Question, In your opinion has anyone ever been more undeserving of calls than hardon?

[Horse]

I thought they favored durant but I've never seen anything like this. I can't imagine jordan got any better ref treatment than hardon is getting.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

If you throw yourself right at a defender whenever you drive to the basket, you'd get those calls you're questioning. I hate him, but he knows how to get those whistles.

[Creation88]

Dirk got all the calls he wanted before he accomplished anything. he's the only one i can think of besides Harden.

[ffadicted]

hard on lol

[Drom John]

Michael Jordan.
It's not even close for whoever's #2.
Paul gets more favortism than Harden.

[Captivus]

You have to give him the 3 pointer, thats the solution, let him shoot it and see what happens.

[KL2]

Durant, Kobe, and prime Wade, also prime Dirk. All pretty much tied with him.

"Superstars" get "Superstar" calls (aka phantom calls) and people just accept it, even the announcers, it's pretty ridiculous if you think about it. Without these superstars the Nba would be nothing, so they must protect their players.

I thought market size mattered the most but in reality it's about Superstar vs Superstar, Kobe vs LBJ, Cp3 vs Nash, Griffin vs Howard etc. And the NBA must protect that superstar.

Stern made it quite clear it was about this, because when SA rested their star players he was furious and quickly took action, it was not about the Spurs vs the Heat but Duncan/Manu/Parker vs LBJ/Wade/Bosh.

[TrainOfThought5]

Michael Jordan.
It's not even close for whoever's #2.
Paul gets more favortism than Harden.

except Jordan fought through tougher defenses in a tougher league, with tougher rules. FOH

[Brazil]

I thought they favored durant but I've never seen anything like this. I can't imagine jordan got any better ref treatment than hardon is getting.

not really, Harden is one the player going the most at the rim, he is fourth or fifth doing that. Now Durant has more FTAs than him being 37th at going at the rim so answer is no and it's not even close

[Richie]

At least Harden gets them going to the rim and there is actually contact. I actually think more of his fouls are legit than someone like Durant. KD gets ridiculous calls on 20 foot jump shots, whereas when Harden is just excellent at drawing contact.

[Horse]

All of the calls are rediculous and yes he goes toward the basket but that doesnt mean he's being fouled. And my point is he's the least accomplished I've seen get this type of treatment. Especially on a rocket team going no where.

[mercos]

I don't care for Harden's style. The only reason it is viable is because refs give him the calls a majority of the time. Derrick Rose does the same thing. You shouldn't be able to attack defenders who have superior position, initiate contact, and go to the free throw line. Not sure why the league does this, watching a dude shoot 15+ free throws slows the game down and is not entertaining. Guys should have to develop actual finishing skills like Tony Parker, who is one of the best in the business at finishing in traffic.

[RD2191]

imagine if that bum was still with OKC? LOL, talk about screwed

[spurspokesman]

hard on lol

beat me too it

[Horse]

The thing is he's not in their league atleast not yet.

[Rogbok]

Truthfully it does not bother me that much. What bothers me is the inconsistency of the calls. Call it the same on both ends and for the entire game and I will be satisfied.

[benstanfield]

I'm not sure it's that he gets unfair treatment by the refs. I think Hardon's game is just more about drawing fouls than any superstar we've seen before.

[Pop]

I liked Ben Harden better than Hardon but that's just me.

[hater]

Manu Ginobili

[Axe Murderer]

All of the calls are rediculous and yes he goes toward the basket but that doesnt mean he's being fouled. And my point is he's the least accomplished I've seen get this type of treatment. Especially on a rocket team going no where.

sup Horse?

[TheGoldStandard]

Harden is where he is because of his OKC run, the OKC trio developed a relationship of going to the line and it's carried over so he'll continue to get the calls unless he runs into Lebron or Wade because they have superior defense and never foul which is another superstar treatment.

[benstanfield]

Manu Ginobili

What's Manu's career high FTA per game? What is Harden's this year?

[ElNono]

What's Manu's career high FTA per game? What is Harden's this year?

FYI


Hater is one of the worst posters on ST, tbh, FYI..

[hater]

ball moves better when manu is running the PG spot anyways...

:lmao

[ElNono]

hard to predict exact games, but I did predict Spurs were gona go close to 50% without parker

:lmao

[hater]

I predicted us going 6-3 in the stretch Chi-Hou without a 100% Parker.

guess what our record ended up being in that stretch :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

You also spent almost an entire year saying the Heat would never win with Lebron as the #1 option and that they were the most overrated team of all-time..

Then, once you noticed they were going to win and dominate the NBA, you changed your shtick and began picking them to win the title:lol..

I obviously remember this because I'm a Lebron groupie and you and I argued frequently at the time..

I won't bump your posts, tbh, you can go delete them if you want..

[hater]

You also spent almost an entire year saying the Heat would never win with Lebron as the #1 option and that they were the most overrated team of all-time..

Sure I hated on Lebronze in the past. And was enjoyin his unclutchness and the Heatanic in seasons past. Sure, guilty as charged. But the tune had to change when they signed a top 5 perimeter defender and Horry-Posey like playoff clutchness and one of the best shooters in history and also a playoff clutch legend. Not to mention Lebron might get over the unclutchness factor (we'll see in this playoffs) although he doesn't need to, he has 3 ubber clutch guys to carry him if need be now.

and tbh my hate is not as bad as you, a spursfan hatin on bearded Manu Ginobili v2.0 because his game is not attractive enough :lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

Sure I hated on Lebronze in the past. And was enjoyin his unclutchness and the Heatanic in seasons past. Sure, guilty as charged. But the tune had to change when they signed a top 5 perimeter defender and Horry-Posey like playoff clutchness and one of the best shooters in history and also a playoff clutch legend. Not to mention Lebron might get over the unclutchness factor (we'll see in this playoffs) although he doesn't need to, he has 3 ubber clutch guys to carry him if need be now.

and tbh my hate is not as bad as you, a spursfan hatin on bearded Manu Ginobili v2.0 because his game is not attractive enough :lmao

Was Lebron the number 1 option last year?..

[spurraider21]

why are you guys going at hater? its obvious he's just trolling. nobody is actually that moronic with their takes. you're all falling for his bait

[hater]

Was Lebron the number 1 option last year?..

sure he was.

Is Harden not Manu Ginobili reincarnated?

[Obstructed_View]

Michael Jordan.
It's not even close for whoever's #2.
Paul gets more favortism than Harden.

Jordan probably got fouled more than any player not named Wilt or Shaq. If you're going to whine about Jordan, whine about the rules changes that helped his team dominate, not the refs, and not Jordan himself, who spent a lot of time attacking the rim and drawing contact.

[Slippy]

The call that irks me the most is when harden goes for a shot in mid-air sways his body or flings his legs in the direction of the defender thus creating the contact. Refs have to see through that but it's easier said than done. All it takes is a different angle to think otherwise.

Manu in his heyday would draw contact. Any opening through defense he would find it using change of pace and direction to get to it. Defenders were always a step or adjusment too late in fouling.

[Horse]

sup Horse?

What's happening

[Horse]

sure he was.

Is Harden not Manu Ginobili reincarnated?

Manu causes real contact, not phantom contact. He gets beat up. Yeah he's slick and tricky but he takes a beating and earns his fouls.

[Gagnrath]

I would argue that in Harden we are seeing a lot of what a young Ginobili would have been like with todays touch fouling. In most cases there is some contact with Harden getting a call though how much of it is caused or exaggerated by him is questionable. The NBA rulebook as currently designed is set to give the driving wing player a huge advantage over the defense. Yes Harden to some extent takes advantage of this by driving with the intention of getting fouls over making shots, but you can't expect a player not to take the advantages given them.

[hater]

Manu causes real contact, not phantom contact.

:lmao

[SpurPadre]

I'll switch this up a little and say Shaq was the most undeserving of non-calls than any player I've ever seen. The guy should've been called for 3 seconds every time on offense yet got the benefit of the doubt. I know people love to say he got fouled hard and sometimes they weren't called because of his huge physical presence which somehow made it look like ticky tack fouls the referee would just not call, but it's bullshit. When you get the freedom to live in the paint for the duration of the whole shot clock, you at least have to give the defender somewhat of a fighting chance to keep the fat fuck from getting an easy look at the basket. He got a way with travelling a lot, too. Fuck Shaq, the basketball player but I don't mind Shaq, the TNT guy.

[hater]

everyone gets away with traveling. To be fair to Shaq, the NBA changed the rules to try to contain shaq and let little midgets rule the court(and soft bigmen like Dirk and Bosh). Eventually NBA opened up all zone defense which made it harder for all bigmen to operate and thus giving birth to this midget gay ass shit NBA we live in now. yes even Duncan got affected, but Shaq was the one who used to take advantage of the paint more than anyone.

[benstanfield]

why are you guys going at hater? its obvious he's just trolling. nobody is actually that moronic with their takes. you're all falling for his bait

Because any time any Spurs fan complains about flops or guys who get retarded amount of free throws, the knee-jerk moronic group response is "MANU FLOPPED A BUNCH FIVE YEARS AGO HERP HERP HERP HERP" when in actuality Manu's highest FTA/game is a mundane 6.0, and his admitted flops were intensely magnified by his status as a white foreign player.

[hater]

Step 1 in Laker Homer Anonymous 12 steps: Acknowledge Kobe is a selfish chuker

Step 1 in spurs Homer Anonymous 12 steps: Acknowledge Manu is a flopper

[kobyz]

Harden is very easy to stop once you learned him, those defenders are stupied and soft minded for letting him to abuse them like that with all the fouls calls and point in the paint he produce.

[The Batman]

:lol pathetic ass GNSF

[Obstructed_View]

Step 1 in Laker Homer Anonymous 12 steps: Acknowledge Kobe is a selfish chuker

Step 1 in spurs Homer Anonymous 12 steps: Acknowledge Manu is a flopper

IF flop = selling a call by exaggerating legitimate contact THEN Manu = Flopper.

IF flop = tricking refs into blowing whistle by reacting to nonexistent or minimal contact THEN Robert Horry(Flopper) OR Jacque Vaughn(Flopper) > Manu(Flopper).

[The Batman]

IF flop = selling a call by exaggerating legitimate contact THEN Manu = Flopper.

IF flop = tricking refs into blowing whistle by reacting to nonexistent or minimal contact THEN Robert Horry(Flopper) OR Jacque Vaughn(Flopper) > Manu(Flopper).

:rollin
fEef1T_lqwA

[Obstructed_View]

:rollin
fEef1T_lqwA

Fail. Bonzi hit a guy who's 30 pounds lighter in the chin with his shoulder, which the replay clearly shows. That Clyde Drexler thinks it's a bad call isn't a surprise, no matter how obvious the call is.

[Manudona]

The fault resides on the average american fan who thinks that a star deserves different (better) treatment than a regular player who in turn deserves better treatment than a scrub, so for years they cheer the "stars" and they accept the bullshit calls they get just for they are "stars"... It would be a much better game if a foul is a foul no matter who is involved, a travel is a travel no matter who traveled etc this makes average or good players "stars" (not all, of course). The other thing I usually see arguing is "that the calls were even", what a stupid argument is that one too...

[hater]

The fault resides on the average american fan who thinks that a star deserves different (better) treatment than a regular player who in turn deserves better treatment than a scrub, so for years they cheer the "stars" and they accept the bullshit calls they get just for they are "stars"... It would be a much better game if a foul is a foul no matter who is involved, a travel is a travel no matter who traveled etc this makes average or good players "stars" (not all, of course). The other thing I usually see arguing is "that the calls were even", what a stupid argument is that one too...

Let me guess. You don't think Messi gets special treatment from FIFA refs?

[TheGoldStandard]

The thing is most players can ball to be in the NBA if there was no special treatment then we'd have a lot of games where the scores would be 60 to 55 because everything would be a foul. There is contact happening on the court in every possession.

[Manudona]

Let me guess. You don't think Messi gets special treatment from FIFA refs?

No.

[hater]

No.

thought so

Another delusional argentine

[Manudona]

thought so

Another delusional argentine

Well, in this case I am sorry to bring you bad news, but you are the delusional here. If you really think that the stars in football get the same treatment than the stars in the NBA, you are utterly gone.

[hater]

I really dont see much difference between treatment of durant vs. Messi.

Anyone breathes on messi and its a foul

[pgardn]

He is a hell of a player.


He does a whole bunch of things exactly like a younger Manu. Seriously watch his effortless bullet passes to the wings off penetration. Absolutely gifted just like Manu. Harden is playing the refs trying to win because he knows exactly where the defender is and how off balance the opponent is, even with no contact and the opposition behind him.

Amazing stuff against us. Clearly a better PG than Westbrook. I love/hate him.

[Danny.Zhu]

Durant, Kobe, and prime Wade, also prime Dirk. All pretty much tied with him.

Prime Kobe imho. TOSB Kobe doesn't get that much calls these days tbh.

[wildbill2u]

I'm in Houston this week and listening to sports radio which has some pretty knowledgeable and well-known sportscasters. Some idiot called in and complained that the Rockets almost lost the game because the refs were calling all the fouls for SA. They noted that our Big 3 combined took fewer FTs than Harden.

After demolishing that guy's argument, the guys got into the old argument about the NBA favoring big market teams over small market teams. Surprisingly, they all agreed that there is now and always has been a bias in favor of big market teams like Houston vs. small market teams like SA. They virtually attributed the disparity in FTs to this top down bias which they believe starts with Stern and the TV execs.

[Horse]

:lmao

You laugh but even you must admit Manu plays no where near the pussy-ball hardon does.

[Horse]

I'll switch this up a little and say Shaq was the most undeserving of non-calls than any player I've ever seen. The guy should've been called for 3 seconds every time on offense yet got the benefit of the doubt. I know people love to say he got fouled hard and sometimes they weren't called because of his huge physical presence which somehow made it look like ticky tack fouls the referee would just not call, but it's bullshit. When you get the freedom to live in the paint for the duration of the whole shot clock, you at least have to give the defender somewhat of a fighting chance to keep the fat fuck from getting an easy look at the basket. He got a way with travelling a lot, too. Fuck Shaq, the basketball player but I don't mind Shaq, the TNT guy.

I'm gonna have to agree, that fatfuck got away with murder. And the reason is he was marketable and with jordan toward the end of his career they needed someone the kids would love cause he dunked so much.

[Horse]

He is a hell of a player.


He does a whole bunch of things exactly like a younger Manu. Seriously watch his effortless bullet passes to the wings off penetration. Absolutely gifted just like Manu. Harden is playing the refs trying to win because he knows exactly where the defender is and how off balance the opponent is, even with no contact and the opposition behind him.

Amazing stuff against us. Clearly a better PG than Westbrook. I love/hate him.
He is a hell of a player, but he plays like such a pussy and doesnt have to. It's like he's not even trying to score, just to get fouled.

[hater]

He is a hell of a player.


He does a whole bunch of things exactly like a younger Manu. Seriously watch his effortless bullet passes to the wings off penetration. Absolutely gifted just like Manu. Harden is playing the refs trying to win because he knows exactly where the defender is and how off balance the opponent is, even with no contact and the opposition behind him.

Amazing stuff against us. Clearly a better PG than Westbrook. I love/hate him.

:tu

Harden/Durant would have been a combo for the ages. I'm not sure of the inner workings on that Harden trade but IMO I'd have let Westbrook leave before I let Harden go.

[wildbill2u]

The call that irks me the most is when harden goes for a shot in mid-air sways his body or flings his legs in the direction of the defender thus creating the contact. Refs have to see through that but it's easier said than done. All it takes is a different angle to think otherwise..

Reggie Miller began that trick back in the day. He's discussed it before on that NBA-TV show which features a panel of veterans. Great series by the way.

[Obstructed_View]

Reggie Miller began that trick back in the day. He's discussed it before on that NBA-TV show which features a panel of veterans. Great series by the way.

Difference is, the NBA changed the rules. Kicking out your leg or suddenly changing direction into the defender to draw contact is theoretically not supposed to result in a foul call on the defender.

[Fabbs]

Undeserving calls?
One area where Kirby is def the GOAT.

[howbouthemspurs]

Every time Hard On fell down it was a foul! If he fell and you were within breathing distance.... FOUL!