Why can't we defend last second shots?

[SilverSpur]

Once again our defense can't stop a last second shot. I don't understand. Do we or don't we practice defending this in practice?

[Splits]

That's right. Spurs coaching staff intentionally eliminates last-second defensive drills because they're too stressful on our guys. So we wing it come game time.

[ElNono]

I really have a hard time remembering many last second shots we didn't successfully defend this season... Mo will in Utah, that 3 pointer by Toronto (I think), and today's shot... any more?

[Shifty]

It was actually defended quite well. Williams just made an ice-cold move waiting on Manu to fly by him with about 2 seconds left. Most would have rushed and got it blocked or missed.

[freetiago]

Spurs defended it well
Manu needless gambling that his old creaky man bones cant pull off anymore is what broke the defense down

[hooperflash]

I really have a hard time remembering many last second shots we didn't successfully defend this season... Mo will in Utah, that 3 pointer by Toronto (I think), and today's shot... any more?

Phoenix before this one, it's not that big of an issue though.. We're playing tight defense, just need to stop falling for pump fakes tbh.

[Mugen]

I'll live with Marvin Williams shooting a game tying 3 tbh.

[ElNono]

I'll live with Marvin Williams shooting a game tying 3 tbh.

that too...

[Arcadian]

Is there statistical evidence that we defend last second shots any worse than average? Or is it just an availability heuristic?

[ElNono]

Is there statistical evidence that we defend last second shots any worse than average? Or is it just an availability heuristic?

It's a stat called KJR...

[Sean Cagney]

I'll live with Marvin Williams shooting a game tying 3 tbh.
I will too, but not if he hits it lol..... He unfortunately did but the Spurs win so oh well.

[Mugen]

I will too, but not if he hits it lol..... He unfortunately did but the Spurs win so oh well.

Meh...Wesley Johnson, Marvin Williams, etc.

If draft busts hit big shots against the spurs in the reg. season, so be it. call me when Thabeet hits a game winner in the WCF tbh.

[Sean Cagney]

Meh...Wesley Johnson, Marvin Williams, etc.

If draft busts hit big shots against the spurs in the reg. season, so be it. call me when Thabeet hits a game winner in the WCF tbh.

Yeah thats just it, bullshit players shoot it on us it goes in, against other teams they miss. Lets not add to the list of bs players who have hit threes against us to go to OT anytime soon. We can say what we want about the guy who hits it or the %, but he seems to hit it on the Spurs.

Please do not say Thabeet hitting a three in the WCF, some wild crap like that will happen if we make it there.

[Budkin]

Yeah thats just it, bullshit players shoot it on us it goes in, against other teams they miss. Lets not add to the list of bs players who have hit threes against us to go to OT anytime soon. We can say what we want about the guy who hits it or the %, but he seems to hit it on the Spurs.

Please do not say Thabeet hitting a three in the WCF, some wild crap like that will happen if we make it there.

Honestly I think fans of all good teams feel like this. On other forums I see them bitching about the exact same thing. "[insert scrub] always goes off on us!" It does really feel like that sometimes though.

[Mugen]

Yeah thats just it, bullshit players shoot it on us it goes in, against other teams they miss. Lets not add to the list of bs players who have hit threes against us to go to OT anytime soon. We can say what we want about the guy who hits it or the %, but he seems to hit it on the Spurs.

Please do not say Thabeet hitting a three in the WCF, some wild crap like that will happen if we make it there.

Happens to every team tbh. I'd venture you probably watch the Spurs more than any other team so it could seem that way. But crap players make fluke shots sometimes. It happens.

[letmk]

Manu blew it. It's a 3-point game, so he should not have double-teamed Jefferson in the first place.

[ElNono]

to be fair, I'm more concerned with missing not one but two freebies in the clutch... if at least one of those goes in, this thread might not even exist, tbh

[Sean Cagney]

Honestly I think fans of all good teams feel like this. On other forums I see them bitching about the exact same thing. "[insert scrub] always goes off on us!" It does really feel like that sometimes though.

Yeah it does, seems like the Spurs have a crazy way to lose at times though when they had games won! I know they win more than lose obviously so I will take that but it seems .4 and 13 in 35 and some random crazy shit happens against the Spurs.
Happens to every team tbh. I'd venture you probably watch the Spurs more than any other team so it could seem that way. But crap players make fluke shots sometimes. It happens.

They do, I watch mainly Spurs games so yeah I see it happen alot more to the Spurs than other teams. I know other teams feel that way, but when I see a last second shot going up against us I cringe lol.

[John B]

Why do we leave an open 3 when it's the obvious shot? Protect the 3, if any let them shoot 2. Recognizing shooters, Jefferson is inside the 3 why double team him? Also Mo Williams exploding on us again. Shouldn't Green guarding him. I remember Bowen would take Nash, CP3, Allen, whoever and get them off their game

[Whisky Dog]

It has happened 4 or 5 times this season through about 67 games so that does seem a bit high. We've had small defensive breakdowns that have given open shots on at least three of them including last night's.

It might be something to try the foul strategy when up 3 with less than 10 seconds. Make them shoot free throws instead of getting a semi-open 3 look.

[Whisky Dog]

They do, I watch mainly Spurs games so yeah I see it happen alot more to the Spurs than other teams. I know other teams feel that way, but when I see a last second shot going up against us I cringe lol.

I bet Cavs fans are like "how the F does Kawhi Leonard hit game winners on us? Not Parker, Ginobili, or Duncan but Kawhi Leonard??" We know what Kawhi can do but fans who only watch him two or three times a year don't.

[will_spurs]

to be fair, I'm more concerned with missing not one but two freebies in the clutch... if at least one of those goes in, this thread might not even exist, tbh

Not making such a stupid defensive play is easier to correct than hitting clutch FTs, though.

[ElNono]

Not making such a stupid defensive play is easier to correct than hitting clutch FTs, though.

Disagree. Defensive breakdowns happen all the time... having an 83% FT shooter miss two freebies in a row? Not so much.

[Sean Cagney]

I bet Cavs fans are like "how the F does Kawhi Leonard hit game winners on us? Not Parker, Ginobili, or Duncan but Kawhi Leonard??" We know what Kawhi can do but fans who only watch him two or three times a year don't.
I agree there, just seems some crazy crap will happen down the stretch! I know for a fact though missed FT's are what make it possible, so we should start there. I laugh though they get a full court pass against us and hit a fluke three to tie it, now that PHX game really had me pissed off that crap lol. You can't even fathom stuff like that at times! Atleast Kawhi's play was drawn up and perfected, some crazy crap you can't plan for.

[letmk]

I agree there, just seems some crazy crap will happen down the stretch! I know for a fact though missed FT's are what make it possible, so we should start there. I laugh though they get a full court pass against us and hit a fluke three to tie it, now that PHX game really had me pissed off that crap lol. You can't even fathom stuff like that at times! Atleast Kawhi's play was drawn up and perfected, some crazy crap you can't plan for.

Suns' game is more of a fluke shot since they had no timeout and there was very little time left. It happened so fast as they just desperately took a shot/any shot. To prevent that loss, making free throw plays biggest role.

Last night, Jazz has timeout and the time is long enough to make several extra passes. On the other hand, exactly because of this, Jazz was trying to execute some game-play which sometimes makes it "easier" for opponents to defend/guess. Since the offense was rational, the defense can get more clues from reading the offense.

Marv Williams' shot itself was also a lucky one like Suns' last shot. But Spurs' defense should/could have done better than that.

[will_spurs]

Disagree. Defensive breakdowns happen all the time... having an 83% FT shooter miss two freebies in a row? Not so much.

About 3% of the time (re: your last question).

As to defensive breakdown, it wasn't a defensive breakdown. It was a boneheaded play. When up by 3, you don't leave a guy behind the 3-point line to help defend a guy who can at most score 2 points (well, unless Manu was planning to give an And-1 to AJ just to hedge himself and make sure there'd be a way Utah could tie?)

Sometimes your trolling is fun; sometimes it's really stupid. I'll let you guess which one it is this time. Hint: Manu felt he had to apologize.

[ElNono]

About 3% of the time (re: your last question).

Thanks for backing up what I said.


As to defensive breakdown, it wasn't a defensive breakdown. It was a boneheaded play. When up by 3, you don't leave a guy behind the 3-point line to help defend a guy who can at most score 2 points (well, unless Manu was planning to give an And-1 to AJ just to hedge himself and make sure there'd be a way Utah could tie?)

Never said defensive breakdowns don't include boneheaded plays.

As I said, 97% of the time Tony makes at least 1 of 2, and the defensive breakdown/boneheaded play/lucky shot doesn't matter.

This whole thing is very reminiscent of the Toronto(IIRC) game, where Manu missed a freebie and Toronto made a difficult 3 point shot with the clock going down to send it to OT.

Back then, the blame was all about Manu missing the freebie. Which is OK, but then let's apply the same standard to everyone.


Sometimes your trolling is fun; sometimes it's really stupid. I'll let you guess which one it is this time. Hint: Manu felt he had to apologize.

My trolling had a pretty good season, IMO... especially thanks to D'Antoni... but it will take a hit here or there, it's only natural, tbh...

[Splits]

Tony drilled 2 throws with 10 seconds left, otherwise we lose like the Phoenix game where Manu could t seal the win with 2.7 to play

[ElNono]

4th Quarter - Score 83-83:
02:13 Parker Free Throw 1 of 2 Missed
02:13 Parker Free Throw 2 of 2 Missed


1:44 Ginobili Layup Shot: Made

[Chris16]

Well what do ya know, it happened again tonight. :rollin

[DarrinS]

Well what do ya know, it happened again tonight. :rollin

Not horribly defended, tbh, but I think they were trying their best not to foul. And the way they were calling the game when Hardin had the ball...

[therealtruth]

Not horribly defended, tbh, but I think they were trying their best not to foul. And the way they were calling the game when Hardin had the ball...

They allow you to get away with alot at the end of the game. As long as you don't totally wipe out a guy it should be ok.

[siraulo23]

:lol we caught a break last couple of games, not tonight tho :lol

bosh three 3 pointers, including the clutch game winner

[Kool Bob Love]

Would rather the Spurs fail at defending clutch shoots now than in the playoffs tbh.

They will learn from tonight.

[vander]

because Matt Bonner inspires confidence in the other team

[Sean Cagney]

Would rather the Spurs fail at defending clutch shoots now than in the playoffs tbh.

They will learn from tonight.
I have heard this before, but hope they actually DO this time. We can't keep saying this over and over, and the playoffs get tougher so it will happen again if they don't fix a thing or two.

[ElNono]

:lol we caught a break last couple of games, not tonight tho :lol

arguably, we didn't catch a break, we defended well...

If a 25% 3 point shooter hits the gamewinner, you tip your hat and move on...

[Sean Cagney]

arguably, we didn't catch a break, we defended well...

If a 25% 3 point shooter hits the gamewinner, you tip your hat and move on...
Yep, we heard that when that bum from PHX hit that shot on us and in the Utah game! Williams just seemed to hit the shot! The thing is the lower %FG or FT shooters just seem to hit those against us! Bosh was wide open too! No need to leave him that wide open! WHY DOUBLE and then leave a guy that wide open? He will hit that shot quite a few times that wide open Nono. Forget % of the shooter, if they are that open eventually it will fall! I saw Lewis wide open too and he missed one late, Bosh missed one wide open, then he hits that one! Do not leave shooters that wide open or they will and can hit that shot.

[ElNono]

Yep, we heard that when that bum from PHX hit that shot on us and in the Utah game! Williams just seemed to hit the shot! The thing is the lower %FG or FT shooters just seem to hit those against us! Bosh was wide open too! No need to leave him that wide open! WHY DOUBLE and then leave a guy that wide open? He will hit that shot quite a few times that wide open Nono. Forget % of the shooter, if they are that open eventually it will fall! I saw Lewis wide open too and he missed one late, Bosh missed one wide open, then he hits that one! Do not leave shooters that wide open or they will and can hit that shot.

You can argue it was a fuckup, but I'll have Bosh burning me from 3 rather than Ray Allen 100 times out of 100 times. And Tim did contest that 3. Spurs shouldn't have have allowed the game to get to that situation to begin with, but that's a different story.

[Sean Cagney]

You can argue it was a fuckup, but I'll have Bosh burning me from 3 rather than Ray Allen 100 times out of 100 times. And Tim did contest that 3. Spurs shouldn't have have allowed the game to get to that situation to begin with, but that's a different story.

That shot looked wide open to me! Atleast get near him, he might have ran at him late but he had a dead eye shot at it. I agree with you though, that game should have never been close, but it was and they let it get that close and lost it at home. That loss will come back to haunt us IMO, that was not a good loss and this week is tough so we can be in #2 by the end of the week.

[ElNono]

That shot looked wide open to me! Atleast get near him, he might have ran at him late but he had a dead eye shot at it. I agree with you though, that game should have never been close, but it was and they let it get that close and lost it at home. That loss will come back to haunt us IMO, that was not a good loss and this week is tough so we can be in #2 by the end of the week.

gG_vdeu8dGE

Looks like a good contest to me...

No loss is a good loss, IMO

[Russ]

It's hard to defend a 6-11 guy shooting three-pointers at the buzzer.

When a 6-11 guy who has hit 16 threes all year (in 69 games) goes 3-5 from three in one game, it's just not your night.

Just get em next time.

[T Park]

i debated Ian Doughtery at Air Alamo.com on twitter about this post game, and he argued it was the better percentage shot to give up what with Haslem had a wide open shot near the basket.

I argued I would've taken that over the three, or, had Duncan played closer, mightve forced Bosh into a worse shot.

I dont know. Ian however is most likely right and that it was just a damn good shot by Bosh, you tip your cap, you move onto against Memphis.

[Sean Cagney]

gG_vdeu8dGE

Looks like a good contest to me...

No loss is a good loss, IMOHe was wide open man, Tim ran at him! That was not contested! This is Prince running at Horry in 05 here, he was open and then someone tried to close the damn gap and ran at him! That is all that was, he was wide open to look at it and aim. This was not a good contest Nono, sorry he was wide open to dead aim that one, this just further proves it, Sean Elliott says it as well too.

It's hard to defend a 6-11 guy shooting three-pointers at the buzzer.

When a 6-11 guy who has hit 16 threes all year (in 69 games) goes 3-5 from three in one game, it's just not your night.

Just get em next time.
We are done against this team this year IMO, we will not see them again.

[ElNono]

The reality is that if one of Green or Tiago don't close down on Ray Allen and he sinks the 3 pointer, we would've never heard the end of it... including Tiago and Green from Pop... all things considered, Bosh making that shot I can live with. There's twenty other things to fret about in this game.

[ElNono]

He was wide open man, Tim ran at him! That was not contested! This is Prince running at Horry in 05 here, he was open and then someone tried to close the damn gap and ran at him! That is all that was, he was wide open to look at it and aim. This was not a good contest Nono, sorry he was wide open to dead aim that one, this just further proves it, Sean Elliott says it as well too.

I'll disagree on that. Against a 6'11 guy, that's probably as good as you're going to get as far as contesting... You don't want to jump at him and foul a 25% 3pt shooter. Tim did the right thing... hand up, and if he makes it you tip your hat.

[Russ]

We are done against this team this year IMO, we will not see them again.

Give the Heat some credit. I think they make it out of the East.

[Sean Cagney]

The reality is that if one of Green or Tiago don't close down on Ray Allen and he sinks the 3 pointer, we would've never heard the end of it... including Tiago and Green from Pop... all things considered, Bosh making that shot I can live with. There's twenty other things to fret about in this game.

How about our O going completely dead in the last minute again and the ISO! Thats what concerns me, period. This is not new either, it has happened now for a while. Watch the games and you will see more of it.
Give the Heat some credit. I think they make it out of the East.

Heat are not the problem here, the Spurs....... I will leave it there.

[T Park]

Sean first off you argue the defense against the shot was bad, then you say well well what about the offense.

two different arguments. The offense struggles when they stop moving the ball. When parker got hedged and doubled he held onto the ball trying to make things happen instead of splitting the defenders and working the ball around.

Now, is the last two weeks concerning? Yes and no. Yes the offense bogging down, however, the defense on last second shots played well vs Miller and Chris Paul especially. Tony Parker played that absolutely 10000% perfect.

[Sean Cagney]

Sean first off you argue the defense against the shot was bad, then you say well well what about the offense.

two different arguments. The offense struggles when they stop moving the ball. When parker got hedged and doubled he held onto the ball trying to make things happen instead of splitting the defenders and working the ball around.

Now, is the last two weeks concerning? Yes and no. Yes the offense bogging down, however, the defense on last second shots played well vs Miller and Chris Paul especially. Tony Parker played that absolutely 10000% perfect.

The O has been bad since I started watching alot down the stretch lately, thats what I see! They go stale and as you said just stall! How many teams can see that and do the same to us? That is a concern! This team when peaking this year was alot better, it seems the last month they have really fallen off! Concerning. There was no D on that last shot though TBH, Tim WAS NOT on him, he ran out to get a hand up on him after he got a look and shot it! That is not good D! That is running out there to put a hand up. That last second D by Parker was a foul the other night! Yes as a Spurs fan that was a foul! The Clips got away with alot though so that offset that, but that was a foul by Tony good D or not he hit him.

The D on Miller though that was great, yes they did play great on that there I agree. The O is my concern namely down the stretch, they beat the Nuggets after choking again down the stretch and Clippers the other night as well with Tims shot! Other than that they choke down the stretch and did it again tonight! A minute is coming and they see it and just go retard and shit the bed. I am concerned, sorry.

[ElNono]

How about our O going completely dead in the last minute again and the ISO! Thats what concerns me, period. This is not new either, it has happened now for a while. Watch the games and you will see more of it.

There just have been very little contributions from anyone not named TP, TD or Manu in the last few minutes of recent games. Kawhi *might* be the exception, but I would have to check the game logs. And I'm not talking about a spot up shot, but players actually being involved in the offense. We struggled to score in the last quarter against Denver (17 pts), Clippers (19 pts) and tonight (22 pts). It gets compounded when TP, TD or Manu miss shots, which are the guys you expect the most from.

Some people will say tonight was a bad matchup for Tiago, but I actually expected him to cause the bad matchup for Miami by imposing his size. It's one of the areas where the Spurs will need to analyze how to exploit better (I'm talking overall, not just against Miami). He took only 4 shots, but he did get the ball, he just didn't really assert himself. Something else I asked a few months ago is if the Spurs are too reliant on the pick and roll? Some teams (like Miami) are really good at covering that, so you'll need some more variety. Guys like Neal, Green and Kawhi all seem to have a decent mid-range, so there should be no reason not to run a few curls for them.

Overall, I think the defense is where it needs to be. The offense has regressed, but I don't see any reason why it can't improve. Maybe it won't be at last season's level, but I don't think it needs to be either.

[Sean Cagney]

There just have been very little contributions from anyone not named TP, TD or Manu in the last few minutes of recent games. Kawhi *might* be the exception, but I would have to check the game logs. And I'm not talking about a spot up shot, but players actually being involved in the offense. We struggled to score in the last quarter against Denver (17 pts), Clippers (19 pts) and tonight (22 pts). It gets compounded when TP, TD or Manu miss shots, which are the guys you expect the most from.

Some people will say tonight was a bad matchup for Tiago, but I actually expected him to cause the bad matchup for Miami by imposing his size. It's one of the areas where the Spurs will need to analyze how to exploit better (I'm talking overall, not just against Miami). He took only 4 shots, but he did get the ball, he just didn't really assert himself. Something else I asked a few months ago is if the Spurs are too reliant on the pick and roll? Some teams (like Miami) are really good at covering that, so you'll need some more variety. Guys like Neal, Green and Kawhi all seem to have a decent mid-range, so there should be no reason not to run a few curls for them.

Overall, I think the defense is where it needs to be. The offense has regressed, but I don't see any reason why it can't improve. Maybe it won't be at last season's level, but I don't think it needs to be either.

D has fallen off some lately, check the January to now Stats, it has fallen off so that is not a good sign! It is not horrible but not where it needs to be, it was but they need to get back there. I do see a reason why the O can't improve! Keep up the same BS Iso plays down the stretch or POP and his drawn up last play to Manu he used one game that worked, teams caught on and cut it off now! Thats the problem. They need to get more creative, free some up late and run actual plays, not just a last second bailout prayer shot that you hope goes in! It does at times, but against Houston and tonight it did not work.

[ElNono]

D has fallen off some lately, check the January to now Stats, it has fallen off so that is not a good sign!

I posted this 4 days ago:


Depends where you split... if it's over the last 20 games, we're 5th in defensive rating...

Over the last 10 games, 15th (very likely the Portland game killing us on this one)

Over the last 5, 8th

Over the last 3, 5th again...

So apparently we're playing good D again after TP came back...

For comparison, last season during March we were ranked #9 in defensive efficiency.

[ElNono]

Don't forget the schedule matters too... we're playing playoff teams that are ramping up for the playoffs right now, or teams fighting for a playoff spot.

[Sean Cagney]

Don't forget the schedule matters too... we're playing playoff teams that are ramping up for the playoffs right now, or teams fighting for a playoff spot.

Denver did not have Lawson and the Heat did not have Wade or James, that counts too. I know the schedule is tougher yes, but seriously if you think the D does not need some work then okay so be it! They have kept us in games though when the O goes to shit, which is a fact lately it has gone to complete shit late in games and thats my main concern in all reality. I don't think we have the superstar to carry us in a series or take over a game anymore! The bench lately has fallen off as well! I feel this is reality.

[therealtruth]

There just have been very little contributions from anyone not named TP, TD or Manu in the last few minutes of recent games. Kawhi *might* be the exception, but I would have to check the game logs. And I'm not talking about a spot up shot, but players actually being involved in the offense. We struggled to score in the last quarter against Denver (17 pts), Clippers (19 pts) and tonight (22 pts). It gets compounded when TP, TD or Manu miss shots, which are the guys you expect the most from.

Some people will say tonight was a bad matchup for Tiago, but I actually expected him to cause the bad matchup for Miami by imposing his size. It's one of the areas where the Spurs will need to analyze how to exploit better (I'm talking overall, not just against Miami). He took only 4 shots, but he did get the ball, he just didn't really assert himself. Something else I asked a few months ago is if the Spurs are too reliant on the pick and roll? Some teams (like Miami) are really good at covering that, so you'll need some more variety. Guys like Neal, Green and Kawhi all seem to have a decent mid-range, so there should be no reason not to run a few curls for them.

Overall, I think the defense is where it needs to be. The offense has regressed, but I don't see any reason why it can't improve. Maybe it won't be at last season's level, but I don't think it needs to be either.

Good points. Let's hope Pop can make the adjustments when the time comes and not just rely on Ginobili or even possibly Bonner.

[Sean Cagney]

Good points. Let's hope Pop can make the adjustments when the time comes and not just rely on Ginobili or even possibly Bonner.
Oh if he relies on BONNER you already know!!!!!!!!!!! WE are done. Lets hope POP gets his head outta his ass and gets good rotations going for the playoffs and can draw up better plays at the end of games! I am less than impressed with his drawn up plays to say the least and he does go to one too many times and teams caught on! The one to Ginobili that was good to tie that one game against GSW to send it to OT, he went to that a few times after that lol. He needs to get creative.

[ElNono]

Denver did not have Lawson and the Heat did not have Wade or James, that counts too. I know the schedule is tougher yes, but seriously if you think the D does not need some work then okay so be it! They have kept us in games though when the O goes to shit, which is a fact lately it has gone to complete shit late in games and thats my main concern in all reality. I don't think we have the superstar to carry us in a series or take over a game anymore! The bench lately has fallen off as well! I feel this is reality.

Well, they're all NBA teams. Our bench dropped 100 on the Heat in Miami with Wade and James, and Miami is arguably a great defensive team. Maybe it was a fluke game.
Numbers say the Spurs D is extremely reliant on Duncan-Splitter-Kawhi being out there, so let's hope those guys stay healthy and can keep it up in the playoffs. We're going to need that if the O doesn't make strides.

The 'not having a superstar to carry us' concern was there since game 1 in the regular season and has been there since TD has gotten older. Not sure why it's more alarming this season than, say, last season.

[Sean Cagney]

Well, they're all NBA teams. Our bench dropped 100 on the Heat in Miami with Wade and James, and Miami is arguably a great defensive team. Maybe it was a fluke game.
Numbers say the Spurs D is extremely reliant on Duncan-Splitter-Kawhi being out there, so let's hope those guys stay healthy and can keep it up in the playoffs. We're going to need that if the O doesn't make strides.

The 'not having a superstar to carry us' concern was there since game 1 in the regular season and has been there since TD has gotten older. Not sure why it's more alarming this season than, say, last season.

I agree, so in other words you are basically saying what I am in but saying it differently! This is not a title team but if stars align they might have a shot! We had the stars align last year IMO! Shortened year and huge run a the end, fell short but it was fun! This year I don't see that later on, but hey can it happen? With Manu out and the bench not playing well no! But it can happen if all goes well. I feel this team is good yes, but not great! They can beat anyone out West with a good series, but they can lose a first round or second round as well IMO, it's up in the air. I hate relying on the three alot and ISO late, that scares me as as fan. What a good debate to be having this late huh? Rather than fighting for the 8th seed lol.

[ElNono]

I agree, so in other words you are basically saying what I am in but saying it differently! This is not a title team but if stars align they might have a shot! We had the stars align last year IMO! Shortened year and huge run a the end, fell short but it was fun! This year I don't see that later on, but hey can it happen? With Manu out and the bench not playing well no! But it can happen if all goes well. I feel this team is good yes, but not great! They can beat anyone out West with a good series, but they can lose a first round or second round as well IMO, it's up in the air. I hate relying on the three alot and ISO late, that scares me as as fan. What a good debate to be having this late huh? Rather than fighting for the 8th seed lol.

I'm a firm believer in D >>> O every time, especially playoffs. I think some things aligned properly for us last season (short season, not as tiring, ejected the RJ cancer, some hungry contributors in Diaw and Jack, Kawhi being more than just your regular rook, mostly no injuries in the playoffs). The lack of stops eventually came back to haunt us. I think this team is better prepared to make those stops. We'll see if it matters when the playoffs roll around.

Always enjoy a good chat. Alas, it's time to sleep here, so we'll continue another time :toast

[Sean Cagney]

I'm a firm believer in D >>> O every time, especially playoffs. I think some things aligned properly for us last season (short season, not as tiring, ejected the RJ cancer, some hungry contributors in Diaw and Jack, Kawhi being more than just your regular rook, mostly no injuries in the playoffs). The lack of stops eventually came back to haunt us. I think this team is better prepared to make those stops. We'll see if it matters when the playoffs roll around.

Always enjoy a good chat. Alas, it's time to sleep here, so we'll continue another time :toastWe are not the juggernaut D team we were in our Spurs prime, don't even go near that there man! But I agree on D! You still need your clutch guys though in big games as proven ALOT OF TIMES! ALOT of times. Last year we are on a huge roll at this time! I hope they can get near that now. Good chat as you said! PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ElNono]

We are not the juggernaut D team we were in our Spurs prime, don't even go near that there man! But I agree on D!

I never said that, and we don't have the personnel to be that. For the personnel we have, this is probably close to as good as it's going to get. Looking at the rest of the west, outside of Memphis, it's probably good enough.

[TheGoldStandard]

It's as if they practice being out of position during practice. Okay you both have to rotate over and leave that guy wide open, we'll make a pathetic attempt to close out on him when the ball is already up in the air.

[Sean Cagney]

It's as if they practice being out of position during practice. Okay you both have to rotate over and leave that guy wide open, we'll make a pathetic attempt to close out on him when the ball is already up in the air.

Yep and that is what it was, he was not covered well yesterday and he ran out to put a hand up there, but it was too late he sized it up and hit that shot dead on because it was a good look. That last shot was not D'ed well and Elliott voiced that as well after the shot went in.

[mute]

lol

[justinandimcool]

lolllllllllll

[Brunodf]

Neal being in the rotation has hurt this team a lot

[Boomersgold]

LOL.

[siraulo23]

:lmao

[Boomersgold]

Neal being in the rotation has hurt this team a lot

Neal wasn't even on the court when Conley made that shot. He was also a +11 in +/-. I don't think Neal's the one to blame for this loss.

[hater]

not getting stops when needed is sign of a weak team weak mentally

1st round exit imo

[ElNono]

hard to defend without your best defenders...

[TrainOfThought5]

Isnt Danny Green supposed to be good at defense?

[TD 21]

This team is a joke. No poise, no mental toughness, apparently no coaching down the stretch of close games anymore. They don't even bother to run a play, because apparently they like having their banged up PG go 1-on-5 against the 2nd best defense in the league and shoot off balance, contested jumpers. Those are always high percentage shots.

After they piss away the 1 seed by getting blown away against the Thunder, they're going to limp in and either narrowly escape the 1st round or further embarrass themselves and get eliminated during it again.

[spurraider21]

not getting stops when needed is sign of a weak team weak mentally

1st round exit imo

Bonner and Diaw in the game in the closing seconds giving up a game winning layup tbh. NOTHING to do with team's mental strength.

You really think Conley gets that shot up while Tim is in there protecting the rim? gtf outta here

[Brunodf]

Neal wasn't even on the court when Conley made that shot. He was also a +11 in +/-. I don't think Neal's the one to blame for this loss.

Who cares about +/-, Spurs had a 4 point lead, 2 on 1 fastbreak and he shoots a jumper, Grizzlies score on the other end and Splitter fouls out, that was the play of the game.

[ElNono]

This team is a joke. No poise, no mental toughness, apparently no coaching down the stretch of close games anymore. They don't even bother to run a play, because apparently they like having their banged up PG go 1-on-5 against the 2nd best defense in the league and shoot off balance, contested jumpers. Those are always high percentage shots.

After they piss away the 1 seed by getting blown away against the Thunder, they're going to limp in and either narrowly escape the 1st round or further embarrass themselves and get eliminated during it again.

You're overracting... this team was missing their top 3 players and their top 2 defenders... overall, it was a valiant effort...

[Floyd Pacquiao]

only if we had td and tiago to protect the rim tonight

[spurraider21]

This team is a joke. No poise, no mental toughness, apparently no coaching down the stretch of close games anymore. They don't even bother to run a play, because apparently they like having their banged up PG go 1-on-5 against the 2nd best defense in the league and shoot off balance, contested jumpers. Those are always high percentage shots.

After they piss away the 1 seed by getting blown away against the Thunder, they're going to limp in and either narrowly escape the 1st round or further embarrass themselves and get eliminated during it again.
Pop tried to run a play at the end but Bonner tripped and stumbled when trying to give parker a screen, so it was virtually ineffective, forcing TP to iso after that point

[Creation88]

Tony failed to find Bonner on back to back possession for the pick and pop and Pop was livid then Conley hits wide open 3 (thanks Neal) and driving lay up.

[Creation88]

does Danny Green realize Mike Conley is left handed?

[Johnny RIngo]

Despite the improved defense, this team is worse than last year's. Too mentally weak and can't get stops or buckets in late game moments. Our ceiling is the Conference Finals...but we're not beating the Thunder...especially after we lose homecourt advantage in the coming week.

[SenorSpur]

Why can't we defend last second shots? It beats the hell out of me. Poor rotations, ill-advised switches, low sense of urgency. It's almost like these guys go brain-dead in the waning moments of tight ball games.

For example in tonight's game, why the hell was Gary Neal cheating off Mike Conley, thereby leaving him wide open beyond the arc, when the Grizz were down by three and needed a 3-ball to tie? Then on the next possession, Conley drives the lane and scores the game-winning basket, with ease.

It's even more frustrating watching how easily the opponents are getting such wide-open looks for game-winning or game-tying baskets.

[Joyrider]

only if we had td and tiago to protect the rim tonight

Tbh, with the way the game was being called, Conley would have gone to the line even with Tim and Tiago in there. Just that type of game.

[ElNono]

Are you guys really talking last minute defense on a game without Duncan, Kawhi and Splitter?

[SenorSpur]

Pop tried to run a play at the end but Bonner tripped and stumbled when trying to give parker a screen, so it was virtually ineffective, forcing TP to iso after that point

Besides that, Bonner is probably the worst screen-setter on the team. The mere fact that he's even in the game is crunch time means you're playing 4-on-5 - on both ends.

[ElNono]

Why can't we defend last second shots? It beats the hell out of me. Poor rotations, ill-advised switches, low sense of urgency. It's almost like these guys go brain-dead in the waning moments of tight ball games.

For example in tonight's game, why the hell was Gary Neal cheating off Mike Conley, thereby leaving him wide open beyond the arc, when the Grizz were down by three and needed a 3-ball to tie? Then on the next possession, Conley drives the lane and scores the game-winning basket, with ease.

It's even more frustrating watching how easily the opponents are getting such wide-open looks for game-winning or game-tying baskets.

We had terrible defensive guys out there... watch the Conley layup on Green... Bonner instead of closing, sticks to ZBo at the 3 point line!!!! ZBo that couldn't shot for shit all season long.

[superjames1992]

Neal wasn't even on the court when Conley made that shot. He was also a +11 in +/-. I don't think Neal's the one to blame for this loss.
He left his man wide open for the tying three on the possession prior. Pop responded by putting Danny Green in, who proceeded to choke, too.

[Spurs Brazil]

Green is terrible on D, Neal is terrible on D, Bonner/Blair are terrible on D. All of them should put all their salaries together and give to Tim Duncan, who cover their pathetic D, game after game

[spurraider21]

He left his man wide open for the tying three on the possession prior. Pop responded by putting Danny Green in, who proceeded to choke, too.

nobody helped on dribble penetration. thats the purpose of your bigs. how many shots has timmy blocked at the rim this year? people are having breakdowns on this forum because we lost a close road b2b game against a good playoff team without our best player, who would certainly have made a huge difference when conley was getting to the rim

[ElNono]

nobody helped on dribble penetration. thats the purpose of your bigs. how many shots has timmy blocked at the rim this year? people are having breakdowns on this forum because we lost a close road b2b game against a good playoff team without our best player, who would certainly have made a huge difference when conley was getting to the rim

Add Splitter fouled out who also did a great job protecting the rim... we just had terrible defenders there at the end.

[SenorSpur]

It's not an overraction to be concerned about this team's failure to get stops when they need them or this team consistently giving up wide open, game-winning looks to the opposition. And by the way, this issue didn't just surface tonight with Duncan and Leonard out.

[ElNono]

:lol

Hey, that was right when I wrote it :lol

[james evans]

Isnt Danny Green supposed to be good at defense?

dany green can't do a thing but hit open jump shots, and he can't even do that half the time. yep, 1st round exit.

[Brunodf]

Despite the improved defense, this team is worse than last year's. Too mentally weak and can't get stops or buckets in late game moments. Our ceiling is the Conference Finals...but we're not beating the Thunder...especially after we lose homecourt advantage in the coming week.
Overreacting, Health is the only thing keeping us from the Finals.

[Budkin]

Looks like we won't even win the regular season championship this year.

[ElNono]

It's not an overraction to be concerned about this team's failure to get stops when they need them or this team consistently giving up wide open, game-winning looks to the opposition. And by the way, this issue didn't just surface tonight with Duncan and Leonard out.

It surfaced last night? We beat the Clippers and Denver with stops the previous two games...

[Boomersgold]

He left his man wide open for the tying three on the possession prior. Pop responded by putting Danny Green in, who proceeded to choke, too.

True, but it wasn't just Neal that lost us this game. Bonner played poor defense down the stretch, and set weak-ass, ineffective screens that caused Parker to take horrendous shots (that missed) off of isos. Let's not forget Green's defense on Conley. Neal was part of the problem, but there were many other factors that gave the Grizzlies this game.

[Creation88]

Overreacting, Health is the only thing keeping us from the Finals.

everyone's been saying that since 2007. lol.

[Brunodf]

everyone's been saying that since 2007. lol.
So you do know that we are right.:toast

[Sean Cagney]

It's not an overraction to be concerned about this team's failure to get stops when they need them or this team consistently giving up wide open, game-winning looks to the opposition. And by the way, this issue didn't just surface tonight with Duncan and Leonard out.YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT........ It is not an overreaction it is reality.

[Sean Cagney]

So you do know that we are right.:toast

Last year they had health, so now you are not right.

[SenorSpur]

With Duncan out, this game serves as much of a testimony of his true greatness, as it also exposes the skill-level deficiency of the Spurs frontline players. The Spurs are in desparate need of a backup big who can rebound, block shots and defend the interior. Diaw, Bonner and Blair simply cannot cut it. Had the Grizzlies been more conscious of pounding the ball into Gasol and Z-bo, they likely would've won this game easily.

[Brunodf]

With Duncan out, this game serves as much of a testimony of his true greatness, as it also exposes the skill-level deficiency of the Spurs frontline players. The Spurs are in desparate need of a backup big who can rebound, block shots and defend the interior. Diaw, Bonner and Blair simply cannot cut it. Had the Grizzlies been more conscious of pounding the ball into Gasol and Z-bo, they likely would've won this game easily.
Pop won't play Baynes because wouldn't be fair to the team

[ElNono]

With Duncan out, this game serves as much of a testimony of his true greatness, as it also exposes the skill-level deficiency of the Spurs frontline players. The Spurs are in desparate need of a backup big who can rebound, block shots and defend the interior. Diaw, Bonner and Blair simply cannot cut it. Had the Grizzlies been more conscious of pounding the ball into Gasol and Z-bo, they likely would've won this game easily.

This I agree with. The vaunted depth really goes off a cliff when TD/Tiago get in foul trouble. ZBo has been horrible all year though. Don't know what happened to him.

[SenorSpur]

Pop won't play Baynes because wouldn't be fair to the team

Having piss-poor defensive players on the roster, specifically Bonner, isn't fair to the team either.

Good God, I can only hope this is his last year in a Spurs uniform. This failed experiement has gone on far too long.

[spurraider21]

Add Splitter fouled out who also did a great job protecting the rim... we just had terrible defenders there at the end.

This. Splitter's foul-out was bogus too. That loose ball foul was an atrocious call. He was getting hugged on the play. And yes, with Tim out that leaves a big hole along the frontline. I'm sure the Bulls would feel that way without Noah, the Grizz without Gasol, or the Lakers without Dwight. I actually thought this game would have gone a lot worse than it did

[SenorSpur]

This I agree with. The vaunted depth really goes off a cliff when TD/Tiago get in foul trouble. ZBo has been horrible all year though. Don't know what happened to him.

I didn't know Z-Bo was been struggling this year. As for this game, it's almost as though Z-Bo allowed his offensive struggles to affect his overall interest in the game. As for Gasol, I simply don't know why they didn't pound the ball into him to take advantage of the the absence of Duncan and the foul-proneness of Splitter?

[ElNono]

I didn't know Z-Bo was been struggling this year. As for this game, it's almost as though Z-Bo allowed his offensive struggles to affect his overall interest in the game. As for Gasol, I simply don't know why they didn't pound the ball into him to take advantage of the the absence of Duncan and the foul-proneness of Splitter?

Gasol had an abdominal tear about a week ago. I suspect he's playing through pain right now. Wouldn't surprise me if they're taking it lightly with him.

[TrainOfThought5]

Overreacting, Health is the only thing keeping us from the Finals.

you forgot consistent role players. and a starting 2 guard that doesnt leave his man wide open for three, and finishes at the rim. a PF that finishes strong at the rim and plays through contact. An all star PG that isnt instantly neutralized by long athletic defenders.

did i miss anything???

oh yeah, and a coach who'll play the best players.

[Ice009]

I am so fucking mad at these guys.

This team is just full of retards. Keep making the same mistake over and over again. How the fuck do you leave people open for 3 pointers when the game is on the line??????????????????

Fucking dumb motherfuckers.

I've lost all confidence in Danny Green in tight situations. He's not a great defender, didn't bother Conley at all on his drive to the hoop. Doesn't have the lateral quickness at all to cut off penetration.

These guys need to get their shit together.

I won't even bother saying anything about Gary Neal. He is the guy I could seriously punch in the face right now.

[therealtruth]

How the fuck do you leave people open for 3 pointers when the game is on the line??????????????????

Bad defense? At this point in the season you should be making less defensive mistakes than earlier in the season. Defense is all about repetition.

[superjames1992]

I am so fucking mad at these guys.

This team is just full of retards. Keep making the same mistake over and over again. How the fuck do you leave people open for 3 pointers when the game is on the line??????????????????

Fucking dumb motherfuckers.

I've lost all confidence in Danny Green in tight situations. He's not a great defender, didn't bother Conley at all on his drive to the hoop. Doesn't have the lateral quickness at all to cut off penetration.

These guys need to get their shit together.

I won't even bother saying anything about Gary Neal. He is the guy I could seriously punch in the face right now.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CdfW4oigtds/UCBgYKGQxmI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/U1ZeM7seras/s1600/why-so-serious.jpg

[SilverSpur]

I really believe they think their regular defense can stop last second shots. You have to bring in the all hands team like in football when they anticipate an onside kick. Bring in your fresh, fastest players to guard for the last few seconds. You can't expect players who have been running around on defense to chase the ball with worn out legs

[TD 21]

You're overracting... this team was missing their top 3 players and their top 2 defenders... overall, it was a valiant effort...

It was another late meltdown/pathetic choke job. For a veteran team, in late March-early April to continually be failing to execute and to not even look poised, is both telling and alarming.

I think a lot of you guys are just in denial that another promising season is going to end prematurely, but deep down, you've got to see all the signs too. Once again, basically everything that could have went wrong has. This is why they needed to get it done last season.

[Sean Cagney]

I am so fucking mad at these guys.

This team is just full of retards. Keep making the same mistake over and over again. How the fuck do you leave people open for 3 pointers when the game is on the line??????????????????

Fucking dumb motherfuckers.

I've lost all confidence in Danny Green in tight situations. He's not a great defender, didn't bother Conley at all on his drive to the hoop. Doesn't have the lateral quickness at all to cut off penetration.

These guys need to get their shit together.

I won't even bother saying anything about Gary Neal. He is the guy I could seriously punch in the face right now.
Real shit ICE, truth. Forget who replies with some stupid response to this because it is the truth!

[spurraider21]

Tbh its tough to protect the rim when neither Tim nor Tiago is in the game. If Green sagged, Conley would have just pulled up, and considering he had just hit a 3, he was probably feeling it. Green played it right by staying close. Now, if you put a 6'6 SG on a point guard who gets good penetration, its going to be near impossible for Green to be low/quick enough to contend with him. By forcing him to drive rather than pull up, it puts the onus on the big men to come over and help, which is something Tim has been tremendous at this season. Unfortunately, with Tim out and Tiago fouled out, it was guys like Boris and Bonner rotating.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

DP

[SpurSpurSpurs]

I was ignoring this thread for the past few months. Now, I am worried about this issue. I can't believe we are ranked 3rd in D, but it doesn't show when I watch games. It's ridiculous! Most of the recent losses are from last second shots!

[therealtruth]

Tbh its tough to protect the rim when neither Tim nor Tiago is in the game. If Green sagged, Conley would have just pulled up, and considering he had just hit a 3, he was probably feeling it. Green played it right by staying close. Now, if you put a 6'6 SG on a point guard who gets good penetration, its going to be near impossible for Green to be low/quick enough to contend with him. By forcing him to drive rather than pull up, it puts the onus on the big men to come over and help, which is something Tim has been tremendous at this season. Unfortunately, with Tim out and Tiago fouled out, it was guys like Boris and Bonner rotating.

Too bad there weren't any 7ft 260 lb shot blockers on the bench.

[Ice009]

Real shit ICE, truth. Forget who replies with some stupid response to this because it is the truth!

Not passing the ball to Jax on that 2 on 1 fast break was maybe worse than leaving Conley open at the end of the game. What a stupid, stupid decision. That play showed how selfish he really is.

He's probably been watching Kobe play, plus he's been wearing Kobe's shoes most of the season. I guess I shouldn't be surprised with how selfish he's been at times, seems like he has a Kobe like attitude to team ball. Someone needs to give him some Lebron tapes so he can learn how to make Basketball plays for his teammates.

[Va Spur]

Agreed on Neal. Can not believe he doesn't make that pass-- only Spur on the team who doesn't make that pass.

On Pop-- who I love-- Why is neal on the floor coming out of the deadball to play that bad D. Why not Green on an Off-Def switch. Why put leave him out there then.
Horrible defending instincts-- sucked into the paint when he can't possibly get to the ball to leave a good 3pt shooter open.

[hater]

these fools are still too scared to foul in the last minutes. I rather have them beat you at the line than drop a 3 on your face.

[Va Spur]

Not as worried about protection at the rim on that last shot-- as to why Green sets up defensively on that play (like he always does) giving so much room to the left. It is curious and off against a righty-- against the LEFTY Conley- just plain stupid. watched the replay again-- he runs out and gives him the lane to the LEFT.

[Sean Cagney]

Not passing the ball to Jax on that 2 on 1 fast break was maybe worse than leaving Conley open at the end of the game. What a stupid, stupid decision. That play showed how selfish he really is.

He's probably been watching Kobe play, plus he's been wearing Kobe's shoes most of the season. I guess I shouldn't be surprised with how selfish he's been at times. seems like he has a Kobe like attitude to team ball. Someone needs to give him some Lebron tapes so he can learn how to make Basketball plays for his teammates.
It is sickening! I am just as mad as you tonight, livid! Tim and Leonard out and you can win a key game like this! DO IT! Not to mention off the heals of yesterdays choke job, instead they do two choke jobs in a row! Great #1 seed up in the air and you pull this crap again SPURS! Not GOOD. I would not be shocked if #1 seed is fully gone when we meet the Thunder again this week.

[SenorSpur]

From Mike Conley to Chris Bosh to James Harden to Jarrett Jack to Mo Williams, the list of guys killing the Spurs witih game-winning shots keeps growing.

[Chris16]

From Mike Conley to Chris Bosh to James Harden to Jarrett Jack to Mo Williams, the list of guys killing the Spurs witih game-winning shots keeps growing.

Don't forget the Suns and Jazz hitting game tying 3's on the Spurs.

[Chris16]

you forgot consistent role players. and a starting 2 guard that doesnt leave his man wide open for three, and finishes at the rim. a PF that finishes strong at the rim and plays through contact. An all star PG that isnt instantly neutralized by long athletic defenders.

did i miss anything???

oh yeah, and a coach who'll play the best players.

The Spurs were healthy last year and didn't make the Finals. This franchise loses more with homecourt advantage than any other team in their franchises history.

[Brunodf]

This thread jinxed us tbh

[Sean Cagney]

From Mike Conley to Chris Bosh to James Harden to Jarrett Jack to Mo Williams, the list of guys killing the Spurs witih game-winning shots keeps growing.

This is not even the Spurs anymore to me, these are the SPARES...... This is not the real team who made stops and hit big shots and won titles! This version of the team is a flat out joke despite their record! You know at the end of games what is going to happen if it is close more than 50% of the time, Spurs miss a stupid ISO shot with 7 seconds left or so, other team gets the ball and wins the game on their clutch shot. With under a minute to go this team sucks, hell sometimes even further out than a minute to go.

[Sean Cagney]

This thread jinxed us tbh

No, it was just the truth about this garbage ass team in the clutch. They are good for most of the game, when it hits later on around a minute or so less they are garbage! This is our reality now.

[Johnny RIngo]

This franchise loses more with homecourt advantage than any other team in their franchises history.

Larry Bird Celtics lost quite a bit with homecourt

[look_at_g_shred]

Instead of double teaming the guy with the ball, how bout they all just stay with their man?

[phxspurfan]

Larry Bird Celtics lost quite a bit with homecourt

90s Knicks too

against

Pacers

Bulls

Rockettes