Morey Is a Good GM? No.

[sook]

I've said this many times and people always give me shit but its about time I put it out there. The guy is mediocre at best. Has he pulled some amazing moves? Yea he has. The Harden trade was killer.

That being said, the guy has had 4 years in the rebuilding process, coming out with one star is the least you can expect. Wait...but ...but he only got 14th pick everytime!...Who THE FUCK cares. If you don't want the 14th pick then you send the organization in the direction of obtaining a higher pick, every team has to do it.

The guy doesn't get it, I was fed up with him right after firing Adelman which to be fair to him had a lot to do with the owner Les.

Pros:

Been good at picking the diamonds in the rough like Chandlar Parsons and Chase Buddinger

Cons:

Doesn't understand the game of basketball beyond analytics. You don't trade BOTH your 4s for a team trying to make the playoffs.

Argument people may present.."Oh but the organization is looking further than the playoffs and developing blah blah blah." Well if thats the case then they need to have a different direction and actually obtain a good pick and plan accordingly. Rockets fans overrate and worship this guy like no other. Everytime I'll bring something up I get baraged with the Harden trade which I'll admit is great.

And if anyone tries to put Landry/brooks/scola in there..

Landry: CD (previous GM had scouted him)

Brooks: Adelman watched him play in college and asked for it

Scola: CD

[Thread]

^He's allowed a lot of talent to go thru Houston like shit thru a Christmas goose.

[Killakobe81]

I've said this many times and people always give me shit but its about time I put it out there. The guy is mediocre at best. Has he pulled some amazing moves? Yea he has. The Harden trade was killer.

That being said, the guy has had 4 years in the rebuilding process, coming out with one star is the least you can expect. Wait...but ...but he only got 14th pick everytime!...Who THE FUCK cares. If you don't want the 14th pick then you send the organization in the direction of obtaining a higher pick, every team has to do it.

The guy doesn't get it, I was fed up with him right after firing Adelman which to be fair to him had a lot to do with the owner Les.

Pros:

Been good at picking the diamonds in the rough like Chandlar Parsons and Chase Buddinger

Cons:

Doesn't understand the game of basketball beyond analytics. You don't trade BOTH your 4s for a team trying to make the playoffs.

Argument people may present.."Oh but the organization is looking further than the playoffs and developing blah blah blah." Well if thats the case then they need to have a different direction and actually obtain a good pick and plan accordingly. Rockets fans overrate and worship this guy like no other. Everytime I'll bring something up I get baraged with the Harden trade which I'll admit is great.

And if anyone tries to put Landry/brooks/scola in there..

Landry: CD (previous GM had scouted him)

Brooks: Adelman watched him play in college and asked for it

Scola: CD

The Simmons and Abbotts of the world suck on Morey's... Cock cuz he validates teh analytic crowd

[JoeTait75]

He's the Billy Beane of hoops- gets lionized by the advanced-stat dorks who care more about the method than about the actual results.

[Killakobe81]

He's the Billy Beane of hoops- gets lionized by the advanced-stat dorks who care more about the method than about the actual results.

great analogy. Not against advanced stats ... but just feel like it's overblown. Advanced stats says Lebron is one of the all-time greats ... my eyes does the same. If advanced stats tell me he is greater than Wilt, ... cant say never saw the man play. They tell me right now he is better than MJ or Kareem? I call bull-shit.

But again I maintain he has the potential to pass them some day ...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

He's the Billy Beane of hoops- gets lionized by the advanced-stat dorks who care more about the method than about the actual results.
That comparison isn't really fair to Beane :lol

[spurraider21]

You brush off the the fact that he had crappy draft slots, then say "its expected to get at least one superstar." I think he's done pretty well. For a team that had spent years trying to build around Yao only to see him end his career that way, I'm sure it was rough to deal with the rebuilding process when you have a roster meant to contend, but missing a star. He spent recent years clearing up cap space to make the moves he has made. Asik, Lin were gambles that appeared to have worked. They traded two 4's for Robinson (most potential of any of those guys traded) plus it opened up minutes for D-Mo, another 4. They had an excess of scrub power forwards they had to get rid of, and did well for themselves. They are also in position to pick up Dwight via sign and trade with Asik.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

great analogy. Not against advanced stats ... but just feel like it's overblown. Advanced stats says Lebron is one of the all-time greats ... my eyes does the same. If advanced stats tell me he is greater than Wilt, ... cant say never saw the man play. They tell me right now he is better than MJ or Kareem? I call bull-shit.

But again I maintain he has the potential to pass them some day ...
Just curious, what advanced stats tell you Lebron is better than MJ?

[sook]

You brush off the the fact that he had crappy draft slots, then say "its expected to get at least one superstar." I think he's done pretty well. For a team that had spent years trying to build around Yao only to see him end his career that way, I'm sure it was rough to deal with the rebuilding process when you have a roster meant to contend, but missing a star. He spent recent years clearing up cap space to make the moves he has made. Asik, Lin were gambles that appeared to have worked. They traded two 4's for Robinson (most potential of any of those guys traded) plus it opened up minutes for D-Mo, another 4. They had an excess of scrub power forwards they had to get rid of, and did well for themselves. They are also in position to pick up Dwight via sign and trade with Asik.
I adressed all that.

[Richie]

Gotta like their team going forward. Lin/Harden/Parsons/Robinson/Asik is very young and has huge potential. Throw in their cap space and they could be a contender next year if they do well in free agency this summer. Need to start playing defence though, picking up Josh Smith and Tony Allen could be good options.

[sook]

14th pick Patrick Patterson- Develop him and throw him away
14th pick Marcus Morris- Traded for a 2nd rounder
14th pick Royce White- Isn't even playing

[Richie]

14th pick Patrick Patterson- Develop him and throw him away
14th pick Marcus Morris- Traded for a 2nd rounder
14th pick Royce White- Isn't even playing

Patterson was hardly thrown away, Robinson is a legit talent.

[Clipper Nation]

He's the Billy Beane of hoops- gets lionized by the advanced-stat dorks who care more about the method than about the actual results.

Seriously? It's a miracle that the A's are even competitive more often than not considering that hideous stadium with low attendance, their market size, and the structure of baseball, and that's all because of Billy Beane....

[racm]

While I'll leave the debate of results-oriented versus process-oriented paradigms towards sports management for a Pounding the Rock article, Morey is heads above the treadmill GMs like John Hammond and Billy King.

That said, unless you can snag a top 5 player through the draft, free agency, or through a trade (instigated by the player himself more often than not, elite players are typically guys who control their own destiny in terms of team) you're always gonna be boned IMO.

[Trainwreck2100]

His big coup, Scola, was only made possible by Yao finding a way around the CBA

[Thread]

The motherfuckers just got hammered at home.

I'll be a son-of-bitch. Fuck me.

[Latarian Milton]

morey ain't a bad GM imho. dude has no responsibility for dishing 7'6 shit the lucrative 78m/5yr contract. his predecessor did the whole shit and dropped the team in trash, and morey has been doing his best to pay back for the previous mistakes that dawson made tbh

[TrainOfThought5]

Morey has been solid with the cards he's been dealt. Not sure what the OP is complaining about exactly, the team is young and has talent + Star + direction + Cap space.

if they would have tanked and picked the wrong guy (very possible) the OP would then be mad about bad record AND shitty/bust player. (Royce White?)

[HarlemHeat37]

Morey is one of the top 5 GMs in the NBA, tbh..

He has his flaws, but he's much less harmful than the majority of the GMs in the NBA, tbh..

Even Sam Presti, a guy that is constantly praised, has made some mistakes and needed luck..

Morey got Houston a potential franchise player this year, and Asik has been very productive, proving most skeptics wrong, tbh..

[Mal]

But he made Rockets a very good team, with salary space to lure another top player. They have good, young core, already having true leader and top tier player. Future is brigth for them.

Edit: They are going to pay 30mil to Lin and Asik in 2014/15. :lmao

[TheRealCB]

But he made Rockets a very good team, with salary space to lure another top player. They have good, young core, already having true leader and top tier player. Future is brigth for them.

Edit: They are going to pay 30mil to Lin and Asik in 2014/15. :lmao


Seeing what Morey has done up to this point,I wouldn't laugh at the idea of him having 2 15 mil expirings to play with.

[Koolaid_Man]

I've said this many times and people always give me shit but its about time I put it out there. The guy is mediocre at best. Has he pulled some amazing moves? Yea he has. The Harden trade was killer.

That being said, the guy has had 4 years in the rebuilding process, coming out with one star is the least you can expect. Wait...but ...but he only got 14th pick everytime!...Who THE FUCK cares. If you don't want the 14th pick then you send the organization in the direction of obtaining a higher pick, every team has to do it.

The guy doesn't get it, I was fed up with him right after firing Adelman which to be fair to him had a lot to do with the owner Les.



we're coming for you Sook...we want that 7th spot...we'll get it by nook, took, book, crook or hook in sook's ass....:lol

[GuerillaBlack]

But he made Rockets a very good team, with salary space to lure another top player. They have good, young core, already having true leader and top tier player. Future is brigth for them.

Edit: They are going to pay 30mil to Lin and Asik in 2014/15. :lmao

Only counts as 8.3M against the cap for Lin and Asik.

[Latarian Milton]

morey is a genius indeed. rockets haven't dropped too far (#9 seed 2 or 3 years in a row) even during the time when they were rebuilding, and they're back in the playoff range now with a band of promising youths. his predecessor (dawson) dug a deep hole on this team and morey has done a perfect job filling that hole imho

[Mal]

Only counts as 8.3M against the cap for Lin and Asik.

So this hoopshype salary tables are wrong. They counted 15mil against the cap

[racm]

So this hoopshype salary tables are wrong. They counted 15mil against the cap

They count as 8.3 million cap wise but they're still paid 15 million in effect. It would have been 5/5/15 if Chicago/New York matched.

[Mal]

They count as 8.3 million cap wise but they're still paid 15 million in effect. It would have been 5/5/15 if Chicago/New York matched.

I do understand this deal. I wasnt aware at the time. Hoopshype got sum of Rockets salaries for 2014/15 standing as 51mil $, with Harden, Asik, Lin getting 15mil each. That confused me. If the real cap hit of those deals are 8,3mil, that means Rockets got 36mil in the books, rather than 51 mil.

And of course those contracts are 8,3mil expiring, not 15, am I right on this ?

[Raven]

You brush off the the fact that he had crappy draft slots, then say "its expected to get at least one superstar." I think he's done pretty well. For a team that had spent years trying to build around Yao only to see him end his career that way, I'm sure it was rough to deal with the rebuilding process when you have a roster meant to contend, but missing a star. He spent recent years clearing up cap space to make the moves he has made. Asik, Lin were gambles that appeared to have worked. They traded two 4's for Robinson (most potential of any of those guys traded) plus it opened up minutes for D-Mo, another 4. They had an excess of scrub power forwards they had to get rid of, and did well for themselves. They are also in position to pick up Dwight via sign and trade with Asik.

actually he's the one who traded for and drafted all those pf-s, some of them were even cutted.. really, aside from the harden trade, i don't see what good has he done.. choosing lin over dragič is dumb, the draft was a big loss despite the available talent, he failed completely on his quest to sign a star in free agency.. i like the delfino signing, but honestly, wasn't being first round fodder/9th place exactly what houston didn't want to be? also, they will not sign howard (miracles happen though) so how will they use all that cap space? He has been lucky, but at some point you need results..

[Seventyniner]

If Morey was better at drafting he'd look a lot more like a genius. The trades and FA signings have been solid.

[024]

meh, the rockets did a pretty good job rebuilding. the effectiveness of the robinson for patterson trade will yet to be determined and signing jeremy lin to such a large contract was highly questionable. they wanted to win and rebuild at the same time which is always a bad tactic. thus, they couldn't benefit from multiple high lottery picks like the thunder. however, they still managed to pick up a franchise player in harden and another promising young big in asik. add that with the cap space to sign another superstar, the rockets might be a 3-4 seed next year.

just look at the kings, bobcats, wizards, and pistons who have been rebuilding for eternity and you will see that morey is in no way a bad gm.

[wekko368]

If Morey was better at drafting he'd look a lot more like a genius. The trades and FA signings have been solid.

Given his draft positioning, how can you criticize his drafting....especially when you consider what he did with those pieces?

Morey drafted Aaron Brooks at the end of the first round and eventually traded him for Dragic. We got Budinger in the 2nd round, and he eventually became a rotational player. With our two first round #14 picks, we got Patterson and Morris, and we flipped them for Thomas Robinson (this year's #5 pick). And with last year's late 1st round pick and 2nd round pick, we got Dmo and Parsons. Both of them are currently in our starting lineup.

If you're not impressed with Morey's drafting, whose drafting does impress you?

[Seventyniner]

Given his draft positioning, how can you criticize his drafting....especially when you consider what he did with those pieces?

Morey drafted Aaron Brooks at the end of the first round and eventually traded him for Dragic. We got Budinger in the 2nd round, and he eventually became a rotational player. With our two first round #14 picks, we got Patterson and Morris, and we flipped them for Thomas Robinson (this year's #5 pick). And with last year's late 1st round pick and 2nd round pick, we got Dmo and Parsons. Both of them are currently in our starting lineup.

If you're not impressed with Morey's drafting, whose drafting does impress you?

I didn't say Morey's drafting was bad, just that it wasn't great. I meant that the trades and FA signings have been great, so with great drafting it would be a trifecta and therefore he'd be a genius.

You can't give him credit for Budinger at #44 without docking him for taking Jermaine Taylor at #32 and Sergio Llull at #34 in the same draft. He also could have kept Nic Batum instead of trading him for Donte Greene, Joey Dorsey, and a second-round pick.

Brooks was a solid pick, and Parsons was a steal. I'll give you that. Carl Landry was a good pick too.

Patterson was good value at #14, but Morris seemed like a reach. The fact that the Rockets dumped him for a second-rounder seems to back that up.

And none of this mentions R:lolyce White.

As for whose drafting does impress me, I'll take the homer route. Kupchak does a decent job with the picks he gets, too.

[sook]

Given his draft positioning, how can you criticize his drafting....especially when you consider what he did with those pieces?

Morey drafted Aaron Brooks at the end of the first round and eventually traded him for Dragic. We got Budinger in the 2nd round, and he eventually became a rotational player. With our two first round #14 picks, we got Patterson and Morris, and we flipped them for Thomas Robinson (this year's #5 pick). And with last year's late 1st round pick and 2nd round pick, we got Dmo and Parsons. Both of them are currently in our starting lineup.

If you're not impressed with Morey's drafting, whose drafting does impress you?Did you not read the OP....it wasn't Morey's decision to draft Brooks, Adelman convinced him to since he watched him play in college and thought he would be good for his system. Landry was scouted by CD before and was the one to tell morey to draft him since it was his first year as GM. He has come out and admitted this.

[wekko368]

You can't give him credit for Budinger at #44 without docking him for taking Jermaine Taylor at #32 and Sergio Llull at #34 in the same draft.

Why not? The success rate of 2nd round picks is very slim. If they don't pan out, no big dea. That's par for the course. But if a 2nd rounder does turn into a rotational player, then the GM deserves a lot of credit.


He also could have kept Nic Batum instead of trading him for Donte Greene, Joey Dorsey, and a second-round pick.

You're forgetting that at the time, we had Yao/McGrady and were in win-now mode. We traded Greene, Bobby Jackson (who we acquired by trading Bonzi Wells and Mike James), and a first round pick for Ron Artest. After that trade, we looked pretty good on paper.



Patterson was good value at #14, but Morris seemed like a reach. The fact that the Rockets dumped him for a second-rounder seems to back that up.

Not really a logical assumption. Both Dmo and Robinson have more potential than Morris so it makes sense that Morris was traded. You may think we "dumped" him, but in the grand scheme of things, we save on guaranteed salary and Phoenix's 2nd round draft pick looks like it'll be pretty good.



And none of this mentions R:lolyce White.

Yep, that sucked, but everyone knew that taking White with the #16 was a high-risk, high-reward move.


As for whose drafting does impress me, I'll take the homer route. Kupchak does a decent job with the picks he gets, too.

The only rotational players I can think of are Bynum, Luke Walton, and Vujacic. Who am I missing?

[wekko368]

Did you not read the OP....it wasn't Morey's decision to draft Brooks, Adelman convinced him to since he watched him play in college and thought he would be good for his system. Landry was scouted by CD before and was the one to tell morey to draft him since it was his first year as GM. He has come out and admitted this.

Yep, I did read the OP, but it was wrong. Coaches and assistants can advise all they want, but ultimately, drafting is the GM's decision. If he's going to get the criticism, then he also deserves the praise.

For instance, look at all the flak Morey gets b/c of Royce White. He didn't even want White. McHale convinced Morey to draft him. Nevertheless, White is garbage and Morey rightfully deserves the blame.

[Seventyniner]

Why not? The success rate of 2nd round picks is very slim. If they don't pan out, no big dea. That's par for the course. But if a 2nd rounder does turn into a rotational player, then the GM deserves a lot of credit.

Fair point, though #32 and #34 are two of the most coveted positions in the draft outside the lottery. Then again, it's not like GMs consistently find good players there.


You're forgetting that at the time, we had Yao/McGrady and were in win-now mode. We traded Greene, Bobby Jackson (who we acquired by trading Bonzi Wells and Mike James), and a first round pick for Ron Artest. After that trade, we looked pretty good on paper.

The Artest trade was fine. Too bad he was already a Laker before he actually signed in LA. Still, the return on that pick alone wasn't much, and even in win-now mode you can't afford to waste assets.


Not really a logical assumption. Both Dmo and Robinson have more potential than Morris so it makes sense that Morris was traded. You may think we "dumped" him, but in the grand scheme of things, we save on guaranteed salary and Phoenix's 2nd round draft pick looks like it'll be pretty good.

Morris was the right one to trade (between he and Dmo), but it was still a trade down. Yes, that Phoenix pick will be good, but the aforementioned #32 and #34 picks didn't work out well, so if that pick ends up being a bust, it'll be a waste of a #14 pick.


Yep, that sucked, but everyone knew that taking White with the #16 was a high-risk, high-reward move.

I didn't know that bit about Morey not wanting White. Do you know if it was because of the anxiety issue?


The only rotational players I can think of are Bynum, Luke Walton, and Vujacic. Who am I missing?

I only thought of the Lakers because they don't seem to have many busts, and get decent value in the 2nd round. Not really comparable to the Rockets' situation. In fact, the Lakers just don't get that many picks period. Then I looked at the list again and saw Javaris Crittenton. My mistake.

Of course, their 2nd round picks might look decent only because they see the court due to the Lakers not having a lot of depth recently, not because they're actually good players.

[sook]

Yep, I did read the OP, but it was wrong. Coaches and assistants can advise all they want, but ultimately, drafting is the GM's decision. If he's going to get the criticism, then he also deserves the praise.

For instance, look at all the flak Morey gets b/c of Royce White. He didn't even want White. McHale convinced Morey to draft him. Nevertheless, White is garbage and Morey rightfully deserves the blame.
How is it wrong? A guy out of MIT with LIMITED b-ball knowledge listens to the coach and the previous GM on who to draft and he gets credited for it? If I was GM and I listened to what they said would that make me a great GM, great at building a championship team, great at having an eye for talent? No it wouldn't , because that is what we are talking about here. Buddinger and Parsons have been his best draft choices. It would be unfair to call him out about Royce White crapping the bed because that would make what I said hypocritical , I don't fault him for that.

[wekko368]

How is it wrong?

Like I said before, drafting is the GM's responsibility. He can have all the advisers in the world, but at the end of the day, its his call.

So he does get credit for Brooks and Landry.....just like he gets criticism for White.

[Latarian Milton]

actually he's the one who traded for and drafted all those pf-s, some of them were even cutted.. really, aside from the harden trade, i don't see what good has he done.. choosing lin over dragič is dumb, the draft was a big loss despite the available talent, he failed completely on his quest to sign a star in free agency.. i like the delfino signing, but honestly, wasn't being first round fodder/9th place exactly what houston didn't want to be? also, they will not sign howard (miracles happen though) so how will they use all that cap space? He has been lucky, but at some point you need results..
dragic might be a better player but Rin has more market value, which was the main reason he chose him imho. morey has done a good job agglutinating a bag of craps into a legit playoff team, but i wouldn't never expect them to achieve more than that when they're based in a small market and their boss is such a stingy asshole.

the shittiest moves the rockets have made in the past decade were drafting yao with the #1 pick in 02 and re-signing him to a lucrative contract when he was almost done, but morey has nothing to do with those moves tbh