2013 Free Agent: Gary Neal

[Bruno]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_gary_neal.jpg
Born: Oct 3, 1984
Height: 6-4 / 1.93
Weight: 210 lbs. / 95.3 kg.
Prior to NBA / Country: Towson / USA

Info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/gary_neal/career_stats.html)

RFA

[td4mvp2k]

Neal 4 good $ with Spurs.

[ace3g]

Depends on what the Spurs decide to do with their plethora of guards.

[td4mvp2k]

Depends on what the Spurs decide to do with their plethora of guards.

Ya I think they have to do somethin with DeColo cuz I dont see it.

[Bruno]

If Manu doesn't retire, which is the most likely scenario, I would let Neal go. Green/Ginobili/De Colo is fine at SG.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

is he REALLY 6'4?

[jesterbobman]

I don't think he'll be worth keeping at the 3-4million that he'll probably get in free agency, especially with our guard depth.

[Bruno]

A big edge of Neal for Spurs is that his cap hold is very low. Keeping bird rights on Neal would only eat $0.4M in cap space.

The biggest interest would be if Manu retires. Spurs would have something like $15M in cap space to throw at a bigman. After that big signing, they would re-sign Splitter and Neal with bird rights and a SF with the room exception. Green/Neal/De Colo is decent enough for me to hold the SG spot.

[timtonymanu]

When healthy he is pretty valuable. If we are bringing him back just to put him at backup PG instead of Joseph, ditch him. But he's useful in case of a Manu injury or Manu retiring. His injury has to have brought his value down so it's possible he may return.

[BackHome]

Not worth what he is going to want and we have to many little guys on this team.

[racm]

I still think some team will throw him a poison pill contract if the Spurs offer him a QA.

That is, if he's eligible for one.

[Darkwaters]

Gary Neal probably doesn't need to be brought back unless Manu retires.

I hope he gets a decent offer from a team looking for shooting. He really is a nice player, hes just had a bad year largely due to some unfortunate injuries. But hes hit enough game winners for me to overlook the rough patch.

[CGD]

Ah the enigma that is Gary Neal. Pop loves having that Eddie House type player who provides instant offense off the bench, and after may failed attempts (mighty mouse comes to mind) he finally found it in Neal. And for good reason, Neal has gotten the team out of some rough patches with he lethal shooting. I like Gary.

Then on the other hand, there are may open issues. Poor defense, inability to play PG, and the glut of SGs on the team. It is also unclear what he will fetch in the open market, but you have to think Gary is gonna look to maximize his earnings. Don't blame him.

Right now, I come down on the side of letting him walk. If the spurs are serious about developing Cojo, Nando, and even Hanga, Neal's minutes will be key. I'm also assuming Mills doesn't leave money on the table by opting out this summer.

[Pop]

The thing is a healthy Neal can be a scary offensive force but the roster is unbalanced with too many midgets and only two SF and one center and a half (the half being Baynes since he's not being put on the court).

Then again with Manu's frequent injuries, if there a position that should be tripled it's SG but De Colo can do that like Bruno said.

I think they have to be smarter about the way they construct the roster next year to have a better balance between the different positions so yeah I like him a lot but it doesn't really make sense to re-sign him unless we win a championship and want to bring back everyone or Manu retires.

[td4mvp2k]

This is goin to be bout what $ neal wants and if the spurs have it to do it but if they can get him for a good $ then you have to do it. Jackson 2.

[BackHome]

Pass on both of them both , get taller, younger, and better.

[TD 21]

If Manu doesn't retire, which is the most likely scenario, I would let Neal go. Green/Ginobili/De Colo is fine at SG.

Why? He's outstanding Ginobili insurance (when he's injured, if they don't have Neal, they'll lack firepower in the back court), as well as insurance in case Joseph isn't ready to be the primary backup PG. He's also restricted, will be coming off a sub par season (which decreases the likelihood of someone making an astronomical offer) and they have a good amount of financial flexibility. Letting him walk would be throwing away a solid asset for no real reason.

[superjames1992]

Do not want. We have too many guards.

[Bruno]

Why?

To open playing time for Joseph and De Colo.

[TD 21]

To open playing time for Joseph and De Colo.

They can have their cake and eat it too. If one of them drastically outplays him throughout camp/preseason, then they can have the job and he becomes quality insurance, similar to Blair. Of course he'll be unhappy, but so what? That's not a good enough reason to throw away a quality asset. Besides, one or both of them could easily falter and Ginobili will get at least two injuries. If by some miracle the opposite happens, then they'll have a solid trade asset.

[Bruno]

They can have their cake and eat it too. If one of them drastically outplays him throughout camp/preseason, then they can have the job and he becomes quality insurance, similar to Blair. Of course he'll be unhappy, but so what? That's not a good enough reason to throw away a quality asset. Besides, one or both of them could easily falter and Ginobili will get at least two injuries. If by some miracle the opposite happens, then they'll have a solid trade asset.

Stockpilling players just because they are good and because otherwise they would be lost assets is a poor way to manage a roster.

For example, if you have some worthwhile projects, you can't repeatedly put solid vets in front of them and just ask them to outplay them. Projects need playing time to get better, and, if there are solid vets in front of them, they won't get it and, so, won't get better.

Neal isn't even a good insurance because Spurs biggest uncertainty in their backcourt is the backup PG slot and Neal sucks at PG. Neal would be the third string SG on the team behind Ginobili and Green and, even if Spurs third string SG will play more than the typical this stringer because of Ginobili's injuries, you don't need a player as good as Neal to fill that spot. With what he has shown as a rookie, De Colo could cover that spot in his sophomore season.

[ace3g]

Neal is a situational player on this roster and Pop doesn't really know how to use situational players (Neal, Bonner, Blair); Pop either plays them too many minutes in stretches and/or doesn't use them when a situation calls for them.

Other than shooting he can't really do anything; isn't a good ball handler, passer, rebounder, defender, etc. With the age of the big 3 now, we need more versatile players with size.

[BackHome]

Neal and Blair are two players that just don't give us what we need which is being athletic and a good defender. They are both tweeners playing out of their positions and we can do better by replacing them by draft or free agency.

[TD 21]

Stockpilling players just because they are good and because otherwise they would be lost assets is a poor way to manage a roster.

For example, if you have some worthwhile projects, you can't repeatedly put solid vets in front of them and just ask them to outplay them. Projects need playing time to get better, and, if there are solid vets in front of them, they won't get it and, so, won't get better.

Neal isn't even a good insurance because Spurs biggest uncertainty in their backcourt is the backup PG slot and Neal sucks at PG. Neal would be the third string SG on the team behind Ginobili and Green and, even if Spurs third string SG will play more than the typical this stringer because of Ginobili's injuries, you don't need a player as good as Neal to fill that spot. With what he has shown as a rookie, De Colo could cover that spot in his sophomore season.

It depends on the situation. Blair, it makes sense to let go; Neal, it doesn't.

They may be worthwhile projects, but what's the upside? I see a competent 4th (Joseph) and 5th (De Colo) guard, who wouldn't be a good fit together offensively, since neither is a scorer. Their upside isn't high enough to justify handing one or the other a rotation spot on a team with serious aspirations and a team that can't afford to throw away rotation spots. The Heat/Thunder can do that with the likes of Cole and Jackson, because of the presence of James/Durant and the fact that their cores, in general, can play virtually unlimited minutes.

Of course you don't need a player as good as Neal to be a third string SG, but if you can have it, you don't necessarily throw it away just because the player is overqualified for the position (for example, the Heat didn't need Allen, because they already had Miller, but they added him anyway). If Joseph and/or De Colo drastically outplay him in camp/preseason and prove themselves as a rotation player, then it makes sense to shop him.

[Chinook]

It depends on the situation. Blair, it makes sense to let go; Neal, it doesn't.

They may be worthwhile projects, but what's the upside? I see a competent 4th (Joseph) and 5th (De Colo) guard, who wouldn't be a good fit together offensively, since neither is a scorer. Their upside isn't high enough to justify handing one or the other a rotation spot on a team with serious aspirations and a team that can't afford to throw away rotation spots. The Heat/Thunder can do that with the likes of Cole and Jackson, because of the presence of James/Durant and the fact that their cores, in general, can play virtually unlimited minutes.

Of course you don't need a player as good as Neal to be a third string SG, but if you can have it, you don't necessarily throw it away just because the player is overqualified for the position (for example, the Heat didn't need Allen, because they already had Miller, but they added him anyway). If Joseph and/or De Colo drastically outplay him in camp/preseason and prove themselves as a rotation player, then it makes sense to shop him.

That seems like a waste of money to me. Mills is on the books for cheap, and he fills the instant-offense, deep-bench scorer role pretty well. If Mills opts out and leaves, then it would make sense to give Neal a look. But I wouldn't give him more than the qualifying offer. Re-signing every half-decent player is what got Memphis into trouble. It's what is going to be Denver into trouble in a couple of years.

Worst comes to worst, they can just draft a scorer. That's about the most common skill set players coming out of college have.

[TD 21]

That seems like a waste of money to me. Mills is on the books for cheap, and he fills the instant-offense, deep-bench scorer role pretty well. If Mills opts out and leaves, then it would make sense to give Neal a look. But I wouldn't give him more than the qualifying offer.

If they wanted to, they could re-sign Ginobili, Splitter, Jackson and Neal, while easily avoiding the tax. Two things on Mills: 1) He can't consistently work next to Joseph (which is a problem considering Joseph is probably the odds on favorite to be the primary backup PG next season), because Joseph can't consistently defend SG's and 2) If he get's the sense that they're going to re-sign Neal, he probably opts out.


Re-signing every half-decent player is what got Memphis into trouble. It's what is going to be Denver into trouble in a couple of years.

It won't get the Spurs into trouble though, because they're not loaded with an abundance of extremely high or mid level long term salaries.


Worst comes to worst, they can just draft a scorer. That's about the most common skill set players coming out of college have.

Players who can create their own shot at this level don't grow on trees. The odds of finding it at 28-30 in a weak draft are not good. This is why Pop, on numerous occasions, has went out of his way to mention "how important Neal is to us".

[BackHome]

Pop speaks with forked tongue..

[Chinook]

If they wanted to, they could re-sign Ginobili, Splitter, Jackson and Neal, while easily avoiding the tax. Two things on Mills: 1) He can't consistently work next to Joseph (which is a problem considering Joseph is probably the odds on favorite to be the primary backup PG next season), because Joseph can't consistently defend SG's and 2) If he get's the sense that they're going to re-sign Neal, he probably opts out.

Joseph can defend shooting-guards a lot better than Neal can. Neal's only an inch taller. If Joseph locks down the backup point spot, then De Colo instantly becomes the fifth guard. I know you don't think he's offensive enough, but I disagree. I think they'd be a fine back court.

And if Mills opts out, the Spurs can take whichever of the two of them is cheaper.


It won't get the Spurs into trouble though, because they're not loaded with an abundance of extremely high or mid level long term salaries.

The Nuggets didn't either until the summer after the Carmelo trade. Memphis didn't either before the summer of 2010. Those contracts pile up quickly when you're a young team with players on cheap deals. Once Leonard, Splitter and potentially Green, Joseph and Bertans get contracts, that space will be gone. There's no reason to let any of them go just because Neal is making $3-4 Million to be the fifth guard.


Players who can create their own shot at this level don't grow on trees. The odds of finding it at 28-30 in a weak draft are not good. This is why Pop, on numerous occasions, has went out of his way to mention "how important Neal is to us".

Of course they do. The d-league is full of players who can get their own shot but lack other skills. There isn't a more-common skill out there. There're even more of them in Europe. Of course, many of them are locked into longer-term deals, and some don't want to come over. The best in the group who would be willing can probably make more than the minimum by just staying where they are, but we're talking about paying Neal near the MLE here. There's better value out there.

Neal's not important to the Spurs. They've had several guys over the years who have filled that same role as well or better than he has. He can still be useful, but his value decreases sharply when he's not making less than a million dollars. All things equal, he'd see the floor about as often as Blair would next season. I'd rather have a cheaper player with more upside ride the pine.

[TD 21]

Joseph can defend shooting-guards a lot better than Neal can. Neal's only an inch taller. If Joseph locks down the backup point spot, then De Colo instantly becomes the fifth guard. I know you don't think he's offensive enough, but I disagree. I think they'd be a fine back court.

And if Mills opts out, the Spurs can take whichever of the two of them is cheaper.

I don't know about that (according to their listings, Neal's got 25 pounds on him). I will, however, concede that there's numerous examples of similar sized guards guarding SG's, from Bradley to Ellis to Hill, when he was with the Spurs.


The Nuggets didn't either until the summer after the Carmelo trade. Memphis didn't either before the summer of 2010. Those contracts pile up quickly when you're a young team with players on cheap deals. Once Leonard, Splitter and potentially Green, Joseph and Bertans get contracts, that space will be gone. There's no reason to let any of them go just because Neal is making $3-4 Million to be the fifth guard.

They won't pile up though, because by the time Leonard is due to get paid (Green's contract is also up at this time), Duncan and Ginobili will most likely be retired. Joseph is unlikely to make anything significant on his next contract and the mere possibility of Bertans getting paid is so far down the line that it's irrelevant at this point.


Of course they do. The d-league is full of players who can get their own shot but lack other skills. There isn't a more-common skill out there. There're even more of them in Europe. Of course, many of them are locked into longer-term deals, and some don't want to come over. The best in the group who would be willing can probably make more than the minimum by just staying where they are, but we're talking about paying Neal near the MLE here. There's better value out there.

Neal's not important to the Spurs. They've had several guys over the years who have filled that same role as well or better than he has. He can still be useful, but his value decreases sharply when he's not making less than a million dollars. All things equal, he'd see the floor about as often as Blair would next season. I'd rather have a cheaper player with more upside ride the pine.

They can get their own shot at the D-League level, but I said this level and at this level, that skill is at a premium. Why else would inefficient types like Crawford, Ellis, Smith, etc. be valued as much as they are?

He's more important than people realize. The number one seed is important to this team and a healthy Neal can help get them through certain games where the schedule is hectic and key players aren't playing.

All this being said, I do think you guys will get your wish and that they'll let him go.

[Mel_13]

There's almost no cost associated with tendering the QO and letting the market set his price.

[TD 21]

Tonight's game (and this entire stretch, really) is a perfect example of why it would be foolish to hand the reigns to Joseph/De Colo next season. Trying to win another championship should far exceed trying to develop marginal prospects.

I'm not saying Neal is the answer, but they need to find someone who is. The best candidate I see in free agency, is Harris. Robinson wouldn't be bad, either.

[Chinook]

Eh, it's looking more and more like the Spurs may have to spend big money on another guard. If they bring in a player like Redick, then the whole dynamic of the guard rotation will change. If they still think Ginobili can get it done, then signing Neal as a backup may work if they find a way to get a good bench player at another position.

[Bruno]

If you re-sign Ginobili, adding a third quality SG in addition of Green and Ginobili is too much even when considering Ginobili's injuries.

The best way to get some insurance at SG without creating a logjam would be that this third string SG played also another role.
For example, Spurs could go after a very good SF that has also the ability to play SG. This player will primary be Kawhi backup but will also play SG when Manu is injured.
And if you believe in Joseph and/or De Colo, they might be enough to hold the backup PG slot and this third string SG slot.

To me, a player like Redick would only makes sense if Manu isn't re-signed.

[ace3g]

If you re-sign Ginobili, adding a third quality SG in addition of Green and Ginobili is too much even when considering Ginobili's injuries.

The best way to get some insurance at SG without creating a logjam would be that this third string SG played also another role.
For example, Spurs could go after a very good SF that has also the ability to play SG. This player will primary be Kawhi backup but will also play SG when Manu is injured.
And if you believe in Joseph and/or De Colo, they might be enough to hold the backup PG slot and this third string SG slot.

To me, a player like Redick would only makes sense if Manu isn't re-signed.

That is why I was thinking Corey Brewer would be a good target; back up to Kawhi and is quick enough to stay with the league's SGs. Plus he can be used in small ball line ups.

[Bruno]

That is why I was thinking Corey Brewer would be a good target; back up to Kawhi and is quick enough to stay with the league's SGs. Plus he can be used in small ball line ups.

I like Brewer but I really doubt a Parker/Brewer/Leonard lineup at PG/SG/SF would work spacing wise.

[Bruno]

And personally, I do believe in Joseph and De Colo. Next year, they should both be better.
Parker, Green, Ginobili, Joseph and De Colo is fine with me to play the guards minutes next season.

[TD 21]

And personally, I do believe in Joseph and De Colo. Next year, they should both be better.
Parker, Green, Ginobili, Joseph and De Colo is fine with me to play the guards minutes next season.

You're either much higher on their potential than me or you just think there's nothing that can be realistically done to get this team over the hump . . . which is probably true, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't strive to do so.

The way I see is, they have to construct this team so that Ginobili being healthy/playing at a high level is more luxury than necessity. It's not going to be easy, but if they could sign Harris and Leonard takes another step, then they've got a chance at that.

I agree about Redick. Defensively, he can't guard PG's, so the only way that would work is to start Ginobili, make him the 6th man and Green the backup SF. Suffice it to say, I don't see that happening, nor should it. They shouldn't waste their cap space on a SG, when PF and backup SF and PG are much bigger holes.

Even Brewer doesn't make much sense. Sure, he's an SF, but if he lacks the strength to defend Bryant, then he's got no chance with James or even Durant. He's also, as you said, a sub par three-point shooter. Wright is the guy, as far as backup SF is concerned.

[Bruno]

You're either much higher on their potential than me or you just think there's nothing that can be realistically done to get this team over the hump . . . which is probably true, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't strive to do so.

It's not like a lot will be asked to the Joseph/De Colo pair.
What will be needed from them is:
- 15 mpg at PG to backup Parker.
- When Ginobili is injured, 20 mpg at SG.

With what they have shown this year and the usual improvement between the rookie/sophomore season (I know Joseph isn't technically a rookie), I'm somewhat confident they will be able to play that role next season. I just rather see Spurs using their money and resources on other needs.

To me, Spurs offseason plan should be:
- Re-sign Splitter and Ginobili.
- Use the cap space on a bigman.
- Use the room exception for a backup SF.

Next season, Spurs rotation will be:
PG/SG: Parker, Green, Ginobili, De Colo and Joseph.
SF: Leonard and a backup SF signed with the room exception.
PF/C: Duncan, Splitter, cap space bigman and Diaw.

[TD 21]

It's not like a lot will be asked to the Joseph/De Colo pair.
What will be needed from them is:
- 15 mpg at PG to backup Parker.
- When Ginobili is injured, 20 mpg at SG.

With what they have shown this year and the usual improvement between the rookie/sophomore season (I know Joseph isn't technically a rookie), I'm somewhat confident they will be able to play that role next season. I just rather see Spurs using their money and resources on other needs.

To me, Spurs offseason plan should be:
- Re-sign Splitter and Ginobili.
- Use the cap space on a bigman.
- Use the room exception for a backup SF.

Next season, Spurs rotation will be:
PG/SG: Parker, Green, Ginobili, De Colo and Joseph.
SF: Leonard and a backup SF signed with the room exception.
PF/C: Duncan, Splitter, cap space bigman and Diaw.

Disagree. The days of getting by with a caretaker type next to Ginobili are over. They need someone who can assist him in carrying the bench, but more importantly, take the reigns when he's either injured or struggling. Neither De Colo or Joseph fit the bill.

Even if they follow through with your (and what I believe to be their) plan, once again they'd be a Ginobili injury away from being screwed. Clearly, they'd need him to beat the Thunder/Heat, but everyone else? They need to construct the team in a way that they can get by without him.

[ace3g]

Bruno who do you think is a legit SF that can back up Kawhi and play SG; I'm guessing you are thinking of someone that has a good 3 pt% ? I also think the back up SF should be able to play some defense.

[Bruno]

Disagree. The days of getting by with a caretaker type next to Ginobili are over.

An area where I would expect a lot of growth from De Colo and Joseph, would be their ability to do more offensively. I think, they, especially De Colo, can be more than a caretaker offensively.

Now, if your expectations for next season De Colo and Joseph are slightly improved versions of what they are doing this year, then Spurs needing another good guard is much more evident.

[Bruno]

Bruno who do you think is a legit SF that can back up Kawhi and play SG; I'm guessing you are thinking of someone that has a good 3 pt% ? I also think the back up SF should be able to play some defense.

I'm not really sure there is a good option. Kyle Korver might be the less worst solution.
Now, my pick would be to do a leap of faith with Joseph and De Colo and just go with a classic backup SF.

[Chinook]

It all depends on what it takes to bring Neal back. If he's cheap, and he's willing to accept being injury insurance and instant offense, then it makes some sense to be to use some money to re-sign him. The Spurs can always agree to a deal in principle with him and leave his $1.2 Million cap hold until after they sign/re-sign everybody. I'd rather do something like that than to spend big on another guard, since I agree that a big man is the priority. But I think it's time to face facts that the bench is broken. Ginobili just doesn't seem able to carry the bench, and it's really hurting the Spurs. This is the last off-season where the Spur have any true means to bring back a really good player.

I think they need to get the best player they can and figure out the rotation afterwards. It's possible that the best option is getting a good power-forward and moving Splitter back to the bench. It's possible that they get a good point and shift Ginobili over to the three (where he's actually not that bad). It's possible it's a combo-forward, and they play a lot of small-ball. If they can re-sign Neal, bring in an $8 Million bigman and find a good wing for the room exception, they may be able to really remake the bench.

[TD 21]

An area where I would expect a lot of growth from De Colo and Joseph, would be their ability to do more offensively. I think, they, especially De Colo, can be more than a caretaker offensively.

Now, if your expectations for next season De Colo and Joseph are slightly improved versions of what they are doing this year, then Spurs needing another good guard is much more evident.

To me, it's just too risky.

But if they decide to let Neal go and lose Mills, but don't want to splurge on a backup or block De Colo/Joseph with a veteran, I wouldn't be surprised if they targeted Canaan with their 1st round pick. He's supposed to be in their range, played four years in college and is supposedly an instant offense scorer and a high character type.

As far as a backup SF who can play some SG, that shoots the 3 well and defends at least decently, the only free agent I see who fits that description is Webster. But he's had a good season and will probably be overpaid by the Wizards. Leonard is better than any one they could get to play that role, which is all the more reason the bigger concern on the wings should be getting a quality backup SF.

[phxspurfan]

With a summer of Chip's shooting coaching, DeColo should develop the shooting touch that is necessary for him to be a backup SG for the Spurs. I say let Neal make his money elsewhere and have DeColo develop into a good combo guard here.

[pad300]

I'm not really sure there is a good option. Kyle Korver might be the less worst solution.
Now, my pick would be to do a leap of faith with Joseph and De Colo and just go with a classic backup SF.

I'd rather see Mike Dunleavy than Korver. IMO as good a shooter, more general B-ball skills. Better size, both are limited defenders...

[venitian navigator]

For next year I have high expectations on Baynes as a good part of the big rotations.
If he can contribute, a rotation of Duncan, Diaw, Splitter and Baynes (plus a strerch four, like Bonner for the minimum, for some situations) could be enough.
We lack perimeter defense and imho our wiew should be on a (very) good and athletic wing, if available...that's 'cause the thing we're gonna miss the most is the production of Manu and SJ, players that probably next year are not going to contribute at a level good enough for win it all.
Iguodala, or someone with the same skills (Webster ? Oladipo via trade on the draft day?), is the kind of player I'd like.

[Bruno]

I'd rather see Mike Dunleavy than Korver. IMO as good a shooter, more general B-ball skills. Better size, both are limited defenders...

Dunleavy might be better than Korver. He is too slow to defend SG but if he is paired with Kawhi you can make it work with Kawhi defending the opposite SG.

[pad300]

The reason I would pick Dunleavy is that I think we will need the offensive capability he will bring. He is much more versatile offensively - more than just 3pt shooting, he can pass, and go inside. With Manu as limited as he currently appears to be, we need much more than just shooting from our roleplayers, as Green and Neal are currently illustrating. Dunleavy has been a go to offensive option on a couple of teams (they weren't good teams, but he was a guy...IND 07/08 for example)

[objective]

I don't want Neal back with or without Manu. Just too small, too bad defensively, too inefficient.

Don't want Dunleavy either, even for the minimum. He'd be 33 next year and is falling off.

[BackHome]

We really need someone who can create there own shot someone who can dribble and finish at the rim and someone who has a mid range game. All we have are spot up shooters and I was hoping Pop would let Kawhi have more freedom but he is keeping him in the Bruce Bowen mold.:(.

If you look at it right now the only healthy player who can break his man down is Tony. With Manu being out we don't have a bench player that has instant offense other then spot up shooting.

[ace3g]

hey Bruno what about Tyreke Evans?

[Bruno]

hey Bruno what about Tyreke Evans?

In the next couple of years, Spurs primary perimeter players will be Parker and Leonard. If Spurs wants to spend a lot of money on a perimeter player, this player must fit well with these two players. Parker and Leonard aren't natural shooter and have a range that is limited to a corner 3. The player I would pair with them will need to be a very good 3 point shooter and Evans isn't that guy. A Parker/Evans/Leonard lineup just won't create enough spacing to be efficient offensively.

[CGD]

hey Bruno (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449) what about Tyreke Evans?

This is my pick if they don't sign a big with the money. I frankly don't think the front man rotation is terrible. Not sure what to expect from Baynes, but Diaw has been serviceable and TD/Splitt has been awesome this year.

. I've become increasingly concerned about Manus health, and do think a 6th man caliber wing makes sense going into the future. Evens needs to rehab his career, plus I think he can play at either the 2 or 3 given his athleticism.

[Chinook]

hey Bruno (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449) what about Tyreke Evans?


In the next couple of years, Spurs primary perimeter players will be Parker and Leonard. If Spurs wants to spend a lot of money on a perimeter player, this player must fit well with these two players. Parker and Leonard aren't natural shooter and have a range that is limited to a corner 3. The player I would pair with them will need to be a very good 3 point shooter and Evans isn't that guy. A Parker/Evans/Leonard lineup just won't create enough spacing to be efficient offensively.

I don't mind Evans for the bench during the post-Ginobili era. So long as Green is on the Spurs, he should be a good enough fit in the starting lineup to give Parker and Leonard enough spacing. If anything, the Duncan-Splitter combination is what would hurt the spacing going forward.

It really depends on what the Spurs decide to do with their bench. If De Colo or Joseph can shoot threes at a high-enough rate, and the front office brings in a backup three who can shoot well, then Evans is in a decent position to succeed with the reserves. If the Spurs fail to bring in a premiere big man, then it may make sense to get a good stretch four to either pair with Duncan in the starting lineup or with Splitter on the bench. Then playing Ginobili or Evans at the three could be a good idea.

Quick mock off-season:

--Trade Bonner and first-rounders for the next two seasons (after draft night when Bonner agrees to extend his deadline and trading 2013 and 2014 "picks" is possible) for Derrick Williams
--Re-sign Ginobili immediately
--Sign Evans for something around the MLE
--Re-sign Splitter
--Pick up the best depth player possible with the room exception

That should put the lineup as such:

Parker, Green, Leonard, Williams, Duncan
De Colo/Joseph, Evans, Ginobili, Diaw, Splitter
Joseph/De Colo, Mills (if he doesn't opt out) depth player, Baynes

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't mind Evans for the bench during the post-Ginobili era. So long as Green is on the Spurs, he should be a good enough fit in the starting lineup to give Parker and Leonard enough spacing. If anything, the Duncan-Splitter combination is what would hurt the spacing going forward.

It really depends on what the Spurs decide to do with their bench. If De Colo or Joseph can shoot threes at a high-enough rate, and the front office brings in a backup three who can shoot well, then Evans is in a decent position to succeed with the reserves. If the Spurs fail to bring in a premiere big man, then it may make sense to get a good stretch four to either pair with Duncan in the starting lineup or with Splitter on the bench. Then playing Ginobili or Evans at the three could be a good idea.

Quick mock off-season:

--Trade Bonner and first-rounders for the next two seasons (after draft night when Bonner agrees to extend his deadline and trading 2013 and 2014 "picks" is possible) for Derrick Williams
--Re-sign Ginobili immediately
--Sign Evans for something around the MLE
--Re-sign Splitter
--Pick up the best depth player possible with the room exception

That should put the lineup as such:

Parker, Green, Leonard, Williams, Duncan
De Colo/Joseph, Evans, Ginobili, Diaw, Splitter
Joseph/De Colo, Mills (if he doesn't opt out) depth player, Baynes

Derrick Williams would be a huge stretch.

[Chinook]

Derrick Williams would be a huge stretch.

Stretch-four? Yeah, I think so. It's a much better position for him than small-forward. :hat

But in all seriousness, it may not happen, but it's not the most unrealistic scenario out there. The Wolves just don't seem to like him, and he's taking up $5 Million next season. For a team desperate for cap space, they may be willing to let him go. They ended up giving way other high-lottery picks for far less.

[TheGoldStandard]

Stretch-four? Yeah, I think so. It's a much better position for him than small-forward. :hat

But in all seriousness, it may not happen, but it's not the most unrealistic scenario out there. The Wolves just don't seem to like him, and he's taking up $5 Million next season. For a team desperate for cap space, they may be willing to let him go. They ended up giving way other high-lottery picks for far less.

Shoot, tons of upside, good length and coachable not to mention only 21, the youth movement is a much needed movement in SA

[Chinook]

Shoot, tons of upside, good length and coachable not to mention only 21, the youth movement is a much needed movement in SA

Young players with star potential are sorely needed in San Antonio. To think what a fully actualize Leonard/Williams duo could do. :wow

[TheGoldStandard]

Young players with star potential are sorely needed in San Antonio. To think what a fully actualize Leonard/Williams duo could do. :wow

I'm still of the mindset that Cory Joseph is going to continue to evolve too, 1,2,3 punch

[cdcast]

Chinook---Evans will only be 24 next year plus he's restricted. He's getting a big contract this summer.
I can definitely see some bad team like Atlanta or Phoenix (both will have a lot of cap space) giving him
a huge contract the Kings will hesitate to match. Hawks and Suns have no shot to sign one of the big
free agents, they'll panic and give Evans something easily over $10 mil per season type of deal.

As for Williams, he's had a strong second half of season, it'll take more than Bonner/picks probably.
Plus with Pekovic being a free agent, they might just hold on to him.

You're right, they need young players with star potential. Williams and Evans would be nice targets.
They have the cap space to give Evans or some PF/C a big contract and the players (Green, De Colo,
Joseph, Diaw) for a sign and trade. The Bonner contract would be valuable for a team with luxury tax
issues- maybe a team like Denver (Chandler would be nice).

[Chinook]

Chinook---Evans will only be 24 next year plus he's restricted. He's getting a big contract this summer.
I can definitely see some bad team like Atlanta or Phoenix (both will have a lot of cap space) giving him
a huge contract the Kings will hesitate to match. Hawks and Suns have no shot to sign one of the big
free agents, they'll panic and give Evans something easily over $10 mil per season type of deal.

It's possible that Evans gets a big deal, but he's not good enough to get into a bidding war over. I wouldn't be interested in Evans for anything more than $24M/4, which is about max the Spurs could off the under my proposed scenario. I don't think the kinds are very keen on retaining Evans. If they are, then there's no way I try to give Evans a deal too big for them to match.

Also, Atlanta's a good team. They'll have a fine free agency.


As for Williams, he's had a strong second half of season, it'll take more than Bonner/picks probably.
Plus with Pekovic being a free agent, they might just hold on to him.

Possible. But it's also possible that they Wolves try to move Williams to free up more money to re-sign Pekovic. He's restricted, so they'll probably match any offer. When love comes back, Williams is a bench player again. Adelman seems to like Cunningham in that role, so it wouldn't surprise me to see Williams lose most of his playing time again next season.

I used to like the idea of getting Chandler, but his contract is way too big for Leonard's backup.

[CGD]

So what the heck are the Spurs going to do with this guy this offseason? I feel if they are serious about Cory and Nando they need to let this guy go. Any chance he can be moved in a trade day deal? Someone else can decide whether to pay him or not. Do they extend the QO and, assuming another team doesnt pay more, just keep him one more year?

Its a shame Mills hasnt played that well during his stint in SA. It would make the decision a lot easier. Btw I assume that once Mills (and Diaws) player options are exercised that they can be traded, right?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I think they have to let him go. Too much of a liability on defense. CoJo and Nando make him superfluous at the 1 and 2. Just no fit for him anymore. He'll make bank elsewhere.

[CGD]

In the end I believe you're right, but damn he puts up numbers in a hurry. No one else on the team has that instant offense quality to them. I think the Spurs thought Mills could be that, but he's underwhelmed. I'm still hoping we can flip him and the 28th for a better pick.

[Captivus]

When is the last day to make the Qualifying Offer?

[Chinook]

When is the last day to make the Qualifying Offer?

I think right before free agency starts. It's only for less than a million dollars when you factor in the roster charge. If Neal doesn't sign the QO immediately, the Spurs have time to withdraw if they need the space to sign someone. No matter what happens, tendering Neal at the beginning of the off-season seems like a no-brainer.

[Captivus]

I think right before free agency starts. It's only for less than a million dollars when you factor in the roster charge. If Neal doesn't sign the QO immediately, the Spurs have time to withdraw if they need the space to sign someone. No matter what happens, tendering Neal at the beginning of the off-season seems like a no-brainer.

Yes...QO has to be done before free agency, so the player becomes a RFA.
So, June 30 is the deadline for QO. (I google it)
The Draft is June 27, so the Spurs need to make the QO before that...
Assuming Neal accepts the QO, when is the deadline for other team offers? Before the Draft?
How does this work? I assume you cant trade a player 3 days before he accepts the QO?

[bluebellmaniac]

I think right before free agency starts. It's only for less than a million dollars when you factor in the roster charge. If Neal doesn't sign the QO immediately, the Spurs have time to withdraw if they need the space to sign someone. No matter what happens, tendering Neal at the beginning of the off-season seems like a no-brainer.

Here is who we have under contract for next season along with Blair and Neal, who I think are not on the team next season. With the assumption that we re-sign Manu and Splitter, we have 12 spots filled. If we keep our first round pick (and it is not a stash), that is 13 slots filled. If we bring Bertans over so he can start the acclimation process to our system (a 2 year process no doubt), that is 14 slots filled. I think even with Bertans we will need to rent a veteran SF for a year or two who can smooth over the transition (because I don't think Bertans will be ready next year). I also believe that Bertans will spend a considerable amount of time in Austin, similar to CoJo. That makes 15 slots.



Player
2013/2014
2014/2015


Manu Ginobili (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=354)
TBD
TBD


Tony Parker (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=360)
$12,500,000
$12,500,000


Tim Duncan (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=352)
$10,361,446
$10,000,000


Boris Diaw (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=316)
$4,702,500
N/A


Tiago Splitter (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=713)
TBD
TBD


Matt Bonner (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=382)
$3,945,000
N/A


Danny Green (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1150)
$3,762,500
$4,025,000


Kawhi Leonard (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1754)
$1,887,840
$2,894,059


Nando De Colo (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1201)
$1,463,000
$1,901,900


Patrick Mills (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1152)
$1,133,950
N/A


Cory Joseph (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1780)
$1,120,920
$2,023,261


DeJuan Blair (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1109)
Gone
Gone


Gary Neal (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1127)
Gone
Gone


Aron Baynes (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1276)
$788,872
$1,115,243


* Data courtesy of Sham's.

The NBA draft is June 27th. So by the 28th the team will know if they need a slot for their draft pick (if it was traded or not). If we don't keep our first round pick, then that would open up the opportunity to make a QO to Neal.

Qualifying offers are tendered by June 30th. So there is a gap between the draft and when QO go out and when FA can sign. Negotiations with FA can begin July 1st, but can not sign until July 8th.

My info for the QO and FA signing dates is courtesy of the NBA website: http://www.nba.com/knicks/freeagency/faqs.html

So it'll be a wait and see what happens with the draft. If we draft a SG, like I think we will, then that will pretty much shut the door on Neal.

[Chinook]

Yes...QO has to be done before free agency, so the player becomes a RFA.
So, June 30 is the deadline for QO. (I google it)
The Draft is June 27, so the Spurs need to make the QO before that...
Assuming Neal accepts the QO, when is the deadline for other team offers? Before the Draft?
How does this work? I assume you cant trade a player 3 days before he accepts the QO?

The Spurs can't trade Neal during the draft no matter what. A QO isn't a contract; it's just a tender unless/until Neal signs it. He's not going to do that, and so he's pretty much a cap hold for the first couple of weeks.

Also, teams can't sign him to an offer sheet until July. He's not a free agent until then.

[Chinook]

Here is who we have under contract for next season along with Blair and Neal, who I think are not on the team next season. With the assumption that we re-sign Manu and Splitter, we have 12 spots filled. If we keep our first round pick (and it is not a stash), that is 13 slots filled. If we bring Bertans over so he can start the acclimation process to our system (a 2 year process no doubt), that is 14 slots filled. I think even with Bertans we will need to rent a veteran SF for a year or two who can smooth over the transition (because I don't think Bertans will be ready next year). I also believe that Bertans will spend a considerable amount of time in Austin, similar to CoJo. That makes 15 slots.



Player
2013/2014
2014/2015


Manu Ginobili (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=354)
TBD
TBD


Tony Parker (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=360)
$12,500,000
$12,500,000


Tim Duncan (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=352)
$10,361,446
$10,000,000


Boris Diaw (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=316)
$4,702,500
N/A


Tiago Splitter (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=713)
TBD
TBD


Matt Bonner (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=382)
$3,945,000
N/A


Danny Green (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1150)
$3,762,500
$4,025,000


Kawhi Leonard (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1754)
$1,887,840
$2,894,059


Nando De Colo (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1201)
$1,463,000
$1,901,900


Patrick Mills (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1152)
$1,133,950
N/A


Cory Joseph (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1780)
$1,120,920
$2,023,261


DeJuan Blair (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1109)
Gone
Gone


Gary Neal (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1127)
Gone
Gone


Aron Baynes (http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/playerProfiles/profileDisplay.jsp?id=1276)
$788,872
$1,115,243


* Data courtesy of Sham's.

The NBA draft is June 27th. So by the 28th the team will know if they need a slot for their draft pick (if it was traded or not). If we don't keep our first round pick, then that would open up the opportunity to make a QO to Neal.

Qualifying offers are tendered by June 30th. So there is a gap between the draft and when QO go out and when FA can sign. Negotiations with FA can begin July 1st, but can not sign until July 8th.

My info for the QO and FA signing dates is courtesy of the NBA website: http://www.nba.com/knicks/freeagency/faqs.html

So it'll be a wait and see what happens with the draft. If we draft a SG, like I think we will, then that will pretty much shut the door on Neal.

Good stuff. The Spurs' roster jam makes signing Neal not as clear cut, although they might be able to go over 15 players because they can have 20 in for training camp. That would give them time to sort everything out.

I don't think the Spurs will draft a two-guard unless that player is essentially a Neal clone AND Mills is likely to opt out along with Neal not being retained. I don't see any way the Spurs guarantee contracts to four points, three two-guards and three small-forwards next season. I'd rather see them add a project big with their pick, anyway, although I haven't really started looking at draft boards yet.

[Ditty]

If he helps us win it all this year then I say we bring him back. If not then I won't miss him, as we need more then one dimensional players down the line. I know there will probably be a couple of games or so that we will lose next year that we had a cold shooting, and people will be saying that we would of won the game if Neal was on the team:cry.

[bluebellmaniac]

Good stuff. The Spurs' roster jam makes signing Neal not as clear cut, although they might be able to go over 15 players because they can have 20 in for training camp. That would give them time to sort everything out.

I don't think the Spurs will draft a two-guard unless that player is essentially a Neal clone AND Mills is likely to opt out along with Neal not being retained. I don't see any way the Spurs guarantee contracts to four points, three two-guards and three small-forwards next season. I'd rather see them add a project big with their pick, anyway, although I haven't really started looking at draft boards yet.

Mills opting out wouldn't be a bad thing. I think we bring in a project big if he does. We are overfilled at PG given that Manu is an unspoken backup as well.

[jesterbobman]

If Mills doesn't opt out, I'd look to trade him to some team that needs a backup PG for a future top 55 protected pick. Doesn't make sense to keep with Parker, Nando, Cojo here already and those 2 presumably ahead of Mills in the pecking order. He should get work, but he'd probably only get minimum deal and might like the certainty of having the contract, and a trade would give him a chance to play more than spot minutes.

[bluebellmaniac]

If Mills doesn't opt out, I'd look to trade him to some team that needs a backup PG for a future top 55 protected pick. Doesn't make sense to keep with Parker, Nando, Cojo here already and those 2 presumably ahead of Mills in the pecking order. He should get work, but he'd probably only get minimum deal and might like the certainty of having the contract, and a trade would give him a chance to play more than spot minutes.

Exactly, and that is the kind of thing that makes this FO such a great place for players to land. They look out for their players, even when their time with the team is up. Trading him would be a win for Mills in that he'd likely get more playing time than he would on this team. We wouldn't really get anything with a top 55 protected pick, but that wouldn't be the point. Opening up the roster spot is what we need while taking care of a player who's done what we've asked in this system (to the best he can).

[Captivus]

The Spurs can't trade Neal during the draft no matter what. A QO isn't a contract; it's just a tender unless/until Neal signs it. He's not going to do that, and so he's pretty much a cap hold for the first couple of weeks.

Also, teams can't sign him to an offer sheet until July. He's not a free agent until then.

So the Spurs cant use him to get a higher draft pick.
They will make the QO, he would accept it probably before the draft. But the Spurs cant use him...shame...unless he signs with the Spurs or another team before that...which doesnt make sense, he can wait until July like you said...smh...

[Chinook]

So the Spurs cant use him to get a higher draft pick.
They will make the QO, he would accept it probably before the draft. But the Spurs cant use him...shame...unless he signs with the Spurs or another team before that...which doesnt make sense, he can wait until July like you said...smh...

Neal would not accept a qualifying offer before the draft. It's only $1.1 Million. Neal will almost certainly make more than that if he waits. Moreover, Neal is NOT a free agent until July. He can't sign with the Spurs or anyone before then. He's also an expiring contract, which means he's untradeable during the draft. His qualifying offer won't affect that.

Also, why would Neal accept a qualifying offer just so the Spurs could trade him? It's pretty much a minimum contract, and he'd be giving up his right to choose his team.

[Captivus]

Neal would not accept a qualifying offer before the draft. It's only $1.1 Million. Neal will almost certainly make more than that if he waits. Moreover, Neal is NOT a free agent until July. He can't sign with the Spurs or anyone before then. He's also an expiring contract, which means he's untradeable during the draft. His qualifying offer won't affect that.

Also, why would Neal accept a qualifying offer just so the Spurs could trade him? It's pretty much a minimum contract, and he'd be giving up his right to choose his team.

Does he thinks he can get more minutes in another team?
Does he want to go to another team?

If he accepts the QO he is a RFA, so the Spurs have the right to match any offer, thats the key to me, does he want to continue to play for the Spurs?

Neal's agent is probably talking to teams right now, the salary increase should be there, the question is does he want to stay?

[Mel_13]

Does he thinks he can get more minutes in another team?
Does he want to go to another team?

If he accepts the QO he is a RFA, so the Spurs have the right to match any offer, thats the key to me, does he want to continue to play for the Spurs?

Neal's agent is probably talking to teams right now, the salary increase should be there, the question is does he want to stay?

You're a little confused on this.

1. When the Spurs tender the QO, Neal becomes an RFA.

2. As an RFA, the Spurs can match any offer sheet that Neal signs with another team.

3. Neal would only sign the QO (a one year contract) if he did not receive any better offers. That is highly unlikely.

4. If Neal's agent is talking to any other team right now, he's breaking the rules. Any other team caught talking with Neal or his agent now can be punished for tampering. Neal can only talk to the Spurs until he becomes a free agent on July 1st.

[Chinook]

Does he thinks he can get more minutes in another team?
Does he want to go to another team?

If he accepts the QO he is a RFA, so the Spurs have the right to match any offer, thats the key to me, does he want to continue to play for the Spurs?

Neal's agent is probably talking to teams right now, the salary increase should be there, the question is does he want to stay?

If Neal's agent is talking to other teams, then that's illegal. Neal is not a free agent until July. He's not allowed to act like one. Teams that tried negotiating with him would be tampering, which can come with pretty severe penalties.

I don't know what the bolded part of my post has to do with your reply.

Neal doesn't get to "accept" a QO in the sense you seem to mean it. It's not a contract; it's a tender. The Spurs can tender him without his consent. If he were to sign the tender, THEN it becomes a contract. However, signing a QO also takes away his RFA status -- he'd just be a player under contract. He couldn't negotiate with the Spurs or anyone else until the following off-season. He would, however, gain a de facto no-trade clause, but that's incidental. If he refuses to sign his tender (and doesn't get signed by anyone else), his rights remain with the Spurs ad infinitum.

When I said he wouldn't accept his QO, I meant that he wouldn't sign his tender, as he'd want to remain a free agent as long as possible. The only way he'd sign his offer quickly would be if he wanted to get out of San Antonio as quickly as possible, but the Spurs made it known they'd match any offer. But that's not even close to a realistic scenario. That doesn't mean he would not want to come back to the Spurs, but he wouldn't be able to negotiate a long-term deal with them, either, once he signs his QO.

In any event, Neal is still untradeable during the draft. No finagling will change the CBA.

[Chinook]

Just when I thought you had gotten complacent, you pop up to beat me to the punch again, Mel_13 :lol

[Mel_13]

Just when I thought you had gotten complacent, you pop up to beat me to the punch again, Mel_13 :lol

:lol

Mostly leaving this stuff alone until after the playoffs, but Captivus looked like he needed some help.

[Captivus]

You're a little confused on this.

1. When the Spurs tender the QO, Neal becomes an RFA.

2. As an RFA, the Spurs can match any offer sheet that Neal signs with another team.

3. Neal would only sign the QO (a one year contract) if he did not receive any better offers. That is highly unlikely.

4. If Neal's agent is talking to any other team right now, he's breaking the rules. Any other team caught talking with Neal or his agent now can be punished for tampering. Neal can only talk to the Spurs until he becomes a free agent on July 1st.


If Neal's agent is talking to other teams, then that's illegal. Neal is not a free agent until July. He's not allowed to act like one. Teams that tried negotiating with him would be tampering, that can comes with pretty severe penalties.

I don't know what the bolded part of my post has to do with your reply. NOTHING! (I deleted that part and forgot to change the format in your post)

Neal doesn't get to "accept" a QO in the sense you seem to mean it. It's not a contract; it's a tender. The Spurs can tender him without his consent. If he were to sign the tender, THEN it becomes a contract. However, signing a QO also takes away his RFA status -- he'd just be a player under contract. He couldn't negotiate with the Spurs or anyone else until the following off-season. He would, however, gain a de facto no-trade clause, but that's incidental. If he refuses to sign his tender, his rights remain with the Spurs ad infinitum.

When I said he wouldn't accept his QO, I meant that he wouldn't sign his tender, as he'd want to remain a free agent as long as possible. The only way he'd sign his offer quickly would be if he wanted to get out of San Antonio as quickly as possible, but the Spurs made it known they'd match any offer. But that's not even close to a realistic scenario. That doesn't mean he would not want to come back to the Spurs, but he wouldn't be able to negotiate a long-term deal with them, either, once he signs his QO.

In any event, Neal is still untradeable during the draft. No finagling will change the CBA.

Thank you both.
One more question: See bolded part. Can you explain that. If he sign the QO, his salary is $1.1, isnt it?

[Chinook]

Thank you both.
One more question: See bolded part. Can you explain that. If he sign the QO, his salary is $1.1, isnt it?

I hesitated to even bring up that scenario, as it NEVER happens, especially not to players of Neal's caliber.

Good players tend to stay with the team that drafted them for 7-9 years, because after their rookie deal is done, they're RFAs. So even though they'd probably like to leave their teams if they're bad like the Raptors or Kings, they'd rather get a big contract. So they just accept a max extension from their current team, as that team will probably match whatever deal another team gives to a player.

If the good player REALLY wanted to leave his team as soon as possible, he'd just sign his QO when free agency starts. That means he'd have to play for his current team one more year, but after that, he'd be unrestricted and could sign with the team of his choice without fear of his current team matching. He's also gain a de factor no-trade clause, which would allow him to choose whatever team he wanted to go to if his current team wanted to get something from him.

You never see this maneuver, though, because it's financially and socially risky. The player gives up a lot of guaranteed money and really earns his team's ill will . It makes for a terrible year for everyone. However, when you hear players like Eric Gordan beg Phoenix not to match his offer sheet, you have to laugh. He could have just signed his QO and picked his place his season. Instead, he's stuck in New Orleans or wherever the Pelicans decide to ship him for the next three years.


As far as Neal goes, however, that means nothing. If he REALLY wanted to leave the Spurs, they'd just let him go. The only player they'd keep against his will (for more than just one season) is Leonard. Neal just isn't worth the struggle.

[Captivus]

I hesitated to even bring up that scenario, as it NEVER happens, especially not to players of Neal's caliber.

Good players tend to stay with the team that drafted them for 7-9 years, because after their rookie deal is done, they're RFAs. So even though they'd probably like to leave their teams if they're bad like the Raptors or Kings, they'd rather get a big contract. So they just accept a max extension from their current team, as that team will probably match whatever deal another team gives to a player.

If the good player REALLY wanted to leave his team as soon as possible, he'd just sign his QO when free agency starts. That means he'd have to play for his current team one more year, but after that, he'd be unrestricted and could sign with the team of his choice without fear of his current team matching. He's also gain a de factor no-trade clause, which would allow him to choose whatever team he wanted to go to if his current team wanted to get something from him.

You never see this maneuver, though, because it's financially and socially risky. The player gives up a lot of guaranteed money and really earns his team's ill will . It makes for a terrible year for everyone. However, when you hear players like Eric Gordan beg Phoenix not to match his offer sheet, you have to laugh. He could have just signed his QO and picked his place his season. Instead, he's stuck in New Orleans or wherever the Pelicans decide to ship him for the next three years.


As far as Neal goes, however, that means nothing. If he REALLY wanted to leave the Spurs, they'd just let him go. The only player they'd keep against his will (for more than just one season) is Leonard. Neal just isn't worth the struggle.

Perfect!
At the end, the Spurs will tender him a QO, he wont sign it, he will look for other teams and see his value. Assuming he will receive offers the question is:
How much are the Spurs willing to pay for him? By that time, the draft is over and he will know if the spurs drafted a backcourt player.
Like you said, if he want to leave they will just let him.

Keeping Leonard against his will!!

[CGD]

The Spurs can't trade Neal during the draft no matter what. A QO isn't a contract; it's just a tender unless/until Neal signs it. He's not going to do that, and so he's pretty much a cap hold for the first couple of weeks.

Also, teams can't sign him to an offer sheet until July. He's not a free agent until then.

wait, could someone please reconcile the first sentence above, with what the Spurs did with George Hill? Before trading him to the pacers weren't the Spurs going to have to decide whether to extend him a QO?

[Chinook]

wait, could someone please reconcile the first sentence above, with what the Spurs did with George Hill? Before trading him to the pacers weren't the Spurs going to have to decide whether to extend him a QO?

Hill had a year left on his deal. Neal does not. Hill's RFA off-season was after his first with the Pacers. Remember, Hill had a four-year deal, while Neal had a three-year deal.

[CGD]

Hill had a year left on his deal. Neal does not. Hill's RFA off-season was after his first with the Pacers. Remember, Hill had a four-year deal, while Neal had a three-year deal.
Thanks for that. All this time, I thought he was going into his RFA year.

[Chinook]

Thanks for that. All this time, I thought he was going into his RFA year.

Being an RFA isn't really a year-long thing. It's almost always resolved in the off-season, either through a new deal or just the player signing the QO. Hill was only an RFA for a few days, for example.

[SenorSpur]

Neal and Blair are two players that just don't give us what we need which is being athletic and a good defender. They are both tweeners playing out of their positions and we can do better by replacing them by draft or free agency.

Add Bonner to this list too. That's 3 roster spots that are being underutilized.

[SenorSpur]

As far as Neal goes, however, that means nothing. If he REALLY wanted to leave the Spurs, they'd just let him go. The only player they'd keep against his will (for more than just one season) is Leonard. Neal just isn't worth the struggle.

I agree. I've soured on Neal and I hope the Spurs have too. His limitations, as a one-tool player, are too pronounced for a team that is a perennial championship contender. He's a terrible defender, poor ball-handler and offers nothing in the way of playmaking. This experiment has run it's course and it's high time that Pop stop falling in love with one-tool players. Let the guy walk and fill his spot with a young, cheap player that can be productive on both sides of the ball.

[td4mvp2k]

If Mills doesn't opt out, I'd look to trade him to some team that needs a backup PG for a future top 55 protected pick. Doesn't make sense to keep with Parker, Nando, Cojo here already and those 2 presumably ahead of Mills in the pecking order. He should get work, but he'd probably only get minimum deal and might like the certainty of having the contract, and a trade would give him a chance to play more than spot minutes. a trade wit mills or nando in the draft would be good

[exstatic]

I agree. I've soured on Neal and I hope the Spurs have too. His limitations, as a one-tool player, are too pronounced for a team that is a perennial championship contender. He's a terrible defender, poor ball-handler and offers nothing in the way of playmaking. This experiment has run it's course and it's high time that Pop stop falling in love with one-tool players. Let the guy walk and fill his spot with a young, cheap player that can be productive on both sides of the ball.

The thing about Neal, though is that, outside of Tony and Manu, he's the only ball handler that can get his own shot pretty consistently.

[SenorSpur]

The thing about Neal, though is that, outside of Tony and Manu, he's the only ball handler that can get his own shot pretty consistently.

Yeah, but his negatives have started to outweigh his positives. And I wouldn't exactly call Neal a ball handler either. Surely, the Spurs can find another player capable of getting his own shot on one end, but isn't the turnstile that Neal is on the defensive end.

[exstatic]

Yeah, but his negatives have started to outweigh his positives. And I wouldn't exactly call Neal a ball handler either. Surely, the Spurs can find another player capable of getting his own shot on one end, but isn't the turnstile that Neal is on the defensive end.

For a million dollars? At the cost of no assets? People forget that Neal cost us nothing to get, and costs us almost nothing to keep.

[SenorSpur]

For a million dollars? At the cost of no assets? People forget that Neal cost us nothing to get, and costs us almost nothing to keep.

I understand that he's a cheap backup option. Still, for me that doesn't mitigate his negatives and it doesn't make me feel any better about him. We've had a 3-yr look at him and unfortunately he is what he is. I trust the Spurs will find a better option than him for next year.

[exstatic]

I understand that he's a cheap backup option. Still, for me that doesn't mitigate his negatives and it doesn't make me feel any better about him. We've had a 3-yr look at him and unfortunately he is what he is. I trust the Spurs will find a better option than him for next year.

Yeah, good luck with that.

[yavozerb]

For a million dollars? At the cost of no assets? People forget that Neal cost us nothing to get, and costs us almost nothing to keep.

How do you know it will cost "almost nothing to keep"? Alot of teams need shooters like Neal and I would not be suprised to see him get a contract like green's. Just cannot see the spurs giving a contract like that to Neal at that position which has depth already.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

How do you know it will cost "almost nothing to keep"? Alot of teams need shooters like Neal and I would not be suprised to see him get a contract like green's. Just cannot see the spurs giving a contract like that to Neal at that position which has depth already.

I agree, someone's going to overpay him this summer.

[Gagnrath]

Make Neal a 3.5 mil per year offer. If he takes it great if not let him go.

[Mel_13]

Make Neal a 3.5 mil per year offer. If he takes it great if not let him go.

The Spurs only keep Neal if the cost is substantially less than that. If there's a team out there willing to give him that much money then the Spurs will let him go.

[Gagnrath]

That's below mid level exception, and as a high quality backup combo guard neal should be in the 3 to 5 mill range. I know he had a down year this year but he also had lingering moderate injury issues and still was fairly effective.

[Mel_13]

That's below mid level exception, and as a high quality backup combo guard neal should be in the 3 to 5 mill range. I know he had a down year this year but he also had lingering moderate injury issues and still was fairly effective.

I don't disagree. Neal may very well be able to command the money you suggest from one or more teams in the NBA. I just don't believe that he's worth that much to the Spurs. On the Spurs, he projects to be no better than the 3rd string SG and 3rd string PG. 3rd string players can't take up much more than a minimum salary slot on your roster.

[Gagnrath]

Mel I think he's in truth second string sg and third string pg. Lets look at the number of games Manu misses.

[Mel_13]

Mel I think he's in truth second string sg and third string pg. Lets look at the number of games Manu misses.

That may be true, but Manu will still get paid. IMO, no room on the payroll for Neal at the price you suggest.

[Bruno]

To me, the situation is very clear and simple: Spurs will have to decide this summer between Neal and De Colo.

[Chinook]

^ I'd say De Colo is the obvious choice, but he may well ask for a trade/release. Joseph's hold on the backup spot should only get tighter, and it may not be enough to De Colo to get Ginobili's and Green's scraps. Add in Mills potentially opting in, and Nando may not like what he sees. There are definite scenarios in which none of Neal, Mills and De Colo come back. Those probably start with the Spurs drafting another guard and bringing over Hanga or Denmon.

[ABC]

I can't see De Colo asking for a trade or to be released. He got a decent amount of minutes for a rookie (more than Bonner, Blair, Mills, or Joseph) and must have known coming to the Spurs he was unlikely to be part of the rotation his first season. Plus he has Parker and Diaw around to help him be patient. I also think the Spurs are still high on him, certainly higher than they are on Hanga or Denmon. I think the Spurs will let Neal walk. De Colo does everything better than Neal except shoot, and De Colo is still a good, if streaky, shooter. Bertans can replace Neal's shooting anyway :)

[Chinook]

I can't see De Colo asking for a trade or to be released. He got a decent amount of minutes for a rookie (more than Bonner, Blair, Mills, or Joseph) and must have known coming to the Spurs he was unlikely to be part of the rotation his first season. Plus he has Parker and Diaw around to help him be patient. I also think the Spurs are still high on him, certainly higher than they are on Hanga or Denmon. I think the Spurs will let Neal walk. De Colo does everything better than Neal except shoot, and De Colo is still a good, if streaky, shooter. Bertans can replace Neal's shooting anyway :)

I agree, but reading some of De Colo's interviews, it seems like he's really not happy with his role in San Antonio. If Joseph wins the backup point spot for good and Mills stays, De Colo can find himself deactivated for most of the year. He's already in a suit now. He doesn't like going to the d-league, and I think that's one of the reasons Joseph (who actually asked to be sent there) has the inside track to the position now. It could be a Jack/Green type of thing, although I doubt it would come to that.

I think Nando has a great role to play as the fifth guard, essentially replacing Neal's spot in the rotation but being a better facilitator. If Neal goes, Pop should be able to find room for De Colo to get about 12-18 minutes a night. But drafting a guard in the first round and not moving Mills would put the roster in another crunch. I don't expect him to ask to be traded at least until training camp ends and some semblance of a rotation is created. I just think it's a story worth following.

[ABC]

I agree, but reading some of De Colo's interviews, it seems like he's really not happy with his role in San Antonio. If Joseph wins the backup point spot for good and Mills stays, De Colo can find himself deactivated for most of the year. He's already in a suit now. He doesn't like going to the d-league, and I think that's one of the reasons Joseph (who actually asked to be sent there) has the inside track to the position now. It could be a Jack/Green type of thing, although I doubt it would come to that.

I think Nando has a great role to play as the fifth guard, essentially replacing Neal's spot in the rotation but being a better facilitator. If Neal goes, Pop should be able to find room for De Colo to get about 12-18 minutes a night. But drafting a guard in the first round and not moving Mills would put the roster in another crunch. I don't expect him to ask to be traded at least until training camp ends and some semblance of a rotation is created. I just think it's a story worth following.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it works out. It just feels like De Colo is the kind of player Popovich has been looking for for a while now: a shooting guard who can run the offense, make shots, and not be a liability on defense. Hard to see Pop letting him go. I could even see De Colo getting a fair amount of Manu's regular season minutes next year for his development and to try to keep Manu healthy.

[td4mvp2k]

signd!

[pad300]

Congratulations on breaking the bank Mr. Neal, we'd love to keep you, but we can't afford you any more...

[Chinook]

Congratulations on breaking the bank Mr. Neal, we'd love to keep you, but we can't afford you any more...

The more money he earns, the better for the Spurs, because it becomes more likely that whichever teams that signs him will need/want to do a sign-and-trade to acquire him.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Bye Bye De Colo...

Improve your defense over the offseason trainng schedule, Neal and you will remain a Spur for a few more years.

[Mal]

Hopefully he`ll go with coach Bud and Blair to Hawks

[jesterbobman]

Gary Neal probably just JJ Barea'd himself out of any chance the Spurs keep him. Good for him. If we win the finals and gets paid $122130947379732897295729273 from the Lakers, I'll be delighted.

[Bruno]

If Spurs wants to keep Neal, they would have no issue doing so.

Spurs are just in a truly amazing situation financially wise this summer. If you take the less favorable scenario (Diaw and Mills opting in, Bonner being kept and pick #28 signing for 120% of the rookie scale), Spurs payroll will be $42.7M. The luxury tax threshold is projected to be at $71.6M. Spurs have $28.9M in salary below the tax to re-sign Ginobili, Neal, Splitter and to maybe add a player with the MLE. It should be way enough.

And on top of that, Spurs are in a very strong position with these 3 free agents by having full bird right on all 3, with Neal and Splitter being restricted and with Ginobili wanting to stay in San Antonio.

If Spurs' plan for this summer, is basically to stand pat, their off-season is gonna be a cakewalk. Ton of money available and the upper hand on every single player they might want to keep.

[smaka]

Neal just earned a big pay check with his performance tonight... It will be interesting to see if Spurs decide to keep him and how much money other teams will throw at him.

[Captivus]

Neal can play.
We need to separate the regular season and the post season. Post season teams are better, and thats the reason every player has dificulties.
Even Lebron cant dominate the Spurs, does Miami say: Trade him!. No, they dont.
Neal is a keeper, and he has shown it in the RS. I think a player like Bonner is the problem, he didnt do a lot during RS either. Neal had his games

[Chinook]

I think the Spurs will only try to keep him if they've given up on the idea of Ginobili being the sixth man. They need some scoring off the bench, and while I'd rather get a big who can provide that, Neal is a fall-back option. Really, though, the Spurs can't afford to pay a lot for Green, Neal and Ginobili to all play the same position, so I think they should let him go and try to work out a sign-and-trade or just try to find a cheaper replacement in the draft or in free agency.

[lurker23]

In some form or fashion, Neal is going to get overpaid this offseason. What's the realistic ceiling on that contract? 3 years, $15 million? 4 years, $18 million?

Personally, I think it would be best for both parties for the Spurs and Neal to part ways. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving him after last night's game 3. However, he's a gunner who hasn't seen a shot he doesn't like. Ultimately, that doesn't fit into the Spurs scheme, nor can the Spurs offer him more than 20-25 minutes a night. I think he moves on, becomes a 2nd or 3rd option offensively on a decent team, and gets 30 mpg.

[Baam]

I don't know, he has been great for us but then again he doesn't play both ways as well as Green and Leonard, he does put the ball on the floor better tho and he has the best offensive game. With Manu declining, unless they trade to move up in the draft for someone like Karasev I think they will resign him.

[CGD]

Have a feeling he and Blair will end up with coach Bud in the ATL. I also think Ferry will through money at Splitter.

[exstatic]

Have a feeling he and Blair will end up with coach Bud in the ATL. I also think Ferry will through money at Splitter.

I doubt it. He's probably building from the ground up. That means draft picks, and using cap space to acquire young assets and draft picks, not FAs.

[CGD]

I doubt it. He's probably building from the ground up. That means draft picks, and using cap space to acquire young assets and draft picks, not FAs.

Nah, I think if they can get a FA for value they'd do it in a heartbeat. What team wouldnt? And actually tiago's poor playoff series against the heat actually may embolden teams to try to outbid the spurs since the spurs may have second thoughts about giving him a large pay day.

also this: http://fansided.com/2013/05/10/dallas-mavericks-atlanta-hawks-want-san-antonio-spurs-center-tiago-splitter/

[TrainOfThought5]

I like Neal. but with the emergence of Green and "re-emergence" of Ginobili, Neal is a luxury we cant afford.

i wanted to get better in the backcourt defensively anyway.

I guess it depends on who would you rather have between De Colo and Neal. Id rather have De Colo for his upside, youth, better passing ball handling and defense.

[Raven]

neal is 28, he'd be wise to cash in as much as possible as he has earned almost nothing up until now.

[AFBlue]

Any news on whether the QO has been extended to "restrict" him?

[CGD]

Not to my knowledge, seems odd no?

[Captivus]

Whats going on with Neal??
Any news?

[td4mvp2k]

Whats going on with Neal??
Any news?

he shood be up afta manu

[Mel_13]

He's restricted. Let the market determine his value and then decide on whether or not to match.

No reason to rush.

[elemento]

He's restricted. Let the market determine his value and then decide on whether or not to match.

No reason to rush.

Pretty much

WB Mel

Long time no see :toast

[DrunkTXLabrat]

He's restricted. Let the market determine his value and then decide on whether or not to match.

No reason to rush.

x2

[Mel_13]

Pretty much

WB Mel

Long time no see :toast

Thanks :toast