Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Warriors - March 20

[timvp]

Tim Duncan A+
Welcome back, Vintage Timmy. In his best game since The Scare, he was great on both ends. On D, he fiercely guarded the rim, was active when switched and boarded well. On O, he scored from everywhere and passed wonderfully. Overall, he played extremely hard and stayed focused throughout.

Manu Ginobili C+
There was a lot of good and a lot of bad. Good: Best playmaker on the court, authored key plays and had a few great possessions on D. Bad: Decision-making was iffy -- too many turnovers and missed shots. For some reason, he has lacked crispness lately. And, strangely, his basketball IQ is questionable right now.

Kawhi Leonard C+
Very aggressive early; in the first quarter, it looked like he was going to explode. But then he basically disappeared the rest of the way. His defense was solid but not spectacular. His rebounding was spotty. On O, he reverted to his rookie level of attacking.

Danny Green C
I really liked his D for most of the game. He had a couple blatant errors on that end but he was mostly solid. Offensively, he simply tried to do too much. With Parker out, he has to realize his role is going to be limited for the time being. He had some quality plays on O but he was mostly a liability on that end.

Cory Joseph C+
He seems to have hit some sort of wall. Give him credit for taking care of the ball and working his arse off on the defensive end chasing Curry around screens … but he's just not playing with enough oomph right now. He didn't hurt the team tonight but he also made a minimal impact.

Tiago Splitter B+
He was really close to having a great game. I loved that he imposed his will. He didn't shy away from anything on either end. On D, he was throwing around his body. On O, he was constantly looking to make a play. Smooth out some rough edges and this would have been a masterpiece.

Nando De Colo A+
Very impressive. He got the call as the backup point guard and had perhaps his best game of the season. What stood out the most was his D. He was physical and fully utilized his deceptive length and quickness. On O, he played at a sustainable pace and perfectly tiptoed the line between dynamic and reckless.

Boris Diaw B-
He didn't grab a defensive board but I liked his D for the most part. He moved his feet well and allowed the Spurs to extend their pressure -- although his post D was shaky at times. Offensively, he was fine. He stayed involved and made heady plays.

Stephen Jackson C
This game was basically a microcosm of his season. He did decently enough -- other than his inability to shoot for a high enough percentage. He has some all-around skills and some intangibles but to truly be valuable to this team, he's going to have to knock down more shots.

Matt Bonner B+
Hit a pair of three-pointers. He competed on defense. That's about as much as could be asked for in this matchup.

Pop A
Running plays through Duncan at the end was the right call. Handing the reins to De Colo off the bench turned out to be a splendid decision. His shrinking rotation continues to help this team with Parker out. All in all, I don't have much to complain about in what turned out to be a satisfying victory.

[racm]

Blair: DNP-CD. Good to see him benched for a bad matchup (and IMO playing him was the key to the Spurs losing at Oakland earlier this season; well, that, and the team being gassed on the tail end of the RRT).

[spurraider21]

thanks :tu

was hoping kawhi would go beast mode again

[stéphane]

Kinda worried by Manu's performances.
It's not like he has a linear progression.
I really hope that with TP back he can settle in a role he's comfortable with in order to sustain a high level of play.

[Kuestmaster]

It says something that this was Duncan's best game after he just had one of 28-19 and another of 30-12 and 5 blocks. Timmy is amazing.

[racm]

Timmy hasn't had a string of games with at least 25 points and 12 boards since the 2009-10 season.

[hooperflash]

I was lucky to catch the replay of the game, Warriors looked extremely bothered by our team defense. That Oakland homecourt advantage does wonders for them ha!

[Brox6]

Where's Neal?

at least I already have an idea about the game while watching the replay tonight :lol :lol

[racm]

Where's Neal?

at least I already have an idea about the game while watching the replay tonight :lol :lol
DNP - Cannot play D

[spurraider21]

It says something that this was Duncan's best game after he just had one of 28-19 and another of 30-12 and 5 blocks. Timmy is amazing.

:worthy:

[Brox6]

Timmy is the other one who came down with MJ23 from a spaceship that was seen by Pat Riley..:downspin::downspin:

[John B]

Welcome back Spurs defense. I hope we can sustain and use tonight's D as benchmark to prepare for playoffs.

[Thread]

A+. You done good.

I expect like result tomorrow nite. Chop/chop.

[jag]

Tiago beginning to spread his wings. Let him fly, Pop. Let him fly.

[spurraider21]

A+. You done good.

I expect like result tomorrow nite. Chop/chop.
you can also expect the same results 4 straight times in the first round of the playoffs



oh yeah, chop/chop

[benefactor]

It says something that this was Duncan's best game after he just had one of 28-19 and another of 30-12 and 5 blocks. Timmy is amazing.
It's incredible. I'm holding on to every moment.

[Old School 44]

Manu Ginobili C+
There was a lot of good and a lot of bad. Good: Best playmaker on the court, authored key plays and had a few great possessions on D. Bad: Decision-making was iffy -- too many turnovers and missed shots. For some reason, he has lacked crispness lately. And, strangely, his basketball IQ is questionable right now.


Noticed this too. He just seems to be forcing the issue, trying to make the spectacular pass all the time, regardless of the score or the time remaining on the shot clock.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Watching TD is a pleasure, he's like Pops fine wine that keeps getting better somehow.

[pookenstein]

Just a few thoughts:
1. I was a little bit reliefed that Manu started to hit his free throws again. Hope this is a sign of him getting his shooting rythm back.
2. I was happy that Boris didn't block his own dunk at the rim.
3. I hope Kawhi had just an off night and returns asap to the aggressive way he played the last couple of games.
4. Tim motherfucking Duncan!
5. Just because it needs to be said evry once in a while: fuck the Lakers.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Watching TD is a pleasure, he's like Pops fine wine that keeps getting better somehow.

[Strategic]

Kawhi Leonard C+
Very aggressive early; in the first quarter, it looked like he was going to explode. But then he basically disappeared the rest of the way. His defense was solid but not spectacular. His rebounding was spotty. On O, he reverted to his rookie level of attacking.



Hopefully Pop doesn't have something to do with the passiveness.

[polandprzem]

Hopefully Pop doesn't have something to do with the passiveness.
Yup of course it's Pops fault he played passive. :rolleyes

[Thread]

chop/chop

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

[Chomag]

On Manu, I think he is trying to do to much what his Body can no longer do causing him to force everything. His heart is still there but his aging body just isn't

[NASpurs]

How many times are we going to see a failed steal attempt from Manu only to see his man score? This guy is just too erratic right now, I don't get why he's playing like this including turning the ball over so much. The missed shots don't concern me because I know Manu is a rhythm player and once he gets going, he's nearly impossible to stop. I don't know, maybe his shots not falling are connected to him being so erratic and trying too much.

[superbigtime]

Please no more cross court passes and baseline fumbling from Manu. Tim was magnificent, he should endorse Red Bull or something.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Hopefully Pop doesn't have something to do with the passiveness.

Pop is not that kind of coach at all - he's the exact opposite. If anything his fault is that sometimes he urges some role players to be way too aggressive.

[superjames1992]

DNP - Cannot play D
Best outcome of the night, tbh.

[EVAY]

Please no more cross court passes and baseline fumbling from Manu. Tim was magnificent, he should endorse Red Bull or something.

Manu only had one more turnover than Tim did, and as you point out, Tim was magnificent.

Any player wholly responsible for playmaking and handling the ball is likely to have more turnovers than others. Tim used to have a bunch of them when he was the fulcrum of the offense.

Manu's turnovers are troublesome, but no more so than Tim's or anyone else's. If Manu's shot was as on as Tim's, his stats would have been magnificent, too.

[EVAY]

It is an unfortunate habit on this forum, imo, that one player or another always seems to be in the doghouse with posters. We don't seem to carry an abundance of objectivity when it comes to assessing team member performances.

The only player on the team who seemed a bit out of sorts from the perspective of his normal play last night was Leonard, but we got the win so the team mates stepped up.

[rjv]

joseph and de colo battling for a spot in the playoff rotation. manu's confidence continues to drop

[DesertSpur50]

Pop is not that kind of coach at all - he's the exact opposite. If anything his fault is that sometimes he urges some role players to be way too aggressive.

And we've seen when players like Danny Green become too aggressive. He had some questionable drives to the basket, particularly on a fast break trying to penetrate through 3 defenders. 9/10 times nothing positive will come out of it. Danny has to become a significantly better ball handler to fully utilize is potential and athleticism. Sadly, that could be a long ways off and it certainly won't happen this season. There is a reason why he isn't getting paid the big bucks. As of right now if he sticks to what he does best everything will be fine.

[crc21209]

Blair not getting any minutes is a good sign. :tu I also agree with not playing Neal. The only time Neal should get minutes is when the team is struggling offensively and needs a scoring punch off the bench...

[Brunodf]

DeColo needs good players around him, not Neal/Blair/Bonner, that's why he plays well when paired with Diaw/Splitter/Kawhi/Manu

[ElNono]

I thought this was a much improved game for Manu, despite the shooting slump. He did start the 2nd half with some bad decisions, but I thought he pushed all the right buttons at the end to close the game after the Warriors went on a 7-0 run while Manu was on the bench. Posted Tim up, who had it going, knock down the 3 ball and penetrate and kick to Kawhi for the dagger.

[letmk]

I thought this was a much improved game for Manu, despite the shooting slump. He did start the 2nd half with some bad decisions, but I thought he pushed all the right buttons at the end to close the game after the Warriors went on a 7-0 run while Manu was on the bench. Posted Tim up, who had it going, knock down the 3 ball and penetrate and kick to Kawhi for the dagger.

No, Tim did the hard part. When Curry made one of two free throws to cut the lead to 4. Tim made three consecutive baskets before assisting Manu with a 3 (For this 3, Manu is just a shooter, which might be Green or Neal or others).

Before Tim's domination, the offense was initiated by Manu and was not nearly successful.

[TJastal]

Positive step in the right direction rotation-wise heading into the playoffs for Pop, IMO. Hopefully this is a permanent trend not just a fluke. No Blair, no Neal @ point guard and the much too green Joseph out for now.

Still think Mills was the better solution @ backup pg but won't be too dissappointed to see DeColo. Other minor quibbles: Still think there's time to get Baynes into the rotation. Why not give him Bonner's minutes? We all know this is the time of year Bonner's % starts to shrink anyway.

Still, many positives here. Pop deserves an A grade. :tu

[letmk]

Positive step in the right direction rotation-wise heading into the playoffs for Pop, IMO. Hopefully this is a permanent trend not just a fluke. No Blair, no Neal @ point guard and the much too green Joseph out for now.

Still think Mills was the better solution @ backup pg but won't be too dissappointed to see DeColo. Other minor quibbles: Still think there's time to get Baynes into the rotation. Why not give him Bonner's minutes? We all know this is the time of year Bonner's % starts to shrink anyway.

Still, many positives here. Pop deserves an A grade. :tu

Trying different PGs (Mills for a couple games, De Colo for another couple games) in different games is okay. Just don't put everybody in one game with very limited minutes.

The same with Bonner and Blair. Besides the three big man rotation, Pop now plays one of Bonner/Blair in one game, which makes much more sense.

[ElNono]

No, Tim did the hard part. When Curry made one of two free throws to cut the lead to 4. Tim made three consecutive baskets before assisting Manu with a 3 (For this 3, Manu is just a shooter, which might be Green or Neal or others).

Before Tim's domination, the offense was initiated by Manu and was not nearly successful.

Uh? Manu initiated the offense all the way to the end.

Manu comes in after GS goes on a 7-0 run. From there until the Curry freebies:

05:46 De Colo Substitution replaced by Ginobili
05:26 Splitter Free Throw 1 of 2 Missed
05:26 Splitter Free Throw 2 of 2 (17 PTS)
04:49 Duncan Jump Shot: Missed
04:08 Splitter Running Hook Shot: Missed
04:07 Ginobili Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)
04:07 Ginobili Putback Layup Shot: Missed
03:42 Ginobili 3pt Shot: Missed

Unless you're saying Manu makes Duncan and Splitter miss shots and hooks... :rolleyes

After that he pretty much posted Duncan on every possession except for the Kawhi 3 pointer. Which if we're talking about "iffy decisions", it doesn't get any more sound than that, considering Tim has been on a tear recently.

I'm not saying Tim didn't do the heavy load. What I'm saying is Manu did push the right buttons having the responsibility to initiate the offense.

[letmk]

Uh? Manu initiated the offense all the way to the end.

Manu comes in after GS goes on a 7-0 run. From there until the Curry freebies:

05:46 De Colo Substitution replaced by Ginobili
05:26 Splitter Free Throw 1 of 2 Missed
05:26 Splitter Free Throw 2 of 2 (17 PTS)
04:49 Duncan Jump Shot: Missed
04:08 Splitter Running Hook Shot: Missed
04:07 Ginobili Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)
04:07 Ginobili Putback Layup Shot: Missed
03:42 Ginobili 3pt Shot: Missed

Unless you're saying Manu makes Duncan and Splitter miss shots and hooks... :rolleyes

After that he pretty much posted Duncan on every possession except for the Kawhi 3 pointer. Which if we're talking about "iffy decisions", it doesn't get any more sound than that, considering Tim has been on a tear recently.

I'm not saying Tim didn't do the heavy load. What I'm saying is Manu did push the right buttons having the responsibility to initiate the offense.

My impression when I watched the game was Manu handled the ball a lot before Tim's three consecutive baskets. I didn't rewatch the game and don't have the video on hand, so I can't rebut you evidence directly. But there is a big difference between who initiates the offense and who takes the shot.

When a PG like Kidd is in his peak, he may initiate 80%+ of the offense when he is on the court, but he does not takes many shots at all. Like Kawhi's 3-pointer after Manu's 3-pointer was created by Manu actually.

[ElNono]

My impression when I watched the game was Manu handled the ball a lot before Tim's three consecutive baskets. I didn't rewatch the game and don't have the video on hand, so I can't rebut you evidence directly. But there is a big difference between who initiates the offense and who takes the shot.

When a PG like Kidd is in his peak, he may initiate 80%+ of the offense when he is on the court, but he does not takes many shots at all. Like Kawhi's 3-pointer after Manu's 3-pointer was created by Manu actually.

I'm not sure what you're arguing. Nobody is saying Tim didn't take and make the shots, and carried the load. IIRC, Manu had the ball in his hands on *every* possession since he walked in with 5:46 to go. He could've just as easily ignored TD, Kawhi or anybody the rest of the way. DeColo had a great game, but if you look specifically at the GSW 7-0 run right before Manu comes back in for him, Timmy didn't take a single shot during that stretch.

[EVAY]

Nono is right about Manu being the one who drove the offensive sets in the last 5+minutes, and his court vision was critical, imo, in those last minutes. There is not one at all, (including Tony) who I would rather have the ball in crunch time in a close game than Manu, even now, even with his shooting slump. If he and Tony were both in the game and Tony was hot, Manu would give him the ball. Manu takes those last shots because he is so cold-blooded with them. If he misses it, he doesn't panic. Since Tim was hot in this game, (and likely Pop was calling the plays for Tim), Manu got him the ball, but when Tim couldn't shoot and Manu was open, he did the right thing. He buried it.

[hater]

yes Manu handled the ball, but it was Pop's decision to go to Duncan, not Manu's. and a great decision that was.

[rjv]

manu still looked hesitant out there at times and he was consistently getting the ball tied up or knocked out of his hands whenever he drove to the basket. he did make some nice passes towards the end of the game as opposed to turnovers so there was improvement there. and it was nice to see him knock down the 3 late in the game, considering how iffy he has been with his outside shooting as of late.

[Pasta Batman]

It is an unfortunate habit on this forum, imo, that one player or another always seems to be in the doghouse with posters. We don't seem to carry an abundance of objectivity when it comes to assessing team member performances.

The only player on the team who seemed a bit out of sorts from the perspective of his normal play last night was Leonard, but we got the win so the team mates stepped up.

Manu's had some struggles throughout his time back since his hamstring injury. I think it's fair to point that out. Is he done? I don't think so! Does he have room to improve? Yes he does. Will they need it in the post season? Yes. He had a lot of positives, but so far, at least recently, you aren't sure what you will get from Manu game-to-game.

Stars will always get picked out, especially Manu and Parker, since they both have big followings who don't always play nice.

[ElNono]

^ That's why I said "improved", but not out of it... his shooting/finishing around the basket has been pretty bad lately, and it's something he needs to fix in these last few games.

[letmk]

I'm not sure what you're arguing. Nobody is saying Tim didn't take and make the shots, and carried the load. IIRC, Manu had the ball in his hands on *every* possession since he walked in with 5:46 to go. He could've just as easily ignored TD, Kawhi or anybody the rest of the way. DeColo had a great game, but if you look specifically at the GSW 7-0 run right before Manu comes back in for him, Timmy didn't take a single shot during that stretch.

Now I think we more on the same page. For the last several games, down the stretch, the ball almost always goes through Manu first. No argument for this.

Against Cavs, he tried too much to create for himself or others. While last night, he gives Tim the ball to operate. Thus more effective. There are nights that Tim may not be good with creating offense, then Manu may need to give Kawhi or Tiago some chances to try.

Anyways, when Tony is injured or not on the court and the ball is in Manu's hands, he cannot just think about attacking by himself. Other than that, his movement and intangibles are still there, which are all good signs.

[ElNono]

Now I think we more on the same page. For the last several games, down the stretch, the ball almost always goes through Manu first. No argument for this.

Against Cavs, he tried too much to create for himself or others. While last night, he gives Tim the ball to operate. Thus more effective. There are nights that Tim may not be good with creating offense, then Manu may need to give Kawhi or Tiago some chances to try.

Anyways, when Tony is injured or not on the court and the ball is in Manu's hands, he cannot just think about attacking by himself. Other than that, his movement and intangibles are still there, which are all good signs.

That's why I said *this* game was an improvement in that area... obviously over the previous games. I think we're talking about the same thing at this point, tbh

As far as Manu attacking by himself, I think it has a lot to do with who's around him. When Pop rolls Bonner/Blair with him, there's no pick & roll/ pick & pop possible. It's basically Manu doing his thing.

Last night in the first half, Tiago/Bonner worked well because Tiago was actually rolling to the basket. In the second half Pop went with Diaw/Bonner and Manu was back at unsuccessfully driving to the basket...

[superbigtime]

Manu only had one more turnover than Tim did, and as you point out, Tim was magnificent.

Any player wholly responsible for playmaking and handling the ball is likely to have more turnovers than others. Tim used to have a bunch of them when he was the fulcrum of the offense.

Manu's turnovers are troublesome, but no more so than Tim's or anyone else's. If Manu's shot was as on as Tim's, his stats would have been magnificent, too.


What I can't make an observation that Manu has been turning it over by trying to pull too many rabbits out of his hat? He has had 23 turnovers in the last 7 games. Many of these TOs stem from risky passes and getting himself pinned on the baseline, not from just being a primary ball handler and being a 'fulcrum' of the offense. He is a bit of a black hole lately; it's been widely observed and it's bothersome. So I'm griping about it a little, so what I still love the guy. If he were shooting better, it would matter less, but that's not the case. Hopefully Tony's return will smooth all this out.

[skulls138]

Manu's great when he gets hit or disrespected. Someone needs to fill that role. Also, he should do more driving because his 3 is off.

[HarlemHeat37]

The past 4-5 games are great examples of my reasoning for fearing that Cory Joseph is soft, tbh..

He's too conservative and passive, tbh..finding long-term success in the NBA is difficult for conservative players, unless they are elite shooters or possess size, which is not the case for Joseph..his shooting and overall PG skills have improved, but it's pointless if he isn't using these skills on a consistent basis..

De Colo has similar problems..he's very aggressive at times, especially when he has been inserted into the starting lineup, but has been too conservative in his bench role..

It appears that the backup PG role may be assigned to the player that will play with intelligent aggression..

[Obstructed_View]

Backup point guard is supposed to not give the game away. I'll take the guy who hits shots when open, doesn't turn the ball over, and plays tough defense.

[TheGoldStandard]

We have enough hero ball from a fake PG, I'd rather we have a conservative guy handle the ball to give Tony a rest. Both Cojo and Nando have proven they can play defense and protect the ball.

[cd021]

Blair: DNP-CD. Good to see him benched for a bad matchup (and IMO playing him was the key to the Spurs losing at Oakland earlier this season; well, that, and the team being gassed on the tail end of the RRT).

Blair didn't cost us that GSW game. He actually helped psuh our lead up to 10 While Splitter was on the bench. Us struggling to decide between 2 bigs and going small did.

[spurraider21]

Tim Duncan A+
Welcome back, Vintage Timmy. In his best game since The Scare, he was great on both ends. On D, he fiercely guarded the rim, was active when switched and boarded well. On O, he scored from everywhere and passed wonderfully. Overall, he played extremely hard and stayed focused throughout.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypQYGSzKHqE

[pgardn]

If one just looks at TO's for Manu it may not look bad. But the # of times opponents are tipping his passes and how he seems to be falling back and on his heels...

Its not good. And the gambling D or just getting beat; the regression is obvious.

He is talking it up during time outs, his leadership and will to win have remained important. With Tony coming back I am hoping his familiar role results in a better player than we now see.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypQYGSzKHqE

:worthy:


And as for the back up point spot i'd still go with Joesph by a hair tbh I like how he really fought through the screens of Bogut and lee. And with nando his defense really looked good last night. He was sticking his nose in their, getting physical with jack. good work nando

[EricB]

Positive step in the right direction rotation-wise heading into the playoffs for Pop, IMO. Hopefully this is a permanent trend not just a fluke. No Blair, no Neal @ point guard and the much too green Joseph out for now.

Still think Mills was the better solution @ backup pg but won't be too dissappointed to see DeColo. Other minor quibbles: Still think there's time to get Baynes into the rotation. Why not give him Bonner's minutes? We all know this is the time of year Bonner's % starts to shrink anyway.

Still, many positives here. Pop deserves an A grade. :tu


lmao @ bull In a china shop baynes

[letmk]

From SpursNation, it says "Duncan has won 836 career games, tied with Cliff Robinson for fifth all time." Anyone can find the list for top 10 players? I googled but can only find most games played by a player.

[Sean Cagney]

It says something that this was Duncan's best game after he just had one of 28-19 and another of 30-12 and 5 blocks. Timmy is amazing.

He is incredible.

[hater]

agree some incredible stuff from TD

let's just hope he has some left for the playoffs

[HI-FI]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypQYGSzKHqE

:toast

that was awesome. he's something else.

[Tim_duncan21]

nice TD got an A+

[TheGoldStandard]

With Parker coming back it'll open up the interior for Duncan he'll still get the mid range shots with penatration and it looks like he won't have to work so hard offensively with parker picking up some of the scoring on offense. Defensively Duncan is going to have to tear it up.

[Solid D]

Thanks for posting your thoughts & grades, timvp!