Who here misses Richard Jefferson?

[anonoftheinternets]

:lol I still don't, but its just interesting that despite Stephen Jackson stinking it up on offense this year, we're still glad to see the back of RJ.

[Drachen]

I don't, I still like jax better. See Jefferson brought nothing to the table. Hell, even Bonner is a likable guy so even those who can't stand his play are probably going to miss him a little when he is gone. Jefferson didn't even have that.

[Libri]

It's all about the playoffs for Jack.

[elemento]

We have 11 million reasons to be happy about RJ gone

[Trainwreck2100]

even if RJ was free I wouldn't want him on this team

[Spurs Brazil]

Fuck Jefferson

[Shastafarian]

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/1872-2/luke-walton-full_getty-71796590sd004_ca_phoenix_su_11_23_04_pm.jpg

[lakerhaterade]

glad the stench of that waste is gone..

[SenorSpur]

Is it any wonder that RJ didn't even sniff any 2nd half minutes in the recent game versus the Spurs? His less-than-inspired play, along with his bloated contract, have obviously become as much the albatross for the Warriors, as it was for the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

:lol I still don't, but its just interesting that despite Stephen Jackson stinking it up on offense this year, we're still glad to see the back of RJ.

Jefferson might have been the worst defensive swing this team has had since Derek Anderson.

[Seventyniner]

Who is this "Richard Jefferson" you refer to?

[Kuestmaster]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ELFl2_1q7DI/TObn1HnV2fI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/5JkvAtpbv7k/s1600/Not_sure_if_serious.jpg

[pgardn]

I miss the elation experienced when it was confirmed we got rid of him.

[Spur Bank]

I'll bite. I miss the way he handled the hatred directed at him from Spurs fans -- with class. I thought that was great to see.

Doesn't mean the trade wasn't great, or that he should be on the roster, or any of that. Just thought that given the circumstances, he had a good attitude.

[007nites]

Don't know who you guys are talking about

[Uriel]

He hit 40% of his 3's. If Jack shot that well from deep, we'd lead the league in 3 point % like we did.....last season when RJ was still around.

[admiralsnackbar]

If we want a defensive liability that can shoot in the 40's, we have Gary Neal at a fraction of the cost. Jackson may not be a bargain (and he still can't cross it over consistently without dribbling off his foot after... how many years now?) but he can play both sides of the court for spot minutes, he matches up well against the stretch 3/4s that used to routinely shellack us, and he seems to bring the team closer together instead of further apart as RJ seemed to IMO.

Also, while I hate to invoke the catchphrase, Jackson brings "the nasty."

[racm]

He hit 40% of his 3's. If Jack shot that well from deep, we'd lead the league in 3 point % like we did.....last season when RJ was still around.

And he gave up as many 3s as he shot, tbh.

[tim_duncan_fan]

And he gave up as many 3s as he shot, tbh.

And 3 times as many as he made. Plus, he dumped his hot fiance to go on a sausage-fest cruise. And he's a choker. And no one on the team liked him.

[siraulo23]

if you're really a spurs fan, you dont miss HWSNBN

[HarlemHeat37]

I said it at the time of the trade, Jackson wasn't going to be a significant on-court upgrade over Jefferson..Jackson is the most overrated player in SpursTalk history, tbh..

His upgrade over Jefferson is obviously toughness, particularly in the playoffs, along with better defense and ability to effectively run an alternative small-ball lineup..Jefferson's departure was addition by subtraction, regardless, tbh..

Also, to be fair, Jackson performed better than Jefferson would have in last year's WCFs..

[ElNono]

I was gonna say, Jack was one of the better players in the WCF last season... and for all the 'nutjob' talk pre-trade, he's been very accepting of his reduced role on the team...

People forget very quickly how every two weeks we would have some talk of "what's wrong with RJ", "needs more touches", "needs plays called for him", "why doesn't he drive", and all that BS...

[racm]

I was gonna say, Jack was one of the better players in the WCF last season... and for all the 'nutjob' talk pre-trade, he's been very accepting of his reduced role on the team...

People forget very quickly how every two weeks we would have some talk of "what's wrong with RJ", "needs more touches", "needs plays called for him", "why doesn't he drive", and all that BS...

And IMO it's not just about trading RJ for Jack, but also giving Leonard the starting SF spot. He took that opportunity and ran away with it.

[Spur-Addict]

even if RJ was free I wouldn't want him on this team

[Kool Bob Love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYoOX9Fd3Fs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4jdUFiyn8

[-21-]

Jack gives us street cred.

[mystargtr34]

RJ just had this mentally draining affect.. the team could go 30-52 without RJ and it would still be more fun than having that fagget out there and choking during the playoffs and costing the Spurs a series.

[spursparker9]

Richard Jefferson is so good that even POP said he will resign if the Spurs didn't win the championship.

[racm]

RJ just had this mentally draining affect.. the team could go 30-52 without RJ and it would still be more fun than having that fagget out there and choking during the playoffs and costing the Spurs a series.

Except having Tim Duncan guarantees 50 wins. That said RJ's biggest problem was that 1. he was overpaid and 2. couldn't pull his own weight in crunch time.

[Sean Cagney]

I don't, I still like jax better. See Jefferson brought nothing to the table. Hell, even Bonner is a likable guy so even those who can't stand his play are probably going to miss him a little when he is gone. Jefferson didn't even have that.

I agree but I don't know Bonner personally so I WILL NOT MISS him at all when he is gone from the SPURS LOL, just want him gone like RJ. I remember when his contract was up and I thought that was the end of him here! Then they resign Bonner and I nearly cried lol. Dick though don't miss him at all, he sucked.

[Sean Cagney]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYoOX9Fd3Fs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4jdUFiyn8Too bad he did not do that more often.
He hit 40% of his 3's. If Jack shot that well from deep, we'd lead the league in 3 point % like we did.....last season when RJ was still around.

Yeah, then miss the damn threes in the playoffs like we or he did when he was here. I would not take that 40% crap back for a thing! It was fools gold for later on folding. Jax played his butt off last year in the WCF, Jefferson would have been on the damn bench and the team would have been blown out in game 6 from the get go.

[Kidd K]

Jackson is dead last on the team in: PER, TS%, eFG%, ORtg, OWS, WS/48. . .and even in defensive rating, he's tied for 11th, above only Diaw, Bonner, and the team's point guards. Last year he was only above the scrubs in most of those same categories.

RJ's defense may suck, but at least he actually hits his open shots. The difference between RJ's TS% last year and Jackson's this year is literally almost 100 points (88).

I don't miss RJ, but I sure as hell am not happy with his replacement; Jackson. Fortunately, we traded for the pick to get Kawhi Leonard who is much better than both players right now, and is improving to possibly be better than either of those guys ever were.

[therealtruth]

Jax had a much better playoffs than RJ ever had with the exception of a couple of games in '10.

[exstatic]

Jackson is dead last on the team in: PER, TS%, eFG%, ORtg, OWS, WS/48. . .and even in defensive rating, he's tied for 11th, above only Diaw, Bonner, and the team's point guards. Last year he was only above the scrubs in most of those same categories.

RJ's defense may suck, but at least he actually hits his open shots. The difference between RJ's TS% last year and Jackson's this year is literally almost 100 points (88).

I don't miss RJ, but I sure as hell am not happy with his replacement; Jackson. Fortunately, we traded for the pick to get Kawhi Leonard who is much better than both players right now, and is improving to possibly be better than either of those guys ever were.

??? Jack isn't the RJ replacement. Our new starting SF is Kawhi. Jack's purpose in the trade was to reduce payroll down the line. ANYTHING he brings on the court is a bonus. We traded a LATE first round pick for a player and a reduction of payroll on the order of $11M next season. Jack got us that.

[Cane]

Jax also been going through some serious personal stuff

Sjax is an intangible upgrade but goddammit please no more technicals in the playoffs

[eDizzle20]

The biggest part of the trade is that Jackson's contract is off the books 1-year earlier meaning the Spurs have some cap space after this season.

[szkorhetz]

Jax had a much better playoffs than RJ ever had with the exception of a couple of games in '10.
You can hate RJ, but don't fucking lie...
http://i46.tinypic.com/35hju39.jpg

[timtonymanu]

I only thank RJ for his contribution in Game 2 against the Mavericks, but he was pretty useless other than that.

It's obvious, but I don't miss him. If he was still here, Kawhi will still be coming off the bench and wouldn't have developed his game as much as he has now.

I also don't think the Spurs finish 1st last year and even reach the WCF with Jefferson. Before the trade, they were behind OKC in the standings which means they may have ended up with the 2 seed and been bounced by the Lakers in the 2nd round.

I'm a big Jack defender, but he sucks this year. Still, that is much better than having RJ start every game just for the sake of making him feel better about his confidence.

[timtonymanu]

Yeah, then miss the damn threes in the playoffs like we or he did when he was here. I would not take that 40% crap back for a thing! It was fools gold for later on folding. Jax played his butt off last year in the WCF, Jefferson would have been on the damn bench and the team would have been blown out in game 6 from the get go.

Spurs wouldn't have made it to the WCF with Jefferson on the roster, tbh.

[ElNono]

Jackson is dead last on the team in: PER, TS%, eFG%, ORtg, OWS, WS/48. . .and even in defensive rating, he's tied for 11th, above only Diaw, Bonner, and the team's point guards. Last year he was only above the scrubs in most of those same categories.

And last year he shot 53% from 2 and 60% from 3 during the playoffs. I don't think *any* other Spur shot that well, including the big 3.


RJ's defense may suck, but at least he actually hits his open shots. The difference between RJ's TS% last year and Jackson's this year is literally almost 100 points (88).

I don't miss RJ, but I sure as hell am not happy with his replacement; Jackson. Fortunately, we traded for the pick to get Kawhi Leonard who is much better than both players right now, and is improving to possibly be better than either of those guys ever were.

Yet we're again a 50+ wins team, #1 in the West without the extra meaningless regular season 100 pts.

What people like you skip over is the fact that Pop wouldn't start Kawhi to try not to hurt RJ's feelings. That was automatically solved when Jack came in and embraced the bench role.

Jack is a major part of Kawhi seeing his role evolved this season.

[Sean Cagney]

Spurs wouldn't have made it to the WCF with Jefferson on the roster, tbh.
So you don't think they beat Utah or Clipps? Or you don't think we get the first seed and play either of those teams and get a tougher road?

[Mel_13]

So you don't think they beat Utah or Clipps? Or you don't think we get the first seed and play either of those teams and get a tougher road?

28-13 before the trade, 22-3 after the trade. Without the trade, they likely get the 2 seed and have to go through the Mavs and the Lakers to get to the WCF.

[anonoftheinternets]

??? Jack isn't the RJ replacement. Our new starting SF is Kawhi. Jack's purpose in the trade was to reduce payroll down the line. ANYTHING he brings on the court is a bonus. We traded a LATE first round pick for a player and a reduction of payroll on the order of $11M next season. Jack got us that.

Going by that Kawhi would have started at SF in any case. So then it becomes RJ on the bench vs SJ on the bench. Of course the payroll reason trumps everything, but started this thread to compare on court output from RJ & SJ.

[anonoftheinternets]

28-13 before the trade, 22-3 after the trade. Without the trade, they likely get the 2 seed and have to go through the Mavs and the Lakers to get to the WCF.

I think Diaw was a huge part of this as well. So its not as cut and dry to credit SJ for the 22-3 un.

[timtonymanu]

So you don't think they beat Utah or Clipps? Or you don't think we get the first seed and play either of those teams and get a tougher road?

They were the 2nd seed before the Jefferson trade. It was the Jack trade + Diaw acquisition and the team raising their confidence that led to the 10 game winning streak in the regular season that gave them the 1st seed.

It may have been possible that they make the WCF considering how weak the West was last year outside of the Thunder and Spurs. I'm not sure they would have taken the Lakers out with Jefferson on the team. Dallas always plays them tough too so the Spurs could have struggled greatly against them.

[Mel_13]

I think Diaw was a huge part of this as well. So its not as cut and dry to credit SJ for the 22-3 un.

I didn't do that. I credited the lack of RJ. Adding Diaw would still have had value, but subtracting RJ was the indispensable factor. Even without adding Jack, the trade resulted in Leonard replacing RJ in the starting lineup (as ElNono pointed out.)

[Budkin]

He should retire.

[TMT®]

Not even slightly.

[anonoftheinternets]

I didn't do that. I credited the lack of RJ. Adding Diaw would still have had value, but subtracting RJ was the indispensable factor. Even without adding Jack, the trade resulted in Leonard replacing RJ in the starting lineup (as ElNono pointed out.)


What people like you skip over is the fact that Pop wouldn't start Kawhi to try not to hurt RJ's feelings. That was automatically solved when Jack came in and embraced the bench role.

Exactly, i don't i agree with that. The move to start Leonard was independent of RJ vs SJ, he just needed a year that's all. I really doubt that he would have trouble dislodging RJ from the starting spot. Or that pop would have continued to start RJ after Leonard had a year in the system.

[thOOdee]

proof is in the pudding. WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS. that alone gives jax alot of room to mess up.

[Mel_13]

Exactly, i don't i agree with that. The move to start Leonard was independent of RJ vs SJ, he just needed a year that's all. I really doubt that he would have trouble dislodging RJ from the starting spot. Or that pop would have continued to start RJ after Leonard had a year in the system.

He moved into the starting on a permanent basis in the first game after the trade. That's a simple fact.

[Kidd K]

And last year he shot 53% from 2 and 60% from 3 during the playoffs. I don't think *any* other Spur shot that well, including the big 3.



Yet we're again a 50+ wins team, #1 in the West without the extra meaningless regular season 100 pts.

What people like you skip over is the fact that Pop wouldn't start Kawhi to try not to hurt RJ's feelings. That was automatically solved when Jack came in and embraced the bench role.

Jack is a major part of Kawhi seeing his role evolved this season.

So you're saying Jackson doesn't even try until the playoffs? Rather than the more than likely scenerio: he just got lucky from three during the playoffs. I'm not going to sit here and "hope" that Jackson suddenly plays twice as good as he has all season just because the playoffs hit. He isn't going to shoot 60% from three again. He's not even shooting 30% now. 36.8% from field, 27% from three., as many turnovers as assists, etc.

As for the last part, the Spurs 50+ wins this year have little to do with Jackson's production. We were getting 50 wins with RJ despite all the extra injuries we had, which is the real reason we were low 50s, not RJ. What people like you (RJ haters/Jackson defenders) seem to skip over, is that RJ doesn't force Pop to play him. That's Pop's choice.

I agree that Jack's a major part of seeing Kawhi's role evolve though. . .because Jack's been so terrible, there's barely any decision that needs to be made for who should be getting most of the minutes.

[cjw]

Spurs wouldn't have made it to the WCF with Jefferson on the roster, tbh.

Overreact much? 8-0 doesn't turn into a loss in either of those series with RJ in place of Jax. It's not like Utah / LAC had a wing that was tough to guard. Where Jax did save us was in valuable minutes against Durant and his Game 6 threes.

[ElNono]

So you're saying Jackson doesn't even try until the playoffs? Rather than the more than likely scenerio: he just got lucky from three during the playoffs. I'm not going to sit here and "hope" that Jackson suddenly plays twice as good as he has all season just because the playoffs hit. He isn't going to shoot 60% from three again. He's not even shooting 30% now. 36.8% from field, 27% from three., as many turnovers as assists, etc.

I don't know about that. Jackson certainly isn't the only NBA player that coasted in the regular season, especially veterans. The "pulling a Horry" phrase didn't come out of thin air.

He also battled with a broken finger for most of the season. The least I'm going to do seeing last season's numbers is give him the benefit of the doubt.


As for the last part, the Spurs 50+ wins this year have little to do with Jackson's production. We were getting 50 wins with RJ despite all the extra injuries we had, which is the real reason we were low 50s, not RJ. What people like you (RJ haters/Jackson defenders) seem to skip over, is that RJ doesn't force Pop to play him. That's Pop's choice.

I completely agree that RJ was not the reason we had 50 wins... and frankly if getting rid of him and moving Kawhi up the ladder meant we had to win only 48 games this season, so be it.

As far as the issue of Pop decisions and RJ's feelings is concerned, they're simply a single intertwined issue. Pop wouldn't demote RJ because RJ had a frail ego full of excuses, and he needed him at least in a backup role.

Let me know the next time Jack starts saying stuff like this:

"Anybody who watches the game with an intelligent eye can see I was doing a lot of things I had never done over the course of my career,"� he says. "I’ve never guarded guys like LaMarcus Aldridge. I’ve never been a swing guy. I’ve never taken the ball out of bounds."
"Keith Bogans was brought in here to play defense and hit corner threes. (Antonio) McDyess was brought in here to rebound and hit pick-and-pop jumpers. You can’t really say that my role on this team is the same role you’ve seen me do the last eight years and be successful."�

[Spurs da champs]

Overreact much? 8-0 doesn't turn into a loss in either of those series with RJ in place of Jax. It's not like Utah / LAC had a wing that was tough to guard. Where Jax did save us was in valuable minutes against Durant and his Game 6 threes.

I know cuz the Spurs won game 6! Jack has been nothing short of used toilet paper this season & his lack of minutes because of it & the emergence of Kawhi makes me wonder how many minutes he will get come playoff time.

[Embedded]

It's been said that the reason the 8th-seed Warriors beat the snot out of the 1st-seed Dull-ass Mavericks and ousted them from the playoffs in 2007 was because Dirk Nowitzki was scared of Stephen Jackson. I don't think anybody is afraid of Richard Jefferson.

[Spurs da champs]

It's been said that the reason the 8th-seed Warriors beat the snot out of the 1st-seed Dull-ass Mavericks and ousted them from the playoffs in 2007 was because Dirk Nowitzki was scared of Stephen Jackson. I don't think anybody is afraid of Richard Jefferson.

6 years ago??? Smh.

[timtonymanu]

Overreact much? 8-0 doesn't turn into a loss in either of those series with RJ in place of Jax. It's not like Utah / LAC had a wing that was tough to guard. Where Jax did save us was in valuable minutes against Durant and his Game 6 threes.

Not an overreaction.

I don't think the Spurs finish the 1st seed with RJ last year. So they had to go through DAL/LAL which was much tougher than UTA/LAC.

It's possible the Spurs get through DAL/LAL last year with RJ, but it wouldn't have been as easy compared to what really occurred.

[therealtruth]

Exactly, i don't i agree with that. The move to start Leonard was independent of RJ vs SJ, he just needed a year that's all. I really doubt that he would have trouble dislodging RJ from the starting spot. Or that pop would have continued to start RJ after Leonard had a year in the system.

So why did Pop continue to start Finley after he was done? Even his last year here he started a game at power forward. Pop sometimes has misguided loyalty to veterans. Same thing with McDyess.

[therealtruth]

It's been said that the reason the 8th-seed Warriors beat the snot out of the 1st-seed Dull-ass Mavericks and ousted them from the playoffs in 2007 was because Dirk Nowitzki was scared of Stephen Jackson. I don't think anybody is afraid of Richard Jefferson.

The reason is the Mavs didn't play to their strengths and tried adjusting to GS's game.

[szkorhetz]

I don't know about that. Jackson certainly isn't the only NBA player that coasted in the regular season, especially veterans. The "pulling a Horry" phrase didn't come out of thin air.

He also battled with a broken finger for most of the season. The least I'm going to do seeing last season's numbers is give him the benefit of the doubt.



I completely agree that RJ was not the reason we had 50 wins... and frankly if getting rid of him and moving Kawhi up the ladder meant we had to win only 48 games this season, so be it.

As far as the issue of Pop decisions and RJ's feelings is concerned, they're simply a single intertwined issue. Pop wouldn't demote RJ because RJ had a frail ego full of excuses, and he needed him at least in a backup role.

Let me know the next time Jack starts saying stuff like this:

"Anybody who watches the game with an intelligent eye can see I was doing a lot of things I had never done over the course of my career,"� he says. "I’ve never guarded guys like LaMarcus Aldridge. I’ve never been a swing guy. I’ve never taken the ball out of bounds."
"Keith Bogans was brought in here to play defense and hit corner threes. (Antonio) McDyess was brought in here to rebound and hit pick-and-pop jumpers. You can’t really say that my role on this team is the same role you’ve seen me do the last eight years and be successful."�
Actually, I believe that RJ could still compete. He was brought here and was asked to do REALLY different things that what he has ever done. With a good PG he could still put up great numbers in a good environment. Just imagine him playing for the Clippers, OKC, Denver or even Houston. Of course he is not a a 10M/year player, but he could still be useful.

[ElNono]

Actually, I believe that RJ could still compete. He was brought here and was asked to do REALLY different things that what he has ever done. With a good PG he could still put up great numbers in a good environment. Just imagine him playing for the Clippers, OKC, Denver or even Houston. Of course he is not a a 10M/year player, but he could still be useful.

Not sold on that. He's currently playing for a playoff team, and he can barely break 10mpg... either he's severely underused, or he really doesn't have much left in the tank.

[Kidd K]

I don't know about that. Jackson certainly isn't the only NBA player that coasted in the regular season, especially veterans. The "pulling a Horry" phrase didn't come out of thin air.

He also battled with a broken finger for most of the season. The least I'm going to do seeing last season's numbers is give him the benefit of the doubt.



I completely agree that RJ was not the reason we had 50 wins... and frankly if getting rid of him and moving Kawhi up the ladder meant we had to win only 48 games this season, so be it.

As far as the issue of Pop decisions and RJ's feelings is concerned, they're simply a single intertwined issue. Pop wouldn't demote RJ because RJ had a frail ego full of excuses, and he needed him at least in a backup role.

Let me know the next time Jack starts saying stuff like this:

"Anybody who watches the game with an intelligent eye can see I was doing a lot of things I had never done over the course of my career,"� he says. "I’ve never guarded guys like LaMarcus Aldridge. I’ve never been a swing guy. I’ve never taken the ball out of bounds."
"Keith Bogans was brought in here to play defense and hit corner threes. (Antonio) McDyess was brought in here to rebound and hit pick-and-pop jumpers. You can’t really say that my role on this team is the same role you’ve seen me do the last eight years and be successful."�

You can't really go on the last season, since 2 seasons ago (2011) Jackson was still actually good, yet really dropped off last year (2012), and has dropped off even more this year. I don't know why the dude is rapidly declining, but it's clearly happening for whatever reason. I'm not going to assume that he's suddenly going to be a lot better in the postseason when he hasn't shown it this year at all. He's played in about 50 games this year and really only had a few halfway decent games.

I was saying us only winning 50, 52, etc after signing RJ wasn't because of RJ dragging the team down. I was saying we only barely scratched 50 and didn't really compete for titles because of injuries (Tony, Manu, etc). I wasn't referring to the strike shortened season and us getting 50 that year out of 66 games. 48 wins instead of 50 last year wouldn't have mattered.

Pop's choices are his own. It's the coach's job to put the best people in the right spots, and deal with egos. RJ isn't some huge lockeroom personality that's preventing Pop from doing his job. He's just another dude. Outspoken, yes, but not some dude who's going to throw the lockeroom in disarray if he is told to come off the bench.