two-day visit to New Jersey, the Nets will attempt to persuade the 6-9 power forward to take either their $4.9 million mid-level exception or $4.9 million trade exception. Abdur-Rahim, who is also reportedly slated to visit Sacramento later, is the key to the Nets having a successful summer. While the Nets are also interested in free-agent forwards like Donyell Marshall and Stromile Swift and restricted free agents such as Kwame Brown, their ideal successor to Kenyon Martin is Abdur-Rahim.
--New York Daily News

The Nets, who have yet to make an offer, would ideally like to sign [Shareef] Abdur-Rahim to a four-year or five-year deal worth between $22 million and $28 million. Abdur-Rahim, however, could command a deal as large as six years and $38 million if he and the Nets can work a sign-and-trade with Portland for the $4.9 million trade exception before July 29, when the trade exception expires.
--New York Daily News


The Spurs can beat that with Nazr tied behind their back.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

What does New Jersey have to offer Portland? Brian Scalabrine? You can get one of those by filling up your gastank these days. Ron Mercer? Can you say dime-a-dozen dogshit?

I love these bushleague organizations run by idiots like Rod Thorn and with loser coaches like Lawrence Frank that think they have any goddamn clout in this league whatsoever. I can't think of a team with more overrated, injury prone, 35% shooting crap than the New Jersey Fucking Nets.

Thorn would give Isiah a run for his money in the jackass executive-of-the-year category.

If Shareef is truly concerned about winning, then he'll come to San Antonio. If he's like everyone else and in it for the money then he'll end up in the swamplands of Jersey or the fag parade in Sacramento.

Do we really care? Yeah I'd love to jettison Nestero-vagina but let's not sacrifice Scola to do it.

[Useruser666]

But how do you really feel Walton?

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Not sure yet.

[kskonn]

Here is for all the people who think Nocioni doesnt have skill, heart, hustle, and doesnt play tough D (and remember he is a rookie)

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/bulls/nocioni1208.jpg

Foul

http://u.univision.com/contentroot/uol/art/images/deportes/mas/2005/04/andres_nocioni_3_ap.jpg

Foul

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/04/02/thumb/t083dh01.jpg

Foul

http://www.terra.com.mx/galeria_de_fotos/images/118/235397.jpg

Blocked

http://www.gazzetta.it/Foto%20Hermes/2005/04/01/0IE94ALF--310x210.jpg

Can't tell

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/2005/01/22/v012266A.jpg

hope it wasn't a pump fake

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/images/2004-2005/BKN0305_spurs9_bowen_tr.jpg

Good Block

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-01/30/xin_360102301341316161246.jpg

Charge

enough said

[Kori Ellis]

What does New Jersey have to offer Portland? Brian Scalabrine? You can get one of those by filling up your gastank these days. Ron Mercer? Can you say dime-a-dozen dogshit?

NJ isn't talking about trading for Abdur-Rahim. They are talking about signing him outright, and he already has a good relationship with Frank and Jason Kidd.

I'm sure that Kidd and Vince as teammates are tempting to some players.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

They'll have to trade. Abdur-Rahim won't play for the MLE. All it takes is one team to offer a sign-and-trade and then this becomes way more complicated than which teams have the MLE at their disposal.

[Kori Ellis]

They'll have to trade. Abdur-Rahim won't play for the MLE. All it takes is one team to offer a sign-and-trade and then this becomes way more complicated than which teams have the MLE at their disposal.

Well the only teams he's talking to so far are NJ and Sac .. they are both talking about signing him for the MLE.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Wait and see my friend.........and thank you again Kori for your offer to stay at your place. We decided (regretfully) to attend game four in Detroit since I was there on business at the time anyways.

What a horrible night that was.

When we do come to San Antonio, Walton owes you and your worse half big time. Food and drinks will be on me.....with TwoHandJam's money of course.

[Kori Ellis]

Wait and see my friend.........and thank you again Kori for your offer to stay at your place. We decided (regretfully) to attend game four in Detroit since I was there on business at the time anyways.

What a horrible night that was.

When we do come to San Antonio, Walton owes you and your worse half big time. Food and drinks will be on me.....with TwoHandJam's money of course.

I think he wants more than the MLE too. But maybe he'll realize he's been overpaid for the past few seasons and want to balance it out.

I'm not sure if the Nets have the fast track on him or not, but Frank was at Abdur-Rahim's house on the first night of free agency at midnight and now A-R is in NJ for a couple days. I think eventually whoever gets him will sign-and-trade though.

Yeah, I lived through watching shitty Spurs games at the Forum and Staples Center, so I know what you felt like in Detroit.

Hopefully you guys will eventually be able to visit San Antonio.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

If he's paid more than the MLE, then he's being over paid.

[ducks]

Who Sar?
A GUY WHO CAN PUT UP 20?






PS WHAT SHOULD SCOLA MAKE?

[ducks]

If he's paid more than the MLE, then he's being over paid.


I WOULD AGREE IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SCOLA :smokin

[Extra Stout]

P.S.

Again, just because he's from Argentina doesn't make him god's gift to basketball.Are you sure? I was thinking maybe that if the Spurs signed Scola, Oberto, Sanchez, and Hermann, traded for Nocioni, dumped the black in their color scheme in favor of sky blue, adopted a little smiling gold sun as a secondary logo, and had Tony Parker exchange Eva for Pampita, they'd go 82-0 and 16-0 in the playoffs.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Who Sar?
A GUY WHO CAN PUT UP 20?






PS WHAT SHOULD SCOLA MAKE?

He can put up 20?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?! But only put up 16 last year!?!?!?!?!!?!!!!!

Yeah, he deserves more than the MLE.... :rolleyes

As for Scola... he doesn't deserve the full MLE... he deserves TEH MAX!!!

[timvp]

Are you sure? I was thinking maybe that if the Spurs signed Scola, Oberto, Sanchez, and Hermann, traded for Nocioni, dumped the black in their color scheme in favor of sky blue, adopted a little smiling gold sun as a secondary logo, and had Tony Parker exchange Eva for Pampita, they'd go 82-0 and 16-0 in the playoffs.

You might be on to something...

:smokin

[Extra Stout]

Dear Monsignior Murphy,

There is little purpose in arguing with 19-year-old real estate geeks.

[ducks]

He can put up 20?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?! But only put up 16 last year!?!?!?!?!!?!!!!!

Yeah, he deserves more than the MLE.... :rolleyes

As for Scola... he doesn't deserve the full MLE... he deserves TEH MAX!!!

WELL ALOT OF PLAYERS ARE OVERPAID ACCORDING TO YOU IF YOU HAVE TO PUT UP MORE THEN 16 POINTS A GAME TO DESERVE MORE THEN THE MLE

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

WELL ALOT OF PLAYERS ARE OVERPAID ACCORDING TO YOU IF YOU HAVE TO PUT UP MORE THEN 16 POINTS A GAME TO DESERVE MORE THEN THE MLE

You bet your ass a lot of players are overpaid,

If Michael fucking Redd is getting MAX money you bet your ass he's being overpaid along with 70% of the league.

If you want to get tech. the entire fucking league is getting overpaid. Over a millions dollars A YEAR to play basketball? :lol

[itzsoweezee]

forget rasho's defensive abilities. spurs have a problem scoring. and muhammad is a clearly better offensive player than rasho (the pistons series notwithstanding - just imagine quickly rasho, a 7 footer who can't dunk, would've folded against Detroit. At least nazr rebounded and blocked.)

[boutons]

"at least nazr rebounded and blocked"

Nazr was marginal vs Detroit. He held the fort, as well as Rasho could have done, until Robert could come in to close the game.

[BronxCowboy]

Whatever you guys think of Rasho, SAR is never going to make the Spurs better. Maybe the Hawks, maybe. But he is by no means a prize. I would be more excited if the target was Donyell Marshall.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

[qutoe]The Wizards dared Nocioni to beat them by leaving him wide open. Who won that series?

Thank you.

Oh so you expect a rookie in his first playoff series to make a game winning shot, I dont, next year Nocioni will be even better; Robert Horry wasnt clutch when he first came into the league[/quote]

ace,

What does being a rookie have to do with not being able to hit a jump shot?

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

ace,

What does being a rookie have to do with not being able to hit a jump shot?

You tell him!

Signed,

Kobe Bryant

[Extra Stout]

Robert Horry wasnt clutch when he first came into the league

It didn't take long... maybe if only Horry had been from Argentina instead of Alabama he'd have become clutch more quickly.

[ace3g]

What does being a rookie have to do with not being able to hit a jump shot?

could you hit an open jump shot, as a rookie in the nba in the playoffs, and considering the fact that Nocioni is a post up SF not a jump shooting SF

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

could you hit an open jump shot, as a rookie in the nba in the playoffs, and considering the fact that Nocioni is a post up SF not a jump shooting SF

Could I? Hell yes!

Signed,

Kobe Bryant

[ace3g]

kobe is a shooting guard, kobe doesnt post up against his opponet most of the time, like nocioni does

and from what I have seen, Nocioni has the same shooting style as brent barry, so give him a year to develop a reliable jump shot; sort of like what bowen did; oh wait did bowen come into the league nailing jumpshots and game winners no; like bowen nocioni is a defensive player first than offense so anything you get on the offensive end is a bonus and you wouldnt be talking trash if nocioni was playing for us and got some sick block on the likes of kobe, tmac, or lebron and hit a big shot down the stretch

and yes nocioni has the ability to do so

[SequSpur]

Kobe always posts up.

[ace3g]

ok let me restate this, nocioni is built to post up, kobe is not

[ace3g]

It didn't take long... maybe if only Horry had been from Argentina instead of Alabama he'd have become clutch more quickly.

I never said all players that come out of Argentina are NBA superstars, but what I did say was that about 90 percent of the players on the Argentina NT are NBA ready

[ace3g]

all it takes is to watch a few game videos of the Argentina NT in the World Championships and Olympics to see that Manu,Nocioni,Scola,Oberto,and delfino are nba ready

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Ace,

I'm on your side when it comes to expected a rookie to be clutch.

Kobe in his rookie year and in the playoffs, air balled three 3 pointers in a row.

[drivanroca]

all it takes is to watch a few game videos of the Argentina NT in the World Championships and Olympics to see that Manu,Nocioni,Scola,Oberto,and delfino are nba ready

Argentina National TEAM has a SuperSTAR: MANU

The others are good players. Good role players in the NBA


;)

[exstatic]

Damn. OK, follow me on this. We trade Malik for Nazr, making Rasho available to trade for SAR. Fleaflicker's Kersey for Rahim trade almost happened. :lol [/jurassic skool]

[spur219]

Bring SAR over.

[ace3g]

I know you are, I just hate these people, because they are the same people that probably badmouthed Manu before he came into the league saying things like,

"just because he is called the 'best SG in europe' doesnt mean he can play in the NBA"

because they are the same people that are talking sh** about Scola and how he hasnt proven himself yet in the NBA, but playing against some of the leagues all stars in the Olympics and World Championships proves he is

[smeagol]

Relax ace3g, just as there are some Argentines who act like idiots in this forum, there sure are some gringos that act some dickheads too.

[ace3g]

I am not from Argentina I am from San Antonio, I dont know who ever came up with that idea that I was from Argentina

[whottt]

I know you are, I just hate these people, because they are the same people that probably badmouthed Manu before he came into the league saying things like,

"just because he is called the 'best SG in europe' doesnt mean he can play in the NBA"


Prove the people you are arguing with now said that...

I mean how can you know who said what? I don't remember you being here then...matter of fact...I don't remember you being here at all...

I see you come after he just won a title and start putting words in peoples mouths.



because they are the same people that are talking sh** about Scola and how he hasnt proven himself yet in the NBA, but playing against some of the leagues all stars in the Olympics and World Championships proves he is

Manu>Scola...

If you don't see it then I am certainly not surprised seeing as how you can't tell the difference between the leagues.


This is coming from a Manu bandwaggoner from day 1...

The MVP in those Euroleagues this season, was an NBA washout.

Success in one does not translate to success in the other...

Do you see the beest PF in the NBA going to play off the bench in the Euro leagues?

No you do not...On the day you see that happen? Then you might have a point...

[ace3g]

I decided to join the forum today because I was tired of hearing people badmouth Scola, I have always visited this forum as a guest

[ace3g]

Success in one does not translate to success in the other...

so why did manu blossom as a player in the nba

[NCaliSpurs]

Success in one does not translate to success in the other...

so why did manu blossom as a player in the nba

Different styles of ball. Some styles will translate (Kobe's game will be awesome on any court, by any rules), and some might not (undersized power forwards whose offense relies on finesse).

[NCaliSpurs]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim would be an awesome addition to the club.

He is a decent rebounder, and more importantly, he can put the rock in the hole from the inside (READ: His game will complement Horry's and Nazr's) and he can hit from the long-mid-range (READ: His game will complement Duncan's).

If you can get a 20 and 9 guy on your team, you grab him.

He can ALWAYS be traded for a SF later, because teams are more willing to trade for size.

[ace3g]

but it is just the fact of losing a true nba center for another PF

[whottt]

so why did manu blossom as a player in the nba

Because he's Manu...

Would you like a list of guys who sucked in the NBA but blossomed in Europe?

It's a long one.

Would you like a list of players who played great in Europe but sucked in the NBA?

Do you think it's easy to do what Manu did?

Do you think it's something that just anyone who is good in Europe can do?

I am sorry my friend...but the Scola doubters are not the ones dissing Manu...

You are.

[Kori Ellis]

I decided to join the forum today because I was tired of hearing people badmouth Scola, I have always visited this forum as a guest

Doubting Scola isn't equivalent to bad mouthing him. The Spurs had reservations about him in the past -- his defense and his rebounding -- it has been well-documented. He had a great season this year, so perhaps he's gotten better in those areas (which are necessary for success on the Spurs). So maybe he'll come over and everyone's doubts will be erased. But you can't blame people for doubting.

[timvp]

We get it, ace3g. Scola is from Argentina where Manu is from. He's called the best at his position, just like Manu. He was teammates with Manu on the team that beat the US twice. Thus, he MUST be as good as Manu. Nice attempt but in the real world it isn't that simple.

I was just thinking that the Spurs can actually try to get more out of Portland than just SARS. Since SARS could just walk, trading with the Spurs is a bonus for Portland. The Blazers have some nice, young long small forwards that could be thrown into a deal. Travis Outlaw is 6-foot-9 and pretty much a domesticated version of Darius Miles. Viktor Khryapa is another 6-foot-9 small forward who has skills. Sergey Monya is a 6-foot-7 swingman who they drafted and is currently overseas.

Rasho Nesterovic for Abdur-Rahim and one of those players would be nice. Or Nesterovic and Scola for Abdur-Rahmin, one of those prospects and an unprotected lottery pick would work.

:smokin

[constantstate]

Doubting Scola isn't equivalent to bad mouthing him. The Spurs had reservations about him in the past -- his defense and his rebounding -- it has been well-documented. He had a great season this year, so perhaps he's gotten better in those areas (which are necessary for success on the Spurs). So maybe he'll come over and everyone's doubts will be erased. But you can't blame people for doubting.

i've heard he's short, slow, tiny arms, cant jump. thats not doubt, that bordering on defamation. the same people who "doubt" also call the people with moderate expectations of him, argentinian lovers... or that somehow because we'd like to see how/what this guy can do... that we all think he's manu! (nuts) - its pure hate, not love for another guy at his spot.

[Kori Ellis]

i've heard he's short, slow, tiny arms, cant jump. thats not doubt, that bordering on defamation

Who said that?

You might have heard he's short for an NBA power forward at 6'8.
You might have heard he's too slow to play small forward in the NBA.
You might have heard he's not a good jumper compared to the NBA leapers.

That's not defamation or hate. You are just twisting.

[ace3g]

ofcourse he got better, he is only like 25, and whoot I would never diss Manu, he is my favorite player; I would never even think about saying something bad about him; sure scola maybe an undersized PF and still needs to work on his rebounding and defense but he has alot more + to him than he does -

the reason why I keep saying why did manu blossom as a player in the nba was to make a point, when he played in overseas he was called "the best SG in Europe" and that was way after the spurs drafted him in 99; so the spurs must have seen something in Scola to draft him way before he got the title of "the best PF in Europe"

I bet alot of you didnt even know who manu was before 2003; I knew manu would be something special right after I heard he was going to be drafted in 99 and I have the same feelings about Scola. So dont ever say that I was dissing Manu; far from it

If the spurs are going to use rasho as trade bait they should go after a young SF like Nocioni because a lineup of

C: Nazr,?
PF: Duncan, Scola
SF: Bowen, Nocioni
SG: Manu, Bowen, Barry, Brown
PG: Parker, Beno, Barry

is better than

C: Nazr , ?
PF: Duncan, SAR, Scola
SF: Bowen, Brown
SG: Manu, Barry, Brown
PG: Parker, Beno, Barry

[timvp]

I would love for Scola to come here and pair with Manu to take over the world. But if the Spurs decide to trade him because they don't believe he fits well, they should be able to get a lot back.

[Sii]

Pop himself has compared him to Manu...basically saying he plays the game like Manu does only at a different spot on the floor. Pop sure seemed high on the guy on a recent show

[ace3g]

because pop and the spurs are high on scola and will not trade him, if they were going to do that, they would have done it a couple of years ago

[constantstate]

Who said that?

You might have heard he's short for an NBA power forward at 6'8.
You might have heard he's too slow to play small forward in the NBA.
You might have heard he's not a good jumper compared to the NBA leapers.

That's not defamation or hate. You are just twisting.
i'm just saying that its pretty awesome to watch... and that i actually dig the guy more because of it. i think people are twisting though. it seems that if you say you want to watch him play... people tell you you're a manu fan with high expectations of him.

[Manu20]

I will be happy if the Spurs can get either Scola or SAR. But I think the Spurs will be a better team with SAR in the roster.

[whottt]

Pop himself has compared him to Manu...basically saying he plays the game like Manu does only at a different spot on the floor. Pop sure seemed high on the guy on a recent show

Yeah?

And RC pissed him off bigtime during the Olympics by calling him out on his rebounding and defense.

[ace3g]

Scola is from Argentina where Manu is from. He's called the best at his position, just like Manu. He was teammates with Manu on the team that beat the US twice. Thus, he MUST be as good as Manu. Nice attempt but in the real world it isn't that simple.

I never said that; and second of all like Manu I looked at how Scola played for his other European teams like TAU. I never said he was as good as Manu; and he plays in Europe which gives him an advantage over NBA players, he has to play in arenas and places that no one would want to play in. Also Scola is the 2nd best player on the Argentina NT and that is pretty good considering all the great players on that team.

Also I have seen Scola block shots and play defense; he needs some improvements but not alot.

[whottt]

ofcourse he got better, he is only like 25, and whoot I would never diss Manu, he is my favorite player; I would never even think about saying something bad about him; sure scola maybe an undersized PF and still needs to work on his rebounding and defense but he has alot more + to him than he does -

the reason why I keep saying why did manu blossom as a player in the nba was to make a point, when he played in overseas he was called "the best SG in Europe" and that was way after the spurs drafted him in 99; so the spurs must have seen something in Scola to draft him way before he got the title of "the best PF in Europe"

I bet alot of you didnt even know who manu was before 2003; I knew manu would be something special right after I heard he was going to be drafted in 99 and I have the same feelings about Scola. So dont ever say that I was dissing Manu; far from it

If the spurs are going to use rasho as trade bait they should go after a young SF like Nocioni because a lineup of

C: Nazr,?
PF: Duncan, Scola
SF: Bowen, Nocioni
SG: Manu, Bowen, Barry, Brown
PG: Parker, Beno, Barry

is better than

C: Nazr , ?
PF: Duncan, SAR, Scola
SF: Bowen, Brown
SG: Manu, Barry, Brown
PG: Parker, Beno, Barry

I think Manu was considered to be the best player in Europe period at the time he came over...and even that's not a gurantee for success in the NBA.

You need to listen to Manu...he'll be the first to say he had a tough time adjusting.

[timvp]

I never said that; and second of all like Manu I looked at how Scola played for his other European teams like TAU. I never said he was as good as Manu; and he plays in Europe which gives him an advantage over NBA players, he has to play in arenas and places that no one would want to play in. Also Scola is the 2nd best player on the Argentina NT and that is pretty good considering all the great players on that team.

Also I have seen Scola block shots and play defense; he needs some improvements but not alot.

If the Spurs scouts think he can't fit, do you trust them?

Or do you just want him brought over no matter what?

[ace3g]

well if the scouts changed their thoughts on Scola, they did it recently and drastically

[timvp]

well if the scouts changed their thoughts on Scola, they did it recently and drastically

And the answer to the questions ...


*drumroll*

[E20]

I'm having second thoughts on the trade Rasho debates. We would have Nazr at center and Tim and Scola(if we get him) as the PF's. Now who play's backup C? Robert is supposed to play limited minutes in the season to keep him fresh for the playoff's but we'd be lacking depth at the C postion.

[td4mvp3]

why would it be inconceivable that we could pick up a back up center? isn't dikembe out there? who else center wise is available this year?

[ace3g]

that is the reason why the spurs should keep rasho, because to have 2 reliable C is a great thing. then sign Scola

because look at this possible front line

Duncan,Nazr,Rasho,Scola,Horry

unless the spurs try to trade rasho for a young SF or another C I am always going to be against it

[E20]

I don't know, I'm just gonna say fuck it and let the Spurs FO handle it, no point in arguing over the internet.

[timvp]

If the Spurs scouts think he can't fit, do you trust them?

Or do you just want him brought over no matter what?

Bump for ace.

[ace3g]

here are available C FA

Kevin Willis
Eddy Curry
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Elden Campbell
Dale Davis
Dan Gadzuric
Tony Battie
Dalembert
Kwame Brown
Mutombo
Steven Hunter
Jake Voskuhl
tony massenburg
Jerome James

[ace3g]

plus the spurs could try to go after Oberto for a Vet Min contract

I would also like them to go after Jon Barry with a Vet Min Contract

and then whatever is left from the MLE give it to Gerald Wallace

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What worries me is that SAR is not much of a defender, he is a tweener (a SF in a PFs body), and his heart is questionable. Also, he doesn't want to warm the bench - he wants to start!

How about Stomile Swift instead? He's active, blocks shots, rebounds, finishes well on the break. On the downside, apparently his ball IQ is a little low.

Still think Swift plus Scola makes us much better though.

[Sii]

Pop on Scola


“what he is, is a very, very heady player. He's probably the best forward in Europe right now,” Pop told us. “He's more like Malik than he is like Robert Horry. Although, he's a decent mid-range shooter. What he is is a worker, a rebounder, great hands. He can score under the bucket at about 6’9”. He's like Manu. He knows how to play. He knows how to win.”

[ace3g]

yes, someone finally posted that quote from pop,

Pop doesnt usually have alot of hype for players but when he does, it is a good sign

[ChumpDumper]

Pop doesnt usually have alot of hype for players but when he does, it is a good signYeah, his trade value will never be higher....

[ace3g]

but the spurs are not going to trade scola

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure you can find some great quotes from Pop pimping Malik Rose last season as well.

[Sii]

WOAI says the Spurs can pay SAR 10 MILLION more than NJ though the sign and trade Portland wants. 10 mil more than NJ to play with the champs? how could SAR turn that down?

[whottt]

Hmmm...that sounds like the Spurs will be moving more than just Rasho doesn't it?

[midgetonadonkey]

WOAI says the Spurs can pay SAR 10 MILLION more than NJ though the sign and trade Portland wants. 10 mil more than NJ to play with the champs? how could SAR turn that down?

I thought all they had was the MLE. How can they pay 10 mil? If they could, would that keep them from resigning Brown? I think they need to groom Brown to be the next SF after Bowen loses a step instead of going after yet another 4.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

I thought all they had was the MLE. How can they pay 10 mil? If they could, would that keep them from resigning Brown? I think they need to groom Brown to be the next SF after Bowen loses a step instead of going after yet another 4.

It would be a sign and trade. The Spurs can probably offer more because they'll have the cap space towards the end of contract.

[Useruser666]

It would be a sign and trade. The Spurs can probably offer more because they'll have the cap space towards the end of contract.

Yeah, the ten million should be over the course of the entire contract. I like Rasho for SARS. We got Mass or what ever washes up to play backup.

[timvp]

No, that was just fuzzy math by WOAI. The had the graphic on the screen and it was all wrong.

The truth is if the Spurs do a sign-and-trade with the Blazers, it'll be more than the MLE. How much more? Not sure.

Rasho for SARS and Outlaw/Viktor/Sergey?

Yes, please.

:drunk

[Samr]

It comes down to would you rather have depth at the center, or tallent at the forwards. To me, if you can upgrade the overall tallent level with a trade, then do it.

I think the league is moving away from the dominant centers alltogether, and just going with two forwards. Nazr is a power forward. Duncan is a power forward. SAR is a power forward. Scola is a power forward. There you have it. The rotation for the PF1 and PF2 spots.

Sorry, but the league is gravitating towards smaller, more athletic bigs. Why miss out on the opportunity to jump on the boat?

[ChumpDumper]

With the new CBA, the Spurs could make a sign and trade for SARS using only Rasho and start Rahim at $8.5 million.

Unlikely, but he could in theory be making Parker money.

[timvp]

With the new CBA, the Spurs could make a sign and trade fir SARS using only Rasho and start Rahim at $8.5 million.

Unlikely, but he could in theory be making Parker money.

Indeed.

Do you think the Spurs could squeeze out one of those three prospects I've mentioned? Who would you prefer?

[whottt]

With the new CBA, the Spurs could make a sign and trade fir SARS using only Rasho and start Rahim at $8.5 million.

Unlikely, but he could in theory be making Parker money.

I wonder if he's going to want more than that since it's a S&T...

I think we should just offer him the MLE...it's not like he's a winner or anything...if he wants the Nets MLE over ours...fuck him..let him lose...

The Nets look to be in slightly worse shape than Portland was when he got there...I'd say his streak of never making the playoffs has a good chance of continuing.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

He didn't say "10mil", he said "10mil more" - that would be over the life of the contract I assume.

[whottt]

Portland is not going to give us any of their prospects...they'll probably tell us and SAR to go screw...

Would you do it if you were them?

[picnroll]

Not Outlaw for sure.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you think the Spurs could squeeze out one of those three prospects I've mentioned?Not really.
I think we should just offer him the MLE.Maybe we have plans for the MLE as well....

[midgetonadonkey]

Fuck that, we don't need him. I wouldn't sign him for 10 mil+. Like the dude before me said, let his ass go to the Nets. SAR should be thankful that a team as good as the Spurs would even consider taking him. He should be willing to take less to get a ring.

[Sii]

they'll probably tell us and SAR to go screw...

then why are they trying to work a deal to get Rasho for SAR according to reports?

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

No, that was just fuzzy math by WOAI. The had the graphic on the screen and it was all wrong.

The truth is if the Spurs do a sign-and-trade with the Blazers, it'll be more than the MLE. How much more? Not sure.

Rasho for SARS and Outlaw/Viktor/Sergey?

Yes, please.

:drunk

Outlaw?

Viktor? Why give up on him?

[whottt]

then why are they trying to work a deal to get Rasho for SAR according to reports?

That's one thing...trying to get prospects out of Portland with him is another thing entirely...

[timvp]

Outlaw?

Viktor? Why give up on him?


I'm talking about Travis Outlaw, Viktor Kryapa and Sergey Monia ... AKA Portland small forward youngsters Spurs could try to get their hands on.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

I'm talking about Travis Outlaw, Viktor Kryapa and Sergey Monia ... AKA Portland small forward youngsters Spurs could try to get their hands on.

Oh... I thought you were talking about Bo Outlaw, Viktor we drafted, and the Russian we drafted.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't think Portland is goign to agree to any of this. When it comes down to it, I don't think Rasho is attractive as we think he is. Yes some teams would like him, but didn't alot of players get overpaid last summer?

I mean, wasn't the market really high and everyone was like holy shit this player got X amount of money

and the next guy was like yeah it was the market this summer, you gotta pay accordingly

Rasho isn't worth his contract, if he was on a cheaper contract I would want to keep him, but I don't see teams needing size that bad to want to take on Rasho's contract and at the same time give up a good player.

Portland and SAR seems like a decent reason for getting rid of him (spacing) but I doubt they throw in a young prospect as well.

I would do the trade definitely, but only if they also have plans for a young SF god dammit!

[Marcus Bryant]

timvp is dead on about squeezing Portland for something extra. SAR is apparently considering walking away for nothing. If they deal with the Spurs they get a legit starting center back with a decent contract that isn't too long.

As for Scola, nobody knows for certain how his game will translate into the NBA. I will say that given Manu's success and the hype surrounding Scola that if you were going to deal him and perhaps get someone to overpay for him that now would be the time.

[ChumpDumper]

I mean, wasn't the market really high and everyone was like holy shit this player got X amount of moneyRasho got less than market value.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Rasho got less than market value.


Do you say that bc of Minny offering him more

This Scola talk is so ridiculous. SARS (lol) is a proven scorer...he's played many seasons in the premier basketball league in the world...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Maybe we've been thinking about this all wrong.

What if they're thinking about starting Tim and Shareef side by side, then bringing Nazr in as the backup five?

Then you got Horry at the four, and can also bring in (potentially) Scola to play backup.

Just thinking out loud here...

As for the 10 million, that wouldn't be unfeasible at all. To come in 10 million more than the Nets over the life of a five year deal the Spurs could start SAR off at 1.5 million above the MLE (6.6 million).

If we could pry away one of the Portland SFs in the process, even better. Maybe we let Pritchard go to Portland to hook us up from the inside [/evil thoughts]

[Marcus Bryant]

SAR for the MLE is a steal. Ditto for getting him for Rasho. Sometimes, opportunities just fall into your lap. This is one of those times.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Can't Be Faded -

The difference here is SAR is threatening to walk without Portland getting anything back in return.

Given that, they suddenly have to be a lot more attentive to what the Spurs are saying.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think Portland has much incentive to throw in one of their young prospects. they're rebuilding anyway - they can do that just as easily without Rasho. He just happens to fit their offense better than Joel.

[ducks]

would you trade scola and rasho for sar and those draft prospects?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Can't Be Faded -

The difference here is SAR is threatening to walk without Portland getting anything back in return.

Given that, they suddenly have to be a lot more attentive to what the Spurs are saying.


ahh i see

but i still am skeptical. It reminds me last year and the Jermaine O'Neal talk.

[mattyc]

Travis Outlaw put up 32/5 in the summer league.

Either way, you do this trade.

[ChumpDumper]

would you trade scola and rasho for sar and those draft prospects?That might help -- They have a ton of other possible deals to make though. Get greedy and SARS and the Blazers could go another direction.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The difference is Jermaine was just using us for leverage for a max deal and incentives with Indy.

SAR is hanging out in NJ, from where Portland is sitting they're fixing to lose arguably their third or fourth best player for nothing.

When you're faced with that reality, suddenly a trade for Rasho doesn't sound so bad.

Plus, CIA Pop has Pritchard on the inside :hat

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The difference is Jermaine was just using us for leverage for a max deal and incentives with Indy.

SAR is hanging out in NJ, from where Portland is sitting they're fixing to lose arguably their third or fourth best player for nothing.

When you're faced with that reality, suddenly a trade for Rasho doesn't sound so bad.

Plus, CIA Pop has Pritchard on the inside :hat



:elephant CIA Pop ownzzzz :elephant

[ducks]

I agree getting greedy is not to smart one
I would throw in scola to get a long three prospect of portland's
they would address a need there


portland could call sar bluff
it is not the only time he has mentioned coming to sa

one thing is the spurs did trade da to portland...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

i'd rather have marshall than SARS
i'd rather have SARS than scola
i'd rather have an athletic tall man than SARS
i'd rather have any athletic small forward than SARS Scola or Marshall

[ChumpDumper]

i'd rather have marshall than SARSMaybe the plan is both.
i'd rather have any athletic small forward than SARS Scola or MarshallANY one?

Not me.

Many of those guys suck.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Maybe the plan is both.ANY one?

Not me.

Many of those guys suck.

well i guess i should have said A not Any

he has to have the spurs work ethic to develop his talents of course

[slayermin]

I love Scola but if the Spurs could get Outlaw and SAR together, that would be very tempting. Outlaw has all the tools and some to be the next Bruce Bowen.

[ace3g]

what happens if Nazr has a great season and we are unable to pay him the type of money his agent is looking for; then we are left with no starting Center

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's why you extend him this summer and then you don't have anything to worry about except building a bigger trophy case.

[ace3g]

yeah that would be a big problem, when the spurs have won championships, they have had a reliable big man next to tim

[Kori Ellis]

Just a note:

Miami likely will focus on acquiring Portland forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim, although New Jersey, Washington and Sacramento also are interested. Abdur-Rahim, 28, has averaged 19.8 points per game in nine seasons.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/heat/content/sports/epaper/2005/07/07/a8c_nbaroudup_0707.html

[timvp]

Washington might have some pieces Portland would like. Kwame Brown and SARS double sign and trade?

[usckk]

I say he's going to chose Miami.

[timvp]

I say he's going to chose Miami.

Straight up or S&T?

[Marcus Bryant]

What is Miami going to offer back? Shaq's wet dream doesn't count.

[slayermin]

I say he's going to chose Miami.

That means they say goodbye to Damon Jones, right?

[timvp]

That means they say goodbye to Damon Jones, right?

Yeah, if they're not going to do a S&T, that means they'll go without a PG next season.

:lol

[slayermin]

Yeah, if they're not going to do a S&T, that means they'll go without a PG next season.

:lol

And their best three point shooter. He is a big part of what they do. :lol

[Gummi]

Don't forget guys that Shareef can play the SF position pretty good. He's athletic and tall. I've seen a lot of posters wanting a tall-athletic SF. Shareef IMO is that guy.

[ace3g]

but he is not young, we want a young athletic SF, someone like Nocioni,Gerald Wallace,Bostjan Nachbar someone along those lines

[T Park]

we want a young athletic SF, someone like Nocioni,Gerald Wallace,Bostjan Nachbar

Nocioni is not that guy

Gerald Wallace is a power forward

Bostjan is reupped in New Orleans.

On that note, Reef is NOT a SF.

But Id do this trade in a NY minute.

[texbound]

Gerald Wallace is a power forward

Just to clarify, Gerald Wallace is a SF not a PF.

Position: F
Born: Jul 23, 1982
Height: 6-7 / 2,01
Weight: 215 lbs. / 97,5 kg.
College : Alabama '04

[Useruser666]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim, PF
Suitors: Blazers, Nets, Kings, Magic, Heat, Cavs, Bulls
The skinny: The Blazers love this 6-9 former All-Star's professionalism but they are rebuilding around younger players. The Nets want badly to plug him into their gaping hole at the 4 spot (where he would join fellow Cal alum Jason Kidd). Nets coach Lawrence Frank, a former assistant for the Grizzlies during Abdur-Rahim's time in Vancouver, even flew to Atlanta over the Fourth of July weekend to make a recruiting pitch. But the Nets have only their mid-level exception to offer, so any deal would likely require a sign-and-trade. Abdur-Rahim reportedly intends to visit New Jersey and Sacramento this week.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

A young guy? Shareef is just one year older than Duncan. Are you calling Rahim old?

Nachbar is re-signing with NO, Nocioni can't shoot a three to save his life, and some team is going to offer Wallace more than what we are looking to pay someone like that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim, PF
Suitors: Blazers, Nets, Kings, Magic, Heat, Cavs, Bulls

[King]

I think the Cavs are mentioned with every FA, because of all their caproom.

[Marcus Bryant]

He'd be a nice fit for them and hey, you could do worse.

[King]

Agreed, and if Michael Redd stays in Milwaukee, they could throw bigger money at him than any other team. A 20/10 guy would be great for Lebron and the Cavs. Too bad Carlos Boozer didn't see that. (Too bad many Spurs fans don't see he'd be great here).

[mattyc]

Gerald Wallace is a power forward

You reckon?

I'd be quite happy to see him trying to post up Timmy.......or even TMass.

[wildbill2u]

I agree with that. I believe they need to get a young SF here ASAP to groom behind Bruce.

Ditto. But the F.O. doesn't seem to consider it the most important problem behind a PG backup and Scola. I say leave Scola in Europe another year so we won't have to buy out his contract and use the money on a SF. What would be wrong with that?

[Marcus Bryant]

Grooming a Bowen replacement is a nice idea, but I think first and foremost you look to have experience on that roster now. The next 2 to 3 seasons will be some of the best shots the Spurs have to add more LOB trophies to the collection.

If the Spurs can land a young 3 that isn't raw via free agency, great. But if we are talking about projects like LJ3, let's pass on that for now.

[ChumpDumper]

I doubt any one player is going to replace Bowen's D. I think the best we can hope for is for Brown to take the smaller perimeter assignments and [insert Hedo-type SF here] for the larger players.

I'm fine with making one of the projects this year an SF -- we're getting by ok right now.

[zeleni]

What's Jaric done in the league? Come on.

Also, the Euro rules can help mask a lot of weaknesses for bigs that can be exposed in the NBA. Also, the caliber of bigs and especially the athleticism of bigs in the NBA is somewhat different than in Europe.

Jaric was playing with Manu, mostly being loved for his FT consistency and atlethicism. With Manu the whole team ran as hell. In the season of Kinder-miracles only Olimpija with best guards, Brezec could seriously stop Kinder. Here Jaric plays for (rejuvenated since his presence) LA Clippers... LeBron could not do more if he came from Europe.

[violentkitten]

so is this trade going to happen? if so i'm gonna pop open one and fire one up.

[ace3g]

I do believe Nocioni could be that long 3 the spurs are looking for, he is a great rebounder avg around 8 boards off then bench in the playoffs, yes I know people say he cant shoot and that cost the bulls the series against the wizards; but I didnt watch the series so I dont know about that all I know he avg 12 pts and 8 boards in his first playoff series;

G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
First Round
6 6 33.7 27-67 .403 6-17 .353 17-23 .739 1.30 6.80 8.20 2.3 .17 1.00 1.83 3.30 12.8

[ace3g]

question did Deng not play in that series against the Wizards, because on his NBA.com profile he doenst have any stats for the playoffs, did he get injured?

[rayray2k8]

wallce is a G/F and SAR is a SF
end of story...

[ReverendRob]

I believe Deng injured his wrist. If the Bulls had Deng and Curry available, no way the Wizards get past them.

SAR is a PF. Portland offered him the ability to start at the SF position but SAR didn't want that, proudly claiming that he was a PF. Your best bet is to start SAR at the 5 (Tim doesn't want to be considered a 5) and immediately move him to the 4 and Tim into a 5-ish position once the game starts. He could take some spot minutes at the 3, primarily dictated by matchups, but he would get killed out on the perimeter by some of the quicker 3s in the league.

[violentkitten]

rahim would be the main backup big in san antonio long term. nazr would be kind of a placeholder. rahim would have all of the playing time he could want in this scenario and be able to get plenty of notoriety.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

our best bet is to start SAR at the 5 (Tim doesn't want to be considered a 5) and immediately move him to the 4 and Tim into a 5-ish position once the game starts.

Tim plays the five already. You're just arguing semantics, weakly at that.

[Kori Ellis]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim, PF
Suitors: Blazers, Nets, Kings, Magic, Heat, Cavs, Bulls

I understand that he and his agent have already ruled out the Magic because he doesn't have an opportunity to start there.

I hadn't heard that the Bulls were in the mix. But I understand that the Wizards are.

[Marcus Bryant]

So the Spurs would have to offer him an "opportunity" to start. Hmmm...

[spurschick]

I understand that he and his agent have already ruled out the Magic because he doesn't have an opportunity to start there.

Is he really only considering teams that he can start for? How can that be if he is saying that the Spurs are on his short list?

[constantstate]

So the Spurs would have to offer him an "opportunity" to start. Hmmm...
he's a fa, so if he wanted to come here, he'd have to know we have a pretty good power forward already. you'd think he'd know the situation here with the 5/4 or have at least watched the playoffs. (he probably knows he's not going to start)

and if he wanted to come here for more than the mle... the portland front office would really need/want rasho and his contract... otherwise, its a favor that they dont need to offer sar... they could just let him walk without having to commit to another contract they dont need/want.

[Kori Ellis]

Is he really only considering teams that he can start for?

His agent said yesterday that they weren't considering Orlando because Dwight Howard plays the same postion and he wouldn't have an opportunity to start there.

That being said, the Magic are losers and the Spurs are winners, so I'm not sure if he'll feel the same about S.A.

[ducks]

longer this drags out the less likley it will go down

[spurschick]

His agent said yesterday that they weren't considering Orlando because Dwight Howard plays the same postion and he wouldn't have an opportunity to start there.

That being said, the Magic are losers and the Spurs are winners, so I'm not sure if he'll feel the same about S.A.

He's not an idiot - he has to know that he wouldn't start here, but I'm sure he'd get some decent minutes, he'd get to play with TD, he'd be a contender for a title... all those things must be more important than starting.

[Kori Ellis]

He's not an idiot - he has to know that he wouldn't start here, but I'm sure he'd get some decent minutes, he'd get to play with TD, he'd be a contender for a title... all those things must be more important than starting.

Well for all we know, Timmy might have told the Spurs brass that he's willing to start at C if they can get a 20ppg scorer next to him. :lol

[spurschick]

Well for all we know, Timmy might have told the Spurs brass that he's willing to start at C if they can get a 20ppg scorer next to him. :lol

:lol Oh man!! That would be some good times.

[constantstate]

Well for all we know, Timmy might have told the Spurs brass that he's willing to start at C if they can get a 20ppg scorer next to him. :lol
that would be an awesome idea. nazr could come in for tim. duncan/horry for sar. that would kill.

[ducks]

signing nazr to an extension just got harder if nazr wants to start

[FilSpursFan]

To me SAR and Scola are in the same boat, neither have played in an NBA playoff game, and you guys know thats all that matters. At least we know that Scola is a winner and your going to get 100% every night, im not sure about that with SAR he has never even been on a playoff contending team.


Exactly!... and Scola comes much cheaper than SAR.
:spin

[ducks]

how can you say scola and sar are the same
it is proven what sar can do
nothing is certain with scola
are you saying scola is >sar?

[Kona]

this whole abdur-rahim has never played in an NBA playoff game is bullshite to me. he's been on really shitty teams, really shitty. i don't think that they were playoff contenders until he got there and he ruined them.


it is an intriguing scenario, he is a talented player and the spurs interior offense would be killer, combine that with slashers like parker and manu, with outside shooters like horry, barry, manu et al., this is potentially one hell of an offensive team. we already have good team D.


it's not done yet, so who knows, but if it does through, i will find a way to get excited about the potential, bet on it.

[td4mvp3]

Well for all we know, Timmy might have told the Spurs brass that he's willing to start at C if they can get a 20ppg scorer next to him. :lol
i was saying something along these lines. it would make good sense, what other center in the west could tim not handle? yao, maybe? dampier, but i think that would be a push or go in duncan's favor. from the east, duncan matches up favorably against ben wallace, jermain oneal and at times shaq. and from what i've heard of SAR, he'd be great against the other power forwards out there, so you'd be losing little at power forward and gaining a lot in the center position. i'm thinking scola isn't coming this year, or at the least he isn't the priority. why would he be? you could spend money now and bring in a guy who will take time getting used to the city, languange and game or you could wait a year and have the same guy for free.

and the more i think about it maybe that's a good thing. he's going to take time to settle in as opposed to a guy you could bring in already ready to go. i think the signing of a shooting coach points to a more "here and now" mentality: pop may have been opposed to the idea thinking that his team was still getting formed and needed to learn stuff on its own, but now the team is pretty set and the time for learning is over. i don't think it's any sort of trick or anything that they are going after donyell marshall or SAR (maybe thinking of putting duncan at center). it'd be a good way to go.

[Mr. Body]

I reviewed his box scores from the last couple years in Portland. Rahim does well - sometimes very well - when he starts. Not so well when he doesn't. He also tends to need big minutes to produce, which normally isn't that big a deal. It is a big deal, however, when you try to jam a starter into a bench role. Some players can do it, some players, like SAR, struggle.

This doesn't look like a safe bet by any means.

[midgetonadonkey]

could you imagine a starting frontline averaging 37+pts a night?
plus the backcourt of Manu and Tony?
2006 TITLE LOCKED

I don't think we can start SAR over Nazr. Duncan is a natural 4 and moving him might hinder his game a bit. I don't think the Spurs need to go to those lengths to bring in SAR. If he wants to be a Spur he should be willing to accept a role off the bench. He will make a good scoring backup to Duncan but there is no need to mess with the starting 5 that much.

[Kori Ellis]

No money talk as Nets give Abdur-Rahim tour
Friday, July 08, 2005
BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO
Star-Ledger Staff

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1120798273219770.xml&coll=1

The itinerary yesterday was typical for recruitment visits: He toured the practice facility in East Rutherford, met the owner, went to lunch with Lawrence Frank up in Ridgewood, and then checked out some neighboring Bergen County towns and schools with his wife.

So now the Nets are in a holding pattern, waiting for Shareef Abdur-Rahim to take at least two other trips just like this one and hoping that he found the environment appealing enough to make New Jersey his home for the next six years -- or as long as it takes the franchise to pack up and move to Brooklyn.

"The one thing everyone is missing is there's no negotiation going on here," one Nets official said yesterday, alluding to the finite amount the team can pay the free- agent forward. "Either he likes it and comes, or doesn't like it. That's all there is right now."

A limousine carrying Abdur- Rahim and his wife, Dee, pulled into the team's practice site shortly before noon, and they toured the facility for roughly two hours. He didn't stop to address the media assembled outside, nor did owner Bruce Ratner, who left earlier.

Nets president Rod Thorn, however, looked confident that the team had put its best foot forward.

"We had a nice meeting, and now he will have to look at what all his options are and decide what he wants to do," said Thorn, who took the visiting couple to dinner Wednesday night at a steakhouse in Manhattan. "Obviously, a player's timeline is a player's timeline, but from our perspective we'd like to see what can be done as quickly as possible. In case it doesn't work out, (the team must ensure that) other options aren't gone."

Abdur-Rahim has other options as well. He will visit Sacramento and Miami in the next week, but several executives around the league believe that no team -- other than rebuilding clubs with salary-cap room -- will offer the 28-year-old more than the midlevel exception, the extra fund that teams over the cap can earmark toward free agents.

The Nets can do only slightly better by using their trade exception, which is the money left over from the Kerry Kittles deal (a player-for-draft-pick swap) that can be used to purchase an existing contract from another team. In this scenario, the Nets can send the exception to Portland (valued at $4.9 million), have the Blazers sign him for that first-year salary, stretch it over six years with 10.5 percent annual raises, and come out with a new $37 million contract. There is no wiggle room, and both Abdur-Rahim and his agent, Aaron Goodwin, know it.

"We can do what we can do -- there really isn't anything to talk about," Thorn said. "We'll see what transpires. He is a very nice young man."

The Nets' pursuit of Keyon Dooling remains on hold until Abdur-Rahim makes up his mind, because they don't know how much money to offer the Miami free agent until they determine which exception to use on Abdur- Rahim. The team believes that it is very likely that Portland will accept the trade exception to use in a sign-and-trade scenario, leaving the midlevel for Dooling.


The Nets learned

that they are going to lose two of their own free-agent forwards: Clifford Robinson's negotiation with Miami is progressing quickly, and Brian Scalabrine -- who has spent his entire four-year career in New Jersey -- is expected to sign a five-year, $15 million deal with Boston.

"We figured that might happen, but we didn't know what (contract) number he'd come in at," a team official said. "The number came in great for him, and we're happy for him."

The 6-9 forward is coming off his best year, averaging 6.3 points and 4.5 rebounds in 21 minutes per game, demonstrating that he had graduated from emergency player to rotation player in the 14 games he started at the end of last season.

[Marcus Bryant]

Abdur-Rahim has other options as well. He will visit Sacramento and Miami in the next week, but several executives around the league believe that no team -- other than rebuilding clubs with salary-cap room -- will offer the 28-year-old more than the midlevel exception, the extra fund that teams over the cap can earmark toward free agents.

Let's see, a 28 year old power forward who's a career 20 ppg scorer getting only the MLE from a contender? Yeah, right.

The one thing the article fails to mention is that there is a contender out there with the ability to pay SAR more in a S&T by sending Portland a player in whom they've had an interest.

[Mr. Body]

There's a contender that can offer him a major role and plenty of playing time, for just a million or so less a year.

Hmm... which to chose! Which to chose!

[Marcus Bryant]

There's a contender that can offer him a major role and plenty of playing time, for just a million or so less a year.

Hmm... which to chose! Which to chose!

Actually, it could be a little bit more than a mil extra a year. Bonus points if you can figure out the max and min.

[Mr. Body]

You're truly insane if you think somebody's dropping the max on him. At this point you should just call him up for a date.

[Marcus Bryant]

You're truly insane if you think somebody's dropping the max on him. At this point you should just call him up for a date.

...and you are just plain stupid because I wasn't referring to the absolute max he could be paid a season per the CBA, but rather how much he could get from that contender in a S&T.

Try again.

[picnroll]

Would you trade Rasho and the rights to Scola for SAR and Travis Outlaw? Doubt Poretland would, Outlaw is coming on. It's hard to say how highly other GMs value Scola.

[Useruser666]

I think after whatever happens, it will define SAR as a player.

If he goes to NJ, he just plain stupid. They will NEVER win a title!

If he goes to a club for more than the MLE, then he is greedy and also stupid. He would obviously not care about winning if he did that.

If he would go to a winning club for the MLE or a sign and trade, I would be able to respect that.

[Mr. Body]

...and you are just plain stupid because I wasn't referring to the absolute max he could be paid a season per the CBA, but rather how much he could get from that contender in a S&T.

Well, you're just teh STOOPIDEST because that's what I said in the previous post: S&T equals only a million or two over the MLE. Worth enough to bury onesself on the bench? Time will tell. Does Portland really want or need Rasho? Time will tell. Let's not rehash these stupid arguments.


If he goes to NJ, he just plain stupid. They will NEVER win a title!

Spurs fans have to be some of the most ignorant in the world. Or else it's just the Homer thing. I think at this point SAR would be ecstatic to get into the playoffs. Being a major factor in Jersey's run has to be a big, big plus.

[Useruser666]

Well, you're just teh STOOPIDEST because that's what I said in the previous post: S&T equals only a million or two over the MLE. Worth enough to bury onesself on the bench? Time will tell. Does Portland really want or need Rasho? Time will tell. Let's not rehash these stupid arguments.



Spurs fans have to be some of the most ignorant in the world. Or else it's just the Homer thing. I think at this point SAR would be ecstatic to get into the playoffs. Being a major factor in Jersey's run has to be a big, big plus.

Do you think NJ has a snowballs chance in hell to win a title? SARcould go anywhere, and there are several better teams than NJ that could pick him up. Why would he go to a place that has NO chance of winning? Do you actually believe his goal is just to make the first round and be eliminated? You must think he is pretty dumb them.

[Mr. Body]

Do you think NJ has a snowballs chance in hell to win a title?

Uh... No. Read my post again.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, you're just teh STOOPIDEST

That was rather convincing.

My my, someone's testy.




because that's what I said in the previous post: S&T equals only a million or two over the MLE.


Actually, it doesn't. That's what I said in my post. How much is Nesterovic's annual salary in 2005-06? How much under the new CBA could the Spurs take back in a trade?

Also, you said "a mil" over in your prior post.

Keep guessing.




Worth enough to bury onesself on the bench? Time will tell. Does Portland really want or need Rasho? Time will tell. Let's not rehash these stupid arguments.


If you don't want to see stupid arguments and comments in this forum, I'd suggest you begin by ceasing to post some of them.




Spurs fans have to be some of the most ignorant in the world. Or else it's just the Homer thing. I think at this point SAR would be ecstatic to get into the playoffs. Being a major factor in Jersey's run has to be a big, big plus.

"Ignorant"? You apparently do not understand the CBA. I suggest you learn a little bit about that before you start referring to others as that.

Try again, "STOOPID".

[MannyIsGod]

Damn! How did I miss this shit!

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Well, after finally slogging through all of this the one question that lingers on my mind is, "Why are the Blazers looking to get Rasho?" Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and would like to see him stick around. Why put that kind of money up for a player who might very well just wind up playing behind Pryzbilla and Ratcliff? Is there something I'm not seeing here?

The main thing that I'm wondering about is SARS defense. The ruling logic I've seen in favor of this move has been that the Spurs D is good enough already and this guy can score 20 per game. Defense is the Spurs identity. What I want to know is can this guy clog the paint like the Spurs ask all of their big men to do?

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, after finally slogging through all of this the one question that lingers on my mind is, "Why are the Blazers looking to get Rasho?" Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and would like to see him stick around. Why put that kind of money up for a player who might very well just wind up playing behind Pryzbilla and Ratcliff? Is there something I'm not seeing here?

Sure. They waive Ratliff to avoid the luxury tax on him and then will be in need of a center. Nesterovic is reasonably priced for a center given his skills and consistency.

Also, they get something back for SAR instead of seeing him walk away for nothing.

[usckk]

I stilll think he's going to New Jersey.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Aha. I wasn't aware that Portland was looking to albatross Theo Huxtable. Going for Rasho makes a bit more sense now. I still have my doubts about this trade though.

[Marcus Bryant]

In regards to the maximum the Spurs could offer Abdur-Rahim via a sign and trade with Portland for Nesterovic, they could offer a 6 year contract starting at $8.5 million with 10% annual raises (note, I am not saying they will, only that they can).

Compared to the max that any capped out team other than the Blazers can offer by signing SAR outright (MLE of $5 mil starting for 5 years with 8% annual raises), the Spurs could offer SAR as much as $32.5 million more in guaranteed salary if they completed a sign and trade of Nesterovic with Portland.

Again, not that they would, but that they could. So it's a bit more than "a mil" over the MLE. More like up to $4 mil per season on average over 5 years and that's not counting the extra guaranteed year that the Spurs could give SAR in a sign and trade.

[constantstate]

where ever he ends up, i'm thinking they're going to try sign and trades to get him more money. portland probably does want to get out from under some contracts... like DAs. dropping NVE should help too. but now with nate there, this could be chance one to get someone he likes there, or get someone with trade value for later on.

god knows why he'd want to go to nj... but at the end of the day i dont think he's going to want to be stuck there 4 or more years at mle money. not when he knows shaq is waiting, and even detroit and indiana would be nearly impossible to get by probably for the next 2 to 3 years.

[Marcus Bryant]

where ever he ends up, i'm thinking they're going to try sign and trades to get him more money. portland probably does want to get out from under some contracts... like DAs. dropping NVE should help too. but now with nate there, this could be chance one to get someone he likes there, or get someone with trade value for later on.

god knows why he'd want to go to nj... but at the end of the day i dont think he's going to want to be stuck there 4 or more years at mle money. not when he knows shaq is waiting, and even detroit and indiana would be nearly impossible to get by probably for the next 2 to 3 years.


If Portland is looking to dump contracts then they would have to take back some salary from NJ, even after assuming that the Nets use the trade exception. As far as expiring contracts go, the Nets don't really have any of significant size to make it worth Portland's while.

[constantstate]

If Portland is looking to dump contracts then they would have to take back some salary from NJ, even after assuming that the Nets use the trade exception. As far as expiring contracts go, the Nets don't really have any of significant size to make it worth Portland's while.
thats why im thinking if its nj maybe there's a 3rd team involved... because on top of that, they dont have anyone that either fits or would be worth it to them. the only other option for him would be to take the mle money... and if he's going to do that... he could do it anywhere. (or at least alot of other places)

[Marcus Bryant]

NJ would have to send Portland back some players in addition to the trade exception in order to give SAR something more than MLE money.

Here's a way to look at it, the most that can be guaranteed to SAR in a sign and trade using NJ's trade exception alone is $38.25 mil over 6 years.

Using the example of a sign and trade involving Nesterovic alone described above, the Spurs could offer SAR as much as $63.75 mil guaranteed over 6 years.

If you already have $30 mil committed to Nesterovic for the next 4 years, how much extra would it be worth to the Spurs to have SAR instead?

[Solid D]

Not bad money for a 6th man.

[Marcus Bryant]

Not bad money for a 6th man.

Perhaps. But you already have $30 mil committed to Rasho. Might it not be tempting for the front office to have SAR instead for a little bit more?

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Not bad money for a 6th man.

Or 7th man. Is Horry going to get bumped to the end of the bench if SAR comes? Or would Horry move over and play 5 or even 3? Whatever the situation, Horry has got to get significant PT with Tim. That rotation kicked ass in the playoffs, and it doesn't make sense that Horry just got inked for 3 years to ride pine.

As far as the sign and trade options, it just makes more sense to me to go after a small forward. If Pop and RC go after SAR and try to bring Scola in as well, I think they're taking Bruce Bowen's durability for granted.

SAR is a great player, but as rumored, this trade doesn't make much sense from the Spurs' standpoint.

[Solid D]

Perhaps. But you already have $30 mil committed to Rasho. Might it not be tempting for the front office to have SAR instead for a little bit more?


Maybe, but I just don't think SAR is worth that kind of term, nor $ to the Spurs. He would probably help the Spurs to improve, no doubt, but I just haven't seen the intensity from him while playing for all his other teams.

If SAR comes, you trade Scola's rights, plain and simple.

[constantstate]

If SAR comes, you trade Scola's rights, plain and simple.
i totally agree. all you were going to ask from scola is to spell horry with good mins, some inside scoring when tim is out, and a rebound or two. (building him for the future) but sar, is offense ready. if you have him you dont need scola anyway. sar isnt going to average 20pts a game here, or even start (unless tim moves to center full time) but he's duncan's age or a little younger and he'd finish his career with a few championships.

[Marcus Bryant]

Estimated 4/5 rotation minutes breakdown for next season:

35 Duncan
25 Mohammed
15 Horry
21 ?

Also, Horry's going to be around for perhaps 2 more seasons. SAR would give the Spurs someone to take up a lot of minutes in the rotation during the regular season.

[constantstate]

Scola gettin a rebound or 2? are you that stupid?

its a figure of speech... take it easy... ok?

manu averaged 16pts his rookie year right?

all i said was if you get sar... you dont need scola. i would rather them use rasho or nazr to go after "the small forward of the future" -- but it doesnt seem to be out there.

having a guy like sar on the team would be more valuable than scola right now. tim's ankles go out on him for a week or 2... sar can score 20 in the nba... you dont know what scola can do. or do you?

so if its on the table... take it.

[Useruser666]

For a rotation with SAR I could see the following.

Starting

Nazr
Duncan
Bowen
Gino
Parker

First quarter:

Then Sar and Barry come in to spell Nazr and Gino.

Duncan rotates to center.

Horry and Nazr come in for Duncan and SAR.


For ending the game it will all be about matchups. Sometimes SAR and Duncan, sometimes Duncan and Horry. They can go big, small, or something inbetween. Think Duncan, SAR, Horry, Gino, and Parker/Barry. Now THAT is spreading the floor.

[Marcus Bryant]

He'd give the Spurs one more option and I could see him replacing Horry as the primary big off the bench sometime next season or the season thereafter. He'd get plenty of PT.

From the Spurs' perspective, you get a great scoring 4 to play alongside TD and the incremental cost over Rasho wouldn't be that great. At 28, he has at least 4 more seasons of playing at a high level, in my opinion.

[whottt]

Scola gettin a rebound or 2? are you that stupid?


this guy is going to be a beast in the NBA

someone averages 20+pts 10+rbs in the olympics and eurol league and you dont think he can average 15pts 7rbs in trh NBA?


SCOLA will help bring 3-4 more titles


Um...if Scola had averaged 20 and 10 anywhere I'd be highly impressed...he hasn't, which means you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Retire and get your back fixed.

[ace3g]

he may not be a 20 and 10 guy but he is definitely a 15-20 pt/ 6.2 rebound type guy, and those numbers are great

[ace3g]

Link to 2004-2005 Euroleague Stats (http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AJG)

[T Park]

6.2 rebound type guy

sorry a 6'8 6'9

POWER forward

should average more than 6 rebounds a game.

It should be 8 or 9.

There is a reason RC Buford critiqued him so.

[Solid D]

Scola could rebound better but they play 40 min. games, not 48 min. games. Points and rebounds averages are lower than NBA averages for top players.

[ace3g]

yeah that is another reason , good point solid D

[ducks]

he may not be a 20 and 10 guy but he is definitely a 15-20 pt/ 6.2 rebound type guy, and those numbers are great


I will be happy if he puts up 10 and 8 on this team

I do not see how he could average 20 with the spurs
maybe with gs

[Karl Mundt]

Averaging 16.8 points and 6.4 rebounds is very good in the Euroleague for a team that reached the Final Four. He only played about 28 minutes on average and rebounding and assist statistics are counted somewhat differently in the NBA and the Euroleague i think. How excactly i don't know, but you won't see many players averaging 8-9 rebounds or 5-6 assists in the Euroleague. I dare anyone to find a player who did that last season in the Euroleague.