Vote for the Top 10 PFs of all time

[TDfan2007]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/9056315/all-time-nba-power-forwards


Top 4 is tough, but I really think SN is undervaluing defense. KG should probably be #2 behind Timmy.

Current Top 10 according to SN:
1. Malone
2. Duncan
3. Barkley
4. Garnett
5. McHale
6. Dirk
7. Elvin Hayes
8. Bob Petit
9. Dennis Rodman
10. Dave DeBusschere

[whitemamba]

honest question, does gasol really not make this list? Spur fans give him all the credit for winning those 2 titles...

[DMC]

Pau Gasol wimped out, bowed to the pressure of Kobe and got cucked by Shannon fucking Brown. No

[phxspurfan]

Gasol was good for two years. The rest of the time he was good but irrelevant on the Grizz. He couldn't even get them out of the first round.

[Clipper Nation]

Their list loses credibility at Malone being ranked over Duncan, tbh....

[phxspurfan]

I'd have Duncan over Malone. Not because of championships (even though that could make a case), but because Malone had Stockton to hand him many of those points through the pick n roll throughout his whole career. Duncan was beasting before Parker, with Avery, Terry Porter and Antonio Daniels at PG.

[Lincoln]

Dirk is better than KG.

[Arcadian]

Duncan at #1 is obvious.

Rodman shouldn't be on the list, nor should Dave DB. I'd take Webber and Schayes over them.

[BatManu20]

Their list loses credibility at Malone being ranked over Duncan, tbh....

[irishock]

Malone had a top 5 PG, set all the scoring records and still couldn't win a championship.

[HarlemHeat37]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett/Nowitzki
4. Malone/Barkley
6. McHale
7. Hayes
8. Pettit
9. Gasol
10. ???

Rodman doesn't belong on the list, tbh..great player and HOFer, but a guy that couldn't create his own shot doesn't belong on these lists, unless he benefited from a scarcely televised generation(Russell)..

[resistanze]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Nowitzki
4. Barkley
5. Malone
6. McHale
etc.

[Jodelo]

Dirk over KG!

[whitemamba]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett/Nowitzki
4. Malone/Barkley
6. McHale
7. Hayes
8. Pettit
9. Gasol
10. ???

Rodman doesn't belong on the list, tbh..great player and HOFer, but a guy that couldn't create his own shot doesn't belong on these lists, unless he benefited from a scarcely televised generation(Russell)..

agree with this list, and i would still put rodman at number 10, even though he couldnt create his own shot.. but his presence on the defensive end, as well as offensive boards was impressive, we talk about scoring and shit all the time, but doesnt defense win championships?

- two-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year
- eight-time NBA All-Defensive Team selection
- two-time All-NBA selection
- fourth all-time in offensive rebounds in NBA history
- tenth all-time in rebounds per game in NBA history

#10 is deserved imho

[FkLA]

Dirk at #6 :lmao

[Juggity]

Malone is borderline top 5 at best. Never winning a ring does ya in like that.

lol butthurt Jazz fans propping him up in the rankings despite the fact that Duncan has proven his superiority innumerable times by dominating on the biggest stage of the sport.

[FkLA]

Dirk over KG!


Dirk is better than KG.

:lmao

[LkrFan]

Pau Gasol wimped out, bowed to the pressure of Kobe and got cucked by Shannon fucking Brown. No
This is hoe shit right here. Before Kobe he was 0-12 and a Spur Fan afterthought. With Kobe he went to 3 straight Finals winning two. Make up your mind - either he is a great PF or he sucks major ass. I guess it depends on your agenda. :rolleyes

Act like somebody for once, you old, decrepit, racist, asshole. :downspin:

[LkrFan]

Malone is borderline top 5 at best. Never winning a ring does ya in like that.

lol butthurt Jazz fans propping him up in the rankings despite the fact that Duncan has proven his superiority innumerable times by dominating on the biggest stage of the sport.By your logic LBJ shouldn't even be in the top 10 all-time conversation that you guys keep putting him in. I've held firm that he doesn't belong. Why? He won 33% of the Finals he played in, after all. ;)

[FkLA]

Malone is borderline top 5 at best. Never winning a ring does ya in like that.

lol butthurt Jazz fans propping him up in the rankings despite the fact that Duncan has proven his superiority innumerable times by dominating on the biggest stage of the sport.

Yeah because Dirk and KG wouldve rang during the Jordan era. :rolleyes

Shit I dont even think Timmy wouldve.

[AussieFanKurt]

Which retard put this list together.... what in the fuck?

1. Duncan


2. KG/Dirk
3. Charles
4. Malone
5. McHale

[LkrFan]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett/Nowitzki
4. Malone/Barkley
6. McHale
7. Hayes
8. Pettit
9. Gasol
10. ???

Rodman doesn't belong on the list, tbh..great player and HOFer, but a guy that couldn't create his own shot doesn't belong on these lists, unless he benefited from a scarcely televised generation(Russell)..
Now ppg matter eh? :lol You guys are quick to dismiss Kobe as having a better career than Duncan - nevermind that he's a top 5 scorer in league history. To a man, prime Rodman would shut down every PF you have on this list. He's a 5x champion too. Not bad for a player who averaged 7.3 ppg and 13.1 rpg over his career. He could literally guard all 5 positions on the court. I'm glad the HOF got it right in voting him in. He surely don't get any love around these parts.

[LakeShow]

Spurs fans kill me trying to make Duncan the best at something. :lol First of all, Tim Duncan is not a PF. He used the title of PF he could make the all-star due to Yao Ming getting all the votes. If you classify Duncan as a PF, you have to do the same with Hakeem Olajuwon who was a much better ball player than Duncan. Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe the coach who coached him his entire career.

When asked who the starting center would be in Game 1 against the Jazz, Pop treated it as a silly question and said: “Tim Duncan, like we have for the past 15 years.”

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/04/30/how-important-is-tim-duncans-legacy-and-is-he-really-a-center/

[FkLA]

PF or C, hes still the player of the decade tbh.
'
:flag:

[BatManu20]

Spurs fans kill me trying to make Duncan the best at something. :lol First of all, Tim Duncan is not a PF. He used the title of PF he could make the all-star due to Yao Ming getting all the votes. If you classify Duncan as a PF, you have to do the same with Hakeem Olajuwon who was a much better ball player than Duncan. Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe the coach who coached him his entire career.

When asked who the starting center would be in Game 1 against the Jazz, Pop treated it as a silly question and said: “Tim Duncan, like we have for the past 15 years.”

So you're telling me that David Robinson played PF from 1997 - 2003? Lol get real. Or how about from 2004-2005, after Robinson retired, when we had Rasho Nesterovic and Nazr Muhammad at Center? Were either of them a PF? Lol hell no. Or from 2006 - 2008 when we had Francisco Elson and Fabricio Oberto at Center? No again. Or how about now? Is Tiago Splitter a PF? Yea right.. Yes, Duncan's played some Center in his career as the game has become more about speed than size. Same thing Kevin Garnett is doing. Is he a Center just cause he's played there for 2 years now? No. Duncan is a PF who has played at C for spurts in his career, but has played far more PF than Center.

And that quote was taken out of context. You know that.

[007nites]

Spurs fans kill me trying to make Duncan the best at something. :lol First of all, Tim Duncan is not a PF. He used the title of PF he could make the all-star due to Yao Ming getting all the votes. If you classify Duncan as a PF, you have to do the same with Hakeem Olajuwon who was a much better ball player than Duncan. Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe the coach who coached him his entire career.

When asked who the starting center would be in Game 1 against the Jazz, Pop treated it as a silly question and said: “Tim Duncan, like we have for the past 15 years.”

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/04/30/how-important-is-tim-duncans-legacy-and-is-he-really-a-center/

1997-2003 - Robinson
2004-2005 - Nazr Mohammed & Rasho Nestervic
2006-2007 - Fabricio Oberto & Francisco Elson
2008-2009 - Fabricio Oberto
2010-Present - Duncan

[whitemamba]

This is hoe shit right here. Before Kobe he was 0-12 and a Spur Fan afterthought. With Kobe he went to 3 straight Finals winning two. Make up your mind - either he is a great PF or he sucks major ass. I guess it depends on your agenda. :rolleyes

Act like somebody for once, you old, decrepit, racist, asshole. :downspin:

well done sir.. exact reason why i argued for gasol, spurfan is obviously confused.but kobe carried gasol? wait or gasol carried kobe? whats next :lol

[whitemamba]

Spurs fans kill me trying to make Duncan the best at something. :lol First of all, Tim Duncan is not a PF. He used the title of PF he could make the all-star due to Yao Ming getting all the votes. If you classify Duncan as a PF, you have to do the same with Hakeem Olajuwon who was a much better ball player than Duncan. Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe the coach who coached him his entire career.

When asked who the starting center would be in Game 1 against the Jazz, Pop treated it as a silly question and said: “Tim Duncan, like we have for the past 15 years.”

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/04/30/how-important-is-tim-duncans-legacy-and-is-he-really-a-center/

goods. :toast

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not denying Rodman's impact, he's in the elite super role player category with the likes of Bill Russell and Ben Wallace(I was a huge Ben Wallace fan btw, he's still underrated), I just have a difficult time ranking players that are completely useless on the offensive end, tbh..

Sure, guys like Nowitzki and Barkley weren't good defensive players, but their offensive impact and role as a #1 option is more important than a guy like Rodman or other defensive specialists IMO..

After thinking about it, I guess I don't mind his inclusion, but I can't put him ahead of guys that were top 2 options on title teams..

As for Malone, his ring count is irrelevant..he was a perennial choker that failed to perform in big games..

[TDMVPDPOY]

i take dirk over kg also

i dont care if kg can anchor defense, or play multiple positions, when his needed his nowhere to be seen, and big man playing the midrange game is a no no....

[whitemamba]

^thus putting him at 10..

[HarlemHeat37]

Gasol's #2 options in Memphis were guys like Mike Miller, Shane Battier and James Posey IIRC:lol..

The Lakers system obviously helped, Gasol fit the triangle perfectly, but his output is always going to be minimized by playing behind Kobe, with his deranged fanbase and media protection..

[Pickle]

Dirk at #6 :lmao
i kno right, he should be higher

[Jodelo]

:lmao

On which position do you have Diaw in this list?

[LkrFan]

I'm not denying Rodman's impact, he's in the elite super role player category with the likes of Bill Russell and Ben Wallace(I was a huge Ben Wallace fan btw, he's still underrated), I just have a difficult time ranking players that are completely useless on the offensive end, tbh..
Elite super role player? :rollin :lmao :rollin I see you guys are still holding it against him for SA not ranging. This super duper role player deluxe kept MJ out the Finals a few times and won during MJ's reign. Then he helped MJ win 3 more. It wasn't until Pip's sac descended that the Bulls finally won (and NBA expansion, Magic and Bird getting old, etc., but that's another argument). And I wonder what LnG thinks of you saying Big Bill was a role playa. :lol

His hoops IQ is high. He could score, but why should he even try to go 20/10 with teammates like Zeke, Joe Dumars, MJ, and Pippen? Don't get me wrong, he didn't have 20/10 type offensive game, but to say he was useless on that side of the floor is agenda laced IMO.


Sure, guys like Nowitzki and Barkley weren't good defensive players, but their offensive impact and role as a #1 option is more important than a guy like Rodman or other defensive specialists IMO..I put KG over _irk and Barkley because he was an elite defender in his prime and could basically give you 20/10. He also is a one time winner like _irk. So I'm not sure how you can say _irk is better tbh. Give me KG's career over _irk's 24/7 tbh.


After thinking about it, I guess I don't mind his inclusion, but I can't put him ahead of guys that were top 2 options on title teams..Everyone does it (place more importance on offense than defense). The great role player (aka Bill Russell) was one of the best defenders of all time and one of the best rebounders of all time. In other words he was an elite defensive anchor - and he won more times than MJ ever did. Yet MJ is considered GOAT. Why is that? Because he avg 30 ppg for his career and did it with SportsCenter worthy style.


As for Malone, his ring count is irrelevant..he was a perennial choker that failed to perform in big games..Malone was a victim of playing in the MJ era. If the refs call the MJ pushoff of Russell, who knows, maybe Mailman has one ring. Game 7 would have been in Salt Lake where I give them a great chance of beating the Bulls. They would have been the Utah Thunderefs in det one. :lol

[DAF86]

From the ones I've seen:

1-Duncan
2-KG
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Dirk

[Juggity]

By your logic LBJ shouldn't even be in the top 10 all-time conversation that you guys keep putting him in. I've held firm that he doesn't belong. Why? He won 33% of the Finals he played in, after all. ;)

Lebron ain't a top 10-er yet. But he's on his way.

1 ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0 rings
2 rings > 1 ring

[LkrFan]

Lebron ain't a top 10-er yet. But he's on his way.

1 ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0 rings
2 rings > 1 ring
If I read your post correctly, 5 > 4. Amiright? :downspin:

[Juggity]

If I read your post correctly, 5 > 4. Amiright? :downspin:

Yep, and:
3 FMVPs > 2 FMVPs
2 MVPs > 1 MVPs

The main point of the comparison, though, is that 1 ring is infinitely better than zero, whereas 2 rings is not nearly as much better. The gap between 0 and 1 is the one that matters most.

[skmblz]

lol putting KG and McHale over dirk...

[Cry Havoc]

Sir Charles or Dirk? That's a pretty good question TBH. Bark was a monster back in the day.

[da_suns_fan]

In terms of overall career, Id go with Duncan (if hes REALLY a PF and not a center which is arguable).

In terms of who was the best at their respective peak, its Barkley by a mile.

[irishock]

Bark couldn't beat MJ. Dirk beat LeBron.

[skmblz]

Bark couldn't beat MJ. Dirk beat LeBron.

good point

[baseline bum]

1. Tim Duncan
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Charles Barkley
4. Karl Malone
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Kevin McHale
7. Bob Pettit
8. Dennis Rodman
9. Elvin Hayes
10. Dave DeBusschere

I really wanted to pick Barkley here #2, but after thinking about it it may just be old-school nostalgia ranking him over a more clutch player who led a team to a title.

[TD 21]

1997-2003 - Robinson
2004-2005 - Nazr Mohammed & Rasho Nestervic
2006-2007 - Fabricio Oberto & Francisco Elson
2008-2009 - Fabricio Oberto
2010-Present - Duncan

'06-'07 was the season he became a full time C. Sure, they pretended Oberto and Elson were the C's, but they pretend everyone opposite him is, from Jeremy Richardson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801210CHA.html) to Diaw.

Never really understood the never ending "Is Duncan a PF or a C?" debate. Quite clearly, he's a C, who primarily played PF his first nine seasons because the Spurs had an all-time great C already in place when he was drafted. So what? Was Rodriguez not the greatest SS of all time because he was over sized for the position, had a unique skill set for it and later moved to 3B?

1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Garnett
4. Barkley
5. Nowitzki
6. McHale
7. Gasol (Let's not pretend he's too not a C, who's masqueraded as a PF for the majority of his career)
8. Pettit
9. Hayes
10. Webber

[Latarian Milton]

pau is a good player and all. dude needs to at least win a GAME in the playoffs by himself to justify all the praises/hypes from spain and the former spanish colonies tbh, and i don't think he's anywhere close to the top 10 range when it comes to all-time best PFs.

current players who're locked for that hall are duncan, dirk and KG. monkeyball is a promising superstar but he hasn't accomplished shit yet

[DMC]

This is hoe shit right here. Before Kobe he was 0-12 and a Spur Fan afterthought. With Kobe he went to 3 straight Finals winning two. Make up your mind - either he is a great PF or he sucks major ass. I guess it depends on your agenda. :rolleyes

Act like somebody for once, you old, decrepit, racist, asshole. :downspin:

Pau took Kobe to the Finals. Why couldn't Kobe get past the fucking Suns in the 1st round sans Pau?

Pau changed after the sweep by the Mavs, after Shannon Brown cucked him. Prior to that he was an all star, and the primary reason the Lakers won b2b, and Artest's putback of the brick.

[DMC]

In terms of overall career, Id go with Duncan (if hes REALLY a PF and not a center which is arguable).

In terms of who was the best at their respective peak, its Barkley by a mile.

During the championship years, Duncan played with a true center. His top of the key shot, footwork outside the paint, the Sun killing 3... that's PF stuff.

[Killakobe81]

honest question, does gasol really not make this list? Spur fans give him all the credit for winning those 2 titles...

LOL

[Killakobe81]

'06-'07 was the season he became a full time C. Sure, they pretended Oberto and Elson were the C's, but they pretend everyone opposite him is, from Jeremy Richardson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801210CHA.html) to Diaw.

Never really understood the never ending "Is Duncan a PF or a C?" debate. Quite clearly, he's a C, who primarily played PF his first nine seasons because the Spurs had an all-time great C already in place when he was drafted. So what? Was Rodriguez not the greatest SS of all time because he was over sized for the position, had a unique skill set for it and later moved to 3B?

1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Garnett
4. Barkley
5. Nowitzki
6. McHale
7. Gasol (Let's not pretend he's too not a C, who's masqueraded as a PF for the majority of his career)
8. Pettit
9. Hayes
10. Webber

LOL at Pau at 7 ...Never saw Hayes or Petit but pretty sure the big E in his peak was a better player than Pau. Pau vs. Cwebb is interesting. Despite PAu's great skill-set not sure P{au is better but rings matter a lot to me ... and PAu was the second option on 3 Finals teams winning two.

Not sure how Malone gets the nod over Tim for some people. But if we consider Duncan a center that is amuch more interesting debate I give him the slight edge on Shaq ... behind Kareem out of guys I have seen.

[Killakobe81]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Nowitzki
4. Barkley
5. Malone
6. McHale
etc.

Good list.

[midnightpulp]

Elite super role player? :rollin :lmao :rollin I see you guys are still holding it against him for SA not ranging. This super duper role player deluxe kept MJ out the Finals a few times and won during MJ's reign. Then he helped MJ win 3 more. It wasn't until Pip's sac descended that the Bulls finally won (and NBA expansion, Magic and Bird getting old, etc., but that's another argument). And I wonder what LnG thinks of you saying Big Bill was a role playa. :lol

His hoops IQ is high. He could score, but why should he even try to go 20/10 with teammates like Zeke, Joe Dumars, MJ, and Pippen? Don't get me wrong, he didn't have 20/10 type offensive game, but to say he was useless on that side of the floor is agenda laced IMO.

I put KG over _irk and Barkley because he was an elite defender in his prime and could basically give you 20/10. He also is a one time winner like _irk. So I'm not sure how you can say _irk is better tbh. Give me KG's career over _irk's 24/7 tbh.

Everyone does it (place more importance on offense than defense). The great role player (aka Bill Russell) was one of the best defenders of all time and one of the best rebounders of all time. In other words he was an elite defensive anchor - and he won more times than MJ ever did. Yet MJ is considered GOAT. Why is that? Because he avg 30 ppg for his career and did it with SportsCenter worthy style.

Malone was a victim of playing in the MJ era. If the refs call the MJ pushoff of Russell, who knows, maybe Mailman has one ring. Game 7 would have been in Salt Lake where I give them a great chance of beating the Bulls. They would have been the Utah Thunderefs in det one. :lol

This shit again?

Malone is a .463 career playoff shooter, down 53 percentage points from his regular season career shooting average of .516. I can't think of any other top 15 all-time great that's had such a drop-off.

Malone was a choker, plain and simple.

[da_suns_fan]

Kids today.

How many players on this list ever scored 40+ points and pulled down 20+ rebounds in a single game in the finals?

How many players on this list ever scored 40+ points and pulled down 20+ rebounds in a single game in the conference finals?

How many players on this list ever scored 56 points in a playoff game?

How many players on this list ever led the league in triple doubles?

The answer to all of these questions is: ONE. And that player is always Charles Barkley.

Picking Duncan over Barkley is excusable considering "he" won championships and Barkley's teams always came up short. But putting Dirk ahead of him is beyond fucking stupid. Barkley was a better scorer, rebounder, passer, shot blocker and just better basketball player.

[spurraider21]

This Dirk over KG nonsense confuses me. It's like people forget that defense is half the game, and that prime KG's offense matches anything Dirk did. He pretty much played point guard and power forward simultaneously. They both have 1 ring. While KG did team up with Pierce/Ray, he was still the defensive anchor of that team and absolutely dominated Pau which keyed that title imo. Still, Dirk had a lot of help on that roster, although I'll give him all the respect for that playoff run. He was a man possessed. But having Chandler/Marion as defensive stalwarts really keyed the Miami series. Plus he had guys like Kidd, Terry

[midnightpulp]

Kids today.

How many players on this list ever scored 40+ points and pulled down 20+ rebounds in a single game in the finals?

How many players on this list ever scored 40+ points and pulled down 20+ rebounds in a single game in the conference finals?

How many players on this list ever scored 56 points in a playoff game?

How many players on this list ever led the league in triple doubles?

The answer to all of these questions is: ONE. And that player is always Charles Barkley.

Picking Duncan over Barkley is excusable considering "he" won championships and Barkley's teams always came up short. But putting Dirk ahead of him is beyond fucking stupid. Barkley was a better scorer, rebounder, passer, shot blocker and just better basketball player.

Putting Karl Malone ahead of Barkley is also beyond fuckin' stupid.

[dunkman]

1. Duncan (the best player of 4 'ship teams, was unstoppable earlier in his career, no flaws in his game does everything well, great consistency)
2. Dirk (won 1, one finals - as the man, unstoppable scorer, good rebounder, great consistency)
3. Malone (two finals as Jazz best player, great consistency, good rebounder, solid defense, solid passing)
4. KG (won 1 and one finals but most would say Pierce is the C's best player, great defense and consistency, great all around game)
5. Barkley (made it once to the finals as the best Suns player, did everything great, scoring, passing, rebounding, lacked supporting cast, not a good defense)
6. McHale (won 3 'ships with Bird, great low post skills, great defense and rebounder, seldom passed the ball back)

[Killakobe81]

Putting Karl Malone ahead of Barkley is also beyond fuckin' stupid.

I agree though a shitty defender compared to Tim, KG and Malone he was not the choker Malone was. Chuck should only be behind Tim and MAYBE KG ...KG also had some choke games but I give the nod for his defensive versatility ...but I could see Chuck at 2 or 3 ...

[Killakobe81]

1. Duncan (the best player of 4 'ship teams, was unstoppable earlier in his career, no flaws in his game does everything well, great consistency)
2. Dirk (won 1, one finals - as the man, unstoppable scorer, good rebounder, great consistency)
3. Malone (two finals as Jazz best player, great consistency, good rebounder, solid defense, solid passing)
4. KG (won 1 and one finals but most would say Pierce is the C's best player, great defense and consistency, great all around game)
5. Barkley (made it once to the finals as the best Suns player, did everything great, scoring, passing, rebounding, lacked supporting cast, not a good defense)
6. McHale (won 3 'ships with Bird, great low post skills, great defense and rebounder, seldom passed the ball back)

I love Dirk and his 2011 run was amazing ...but #2?!! GTFO

[Girasuck]

Their list loses credibility at Malone being ranked over Duncan, tbh....

How so? ESPN listed 10 players. Fans are voting. ESPN didn't create the list dumbass, just supplied the names.

[spurraider21]

Lebron ain't a top 10-er yet. But he's on his way.

1 ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0 rings
2 rings > 1 ring
I think each ring is exponentially less important than the last. Honestly, I don't say MJ>Kobe because 6>5. There's all sorts of reasons. Even if Kobe rings a 6th time, I wouldnt put him up there with MJ. I think once you win it 2-3 times, you've proven yourself plenty. Look at the NFL, for example. Marino is excluded off every "GOAT" qb list because he never won. Peyton has 1 superbowl win, and people are glad to put him up there with the all time greats. People will say Elway > Brady even though Elway has 2 and Brady has 3. Winning the first is the big one, which is what guys like Dirk, Pierce, KG, Bron (currently have) that validates themselves. Winning again just goes to show it wasn't a 1 year fluke. But once you already have multiple rings, your point has been proven.

Its like, winning a game by 1 says you squeaked out, but bettered them. Winning by 10 says you had a comfy win. But is there a big difference between winning by 30 or winning by 40?

[dunkman]

I love Dirk and his 2011 run was amazing ...but #2?!! GTFO

A part from Duncan, what PF had/has a better career?

[Killakobe81]

A part from Duncan, what PF had/has a better career?

KG, Chuck, Malone all have cases ...I

[Killakobe81]

I think each ring is exponentially less important than the last. Honestly, I don't say MJ>Kobe because 6>5. There's all sorts of reasons. Even if Kobe rings a 6th time, I wouldnt put him up there with MJ. I think once you win it 2-3 times, you've proven yourself plenty. Look at the NFL, for example. Marino is excluded off every "GOAT" qb list because he never won. Peyton has 1 superbowl win, and people are glad to put him up there with the all time greats. People will say Elway > Brady even though Elway has 2 and Brady has 3. Winning the first is the big one, which is what guys like Dirk, Pierce, KG, Bron (currently have) that validates themselves. Winning again just goes to show it wasn't a 1 year fluke. But once you already have multiple rings, your point has been proven.

Its like, winning a game by 1 says you squeaked out, but bettered them. Winning by 10 says you had a comfy win. But is there a big difference between winning by 30 or winning by 40?

MJ did not need 6 to be greater than Kobe, but hee needed those to surpass Jabbar, Russell and Magic ...
I get your point you only need one to validate greatness but to seperate the best of the best rings DO matter

[dunkman]

KG, Chuck, Malone all have cases ...I

No, they don't.

[da_suns_fan]

Show me another power forward who could ever do this:

pP1MV2rSxIU

Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199306010PHO.html

I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.

Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.

[Juggity]

Show me another power forward who could ever do this:

pP1MV2rSxIU

Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199306010PHO.html

I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.

Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.

Duncan's near quad-dub in the 2003 finals about equally impressive. No doubt Barkley is an all time great though.

[baseline bum]

Malone was a victim of playing in the MJ era. If Malone wasn't a faggot who got stripped on the baseline and then fell over at the end of game 6, maybe Mailman has one ring. Game 7 would have been in Salt Lake where I give them a great chance of beating the Bulls. They would have been the Utah Thunderefs in det one. :lol

FIFY

[Killakobe81]

Show me another power forward who could ever do this:

pP1MV2rSxIU

Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199306010PHO.html

I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.

Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.

I Like Bron, but not sure you can give hin edge over Chuck or Tim just yet ...

I do think Lebron will potentially pass them all ... but he is not there yet

[Killakobe81]

Chuck was a beast I would give him the edge over Dirk, easily. I do like defense so KG and Duncan are tough to take Chuck over but I can see your point Suns fan ... but titles do matter to me wgen the players are close.

[benefactor]

It's fairly obvious who watched ball during the 90's and who didn't. Barkley may be some entertainer on TNT that used to play ball to some of you, but that guy who used to play ball was one of the best players to ever step on the hardwood despite having SG height at the PF position. No one can truly appreciate just how beastly Barkley was unless you watched him live.

He's no lower than top three.

[Killakobe81]

It's fairly obvious who watched ball during the 90's and who didn't. Barkley may be some entertainer on TNT that used to play ball to some of you, but that guy who used to play ball was one of the best players to ever step on the hardwood despite having SG height at the PF position. No one can truly appreciate just how beastly Barkley was unless you watched him live.

He's no lower than top three.

Agreed. Great post.

[LkrFan]

Pau took Kobe to the Finals. Why couldn't Kobe get past the fucking Suns in the 1st round sans Pau?
Pau didn't take Kobe to the Finals. How could you say that when he couldn't even garner 1 win (0-12) before Kobe took him in? And Kobe couldn't get past the Suns because Nash (MVP) >>>> Smush Parker, Amare >>>> Kwame, and the rest of their team was collectively better than our one man gang: Kobe. Even if he would drop 50 on them, it wasn't enough.


Pau changed after the sweep by the Mavs, after Shannon Brown cucked him. Prior to that he was an all star, and the primary reason the Lakers won b2b, and Artest's putback of the brick.

:lol - Pau's game didn't change. _irk was on a mission that year. No shame in losing to eventual champions. And :lol at you guys being two-faced about Pau. I'll say it again. Before Kobe, you guys could give two shits about him. After Kobe, all of a sudden he's the shiznit who took Kobe to the Finals. He couldn't even garner 1 playoff game win without Kobe. :lmao

[BobaFett1]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/9056315/all-time-nba-power-forwards


Top 4 is tough, but I really think SN is undervaluing defense. KG should probably be #2 behind Timmy.

Current Top 10 according to SN:
1. Malone
2. Duncan
3. Barkley
4. Garnett
5. McHale
6. Dirk
7. Elvin Hayes
8. Bob Petit
9. Dennis Rodman
10. Dave DeBusschere

Shawn Kemp

[dunkman]

uFEHw4edZ98

Riley makes some good comments there about Barkley, at the end.

[spurraider21]

MJ did not need 6 to be greater than Kobe, but hee needed those to surpass Jabbar, Russell and Magic ...
I get your point you only need one to validate greatness but to seperate the best of the best rings DO matter

i agree. one ring isn't enough if you want to be an all-time great. look at dirk/kg, currently LeBron. but once you have 3, 4 they sorta blur at that point

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Duncan is 1 no doubt. Tim has all the post moves, shoots jumpers at a high percentage and is a beast defensively. Malone is no where near tim defensively. Malone also has no where near as good a post game as Duncan. Malone was just a product of john stockton getting spoon fed off pick and rolls. let us proceed...

[DMC]

It's

Tim
Karl
Charles


Chuck says so, good enough for me

[DMC]

Pau didn't take Kobe to the Finals. How could you say that when he couldn't even garner 1 win (0-12) before Kobe took him in? And Kobe couldn't get past the Suns because Nash (MVP) >>>> Smush Parker, Amare >>>> Kwame, and the rest of their team was collectively better than our one man gang: Kobe. Even if he would drop 50 on them, it wasn't enough.



:lol - Pau's game didn't change. _irk was on a mission that year. No shame in losing to eventual champions. And :lol at you guys being two-faced about Pau. I'll say it again. Before Kobe, you guys could give two shits about him. After Kobe, all of a sudden he's the shiznit who took Kobe to the Finals. He couldn't even garner 1 playoff game win without Kobe. :lmao

You weren't watching the same games. Pau was defeated before the series started. That's how we knew about his gf fucking shannon brown.

[Latarian Milton]

dirk, duncan and KG are the only current players im gonna pick for the top 10 PFs of all time. malone and barkley deserve to be there as well, and bird is a lock too if he's regarded as a PF rather than a SF. the rest 4 positions will go to old-school basketballers who played predominantly in the 60s and 70s, i haven't watched much of their games so im not gonna make any selections from them based on little knowledge. rodman & ben wallace were both defensive elites back in their days and probably also deserve nominations here but i don't think any top10 list should include any players who have little-none offensive game tbh. so here's the list of my picks for the top 10 PFs all time, in no specific order

dirk
duncan
KG
bird
barkley
malone
some old-school PFs from 70s and 60s

[FkLA]

KG was almost every bit as good as Timmy during their primes. The only knock on him was that he couldnt get out of the first round for a while but that had alot more to do with his #2 being guys like Wally and Troy Hudson than him being a loser. Any time he had talent comparable to what Timmy has had with Manu/Tony whether it be Casell/Spree or Pierce/Ray/Rondo he has made deep playoff runs or won the title. He put up double-doubles at a higher rate than even TD, he was just as dominant defensively, and his numbers were just as good (better actually out of necessity). If he had given up on Minny sooner instead of trying to be loyal no way would any retards dare compare Dirk to him. He was the best player on that 2008 title team too, if you dont think that youre stupid and a mavfan.

I wont speak much about Chuck or Malone since I only saw the end of their careers, but anyone who thinks KG and TD arent the best of this era are fucking retards tbh.

[racm]

Serious question: Did Malone have a playoff run where he decided he wanted a ring and NO ONE was gonna stop him?

Kobe? No, he got blown out as 110-82 and 122-86 show.
LeBron? He wilted in the Finals.
Kidd? I don't even know what he did in the 2003 Finals.

Dirk and Duncan have that over Malone.

And consider that the 2011 Mavs and 2003 Spurs were composed of over the hill vets and players nobody wanted (old Kidd, Chandler fell out of the rotation in Charlotte due to injuries, while the Spurs had a soon-to-retire Robinson, a rookie Ginobili, a sophomore Parker, Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson before they were famous).

[FkLA]

I love Dirk and his 2011 run was amazing ...but #2?!! GTFO

Ive noticed that if theres someone that loves swallowing his load almost as much as mavfan its the spurfans on ST tbh.

I mean Dirk is a nice guy and KG is kind of a bitch, but that doesnt make Dirk the better player. :lol

[FkLA]

And consider that the 2011 Mavs and 2003 Spurs were composed of over the hill vets and players nobody wanted (old Kidd, Chandler fell out of the rotation in Charlotte due to injuries, while the Spurs had a soon-to-retire Robinson, a rookie Ginobili, a sophomore Parker, Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson before they were famous).

Shut the fuck up you dumbass. TD was both the offense and the anchor of the defense for that 2003 team. Dirk was the 5th best defender in their starting line-up. Go ahead and predictably bring up Diaw>Lee so you can feel better about your retarded take too you dumbfuck.

And who gives a shit if Tyson was often injured or had fallen out of the rotation in Charlotte, when he was arguably the best defender in the NBA in 2011 and the main reason why the Mavs made the jump from being the proverbial regular season champs to winning a title. The Mavs were well known soft chokers prior to his arrival, and Big Daddy Tyson himself said that.

[Latarian Milton]

racm needs to eat at least 1,000 more tacos to become a real "dumbfuck" tbh

[FkLA]

racm needs to eat at least 1,000 more tacos to become a real "dumbfuck" tbh

http://a4cgr.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/illegal-aliens.jpg

[Latarian Milton]

Shut the fuck up you dumbass. TD was both the offense and the anchor of the defense for that 2003 team. Dirk was the 5th best defender in their starting line-up. Go ahead and predictably bring up Diaw>Lee so you can feel better about your retarded take too you dumbfuck.

And who gives a shit if Tyson was often injured or had fallen out of the rotation in Charlotte, when he was arguably the best defender in the NBA in 2011 and the main reason why the Mavs made the jump from being the proverbial regular season champs to winning a title. The Mavs were well known soft chokers prior to his arrival, and Big Daddy Tyson himself said that.
that was like the first season in 5-6 years in which he didn't miss 20+ games if i remember correct. dude was a huge asset of the 2011' team w/o a doubt but no one could make sure at that point of time that he would continue to maintain such consistency and durability. TC had a history of being injury prone and the mavs FO must have taken everything into consideration before making the decision to let him walk imho. it might look a poor decision in hindsight, but at that point of time no one could prophesy it tbh

[Latarian Milton]

im thinking that TC's expiring contract was also a big element that encouraged them mavs to trade for him, instead of other realistic targets who were better overall but had longer contracts (like iggy), and they didn't expect this move to crank out such big results tbh. he was regarded as nothing but a short-term measure by the mavs FO and their fans upon his arrival. it's like you won a 1m prize in lottery with horseshit luck, but you can't expect it to happen a 2nd time. mavs were lucky to have finally won it, and they picked the low-risk option for the sake of the team's future imho. cuban had every right to choose what he throught was the less risky option, when he was the man responsible for every penny of the team's expenditure.

[BatManu20]

Show me another power forward who could ever do this:

pP1MV2rSxIU

Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199306010PHO.html

I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.

Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.


Name one other PF who can dominate Shaq in the playoffs... you can't. I love Chuck but Timmy is the greatest PF of all-time, period.

rR6AgYWdoBQ


apxGLs_42nc


Near quadruple-double in the Finals...

nejQMtkyLgY

40 pts and 15 rbs against the Suns in the WCF..

5Vs85hoSSbc

I could post moer, but you get the point. These performances are legendary tbh. Just look at the dominance.

[TDfan2007]

Show me another power forward who could ever do this:

pP1MV2rSxIU

Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199306010PHO.html

I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.

Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.

You're cherry-picking stats, so now I will. Timmy is second only to Wilt in most playoff 40pts 15rb 5ast games.

If we're going by both ends of the court, KG and Timmy are the top 2. Timmy gets the nod due to intangibles, greater dominance, and carrying that 2003 team to a title.

Timmy
KG
Barkley/Malone
Dirk
McHale
meh...

[LkrFan]

MJ did not need 6 to be greater than Kobe, but hee needed those to surpass Jabbar, Russell and Magic ...
I get your point you only need one to validate greatness but to seperate the best of the best rings DO matter
I have a hard time with the notion that KAJ is not the true GOAT. The media loves MJ. KAJ? Not so much. That's probably the difference tbh.

[mercos]

I have a hard time with the notion that KAJ is not the true GOAT. The media loves MJ. KAJ? Not so much. That's probably the difference tbh.

KAJ has a strong case when media bias is tuned out. He played a far more important position, won just as many championships, is the game's all time leading scorer, the list goes on and on. The biggest advantage MJ had over KAJ is in killer instinct. Jordan was an assassin. When you throw out the bias, it is an interesting debate though.

The debate over power forward is not interesting at all though. Duncan is head and shoulders above the rest of the field. On top of more championships than the other contenders, his teams have been consistently excellent and he is the main reason. He plays both sides of the ball at an elite level. He is also clutch. The only debate that makes sense is if Duncan is a power forward or not. If you do consider him one, this one is a laugher.

1. Tim Duncan
2. KG
3. Charles Barkley
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Karl Malone

[I. Hustle]

KAJ has a strong case when media bias is tuned out. He played a far more important position, won just as many championships, is the game's all time leading scorer, the list goes on and on. The biggest advantage MJ had over KAJ is in killer instinct. Jordan was an assassin. When you throw out the bias, it is an interesting debate though.

The debate over power forward is not interesting at all though. Duncan is head and shoulders above the rest of the field. On top of more championships than the other contenders, his teams have been consistently excellent and he is the main reason. He plays both sides of the ball at an elite level. He is also clutch. The only debate that makes sense is if Duncan is a power forward or not. If you do consider him one, this one is a laugher.

1. Tim Duncan
2. KG
3. Charles Barkley
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Karl Malone

I guess I am just a homer like Mecos because I agree. Good job, Mecos. Mecos

[dunkman]

The Mailman was a better player then Chuck, individually, had more team success, more durable, played solid defense, the only thing Chuck did better was rebound and not by much. Chuck was a playoffs choker too, missed the playoffs and got traded in his prime 2 times, couldn't win with Dr. J/Moses, or with Hakeem/Drexler or with Hakeem/Pippen.

[ambchang]

For me, it's probably easier to put PFs in tiers, the players within the tiers are relatively interchangeable, and you can flip them around based on arguments and preferences, but between tiers, there is an obvious difference between their caliber.

Tier 1: Duncan
Anchor on offense and defense for 4 championships. Great leader, versatile, easy to build around. Successful with multiple iterations of teams. His 2003 playoff run was astounding, one of the best playoff run of all time.

Tier 2: Nowitzki
Unconventional PF, one of the best of all time offensively. Average defensively, but very underrated throughout his career. Leads by example. Relatively difficult to build around due to his defensive weakness and unorthodox offensive game, but once the right guys are assembled around him, he rung.

Garnett
Fantastic defensively (though slightly overrated as the years go by), very good offensively. Great passer, loyal teammate, fake tough guy. Lack of a go-to offensive game limits him. He would have never, and have never, won a title as the lead offensive guy on the team.

Barkley
Monster on offense, but could be a ball-stopper and hold on to the ball for too long. Sieve on defense, unless when he wants to play, then he becomes quite capable. Dominant rebounder, dominant inside scorer, effective offensively out to three point line. Can be a fantastic passer, runs the floor extremely well, one of the most unique physical specimen the league has ever seen.

Tier 3:
Karl Malone
Great finisher, quite a bit overrated on that end as he feasted off of John Stockton, who had more responsibilities creating offense for the Jazz as Malone did. One of the dirtiest and fakest players of all time. Very good defensively, especially late in his career. Known chocker. Confirmed pedophile.

Kevin McHale
Best low post finisher of all time, absolutely unstoppable in the low blocks. Could be better if not for a season and a half of his prime lost to leg injuries. Great defensive player. Bad passer. Doesn’t know when to dominate a game.

Tier 4:
Elvin Hayes
Great offensive player, horrible defensive player. Ball hog.

Dennis Rodman
Best of the best defensively, easily top 3 all time defender, if not tops ever, can defend inside or out. Mentally unstable, requires a strong and wiling head coach to coddle him. Willingly sacrifices wins for fame when he decides to mentally check out. Could be a decent offensive player, but decided not to.

Dave Cowens
More a C than a PF, and he played during the dark ages of the league, so doesn’t get much props. But a fiery competitor, fierce rebounder, and very difficult to guard

Adrian Dantley
Officially a SF, but he was pretty much, at least offensively, the Barkley before Barkley. Unstoppable on offense, uses his lower body well to establish position. Great at drawing fouls. Black hole on offense, questionable on defense. He was essentially disposable after pedophile came into prominence in Utah.

Honourable Mention:

Dave DeBusschere
Enforcer, rough and tough defensive player, slightly overrated offensively. I always thought he wouldn’t even be in the conversion if he never played in NY.

Bob Petit
Old era, not too familiar

Dolph Schayes
See above

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

1. Duncan. I hate to just hang it on the rings argument but while a lot of guys had an empty trophy cases thanks to MJ Duncan led teams to four finals in an era where the West was no lessed stacked than it was in the mid 90s.

2. Malone. He's a sack of shit, but he was an effective one on both ends of the court for a lot of years. I give him the edge on Chuck for two reasons: Malone was better on D (the fact that he nearly murdered people doing it is a matter for the courts) and he was an ironman. By Chuck's own admission he wasn't much of a defender and his years with the Rockets were marred by injuries that his weight exacerbated. Outside of the Mailman's last gasp for a ring he aged pretty damn well and even in 2004 he guarded Duncan one on one about as well as anyone has.

3. Barkley. If we were to just boil it down to ranking guys in their prime, for just one season I'd probably put Chuck in the number two slot. He took a set of physical gifts comparable to guys like Malik Rose and could just take over the entire damn court at will it seemed. The best way I could remember it is that when he went into beast mode out there it looked like an old college game where you'd see one sure fire lottery pick on the court with 9 nobodies. Every offensive possession ran through him, every rebound ended up in his hands.

4. Garnett. Burns me to say it. I think I may have actually ranked Dirk ahead of him at some point on this board in the past. If that's the case I apologize. Chances are this discussion will arise again in six months and I'll flip flop again. I post mainly from work and I drink on the job. Keeping this stuff straight gets tricky. My reasoning today: Garnett's a good scorer and great defender, Dirk's an elite scorer who only in recent years rose to something better than an awful defender.

5. Dirk. It's Barkley/Malone all over again. If I could just pick a guy for one season I'd probably put Dirk's best ahead of KG's. The way he put the Mavs on his back for that championship run was about as good an individual postseason was something special.

6. Your mother, Trebek! Oh ho ho ho ho ho! The rest of the names that generally round out these lists are all too before my time for me to look at the stats and make any meaningful judgment. McHale seems like a respectable pick mostly because the comparison that I heard so often in Duncan's early years from some smart folks is that he had the "best pure post game since McHale". Also, funny on Cheers.

I don't know if Marcus "Funky Bunk" Dupree is an actual human being who played in the ABA or a created character my roommate made on NBA Street, but I'll rank him #7. Dude could flat out ball and his fro was epic.

#8 actually does go to Trebek's mother. Naismith (a Canadian) died late in 1939. Alex was born in July of 1940. It is widely believed that his last act on this earth was to sire the future Jeopardy host. With many of Canada's men answering Britain's call to arms in the early years of World War II the Canadian basketball leagues turned to female players to keep things going. Imbued with the seed of the game's founder Trebek's mom revolutionized the game and in the process became what many believe to be the first power forward of all time. True story.

#9. McAdoo. Fun to say. Good enough for me.

#10. Rasheed Wallace, if for no other reason than all the joy he brought to all our lives.

[ALVAREZ6]

1. Duncan
2. KG/Malone
3. KG/Malone
4. Barkley/Dirk
5. Barkley/Dirk

[ALVAREZ6]

I think each ring is exponentially less important than the last. Honestly, I don't say MJ>Kobe because 6>5. There's all sorts of reasons. Even if Kobe rings a 6th time, I wouldnt put him up there with MJ. I think once you win it 2-3 times, you've proven yourself plenty. Look at the NFL, for example. Marino is excluded off every "GOAT" qb list because he never won. Peyton has 1 superbowl win, and people are glad to put him up there with the all time greats. People will say Elway > Brady even though Elway has 2 and Brady has 3. Winning the first is the big one, which is what guys like Dirk, Pierce, KG, Bron (currently have) that validates themselves. Winning again just goes to show it wasn't a 1 year fluke. But once you already have multiple rings, your point has been proven.

Its like, winning a game by 1 says you squeaked out, but bettered them. Winning by 10 says you had a comfy win. But is there a big difference between winning by 30 or winning by 40?
Bingo. Rings should count in arguments for rankings to an extent. It shouldn't be the whole argument. Was Bill Russell 5.5 times better than Hakeem Olajuwon? I know if I had to choose one for my franchise, I'm no doubt taking Hakeem.

[ALVAREZ6]

spurs_fan_in_exile (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=536) with the goods :tu

Duncan is clear #1 with 2-5 being very hard for me to choose, and I didn't watch most of these guys in their prime. There are always 2 big things to consider when making GOAT/all-time best positional rankings, and they should be clarified before even beginning, or perhaps doing several lists with different criteria.

1. Best player throughout career or best single season performance/best prime
2. Best relative to their competition vs. best raw player

In regards to bullet #2, from the perspective of comparing the legends to the competition they faced, it doesn't get much better than Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell. Would either be able to stop Shaq in his prime, or Hakeem? Fuck no. Maybe Wilt. Maybe. Similarly, if you look at pictures of Pete Maravich and Bob Cousy, it's very hard to imagine them being able to even start in today's NBA, let alone be superstars. Of course there are so many factors here, the evolution of sports as multi-million dollar industries, increasing competition, sports science, training, etc. From a raw player perspective, it doesn't get much better than Lebron James. Maybe if he also had a jumper like Durant, but his jumper still is much improved.

In the PF case, interestingly enough most of the players we are discussing for top 5 all played within the same 20 years or so. But I hate naming a sole GOAT in sports when you have extremely different eras and positions. I don't know how you can say Jordan, Russell, Hakeem, Kareem, eventually LeBron are any greater than the other. I prefer to lump them in a plural GOATs list, and compare players within their positions.

[FkLA]

Maybe once the fresh scent of 2011 wears off more people will realize how stupid it is/was to ever rate Dirk #2 or over KG. Looks like some niggas have already come to that realization. :tu

[King Emmanuel]

Duncan was a center.

[callo1]

'06-'07 was the season he became a full time C. Sure, they pretended Oberto and Elson were the C's, but they pretend everyone opposite him is, from Jeremy Richardson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801210CHA.html) to Diaw.

Never really understood the never ending "Is Duncan a PF or a C?" debate. Quite clearly, he's a C, who primarily played PF his first nine seasons because the Spurs had an all-time great C already in place when he was drafted. So what? Was Rodriguez not the greatest SS of all time because he was over sized for the position, had a unique skill set for it and later moved to 3B?

1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Garnett
4. Barkley
5. Nowitzki
6. McHale
7. Gasol (Let's not pretend he's too not a C, who's masqueraded as a PF for the majority of his career)
8. Pettit
9. Hayes
10. Webber

Great points here. I agree 100%.

I would shuffle the order a bit.

Duncan
Malone
Barkley
Dirk
The rest looks good

The most impressive thing TD did in his career is win a ring with AJ as the starting pg, that in an of itself is amazing.

To be able to win it all again by leading a completely different set of players to the promised land is almost as equally impressive.

[LakeShow]

Let me ask Spurs Fan's this question, What is your argument for Duncan as the best excluding titles? Don't give me this bullshit that you have to because there are a many of great players to never win a title. Titles are a team accomplishment. If you want to go with titles you have to go with Robert Horry. I'm talking about numbers. I'm not a big fan of Malone's but I can not overlook the astronomical numbers that he put up. He's clearly the best PF to ever play.

P.S. Duncan's a PF/C

[TD 21]

LOL at Pau at 7 ...Never saw Hayes or Petit but pretty sure the big E in his peak was a better player than Pau. Pau vs. Cwebb is interesting. Despite PAu's great skill-set not sure P{au is better but rings matter a lot to me ... and PAu was the second option on 3 Finals teams winning two.

Not sure how Malone gets the nod over Tim for some people. But if we consider Duncan a center that is amuch more interesting debate I give him the slight edge on Shaq ... behind Kareem out of guys I have seen.

I never saw them play either and generally speaking, I wouldn't rely almost entirely on advanced stats, but in this case, it's not only about the best I can do but I also think it's appropriate given the significant gap between all three. That being said, upon further review, I'd probably swap Pettit and Gasol, but not Hayes.

As I alluded to, Duncan should be considered as both a PF ('97-'06) and a C ('06-present). He's clearly the best in the former and at the very least, amongst the top five in the latter.

[Brunodf]

Duncan
Malone
Dirk
McHale
Barkley
KG

[FkLA]

Let me ask Spurs Fan's this question, What is your argument for Duncan as the best excluding titles? Don't give me this bullshit that you have to because there are a many of great players to never win a title. Titles are a team accomplishment. If you want to go with titles you have to go with Robert Horry. I'm talking about numbers. I'm not a big fan of Malone's but I can not overlook the astronomical numbers that he put up. He's clearly the best PF to ever play.

P.S. Duncan's a PF/C

The impact you have on a game has to do with alot more than just numbers. :lol

Duncan was the better post player that drew more attention and opened up the floor for his teammates. A good portion of Malones points came off of assisted midrange jumpers off the pick and roll. Duncan was also the better defender. Not that Malone was a slouch in either of those areas but Duncan was just better.

[Brunodf]

Let me ask Spurs Fan's this question, What is your argument for Duncan as the best excluding titles? Don't give me this bullshit that you have to because there are a many of great players to never win a title. Titles are a team accomplishment. If you want to go with titles you have to go with Robert Horry. I'm talking about numbers. I'm not a big fan of Malone's but I can not overlook the astronomical numbers that he put up. He's clearly the best PF to ever play.

P.S. Duncan's a PF/C

Malone is a proven choker, had a top 5 player of his generation and couldn't win shit, had a top 3 coach and couldn't win shit, always underperformed in the playoffs.

Duncan is a much better defender/rebounder/all around player

[spurraider21]

Maybe once the fresh scent of 2011 wears off more people will realize how stupid it is/was to ever rate Dirk #2 or over KG. Looks like some niggas have already come to that realization. :tu

this needed to be said, although that 2011 postseason run by dirk was one for the ages. one of the best in recent memory

[LakeShow]

The impact you have on a game has to do with alot more than just numbers. :lol

Duncan was the better post player that drew more attention and opened up the floor for his teammates. A good portion of Malones points came off of assisted midrange jumpers off the pick and roll. Duncan was also the better defender. Not that Malone was a slouch in either of those areas but Duncan was just better.

You think Malone didn't have an impact on the game? C'mon

Malone was an excellent post player. It doesn't matter if he had a good passer playing with him, he still has to catch the ball and put it in and he did that with the best of them.

[LakeShow]

Malone is a proven choker, had a top 5 player of his generation and couldn't win shit, had a top 3 coach and couldn't win shit, always underperformed in the playoffs.

Duncan is a much better defender/rebounder/all around player

He also had Michael Jordan and the Bulls to contend with.

[LakeShow]

...and of course his defense was better and he was a better rebounder he was a 7 foot center guarding 6'-6" - 6'9" power forwards.

[100%duncan]

PF or C, hes still the player of the decade tbh.
'
:flag:

This is the shit. Fuck yo positions, clowns.

[Koolaid_Man]

...and of course his defense was better and he was a better rebounder he was a 7 foot center guarding 6'-6" - 6'9" power forwards.

whitemamba and Lkrfan - Mad props homies yall killed it in this thread...DMC scrambling for cover on the Gasol hypocrisy...no real way he can get around that one...:lol

Nice job fellas

[FkLA]

You think Malone didn't have an impact on the game? C'mon

Malone was an excellent post player. It doesn't matter if he had a good passer playing with him, he still has to catch the ball and put it in and he did that with the best of them.

I never said that. Malone was no slouch in the post but you cant seriously think he was better than Duncan in that area.


...and of course his defense was better and he was a better rebounder he was a 7 foot center guarding 6'-6" - 6'9" power forwards.

Being so long helped him alot, for sure. In a way taller players kind of have an advantage since they can have a bigger impact (he can protect the basket for example which Malone wasnt very good at other than delivering hard fouls) but you cant seriously be holding the fact that Timmy is tall against him. :lol

[LakeShow]

I never said that. Malone was no slouch in the post but you cant seriously think he was better than Duncan in that area.

Well I've seen them both play and I cant seriously say Duncan was better.

[FkLA]

Well I've seen them both play and I cant seriously say Duncan was better.

Malone was better and more dominant in the post than Timmy ?

[LakeShow]

Malone was better and more dominant in the post than Timmy ?

I didn't say that. I would call it a draw. They both suck equally. I hate them! :lol

[Brunodf]

He also had Michael Jordan and the Bulls to contend with.
Holy shit, he lost to MJ in all his 19 seasons

[LakeShow]

Holy shit, he lost to MJ in all his 19 seasons

He lost to Magic and the Lakers as well.

[Brunodf]

He lost to Magic and the Lakers as well.

So your point is: Malone is better because he LOST to great players:lmao

[mercos]

Let me ask Spurs Fan's this question, What is your argument for Duncan as the best excluding titles? Don't give me this bullshit that you have to because there are a many of great players to never win a title. Titles are a team accomplishment. If you want to go with titles you have to go with Robert Horry. I'm talking about numbers. I'm not a big fan of Malone's but I can not overlook the astronomical numbers that he put up. He's clearly the best PF to ever play.

P.S. Duncan's a PF/C

If you toss out titles and go strictly on numbers, then Malone is also ahead of Michael Jordan. He scored nearly 5,000 more points than MJ, and did it with almost 500 fewer three pointers. I doubt you are going to find many people that say Malone is better than Jordan. Stats can be padded. Malone was an all time great player, but his skill set was not as good as Duncan's. He could not affect the game the way Duncan can. The Spurs have remained an elite team no matter who they put around Duncan. He is the one constant.

[LakeShow]

So your point is: Malone is better because he LOST to great players:lmao

No, my point is that the Lakers and Bulls had better teams.

[Brunodf]

No, my point is that the Lakers and Bulls had better teams.
Lakers/Pistons/Suns at some point had better teams than the Spurs, Duncan still got his rings.

[Latarian Milton]

malone was a good player back in the day but i wouldn't put him anywhere above duncan or dirk tbh. malone needed great teammates (like stockton) in order for him to garner decent stats while dirk could carry his team to the finals playing with sorry asses like smokey, stack and dampier.

[da_suns_fan]

Interesting that there hasnt been a power forward to come out in the last decade to even sniff top ten.

The closest we have is Chris Bosh or Amare.

[mercos]

No one is playing the low post game anymore. All the big buys want to be perimeter players now. Just look at Lebron (6'8" or 6'9") and Durant (6'10").

[TDMVPDPOY]

even if you take away duncans 4 titles

he still appeared in 4 championship series
had deeper runs
better rs records...

so what do the other clowns have besides better accumulated stats that have earn them nothing?

[spurraider21]

:lol people holding Tim's height against him

if kobe was 4 foot 6 he wouldn't be as good either

[ambchang]

Nowitzki is pretty much getting underrated in this thread by some. He is most definitely in the Garnett/Barkley group in terms of effectiveness and dominance on the court throughout his career.

Garnett led the league in RS win shares twice, Nowitzki led the league in win shares twice, right after Garnett did. Nowitzki was also ranked #2 thrice and #3 once. In PO win shares, Nowitzki was #1 in 2006, ranked #3 in 2011, and #4 in 2003. Garnett was never ranked in the top 5, making #6 twice and #7 once. Note that the two years he ranked #6, either Rondo or both Rondo and Pierce was ranked above Garnett.

While Garnett never did, playing in the same era. Nowitzki was the more potent offensive force. Better shooter (thought Garnett was no slouch), better driver to the basket, even had a comparable post up game (that little turn around of Dirk was money most times). Needless to say, Garnett was the better defender, ranking #2 in DWS 4 times, #4 twice, and #5 once, but for all the defensive sieve comments about Nowitzki, he actually ranked #6 twice in his career.

The biggest "weakness" in Nowitzki's game is how unorthodox it was, and that he required a specific set of players around him to be dominant. He requires a defensive unit around him. Players like Chandler and Kidd fits in with that perfectly, and needs some shooters to nail open shots that Dirk created. However, Garnett's game is clearly one of a 2nd wheel offensively. He can be the defensive anchor on a championship team, no doubt, but his lack of a go-to game can never allow him being the offensive center of a championship team. The few years Garnett was successful in the playoffs, he had scorers like Pierce, Sprewell and/or Cassell playing with him.

In this league, it is easier to find defensive role players than it is to find offensive players of the caliber of 2010 Pierce of 2003 Sprewell.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

:lol people holding Tim's height against him

if kobe was 4 foot 6 he wouldn't be as good either

And if Chuck had been as big as Zo he'd have been illegal in 7 states (including Puerto Rico).

[ambchang]

This Karl Malone – Tim Duncan argument is laughable, especially coming from Laker fans who has continued to use the 5>4 argument over and over again, and now, suddenly, is pulling the “Championship is a team accomplishment” card.

While I agree championship is a team accomplishment, a player’s value ultimately rests on how valuable he is to his team. Duncan has demonstrated year after year, from 1998 to around 2006 that he was the most important part of the Spurs offense. 4-down was so successful, championship-level successful despite its predictability and repetitiveness purely because of Duncan’s dominance on the offensive side.

On the other hand, Malone was a finisher on the famous pick-and-roll. He was one of the best big man in running the floor, and he has a fantastic mid-range jumper, but those are not championship leading moves, and more importantly, they are Stockton reliant. There is but a few PGs in the history of the league who can run the pick and roll like Stockton did, and yet there are hundreds and hundreds who can throw a simple entry pass to Duncan to start a four-down offense. In other words, Duncan creates the offense, Malone was, in many cases, a recipient. We saw how effective Malone was in the finals when the best perimeter defense in the league (the Bulls) decided to shut down the Stockton created offense.

To top it off, an over-the-hill Rodman was able to shut down Malone in the finals, while Duncan was able to defeat the Wallace brothers (two of the best defensive players in the early 00s). The Spurs offense was slow-paced, but consistent, and that speaks to how unstoppable Duncan is. You know what he will do, you know what the Spurs will do, but they still put up 75 to 90 points a game. On the other hand, Malone could be stopped, you trap Stockton, the Jazz puts up 59 points in the finals.

On defense, while Duncan had an all-world defender in Robinson all the up to 2003, and a defensive wizard in Bowen later on, the Spurs were perennially one of the best defensive teams in the league. In fact, numbers wise, the Spurs had 3 or 4 of the top defensive teams in league history. The Jazz, on the other hand, despite having defensive players like Eaton and Stockton, have always been middle of the road on defense. Duncan was the much better team defender, much better weak side defender, and moderately better one on one defender.

Not to mention, Duncan was the better rebounder, better teammate (he doesn’t go hunt little Mexican girls), not a pedophile, can handle the ball better, is more versatile (played SF in his younger days, played PF during his prime, and C late in his career), and doesn’t kill animals for fun.

[ambchang]

From a statistical standpoint, the numbers breakdown as follows:

Karl Malone had zero seasons where he was ranked top 5 in offensive ratings, the same as Duncan.

For defensive rating, Malone was ranked 3rd once, Duncan was #1 four times, #2 four times, #3 thrice, and #4 once.

Offensive win shares, Malone was ranked #1 once, #2 five times, while Duncan was only ranked #1 once.

Defensive win shares, Malone was ranked #2 and #4 three times each, while Duncan was first 5 times, 2nd twice, 3rd four times, and 4th once.

In win shares, Malone was #1, #2 and #5 twice each, and #3 and #4 thrice each, while Duncan was ranked #1 twice, and 3rd and 4th twice each.

Looking at the numbers, you would think that, well, Duncan was way better than Malone defensively, but Malone made up for it with the offensive numbers and win share. However, you have to take into account the presence of Stockton. You are talking about a guy with an offensive rating that ranked him #1 in the league (when legends like Jordan, Magic and Isiah were in their primes) three times, 2nd twice, 3rd once, 4th 3 times, and 5th once. This further supports the observation that Stockton was the Jazz’s offense, not Malone. Malone was a finisher, we all know that, but so was Corey Maggette, but no one in their right minds will say Maggette is the better scorer, than say, Antonio McDyess because Maggette’s got more career points.

[LakeShow]

[QUOTE=FkLA;6427382[FONT=Verdana] Being so long helped him alot, for sure. In a way taller players kind of have an advantage since they can have a bigger impact (he can protect the basket for example which Malone wasnt very good at other than delivering hard fouls) but you cant seriously be holding the fact that Timmy is tall against him. :lol

NO, the Twin towers was an excellent lineup. Having 2-7 foot centers instead of a PF was a match-up nightmare for 95% of the league. The Lakers used it with Gasol/Bynum and won back to back titles with it. Does that mean that Gasol should be considered the greatest PF?

You're focusing on the wrong thing. CENTER is the focus. You can not compare Malone and Duncan because Duncan played Center throughout his career. You could put All of the PF/C in the PF's category and they would all make the same claim that they were better rebounders and defenders than any power forward. Why? because they were centers and that's what centers do. I understand Duncan wanting to be classified as a PF for awards because at center he would rank in the Top 15 of the greatest centers to play the game. If you rank them regardless of position Duncan would be top 25.

Basketball reference shows Timmie as playing half his career at Center, Pop says Tim Duncan played all of his career at Center and this is his rank amongst his peers.

The best PF/C"S in NBA History,

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Elvin Hayes
3. Bob McAdoo
4. kevin garnett
5. Tim duncan

Honorable mention: Jerry Lucas, Paul Gasol, Derrick D. Coleman, Antonio McDyess. Daniel Ricardo Manning
Kevin McHale, Bill Cartwright. Marcus Camby, Rasheed Abdul Wallace, Jack Sikma, Paul Silas, etc.

I listen to spurs fans say that Malone was a big choker, NEWSFLASH: So was Tim Duncan. You could never count on him
in a close game or depend on him winning or tying the game at the line. He was a big time choker who couldn't shoot free-throws.

Tim Duncan is/was a great player with a stellar career but he is not the GOAT of anything.

Wait a minute, I take that back, he was the goat at this. When I think of Tim Duncan, this is the first thing that comes to my mind.

LINK (http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/04/word-of-day-duncan-face.html)

[jsandiego]

[QUOTE=FkLA;6427382[FONT=Verdana] Being so long helped him alot, for sure. In a way taller players kind of have an advantage since they can have a bigger impact (he can protect the basket for example which Malone wasnt very good at other than delivering hard fouls) but you cant seriously be holding the fact that Timmy is tall against him. :lol

NO, the Twin towers was an excellent lineup. Having 2-7 foot centers instead of a PF was a match-up nightmare for 95% of the league. The Lakers used it with Gasol/Bynum and won back to back titles with it. Does that mean that Gasol should be considered the greatest PF?

You're focusing on the wrong thing. CENTER is the focus. You can not compare Malone and Duncan because Duncan played Center throughout his career. You could put All of the PF/C in the PF's category and they would all make the same claim that they were better rebounders and defenders than any power forward. Why? because they were centers and that's what centers do. I understand Duncan wanting to be classified as a PF for awards because at center he would rank in the Top 15 of the greatest centers to play the game. If you rank them regardless of position Duncan would be top 25.

Basketball reference shows Timmie as playing half his career at Center, Pop says Tim Duncan played all of his career at Center and this is his rank amongst his peers.

The best PF/C"S in NBA History,

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Elvin Hayes
3. Bob McAdoo
4. kevin garnett
5. Tim duncan

Honorable mention: Jerry Lucas, Paul Gasol, Derrick D. Coleman, Antonio McDyess. Daniel Ricardo Manning
Kevin McHale, Bill Cartwright. Marcus Camby, Rasheed Abdul Wallace, Jack Sikma, Paul Silas, etc.

I listen to spurs fans say that Malone was a big choker, NEWSFLASH: So was Tim Duncan. You could never count on him
in a close game or depend on him winning or tying the game at the line. He was a big time choker who couldn't shoot free-throws.

Tim Duncan is/was a great player with a stellar career but he is not the GOAT of anything.

Wait a minute, I take that back, he was the goat at this. When I think of Tim Duncan, this is the first thing that comes to my mind.

LINK (http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/04/word-of-day-duncan-face.html)
1997-2003: David Robinson was Center
2003-2007: Rasho Nesterovic, Francisco Elson, Fabricio Oberto were starting Centers

It was only in recent years, where Matt Bonner or DeJuan Blair started where you can argue he was a Center. Enough already. Either that, or Gasol was a Center too. So was Charles Oakley, right? I guess Dirk was a Center in 2011 because he started using his post game to win ball games?

Also, after all that garbage, you rank KG above Duncan in your "Best PF/Cs in NBA History", and Duncan is "Top 25" all-time?!? [/credibility]

Duncan is Top 10 all-time, and PF GOAT. He's the greatest winner outside of maybe the 1960s Celtics, Magic Johnson, and Manu Ginobili, that we've ever seen.

[ambchang]

Back in my days, trolling used to be an art. You really have to put thought in it. Put out some borderline controversial points and bait those unaware. Nowadays, kids just act like full on retards to get a reaction. Times have changed.

[spurraider21]

NBA positions have always been muddied up. Official position names were added to the game to make it easier for fans to follow. But if you think every team has 1 point guard, 1 shooting guard, 1 small forward, 1 power forward, and 1 center at all times, lets dig into it. For the first 6 seasons of Duncan's career, arguably his 6 most productive (and encompassing both his MVP seasons), he started alongside Robinson, who would never be confused for a forward. So Duncan was a power forward then. In the 03-04 season, Duncan started next to Rasho, a Center. The following year, we were starting Francisco Elson until Nazr Mohammed was brought in via trade. Oberto was the starting center the next year, the 06-07 championship year. So we've already concluded that in all of Tim's MVP Seasons, all his championship seasons, his Finals MVP seasons... he was playing power forward the whole time. Oberto was also starting during the 07-08 year. In 08-09 the Spurs actually brought in and started Kurt Thomas. If you are going to confuse Robinson, Elson, Oberto, Nesterovich, or Kurt Thomas (in his time as a Spur) as forwards, then you need to rethink this.

The Spurs then had 1 season with Bonner starting (gag) and brought in Blair who started awhile until McDyess started in the playoffs. Now Blair is tiny as hell, but he still plays center. The guy can't shoot from further than 6 feet.

Now you can break down the way Tim plays. He's got an awesome back to the basket post game. Very center like. You know who else had a great back to the basket game? Kevin McHale, who Duncan is often compared to, as far as the array of post moves. McHale was never confused for a center. Tim is also known for his face up game (the bank shot, the drive to hook), and his pick and roll/pick and pop game where for his entire career he has comfortably been hitting top of the key jumpers. Not exactly traditional Center-like offense. Now, on defense, its a different story. He's been the primary rim protector in his time in San Antonio, except maybe his first 4 years or so next to Robinson, who was the defensive ace. Tim didn't usually guard Shaq, although he did at times. Now Tim is playing next to Tiago, who pretty much plays exclusively at center on offense.

What you wanna call Tim, a center or a forward? Both make sense, and he really is a tweener (as are a lot of players). If you think every team starts a center and a power forward, then realize that Tim has almost exclusively started next to Centers that could never play forward (with the exception of the Bonner season and the end of last season when Diaw was starting). But Admiral, Rasho, Elson, Mohammed, Oberto, Thomas, and yes even Blair were Centers.

[benefactor]

And if Chuck had been as big as Zo he'd have been illegal in 7 states (including Puerto Rico).
No shit. MDE wouldn't even be a discussion.

[LakeShow]

NBA positions have always been muddied up. Official position names were added to the game to make it easier for fans to follow. But if you think every team has 1 point guard, 1 shooting guard, 1 small forward, 1 power forward, and 1 center at all times, lets dig into it. For the first 6 seasons of Duncan's career, arguably his 6 most productive (and encompassing both his MVP seasons), he started alongside Robinson, who would never be confused for a forward. So Duncan was a power forward then. In the 03-04 season, Duncan started next to Rasho, a Center. The following year, we were starting Francisco Elson until Nazr Mohammed was brought in via trade. Oberto was the starting center the next year, the 06-07 championship year. So we've already concluded that in all of Tim's MVP Seasons, all his championship seasons, his Finals MVP seasons... he was playing power forward the whole time. Oberto was also starting during the 07-08 year. In 08-09 the Spurs actually brought in and started Kurt Thomas. If you are going to confuse Robinson, Elson, Oberto, Nesterovich, or Kurt Thomas (in his time as a Spur) as forwards, then you need to rethink this.

The Spurs then had 1 season with Bonner starting (gag) and brought in Blair who started awhile until McDyess started in the playoffs. Now Blair is tiny as hell, but he still plays center. The guy can't shoot from further than 6 feet.

Now you can break down the way Tim plays. He's got an awesome back to the basket post game. Very center like. You know who else had a great back to the basket game? Kevin McHale, who Duncan is often compared to, as far as the array of post moves. McHale was never confused for a center. Tim is also known for his face up game (the bank shot, the drive to hook), and his pick and roll/pick and pop game where for his entire career he has comfortably been hitting top of the key jumpers. Not exactly traditional Center-like offense. Now, on defense, its a different story. He's been the primary rim protector in his time in San Antonio, except maybe his first 4 years or so next to Robinson, who was the defensive ace. Tim didn't usually guard Shaq, although he did at times. Now Tim is playing next to Tiago, who pretty much plays exclusively at center on offense.

What you wanna call Tim, a center or a forward? Both make sense, and he really is a tweener (as are a lot of players). If you think every team starts a center and a power forward, then realize that Tim has almost exclusively started next to Centers that could never play forward (with the exception of the Bonner season and the end of last season when Diaw was starting). But Admiral, Rasho, Elson, Mohammed, Oberto, Thomas, and yes even Blair were Centers.

Good post. I agree about the positions being muddled up. When doing research for certain players their positions were all over the place. You have some players who never played anything but PF but in their profile, they list them as PF/C. In Duncan's profile they call him a PF, but list him playing half his career as center. ??? I followed Bob Mcadoo's career and they always listed him at 6'11. Now he's 6'9.

I can't agree with the fact that Timmie just played PF when their is all kinds of video evidence that shows different. I find it hard to believe that spurs fans try to deny this. What kind of coach would pop be if he had one of the best pivot men in the game and didn't use him there? I'm willing to bet that there was not one game played where Timmie did not play Center for a spell.

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/10/23/all-star-centers-ballot/index.html

For years, for example, the Spurs have listed Tim Duncan as a power forward, even though everyone on earth knew he was their starting center. And so when it came to All-Star balloting, Duncan would take up a forward spot in a very crowded field of Western Conference stars instead of his logical spot in the middle. This was good for Duncan, who surely would have made his 13 All-Star teams anyway, but it often cost another forward a shot.

Sporting Charts explains Center

Because of his size, the center often positions himself near the basket or in the low post. On a zone defense, the center usually stands in the middle or below the basket. The center is typically chosen to take jump balls. Some of the greatest centers in the NBA include Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hakeem Olajuwon (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/players/250/hakeem-olajuwon/), and Shaquille O'Neal (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/players/847/shaquille-oneal/).

Now take a look at the thread Kool did on dunks on Duncan. http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172180&page=4&p=6428665#post6428665
Forget about the spectacular dunks and focus on the defense. Against the Lakers Timmie always manned the paint playing center and guarding centers. The video with Kobe shows the lakers in a set offense and the spurs setup defense except for 1 fastbreak.

Timmie guarding Shaq, Robinson guarding Grant and Horry
The spurs playing a zone with Timmie at the pivot
Timmie guarding Andrew Bynum while Oberto is at the top of key guarding Brian Cook
Timmie guarding Paul Gasol when he was the only center
Timmie does the Jump balls at the beginning of the game - I can't verify this but the previous article says he does

I will respectfully disagree on that one point and move on.

[Phillip]

What's funny is that Lakeshow is actually a Houston fan who came from a Mavs board and was tired of getting trolled by Spurfans, so he fakes as a Laker fan here so he can troll and seem legit about it.

Unfortunately, he is failing miserably, while others who are doing similar things (Kool, Cubby, etc...) are far more successful, and actually humorous in the process.

[LakeShow]

What's funny is that Lakeshow is actually a Houston fan who came from a Mavs board and was tired of getting trolled by Spurfans, so he fakes as a Laker fan here so he can troll and seem legit about it.

Unfortunately, he is failing miserably, while others who are doing similar things (Kool, Cubby, etc...) are far more successful, and actually humorous in the process.

:lol Whats even funnier is that you're still girlfriend less and spending all your days and nights on this board,Inchworm. Get a life!

[Phillip]

:lol Whats even funnier is that you're still girlfriend less and spending all your days and nights on this board,Inchworm. Get a life!

Married now, actually. It's kinda strange to think that we have gone back and forth for 10 years now, lol. Sometimes I wonder what happened to some of the FWST posters.

Regardless, you are a faggot.

[LakeShow]

Married now, actually. It's kinda strange to think that we have gone back and forth for 10 years now, lol. Sometimes I wonder what happened to some of the FWST posters.

Regardless, you are a faggot.

Yeah right! You're a member of the itty bitty penis committee. Don't no women want you. They rather turn lesbian, their clits are bigger than your dick. Bitch

Yeah, its been a long time, Stretch.

[Phillip]

Yeah right! You're a member of the itty bitty penis committee. Don't no women want you. They rather turn lesbian, their clits are bigger than your dick. Bitch

Yeah, its been a long time, Stretch.

Clever!

Faggot.

[LakeShow]

Clever!

Faggot.

:lol Inchworm married, now that's funny. In your dreams, Bitch!

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Rocketfan pretending to be a Lakerfan in order to troll Spurfan
:lol Doesn't realize his takes suck regardless of fandom
:lol "Malone > Duncan"

[Phillip]

:lol Inchworm married, now that's funny. In your dreams, Bitch!

lol mad about dem rockets

[TDMVPDPOY]

dirk is very underrated, i could care less about his defense as long the other 4 guys can play some sort of D to keep the team defense honest

his offensive game far exceeds what a defense can stop him, just like chucking kobe during his 2 shit years 04/5-05/06

[Arcadian]

I listen to spurs fans say that Malone was a big choker, NEWSFLASH: So was Tim Duncan.

:lmao

Shut up. Just shut the fuck up. Timmy has always been a great clutch performer you fucking moron.

[spurraider21]

If Tim didnt have his face-up game and the shooting range he does, it would be easy to classify him as a Center. He certainly played the part on defense. Although I still remember Robinson, Willis, and even Rose covering shaq while tim was in the game, and I do recall Tim guarding Rasheed, not Big Ben.

[Phillip]

Although I still remember Robinson, Willis, and even Rose covering shaq while tim was in the game

to avoid foul trouble, perhaps?


and I do recall Tim guarding Rasheed, not Big Ben.

thats because you could guard Ben Wallace with any garbage defender and have nothing to worry about.

:rolleyes

[spurraider21]

Point being, I've seen him defend centers and forwards alike. I've seen him defended by forwards plenty. Horry would typically guard Tim at first. If Tim went off, shaq would switch on

[FkLA]

So what is Dirk? Shooting three pointers and mid-range fadeaways isnt really a typical PF. How about SFs like Bron and KD who handle the ball as well and often as a PG? Duncan is definitely a hybrid but so are alot of other great players tbh.

[Lincoln]

So what is Dirk? Shooting three pointers and mid-range fadeaways isnt really a typical PF. How about SFs like Bron and KD who handle the ball as well and often as a PG? Duncan is definitely a hybrid but so are alot of other great players tbh.

After like 08 dirk started becoming more of a post player and shot less 3s until 2011 when Carlisle told him to shoot more from 3

[RudyRay]

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Malone
4. KG
5. McHale
6. Dirk

Yes McHale is better than Dirk. Just didn't need to score as many points cause his teams were well balanced with scorers.

[racm]

So what is Dirk? Shooting three pointers and mid-range fadeaways isnt really a typical PF. How about SFs like Bron and KD who handle the ball as well and often as a PG? Duncan is definitely a hybrid but so are alot of other great players tbh.

How about all-time great players are not constrained by their position in general?

[baseline bum]

McHale was nowhere close to Nowitzki. :lol

McHale was a really nice supporting player, but god he's almost as overrated as Russell.

[Lincoln]

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Malone
4. KG
5. McHale
6. Dirk

Yes McHale is better than Dirk. Just didn't need to score as many points cause his teams were well balanced with scorers.

:lmao :lmao :lmao yes because being a decent 2nd option on a stacked team makes you the 5th best PF of all time