2013 Free Agent: Paul Millsap

[Bruno]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_paul_millsap.jpg
Born: Feb 10, 1985
Height: 6-8 / 2.03
Weight: 253 lbs. / 114.8 kg.
Prior to NBA / Country: Louisiana Tech / USA

Info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/paul_millsap/career_stats.html)

[Bruno]

If Spurs have around $10M in cap space after resigning Manu, Millsap would be my primary FA target. I like more players like Al Jefferson or Josh Smith but I doubt they would sign for that amount. Gasol would be above all these players but he might not be amnestied or another team might claim him for more money.

[jesterbobman]

I'd have Millsap before Jefferson, and it's close with Gasol(In a World where we keep Splitter, he'd be just Without Splitter, It's Gasol.) He's an efficient scorer, good enough rebounder and can shoot and pass well enough to play in a Spurs system. Gives an additional option against the Big SF's/Quick PF's.

Given his excellent Adjusted +/- numbers, I'd expect the Rockets to throw a bunch of money at him though(If they miss on Dwight)

[Richie]

If Spurs have around $10M in cap space after resigning Manu, Millsap would be my primary FA target. I like more players like Al Jefferson or Josh Smith but I doubt they would sign for that amount. Gasol would be above all these players but he might not be amnestied or another team might claim him for more money.

Exactly my feelings. My only worry is that we won't be able to scrape together $10m. He also might get offered more by another team, but he might value the Spurs championship ambitions.

If we can get a player like Millsap, who knows where the Spurs might go in future. A team of Parker/Green/Kawhi/Millsap/Splitter is playoff quality, albeit probably not a contender.

[Redshadows]

If Spurs have around $10M in cap space after resigning Manu, Millsap would be my primary FA target. I like more players like Al Jefferson or Josh Smith but I doubt they would sign for that amount. Gasol would be above all these players but he might not be amnestied or another team might claim him for more money.
Could Spurs sign Millsap after resigning Manu and Splitter?

[MaNu4Tres]

Hey Bruno, question.

If Spurs elect to resign Manu and Splitter before any other moves, is there a chance Spurs could include Diaw (if he accepts his option to stay) in a sign and trade so they can offer more money to their desired FA target?

[Bruno]

Could Spurs sign Millsap after resigning Manu and Splitter?

It will depends on how much money Ginobili and Millsap will cost and the level of the cap. Splitter isn't really part of the equation since you can sign him last for whatever amount you want.

To make it simple, with a cap of $62M, Spurs will have $16.3M to split between Ginobili and Millsap. If Ginobili is fine with $6M per years, Spurs could offer Millsap a contract starting at $10.3M.

[Bruno]

Hey Bruno, question.

If Spurs elect to resign Manu and Splitter before any other moves, is there a chance Spurs could include Diaw (if he accepts his option to stay) in a sign and trade so they can offer more money to their desired FA target?

The logical order to sign players for Spurs this summer would be Manu first, cap space free agent second and Splitter third.

Diaw could be of course included in a sign and trade but the other team would have to accept taking him. What could help Spurs is that the team minimum salary will now 90% of the cap. A team like Utah, with only $26M of salaries committed in 2013-2014 will have no financial interest to have a payroll below about $55M. Diaw might be basically free for them.

Another option with Diaw would be to waive him and sue the stretch provision. His $4.7M salary will be spread in 3 years ($1.57M per year). If you count the additional roster hold of $0.49M, waiving him with the stretch provision would create an additional $2.64M of cap space. The drawback of that move would be that you lower both your 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 capspace by $1.57M.

[Chinook]

Bruno are you counting 500k that I'm not seeing?

I got 62M (cap) - 39.2M (salary charge) - 7.5M (Splitter) + 490k (roster charge) - 6M (Ginobili) + 490k (r.c.) + 490k (r.c.) = 10.8M

Did I forget someone?

[Bruno]

I don't know exactly what you're doing but I'm using these numbers:

Tony Parker: $12,500,000
Tim Duncan: $10,361,446
Boris Diaw: $4,702,500
Danny Green: $3,762,500
Nando De Colo: $1,463,000
Kawhi Leonard: $1,887,840
Patrick Mills: $1,133,950
Cory Joseph: $1,120,920
Aron Baynes: $788,872
Splitter cap hold: $7,493,600
Ginobili starting salary of his new contract: $6,000,000
Roster cap hold: $490,180

Total: $51,704,808

So, with a $62M cap space, it's $10.3M of space. $8.3M with a $60M.

And it's assuming Spurs amnesty Bonner and stash or trade their first round pick.

[MaNu4Tres]

The logical order to sign players for Spurs this summer would be Manu first, cap space free agent second and Splitter third.

Diaw could be of course included in a sign and trade but the other team would have to accept taking him. What could help Spurs is that the team minimum salary will now 90% of the cap. A team like Utah, with only $26M of salaries committed in 2013-2014 will have no financial interest to have a payroll below about $55M. Diaw might be basically free for them.

Another option with Diaw would be to waive him and sue the stretch provision. His $4.7M salary will be spread in 3 years ($1.57M per year). If you count the additional roster hold of $0.49M, waiving him with the stretch provision would create an additional $2.64M of cap space. The drawback of that move would be that you lower both your 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 capspace by $1.57M.

Business is business, whether he's TP's best friend or not. I think and hope Spurs best interests would be to part ways with him one way or another after this year.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't know exactly what you're doing but I'm using these numbers:

Tony Parker: $12,500,000
Tim Duncan: $10,361,446
Boris Diaw: $4,702,500
Danny Green: $3,762,500
Nando De Colo: $1,463,000
Kawhi Leonard: $1,887,840
Patrick Mills: $1,133,950
Cory Joseph: $1,120,920
Aron Baynes: $788,872
Splitter cap hold: $7,493,600
Ginobili starting salary of his new contract: $6,000,000
Roster cap hold: $490,180

Total: $51,704,808

So, with a $62M cap space, it's $10.3M of space. $8.3M with a $60M.

And it's assuming Spurs amnesty Bonner and stash or trade their first round pick.

Hypothetically, 8.3M (cap at 60M) + Diaw's 4.7 mil in sign and trade = 13 million in cap space for free agents this off-season (so Josh Smith could be a realistic target).

[Bruno]

Business is business, whether he's TP's best friend or not. I think and hope Spurs best interests would be to part ways with him one way or another after this year.

I'm not saying the opposite but including Diaw in a sign and trade isn't that easy. The big issue is that the other team has to be fine with taking him and his salary.

It takes two (or more) to make a trade.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm not saying the opposite but including Diaw in a sign and trade isn't that easy. The big issue is that the other team has to be fine with taking him and his salary.

It takes two (or more) to make a trade.

Fully aware of that. But since it's only a 1 year expiring contract, it will be a lot easier for a team to accept than it normally is in sign and trades because of the length of the contract.

[Pop]

Business is business, whether he's TP's best friend or not. I think and hope Spurs best interests would be to part ways with him one way or another after this year.

Yeah because there's a lot of third bigs better than him on contenders...

He's the best passing PF in the nba and great for the money.

Green is the one who needs to be traded.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yeah because there's a lot of third bigs better than him on contenders...

He's the best passing PF in the nba and great for the money.

Green is the one who needs to be traded.

Disagree. He's not the best passing PF in the NBA. I do think he makes the most unwarranted passes out of any PF in the league though. Most of the time when he does pass the ball, it's the wrong play because sometimes he just passes just to pass because he's so damn passive (which leads to rushed shots for his teammates due to potential shot clock violations). Most pass happy player in the league, tbh. Sometimes being too passive at passing negates true passing ability, tbh. That's just on offense. On defense, Diaw is the worst out of any big on the Spurs by far and it's not close.

As for Green, you can't find a more valuable role player for the price (not including players on rookie deals). For 3.5 M, he's well worth the money.

[Pop]

Disagree. He's not the best passing PF in the NBA. I do think he makes the most unwarranted passes out of any PF in the league though. Most of the time when he does pass the ball it's the wrong play because sometimes he just passes just to pass because he's so damn passive. Most pass happy player in the league, tbh. Sometimes being too passive negates true passing ability, tbh. That's just on offense.

On defense, Diaw is the worst out of any big on the Spurs by far and it's not close.

As for Green, you can't find a more valuable role player for the price (not including players on rookie deals). For 3 million he's well worth the money.

He owned Millsap himself and held his own vs Griffin last year, and last time I checked but that was a while ago he had a better assist to TOs ratio than Manu. The offense already looks like shit since he got moved to the bench and with Manu's decline, the last thing we need imo is getting rid of more playmakers in favors of specialists.

Green is good for the money, which is why he's a nice trade bait, but we saw him last year in the WCF and we see him going 5/30 every now and then, basically he's almost garanteed to go cold a full series and we have other 40% 3 points shooters who can pass the ball and make layups like De Colo (who is even cheaper).

[Pop]

On defense, Diaw is the worst out of any big on the Spurs by far and it's not close.

The only big that torched Boris is Ibaka and he also epicly torched Tiago earlier this year. Basically it was all about Pop's defensive scheme. He's the worst rebounder tho.

[Chinook]

I don't know exactly what you're doing but I'm using these numbers:

Tony Parker: $12,500,000
Tim Duncan: $10,361,446
Boris Diaw: $4,702,500
Danny Green: $3,762,500
Nando De Colo: $1,463,000
Kawhi Leonard: $1,887,840
Patrick Mills: $1,133,950
Cory Joseph: $1,120,920
Aron Baynes: $788,872
Splitter cap hold: $7,493,600
Ginobili starting salary of his new contract: $6,000,000
Roster cap hold: $490,180

Total: $51,704,808

So, with a $62M cap space, it's $10.3M of space. $8.3M with a $60M.

And it's assuming Spurs amnesty Bonner and stash or trade their first round pick.

Yes, but the Spurs can use that roster charge as part of Milsap's deal. So I thought they can give him $10.8 (or $8.8) in your scenario. Just like you're taking away the roster charges when including a deal for Ginobili and Splitter's hold.

[Chinook]

He owned Millsap himself and held his own vs Griffin last year, and last time I checked but that was a while ago he had a better assist to TOs ratio than Manu. The offense already looks like shit since he got moved to the bench and with Manu's decline, the last thing we need imo is getting rid of more playmakers in favors of specialists.

Green is good for the money, which is why he's a nice trade bait, but we saw him last year in the WCF and we see him going 5/30 every no and then, basically he's almost garanteed to go cold a full series and we have other 40% 3 points shooters who can pass the ball and make layups like De Colo (who is even cheaper).

I don't know if you saw Green's playoff stats when I posted them in another thread. He didn't actually play that poorly (quantitatively) in the first four games of the OKC series. He still had a much better plus-minus that other players who "stepped up" or "were hot" like Jack. He shot poorly, but he still went for 9 points, 5 rebs, 3 ast, 1 stl and 1 blk per 36. Those numbers weren't nearly as good as those in the Clippers series, but everyone on the team has had a four-game streak that poor at some point recently. It seems to me that Pop panicked when he took Green out of the rotation, which ruined his confidence for the eight total minutes he played in the final two games. It was much more likely that Green would have started streaking the right way than it was that anyone else was going to step up into Green's role.

[Pop]

I don't know if you saw Green's playoff stats when I posted them in another thread. He didn't actually play that poorly (quantitatively) in the first four games of the OKC series. He still had a much better plus-minus that other players who "stepped up" or "were hot" like Jack. He shot poorly, but he still went for 9 points, 5 rebs, 3 ast, 1 stl and 1 blk per 36. Those numbers weren't nearly as good as those in the Clippers series, but everyone on the team has had a four-game streak that poor at some point recently. It seems to me that Pop panicked when he took Green out of the rotation, which ruined his confidence for the eight total minutes he played in the final two games. It was much more likely that Green would have started streaking the right way than it was that anyone else was going to step up into Green's role.

I don't really disagree with you on that tbh, he was not unbelievably bad and maybe sticking with him would have been better indeed. But I feel like we could use more playmaking with the offense being so poor this year. I made that point a while ago when we were still looking great about the lack of secondary playmakers when TP gets traped and now I can't help but come back to it because of what I see on the offensive end. I believe Green is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and I feel like he really has been playing better defense lately but I'm not sure about the starting five as a unit.

[Pop]

And maybe the offseason will come down to Boris vs Danny, since Tiago Boris is not a very good combination, if they go for a PF then Boris' role become a real question mark unless he slides down to SF, the new PF would take his place in the 3 bigs rotation.


And if they decides to pay a guard because of Manu's decline and move Green instead, they are more likely to only get fourth big through draft/FA or even stick with Baynes.

[Chinook]

I don't really disagree with you on that tbh, he was not unbelievably bad and maybe sticking with him would have been better indeed. But I feel like we could use more playmaking with the offense being so poor this year. I made that point a while ago when we were still looking great about the lack of secondary playmakers when TP gets traped and now I can't help but come back to it because of what I see on the offensive end. I believe Green is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and I feel like he really has been playing better defense lately but I'm not sure about the starting five as a unit.

I can agree with you on that part. I feel the same way, only with Splitter instead of Green. As I said in the Neal thread, I hope this off-season leads to a change in the way the Spurs' brass thinks about the rotation. I think Splitter going to the bench and bringing in a versatile power-forward would be a better move. You worry about the lack of play-makers outside of Parker, but I think that can be fixed by bringing in a post player. That way, the offense is less dependent on Parker's penetration, which should prevent teams from keying on him as much. If Duncan is pretty much going to be a spot-up shooter now then Splitter's limitations are more obvious.

If Al Jefferson had quicker feet, he'd be ideal, but really I think that any big that can be successful in iso situations could really help the team. I don't feel the same way about getting a high-usage guard to pair with Parker. I'd rather Pop put the ball in Kawhi's hands more and use him as a ball-handler than remove Green. Green's spacing allows for everyone else to have the room they need to work. If Leonard improves as much as we all think he can, he's going to need Green's spacing as much as anyone, as the defense tends to leave him open enough to drive because they're skewed to the other side.

[Richie]

Bruno you reminded me of the stretch provision, if we waive Bonner (and his $1m guaranteed), can we use it on him? That would make his cap hit this year an almost negligible $333k and save us having to amnesty him.

[Richie]

Disagree. He's not the best passing PF in the NBA. I do think he makes the most unwarranted passes out of any PF in the league though. Most of the time when he does pass the ball, it's the wrong play because sometimes he just passes just to pass because he's so damn passive (which leads to rushed shots for his teammates due to potential shot clock violations). Most pass happy player in the league, tbh. Sometimes being too passive at passing negates true passing ability, tbh. That's just on offense. On defense, Diaw is the worst out of any big on the Spurs by far and it's not close.

As for Green, you can't find a more valuable role player for the price (not including players on rookie deals). For 3.5 M, he's well worth the money.

I agree with you about his passivity but c'mon, Diaw is a better defender than Blair, at least as good as Bonner and it's too soon to judge Baynes.

[Chinook]

Bruno (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449) you reminded me of the stretch provision, if we waive Bonner (and his $1m guaranteed), can we use it on him? That would make his cap hit this year an almost negligible $333k and save us having to amnesty him.

Teams can only use the stretch provision on players who signed contracts after the current CBA took effect. Bonner signed the year before.

[Redshadows]

It will depends on how much money Ginobili and Millsap will cost and the level of the cap. Splitter isn't really part of the equation since you can sign him last for whatever amount you want.

To make it simple, with a cap of $62M, Spurs will have $16.3M to split between Ginobili and Millsap. If Ginobili is fine with $6M per years, Spurs could offer Millsap a contract starting at $10.3M.
So, resigning unrestricted player would not be limited by cap space?

[Richie]

Could you imagine Millsap getting the kind of open looks that Diaw passes up every game? He'd get 15ppg easy

[Bruno]

Yes, but the Spurs can use that roster charge as part of Milsap's deal. So I thought they can give him $10.8 (or $8.8) in your scenario. Just like you're taking away the roster charges when including a deal for Ginobili and Splitter's hold.

You can't count a roster charge for a player you will sign. Larry Coon explained it well in his FAQ:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q14

Since teams are required to have at least 13 players on their rosters, the roster charge reserves a minimum amount of cap space to sign 13 players. For example, if a team has 11 players on its roster, the roster charge reserves cap space to sign the team's 13th player, and the remainder can be used to sign the 12th player.

The way to work with this roster charge would be a sign & trade. For trades, the rule is:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q80

Teams under the salary cap may make trades as they please, as long as they don't finish more than $100,000 above the salary cap following any trade.
In that case the roster charge will disappear and so Spurs could gave Millsap an extra $590K compared to a classic free agent signing.

[Chinook]

All right. Thanks a lot for the clarification. My mistake was thinking that the minimum roster size was 12 and not 13.

I know the trade rules, but I hadn't considered them as a means to bypass roster charges. That would also be interesting.

Also, that extra roster charge I wasn't considering makes Neal more worth while to keep, since his hold is really only 610k or so after factoring in the roster charge. Or the hold for the Spurs' first-rounder shouldn't be that bad.

[Bruno]

Also, that extra roster charge I wasn't considering makes Neal more worth while to keep, since his hold is really only 610k or so after factoring in the roster charge.

Neal could even eat less cap space ($294K) if Spurs don't make a QO and just keep his bird rights. It would be a riskier move since Neal would be an UFA.

The question with Neal isn't really whether or not it makes sense to keep him financially wise, it's if it makes sense basketball wise.

[Chinook]

Neal could even eat less cap space ($294K) if Spurs don't make a QO and just keep his bird rights. It would be a riskier move since Neal would be an UFA.

The question with Neal isn't really whether or not it makes sense to keep him financially wise, it's if it makes sense basketball wise.

That's why I like the idea of giving him the qualifying offer. They can let the market decide how much he's worth while seeing what else is going on with their roster. It's possible someone like Redick is going to be their big free-agent target (hopefully not). If he is, then having Neal in their back pocket wouldn't be the worst thing ever. If they don't want him, they can always decide to not match whatever offer he gets. I think there's very little upside to keep their options open for that little money.

[Bruno]

That's why I like the idea of giving him the qualifying offer.

And I don't like it.

I just think Spurs are fine at the guards spots for next year with Parker, Green, Ginobili, Joseph and De Colo. I just have no interest in adding Neal or another good guard to these 5 players.

[Chinook]

And I don't like it.

I just think Spurs are fine at the guards spots for next year with Parker, Green, Ginobili, Joseph and De Colo. I just have no interest in adding Neal or another good guard to these 5 players.

I can understand that. But I don't know if the Spurs can really count on Ginobili anymore. Honestly, unless he comes back strong in the playoffs, the Spurs pretty much have to start preparing as if they're playing without him. I'd like to see them pick up a score-first guard, even if it's a player in the draft who's going to sit on bench for a couple of years. Marcus Denmon would have been an interesting prospect had he not gotten injured.

[TheGoldStandard]

I can understand that. But I don't know if the Spurs can really count on Ginobili anymore. Honestly, unless he comes back strong in the playoffs, the Spurs pretty much have to start preparing as if they're playing without him. I'd like to see them pick up a score-first guard, even if it's a player in the draft who's going to sit on bench for a couple of years. Marcus Denmon would have been an interesting prospect had he not gotten injured.

That's all the spurs have been doing for quite some time, they draft or find SG who Pop tries to convert to PG's but they're undersized and lack speed. Spurs need a PG that can actually create in the paint, great first step, plays defense and can dish the ball to help the perimeter for the second team.

[Chinook]

That's all the spurs have been doing for quite some time, they draft or find SG who Pop tries to convert to PG's but they're undersized and lack speed. Spurs need a PG that can actually create in the paint, great first step, plays defense and can dish the ball to help the perimeter for the second team.

That's pretty much the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying that the Spurs need a score-first guard to replace Ginobili, not to go along with him. Pop has been trying to find a shooting-guard to play next to Manu because he wanted Ginobili to be the main ball-handler in the second unit. Those days are over, which is why De Colo and Joseph should get the nod at the one over a player like Neal. However, I don't trust Ginobili's health anymore, so I don't think it's wise to consider the two-guard position set. I'd like to see a deep-bench player who can fill it up like Neal. I used Denmon because he's in the pipeline right now.

I think the Spurs need to remake their bench to where Ginobili is not the main focus of the unit. The main part of that is spending money to bring in a big man to play with the reserves and/or push Splitter back to the bench. Another part of it is getting a versatile small-forward with upside to back up Leonard. The final piece of it is to have a guard who can score in Ginobili's absence. The loser out of the De Colo/Joseph point battle may be that guy, and indeed, I think they could be a good tandem. But it wouldn't hurt to have some instant offense on the bench.

I'm looking for a lineup like this:

Starters: Parker, Green, Leonard, Millsap, Duncan

Bench: De Colo-Joseph winner, Ginobili, Wes Johnson/other room-exception wing, Diaw, Splitter

Reserves: Instant-offense guard, De Colo/Joseph loser, Baynes, draft pick big man or combo-forward

I think that team is more balanced than the one we see today.

[TheGoldStandard]

That's pretty much the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying that the Spurs need a score-first guard to replace Ginobili, not to go along with him. Pop has been trying to find a shooting-guard to play next to Manu because he wanted Ginobili to be the main ball-handler in the second unit. Those days are over, which is why De Colo and Joseph should get the nod at the one over a player like Neal. However, I don't trust Ginobili's health anymore, so I don't think it's wise to consider the two-guard position set. I'd like to see a deep-bench player who can fill it up like Neal. I used Denmon because he's in the pipeline right now.

I think the Spurs need to remake their bench to where Ginobili is not the main focus of the unit. The main part of that is spending money to bring in a big man to play with the reserves and/or push Splitter back to the bench. Another part of it is getting a versatile small-forward with upside to back up Leonard. The final piece of it is to have a guard who can score in Ginobili's absence. The loser out of the De Colo/Joseph point battle may be that guy, and indeed, I think they could be a good tandem. But it wouldn't hurt to have some instant offense on the bench.

I'm looking for a lineup like this:

Starters: Parker, Green, Leonard, Millsap, Duncan

Bench: De Colo-Joseph winner, Ginobili, Wes Johnson/other room-exception wing, Diaw, Splitter

Reserves: Instant-offense guard, De Colo/Joseph loser, Baynes, draft pick big man or combo-forward

I think that team is more balanced than the one we see today.

I agree with having a vet big come in who will take a pay cut to play, I would love to have Al Jefferson, the guy works hard and can hit a jump shot, pound the ball and rebound same with milsap. the de colo/joseph deal needs to get resolved in the offseason way too much by committee this year. Gino is done in my opinion so yes we need to go elsewhere with the bench and wes Johnson would be nice, there are a few options open during the off season, lots of people trying to dump salary space.. It may sound stupid but heck even give Gilbert Arenas a call, lol. Someone who isn't afraid to score, push the envelope and score and who could catch fire.

We're in a position where nobody looks to score outside of gary neal because he's not only playing for today but he's playing for a contract so he'll just jack it up. When he's controlled its good stuff but it gets out of hand so yeah I agree with your statements.

[Chinook]

I agree with having a vet big come in who will take a pay cut to play, I would love to have Al Jefferson, the guy works hard and can hit a jump shot, pound the ball and rebound same with milsap. the de colo/joseph deal needs to get resolved in the offseason way too much by committee this year. Gino is done in my opinion so yes we need to go elsewhere with the bench and wes Johnson would be nice, there are a few options open during the off season, lots of people trying to dump salary space.. It may sound stupid but heck even give Gilbert Arenas a call, lol. Someone who isn't afraid to score, push the envelope and score and who could catch fire.

We're in a position where nobody looks to score outside of gary neal because he's not only playing for today but he's playing for a contract so he'll just jack it up. When he's controlled its good stuff but it gets out of hand so yeah I agree with your statements.

Yes, pretty much. The Spurs bench is broken right now. Jack and Ginobili are failing, and there isn't a legitmate bench big outside of Diaw forty percent of the time. An Al Jefferson-type big would be nice, because he can do his thing on offense in iso situations, which takes a lot of pressure off the guards. If Jefferson emphasized kicking out to open shooters, then I could see the bench returning to its glory days. But Al himself just doesn't seem mobile enough to play with Duncan or Splitter. His role would be too limited to warrant the money he'd command.

That's why I suggested a big like Millsap, who can score well enough to replace Splitter in the starting unit and allow Tiago to return to the bench and give De Colo, Joseph and Ginobili a great PnR partner. A shooting wing could be a great complimentary piece, while a score-first guard should still be able to get plenty of touches.

[TheGoldStandard]

Millsap would be a good get and I would still be okay with Al Jefferson just because I think Jefferson has the better overall game, Chris Kaman won't stay with Dallas and he has flashes of good interior play. I think Tyreke Evans might be a good fit, seems like he could be a natural scorer at the guard position catching and shooting rather than trying to run the offense.

[CGD]

We talk a lot about getting a big with the cap money this summer, but realistically what UFA is out there that the Spurs could get? Btw, I start with the premise that I think most would agree with: Smith (or Howard) aren't coming here. I'm also assuming Tiago re-ups here. I truly see the Splitt/Duncan frontline up working quite well for the next two years. If we're really talking signing a big man, that really means bench player or someone to groom following Duncan's departure (and who is willing to be groomed at a discount). Here is the crop of PF/C that will command decent $$ this summer:

David West (doubt he leaves a good situation w/Pacers to come to the more competitive western conference)
Paul Millsap (would like it, but you have to think a team is going to offer him a starting gig. If not, do you commit big $$ to a bench player? Maybe)
Elton Brand (walking injury, low motor, questionable D, pass)
Al Jefferson (Big fan, but again see Milsap above)
Chris Kaman (Has been linked to the Spurs before, and may come cheap(er); a bit long on in the tooth though)
Nikola Pekovic (though RFA, if we lose Splitter could be someone Spurs try to out bid for. Doubtful in any event).

The above players would be great, but would likely find better situations else where. Maybe Kaman, and to a lesser extent Millsap may be willing to accept the bench roles. If Spurs really want a project big they can find one in this draft which projects to be good at precisely that position.

I've changed perspectives on who to target this summer. Manu's health is worrisome, and I wonder if it doesn't make sense to sign a player on the wings. With cap space, I'm a big proponent of throwing money at "fallen stars" who are in need of rehabbing their careers. T. Evan, N. Young, D. William, O. Casspi (though obviously not in the same talent class) would be interesting picks this summer.

[objective]

I'm not on board with getting Milsapp.

Even Jazz media and fans have subtly soured on Milsapp. Listening to Jazz watchers, it sounds like his play for the first season ever has plateaued or gotten worse, despite his nice looking PER. He routinely loses match-ups against west PFs, usually badly. Even the Jazz pbp radio guy has talked with some reservation about how he's been eaten alive by Faried in every Jazz-Nuggets game, by Lee, by Ibaka . . . just troubling stuff.

Maybe it's just free agency-to-be fatigue from a player who signed an offer sheet to leave Utah before, and then this past summer turned down an extension from Utah (they offered the most they were allowed by the CBA). But he's had a big role to play in Utah's collapse.

So I don't like what I see when I watch him and think about what he'd be on the Spurs.

[objective]

David West (doubt he leaves a good situation w/Pacers to come to the more competitive western conference)

David West is a mercenary. He's only about money and will sign with whoever pays him the most, which is why he turned down going to a contending Boston to get a little extra from a mediocre-at-the-time Pacers team.

West would be good.

[objective]

Milsap finished the year terribly.

Last 5 games: 39.6% fg (19-for-48), 8.4 points and 6.2 rebounds in 31 mpg. Plus he's been criticized for his defense.

No thanks.

[Bruno]

^

yeah, I definitely agree with you that Millsap isn't that good. I put him in the same category than players like Scola, Gooden or Lee. These are skilled undersized PF that put great numbers but at the end these are kind of empty stats that don't really help teams to win games. These players also don't age well.

I will only signed if he cheap and if Spurs can't get a better player through FA because either they don't have the cap space to get one or none wants to join them. A Millsap at $8M per year is fine with me and it might allow Spurs to have a little cap space left to do other moves like keeping Neal and/or their first round pick or front-loaded some contracts.

[TD 21]

^

yeah, I definitely agree with you that Millsap isn't that good. I put him in the same category than players like Scola, Gooden or Lee. These are skilled undersized PF that put great numbers but at the end these are kind of empty stats that don't really help teams to win games. These players also don't age well.

I will only signed if he cheap and if Spurs can't get a better player through FA because either they don't have the cap space to get one or none wants to join them. A Millsap at $8M per year is fine with me and it might allow Spurs to have a little cap space left to do other moves like keeping Neal and/or their first round pick or front-loaded some contracts.

Don't disagree, but forgetting ideals for a minute and just looking at it logically: With the amount they figure to have to spend, their need at PF and the urgency to win now, does it really matter if he's making in the $10M range? Even if he's declined by a fair bit in the back half of it, chances are it's still not going to matter because the only other players making a significant amount will probably be Parker, Leonard and Splitter.

And what's this about "keeping Neal"; I thought you wanted him gone? Clearly, they need an SF who's serviceable enough to step into the rotation if need be and if they could get D. Wright, I'd be all for it. But if it's between Casspi and Neal, I'd rather keep Neal (really, both would be ideal, but I doubt Casspi would sign to not be in the rotation and signing both would make it more difficult to sign Millsap), because he's Ginobili and Joseph/De Colo insurance.

[Bruno]

With the amount they figure to have to spend, their need at PF and the urgency to win now, does it really matter if he's making in the $10M range? Even if he's declined by a fair bit in the back half of it, chances are it's still not going to matter because the only other players making a significant amount will probably be Parker, Leonard and Splitter.

If Spurs want to rebuild as quickly as possible around Parker/Leonard/Splitter, they will need as much cap space as possible. And I'm never been a fan of the "hurt the future to help the present" approach. It's even more the case than I think Spurs are quite far from winning a title because of the Heat and that I don't see at all Millsap as some kind of difference maker.



And what's this about "keeping Neal"; I thought you wanted him gone?

I wanted and I still want. Only a great playoffs campaign form him could change that.
I was talking about keeping Neal for the people who wants to keep him.

[Richie]

Without the big city draw, I don't see us being able to rebuild around Parker after Duncan retires. A 32 year old Parker along with Splitter and Kawhi wouldn't stand a chance against OKC for example

We will almost certainly need to rebuild through the draft. Spurs will need to get worse before getting better.

[TD 21]

If Spurs want to rebuild as quickly as possible around Parker/Leonard/Splitter, they will need as much cap space as possible. And I'm never been a fan of the "hurt the future to help the present" approach. It's even more the case than I think Spurs are quite far from winning a title because of the Heat and that I don't see at all Millsap as some kind of difference maker.

I don't see how they'd be hurting their future. Let's be honest, if they couldn't attract an A-list free agent in Duncan's prime, then there's no chance they will with a late/slightly past prime Parker, Leonard and Splitter. That being the case, creating max cap space shouldn't supersede increasing the chances (even if ever so slightly) of winning one more championship.

And no matter how far fetched a title may appear to be, it is so difficult to have even a sliver of a chance in this league (particularly in a market like this), that you should absolutely go all in in pursuit of it.



I wanted and I still want. Only a great playoffs campaign form him could change that.
I was talking about keeping Neal for the people who wants to keep him.

Even if he maintains the role he's in now, as the fourth wing, playing limited minutes? I'm as big a proponent for size at all positions as you'll find, but I don't see how Casspi makes more sense than him, not with Ginobili's lack of durability and the lack of a proven backup PG.

[exstatic]

I don't see how they'd be hurting their future. Let's be honest, if they couldn't attract an A-list free agent in Duncan's prime, then there's no chance they will with a late/slightly past prime Parker, Leonard and Splitter. That being the case, creating max cap space shouldn't supersede increasing the chances (even if ever so slightly) of winning one more championship.

And no matter how far fetched a title may appear to be, it is so difficult to have even a sliver of a chance in this league (particularly in a market like this), that you should absolutely go all in in pursuit of it.



Even if he maintains the role he's in now, as the fourth wing, playing limited minutes? I'm as big a proponent for size at all positions as you'll find, but I don't see how Casspi makes more sense than him, not with Ginobili's lack of durability and the lack of a proven backup PG.

Cap space doesn't ONLY have to be used for FAs. OKC did a great job of leveraging theirs into draft picks/players taken in exchange for cap/tax relief for other teams while they were building. This is even MORE important with the stricter tax rules coming into effect this summer. OKC got the pick for Ibaka, PG Eric Maynor, and SG DaQuan Cook this way.

[Chinook]

Cap space doesn't ONLY have to be used for FAs. OKC did a great job of leveraging theirs into draft picks/players taken in exchange for cap/tax relief for other teams while they were building. This is even MORE important with the stricter tax rules coming into effect this summer. OKC got the pick for Ibaka, PG Eric Maynor, and SG DaQuan Cook this way.

Yes indeed. That is definitely the way the Spurs have to go when it's time to rebuild. Unless they can get a really good pick for their space this off-season, though, it makes more sense.

Also, the Thunder/Supersonics acquired Cook and the pick for Eric Bledsoe from the Heat for cap space. They acquired Maynor in his sophomore year from the Jazz for what I assume was indeed cap relief. The Thunder got the Ibaka pick (along with the pick they used on Quincy Pondexter) from Phoenix in exchange to taking Kurt Thomas, whom they turned around and traded to the Spurs for the pick they used on Beaubois. That was some fine angling right there.

[TD 21]

Cap space doesn't ONLY have to be used for FAs. OKC did a great job of leveraging theirs into draft picks/players taken in exchange for cap/tax relief for other teams while they were building. This is even MORE important with the stricter tax rules coming into effect this summer. OKC got the pick for Ibaka, PG Eric Maynor, and SG DaQuan Cook this way.

Like I said, even with Millsap, the Spurs should still have at least a decent amount of cap space in two years time and definitely enough to make the types of moves you alluded to.

[Mal]

Personally, I`m not a fan of signing Paul Millsap. As it was mentioned above, he wont help Spurs beat Miami. With or without him, Spurs have really thin chances against LeBron and co. I would go after guys like Gerald Henderson, Timofey Mozgov and Emeka Okafor (I do believe he has early termation and couldnt find reason for Wizard to keep him for 14mln). They should be going to be cheaper than Millsap and vets like Dunleavy, Korver etc for same roster spots and they could`ve better impact next year and future.

Or simply go all in, and try to land Al Jefferson, who is going to be the best player in this year free agency.

[Richie]

People are saying Millsap won't help us beat Miami, I have to say I disagree.

First of all, he could cover a lot of Timmys minutes during the season to keep him fresher for the playoffs.

Second, the main point against Miami is about keeping 2 big men on the court. If we can do that then he would be a high upgrade over Diaw. If we can't, we might as well not re sign Splitter and just play with Duncan in the playoffs and throw everything at Josh Smith and go small.

[TD 21]

People are saying Millsap won't help us beat Miami, I have to say I disagree.

First of all, he could cover a lot of Timmys minutes during the season to keep him fresher for the playoffs.

Second, the main point against Miami is about keeping 2 big men on the court. If we can do that then he would be a high upgrade over Diaw. If we can't, we might as well not re sign Splitter and just play with Duncan in the playoffs and throw everything at Josh Smith and go small.

Exactly. It may take a transcendent, in their prime player, to beat the Heat, but obviously that's not realistic. So the next best thing is to stock the team with as many good players as possible, who fit together and who can work against them. He fits the bill on all counts.

You think of their best/closing five, with the big three, Chalmers/Allen and Battier. They would have serious difficulty holding their own on the glass against Duncan and Millsap, plus they'd have to defend five guys who can all get their own and all make a jump shot. Millsap may be just okay as a rebounder and James can easily defend him in the post (Battier less so, but they could get away with for stretches), but in tandem with Duncan, their lineup would have difficulty holding their own on the glass and if James has to defend him, then he can't slide over to Parker, Ginobili or Leonard (obviously, he'd only be an option if he takes a significant step forward next season), if they're going off.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

With Splitter laying an egg, how do you guys think Millsap would fit if the Spurs were to make the switch?

[TrainOfThought5]

Thomas Robinson is cheaper and Pau Gasol is better value for the money.

[Richie]

With Splitter laying an egg, how do you guys think Millsap would fit if the Spurs were to make the switch?

I wouldn't take Millsap over Splitter, and we won't have the cap room to get both. Unless Manu takes the Room Exception, we won't get a quality player in free agency this year.

[Mr Bones]

I put Millsap and Al Jefferson in the same boat as decent players who can demand more money than they're worth because they put up good offensive numbers. The Spurs have have managed to assemble a bunch of long young defenders in Leonard, Green, and Splitter who actually like to play defense... I'd hate to see them mess with that by signing an overpriced, slightly undersized PF.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

What are our realistic chances of picking this guy up?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Some predicting the Spurs to pick him up:



Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images
Paul Millsap is an unheralded, undersized power forward that brings a lot to the table and doesn’t take much off.
While he’s not going to score 50 points or grab 30 rebounds, the seven-year veteran brings his lunch pail and blue collar work ethic every time he steps onto the court.
He’s an extremely efficient player that is capable of defending effectively despite his height limitations, has range out to the three-point line to draw defenders and does all the little things to help the Utah Jazz win.
For those reasons, we think he’d be a perfect acquisition for the aging San Antonio Spurs, who could use another big man to compliment the frontcourt rotation.
If Millsap is able to log 30 minutes a night, San Antonio will be fresher for the playoffs and have a better chance of succeeding after the regular-season grind.


Prediction: San Antonio Spurs

[TheGoldStandard]

What are our realistic chances of picking this guy up?

Chances of getting Millsap 40%..

[Nbadan]

If Spurs have around $10M in cap space after resigning Manu, Millsap would be my primary FA target.

Millsap would be a decent signing, but I think POP values Iggy more over Millsap...

[jesterbobman]

Suspiciously quiet. #Dogprayer.GIF

[CGD]

Nah, he's down the list of bigmen. His situation will be determined when those of Howard, Jefferson, and Bynum are settled. And even then teams may wait and see what happens with Splitter, Asik, Pekovic. He's good, but those other guys are either better or taller.

[DesignatedT]

353345804502700035

[elemento]

I wonder the value. I will be pissed if it's a below market value

[DesignatedT]

2 years 19M

[CGD]

Make sense, though a Milsap Hortford front court is a big undersized.

[Drom John]

I wonder the value. I will be pissed if it's a below market value
Paul Milsap was 30th in WS last year.
The 30th highest salary was $13,305,000 (Luol Deng).

$13,305,000 > $9,500, 000

CGD, expect to add Asik into the Hawks front court.

[dbestpro]

Make sense, though a Milsap Hortford front court is a big undersized.

One of the reasons they want Josh Smith to move on is to play Hortford at his natural position , which is PF. Milsap will play SF. Look for Atlanta to still make a play for a center. Asik looks good in a sign and trade.

[blkroadrunners]

A rotational lineup of Asik/Millsap/Horford would be tough to beat.

[gambit1990]

future spur.

[Josh2120]

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