Manu Ginoturnover

[dwayne shintzius]

Can we blame a slump with decision making? Same mistakes/decisions against playoff teams won't cut it; this isn't a Manu hate thread either- we all in here see it; his decision making is atrocious

[racm]

It's mental at this point. Probably distracted by his coming Reddit AMA.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sure nobody knows how badly he's playing more than he does. He also knows he dodged a bullet for his team tonight. I expect him to work through it sooner than later as a result of that.

[Obstructed_View]

If I were the coach I'd start him just for the change of scenery. Also because I'd start my best players, but that's just me.

[TheGoldStandard]

Can't start him or you'd have to sit Danny Green and he seems pretty fragile.

[SA210]

If I were the coach I'd start him just for the change of scenery. Also because I'd start my best players, but that's just me.

This 100% :tu

[TMTTRIO]

I thought about starting him so he doesn't come in cold after sitting on the bench for several minutes and so that he doesn't have to handle the ball as much. On the other hand Danny is playing great and I would hate to hurt his confidence. He obviously can't bring it off the bench like he used to that made him a great 6th man.

[Sean Cagney]

He has been horrible lately, his stupid passes all over the place and his shots good lord. I will still take him on this team anyday but he has been really bad as of late. This is not his year lol. He is fully healthy too so right now it's mental, what you see is what you get though.

[Bruno]

Turnobili >>>>> Ginoturnover.

[ElNono]

As long as we keep on winning... Non-Issue

[Obstructed_View]

Can't start him or you'd have to sit Danny Green and he seems pretty fragile.

Then he's not capable of starting for a championship team.

[dwayne shintzius]

If I were the coach I'd start him just for the change of scenery. Also because I'd start my best players, but that's just me.

What's starting him gonna do? Add to his to total? It's who's on the floor at the end of a close game that counts - he's a vet; pop needs to be a coach and not be a Manu fan; Green is in a better groove and he's hitting his shot and plays D. Pop shouldn't hesitate to yank Manu if he continues to force things

[ElNono]

What's starting him gonna do? Add to his to total? It's who's on the floor at the end of a close game that counts - he's a vet; pop needs to be a coach and not be a Manu fan; Green is in a better groove and he's hitting his shot and plays D. Pop shouldn't hesitate to yank Manu if he continues to force things

Too predictable, and removes a ball handler... you trap Tony and nobody else can handle the rock. Manu can be playing like shit, but he still commands much more attention than Green.

[Obstructed_View]

What's starting him gonna do? Add to his to total? It's who's on the floor at the end of a close game that counts - he's a vet; pop needs to be a coach and not be a Manu fan; Green is in a better groove and he's hitting his shot and plays D. Pop shouldn't hesitate to yank Manu if he continues to force things

Yeah, let's not do anything to help the guy who can go on a monster tear as one of the best players in the league because Danny Green is in a groove.

[AusSpur]

it was a bad game by Ginobilli but I think people are overreacting. His playmaking is still crucial to the second unit.

[TMTTRIO]

I'm not sure I like Manu as Sixth Man anymore. The only reason he's been that for years is for the spark of energy that he brings off the bench. Now as he's getting older he can't do that anymore and I think I even heard him say in his interview the other day is it's harder now because he comes in cold from sitting on that bench for a while. Of course it probably affects his mental status too.

[dwayne shintzius]

Yeah, let's not do anything to help the guy who can go on a monster tear as one of the best players in the league because Danny Green is in a groove.
Yep you read that correctly; like I said he's on the floor when it counts; if he continues to make the same mistakes, just bc he's Manu you're saying Pop shouldn't act accordingly and pull him? If the Spurs lost this game his decision making would be magnified - what's worrisome is his decision making hasn't seen any improvement

[mercos]

He has been slumping lately. Prior to this down period, he was playing great though. Could be personal problems, mid-season malaise, etc. I'm not worried. I fully expect him to be in true Manu form come playoff time.

[Obstructed_View]

Yep you read that correctly; like I said he's on the floor when it counts; if he continues to make the same mistakes, just bc he's Manu you're saying Pop shouldn't act accordingly and pull him? If the Spurs lost this game his decision making would be magnified - what's worrisome is his decision making hasn't seen any improvement

If you're the coach of this team, what are you playing for? You know there's no president's trophy in the NBA, right?

Benching him during crunch time of a regular season game doesn't really help the team. If you want a title, you figure out a way to shake him up so that he produces or you hope he works his way through it. Either of those are going to require him to be on the court. He's not fighting a nagging injury, he's just not playing very well.

Tell him tonight that he's starting against Harden on Sunday. Problem solved.

[DapDaGenius]

Turnobili >>>>> Ginoturnover.

[superjames1992]

He's coasting until the Playoffs, tbh.

[SpurPadre]

He's coasting until the Playoffs, tbh.

So, you're saying he's pulling a Robert Horry? Hmm, I fucking hope so. He's shown some sparks of the old Manu here and there, especially that nice dunk against the Cavs last week but he hasn't put in a full 4 quarters of quality work in a long time.

[spursparker9]

Nah, Ginobili is not the Horry's type. He needs to practise and see results to gain confidence.

He is definitely not coasting.

[Sean Cagney]

Nah, Ginobili is not the Horry's type. He needs to practise and see results to gain confidence.

He is definitely not coasting.

I agree he is not mentally like Horry! He needs to gain confidence as you said, right now he appears to have none and it shows.

[therealtruth]

The only real issue with starting Ginobili is it takes away from Parker's aggressiveness. Maybe if Ginobili can play off the ball more when he starts that could help.

[spurraider21]

Really? Ginoturnover? I think Turnobili was the official "bad Manu" name

[heyheymymy]

It's mental at this point. Probably distracted by his coming Reddit AMA.

when is that? those amas are great.

[Chinook]

To be honest, starting him is a horrible idea. Not only does that risk hurting Green (who despite some opinions in this thread is playing much better in that spot than Ginobili would), but it adds another ball-handler (read: ball-dominator) to the starting line-up. So that means that Parker's going to get the ball less, which is bad because he's the best as driving and kicking out to teammates. But it also takes away any chance that Leonard gets his touches. It doesn't make sense to risk derailing two other players just to improve Ginobili.

More importantly, if Pop starts Ginobili, he's tacitly admitting that Manu is NOT one of his best players. Let's face it: The starting line-up doesn't need him, so putting him there would only be to improve his numbers by having better players around him. Last night showed that Ginobyl can contaminate even an otherwise productive unit, so I don't know how much it'd help. I'd be okay with starting him next season, so long as the Spurs went out and got a proven veteran scorer at the three and/or the five to bring off the bench with Green. But the team is not constructed in a way to make Ginobili a starter, and Manu himself doesn't have the appropriate mentality right now to blend his game with the starting unit's.

[SenorSpur]

I agree with the original poster and it's about time this issue was discussed. We can make apologies for Manu and say that he's in a slump, or perhaps he's lost his mojo or even his confidence. Some or maybe all of this is true. Yet, there is one inescapable, undisputeable fact about Manu's performance that cannot be denied or covered up - his decision-making. There is absolutely NO excuse for him to be making the conscious on-court basketball decisions that he's been making.

Forget this most recent gaffe at the end of regulation. Recall the OKC game, when the Spurs were needing to run clock to preserve the win. Yet Manu is aggressively throwing the ball willy-nilly up and around the court - sometimes to no one. In essence, giving the Thunder extra possessions. One would have to assume that Manu knew the situation, after all he is one of the most intelligent players on the team. Yet, he committed the gaffes anyway. After seeing enough, Pop called timeout. I remembered watching Pop look inexplicably at Manu as he sat down with a look of "what are you thinking?"

As for the Jazz game, it was yet another circus of bad passes at teammates legs, ill-advised shots and costly turnovers. Still, his decision to switch off Marvin Williams, in a situation where the Jazz needing a three to send the game into overtime, to instead go double Al Jefferson at the top of the key, giving Williams a wide-open look from beyond the arc, was totally inexcusaable.

It was Manu's most brain-dead decision since he elected to foul Dirk Nowitizki, on his way to the hoop, giving him a basket and a foul, in the waning moments of regulation in Game 7 of the 2006 WCSF. Recall that Manu foul, resulting in the "and-1" on Dirk, allowed the Mavs to tie the game, Dirk hits that free throw, sending it into overtime, where the eventually Spurs lost, 119-111. Again, Manu's decision to foul made no sense in the situation because if he gives Dirk the layup, the Spurs are still up by one, in the waning seconds, and the Mavs have then have to foul. In my mind, that one single play cost the Spurs a chance at a WCF series against the Phoenix Suns, and a legitimate shot at a possible NBA Championship showdown date with the eventual champion Miami Heat, which could've possibly resulted in giving the Spurs their first back-to-back championship. A play that still haunts me to this very day.

Back to the present, the Manu situation puts Pop in a bit of a dilemma because he still elects to put the ball in Manu's hands a lot. Pop still elects to entrust Manu the same responsibilities in late-game situations as he did when Manu was younger. However, it's clear that Manu's mistakes and decision-making are sometimes costing the Spurs valuable possessions and making harder for them to overcome not only the opposition, but also their own mistakes. The Spurs may be able to survive these errors against the mediocre teams of the NBA, but there is no way they can consistently and carelessly give away possessions against playoff teams like the Grizzlies, Thunder and Heat and expect to be victorious in a 7-game series.

We all love Manu and he's been great player for the Spurs. Yet, it's clear that he is now a once-great player in decline. However he's also not a rookie. He's an intelligent, seasoned, veteran player, who has been great for most of his career, at every professional level. He's also a sure-fire HOFer. Whatever he's lost in athleticism, quickness and skill, there certainly should not be a decline in decision-making and on-court intelligence. Of course, the good thing is no one knows this any better than Manu himself.

[bklynspursfan]

Ginobili obviously hasn't been himself but let's not put it all on him. This team as a whole has been really bad turning over the ball in recent months. It's something they all need to fix collectively

[TampaDude]

In my mind, that one single play cost the Spurs a chance at a WCF series against the Phoenix Suns, and a legitimate shot at a possible NBA Championship showdown date with the eventual champion Miami Heat, which could've possibly resulted in giving the Spurs their first back-to-back championship. A play that still haunts me to this very day.

We would have lost to the Heat in the 2006 Finals. D-Whistle would have lived at the stripe against us just like he did against the Mavs.

There, now...don't you feel better? :king

[jjktkk]

For whatever reasons, injuries, age, Ginobili isn't the same player. But I wouldn't change his role right now. Pop still hasn't even figured out his backup pg rotation, so trying to figure out Ginobili's role just adds to the inconsistant g rotation. I would rather have a consistant rotation now, with the playoffs just around the corner.

[2centsworth]

Best thing Turnobili can do is focus on his jump shooting. I think his misfires are affecting his confidence. In addition, he needs to stop all the Globetrotter crap, for eveyr nice pass he has 3 bad ones. In his heyday, the opposite was true.

[will_spurs]

Maybe if he could stop trying to make a play worth of BSPN highlights each and every time, he'd turn the ball over less...

[Spurs 4 The Win]

We would have lost to the Heat in the 2006 Finals. D-Whistle would have lived at the stripe against us just like he did against the Mavs.

There, now...don't you feel better? :king

Lol, we wouldve swept them.
However winning a title in 06 might have hurt our chances to wim im 07 so ill live with this one but not the 0.4 shot

[therealtruth]

In my mind, that one single play cost the Spurs a chance at a WCF series against the Phoenix Suns, and a legitimate shot at a possible NBA Championship showdown date with the eventual champion Miami Heat, which could've possibly resulted in giving the Spurs their first back-to-back championship. A play that still haunts me to this very day.

To be fair to Ginobili, the Spurs would never have gotten to that position without Ginobili's play. They were down 3-1 and then tied the series and then they got the lead in game 7 of a Ginobili 3. To me the bigger issue in the series was the Spurs spotting the Mavs game 2. They just didn't show up for that game. Also Pop trying to play small ball to adjust to the Mavs didn't help.

[SenorSpur]

To be fair to Ginobili, the Spurs would never have gotten to that position without Ginobili's play. They were down 3-1 and then tied the series and then they got the lead in game 7 of a Ginobili 3. To me the bigger issue in the series was the Spurs spotting the Mavs game 2. They just didn't show up for that game. Also Pop trying to play small ball to adjust to the Mavs didn't help.

All that is very true. Still, committing an unnecessary foul on the Mavs best player, giving him an "and-1", in that situation is still inexcusable. Give the guy the uncontested layup. You're still up by one. Force the Mavs to foul the rest of the way and go home with the win.

[EVAY]

All that is very true. Still, committing an unnecessary foul on the Mavs best player, giving him an "and-1", in that situation is still inexcusable. Give the guy the uncontested layup. You're still up by one. Force the Mavs to foul the rest of the way and go home with the win.

As 'therealtruth' indicated, that game was lost until just before that play when Manu hit a 3 pointer to put us up by 3.

You may or may not remember Steve Javie officiating that game. Javie always had a love affair with Dirk and the Mavs, and was particularly kind to them on the road. I was at the game that you are talking about, holding my granddaughter in my arms as Ginobili hit the go-ahead three. Then, before anything else happened, I remember thinking to myself, "Javie is still gonna find a way to give this game to Dallas". So, although you are right that the attempt to stop a two point shot when we were up by three was bone-headed, I will never be convinced that Javie wouldn't have found a way to call a foul anyway.

Lots of folks here have the saying that Manu gives and Manu takes away, and that is all true, and has always been true. That game was the most perfect example of that that there ever was. Manu had put us ahead, and then Manu let them back in. It is a package deal with him. He has ever been thus. These days he struggles more than he used to to have his good outweigh his bad. But he CAN be great again.

Let him have some help with the second unit and he can deliver what he has so often in the past; a bench unit that not only maintains the lead but often expands it.
If neither Splitter nor Duncan is on the floor with the second unit, Manu has to try too hard by himself to do it all. If he has some confidence in the guys he has around him, he calms down and plays better.

You can't start him...he and Tony provide too much of the same thing for the offense. At the end of games they can both be on the floor at the same time because the defense has to honor both of them for shooting. But during the game, we have to have him running the floor and figuring out the best possible play. Neither of the back-up point guards can do that yet as well as Manu can do it.

[Brunodf]

Ginobili was playing well before his last injury, i don't know what happened, he seems off balance/out of control every time now

[emanueldavidginobili]

Honestly I would prefer Manu to start. He was so more affective as the 6th man because he was really athletic, spry, and gave us that jolt of energy off the bench, that's not the case for him anymore. Also if he starts he will already be warmed up because of warm ups he wont be cold just sitting on the bench waiting for his name to be called. Either way its not his health its a mental thing I don't know what it is I don't know if its the twins getting no sleep at night or confidence. There is a lot of people being critical of him right now but I know Manu is being critical of himself right now and is probably being hard on himself, But I will never count out Manu ginobili

[callo1]

No doubt that Manu hasn't been himself lately. I really think the emergence of KL and Green have made it harder for him to get into a flow, so he is forcing things. Having to play the point didn't help.

Manu will be fine come playoffs...book it!!!