Elite QB/Niners/Stuff

[Avante]

Anyone still believe ya must have an elite QB to win it all? Didn't Tim Tebow do more for the Broncos than Peyton Manning? How many rookie QB's were in the playoffs? Christian Ponder? A first time starter in Kaepernick coming within a bad non call from winning it all? Who thinks Joe Flacco was an ...elite...QB? Hopefully all of you who did think..."need that elite QB"....learned the realities of the situation......ya don't!!!

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How many draft picks do we have....a ton! Gore has a couple years left in him, hopefullly Hunter can stay healthy as well as Manningham. Not much was made out of the fact both of them were hurt last season. James and Moss (current Moss) a big step down.

Good to see Seattle coming on, that puts heat on us to win those season games, no room to slack off.

Now add Boldin to an already great team, how about NFC favorites?

Being a life long Niner fan has been pretty cool, we have been as successful as any NFC team. Have had a ton of Hall of Famers, the best QB and the best receiver ever. Would ya believe the shotgun formation was started with the Niners? The only team in history to have three future Hall of Fame running backs all there at the same time. Ronnie Lott!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reggie Bush really does needs to play in the slot more. The guy is a great receiver something that gets forgotten. Get the guy out in space, he is one of the fastest backs in the league (Charles the fastest). Maybe the Lions will figure it out.

There is no need not to see the Broncos as the AFC favorites right now. The addition of Welker is huge. Moreno is all the back they need.

Percy Harvin will be the second fastest Seahawk ever. Who can tell me the first? He will make a huge difference in that offense, like Bush he can make anyone miss and can outrun DB's. They do need him coming out of the backfield so a few running plays would work.

[Blake]

Anyone still believe ya must have an elite QB to win it all?

Your chances of winning it all increase dramatically with an elite quarterback.

lol crawling back

[symple19]

Gonna be a big hole where Sopoaga left. Certainly not crying about Goldson leaving but wish him well.

Yeah, the Niners are in good shape but need to have a strong draft and find a veteran for the secondary.

Giddy about the prospect of 3 receiver sets (Manningham/Trabtree/Boldin) with Davis at TE. :lol opposing matchups, somebody is gonna be (wide the fuck) open.

Need to continue to teach the Oreo to slide/get the hell outta bounds and I like our chances

[Trill Clinton]

welcome back, avante. great thread.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao crawling out from under a hole
:lmao Flacco having a passer rating over 100 in all 4 playoff games

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

:lmaoAvante returns and immediately tries to justify not needing an elite QB to win it all for the 100th time. When all of the smoke cleared, it was the elite QB play of Flacco with one of the best postseasons in NFL history that carried his team to the Lombardi. Monkeyball loses again :lmao

[Chinook]

Anyone still believe ya must have an elite QB to win it all? Didn't Tim Tebow do more for the Broncos than Peyton Manning? How many rookie QB's were in the playoffs? Christian Ponder? A first time starter in Kaepernick coming within a bad non call from winning it all? Who thinks Joe Flacco was an ...elite...QB? Hopefully all of you who did think..."need that elite QB"....learned the realities of the situation......ya don't!!!

Nope. Never did. All that crap about elite quarterbacks being the key to winning a championship is just something Vegas uses to set odds. You need a team full of players (and usually a quarterback) playing well at the right time to win. Flacco played really well in the post-season, but that wasn't worth $20 Million. Winning the Super Bowl shouldn't change that. Had the 49ers been able to get those final five yards (stop with the penalty-whining), Kaep would have been no better than he is now. There's a reason why "elite" quarterbacks fail to win multiple rings (after getting the distinction) while new quarterbacks keep getting crowned every season.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Avante
:lol Went into hiding after the Super Bowl choke
:lol Didn't come back until his Niners got Boldin
:lol Frontrunner
:lol Acid-dropping, welching, senile old faggot

[Blake]

The Niners could have made it to the Super Bowl with Alex!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Had the 49ers been able to get those final five yards (stop with the penalty-whining), Kaep would have been no better than he is now.

Actually he would be since it would mean he was good enough to get those final five yards when he isn't now :lol

[Chinook]

Actually he would be since it would mean he was good enough to get those final five yards when he isn't now :lol

I guess. But had they called a pistol play and scored off it, Kaep would never have had a chance to show he couldn't complete a five-yard pass in three tries.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Had my aunt been born with a cock, she'd be my uncle.

[Chinook]

Sure (unless you mean an aunt by marriage here). But if you're using teleology to evaluate quarterbacks, the "elite" distinction loses all its power. If the only quarterbacks who are good enough to win are the ones who end up winning, there's no point in discussing them.

[Avante]

Gonna be a big hole where Sopoaga left. Certainly not crying about Goldson leaving but wish him well.

Yeah, the Niners are in good shape but need to have a strong draft and find a veteran for the secondary.

Giddy about the prospect of 3 receiver sets (Manningham/Trabtree/Boldin) with Davis at TE. :lol opposing matchups, somebody is gonna be (wide the fuck) open.

Need to continue to teach the Oreo to slide/get the hell outta bounds and I like our chances

We could be looking at the best receiving group in the league. Yep, somebody will be open.

Agree about the sliding/out of bounds.

[Avante]

Nope. Never did. All that crap about elite quarterbacks being the key to winning a championship is just something Vegas uses to set odds. You need a team full of players (and usually a quarterback) playing well at the right time to win. Flacco played really well in the post-season, but that wasn't worth $20 Million. Winning the Super Bowl shouldn't change that. Had the 49ers been able to get those final five yards (stop with the penalty-whining), Kaep would have been no better than he is now. There's a reason why "elite" quarterbacks fail to win multiple rings (after getting the distinction) while new quarterbacks keep getting crowned every season.

Yes yes and yes.

[Avante]

welcome back, avante. great thread.

Thanks bro.

[Avante]

:lmaoAvante returns and immediately tries to justify not needing an elite QB to win it all for the 100th time. When all of the smoke cleared, it was the elite QB play of Flacco with one of the best postseasons in NFL history that carried his team to the Lombardi. Monkeyball loses again :lmao

Do you watch football?

[Avante]

:lol Avante
:lol Went into hiding after the Super Bowl choke
:lol Didn't come back until his Niners got Boldin
:lol Frontrunner
:lol Acid-dropping, welching, senile old faggot

Do you work at being an idiot?

[Avante]

Actually he would be since it would mean he was good enough to get those final five yards when he isn't now :lol

That was stupid.

[TIMMYtoZO]

Gonna be a big hole where Sopoaga left. Certainly not crying about Goldson leaving but wish him well.

Yeah, the Niners are in good shape but need to have a strong draft and find a veteran for othe secondary.

Giddy about the prospect of 3 receiver sets (Manningham/Trabtree/Boldin) with Davis at TE. :lol opposing matchups, somebody is gonna be (wide the fuck) open.

Need to continue to teach the Oreo to slide/get the hell outta bounds and I like our chances

You also must be giddy about having a QB who can deliver when a Super Bowl is on the line.

[TIMMYtoZO]

Do you watch football?

:lol Kaepernick failed when the team needed him the most. Eli Manning would have finished that drive with a TD.

[Chinook]

:lol Kaepernick failed when the team needed him the most. Eli Manning would have finished that drive with a TD.

But so would Josh Freeman. That man was (and still is) insanely clutch.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol What a terrible argument from Chinook, tbh..

Flacco was by far the best QB in the playoffs, it wasn't even close..

If the Titans could have gotten 1 more yard, if Peyton doesn't throw that INT, if Tyree doesn't make that catch, etc..abundance of examples that could have changed NFL history, but they didn't..

Who are these "new QBs" that have been crowned?..

2013 Joe Flacco- borderline elite, I'll call him a "new QB" for your argument
2012 Eli Manning- borderline elite after 2nd ring
2011 Aaron Rodgers- elite
2010 Drew Brees- elite
2009 Big Rape- borderline elite after multiple rings
2008 Eli Manning- "new QB", subsequently proved to be a borderline elite QB
2007 Peyton Manning- elite QB
2006 Big Rape- "new QB", subsequently proved to be borderline elite QB
2005 Tom Brady- elite
2004 Tom Brady- elite

So, 2003 was the last time a QB that wasn't at least borderline elite won a title..

There have been 2 "new guy" QBs that were crowned, other than Flacco, and those QBs ultimately won another ring to cement their statuses, tbh..

What's the argument here?..

[Avante]

:lol Kaepernick failed when the team needed him the most. Eli Manning would have finished that drive with a TD.

What if the holding penalty is called like it should have been?

[Avante]

:lol What a terrible argument from Chinook, tbh..

Flacco was by far the best QB in the playoffs, it wasn't even close..

If the Titans could have gotten 1 more yard, if Peyton doesn't throw that INT, if Tyree doesn't make that catch, etc..abundance of examples that could have changed NFL history, but they didn't..

Who are these "new QBs" that have been crowned?..

2013 Joe Flacco- borderline elite, I'll call him a "new QB" for your argument
2012 Eli Manning- borderline elite after 2nd ring
2011 Aaron Rodgers- elite
2010 Drew Brees- elite
2009 Big Rape- borderline elite after multiple rings
2008 Eli Manning- "new QB", subsequently proved to be a borderline elite QB
2007 Peyton Manning- elite QB
2006 Big Rape- "new QB", subsequently proved to be borderline elite QB
2005 Tom Brady- elite
2004 Tom Brady- elite

So, 2003 was the last time a QB that wasn't at least borderline elite won a title..

There have been 2 "new guy" QBs that were crowned, other than Flacco, and those QBs ultimately won another ring to cement their statuses, tbh..

What's the argument here?..

You can win it all without that.."elite"...QB. You can be a contender with rookies.

[Clipper Nation]

You can win it all without that.."elite"...QB. You can be a contender with rookies.

Are you retarded? Do you even watch the NFL? Thanks to all the offense-biased and especially QB-biased rule changes in the past decade, the only way teams can win a ring is if they have an elite quarterback or if their quarterback plays at an elite level in the postseason.... soft, pussy game managers like Alex Smith or Matt Schaub do not win championships in today's NFL, tbh....

[Chinook]

:lol What a terrible argument from Chinook, tbh..

Flacco was by far the best QB in the playoffs, it wasn't even close..

If the Titans could have gotten 1 more yard, if Peyton doesn't throw that INT, if Tyree doesn't make that catch, etc..abundance of examples that could have changed NFL history, but they didn't..

Who are these "new QBs" that have been crowned?..

2013 Joe Flacco- borderline elite, I'll call him a "new QB" for your argument
2012 Eli Manning- borderline elite after 2nd ring
2011 Aaron Rodgers- elite
2010 Drew Brees- elite
2009 Big Rape- borderline elite after multiple rings
2008 Eli Manning- "new QB", subsequently proved to be a borderline elite QB
2007 Peyton Manning- elite QB
2006 Big Rape- "new QB", subsequently proved to be borderline elite QB
2005 Tom Brady- elite
2004 Tom Brady- elite

So, 2003 was the last time a QB that wasn't at least borderline elite won a title..

There have been 2 "new guy" QBs that were crowned, other than Flacco, and those QBs ultimately won another ring to cement their statuses, tbh..

What's the argument here?..

There's nothing terrible about the argument. Your entire critique is that the past happened, and talking about a world were certain events didn't happen is pointless. As a strong determinist, I agree with you when talking about metaphysics. But your argument in this case is teleological. If I were to ask you who you think will be the next elite quarterback, the only way you should be able to answer is, "Whoever wins the next Super Bowl." Otherwise, you'd be using a completely different criterion than you're using now.

To be clear: By new quarterbacks being crowned, I mean being put into the "elite" club. You just cement my argument by listing all the Super Bowl winners as elite or boarderline-elite. People were not calling Rodgers or Brees elite before they won. (Brees was put up there to an extent, but there was not consensus until he won.) These were people who were only given their status because they won ... which is exactly what I said.

There is one exception: Manning was definitely considered elite before he won. Brady was (or should have been) considered elite by his third title, but he was already winning and was on a cheap contract during those years. Manning's the only one who had to step up as the guy and justify the salary he was getting. That's why I called him the only true elite quarterback a few weeks ago.

To me, the elite discussion only has merit if it has predictive power. Anyone can look at the past and say, "He's elite; look at what he did." But it's much harder to look ahead and say, "He's elite. This is what he's going to do," with any accuracy. That's why it's of note that no quarterback on your list besides Brady and Manning has won a title AFTER getting that elite distinction.

tl;dr: You say those quarterbacks won because they are elite; I say you only call those quarterback elite because they won.

[TIMMYtoZO]

What if the holding penalty is called like it should have been?

:lol What if the 49ers weren't getting fist fucked 28-6? What if the power didn't go off? What if you had a QB who was actually clutch?

[Chinook]

Addendum: One thing that flowed through was you saying that Flacco was by far the best quarterback in the playoffs. I agree with that statement. In fact, that was pretty much what I said in my first post in this thread.


You need a team full of players (and usually a quarterback) playing well at the right time to win. Flacco played really well in the post-season, but that wasn't worth $20 Million. Winning the Super Bowl shouldn't change that. Had the 49ers been able to get those final five yards (stop with the penalty-whining), Kaep would have been no better than he is now.

Flacco had a great post-season, but that would have been true even if Ed had been unable to stop Gore on his long run which set up the goal-line stand. Flacco's skill level and stats wouldn't have changed (provided he didn't lead the Ravens to a last-second score), and neither would Kaep's, but people would have said Flacco wasn't elite and that Kaep was. It's just hypocritical as hell for all you to have been on that Flacco sucks wagon at the end of the regular season and then pretend like he got better over the next four weeks. He's the same quarterback he was then. He'll have those same lulls. He was either elite when he was getting his ass handed to him by the Broncos in the regular season, or he's not elite even after this run. To say anything else is just foolish.

[Avante]

Are you retarded? Do you even watch the NFL? Thanks to all the offense-biased and especially QB-biased rule changes in the past decade, the only way teams can win a ring is if they have an elite quarterback or if their quarterback plays at an elite level in the postseason.... soft, pussy game managers like Alex Smith or Matt Schaub do not win championships in today's NFL, tbh....

Well lets see...hmmm?....how many NFL games have I seen since 1963. Keep in mind I watch everything. Try.....TONS!!!!! Hell dude I can talk about players you've never even heard of. How's about Stephen F. Austins 9.2 sprinter Andrew Hopkins NFL career? Ever heard of Gramblings Stone Johnson, of course not.

Pay attention idiot....

We had how many rookie QB's in the playoffs? Kaepernick in his first season coming within a bad non call from winning it all. Where were Brees, Rodgers, Brady and the Mannings? Are you as dumb as you appear? Who saw Joe Flacco as an elite QB? Who saw Aex Smith as an elite QB, didn't he take the Niners to one game away? Does it hurt to be a fucking moron?

Duke check out the season Eli Manning had when he won his first Superbowl. Then do the same for Big Ben....elite???

[Avante]

:lol What if the 49ers weren't getting fist fucked 28-6? What if the power didn't go off? What if you had a QB who was actually clutch?

You can always tell those who don't know shit. Dude, how many times do we see a game of two halfs? Didn't the power go off on both teams? You know as well as I do, if that penalty was called the Niners win the game so why act stupid?

[Avante]

The bottom line in all this is that none of ...THE GREAT...QB's were there and if not for fumbles and dropped passes it's Flacco vs Smith in 2011. Didn't rookie Russell Wilson have a better playoffs than ..THE GREAT...Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning, how does that happen? Where was ...THE GREAT...Eli Manning?

If it really was about....THE GREAT QB...then where were they?

How many times do we see each conferences best QB's in a Superbowl?

[Blake]

Your chances of winning it all increase dramatically with an elite quarterback.

lol crawling back