Prime Duncan vs Prime Lebron

[Fabbs]

Since Timmy Dunks passed the annual Real MVP award to LeBron beginning in 2008, has LeBron now become the equal of Dunks in his prime??

While I'm going to say "not yet", it's due only to longevity. As far as matching any of Duncans single seasons combined with playoff excellence, LeBron did it last year and is doing it this year. Duncan got robbed out of B2B Championships due to his condoning a retard coach and some rigged Mav reffing. LeBron hasn't had much of a better road what with Potatoe Head and DWades idiotic pre ejack celebration that was no small factor in lighting a fire under the all-but-done Mavs.

LeBron has long since passed 2nd tier stars such McGrady, Kobe, Parker, Pierce. But has he equaled the mega stars like Duncan, Snaq?

If LeBron shines again in a 2013 repeat it will surely put him in the same air as Duncs. Regardless of 2014 +.
What about right here and now? I'm not saying total career. I'm asking has/is prime LeBrons reg + playoff season equaled any of Duncans?

[SpurSwag]

Unfortunately most casual nba fans and some avid fans think Lebrons already more of a legend than Timmy. I'd be very surprised if Lebron didn't have a better career than Timmy when it's all said and done, but it's still td if bron were to hang them up IMO. Though I didn't see all of Duncan's prime, i have a good understanding of how dominant he was in every facet, but many don't.

[Juggity]

Currently Duncan is 4-0 in the finals, and Lebron is 1-3.

FMVPs is a similar story — Duncan 3, Lebron 1

I can see Lebron potentially passing Duncan some day down the road, but right now it's all speculation.

[Fabbs]

Currently Duncan is 4-0 in the finals, and Lebron is 1-3.

FMVPs is a similar story — Duncan 3, Lebron 1

I can see Lebron potentially passing Duncan some day down the road, but right now it's all speculation.
I know you mean well Juggity but for now lets keep the fake media out of it.
Kirby Bryant has a 6-24 WWE belt.

My q is did last years Bron season + playoff and thus far this year equal Prime Duncan? As SpurSwag mentioned, doing a bit of everything.

[Richie]

Surely Duncan is head and shoulders ahead in terms of defensive impact? Also, Duncan did more with less IMO. Granted Duncan has always been on a more talented team than Lebron had in Cleveland, he's never had the kind of talent Lebron has on the Heat.

Tough to compare the two players who play completely different games and have never had comparable talent around them.

[irishock]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQh4yNQ5WCIE_vhKHLAAcMHGP1ex_xvz 851jtups-n1R5FI6JnL

[Cry Havoc]

LeBron's career trajectory currently is such that he might only be behind one or two players when he retires, and has a shot at the GOAT. As good as Duncan is, we've never seen anyone in the NBA with LeBron's size/speed/agility/power.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Offensively, I think prime LeBron tops prime Duncan. Especially in today's league, where perimeter scorers dominate like low-post scorers used to dominate.

[hooperflash]

Timmy, the dude dominated like crazy in his prime!

[Proxy]

I agree with Havoc... as great as Timmy's career looks, Lebron's ceiling is higher. Their MVP count seems to be a good summary of their comparison, imo. Since the team is an important variable in championships, it works against Timmy in this particular comparison with Lebron having 3 MVPs already and more to come. He'll be in a pretty elite group with Kareem, Wilt, MJ, and Bill.

[Xevious]

LeBron's career trajectory currently is such that he might only be behind one or two players when he retires, and has a shot at the GOAT. As good as Duncan is, we've never seen anyone in the NBA with LeBron's size/speed/agility/power.

This.

[Blake]

Not sure LeBron has reached his peak potential.

[baseline bum]

My best guess is LeBron retires as the #2 player all-time. He'll never catch Jordan because of how he disappered in the 2011 Finals, but every other star ahead of him has had a pretty nasty series or two to stain his legacy like that (e.g., Magic giving away the 84 Finals, Bird getting swept in 83 by Milwaukee, etc.). LeBron's already top 10 all-time by age 28 and I don't see him slowing down any time soon.

[Trainwreck2100]

You wil never EVER EVER............EVER know how good Duncan would have been had he played in the shitty half of the league

[AussieFanKurt]

Lebron will overtake him or he should but Lebron will never mature and always be a little boy chimping around and doing stupid celebrations. Timmy has him beat in that area and still beat in nba area so far

[Arcadian]

He's certainly in the category of "mega stars", but he is still below Duncan and Shaq in the all time rankings.

And I don't think he'll surpass them. Big men >>> versatile guard/forwards.

As for "career trajectory," Tim's is way more impressive. He was a top-3 MVP candidate in his second season (and frankly, he should have won it). He was considered the best player in the world by the time the Spurs reached the Finals in 1999. So his career started much more impressively than how Lebron's started. And it's not just because his team was better. He was better individually.

[jesterbobman]

On a per game basis, LeBron is probably ahead. As a wing, he could play more minutes, so while they are very close in a per minute/per 100 possesions comparison(Worth roughly 10 points per 100 possesions in differential to their team) LeBron play 38-40 minutes, while Duncan played less.

LeBron is better offensively, But Duncan anchored some of the best defensive teams of all time. Really close. Duncan ahead in the early years of career, but part of that is straight out of high school compared to 4 years at College.

[dunkman]

At this point Duncan is ahead, but imo LeBron will retire as the GOAT. There is nothing he can't do well, except play center.

[KaiRMD1]

I don't know but I'l tell you one thing, it would be a hell of a match up. Same as Prime Lebron vs. Michael Jordan

[HarlemHeat37]

The question is prime vs. prime, not career accomplishments..

Essentially, it's 2003 Duncan vs. 2012 Lebron, which is a toss-up IMO..if Lebron's 2013 regular season dominance translates to a successful title run this year, this version of Lebron is probably the #2 peak of all-time behind '91 Jordan..we'll see if he can do it, though..

[SpurSwag]

It's scary how good Lebron is tbh I didn't think he could live up to the hype, but he's blown that hype out of the water. It's a shame he has stains on his résumé with losing twice in the finals, because I think if he had been 2/2 or something now he'd be the 2nd best of all time as is. Losing to the spurs in the finals sucks for him because people will look at it like a disappointment that he lost in the finals without realizing just hhow incredible it is that he made it that far with that team. Those cavs had no business playing in the finals

[coachmac87]

View it like this...imagine if Duncan was in his prime now..would LeBron be MVP every year!?? Helllll no. Duncan at 36 is still top 5 big in the league. You put LeBron in his prime in Duncan's era he'd still be a top player but not as nearly as dominant has he's viewed now( Kobe, Pierce, Tmac, Carter etc..) the league is so watered down now with true talent and stars these days...only way LBJ surpasses is if he gets 5 rings lol

[Lincoln]

No he got shit on in the 2011 finals, deferred to wade, and was a choking pussy even scoring only 8 points in one game. This is after destroying teams prior to the finals.

[HarlemHeat37]

The NBA had more top-tier individual talent in the previous era, but overall teams were worse IMO..

The 2002 Lakers, 2003 Spurs, 2004 Pistons and 2006 Heat were weak title teams, tbh..

[BlackSwordsMan]

Prime lebron is better than everyone even jordan

[irishock]

Prime lebron is better than everyone even jordan

upstairs quote?

[Ace]

Can't have this discussion now, Duncan is past his prime so we know what he did but LeBron is just getting started.

[TrainOfThought5]

My best guess is LeBron retires as the #2 player all-time. He'll never catch Jordan because of how he disappered in the 2011 Finals, but every other star ahead of him has had a pretty nasty series or two to stain his legacy like that (e.g., Magic giving away the 84 Finals, Bird getting swept in 83 by Milwaukee, etc.). LeBron's already top 10 all-time by age 28 and I don't see him slowing down any time soon.

wow. lets wait until he wins more than one ring to call him top 10 all time.

The San Antonio Heat Lebron love is real downstairs. sheesh.

[TrainOfThought5]

You wil never EVER EVER............EVER know how good Duncan would have been had he played in the shitty half of the league

truth. If duncan would have played in the east I think he would have had a finals appearance 10 out of 15 years.

[KL2]

Offensively, I think prime LeBron tops prime Duncan. Especially in today's league, where perimeter scorers dominate like low-post scorers used to dominate.

Prime Duncan had to play against guys like KG, Shaq, Nowitzki, Webber, J. O'Neal, Ben/Rasheed Wallace etc. can you imagine a prime Duncan going against guys like Griffin, Bosh, Porkins, Ibaka, Randolph, A. Jefferson, etc.? I'm getting a boner just thinking about it .

[baseline bum]

wow. lets wait until he wins more than one ring to call him top 10 all time.

The San Antonio Heat Lebron love is real downstairs. sheesh.

He's top 10 all-time because he has put up some monster seasons and dragged a ridiculously weak Cleveland supporting cast to 66 and 61 wins. The same piece of shit team that lost 25 straight the next season. I mean 66 wins out of Ilguaskas, Williams, and complete crap is unreal. When Kobe had a better supporting cast in Odom and Butler he didn't even make the playoffs, and he's widely regarded as a top 10 player. It's laughable that people would say James isn't an all-time great already with the seasons he has had his entire career. He has been the best player in the league since 2007, which is pretty damn impressive now that it's 2013. Jordan is the only player in the modern era of the league that you could ever say was the best player in the game for 7 straight seasons.

[TDMVPDPOY]

prime lebron lol padding stats against leastern teams in the playoffs

[Phillip]

its retarded to bash on Lebron for losing in the finals. one of the finals, his team had no business being in there, and he single-handedly willed them there (2007 finals), and pretty much every superstar ever has some series where they had a less than stellar performance (2011 finals, where the Mavs cared almost only about stopping Lebron and letting everyone else get theirs), but Lebron has pretty much always been nothing short of money in the playoffs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

im not impress with the heat runs last 2 years, gettin pushed in the first and 2nd round by fodder teams...

[Thread]

San Antonio Heat

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

[JamStone]

I take a prime LeBron over a prime Duncan all day, every day and wouldn't think twice about it. I think LeBron these past couple seasons has been so good that the better debate is prime LeBron and prime Jordan. I think he's been that dominant, that good. Career wise, it's still Duncan easily. But obviously as many have already suggested, LeBron still has a ways to go in his career. He probably has a good 5+ seasons of pure dominance and probably a handful more of really, really good seasons beyond that. Health willing and with at least one more NBA title (not unlikely, and probable that he ends up with 3 or 4 or 5 titles), LeBron will be in the discussion as the GOAT. From an individual talent and performance point of view, I already have a hard time not believing that LeBron of the last few years is the greatest player in the history of the game. It might be heresy, but yes even greater than Jordan.

Also, I never got why some people criticize players for losing in the NBA Finals. How is getting to the Finals and losing worse than not getting to the Finals at all? Hakeem is undefeated in the NBA Finals. Magic lost 4 times in the NBA Finals. Bird lost twice in the NBA Finals. But I don't think I've ever heard or read arguments that Hakeem is better than either, or how Magic and Bird losing multiple times in the NBA Finals somehow stain their resumes and legacies as great players. Even if the performance in the NBA Finals is not good, I still don't view that as worse than losing in the earlier rounds of the post season. Doesn't make sense to me. For example, with Jordan, I don't think what's so impressive is that Jordan is undefeated in the NBA Finals, but more so that once he got there, he went there every year afterwards in his prime except for that one partial season when he came back from his first retirement. A superstar who say over a 10 year period of his prime wins 2 titles and then gets to the Finals 3 more times but loses is more impressive than the guy who wins 2 titles but doesn't get to the Finals in any of the other 8 years, regardless of the performances when the first guy lost in the Finals the other 3 times.

[Jacob1983]

Duncan didn't leave the Spurs to go chase a championship because he was good enough to win championships as the main man and was always the leader. Lebron is a hipster immature douchebag.

[spurraider21]

I hate to say it, but LeBron gets the nod. LeBron for the past 2 seasons has been playing at a level the league has pretty much only seen during MJ's reign. Timmy's career is more accomplished, and by quite a bit, but as far as better player? I'd have to say Bron. Scary good to watch. However, basketball IS still a team game. I don't think if you were starting franchises, you could go wrong either way (Prime Tim vs Prime Bron). You'd have a beast either way (assuming health). But LeBron is something else

[Clipper Nation]

From an individual talent and performance point of view, I already have a hard time not believing that LeBron of the last few years is the greatest player in the history of the game. It might be heresy, but yes even greater than Jordan.
I agree with this.... we've never seen anything like the Kang in this league before, someone who can dominate at every position except center on both ends of the court.... not even Jordan could do that, tbh....

[scanry]

Lebron and it ain't even close. Duncan had like 7 great seasons (1999 - 2005), but Lebron is on another level tbh.

As i said earlier, if he rings this year he'll officially surpass Kobe, Shaq & Duncan on the all time list and he still has maybe 4 - 5 years of prime seasons. The scary thing about Lebron though is that he's still improving his game and that's what worries some fans (especially some Kobe fans who still think Kobe is the greatest player post the Jordan era).

[Thread]

if he rings

Jesus H. Christ.

You motherfuckers. I wished ya's never came and got me again.:rolleyes

[UNCLE-DREW]

Duncan didn't leave the Spurs to go chase a championship because he was good enough to win championships as the main man and was always the leader. Lebron is a hipster immature douchebag.

i'm pretty sure lebron won last year as the main man :lmao

If that fuckface of a Dan Gilbert ever gave lebron a supporting cast like Timmy had i'm pretty sure he still would be in cleveland now right now.
It's not like Dan Gilbert didn't had enough years to put together a good team, hell i would arque that bringing that 2007 team to the finals was more impressive as any of Timmy's rings.

[mercos]

Comparing wing players to front court players is always tricky. If I am picking an all time fantasy team, I'm almost always going with a big first. They simply play a more important role on the court. Guys like Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem feast on easy, high percentage buckets and can shut down the lane on the other end. Lebron is one of the few guys, like Jordan, who may go on a dominant run without a big. He is the exception, not the rule. I personally don't think the Heat could win multiple titles if they were playing against the early 2000s Spurs or Lakers.

For a good comparison, ask yourself who you think would win in a match up between the 2001 Spurs and the 2007 Cavaliers. If you take Duncan and Lebron off those teams, they are mediocre clubs that probably don't make the playoffs. I'd take the Spurs all day. Matched with even talent, I think a prime Duncan led team beats a prime Lebron team a majority of the time.

[baseline bum]

Comparing wing players to front court players is always tricky. If I am picking an all time fantasy team, I'm almost always going with a big first. They simply play a more important role on the court. Guys like Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem feast on easy, high percentage buckets and can shut down the lane on the other end. Lebron is one of the few guys, like Jordan, who may go on a dominant run without a big. He is the exception, not the rule. I personally don't think the Heat could win multiple titles if they were playing against the early 2000s Spurs or Lakers.

For a good comparison, ask yourself who you think would win in a match up between the 2001 Spurs and the 2007 Cavaliers. If you take Duncan and Lebron off those teams, they are mediocre clubs that probably don't make the playoffs. I'd take the Spurs all day. Matched with even talent, I think a prime Duncan led team beats a prime Lebron team a majority of the time.

I'd take the 2001 Spurs because while Duncan vs James would have been a wash, Robinson absolutely kills Ilgauskas in that matchup while Antonio Daniels/Derek Anderson can be hid on Sasha Pavlovic.

[UNCLE-DREW]

Comparing wing players to front court players is always tricky. If I am picking an all time fantasy team, I'm almost always going with a big first. They simply play a more important role on the court. Guys like Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem feast on easy, high percentage buckets and can shut down the lane on the other end. Lebron is one of the few guys, like Jordan, who may go on a dominant run without a big. He is the exception, not the rule. I personally don't think the Heat could win multiple titles if they were playing against the early 2000s Spurs or Lakers.

For a good comparison, ask yourself who you think would win in a match up between the 2001 Spurs and the 2007 Cavaliers. If you take Duncan and Lebron off those teams, they are mediocre clubs that probably don't make the playoffs. I'd take the Spurs all day. Matched with even talent, I think a prime Duncan led team beats a prime Lebron team a majority of the time.

So what you are saying is that lebron was in his prime in 2007 ? I get where you're coming from, But a prime Lebron is this year and last year. Careerwise TD may be ahead ( way ahead, rings etc ) but this Lebron is ahead, Also way ahead of any player in his prime this last decade.

[BatManu20]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQh4yNQ5WCIE_vhKHLAAcMHGP1ex_xvz 851jtups-n1R5FI6JnL

If Timmy's 6'11, Lebron's gotta be at least 6'9..

[mercos]

So what you are saying is that lebron was in his prime in 2007 ? I get where you're coming from, But a prime Lebron is this year and last year. Careerwise TD may be ahead ( way ahead, rings etc ) but this Lebron is ahead, Also way ahead of any player in his prime this last decade.

Technically speaking, Duncan wasn't in his prime in 2001 either. In the years I listed, both were in the league for roughly the same amount of time. I picked those two teams because they were two of the weaker contenders both players played on. The point I was trying to make is that I think a Duncan led team would be better than a Lebron led team if all the parts are equal. Both players play their positions about as well as possible, but as a big Duncan is simply more important.

[Arcadian]

^ I agree with mercos.

Also, Tim at his best was equally unguardable as Lebron is now. He could average 35 points per game if he wanted to. That, plus his ability to change the game defensively, plus his ability to quarterback an entire team from his position, makes him better in my opinion.

[Killakobe81]

He's top 10 all-time because he has put up some monster seasons and dragged a ridiculously weak Cleveland supporting cast to 66 and 61 wins. The same piece of shit team that lost 25 straight the next season. I mean 66 wins out of Ilguaskas, Williams, and complete crap is unreal. When Kobe had a better supporting cast in Odom and Butler he didn't even make the playoffs, and he's widely regarded as a top 10 player. It's laughable that people would say James isn't an all-time great already with the seasons he has had his entire career. He has been the best player in the league since 2007, which is pretty damn impressive now that it's 2013. Jordan is the only player in the modern era of the league that you could ever say was the best player in the game for 7 straight seasons.

I agree he is an all-time great but I dont gve much credence to that Finals run in a weak East. It's still a Finals trip and it matters but those that act like it gives Lebron bonus points to his ledger are full of it. I give him props for his performance against the Pistons THAT was impressive. Stilldoesnt change the fact he shit the bed twice in the Finals and needs to add another one this year and at least two more to pass Duncan and then maybe Kobe.

It's funny how some Spur fans are so quick to leapfrog duncan to place Lebron over Kobe and next to MJ ...give him time he may get there. No need to rush ...

[hater]

well I don't know. With Duncan you pretty much have a guaranteed HOFer for the next 15 seasons.

Lebron is working on his 2nd team and probably will move on 1 or 2 more times.

Eventhough Lebron is probably the superior player, I'd still take Duncan for the loyalty, consistency and great chemisty you will get the next 15 seasons. Duncan also takes you higher defensively from the getgo and IMO it's allways easier to build a team around a bigman.

[Phillip]

well I don't know. With Duncan you pretty much have a guaranteed HOFer for the next 15 seasons.

Lebron is working on his 2nd team and probably will move on 1 or 2 more times.

Eventhough Lebron is probably the superior player, I'd still take Duncan for the loyalty, consistency and great chemisty you will get the next 15 seasons. Duncan also takes you higher defensively from the getgo and IMO it's allways easier to build a team around a bigman.

:lol loyalty being a factor here

its easy to be loyal to a team that has you surrounded from your rookie season, with plenty of complimentary talent, plus you are winning championships

[hater]

of course it is dummy. At least if you are building a championship team

there can be ifs and buts but there are also facts. And fact is Duncan stayed through thick and thin with 1 franchise. Lebron didn't.

[Clipper Nation]

well I don't know. With Duncan you pretty much have a guaranteed HOFer for the next 15 seasons.

Lebron is working on his 2nd team and probably will move on 1 or 2 more times.
So? Shaq played for six different teams and it hasn't diminished his legacy....

[hater]

So? Shaq played for six different teams and it hasn't diminished his legacy....

I thought the question was which player you build around with.

If the question is about 1 game, I take Shaq first most dominant player ever, then Lebron cause he can play all positions and then Duncan.

[UNCLE-DREW]

:lmao about loyalty

The best player Dan Gilbert could come up with to support James in 7 years was ?

exactly, offcourse James would have stayed in cleveland if they had a team like Lakers or Spurs (kobe, td)

[UNCLE-DREW]

I thought the question was which player you build around with.

If the question is about 1 game, I take Shaq first most dominant player ever, then Lebron cause he can play all positions and then Duncan.

agreed,

A "serious" prime shaq is the only player i would take over lebron if i had to start to build a team.

[Phillip]

of course it is dummy. At least if you are building a championship team



If Cleveland built a championship team, then Lebron would still be in Cleveland.

He gave them 7 seasons, took them to heights they have never reached before, then left after they pretty much continued to give him nothing but overpaid, shit teammates.

Then to add more to it... where did Lebron go? To a team built to win championships.

Lebron's "loyalty" isn't about money or attention. It's about winning. And if you are building a winning team, then you have nothing to worry about.


there can be ifs and buts but there are also facts. And fact is Duncan stayed through thick and thin with 1 franchise. Lebron didn't.

Fact is, winning championships is the pinnacle of winning. If you win a championship, you are a winner of the highest regard.

Therefore, since Mark Madsen has 2 championships, and Barkley and Malone have none combined, Mark Madsen is a greater winner than both of them combined.

:cry great fuckin' logic :cry

[hater]

how was the Lebron-less Miami team built to win championships?? :rolleyes

you can make assumptions all you can but the question is KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW NOW who you'd take. and if I'm building a team from scratch I take the reliable HOF bigman with minimum maintenance. Yes Lebron might be the better player overall but he's also a high maintenance prima donna. You are free to disagree

[Brazil]

Lebron didn't reach his prime yet so prime Lebron concept doesn't exist.